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View Full Version : Can we be done with the Cotts Experiment


nevr say dye sox
08-26-2006, 09:43 AM
I blame Ozzie for last nights loss... Once again, this season he was out managed. Why was Neal Cotts brought into the game. He only gave up a hit, but it was alead off hit of the inning. He CAN'T get an out! His warm-up lasted longer than his time on the mound. Why wasn't McCarthy brought in?

Second question, why was Cintron brought in to pinch hit for Iguchi. I understand the lefty righty match up, but Cintron is not good. I would rather have guchi up there. He stood there and watched a called strike for strike three.

Lastly why didn't Ozzie bring in Jenks in the 9th? He has proven this year he can pitch more than one inning. YOu bring him in to get the last out and pitch him in the 10th if you need him. Waht do you think, I feel ozzie blew it!

Soxfanspcu11
08-26-2006, 10:14 AM
I blame Ozzie for last nights loss... Once again, this season he was out managed. Why was Neal Cotts brought into the game. He only gave up a hit, but it was alead off hit of the inning. He CAN'T get an out! His warm-up lasted longer than his time on the mound. Why wasn't McCarthy brought in?

Second question, why was Cintron brought in to pinch hit for Iguchi. I understand the lefty righty match up, but Cintron is not good. I would rather have guchi up there. He stood there and watched a called strike for strike three.

Lastly why didn't Ozzie bring in Jenks in the 9th? He has proven this year he can pitch more than one inning. YOu bring him in to get the last out and pitch him in the 10th if you need him. Waht do you think, I feel ozzie blew it!

Your right in your first paragraph, Cotts should NEVER be brought into a close game. Want a lefty? Get Thornton. Cotts has turned into nothing more than an inning eater, he is that bad.

Your second question, I'm not mad at Ozzie for bringing in Cintron. He is not "not good" as you say. He has come through a bunch this year. Ozzie felt that this matchup would work, and it didn't, what are you going to do? **** happens. Cintron starring at strike 3 was not Ozzie's fault.

And thirdly, I am sort of up in the air as to whether Jenks should have come in or not. It was not a save situation and that's where Bobby thrives. He has proven himself in non-save situations before sure, but I think Ozzie goes with MacDougal there because this was the 1st game of the series. I think Ozzie believes that there will be save opportunities for Bobby very soon, perhaps the next 2 days, and you don't want to wear out your closer.

Ultimately, if you have to place the blame on anyone, it really is on Ozzie in this case. Yeah Cintron ****ed up, but he is a player, that's part of the game, not getting the job done. Ozzie is the top dog, he made the call to get Cotts. Why he keeps putting that loser in games is beyond me.:(:

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 10:34 AM
No, we can't be done with it. Why? Because it makes too much sense.

Chips
08-26-2006, 10:48 AM
Your right in your first paragraph, Cotts should NEVER be brought into a close game. Want a lefty? Get Thornton. Cotts has turned into nothing more than an inning eater, he is that bad.

Your second question, I'm not mad at Ozzie for bringing in Cintron. He is not "not good" as you say. He has come through a bunch this year. Ozzie felt that this matchup would work, and it didn't, what are you going to do? **** happens. Cintron starring at strike 3 was not Ozzie's fault.

And thirdly, I am sort of up in the air as to whether Jenks should have come in or not. It was not a save situation and that's where Bobby thrives. He has proven himself in non-save situations before sure, but I think Ozzie goes with MacDougal there because this was the 1st game of the series. I think Ozzie believes that there will be save opportunities for Bobby very soon, perhaps the next 2 days, and you don't want to wear out your closer.

Ultimately, if you have to place the blame on anyone, it really is on Ozzie in this case. Yeah Cintron ****ed up, but he is a player, that's part of the game, not getting the job done. Ozzie is the top dog, he made the call to get Cotts. Why he keeps putting that loser in games is beyond me.:(:

Cotts should never be brought into any game ever again. The rest sounds pretty damn good as well, but it's you're not your.

Procol Harum
08-26-2006, 11:40 AM
Maybe last night was something like the last straw for Cotts this year--one can only hope that Ozzie and Kenny will realize that like Cliff Politte, for whatever reason, Cotts just isn't getting it done. And I had been so pleased to see that Oz was taking Vasquez out....only to see him bring in Cotts--Aiiiieeeee!!! :o:

spiffie
08-26-2006, 11:44 AM
And thirdly, I am sort of up in the air as to whether Jenks should have come in or not. It was not a save situation and that's where Bobby thrives. He has proven himself in non-save situations before sure, but I think Ozzie goes with MacDougal there because this was the 1st game of the series. I think Ozzie believes that there will be save opportunities for Bobby very soon, perhaps the next 2 days, and you don't want to wear out your closer.
Yes, we have so many save chances when Santana pitches.

This was a case where Ozzie needed to be looking ahead and knowing it is not likely that Jenks would have to pitch tomorrow night. Get him in the game in the 9th and try to take the game we pretty much need to win if we are going to win the series. If this was Sunday and we had somehow won the first two I would say sure, stay with McDougal, but without last night, our chances of winning this series got really really really small.

Patrick134
08-26-2006, 11:45 AM
Why doesn't everybody go back and watch Cotts' performance in game 1 of last years world series and say they want him gone again.

spiffie
08-26-2006, 11:48 AM
Why doesn't everybody go back and watch Cotts' performance in game 1 of last years world series and say they want him gone again.
When that Neil Cotts chooses to be a part of the White Sox bullpen again he will be welcomed with open arms. But since the same aliens that stole Cliff Politte and left the crappy pod pitcher in his place have abducted Neil, the comparison between the shell of a pitcher we saw last night and the WS Game 1 stud is totally invalid.

soltrain21
08-26-2006, 11:49 AM
Why doesn't everybody go back and watch Cotts' performance in game 1 of last years world series and say they want him gone again.


While I agree with you, it is very hard to not take the "what have you done for me lately" approach.

The Dude
08-26-2006, 11:49 AM
Why doesn't everybody go back and watch Cotts' performance in game 1 of last years world series and say they want him gone again.

How about we watch Politte's peformance in 2005 and think about bringing him back.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

jdm2662
08-26-2006, 11:51 AM
How about we watch Politte's peformance in 2005 and think about bringing him back.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Beat me to it. Same thoughts here.

Jjav829
08-26-2006, 11:55 AM
Any Politte-Cotts comparisons are completely and utterly ridiculous for one major reason. Cotts is 26. Politte is 32. Politte had a history of being a mediocre reliever and just happened to have a career year last year. Cotts is 26, extremely cheap and not even in the prime years of his career yet. He needs to add another pitch, but you don't give up on a pitcher like Cotts.

Give him a lesser role until he works things out? Sure. Give up on him? Absolutely not.

champagne030
08-26-2006, 11:58 AM
Maybe last night was something like the last straw for Cotts this year--one can only hope that Ozzie and Kenny will realize that like Cliff Politte, for whatever reason, Cotts just isn't getting it done. And I had been so pleased to see that Oz was taking Vasquez out....only to see him bring in Cotts--Aiiiieeeee!!! :o:

Doubtful since Ozzie continues to place a guy in CF that cannot play the position.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2006, 12:04 PM
Jjav:

Good point although it's a legit question to ask why, since he's been struggling all season, he wasn't demoted earlier (July?) so that he could work out his troubles without costing (or helping to cost) the Sox games at the major league level.

Lip

Babe The Blue Ox
08-26-2006, 12:05 PM
Is there anyone on the Sox AAA team that will come up in September that could help out in the BP? Sorry, I don't know Sox minor leaguers very well.

SABRSox
08-26-2006, 12:28 PM
Jjav:

Good point although it's a legit question to ask why, since he's been struggling all season, he wasn't demoted earlier (July?) so that he could work out his troubles without costing (or helping to cost) the Sox games at the major league level.

Lip

There is no one to replace him with in our organization. Just have to ride it out.

Neal will be just fine. Have a little faith. FONC.

Lip Man 1
08-26-2006, 12:33 PM
Sabr:

Well if he was demoted in July perhaps they make a trade OR bring up another pitcher who is right handed. There's no 'law' that says you have to have 'x' number of left handers on the club.

Until Neal 'rides it out' he's costing the Sox games a la Politte. The big leagues is no place to 'ride it out'. You 'ride it out' on the bus driving to Podunk, Arkansas.

Lip

Grzegorz
08-26-2006, 12:36 PM
I'd like Lip's approach especially if Boone Logan was effective. I know, the minors are the minors, so Logan might struggle but having Cotts work out his troubles would be worth it.

There is no way you give up on Cotts; his upside is tremendous.

FielderJones
08-26-2006, 12:51 PM
There is no one to replace him with in our organization. Just have to ride it out.

Neal will be just fine. Have a little faith. FONC.

I don't do faith. Let's look at empirical data (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/player/gamelogs/2006/390801):

In all of Neal's August appearances but one he has given up a hit. In July he had 7 appearances without a hit, 8 with a hit. In June he had 8 appearances without a hit, 5 with a hit. In May he had 7 appearances without a hit, 5 with a hit. The trend line here is not good.

The reason I use hits is that usually when Neal comes in, there is a runner on. So a hit either moves someone into scoring position or scores a run.

The way Neal has been going, the trend shows that he's probably going to make the game situation worse. That's not something a contending team can afford.

Chicken Dinner
08-26-2006, 01:02 PM
Also in August, 8 out of 10 games he was in were loses. Anybody know how many inherited runners he's let score?

BeefyD
08-26-2006, 01:24 PM
Inherited runners shouldn't really be that big of an argument. Thornton has been put in some really bad situations and has excelled. Cotts should worry about the batter and do his job.

And, going a few posts before, last year should NOT be any factor in THIS year. Geez, we're starting to sound like BoSox fans last year..... except at this point we may not even win the wild card.

I'm sorry, but I get a wee bit upset when people are leaning back on last year and saying 'don't worry'. In that case, please let me know when it's ok to come off of the World Champions cloud and back down to real life where we are 1/2 a game behind the Twinkies and looking at going home in Oct. Oh, and with Santana pitching today, I don't see us really gaining any ground.

Huisj
08-26-2006, 01:25 PM
He's been terrible in August, and he was pretty bad for some of July. However, he was pretty solid in May and June, and decent in April. He's been terribly frustrating to watch this year because we know what he's capable of doing, but more often than not lately, he just doesn't do it.

Hmm, sounds a lot like the entire pitching staff . . . :(:

KyWhiSoxFan
08-26-2006, 01:30 PM
Any Politte-Cotts comparisons are completely and utterly ridiculous for one major reason. Cotts is 26. Politte is 32. Politte had a history of being a mediocre reliever and just happened to have a career year last year. Cotts is 26, extremely cheap and not even in the prime years of his career yet.

Cotts not being in his prime is a bit of an understatement. Maybe when he reaches 75% of his prime he can take the mound again. Until then, he should sit.

Soxfanspcu11
08-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Yes, we have so many save chances when Santana pitches.

This was a case where Ozzie needed to be looking ahead and knowing it is not likely that Jenks would have to pitch tomorrow night. Get him in the game in the 9th and try to take the game we pretty much need to win if we are going to win the series. If this was Sunday and we had somehow won the first two I would say sure, stay with McDougal, but without last night, our chances of winning this series got really really really small.

Greg Walker? Is that you? :D:

Corlose 15
08-26-2006, 02:46 PM
This thread is ridiculous. Cotts gave up a single, it wasn't a leadoff single just a single. THATS IT. Riske came in with 2 outs and 2 on and managed to throw ONE PITCH and make a 3-1 lead a 4-3 deficit. Why is nobody talking about that? If you want to bitch about Cotts fine but don't use last night as a very strong argument. And those of you wanting to DFA him need to pull your collective heads out.

As for not bringing in Jenks, its the top of the ninth in a tie game that could very well go extras. Why not use MacDougal and save Jenks for an actual save situation? MacDougal has been lights out and wasn't exactly knocked around last night. Thats why they acquired him.

soxfanreggie
08-26-2006, 02:54 PM
For those of you who don't know this, it's NeAl. We don't have a NeIl on this team.

FielderJones
08-26-2006, 02:54 PM
I don't want to DFA Cotts, I just don't want him used to clean up Vazquez messes any more. Using lots of specialist pitchers in the sixth inning is stupid. McCarthy should be the designated Vazquez cleanup pitcher; he can go 3 or 4 innings easily. Cotts should be relegated to blowout duty until he pulls his head out.

doctorlecter
08-26-2006, 03:25 PM
For those of you who don't know this, it's NeAl. We don't have a NeIl on this team.
That's just the tip of the iceberg. The crimes against the English language are many in this thread.

FJA
08-26-2006, 04:00 PM
I blame Ozzie for last nights loss... Once again, this season he was out managed. Why was Neal Cotts brought into the game. He only gave up a hit, but it was alead off hit of the inning. He CAN'T get an out! His warm-up lasted longer than his time on the mound. Why wasn't McCarthy brought in?

Second question, why was Cintron brought in to pinch hit for Iguchi. I understand the lefty righty match up, but Cintron is not good. I would rather have guchi up there. He stood there and watched a called strike for strike three.

Lastly why didn't Ozzie bring in Jenks in the 9th? He has proven this year he can pitch more than one inning. YOu bring him in to get the last out and pitch him in the 10th if you need him. Waht do you think, I feel ozzie blew it!
Cintron is a toss up; he's had success against Nathan in limited at-bats, and Iguchi hasn't seen Nathan a whole lot. Iguchi has had some good late-inning at-bats, but so has Cintron ... Ozzie took a gamble, and it didn't pay off. It didn't bother me that he was in there. As for Jenks, it wasn't a save situation and MacDougal has been pretty outstanding. A couple of cheap hits found holes, and I'm not sure the same wouldn't have happened with Jenks.

Cotts, though, was the turning point. The man simply cannot do his job. I don't remember the last time he didn't make a bad situation worse. Riske was bad too, but (a) he's been pretty good overall, unlike Cotts; and (b) if Cotts had done his job, we probably wouldn't even be talking about Riske.

batmanZoSo
08-26-2006, 04:05 PM
For those of you who don't know this, it's NeAl. We don't have a NeIl on this team.

http://www.alumni.ilstu.edu/alumninews/051030/images/cottsforweb2.jpg = Neal

http://images.music.com/images/dmc/person/neil_young/1/images/bio.jpg = Neil

southwstchi4life
08-26-2006, 04:58 PM
Your right in your first paragraph, Cotts should NEVER be brought into a close game. Want a lefty? Get Thornton. Cotts has turned into nothing more than an inning eater, he is that bad.

Your second question, I'm not mad at Ozzie for bringing in Cintron. He is not "not good" as you say. He has come through a bunch this year. Ozzie felt that this matchup would work, and it didn't, what are you going to do? **** happens. Cintron starring at strike 3 was not Ozzie's fault.

And thirdly, I am sort of up in the air as to whether Jenks should have come in or not. It was not a save situation and that's where Bobby thrives. He has proven himself in non-save situations before sure, but I think Ozzie goes with MacDougal there because this was the 1st game of the series. I think Ozzie believes that there will be save opportunities for Bobby very soon, perhaps the next 2 days, and you don't want to wear out your closer.

Ultimately, if you have to place the blame on anyone, it really is on Ozzie in this case. Yeah Cintron ****ed up, but he is a player, that's part of the game, not getting the job done. Ozzie is the top dog, he made the call to get Cotts. Why he keeps putting that loser in games is beyond me.:(:

Why was riske brought in and not macdougal. He is much more of a game stopper than riske. I was angry when he did that. Who would rather see riske than macdougal to face hunter