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Cubbiesuck13
02-24-2002, 12:30 AM
I do not like the new comiskey, i wish they would have built it with some character. Now they finally have heard my plea, changes to the stadium will be in place for opening day at home. I like the new batters eye screen. I think it a big improvement on the bland look of the park. I hope they dont stop the changes. I wish it would have all been the same green as the old park. I wish it were around now. anyway i was wondering about other peoples opinion.
:shower

doublem23
02-24-2002, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
i was wondering about other peoples opinion.

I think the bigger problem is the fact that the Sox haven't won a World Series in 85 years.

Cubbiesuck13
02-24-2002, 12:43 AM
I think the bigger problem is the fact that the Sox haven't won a World Series in 85 years.



Well I think they are doing a better job of working on that than they are working on Comiskey, I dont think the streak will last much longer...

doublem23
02-24-2002, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
Well I think they are doing a better job of working on that than they are working on Comiskey, I dont think the streak will last much longer...

Hit the http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/quote.gif button and your posts can be as cool as mine.

But my original point is that a baseball stadium is a baseball stadium, and I personally don't really give a rat's ass what it looks like as long as the Sox are winning.... But I do want green seats! :D:

Cubbiesuck13
02-24-2002, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


Hit the http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/images/quote.gif button and your posts can be as cool as mine.

But my original point is that a baseball stadium is a baseball stadium, and I personally don't really give a rat's ass what it looks like as long as the Sox are winning.... But I do want green seats! :D:

Hey I am cool now! this is what it feels like, thanks man. I realize it is a baseball stadium and as long as the Sox play there i will go, but there is a fact that screams if you have an interesting place to play(wrigley) people will go for the hell of it, this brings in money. I would rathere have a good team than a good park so dont confuse my message please.

doublem23
02-24-2002, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13
I would rathere have a good team than a good park so dont confuse my message please.

Oh, I didn't think that's what you were saying, but I think way too many people put way too much stock in the way the stadium looks... AKA Cub fans...

Oh well, I'm also not against renovating the stadium, though, so don't get me wrong...

Go Sox! :D:

Cubbiesuck13
02-24-2002, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


I think way too many people put way too much stock in the way the stadium looks... AKA Cub fans...


Go Sox! :D:


If Wrigley was ever gone, i dont know if they would sell out so easily, now its a cool thing to do, catch a game at Wrigley and have a few :gulp:

The Cubune's influence would still be great and no doubt they would still show up no matter if they liked baseball or not, but the whole point to this is the majority of people who go to Wrigley, I would guess, is the out-of-towners who want to go see the site. Cubfans would show up no matter the quality of park, they show up no matter the quality of team in the park.

CubKilla
02-24-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by doublem23


Oh, I didn't think that's what you were saying, but I think way too many people put way too much stock in the way the stadium looks... AKA Cub fans...

Oh well, I'm also not against renovating the stadium, though, so don't get me wrong...

Go Sox! :D:

You forgot about :moron and :giangreco

Daver
02-24-2002, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by CubsF'nBlow


You forgot about :moron and :giangreco

You forgot :fluffy

PaleHoseGeorge
02-24-2002, 02:16 PM
Personally, I don't see anything wrong about discussing ways to make Comiskey Park nicer. If the original design hadn't been such a bust (compared to all the other ballparks built in the 90's), I would agree the topic wasn't relevant. However, the fact the Sox have been making improvements the last few years (starting with the Bullpen Bar and Veeck showerhead in 1997-98) tells me that their previous stonewalling of the issue failed to fix problems even THEY KNOW are hurting attendance.

In essence, the Sox are saying, "Mea culpa," to the fans, taxpayers, and media.

:reinsy
"Not that I would ever have the grace or public relations skills to actually state this publicly. Stonewalling the issue was my idea, and it took years for anyone to convince me it wasn't working. I'm completely clueless how to build a fan base for my team."

:ohno
"Tell us something we don't know."

KVinc
02-24-2002, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13



If Wrigley was ever gone, i dont know if they would sell out so easily, now its a cool thing to do, catch a game at Wrigley and have a few :gulp:

The Cubune's influence would still be great and no doubt they would still show up no matter if they liked baseball or not, but the whole point to this is the majority of people who go to Wrigley, I would guess, is the out-of-towners who want to go see the site. Cubfans would show up no matter the quality of park, they show up no matter the quality of team in the park.




Cubs fans at least know when to fill the ballpark if the team is winning which umm last time i checked, sox fans (in 2000) failed to do.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-24-2002, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by KVinc
Cubs fans alow know when to fill the ballpark if the team is winning which umm last time i checked, sox fans (in 2000) failed to do.

Who you kidding, K? Flubs fans fill that piss hole even when they're in last place.

The ballpark is a national shrine for reasons only the ignorant can possibly understand. You know how many baseball championships Wrigley Field has hosted, K? ZERO. *****!

If our owner wasn't receiving a disincentive in his sweetheart lease arrangement with the state, perhaps the White Sox would be more aggressive about attracting fans. If the front office wasn't such a desert for for people with a clue how to manage public relations, the team might not be quite so well hated by legions of fans they might otherwise attract.

:reinsy
"Public relations? You mean calling Sox fans 'crazy' and 'wrong' hurts attendance? These people owe me their last dollar!"

RedPinStripes
02-24-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Who you kidding, K? Flubs fans fill that piss hole even when they're in last place.

The ballpark is a national shrine for reasons only the ignorant can possibly understand. You know how many baseball championships Wrigley Field has hosted, K? ZERO. *****!

If our owner wasn't receiving a disincentive in his sweetheart lease arrangement with the state, perhaps the White Sox would be more aggressive about attracting fans. If the front office wasn't such a desert for for people with a clue how to manage public relations, the team might not be quite so well hated by legions of fans they might otherwise attract.

:reinsy
"Public relations? You mean calling Sox fans 'crazy' and 'wrong' hurts attendance? These people owe me their last dollar!"

Congratulations. Yours might be the dumbest post of the month.

I'd love to see you and JR in a 1 on 1 debate. I think you 'd make him cry. I'll drink to that. :gulp:

guillen4life13
02-24-2002, 08:16 PM
*****!!! if i were 21, i could :gulp: to that.

as if teenagers follow those rules, though.

bradp
02-24-2002, 09:20 PM
I'm glad they're finally doing something with the new park. However, I finally discovered the plans for Armour Field on the web, and I think I'm going to cry.

But there's one thing that will make the New Comiskey look great: A World Series 2002 Champions pennant.

Brad

Daver
02-24-2002, 09:50 PM
Welcome aboard Brad.I think we all want to see that.

Fox 2 6 21
02-24-2002, 11:20 PM
I agree with Brad on that one.....but again, I still dream of Ol' Sox Park....:gulp:...so there's two Homes for the Sox to me ..... Ol' Sox Park and the 39th St Grounds.....and I ben making it a point to never think of JR's other choice.....I'm out of here be4 I type something to get me banned from the board.
- Fox....:gulp:

OfficerKarkovice
02-24-2002, 11:29 PM
Welcome Brad...I guess that makes 2 Brad's on the board now in me and you buddy. :gulp:

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 11:57 AM
I think the issue that K brought up is not " stupid ".

No matter what anyone says, Comiskey was not even a third full during the late summer/fall stretch of games during the division run in 2000!

I don't care what the reasoning is, the fact is Sox fans didn't back the team in 2000. That is truly sad.

I know there are several season ticket holders here who support their team on a regular basis-I am one as well. I also know that there are guys/gals on here from out of state who support the team.

However the South Side has an awful lot of lazy bastards who refuse to go to Comiskey because of Reinsdorf, blue seats, or e\whatever.

George, I don't think it's fair to call a post stupid because the truth hurts.

Old Comiskey was never even half full either for the most part, and that was with a thriving blue collar workfaorce right by the park!

After being embarrased in 2000 by the lack of interest, I will not make fun of Cub Fans who are fair weather-at least they show SOME form of interest.

As for Reinsdorf, I think he has his good points and his bad points. THE SOX NEVER DREW FANS EXCEPT FOR WINNING YEARS. Even then, attendance was still below respectable.

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 12:04 PM
George,

Did the Sox ever draw in Old Comiskey? Don't think so.

I am a season ticket holder and no matter what excuse you or any Sox fan uses it's not Reinsdorf's fault fans don't show up at the park.

I was embarrased in 2000 by the empty stadium during a pennant run. I would imagine the players were too.

Why criticise Cub fans because they go to the park? I go every year to Comiskey because I love the Sox, sunshine, hoping for a win, and cold beer.

Please don't use the Reinsdorf, blue seats, The strike excuses anymore.

The fact is the Sox have great fans who go to the park and the ones right here at WSI>

The South Side guys in the bars who refuse to go to one game a year, are worse than Cub Fans.

Cubbiesuck13
02-25-2002, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
George,

Did the Sox ever draw in Old Comiskey? Don't think so.

I am a season ticket holder and no matter what excuse you or any Sox fan uses it's not Reinsdorf's fault fans don't show up at the park.

I was embarrased in 2000 by the empty stadium during a pennant run. I would imagine the players were too.

Why criticise Cub fans because they go to the park? I go every year to Comiskey because I love the Sox, sunshine, hoping for a win, and cold beer.

Please don't use the Reinsdorf, blue seats, The strike excuses anymore.

The fact is the Sox have great fans who go to the park and the ones right here at WSI>

The South Side guys in the bars who refuse to go to one game a year, are worse than Cub Fans.


Sox fans who dont show up and cub fans who dont know anything about baseball or the team, or the score for that matter are totally differetn,but both pretty rotten. I have to say tho, even if they dont show up, at least they know a little about baseball.

RedPinStripes
02-25-2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Cubbiesuck13



Sox fans who dont show up and cub fans who dont know anything about baseball or the team, or the score for that matter are totally differetn,but both pretty rotten. I have to say tho, even if they dont show up, at least they know a little about baseball.


:reinsy
"You got it bud. I say that every year. "

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 12:22 PM
Let me get this straight:

You feel it's better to not have fans who could care less at the game.

The guys at the Tavern who claim to be Huge Sox fans are better because they know the players' names?

Don't you want to win? Chicago is a tourist city, if you want a higher payroll, we need tourism at that park.

Cheryl
02-25-2002, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by bradp
I'm glad they're finally doing something with the new park. However, I finally discovered the plans for Armour Field on the web, and I think I'm going to cry.

But there's one thing that will make the New Comiskey look great: A World Series 2002 Champions pennant.

Brad

Welcome Brad! Green seats or blue?

Cubbiesuck13
02-25-2002, 12:27 PM
I am not saying that not showing up is a great thing, in fact it pisses me off that people who can go, dont. If i still lived in Chicago I would go everyday i could. I think part of the fact there are not a lot of fans showing up is the ownership. JR is a ****in moron who needs badly to be shot and someone with half a brain and half a heart for the sox needs to take over.

Its the lesser of two evils to me. I dont know what i would do if i was in a bar with sox fans who were shootin off their mouth about the team but really had no clue what they were saying. Most cub fans are like that. with most sox fans, at least you know they are rooting for them.

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 12:33 PM
Reinsdorf has shown time and time again that he wants to win.

It's hard to go for it when you have no one showing up at the park.

There is not an owner in the world who could fix that problem. Maybe one of these young billionaires who could care less he is losing money.

The argument is still this:

Would you rather have an empty seat at the park because the knowledgable fan doesn't like the blue seats or would you welcome tourist fans who want to have fun?

If you prefer the knowledgable fan who doesn't support their team, you are too stubborn to realize we need those fans to win consistantly! :angry: :angry:

PaleHoseGeorge
02-25-2002, 12:35 PM
Actually, I edited out that comment less than 15 minutes after I wrote my original post. Go back and check Post #12 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=64219#post64219) of this thread for yourself. Anything you've seen is strictly from RedPinStripes quoting my post five minutes after my original, unedited post. If I took back the comment nearly a full-day ago, are you still pissed at me, Hooter?

OTOH, if you take offense to my position that Sox Fans aren't to blame for the White Sox failing to draw more customers, take your best shot, Hooter. It's your move.

I'm endlessly fascinated by suggestions that Cubs fans are true fans for piling into Wrigley Field regardless of how poorly the team plays. If that's the standard you expect Sox Fans to be measured against, you're going to get laughed right out of this forum. Fair warning.

irish rover
02-25-2002, 12:40 PM
I wouldn't really say that everyone that goes to Wrigley is a Cub fan nor would I say that everyone that doesn't show up to Comiskey is a sox fan, the sox are missing the casual fans and tourists, So I will continue to make fun of cub fans especially those that are fans becasue that is the team that sammy plays on and that is the team who plays at wrigley

Cheryl
02-25-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by irish rover
I wouldn't really say that everyone that goes to Wrigley is a Cub fan nor would I say that everyone that doesn't show up to Comiskey is a sox fan, the sox are missing the casual fans and tourists, So I will continue to make fun of cub fans especially those that are fans becasue that is the team that sammy plays on and that is the team who plays at wrigley

The people I know who are real Cub fans (grew up with them, went to Wrigley before it was trendy, know what ERA stands for) hardly ever go to the Urinal anymore. They can't stand that it's full of drunken frat boys who know nothing about baseball, who never know if the Cubs won or lost that day, and who go out and piss on the lawns in the neighborhood after the game.

irish rover
02-25-2002, 12:52 PM
I know some who wish they had a chance to get good seats for games like we do

Cheryl
02-25-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by irish rover
I know some who wish they had a chance to get good seats for games like we do

I don't know what the big deal is about attendance anyway. I love being able to walk up to the booth, buy a cheap seat and sit anywhere I want. I like not having to stand in line to get a beer and a dog. It's not like Jerry is losing money because of the sea of blue seats--it just means he doesn't have to pay rent again. He's making plenty off of us in other ways, and could afford that WS ring any time he wants one.

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 01:19 PM
George,

I am not pissed at you at all- I don't want you to get the wrong idea.

I partly agree that it is not entirely the Sox' fans fault for lack of attendance.

Back in the day of H. Washington, the Mayor suggested a Park for the Bears and White Sox to share right in the Grant Park/Old Railway area. The Bears scoffed at the idea because at the time (mid-late eighties) they were arguable the most popular team in sports! They wanted their own stadium. Since then The City of Chicago has done nothing to help the White Sox. The State has done nothing to help the White Sox.

The Sox could not draw before Reinsdorf was involved- as a matter of fact I would imagine he has the best attendence figures out of all of the past owners. Nothing to be prowd of.

I hate the fact that we can't draw fans to a pretty nice ballpark with a great young team.

I also hate that some people on this board say something like at least our fans know our team, bla, blah , blah.

There is no doubt that the White Sox fan is more spirited, knowledgable, serious, and dedicated to his/her team. WE know this- there is no dispute.

We need casual, tourist fans at the ballpark to compete with the big, heck the medium boys.

As for the knowledgable fan at the bar who doesn't support the Sox, I would be willing to bet they jump on bandwagons all the time. If they cared enough, they would support the team regardless of blue seats.

bjmarte
02-25-2002, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
George,

I am not pissed at you at all- I don't want you to get the wrong idea.

I partly agree that it is not entirely the Sox' fans fault for lack of attendance.

Back in the day of H. Washington, the Mayor suggested a Park for the Bears and White Sox to share right in the Grant Park/Old Railway area. The Bears scoffed at the idea because at the time (mid-late eighties) they were arguable the most popular team in sports! They wanted their own stadium. Since then The City of Chicago has done nothing to help the White Sox. The State has done nothing to help the White Sox.

The Sox could not draw before Reinsdorf was involved- as a matter of fact I would imagine he has the best attendence figures out of all of the past owners. Nothing to be prowd of.

I hate the fact that we can't draw fans to a pretty nice ballpark with a great young team.

I also hate that some people on this board say something like at least our fans know our team, bla, blah , blah.

There is no doubt that the White Sox fan is more spirited, knowledgable, serious, and dedicated to his/her team. WE know this- there is no dispute.

We need casual, tourist fans at the ballpark to compete with the big, heck the medium boys.

As for the knowledgable fan at the bar who doesn't support the Sox, I would be willing to bet they jump on bandwagons all the time. If they cared enough, they would support the team regardless of blue seats.

Hooter, I agree with you and PHG each about half. I've said it before and I will say it again; I am not going to pay to go sit in a ballpark where the management refuses to put on a decent team. Having said that, that is not the case with the current White Sox. People who call themselves White Sox fans and don't make it out to the park to support the current team of players should be ashamed of themselves.

Cheryl
02-25-2002, 01:41 PM
You know what, everyone has a right to spend their money on whatever they entertainment they want to. I go to 20-30 games a year. That's what I want to spend mine on. If someone wants to call themselves a Sox fan and they sit in Jimbo's to watch all the games, well then fine. Doesn't bother me at all.

If someone else wants to get stinking over on the Dark Side then have a few more at High Tops and not even know what team the Cubs played that day, that's fine too as long as long as we all know that person is a witless poltroon.

FarWestChicago
02-25-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
that's fine too as long as long as we all know that person is a witless poltroon. I believe that may be the first time the word "poltroon" has been used on the boards. :smile:

RedPinStripes
02-25-2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Anything you've seen is strictly from RedPinStripes quoting my post five minutes after my original, unedited post. If I took back the comment nearly a full-day ago, are you still pissed at me, Hooter?



I love getting the contravercy going. :smile:

RedPinStripes
02-25-2002, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


I don't know what the big deal is about attendance anyway. I love being able to walk up to the booth, buy a cheap seat and sit anywhere I want. I like not having to stand in line to get a beer and a dog. It's not like Jerry is losing money because of the sea of blue seats--it just means he doesn't have to pay rent again. He's making plenty off of us in other ways, and could afford that WS ring any time he wants one.
:reinsy
Well I don't like it! I lose money when you get the free upgrade."

PaleHoseGeorge
02-25-2002, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
I believe that may be the first time the word "poltroon" has been used on the boards. :smile:

You're right. It's the early favorite to win Post of the Week honors, too!

:)

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 02:01 PM
Cheryl,

I don't want to sound mean but what is the point to your reply? That Cub fans drink a lot? Who cares already.

If nobody wanted to support the team we wouldn't HAVE a team!

Sure everybody can spend their dough on whatever they please- but if we want to have a baseball team on the South Side it's about time some people actually supported it.

Please, lay off the drnuken Cub fan messages- who cares what they do anyway.

Let's try and fix our own problems.

RedPinStripes
02-25-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
Cheryl,

I don't want to sound mean but what is the point to your reply? That Cub fans drink a lot? Who cares already.

If nobody wanted to support the team we wouldn't HAVE a team!

Sure everybody can spend their dough on whatever they please- but if we want to have a baseball team on the South Side it's about time some people actually supported it.

Please, lay off the drnuken Cub fan messages- who cares what they do anyway.

Let's try and fix our own problems.

Why not rip the cub fans?

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 02:10 PM
Hey,

Nobody likes a good Cub bashing more than I do.

however, why does everything have to be compared to them? We have established the fact that we are better fans and they are pudds.

I want to fix this lack of fan support B.S. I have dealt with this crap my whole life and it sucks. Why can't we generate more enthusiasm in this city?

By the way, is anybody else longing for a Saturday evening full of beer, dogs, and fireworks?

Boy, I am ready for spring!

PaleHoseGeorge
02-25-2002, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I am not pissed at you at all- I don't want you to get the wrong idea....

That's cool. I'm not pissed at you, either. The success of any business to attract customers ultimately depends on the competence of management to do its job. K-mart is in bankruptcy because Walmart and Target were better managed and took away the undisputed leading market share K-mart once enjoyed.

Blaming Sox Fans for the failure of the White Sox is, IMO, truly putting the cart before the horse. Suggesting Cubs fans are the better fans, as others were earlier in this thread, is utter lunacy.

The 2000 Sox set a record for walk up sales. It's a measure of how bad the Sox let their season ticket base erode that so many fans decided to show up at Comiskey only on the day of the game. It's season tickets that are the mother's milk of franchise health, and the Sox are breaking new ground for ways to turn off fans.

:reinsy
"My first-place team won't be playing in the 1994 World Series."
"Anybody who thinks we were going to catch Cleveland is crazy."
"I'm sure Sox fans are glad they were wrong about the White Flag trade."
etcetera,
etcetera,
etcetera.

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 02:22 PM
I agree 100%.

After building a young team that wins the division in 2000, the Sox end up with a season ticket base of 12000. Although up from 2000, that is a horrible number for a team that won its division, and added David Wells at the time.

Currently, the season ticket base is around 7500 according to my Sox sales girl. Who is selling these packages- and why do they still have a job?

Back when New Comiskey opened, upper deck seats were $4.00 during the week. Basically, they were half price.

Sell them for $1.00. Nobody is going to sit there otherwise.

Also, how about catering to the young adultfan a little more. If you ask me Comiskey is a little too family oriented.

Old Comiskey Park was a surly, tough, fun crowd. Change the marketing targets.

Kilroy
02-25-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I want to fix this lack of fan support B.S. I have dealt with this crap my whole life and it sucks. Why can't we generate more enthusiasm in this city?

The only thing that will fix it is sustained competitiveness. Case in point? Chicago Bulls. They sucked forever and couldn't draw flies. Then they got pretty decent and had good crowds. Then they won championships and had people fighting for tickets. Now they suck and still have a full house of people who wanted to go forever but never could, and they have sucked for the last 4 years.

What you're looing for won't happen in 1 or 2 good seasons. Mabye 5 good ones w/ a few solid playoff runs in there. Then you can build a base of fans. But one good season won't turn the tide.

RedPinStripes
02-25-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I agree 100%.

Sell them for $1.00. Nobody is going to sit there otherwise.

Also, how about catering to the young adultfan a little more. If you ask me Comiskey is a little too family oriented.

Old Comiskey Park was a surly, tough, fun crowd. Change the marketing targets.

YYYYYYYYYYYYYEssssss!!!!!!! Thank you! I've begging for a KISS night for years! Hey, the band already wears the Sox colors. Why not ? I really get sick of going to 5 games out of the year that are Willie friggin Wonka day.

Fridays should be for young adults. That is no place for kids anyway on friday night. A lot of people get their check on friday, go to the bar and they are trashed by the time they get to the park on Friday. Why do you think the Friday Sox\Cubs game is in the afternoon this year? Because I saw more fights and profanity then I ever saw at a baseball game including the old park last year on friday night.

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 02:34 PM
The last two Cubs/Sox friday games at the ballmall were doozies.

A lot of drinking, and swearing , and few punches in between. Good old fashioned Chicago baseball.

All we needed were a few more old men in undershirts and I would have sworn I was at Old Comiskey!

voodoochile
02-25-2002, 02:47 PM
I think there are valid points on both sides of the argument. It is really a vicious circle that confronts the Sox...

They cannot afford to spend with the big boys until they get more attendance (that is - IMO - a basic financial fact). On the other hand... they cannot get more fans in the park without a winner.

Hopefully they will eventually fire Gallas (PHG's whipping boy) and hire a guy who actually understands marketing and is able to attract the casual fan - on this point, PHG and others are dead on.

At least the Sox have improved their farm system and they are once again opening a playoff window. If the fans don't come out to see the team then they too must bear some of the responsibility for the financial situation.

I know people are upset with JR - and in some cases rightfully so - but in the end, it is the team that matters. Anyone who is staying away from the park because they dislike JR is hurting the teams chances, IMO.

Both sides must bear some of the blame...

Cheryl
02-25-2002, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I think there are valid points on both sides of the argument. It is really a vicious circle that confronts the Sox...

They cannot afford to spend with the big boys until they get more attendance (that is - IMO - a basic financial fact). On the other hand... they cannot get more fans in the park without a winner.


Baloney. With all due respect, of course. I don't care how many times JR says he'd trade all 6 NBA championships for one World Series, all he (and the other owners) are interested in is the bottom line. And if that wasn't to their liking , they'd do something about it. If they did get the casual fan interested, and attendance did go up, they'd have that increased rent to pay. I bet keeping attendance down is part of the plan. That way, not only do they not have to field a winning team, but they get to blame it all on poor attendance.

voodoochile
02-25-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


Baloney. With all due respect, of course. I don't care how many times JR says he'd trade all 6 NBA championships for one World Series, all he (and the other owners) are interested in is the bottom line. And if that wasn't to their liking , they'd do something about it. If they did get the casual fan interested, and attendance did go up, they'd have that increased rent to pay. I bet keeping attendance down is part of the plan. That way, not only do they not have to field a winning team, but they get to blame it all on poor attendance.

Wow - now that is a conspiracy theory... I'm impressed.

It doesn't make sense though... JM could keep attendance low and make a certain amount of money or double the attendance and almost double his revenue. The relatively small amount of rent he would pay would not even come close to touching the extra revenue generated by an extra 1 million fans spending close to $40 apiece while attending a game.

Cheryl
02-25-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Wow - now that is a conspiracy theory... I'm impressed.

It doesn't make sense though... JM could keep attendance low and make a certain amount of money or double the attendance and almost double his revenue. The relatively small amount of rent he would pay would not even come close to touching the extra revenue generated by an extra 1 million fans spending close to $40 apiece while attending a game.

The owners probably use the Sox for some kind of tax break as well, don't you think? I'm not a business person, but it seems to me that if they really were just breaking even, or losing money, the owners would bail. Instead, we've got the situation we've got, Loria gets to ruin one team and buy another, John Henry (who as a former owner, should know better) bids some outrageous amount for the BoSox. They have to be making money at this or they'd take their toys and go home.

cheeses_h_rice
02-25-2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


The owners probably use the Sox for some kind of tax break as well, don't you think? I'm not a business person, but it seems to me that if they really were just breaking even, or losing money, the owners would bail. Instead, we've got the situation we've got, Loria gets to ruin one team and buy another, John Henry (who as a former owner, should know better) bids some outrageous amount for the BoSox. They have to be making money at this or they'd take their toys and go home.

Franchises may lose money on paper, but their overall value ALWAYS is increasing. If/when Reinsdorf and his pals cash out, they'll be compensated quite well for their 20+ years of capital investment.

voodoochile
02-25-2002, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


The owners probably use the Sox for some kind of tax break as well, don't you think? I'm not a business person, but it seems to me that if they really were just breaking even, or losing money, the owners would bail. Instead, we've got the situation we've got, Loria gets to ruin one team and buy another, John Henry (who as a former owner, should know better) bids some outrageous amount for the BoSox. They have to be making money at this or they'd take their toys and go home.

Well, there has been a large unrealized capital increase for the owners. JR and his group bought the Sox for $8 million and the team is now worth about $200 million (I think). Still, on an investment of $8 million, if the Sox were making a profit of $1 million a year it would be an excellent return on investment - 12.5%, but wouldn't be enough to even sign one more starting pitcher - for example.

cheeses_h_rice
02-25-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Well, there has been a large unrealized capital increase for the owners. JR and his group bought the Sox for $8 million and the team is now worth about $200 million (I think). Still, on an investment of $8 million, if the Sox were making a profit of $1 million a year it would be an excellent return on investment - 12.5%, but wouldn't be enough to even sign one more starting pitcher - for example.

I just found this link on USA Today's website:

CHICAGO WHITE SOX

Principal owner: Jerry Reinsdorf (1981). Headed a limited partnership that paid $20 million for the team. He also is chairman of the NBA's Chicago Bulls.

Value of team: $213 million

Revenue: $92.6 million

2001 Opening Day payroll: $62.4 million

Avg. salary: $2.31 million

Avg. attendance: 22,077 (44,321)

This appears to be written about a year ago. I think the revenue figure is high, at least compared to what Crain's has been reporting (usually $50-$75M a year). However, the value has gone up 10-fold in 20 years. Not an amazing ROI, but still, pretty good.

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 04:27 PM
The numbers that the White Sox have to make public show that their bottom line is directly tied into attendance.

If the Sox don't draw, the Sox don't make money period. Is it possible that Reinsdorf makes a buck here and there investing the teams' cash flow? Sure it's possible.

you can't use other teams as an example when it comes to the Sox.

The Sox get a good amount of dough from T.V. revenue, but lack in attendance/concessions etc...

Why would someone want to keep attendance low to barely make money when they could increase attendance, increase revenue which will increase profits!

There is no conspiracy here...

cheeses_h_rice
02-25-2002, 04:31 PM
I agree that there is no conspiracy, though you have to admit that the attendance clauses serve as at least a mild disincentive. It's almost like they're a buoy for Sox management that they know is there.

THE_HOOTER
02-25-2002, 04:44 PM
The attendance clause is a disincentive because there always is the option for the Sox management to fold tent if they want to save a buck or two.

The one thing about the clause though- is it 1.2 million minimum?

That is 14,815 fans a game. If you cannot average that or higher year in and year out you should fold as a franchise anyway.

The Sox average 22000#?

With the 3rd biggest city behind you, The Sox should draw 35000 fans minimum.

I just don't get it. :?:

AsInWreck
02-25-2002, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


That's cool. I'm not pissed at you, either. The success of any business to attract customers ultimately depends on the competence of management to do its job. K-mart is in bankruptcy because Walmart and Target were better managed and took away the undisputed leading market share K-mart once enjoyed.

Blaming Sox Fans for the failure of the White Sox is, IMO, truly putting the cart before the horse. Suggesting Cubs fans are the better fans, as others were earlier in this thread, is utter lunacy.

The 2000 Sox set a record for walk up sales. It's a measure of how bad the Sox let their season ticket base erode that so many fans decided to show up at Comiskey only on the day of the game. It's season tickets that are the mother's milk of franchise health, and the Sox are breaking new ground for ways to turn off fans.


From '81-'93 my dad would drive me and the family 15-18 times a year the 3 hour drive to chicago for sox games, usually on sundays. We'd leave at 8 am
in time to get to the park around 11, stay for the game, go out to eat and be back home around 11p.
Since '94 my dad has not gone to a single game at comiskey, if he wants to see the sox he'll drive the same distance to detroit or cleveland, and he vows never to go to a game at comiskey until JR is
gone. This is a guy who has been diehard since his 1st game in the early fifties and there's thousands, I'm guessing, like him, and in almost ten years he hasn't softened his stance, and i can't say I blame him. I'd still go to games if i
lived in the vicinity, but JR's a bum who is one of the main contibutor's to baseballs current state, and I agree in principle w/ anyone who refuses to support him

fado
02-26-2002, 09:42 AM
It's been awhile since I've been here, and it's great to be back. I'd check in every once and awhile to see what everyone is thinking about, but it wasn't until today that I've found a post that riled me up.

I've lived in the shadow of Comiskey(35th & Lowe) my entire life. And I've loved the Sox since my grandfather had to hold me up at the troughs to take a leak. The guy standing next to my gramps said that I was going to be a beer drinker someday, WOW was that guy a Ms. Cleo or what! My family has had season tickets since I can remember, and I bought my first season ticket plan with a friend of mine in '94. God did that suck.

Anyway, I think that I can give you some incite on why people stay away from the park, but more importantly, the neighborhood.

The first problem is that people like Mariotti, and Giangreco, and all the other morons of the media bash Bridgeport. People who live on the South Side with their kids are afraid to come down to Comiskey because they fear for their lives. What horse****! I've said it once and I'll say it again there is nothing wrong with where I live. In fact, police reports have shown that there is more crime around Wrigley than there is around Comiskey. Just in case you're wondering, I know I read that in the Sun Times when they publish the crime statistics every year. The bulk of the games that families will go to are the afternoon games so they can get the hell out of there when the game is over.

As for young adults, the only thing that I can see to get them into the ballpark is making Thursday or Friday a half-price night. End of story. Mondays are great, but it's monday! Who in their right mind is going to get loaded on a Monday (Besides Me!). The park is close to 75% full on Mondays. Why not add another day of the week, closer to the weekend.

But, here is the last reason that I think people have a problem with Comiskey. If you booze, like me, and you live out South, how the hell are you going to get home unless you drive. I think the Sox need to have a conversation with Metra, and have a stop built at IIT. There's room for one there and I think that you would increase fan base by at least 30%. Most Sox fans live in the South to Southwest Suburbs. Some drive into work which means they have to drive home. How would you feel after a hours drive back to your house after work, only to pick up some people to turn around and come right back into the city, sit for three hours and go back. I'd be nuts, and drunk! The Metra addition would solve a ton of those problems. Stay in the loop for dinner, go to the game, get loaded, and take the train back to your house. Have someone pick you up for the station.

I know a lot of people have problems with JR. So do I. But I don't think hee is a valild excuse to go out and watch a great young group of guys play ball. They actually look like they are playing because they enjoy the game. Not because they're getting huge paychecks.

Anyway, got a little winded there need a :gulp:


John

Cubbiesuck13
02-26-2002, 10:19 AM
I just want to say that I too, hate JR, that no good bastard. He could shell out some more and raise the payroll without good attendance, of course he would not make as much. Seeing as Sox fans know about this guy and how he wont do that, good attendance is what has to happen for the payroll to go up and the team we have to stay. I think for all the fans who have a beef with JR and co. put it aside. He doesnt apear to be going anywhere and the blue seats apear to stay. They are making some changes to the park but that shouldnt have an effect on the true fans. It would effect the tourist fans but JR should already know that. Sox fans need to go to some of the games or else they shouldnt bitch about how the team sucks and all that. Now that they dont suck I think a little improvement is due.


Dollar seats would be a great idea. They market comiskey to be a family park but tickets are so expensive i dont see how they do that. Lower prices, that will be a big thing. If I had to pay for 4-6 tickets for my family, thats a ton of money for a blue coller worker. Cut that in half or hell, even for a dollar and all the sudden I can go, kids can get somethign to eat. People wanna go, some just cant afford it. Wrigley is in a place where most are affluent yuppies that could afford a pricey ticket.

the scorekeeper
02-26-2002, 10:32 AM
Very brief discussion of numbers:

(source: http://baseball-almanac.com/teams/wsoxatte.shtml)

in 41 of the last 91 years the sox had attendance better than the league average.

in the 90's, only the park change ('91-'93) brought in better attendance.

in the 80's, only 83 and 84 were above average.

in the 70's, 5 times

in the 60's, 6 times

in the 50's, _8_ times.

interesting that since JR took over the team, attendance has only been really good 5 times in 20 years, and those occasions were tied to winning seasons and the new park.

now, as has been posted before, JR's rent is based on a portion of the cost of each ticket once attendence reaches a certain level. There's no disincentive here - they make less money on each ticket sold past a certain point, but they STILL MAKE MONEY.

Keep in mind that ownership controls all parking revenue and nearly all concession revenue (people who go to Jimbo's, Donnie's and others to eat before or bring food in to the park are relatively rare).

all of that said, I would love to see high-school night, half price (or less, those $1 upper deck seats sound good) with ID. More kids days would be great, they make money on the parents' seats and all the concessions / souveniers, even if they give a kid a $1 seat. put 'em in the outfield or wherever. The Twins have (had?) an $82 season ticket plan for upper deck seats at $1/game - and had great success. Heck, their dollar dog nights have been a smash. Why is it that a "contraction-bound" team has better marketing than us?

harwar
02-26-2002, 10:33 AM
I'm an old man(47) and i was heart broke when they tore down the old ballpark,i mean i practically grew up in the park.However;I'm sure glad to see jerry is finally taking his head out of his arse.Why,in building the new ballpark,he was trying to make an exact copy of yankee stadium is beyond me.There were also some very dubious trades between the 2 teams.What worries me is that the commercial advertising is out of control,especially with the fox network putting up that cyber-billboard behing home plate during the World Series.If they continue on this intrusive course,i forsee a time when the playing field that we see on tv may be a giant beer or pepsi can.

Paulwny
02-26-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by harwar
I'm an old man(47) and i was heart broke when they tore down the old ballpark,i mean i practically grew up in the park.However;I'm sure glad to see jerry is finally taking his head out of his arse.Why,in building the new ballpark,he was trying to make an exact copy of yankee stadium is beyond me.There were also some very dubious trades between the 2 teams.What worries me is that the commercial advertising is out of control,especially with the fox network putting up that cyber-billboard behing home plate during the World Series.If they continue on this intrusive course,i forsee a time when the playing field that we see on tv may be a giant beer or pepsi can.

Some day some owner will rent out the space on the backs of players' jersies. "EAT AT JOE"S"

irish rover
02-26-2002, 11:04 AM
I wish there was better attendance, and I agree that the sox focus too much on the family(even with the prices being not that bad, but still is expensive for a family to go to alot of games) they need to attract the causual fans etc....

One thing I hope though is that with increase attendance we do not have the problems the true cub fans have. Some of my cub fan friends are pissed right now. First they had the wrong number to call to get tickets, plus brokers got a ton of them. So even with the increase in tickets prices, if they want to go to a game they are going to have to pay a ton from a broker, now if the cubs play bad they are going to have to pay about $100 to see their team even if they are bad( which reinfoces the idea that most people at cub games are tourists and don't care about the team or game it self), the true cub fan is being priced out whichmay help us in the long run for if they start to bring thier families to comiskey the youngins maybecome sox fans of the future

With the changes to the neighborhood, the cubs priceing themselves away from the true fan and changes to Comiskey, there may well indeed be increase in attendance outside of just winning, but it will take time

cheeses_h_rice
02-26-2002, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by irish rover
I wish there was better attendance, and I agree that the sox focus too much on the family(even with the prices being not that bad, but still is expensive for a family to go to alot of games) they need to attract the causual fans etc....

One thing I hope though is that with increase attendance we do not have the problems the true cub fans have. Some of my cub fan friends are pissed right now. First they had the wrong number to call to get tickets, plus brokers got a ton of them. So even with the increase in tickets prices, if they want to go to a game they are going to have to pay a ton from a broker, now if the cubs play bad they are going to have to pay about $100 to see their team even if they are bad( which reinfoces the idea that most people at cub games are tourists and don't care about the team or game it self), the true cub fan is being priced out whichmay help us in the long run for if they start to bring thier families to comiskey the youngins maybecome sox fans of the future

With the changes to the neighborhood, the cubs priceing themselves away from the true fan and changes to Comiskey, there may well indeed be increase in attendance outside of just winning, but it will take time

The Flub fans who "have" to pay $100 a ticket are those that want to A) sit in the bleachers, or B) go see the Sox or Cardinals. If they are only concerned about being at the game, there are almost always regular-priced tickets available. I ain't gonna cry too much for the "plight" of these Flub fans. If their enjoyment of the game is tied strictly into where they're sitting or who they're playing, I can't have much sympathy.

NorthSideConvert
02-26-2002, 02:41 PM
I am one of a hopefuly growing number of ex-cubs fans who have seen the light. Most of my freinds on the North Side are so called Cubs fans, but they are increasingly fed up with the Wrigley scene. They now are buying grandstans seats. As an indication of how absurd the tourist element has become, last season I witnessed vast numbers of so called fans turn down box seats at face value from scalpers, because they only wanted bleachers, and if they couldnt get get bleachers, they would watch the game at one of the suurounding bars. As we all know the bleachers are a see and be seen bar where the so called Beautiful People wish to flaunt their ability to pay a 60-100 dollar cover charge to drink Bud Light (only tourists from across state line drink Old Style in the bleachers ). BTW i have moved far away form Chicago ut still have full season tix with Stadium Club, so if anyone needs tix drop me a line.

GO SOX

NSC

RichH55
02-26-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by NorthSideConvert
I am one of a hopefuly growing number of ex-cubs fans who have seen the light. Most of my freinds on the North Side are so called Cubs fans, but they are increasingly fed up with the Wrigley scene. They now are buying grandstans seats. As an indication of how absurd the tourist element has become, last season I witnessed vast numbers of so called fans turn down box seats at face value from scalpers, because they only wanted bleachers, and if they couldnt get get bleachers, they would watch the game at one of the suurounding bars. As we all know the bleachers are a see and be seen bar where the so called Beautiful People wish to flaunt their ability to pay a 60-100 dollar cover charge to drink Bud Light (only tourists from across state line drink Old Style in the bleachers ). BTW i have moved far away form Chicago ut still have full season tix with Stadium Club, so if anyone needs tix drop me a line.

GO SOX

NSC


You know I am so going to take you up on that:) How many do you have and where....perhaps we can work something out.....drop me a line at RichH55@aol.com

NorthSideConvert
02-26-2002, 02:55 PM
2 Seats, #1 and 2, row 1, sec 527 + 4 stadium club passes

NSC

FarWestChicago
02-26-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by NorthSideConvert
I am one of a hopefuly growing number of ex-cubs fans who have seen the light. Most of my freinds on the North Side are so called Cubs fans, but they are increasingly fed up with the Wrigley scene. They now are buying grandstans seats. As an indication of how absurd the tourist element has become, last season I witnessed vast numbers of so called fans turn down box seats at face value from scalpers, because they only wanted bleachers, and if they couldnt get get bleachers, they would watch the game at one of the suurounding bars. As we all know the bleachers are a see and be seen bar where the so called Beautiful People wish to flaunt their ability to pay a 60-100 dollar cover charge to drink Bud Light (only tourists from across state line drink Old Style in the bleachers ). BTW i have moved far away form Chicago ut still have full season tix with Stadium Club, so if anyone needs tix drop me a line.

GO SOX

NSC Welcome to WSI, NSC! :gulp:

It's good to see you have forsaken the Dark Side. :smile:

nut_stock
02-27-2002, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by NorthSideConvert
BTW i have moved far away form Chicago ut still have full season tix with Stadium Club, so if anyone needs tix drop me a line.

NSC

Where did you move to? Far enough not to use most of your season tix?

FarWestChicago
02-27-2002, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by nut_stock


Where did you move to? Far enough not to use most of your season tix? His location say Manchester, NH. That's a bit of a trek to Chicago. :smile:

CLR01
02-27-2002, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I think there are valid points on both sides of the argument. It is really a vicious circle that confronts the Sox...

They cannot afford to spend with the big boys until they get more attendance (that is - IMO - a basic financial fact). On the other hand... they cannot get more fans in the park without a winner.

Hopefully they will eventually fire Gallas (PHG's whipping boy) and hire a guy who actually understands marketing and is able to attract the casual fan - on this point, PHG and others are dead on.

At least the Sox have improved their farm system and they are once again opening a playoff window. If the fans don't come out to see the team then they too must bear some of the responsibility for the financial situation.

I know people are upset with JR - and in some cases rightfully so - but in the end, it is the team that matters. Anyone who is staying away from the park because they dislike JR is hurting the teams chances, IMO.

Both sides must bear some of the blame...

Well, there has been a large unrealized capital increase for the owners. JR and his group bought the Sox for $8 million and the team is now worth about $200 million (I think). Still, on an investment of $8 million, if the Sox were making a profit of $1 million a year it would be an excellent return on investment - 12.5%, but wouldn't be enough to even sign one more starting pitcher - for example.


I agree with everything you said voodoo.

RedPinStripes
02-27-2002, 02:58 AM
I'm pretty sure they bought the Sox for 20 million.

chisox59
02-27-2002, 06:02 AM
Here are my thoughts on the "new" Comiskey Park and the attendance problems. I don't like the upper deck or the "Cub Blue" colors. Except for the "rainbow colored" outfield seats that old Comiskey had at one time I acquaint the Sox with a forest green décor. This will never be old Comiskey and the nosebleed upper deck will never be popular but some changes can make the park more fan friendly. A continually competitive team
is the real key to bringing fans out.

I think that the most frustrating aspect from my perspective is this. People don't like George Steinbrenner but he tries to win and rewards the people who produce for him with long term contracts at market value. Jerry refuses to do this. If his player produces and can seek more pay via free agency, Jerry will trade him the year before or let him go. We've been under a constant rebuild since he bought the franchise. I don't like free agency or arbitration either but if I'm going to compete I have to play by the rules as they are not what I would like them to be. If Jerry wants fan loyalty and increased attendance he'd better start showing us that he's willing to keep a team's nucleus together and not continuallly tear the team apart and attempt to rebuild. Giving one star (Frank Thomas) a long term contract but letting everyone else go is not competing. I was a team and player fan back in the 50's but since free agency came about I'm a team fan only. I don't care who wears my team's colors as long as we're competitive..

Give me pitching and defense and a continuity of
personnel that the fans can relate to and the seats will begin to fill. Make personnel decisions because they'll improve the team not because you refuse to deal with the economics of today's game. If you can't deal with it then sell the team to someone who can and the fans will show their support in return.

Paulwny
02-27-2002, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by chisox59
. I was a team and player fan back in the 50's but since free agency came about I'm a team fan only. I don't care who wears my team's colors as long as we're competitive..
.


I have the same feelings although, this also may be an age factor. As we get older we lose the hero worship for the individual and look at the team as one.
I was heartbroken when I was a kid and Fox and Aparicio were traded. If I was older I don't think it would have effected me as much.

soxrme
02-27-2002, 02:12 PM
GET RID OF THE BULLPENS IN LEFT FIELD, PUT THEM BACK IN CENTER FIELD. THOSE SEATS WOULD BE PRIMO SEATS. FORGET BLOCKING OFF ALL THE SEATS ON SAT NITE IN THE OUTFIELD. WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT? GOOD SEATS FOR THE FANS OR FIREWORKS. RENOVATE COMPETELY AND TEAR OFF THE SECOND TIER OF SKY BOXES AND THE WHOLE UPPER DECK AND BUILD IT PROPERLY. ORRRRR WIN A DAMN WORLD SERIES AND FORGET ALL THE OTHER STUFF.

NorthSideConvert
02-27-2002, 05:31 PM
Yup, I'm in Manchester, NH. Fortunately theres a Southwest nonstop flight that leaves after work (I'm 5 minutes from the airport here) and gets into Midway around 8 chicago time. So it only takes 3 hours to get to the ball park. I have lots of frequent flyer freebie tix so it wont kill me finacially. I'll proably be in town for 6 weekends plus a full week over the 4th of July, so I figure to make about 25 games this year. I figure to sell about 30 games to friends back in Chicago, so I do have plenty of games to go around.

NSC

Cubbiesuck13
02-27-2002, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by soxrme
GET RID OF THE BULLPENS IN LEFT FIELD, PUT THEM BACK IN CENTER FIELD. THOSE SEATS WOULD BE PRIMO SEATS. FORGET BLOCKING OFF ALL THE SEATS ON SAT NITE IN THE OUTFIELD. WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT? GOOD SEATS FOR THE FANS OR FIREWORKS. RENOVATE COMPETELY AND TEAR OFF THE SECOND TIER OF SKY BOXES AND THE WHOLE UPPER DECK AND BUILD IT PROPERLY. ORRRRR WIN A DAMN WORLD SERIES AND FORGET ALL THE OTHER STUFF.

Yeah well i would be so happy if they won the series. Man just thinking about it makes me smile. hmmmmmmmmm wow. That would be fantastick. ahhhhhhhhh :kermit

nut_stock
02-27-2002, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by soxrme
FORGET BLOCKING OFF ALL THE SEATS ON SAT NITE IN THE OUTFIELD. WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT? GOOD SEATS FOR THE FANS OR FIREWORKS.

Oh, there's plenty of good seats available. It's not like we sell out most of our fireworks nights anyway. So you can't sit in centerfield one night a week...big deal! You are correct in saying that the game is more important, but why neglect a successful promotion? Besides those shows kick ass!

bc2k
02-28-2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by nut_stock


Oh, there's plenty of good seats available. It's not like we sell out most of our fireworks nights anyway. So you can't sit in centerfield one night a week...big deal! You are correct in saying that the game is more important, but why neglect a successful promotion? Besides those shows kick ass!

The fireworks are fun to watch. I went to two fireworks nights last season that I didn't have tickets to. I parked across the street, yes, kind of near the robert taylor homes. You could still see the show pretty well and it was fairly safe being as there were a couple of other cars parked by me also watching the free show. You cannot hear the music they play in the ballpark timed with the fireworks, and thats a good thing.

Open your windows, crank the radio, and sit on the hood of your car with you girlfriend. Girls love that stuff. I planned a nice date of free fireworks and continued to drive into the city for dinner and a stroll around Buckingham Fountain. All you guys at WSI can score a lot of points with your wives/girlfriends/mistrises by following that plan. Tell her the two of you are going out for dinner downtown and then use the fireworks as a surprise. Sorry, this belongs more in the parking lot, but I figure the more WSI cars sitting across the street, the safer we'll all be. I don't think the Robert Taylor residents will mess with a group of street tuffs like us WSI internet members.

RedPinStripes
02-28-2002, 12:54 AM
I don't think you were at the taylor homes if you were accross the street. You were by the low rises by the E lot right? I forget the name of them , but that's not the nicest place to take your girlfriend.

Cubbiesuck13
02-28-2002, 10:16 AM
Those shows are fantastick, forth of july they have the best around. Why would you not wanna have the shows? Those seats are not the only ones available, there are a ton of seats that you could get a good view from. One good thing about that place is the view. You might fall down the uper deck because its so steep, but you will get a good view.

SouthSide_Hitman
03-02-2002, 11:59 AM
Cubs fans alow know when to fill the ballpark if the team is winning which umm last time i checked, sox fans (in 2000) failed to do. [/B][/QUOTE]

Typical for a Flubs fan.......speaking before thinking (and thats some mighty nice spelling there too,pally)....when was the last time Da' Flubs had back to back winning season....uh,something like 32 years ago....so before you go and try to down the Real Chicago Baseball team....think before you type,son.
Now go climb back into your little BMW,take a drink of your bottled water,turn on your cell phone,zip up your Eddie Baurer jacket and go home......you Lexington Park Trixie.
Cubs Suck an so do you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :whiner: <--------Cubs fans

rcescato
03-07-2002, 02:54 PM
I saw that picture of Giangreco and cringed. I hate that guy so much. I was watching cahnnel 7 and he mentioned that hilights of the Sox were coming on at 6 but he didn't think anyone
even cared to watch it. The same broadcast he was following Sosa around like a puppy dog. I thought he was going to splewge in his pants when he touched sammys, as he said, guns.
I did not see the broadcast after the 20-6 drubbing but I am sure he downplayed it. If the flubs would have won by the same score it would have been headlines. I just ahte Chicago media.
Rich

FarWestChicago
03-07-2002, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by rcescato
I saw that picture of Giangreco and cringed. I hate that guy so much. I was watching cahnnel 7 and he mentioned that hilights of the Sox were coming on at 6 but he didn't think anyone
even cared to watch it. The same broadcast he was following Sosa around like a puppy dog. I thought he was going to splewge in his pants when he touched sammys, as he said, guns.
I did not see the broadcast after the 20-6 drubbing but I am sure he downplayed it. If the flubs would have won by the same score it would have been headlines. I just ahte Chicago media.
Rich Welcome to WSI, Rich! :gulp:

Yeah, the Chicago media sucks. Too much :bluerock

Soxheads
03-07-2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Welcome to WSI, Rich! :gulp:

Yeah, the Chicago media sucks. Too much :bluerock

We get a lot of :bluerock here in Iowa too.

orbatel
03-11-2002, 03:07 PM
Hay its time to face it the park was built with no forsight and now we are playing catch up to the other new ballparks. Still I don't remember anyone complaining about the park or the interstate when we were winning the division and among the leaders in attendance before the strike. The skrike blew it for our championship and Reinsdorf is paying the price now.

HE should stop stating if the fans come out how he will spend the money-he should sell the team if he can't afford to make it a great franchise like it should be.

Go SOX!!!!!