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gbergman
08-25-2006, 11:37 PM
Way to go Riske, Cotts, Macdougal.

Ozzie shouldn't of taken out Vazquez with 1 on and 2 outs.

We needed this.

Halbatross
08-25-2006, 11:38 PM
anybody know that fan? ... how stupid.

hi im skot
08-25-2006, 11:38 PM
This might be the angriest I've ever been after a loss.

Horse****.

1951Campbell
08-25-2006, 11:38 PM
I'll say it again...fan interference?!

***?

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-25-2006, 11:39 PM
Why oh ****ing why can't we EVER WIN when detroit loses. This one hurts. :angry::angry::angry:

Twins Win
08-25-2006, 11:39 PM
anybody know that fan? ... how stupid.

It would have been caught anyway.

hi im skot
08-25-2006, 11:39 PM
Biggest loss of the season?

PAPChiSox729
08-25-2006, 11:39 PM
I'll say it again...fan interference?!

***?

Morneau would have caught that, probably. Still, he may not have. That was not the way to end a game.

jlim
08-25-2006, 11:39 PM
I'll say it again...fan interference?!

***?
I didn't see the game. What happened?

joebro25
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
That one hurt. When AJ set up outside to Bartlett I had a bad feeling thats what was gonna happen. Hello third place.

MrRoboto83
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
Man, Javy pitched great, and then in a blink of an eye it got ugly. This loss hurts. Lets punish Santana tomorrow.

russ99
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
anybody know that fan? ... how stupid.

I'm just as upset about this as everyone else, but Sox fans don't go all Bartman on one of their own. If it was a Twins fan, all bets are off.

SABRSox
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
Biggest loss of the season?

I don't know. It probably hurts the most, though.

eurotrash35
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
**** that. it's always something with this lame ass team. when are they going to get it together?

MrX
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
How you can bring the :gascan and Riske in instead of McCarthy is just beyond me.

Cora's dumbass sending Gload home with one out in the 2nd was just as bad.

RowanDye
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
**** Ozzie and his boytoy Neal Cotts... jeezuz!

wsoxfan
08-25-2006, 11:40 PM
Cora needs to stop waving everyone home when there's less than 2 outs...

1951Campbell
08-25-2006, 11:41 PM
I didn't see the game. What happened?

I didn't see it either! When's the time fan interference was called on the Sox, let along called to end a game?

mccoydp
08-25-2006, 11:41 PM
I didn't see the game. What happened?

You don't want to see it, either.

4th Gen. Sox Fan
08-25-2006, 11:41 PM
Talk about getting the wind knocked out of you, that one hurt

Kub_Killer_15
08-25-2006, 11:41 PM
Somebody yell at this team and wake them the hell up!:mad:

JB98
08-25-2006, 11:41 PM
Way to go Riske, Cotts, Macdougal.

Ozzie shouldn't of taken out Vazquez with 1 on and 2 outs.

We needed this.

Baloney. Vazquez sucks. We were all screaming for Ozzie to get him out of there at the time.

The inability of Mr. $11 million a year to get through the sixth inning continues to cost us.

InContention
08-25-2006, 11:42 PM
:o:

zmz723
08-25-2006, 11:42 PM
Well, if the season ended today... oh wait that doesnt work anymore.

welcome to 3rd place white sox. if that doesnt make you more inspired, i dont know what will

NoShoesJoe
08-25-2006, 11:42 PM
The only way we gain on MIN is if we don't play them and the only way we gain on DET is if we do!

Juice16
08-25-2006, 11:42 PM
3rd place, 0.5 out of the wild card, Santana tomorrow.

NoShoesJoe
08-25-2006, 11:43 PM
3rd place, 0.5 out of the wild card, Santana tomorrow.

Not a good position to be in. :(:

eurotrash35
08-25-2006, 11:43 PM
another demoralizing loss to the twins late in the year. we need to start a brawl or something. this is horse**** the way they come into the cell and just piss all over us.

JB98
08-25-2006, 11:43 PM
Somebody yell at this team and wake them the hell up!:mad:

They're wide awake. They're just getting beat by a team that is hot and might possibly just be better than them.

Anyone still think we're a better team with Thome out of the lineup? Not that tonight was Gload's fault, but still....

socko82
08-25-2006, 11:43 PM
Cora needs to stop waving everyone home when there's less than 2 outs...

Exactly, Waivin' Wendall pissed away a big inning. This game could have been over in the second.......

DickAllen72
08-25-2006, 11:43 PM
The Twins always seem to do just enough to win. That's a good team. Torii Hunter is a winner.

Sox won't beat Santana with one of Ozzie's all RH lineups either.

batmanZoSo
08-25-2006, 11:43 PM
I didn't see it either! When's the time fan interference was called on the Sox, let along called to end a game?

It was legit, I can assure you. Morneau had it right in his breadbasket and the fan swatted it out. All signs pointed to him catching it and frankly I think the fan did the right thing in that particular instance. There's a good chance they don't make that call and we end up winning a "controversial" game. But we didn't because the bullpen ****ed it up.

Madvora
08-25-2006, 11:44 PM
Guess what... I'm ****ing pissed off!

That's right... let's hear all that rosey sunshine **** about how the Sox will be fine now. Screw all that "dark cloud" ****. We deserve to be pissed off!!! It's going to take a miracle to win tomorrow and come out of this series still in first place of the wild card.
This game was absolutely crital and they had it in the palm of their hands.

God damn it!

pasquasroachclip
08-25-2006, 11:44 PM
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...Minnesota just has their number right now

Jjav829
08-25-2006, 11:44 PM
I didn't see the game. What happened?

Dye hit a foul pop up near the rail of the 1B side. Morneau drifted over and as the ball was coming down into his glove, a fan reached over and interferred, preventing Morneau from making the catch. The ump ruled fan interference, ending the game.

zmz723
08-25-2006, 11:44 PM
The inability of Mr. $11 million a year to get through the sixth inning continues to cost us.

just javy being javy :rolleyes:

cheezheadsoxfan
08-25-2006, 11:44 PM
Ozzie shouldn't of taken out Vazquez with 1 on and 2 outs.



Ozzie only did what everybody has been screaming at him to do whenever Javy's out there. Blew up in our faces this time, tho.:angry:

kitekrazy
08-25-2006, 11:45 PM
Morneau would have caught that, probably. Still, he may not have. That was not the way to end a game.

Stop acting like Cub fans. This game was over in the 6th. That inning sucked the life out of the offense.

Jerko
08-25-2006, 11:45 PM
Taking javy out was the right move, but it was WAAAAAAAAAY too early for the old one pitcher per batter crap. Cotts shouldn't sniff this series.

bigsqwert
08-25-2006, 11:45 PM
Man, Javy pitched great, and then in a blink of an eye it got ugly. You can copy and paste that statement after every Vazquez game.

Senerch23
08-25-2006, 11:45 PM
I can't believe how Minnesota has absolutely owned this team for the past 6 years now, except for 2005.

A. Cavatica
08-25-2006, 11:45 PM
Let's look at the bright side. If Radke's done for the season, the Twins bullpen is going to wear out quickly.

102605
08-25-2006, 11:45 PM
Way to go Riske, Cotts, Macdougal.

Ozzie shouldn't of taken out Vazquez with 1 on and 2 outs.

We needed this.

Oh please. Can you imagine the same flames from users here if Vazquez stayed in and he happened to give up those runs?

MrX
08-25-2006, 11:46 PM
Ozzie only did what everybody has been screaming at him to do whenever Javy's out there. Blew up in our faces this time, tho.:angry:
I guess it's progress. The only problem is he brought in the one pitcher on the staff that is worse than Vazquez.

russ99
08-25-2006, 11:46 PM
You don't want to see it, either.

Just wiped it off the DVR. I'd burn it too if I could.

4 putrid quarters of crappy Bear offense would have been better than this.
I just hope the guys get good and mad like the rest of us and make that assclown pay tomorrow.

For those who didn't see it, with 2 outs in the 9th, a fan interfered with a fly down the first base line and Dye was called out because of the interference with Podsednik on 2nd.

hi im skot
08-25-2006, 11:46 PM
I can't believe how Minnesota has absolutely owned this team for the past 6 years now, except for 2005.

Believe it.

This team just can't get it done.

DickAllen72
08-25-2006, 11:46 PM
Cora needs to stop waving everyone home when there's less than 2 outs...

Yeah, he killed that rally.

BTW Cotts sucks.

NoShoesJoe
08-25-2006, 11:46 PM
Ozzie only did what everybody has been screaming at him to do whenever Javy's out there. Blew up in our faces this time, tho.:angry:

So true! Can't blame Javy - he gave a HR to Punto for God's sake 1st of the year. He HAD to come out, given his track record.

kitekrazy
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
**** that. it's always something with this lame ass team. when are they going to get it together?

At a golf outing in early Oct.

Timmy D's
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
I'm sooooo pizzed I can hardly think!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: 1st I get caught in a massive storm out in Rockford this afternoon while traavelin' for work. Got home so late I couldnt possibly make the game. I give the tix to a friend at last minute, and find out Exchange cant email them, because it is inside of 2 hours, so tix get eaten after I get this guys hopes up I gave him tix, and the only thing that got me through the week was going tonight. Fine, I watch from home, and then this. Why is Mack playing?????!!!! Why is Joey wavin' peeps home like we get 5 outs????? I'm just disgusted right now. I hope Santana comes down w/ the flu, cause we must win tomorrow night, MUST win!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

eurotrash35
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
Stop acting like Cub fans. This game was over in the 6th. That inning sucked the life out of the offense.

that's a joke. I'm tired of people making excuses for the offense. they need to pull their pants up.

A. Cavatica
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
I can't believe how Minnesota has absolutely owned this team for the past 6 years now, except for 2005.

Yeah, I thought we'd gotten the monkey off our backs. Is it too soon to start sweating about our next West Coast trip?

joebro25
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
I guess it's progress. The only problem is he brought in the one pitcher on the staff that is worse than Vazquez.

I loved when he came in and they show the stat how Morneau is 4 for 9 lifetime against him with an hr. Great call Ozzie.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
The last time I criticized Cotts, the whole world turned against me in here, but I just don't get why we keep putting him in, unless we are trying to eat up innings in a game out of reach. He has the most deceptive ERA in the majors, since inherited runners don't count against him. I wish he would turn it around, but it is a little late to wish for that. Of course, Riske is the guy who gave up the bomb and then there is Javy again with a 6th innng melt down. McCarthy has pitched like 2 innings in the last 10 days. He is not perfect either, but I think it would have been easier to take if he had give up the lead vs. the 6th inning combo we threw out there. I love Oz, but don't get what he is doing at all this season. We absolutely have to come out and beat Santanna tomorrow, instead of cowering against him like a scared child. He is due to have a bad game isn't he?

DickAllen72
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
I guess it's progress. The only problem is he brought in the one pitcher on the staff that is worse than Vazquez.

Bingo!

bigsqwert
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
This might have been the worst in-game managing I've ever seen by Ozzie. Absolutely brutal.

NoShoesJoe
08-25-2006, 11:47 PM
But Neal Cotts, didn't help things tonight! :angry:

I've had it with him, he just sucks.

and thanks Alex for taking the 3rd strike.

Tragg
08-25-2006, 11:48 PM
I blame VAsquz as much as the bullpen....this $12 million dollar headcase can't get out of the 6th inning? Middle relievers are middle relievers.
And not suprisingly, the one of the 2 relievers with real talent, McCarthy, isn't asked to pitch meaningful innings.
Did Ozzie really pinch hit Cintron for Iguichi? A Cintron pinch hits for a hitter who has far more power, hitting skill and batting eye? Has he lost his mind?

cheezheadsoxfan
08-25-2006, 11:48 PM
I guess it's progress. The only problem is he brought in the one pitcher on the staff that is worse than Vazquez.

True.:mad:

hi im skot
08-25-2006, 11:48 PM
The last time I criticized Cotts, the whole world turned against me in here, but I just don't get why we keep putting him in, unless we are trying to eat up innings in a game out of reach. He has the most deceptive ERA in the majors, since inherited runners don't count against him. I wish he would turn it around, but it is a little late to wish for that. Of course, Riske is the guy who gave up the bomb and then there is Javy again with a 6th innng melt down. McCarthy has pitched like 2 innings in the last 10 days. He is not perfect either, but I think it would have been easier to take if he had give up the lead vs. the 6th inning combo we threw out there. I love Oz, but don't get what he is doing at all this season. We absolutely have to come out and beat Santanna tomorrow, instead of cowering against him like a scared child. He is due to have a bad game isn't he?

I didn't read anything past the first sentence, but **** Cotts.

RudyandVanceLaw
08-25-2006, 11:50 PM
This loss sucks more than the Gillispie Auto commercials.



We have to win the next two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

batmanZoSo
08-25-2006, 11:50 PM
Minnesota's the team that wants it more right now, they have our number. We may have seen the last of Radke though...ever.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-25-2006, 11:50 PM
Yeah, he killed that rally.

BTW Cotts sucks.

Right on! We might want to start playing/managing like we need to win. Maybe I am blaming too much on the Sox and not giving enough credit to the other team though. This sure is a bitter pill to swallow tonight. Got to win the next two and the four after that, for that matter.

NDSox12
08-25-2006, 11:50 PM
I don't even know what to say about this one. If I were the manager, I would have done things exactly the way Ozzie did. We all know Vazquez's struggles in the 6th. He almost had to go to Cotts against the lefty. It was too early to bring in Thornton. Unfortunately, the bullpen sucked tonight. I will not place the blame on MacDougal though. The Twins scratched out a run against him, but it was not due to bad pitching.

We need Contreras to step it up big time tomorrow!

A. Cavatica
08-25-2006, 11:50 PM
We have to win the next eight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fixed it for you.

Bill Naharodny
08-25-2006, 11:50 PM
Baloney. Vazquez sucks. We were all screaming for Ozzie to get him out of there at the time.

The inability of Mr. $11 million a year to get through the sixth inning continues to cost us.

Amen. Memo to Guillen and Cooper: He's not going to turn the corner.

There's absolutely no reason that McCarthy shouldn't be starting. And, yes, he can be stretched out. If Contreras threw his back out tomorrow or Buehrle got hurt on Sunday, you know that McCarthy's behind would take their turn in the rotation. You can bet they'd figure a way to get him ready. (In fact, if he came in now, he'd only have to pitch about 4 or 5 innings the first time out, then put in Vaz for 2. And then Mac wouldn't pitch for 4 days. I think he'd be able to get ready.)

I think there's a feeling of doom every time Vazquez goes out there. There certainly is when he goes out for the 6th. And there really, certainly (wow) is once something happens in the inning.

It's self-defeating. It saps our team of energy. Time and again, his spot in the rotation has halted a winning streak and robbed this team of momentum.

He is a colossal failure, and this team's marriage to this guy this year is beyond costly.

SoxSpeed22
08-25-2006, 11:50 PM
We may have seen the last of Radke though...ever.Can't say that saddens me.

kitekrazy
08-25-2006, 11:51 PM
It was legit, I can assure you. Morneau had it right in his breadbasket and the fan swatted it out. All signs pointed to him catching it and frankly I think the fan did the right thing in that particular instance. There's a good chance they don't make that call and we end up winning a "controversial" game. But we didn't because the bullpen ****ed it up.
Well since the Sox don't help themsleves, the fan thought he better try something.

hi im skot
08-25-2006, 11:51 PM
It's really difficult to not be all doom and gloom after a performance like that.

If the team considers playing like that acceptable, enjoy watching the playoffs from home, guys.

Procol Harum
08-25-2006, 11:51 PM
Yep, I was happy when Ozzie went out and nabbed Vasquez even though there were two outs...and then I saw that he was bringing in Cotts and I knew we were screwed.

Minnesota owns us and their franchise arrow is only gonna continue to go up with the team that they have on hand now.

russ99
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
Minnesota's the team that wants it more right now

Ain't that the sad truth. If the Sox keep believing they'll coast into the playoffs, they might as well book the tee times for October 4th already.

spiffie
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
I blame VAsquz as much as the bullpen....this $12 million dollar headcase can't get out of the 6th inning? Middle relievers are middle relievers.
But he has great stuff. Just wait until Coop turns him around!

JB98
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
I blame VAsquz as much as the bullpen....this $12 million dollar headcase can't get out of the 6th inning? Middle relievers are middle relievers.

Bingo. I'm tired of the Vazquez apologists who think he is the next Jose Contreras.

batmanZoSo
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
Well since the Sox don't help themsleves, than fan they he better try something.

What?

0o0o0
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
Ozzie shouldn't of taken out Vazquez with 1 on and 2 outs.

Bull****! Then there would be bitching about leaving him in if they scored a couple more of him.

Twins don't look like they're phased by the Sox one bit. Just imagine if they had Liriano right now.

The Sox really, really, really needed this game to make a statement. Well the wrong team made the statement tonight.

Oh yeah, why the **** is Cotts on this team?!

eurotrash35
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
I hate to say it, but all that crap we heard about ozzie last year that I ignored is starting to ring true. sometimes this guy's decision making just leaves me dumbfounded. check that, it's not sometimes anymore. it's on a daily basis. now that we've somehow lost the rainbow that was stuck up our ass for the past year it's starting to become more and more clear that even winning a division title soon is going to be tough.

Jerko
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
I see the 3 Tys (Punto, Tyner, Bartlett) all had hits again tonight. Did all THREE of those guys hit their first homers of the year at the Cell???? in the past 2 trips in????????? I hope there's nobody left on that team with no homers; if there is, he'll hit the game winner tomorrow. Quit playing scared of these twerpy ****s. My goal besides winning the next 2 games are to go ONE GAME where one of those clowns goes hitless.

chidonez
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
So, why is it again that we can't pitch Thornton another inning?

PeoriaSoxFan
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
I didn't read anything past the first sentence, but **** Cotts.

It sure would have been nice to see Thornton and MacDougal in that critical situation, but it is easy for me to 2nd guess. The thing is we have had so many second guess opportunities this year. What happened to Dr. Cooper turning pitchers around?

cheezheadsoxfan
08-25-2006, 11:52 PM
And not suprisingly, the one of the 2 relievers with real talent, McCarthy, isn't asked to pitch meaningful innings.


Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I saw McCarthy. What's up with that?:?:

QCIASOXFAN
08-25-2006, 11:53 PM
Wow, just got home and could not watch the game because it was on WCIU and had no idea what happened. I don't feel so mad about not being able to see the game now. Lets get'em tomorrow.

chidonez
08-25-2006, 11:53 PM
I hate to say it, but all that crap we heard about ozzie last year that I ignored is starting to ring true. sometimes this guy's decision making just leaves me dumbfounded. check that, it's not sometimes anymore. it's on a daily basis. now that we've somehow lost the rainbow that was stuck up our ass for the past year it's starting to become more and more clear that even winning a division title soon is going to be tough.

Whatever...

Kub_Killer_15
08-25-2006, 11:53 PM
I'm sooooo pizzed I can hardly think!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: 1st I get caught in a massive storm out in Rockford (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/) this afternoon while traavelin' for work. Got home so late I couldnt possibly make the game.

ya if you think that is bad I got locked out of my house in that storm for 2 hours waiting for my parents to get home NON STOP HELL!

JB98
08-25-2006, 11:53 PM
Amen. Memo to Guillen and Cooper: He's not going to turn the corner.

There's absolutely no reason that McCarthy shouldn't be starting. And, yes, he can be stretched out. If Contreras threw his back out tomorrow or Buehrle got hurt on Sunday, you know that McCarthy's behind would take their turn in the rotation. You can bet they'd figure a way to get him ready. (In fact, if he came in now, he'd only have to pitch about 4 or 5 innings the first time out, then put in Vaz for 2. And then Mac wouldn't pitch for 4 days. I think he'd be able to get ready.)

I think there's a feeling of doom every time Vazquez goes out there. There certainly is when he goes out for the 6th. And there really, certainly (wow) is once something happens in the inning.

It's self-defeating. It saps our team of energy. Time and again, his spot in the rotation has halted a winning streak and robbed this team of momentum.

He is a colossal failure, and this team's marriage to this guy this year is beyond costly.

If we were at the bar, I'd buy you a beer. Great post.

beckett21
08-25-2006, 11:54 PM
Unbelievable.

This one hurts.

DickAllen72
08-25-2006, 11:54 PM
Bingo. I'm tired of the Vazquez apologists who think he is the next Jose Contreras.

Vazquez wouldn't even make a good pimple on Contreras' ass.

batmanZoSo
08-25-2006, 11:54 PM
Ain't that the sad truth. If the Sox keep believing they'll coast into the playoffs, they might as well book the tee times for October 4th already.

Easy there big guy. Radke's hurt and there's a lot of baseball left to be played. And a lot of time for the BS to stop and for things to start averaging out in our favor. I believe Buehrle and Contreras will get it together and in a big way. And this team has a streak left in them where everything clicks. Don't put the revolvers in your mouths just yet.

Bill Naharodny
08-25-2006, 11:54 PM
It sure would have been nice to see Thornton and MacDougal in that critical situation, but it is easy for me to 2nd guess. The thing is we have had so many second guess opportunities this year. What happened to Dr. Cooper turning pitchers around?

Coop will fix it.

chidonez
08-25-2006, 11:55 PM
I can't wait to hear how desperate people are on SCR tonight.

hi im skot
08-25-2006, 11:55 PM
Unbelievable.

This one hurts.

I know I said this earlier in the thread, but is it ridiculous to call this the biggest loss of the year?

FielderJones
08-25-2006, 11:55 PM
Ozzie shouldn't of taken out Vazquez with 1 on and 2 outs.


You've got to be kidding. Ozzie should have taken Vazquez out as soon as Punto's homer hit the ground.

JB98
08-25-2006, 11:55 PM
I know I said this earlier in the thread, but is it ridiculous to call this the biggest loss of the year?

Not at all. Let's hope it remains the biggest loss of the year.

SoxSpeed22
08-25-2006, 11:56 PM
I know I said this earlier in the thread, but is it ridiculous to call this the biggest loss of the year?I would say, it's not. Unless a worse one shows up later.

Madvora
08-25-2006, 11:57 PM
We better have a 4 game wild card lead on September 29 because our last 3 games are against Minnesota and I have absolutely no confidence that the Sox will ever beat the Twins again.

A. Cavatica
08-25-2006, 11:57 PM
I don't even know what to say about this one. If I were the manager, I would have done things exactly the way Ozzie did. We all know Vazquez's struggles in the 6th. He almost had to go to Cotts against the lefty. It was too early to bring in Thornton.

I probably would've done the same. It was better to pull Vaz too soon than too late, and the knee jerk move is to go lefty on lefty. And I would've pulled Cotts after he gave up the hit, and there was no reason to think Riske would give up a home run to Hunter. Two on, two out is pretty routine.

I really hate the idea that it's ever too early to bring in one of your better relief pitchers in a tight situation. (Runs scored in the sixth count the same as runs scored in the ninth, right? What if the game gets out of hand in the sixth and you never get the chance to use Thornton/MacDougal/Jenks?) Unfortunately, the sixth didn't feel like it was going to get away like that.

seventyseven
08-25-2006, 11:57 PM
Anyone else think that Hunter knew what was coming on the first pitch from Riske? That was a tight slider off the outside corner he hit out.

IronFisk
08-25-2006, 11:57 PM
OOOOH that HURTS!!!

Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory!

Should have KEPT Vasquez IN. Dear Lord, there were TWO outs! He had been throwing a great game! And...

Cintron from IGUCHI? ***!?!?! Why not Cintron for Machoviack? Talk about a huge brain fart! Ozzie has KILLED us with this righty/lefty obsession!

Tragg
08-25-2006, 11:58 PM
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I saw McCarthy. What's up with that?:?:

I don't know...but Ozzie is steadfast in his refusal to start him or pitch him in clutch innings, unless forced by attrition. (he went on a public rant about how he wasn't going to start him).


And I still dont' see Cintron as a pinch hitter.

eurotrash35
08-25-2006, 11:58 PM
Not at all. Let's hope it remains the biggest loss of the year.

I don't see how it will get worse. If we keep losing this will be the game we point to, just like every other late loss to the twins in previous years.

Bill Naharodny
08-25-2006, 11:58 PM
If we were at the bar, I'd buy you a beer. Great post.

Thanks much. How about I just open a beer here and you open one there? Rinse. Lather. Repeat. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

Must purge game from memory.

MrX
08-25-2006, 11:58 PM
Wow, just got home and could not watch the game because it was on WCIU and had no idea what happened. I don't feel so mad about not being able to see the game now. Lets get'em tomorrow.
Be thankful. I haven't been this pissed off about a loss in a long time.

I just can't wrap my head around how you can bring in Cotts to face Morneau when he can't get mediocre left handed batters out. Add that to the fact that you are facing the one pitcher who completely owns you tomorrow night and this game is a must win.

JB98
08-25-2006, 11:59 PM
OOOOH that HURTS!!!

Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory!

Should have KEPT Vasquez IN. Dear Lord, there were TWO outs! He had been throwing a great game! And...

Cintron from IGUCHI? ***!?!?! Why not Cintron for Machoviack? Talk about a huge brain fart! Ozzie has KILLED us with this righty/lefty obsession!

Since when has Vazquez ever done the job, even with two outs in an inning? He hasn't earned the right to pitch out of jam in the middle innings.

Jjav829
08-26-2006, 12:00 AM
You've got to be kidding. Ozzie should have taken Vazquez out as soon as Punto's homer hit the ground.

He should have been taken out after the 5th. How many times do we have to see the same thing? Vazquez pitches well through 5 so Ozzie lets him go back out there for the 6th, pushing the limit and thinking that this time will be different. And it never is. So Vazquez goes out and gives up a run or two and puts runners on base. Then Ozzie finally takes him out after the lead has been cut and the tying/winning runs are on base or at the plate, only to have the reliever not be able to strand those runners.

Here's an idea. If Vazquez gets through 5 innings next time without blowing up, and it's a close game (for Vazquez, that means 7 runs or less), get him out of there! Ozzie will have even less of an excuse next time around because rosters expand the day after Vazquez's next start, meaning we'll have more bullpen arms. I don't care if it wears out our pen a bit more. At this point, we need every win we can get.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-26-2006, 12:00 AM
I know I said this earlier in the thread, but is it ridiculous to call this the biggest loss of the year?

I just hope we are talking about the biggest win of the year tomorrow. I realized over the last few weeks that I hate the Twins more than anyone. They are the team that you wouldn't think could beat anyone that always seems to dominate us (6-1 vs Sox in last 7), with the exception of last year.

JB98
08-26-2006, 12:00 AM
Thanks much. How about I just open a beer here and you open one there? Rinse. Lather. Repeat. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

Must purge game from memory.

I'm at work right now. You'll have to drink for me.

eurotrash35
08-26-2006, 12:00 AM
I probably would've done the same. It was better to pull Vaz too soon than too late, and the knee jerk move is to go lefty on lefty. And I would've pulled Cotts after he gave up the hit, and there was no reason to think Riske would give up a home run to Hunter. Two on, two out is pretty routine.

I really hate the idea that it's ever too early to bring in one of your better relief pitchers in a tight situation. (Runs scored in the sixth count the same as runs scored in the ninth, right? What if the game gets out of hand in the sixth and you never get the chance to use Thornton/MacDougal/Jenks?) Unfortunately, the sixth didn't feel like it was going to get away like that.

the knee jerk move should be to keep your worst arm in the pen fetching sunflower seeds for man soo, not prolonging the inning after your pitiful starter turns in his best performance in weeks.

beckett21
08-26-2006, 12:00 AM
I know I said this earlier in the thread, but is it ridiculous to call this the biggest loss of the year?

No.

The deeper we get into the season, the harder it is to make up ground. They all count the same in the standings, but the Sox margin of error is decreasing by the day.

There is still a lot of time left, but this one was gift-wrapped and given away.

CosmRoksTHHP
08-26-2006, 12:01 AM
Tonight sucked ass, of course. Im enraged right now like the rest of you.
But Radke is probably gonna be out for the year, and were going to have a chance to seal our own fate the last weekend of the year if worse comes to worse.
Funny things happen in baseball, Santana is not perfect and Jose is due for a really solid outing. we still have a chance to grab an unexpected W tomorrow, you all know baseballs funny like that.
Of course id like to see the Sox run right through the twins but were gonna need some help along the way cus we cant beat them head to head right now.
Grady Sizemores flyball in the sun,anyone?

hi im skot
08-26-2006, 12:01 AM
Since when has Vazquez ever done the job, even with two outs in an inning? He hasn't earned the right to pitch out of jam in the middle innings.

And I'm sure we'll all agree that he hasn't earned his $11 million paycheck, either...

Man, this was just demeaning...

NoShoesJoe
08-26-2006, 12:01 AM
Easy there big guy. Radke's hurt and there's a lot of baseball left to be played. And a lot of time for the BS to stop and for things to start averaging out in our favor. I believe Buehrle and Contreras will get it together and in a big way. And this team has a streak left in them where everything clicks. Don't put the revolvers in your mouths just yet.

I'm sorry to say, but I can't endorse blind faith. If they lose against Santana tomorrow, it's an uphill climb for the rest of the season! MIN plays a 3 game series against KC at home while the Sox play TB (who have played the Sox tough this year). Who's to say?

hi im skot
08-26-2006, 12:01 AM
No.

The deeper we get into the season, the harder it is to make up ground. They all count the same in the standings, but the Sox margin of error is decreasing by the day.

There is still a lot of time left, but this one was gift-wrapped and given away.

Exactly.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:01 AM
Here's an idea. If Vazquez gets through 5 innings next time without blowing up, and it's a close game (for Vazquez, that means 7 runs or less), get him out of there!

Well, I've officially laughed once since the game ended. Thank you.

infohawk
08-26-2006, 12:02 AM
The Twins always seem to do just enough to win. That's a good team. Torii Hunter is a winner.
Yep. I've got to hand it to the Twins organization. The key to their consistent success over the past few years has been their ability to continue to run excellent pitching out to the mound year in and year out. Yeah, Santana and Liriano are pretty special pitchers, but when was the last time the Twins have had "bullpen issues?" It's been years. I don't think they have ever been a really good offensive team, just o.k., but their pitchers keep runs off the board with the best of them. Their offense just looks like it always comes through because they only need to scratch out a run or two to win a game because their 'pen shuts other teams down. Their bullpen is good (raw ability) and consistent whereas right now ours is just good but hiccups every now and then (usually at the most inopportune times).

CLR01
08-26-2006, 12:02 AM
Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time I saw McCarthy. What's up with that?:?:


Who knows. He last pitched on the 22nd, before that on the 16th. Either he is hurt or he's in Ozzies dog house for something. Given that the Sox are now finishing up a 24 games in 24 days run there better be a good reason he hasn't been used other than 'not being able to find the right matchups".

NoShoesJoe
08-26-2006, 12:03 AM
Tonight sucked ass, of course. Im enraged right now like the rest of you.
But Radke is probably gonna be out for the year, and were going to have a chance to seal our own fate the last weekend of the year if worse comes to worse.
Funny things happen in baseball, Santana is not perfect and Jose is due for a really solid outing. we still have a chance to grab an unexpected W tomorrow, you all know baseballs funny like that.
Of course id like to see the Sox run right through the twins but were gonna need some help along the way cus we cant beat them head to head right now.
Grady Sizemores flyball in the sun,anyone?

I expected the Sox to run through the Twins like a ****ing colonic, especially after yesterday and the day before. Nothing like taking the wind out of our sails, except the Twins. ****!

hi im skot
08-26-2006, 12:04 AM
Guy on 670 sounds like he's about to kill himself.

batmanZoSo
08-26-2006, 12:04 AM
I'm sorry to say, but I can't endorse blind faith. If they lose against Santana tomorrow, it's an uphill climb for the rest of the season! MIN plays a 3 game series against KC at home while the Sox play TB (who have played the Sox tough this year). Who's to say?
You seem to be able to predict the future. We didn't lose tomorrow that I'm aware and if we do, it's only an uphill climb until we get the Wild Card lead back.

102605
08-26-2006, 12:04 AM
For everyone banking on a season ending Radke injury: The Twins network reported that he did not leave the game with an injury. He told Gardenhire he did not have anything tonight so they brought the bullpen in. He should make his next start.

NDSox12
08-26-2006, 12:05 AM
Tonight sucked ass, of course. Im enraged right now like the rest of you.
But Radke is probably gonna be out for the year, and were going to have a chance to seal our own fate the last weekend of the year if worse comes to worse.
Funny things happen in baseball, Santana is not perfect and Jose is due for a really solid outing. we still have a chance to grab an unexpected W tomorrow, you all know baseballs funny like that.
Of course id like to see the Sox run right through the twins but were gonna need some help along the way cus we cant beat them head to head right now.
Grady Sizemores flyball in the sun,anyone?

What did you people hear about Radke on the Sox broadcast? On the Twins broadcast, they seemed to play it off as if the only reason he was pulled was because he "just didn't have it" tonight. Do you have any reason to believe he will be out for any extended period of time? Could be the Twins just trying to look at it through rose colored glasses. I'm just curious.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-26-2006, 12:05 AM
Who knows. He last pitched on the 22nd, before that on the 16th. Either he is hurt or he's in Ozzies dog house for something. Given that the Sox are now finishing up a 24 games in 24 days run there better be a good reason he hasn't been used other than 'not being able to find the right matchups".

It is a little odd isn't it? You almost forget he is on the team. I guess we have him around just so we can not trade him.

infohawk
08-26-2006, 12:05 AM
I'm sorry to say, but I can't endorse blind faith. If they lose against Santana tomorrow, it's an uphill climb for the rest of the season! MIN plays a 3 game series against KC at home while the Sox play TB (who have played the Sox tough this year). Who's to say? In all seriousness, I have no reason to believe that TB will be some kind of pushover for the Sox. They are one of those teams that just plays us like it's life and death. Do we have to face Kazmir during that series?

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:05 AM
I just hope we are talking about the biggest win of the year tomorrow. I realized over the last few weeks that I hate the Twins more than anyone. They are the team that you wouldn't think could beat anyone that always seems to dominate us (6-1 vs Sox in last 7), with the exception of last year.

Alright Peoria, no offense, but I think is one of the problems with us (the team and the fans) and the Twins. I think the lineup Minnesota ran out there tonight is as good as, if not better, than ours. Seriously. Go around the diamond, position by position.

It's only in the last 2 weeks that I think our team might finally be realizing that they need to take these guys seriously, Liriano or not.

eurotrash35
08-26-2006, 12:05 AM
I expected the Sox to run through the Twins like a ****ing colonic, especially after yesterday and the day before. Nothing like taking the wind out of our sails, except the Twins. ****!

eh, you could see it coming. we haven't gone on a run in an eternity. any time we win a game or god forbid two you can bet the farm on the next game being a big fat stinking L.

Jjav829
08-26-2006, 12:06 AM
In all seriousness, I have no reason to believe that TB will be somekind of pushover for the Sox. They are one of those teams that just plays us like it's life and death. Do we have to face Kazmir during that series?

Thankfully, Kazmir just went on the DL.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:06 AM
I expected the Sox to run through the Twins like a ****ing colonic, especially after yesterday and the day before. Nothing like taking the wind out of our sails, except the Twins and Vazquez ****!

Fixed that one.

eurotrash35
08-26-2006, 12:07 AM
Guy on 670 sounds like he's about to kill himself.

I'm about to join him on the bridge.

Madvora
08-26-2006, 12:07 AM
Remember the first half of the season...?
The Sox used to win games. That was great. Now we're back to 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:07 AM
eh, you could see it coming. we haven't gone on a run in an eternity. any time we win a game or god forbid two you can bet the farm on the next game being a big fat stinking L.

And who do you think starts most of those games? Take a look at the recent history.

RudyandVanceLaw
08-26-2006, 12:08 AM
Who sucked the most tonight?

a. Cora
b. Iguchi
c. Riske
d. Grossman
e. All the above

cleanwsox
08-26-2006, 12:08 AM
Thankfully, Kazmir just went on the DL.


When did this happen. I still see him schedule to start Sunday. Although if he does that, he will miss the Sox series anyways.

A. Cavatica
08-26-2006, 12:08 AM
Guys, Vazquez did not lose this game tonight. He was solid. Ozzie pulled him early, but while he was in there, he did his job.

Look to Cotts giving up a hit to the only batter he faced, Riske giving up a home run to Hunter, and the offense for not running up the score on the likes of Matt Guerrier.

Timmy D's
08-26-2006, 12:08 AM
What did you people hear about Radke on the Sox broadcast? On the Twins broadcast, they seemed to play it off as if the only reason he was pulled was because he "just didn't have it" tonight. Do you have any reason to believe he will be out for any extended period of time? Could be the Twins just trying to look at it through rose colored glasses. I'm just curious.

Radke has a torn cuff, been playin hurt most of if not all the year. Relying on location and a change up of a change up, couldnt contiunue tonight cause of pain. Hawk kizzed his azz for about 20 minutes tonight on the broadcast. hawk loves email, and Radke.

hi im skot
08-26-2006, 12:08 AM
I'm about to join him on the bridge.

I'll give it until tomorrow.

russ99
08-26-2006, 12:09 AM
Tonight sucked ass, of course. Im enraged right now like the rest of you.
But Radke is probably gonna be out for the year, and were going to have a chance to seal our own fate the last weekend of the year if worse comes to worse.
Funny things happen in baseball, Santana is not perfect and Jose is due for a really solid outing. we still have a chance to grab an unexpected W tomorrow, you all know baseballs funny like that.
Of course id like to see the Sox run right through the twins but were gonna need some help along the way cus we cant beat them head to head right now.
Grady Sizemores flyball in the sun,anyone?

The problem with this line of thinking is it's exactly what we though after the two horrible losses to the Tigers this week. No excuses or wishful thinking anymore. It's time for the Sox to get tough ot get going.

I'm personally sick of the weak response of the team to upstart challengers to their title, this team needs to step up and show some fire in the belly, or it's over.

Another frightening similarity: we look a lot like the Red Sox of last September/October right now, and look what happened to them.

hi im skot
08-26-2006, 12:09 AM
Radke has a torn cuff, been playin hurt most of if not all the year. Relying on location and a change up of a change up. Hawk kizzed his azz for about 20 minutes tonight on the broadcast. hawk loves email, and Radke.

Officially the first post-game laugh for me!

Thanks!

PeoriaSoxFan
08-26-2006, 12:09 AM
Alright Peoria, no offense, but I think is one of the problems with us (the team and the fans) and the Twins. I think the lineup Minnesota ran out there tonight is as good as, if not better, than ours. Seriously. Go around the diamond, position by position.

It's only in the last 2 weeks that I think our team might finally be realizing that they need to take these guys seriously, Liriano or not.

You are right, they have good numbers. I think I'd still take our lineup though. It just seems like they always do it with a bunch of no-name guys. They seem to save their best for us though. No matter how good they are, it just sucks to lose to them.

rookie
08-26-2006, 12:10 AM
Be thankful. I haven't been this pissed off about a loss in a long time.

I just can't wrap my head around how you can bring in Cotts to face Morneau when he can't get mediocre left handed batters out. Add that to the fact that you are facing the one pitcher who completely owns you tomorrow night and this game is a must win.

Exactly. I get tired of hearing that we are just waiting for all the parts to click (starting pitching, bullpen, offense). Early in the Tiger series our starting pitching didn't have it, but our bullpen was steady. Then today when we get a decent outing from Vasquez (he left with the lead) the bullpen can't hold it down.

Memo to the bullpen: You saw that Detriot had lost. You know that we need to beat Minnesota. Vasquez left you with only one out to get.

If we make it to the playoffs our only saving grace is that hopefully our pitching will be hot or on a streak. It's Russian Sox pitching Roulette.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-26-2006, 12:11 AM
Who sucked the most tonight?

a. Cora
b. Iguchi
c. Riske
d. Grossman
e. All the above

I'd go all of the above, but we would all be in a happy mood right now had Mr. Riske came through.

MrX
08-26-2006, 12:11 AM
hawk loves email, and Radke.
:roflmao:

It's funny because it's true

CLR01
08-26-2006, 12:11 AM
It is a little odd isn't it? You almost forget he is on the team. I guess we have him around just so we can not trade him.


Yeah. If they insist on keeping him out of games they might as well just throw him on the 15 day DL get a little flexability come playoff time.

Tragg
08-26-2006, 12:11 AM
Who sucked the most tonight?

a. Cora
b. Iguchi
c. Riske
d. Grossman
e. All the above
Did Cora screw up again? Worse than letting Alomar bat in the 9th like he did the other night?

Jjav829
08-26-2006, 12:11 AM
When did this happen. I still see him schedule to start Sunday. Although if he does that, he will miss the Sox series anyways.

Tonight. J.P. Howell was called up to replace Kazmir. Howell has an 8.36 ERA in 3 career starts against us.

TaquitoElGoocho
08-26-2006, 12:12 AM
Bless me father for I have sinned, it's been 30 minutes since I last said **********er....

A. Cavatica
08-26-2006, 12:12 AM
Damn it, the Lions are losing 21-0 and the Vikings won too.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-26-2006, 12:12 AM
What did you people hear about Radke on the Sox broadcast? On the Twins broadcast, they seemed to play it off as if the only reason he was pulled was because he "just didn't have it" tonight. Do you have any reason to believe he will be out for any extended period of time? Could be the Twins just trying to look at it through rose colored glasses. I'm just curious.

Farmio said he was "having his shoulder looked at". Also, something about the Twins not releasing it officially. Don't remember the exact wording.:?:

hi im skot
08-26-2006, 12:12 AM
Callers on 670 are PISSED.

As they should be.

infohawk
08-26-2006, 12:13 AM
I hate to say it, but all that crap we heard about ozzie last year that I ignored is starting to ring true. sometimes this guy's decision making just leaves me dumbfounded. check that, it's not sometimes anymore. it's on a daily basis. now that we've somehow lost the rainbow that was stuck up our ass for the past year it's starting to become more and more clear that even winning a division title soon is going to be tough. Whether it's right or wrong, my perception is that we have a bunch of guys (particularly the 'pen) who look pretty good and have pretty decent stats. In high leverage situations, however, they have crapped the bed this year. Take MacDougal. I'm thrilled he's on the team and think he's a pretty dominant late inning pitcher -- not trying to rip on Mike. He's been shutting everyone down lately with filthy stuff. Put him in a situation where he needs to get one more out to send a game to the bottom of the ninth tied and he gives up a hit. The big difference between this year and last year is those big, big situations. Last year we always seemed to get the big out or the big hit right when we needed it. This year we're coming up snake eyes. I mean, I absolutely KNEW MacDougal was going to give up that two-out base hit. I even told my wife as much before it happened. I "knew" because that's just the way it's gone this year. I suppose Riske is another example of a guy who has been coming through with good performances not doing so at exactly the wrong time tonight.

MrX
08-26-2006, 12:15 AM
Did Cora screw up again? Worse than letting Alomar bat in the 9th like he did the other night? He sent Gload home from second with 1 out on a play where the LF was charging the ball. He made a good throw and Gload was out and that pretty much killed any momentum the offense had.

In the next AB Pods hit a flyball that would have scored Gload if he was on third. (I know you can't assume they would have pitched Pods the same)

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:15 AM
You are right, they have good numbers. I think I'd still take our lineup though. It just seems like they always do it with a bunch of no-name guys. They seem to save their best for us though. No matter how good they are, it just sucks to lose to them.

Yep, sucks a lot. Repeatedly. For years now.

NDSox12
08-26-2006, 12:15 AM
Who sucked the most tonight?

a. Cora
b. Iguchi
c. Riske
d. Grossman
e. All the above

Wow, I didn't even realize the Bears played tonight until I saw this post. Obviously, I'm out of touch here on the east coast. But, since that game didn't count...

I'll go with C. One bad pitch, but boy was it costly.

Ol' No. 2
08-26-2006, 12:16 AM
Guys, Vazquez did not lose this game tonight. He was solid. Ozzie pulled him early, but while he was in there, he did his job.

Look to Cotts giving up a hit to the only batter he faced, Riske giving up a home run to Hunter, and the offense for not running up the score on the likes of Matt Guerrier.At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI.

RudyandVanceLaw
08-26-2006, 12:16 AM
Did Cora screw up again? Worse than letting Alomar bat in the 9th like he did the other night?
Cora was the "Wacky Windmill" tonight!

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:16 AM
Tonight. J.P. Howell was called up to replace Kazmir. Howell has an 8.36 ERA in 3 career starts against us.

Sounds like a lot of Konerko pop-ups and shoulder shrugs to me.

Jerko
08-26-2006, 12:17 AM
Nick Punto = the 3B version of Joe Mays. I thought once that Kielty, Guzman, Rivas, Manichevitz, and LeCroy left the Twins, we'd stop getting killed by their no-name losers. Watch these clowns win the division.

JB98
08-26-2006, 12:18 AM
At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI.

5 2/3 innings is a great game? For a great game, see yesterday's outing by Garland.

beckett21
08-26-2006, 12:19 AM
Nick Punto = the 3B version of Joe Mays. I thought once that Kielty, Guzman, Rivas, Manichevitz, and LeCroy left the Twins, we'd stop getting killed by their no-name losers. Watch these clowns win the division.

It really is laughable, isn't it?

Bartlett and Punto own the Sox. It has to be some sick, cruel joke.

eurotrash35
08-26-2006, 12:19 AM
At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI.

I wouldn't say a great game. he needs to get rid of the training wheels and make it into the 7th inning sometime. if he doesn't start falling apart AGAIN this thread is 2 pages max.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:19 AM
At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI.

You think the players have lots of confidence in Vazquez? Think that matters at all in sports?

Look, I'm not going postal on him because of tonight. But I'm not going to congratulate this guy for going 5 2/3 every time out, taxing the bullpen repeatedly, and doing his job about 1/2 of as well as a guy who PROVED it down the stretch last year -- including against Minnesota.

If that's typical WSI, consider me happy to be here.

Blueprint1
08-26-2006, 12:20 AM
Everything went wrong tonight. The Twins could do no wrong. Hopefully for the first time ever against the Twins we will get the breaks tomorrow. I don't want to watch us get swept on sunday. We have to beat Santana. You know it sucks we always get Santana meanwhile they don't have to face Garland.

eurotrash35
08-26-2006, 12:21 AM
Everything went wrong tonight. The Twins could do no wrong. Hopefully for the first time ever against the Twins we will get the breaks tomorrow. I don't want to watch us get swept on sunday. We have to beat Santana. You know it sucks we always get Santana meanwhile they don't have to face Garland.

I'm sorry, but I still don't think I'll ever get used to reading sentences like this.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-26-2006, 12:21 AM
At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI.

I agree. At least Javy didn't get the loss, cuz he didn't deserve it.

Patrick134
08-26-2006, 12:22 AM
At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI.


It's Vazquez's own fault he was pulled, after wasting away countless games in the 6th inning this season.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:22 AM
Everything went wrong tonight. The Twins could do no wrong. Hopefully for the first time ever against the Twins we will get the breaks tomorrow. I don't want to watch us get swept on sunday. We have to beat Santana. You know it sucks we always get Santana meanwhile they don't have to face Garland.

I agree with this. Lots of dribblers for them, a few barely foul liners for us . . .

And I'll go one step further: if we beat Santana, today will look pretty small. Beating Santana tomorrow would mean more to the Sox than losing today ever could.

Tragg
08-26-2006, 12:22 AM
Cora was the "Wacky Windmill" tonight!
At least he didn't wave 'em and then stop, then wave 'em and then stop, confusing all of the runners.

We need wave 'em wally back.

Ol' No. 2
08-26-2006, 12:22 AM
5 2/3 innings is a great game? For a great game, see yesterday's outing by Garland.Wait. Did he take HIMSELF out of the game? I must have missed that. He can only pitch as long as the manager lets him pitch, and he did a damn good job of it while he was in there. They'd have been a hell of a lot better leaving him in. But no, I guess Cotts and Riske did such a good job that they should have been brought in SOONER!:rolleyes:

infohawk
08-26-2006, 12:23 AM
We better have a 4 game wild card lead on September 29 because our last 3 games are against Minnesota and I have absolutely no confidence that the Sox will ever beat the Twins again. Last year felt so good because we handled them pretty well. This year I have the same feelings of dread that I had when we had to play them between 2001-2004. It's always the same old blueprint. The two teams play a tight game until about the 7th or 8th inning and the Twins get the key hit to go ahead and their closer shuts us down like clockwork. After each game I'm left scratching my head trying to figure out how we let the game get away because "we had them." Very rarely do the Twins pound us. They just beat us by a hangnail.

NoShoesJoe
08-26-2006, 12:25 AM
I agree with this. Lots of dribblers for them, a few barely foul liners for us . . .

And I'll go one step further: if we beat Santana, today will look pretty small. Beating Santana tomorrow would mean more to the Sox than losing today ever could.

Wow, that's almost a Cub mentality. Wait until tomorrow is almost equal to wait until next year. We pissed it away, plain and simple. This was a statement game. Not the statement we wanted to make though :mad:

eurotrash35
08-26-2006, 12:26 AM
Wait. Did he take HIMSELF out of the game? I must have missed that. He can only pitch as long as the manager lets him pitch, and he did a damn good job of it while he was in there. They'd have been a hell of a lot better leaving him in. But no, I guess Cotts and Riske did such a good job that they should have been brought in SOONER!:rolleyes:

let me guess, you're one of those guys that's always suprised when the sun rises in the morning, right?

vazquez and staying past the 6th inning does not compute. I can't believe you're even trying to argue with him.

cleanwsox
08-26-2006, 12:26 AM
Punto = Career .238 hitter in 588 at bats before this year
Bartlett = Career .233 hitter in 236 at bats before this year
Tyner = Career .261 hitter in 834 at bats before this year.



2006:

Punto = .313 in 310 at bats
Bartlett = .348 in 210 at bats
Tyner = .317 in 145 at bats



Umm... what is going on here?

Tragg
08-26-2006, 12:27 AM
At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI. He didn't get out of the 6th - that is not a great game.
I know he didn't lift himself, but he was lifted because he's been in that position before, and he burned us time and time again. Maybe tonight would have been the night he would have gotten out of the 6th...but who could take that chance?

DickAllen72
08-26-2006, 12:27 AM
Wait. Did he take HIMSELF out of the game? I must have missed that. He can only pitch as long as the manager lets him pitch, and he did a damn good job of it while he was in there.

Vazquez gave up a homer to Nick Freakin' Punto and got two outs on very hard hit balls. Given his history, it was correct to take him out.

What was dumb was putting in Cotts.

CLR01
08-26-2006, 12:28 AM
You know it sucks we always get Santana meanwhile they don't have to face Garland.


Have the Sox ever not had to face Santana in a series? They play 6 series this year and they will see him in every one of them. You figure at least once a season you will just miss him.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-26-2006, 12:28 AM
Callers on 670 are PISSED.

As they should be.

Guy was just on 670 REALLY pissed. Sat behind the bullpen and said McCarthy was hanging over the fence, itching to get into the game. Rongey is currently pretty much ripping Cotts.

Ol' No. 2
08-26-2006, 12:28 AM
let me guess, you're one of those guys that's always suprised when the sun rises in the morning, right?

vazquez and staying past the 6th inning does not compute. I can't believe you're even trying to argue with him.Why, is the number 6 unlucky?? What's next, billy goats?

Jerko
08-26-2006, 12:28 AM
Punto = Career .238 hitter in 588 at bats before this year
Bartlett = Career .233 hitter in 236 at bats before this year
Tyner = Career .261 hitter in 834 at bats before this year.



2006:

Punto = .313 in 310 at bats
Bartlett = .348 in 210 at bats
Tyner = .317 in 145 at bats



Umm... what is going on here?

Those will go down. They only play us 5 more times.

The Immigrant
08-26-2006, 12:28 AM
At last, someone with some sense. Javy pitched a great game and the bullpen blew it for him and everyone is screaming for Vazquez' hide. Typical WSI.

Nick Punto agrees with you.

buehrle4cy05
08-26-2006, 12:28 AM
*sigh*

That sucked. You know, just reiterating the other 100 posts in this thread.

Law11
08-26-2006, 12:29 AM
Wow, that's almost a Cub mentality. Wait until tomorrow is almost equal to wait until next year. We pissed it away, plain and simple. This was a statement game. Not the statement we wanted to make though :mad:


Well what the heck are we supposed to do. Not look forward to tomorrow?
We cant redo tonight's game...

If trying to keep hope by hoping for a get em tomorrow attitude is wrong then
get off the ship cause I guess tonight means the season is over.

FielderJones
08-26-2006, 12:29 AM
Wait. Did he take HIMSELF out of the game? I must have missed that. He can only pitch as long as the manager lets him pitch, and he did a damn good job of it while he was in there. They'd have been a hell of a lot better leaving him in. But no, I guess Cotts and Riske did such a good job that they should have been brought in SOONER!:rolleyes:

I guess the part where all the balls hit off him in the 6th inning were crushed as usual doesn't play a part in Ozzie's decision? Please. :rolleyes: That has been classic Vazquez for months now.

Why McCarthy wasn't brought in to clean up the usual Vazquez 6th inning mess is beyond me. The one guy in the pen who can go four innings gets to sit. :angry:

JB98
08-26-2006, 12:30 AM
Have the Sox ever not had to face Santana in a series? They play 6 series this year and they will see him in every one of them. You figure at least once a season you will just miss him.

Gardenhire sets his rotation to make sure Santana faces us, which is what a good manager does. He knows we're the team he's got to beat, and he makes sure Johan is ready to pitch.

Last year, he made Radke his opening-day starter, just so Santana's turn would come up in the finale of a three-game set with the Sox the second week of the season.

infohawk
08-26-2006, 12:30 AM
Guys, Vazquez did not lose this game tonight. He was solid. Ozzie pulled him early, but while he was in there, he did his job.

Look to Cotts giving up a hit to the only batter he faced, Riske giving up a home run to Hunter, and the offense for not running up the score on the likes of Matt Guerrier.
This may be totally unfair, and I appreciate these guys for everything they did last year, but anymore I think that not playing Podsednik and not pitching Cotts would be addition by subtraction. I'm not saying that I'm done with either of them, but this is just not their year. Color me crazy, but I just have this feeling that letting Mackowiak bat lead-off and avoiding Cotts at all costs would help facilitate much better baseball. Pods has been an absolute out-machine at a critical spot in the order and Cotts peformances seem to have a deflating effect on the team. I'm sorry if I'm being irrational.:(:

Tragg
08-26-2006, 12:31 AM
Wait. Did he take HIMSELF out of the game? I must have missed that. He can only pitch as long as the manager lets him pitch, and he did a damn good job of it while he was in there. They'd have been a hell of a lot better leaving him in. But no, I guess Cotts and Riske did such a good job that they should have been brought in SOONER!:rolleyes:
He effectively did take himself out by imploding in similar sitautions all seson long, forcing Ozzie to take him out this time.
And good gracious he makes 3 times as much as the aggregate total of the 4 relievers who relieved him, so, indeed, he should be held to a higher standard.

FielderJones
08-26-2006, 12:31 AM
2006:

Punto = .313 in 310 at bats
Bartlett = .348 in 210 at bats
Tyner = .317 in 145 at bats

Umm... what is going on here?


The Twins are stealing signs. :redneck

Blueprint1
08-26-2006, 12:32 AM
let me guess, you're one of those guys that's always suprised when the sun rises in the morning, right?

vazquez and staying past the 6th inning does not compute. I can't believe you're even trying to argue with him.

Go away you only come around when we lose. Go back to the hole you have been in since 2004

Law11
08-26-2006, 12:32 AM
I guess the part where all the balls hit off him in the 6th inning were crushed as usual doesn't play a part in Ozzie's decision? Please. :rolleyes: That has been classic Vazquez for months now.

Why McCarthy wasn't brought in to clean up the usual Vazquez 6th inning mess is beyond me. The one guy in the pen who can go four innings gets to sit. :angry:

I havent read all the posts wasnt Morneau like 4 for 9 going into the AB with Cotts? Maybe I'm missing something but seems a bit risky.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-26-2006, 12:33 AM
Why, is the number 6 unlucky?? What's next, billy goats?

There's my first laugh since the game ended.

Deebs14
08-26-2006, 12:34 AM
In such a bad mood right now...tonight's game was very crucial especially with Santana going tomorrow. :mad:

This game was ours! :angry:

batmanZoSo
08-26-2006, 12:34 AM
Why, is the number 6 unlucky?? What's next, billy goats?

And t-shirts with the "fan that cost us the wild card lead."

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:34 AM
Wow, that's almost a Cub mentality. Wait until tomorrow is almost equal to wait until next year. We pissed it away, plain and simple. This was a statement game. Not the statement we wanted to make though :mad:

Whoa, Cub mentality -- those are fighting words. Hey, I'm on record as saying this was bad. All I'm saying is, we've said lots of stuff has been bad and great ("I think we're turning it around") over and over this year. Tomorrow's a big one.

hi im skot
08-26-2006, 12:34 AM
Guy was just on 670 REALLY pissed. Sat behind the bullpen and said McCarthy was hanging over the fence, itching to get into the game. Rongey is currently pretty much ripping Cotts.

I heard that.

A couple dudes sounded like they were on the brink of a complete breakdown.

Again, can't say I blame them...

Timmy D's
08-26-2006, 12:34 AM
He effectively did take himself out by imploding in similar sitautions all seson long, forcing Ozzie to take him out this time.
And good gracious he makes 3 times as much as the aggregate total of the 4 relievers who relieved him, so, indeed, he should be held to a higher standard.

Correctamundo!!! He has proven he needs a short leash, and voila~ that's what he got. He pitches great to 5 1/3 or so, and then kabloooeeeyyy!! I agree w/ yankin him based on his track record thus far.

Man I just cant get over this loss no matter how much I vent!!!:angry: :angry:

Jerko
08-26-2006, 12:36 AM
Sometimes I think the Sox are so worried about "facing Santana tomorrow", they suffer for it in games like tonight. I never saw a team with a 3-0 lead play so tense (aka "not to lose") so early. THREE pitchers to three batters in the SIXTH INNING??????? Way too early for that crap.

buehrle4cy05
08-26-2006, 12:36 AM
The Twins are stealing signs. :redneck

Steroids.

cleanwsox
08-26-2006, 12:36 AM
This game was ours! :angry:


Yah, it hurts seeing that with Radke out and a 3 run lead... you can't close them out. Letting Guerrier shut us down for 3 innings really hurt, adding a couple runs in those innings would have made it a totally different game.

Arghh, we need Jose of late 05 early 06 tomorrow or this could get even uglier.

NoShoesJoe
08-26-2006, 12:37 AM
Well what the heck are we supposed to do. Not look forward to tomorrow?
We cant redo tonight's game...

If trying to keep hope by hoping for a get em tomorrow attitude is wrong then
get off the ship cause I guess tonight means the season is over.

No, I don't think the season is over, although I think that if they have the momentum, they conceivably sweep KC at the dome. We have TB - who play us tough. I'm not looking forward to going 1-2 this series. We, can be 3.5 or so back in the WC after TB! Don't flame me, I'm an optimist, I'm just saying that the ALC is getting tight...now's the time to strike hard. That includes winning the series against the Twins.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-26-2006, 12:38 AM
Man I just cant get over this loss no matter how much I vent!!!:angry: :angry:

Same here. And for this I missed Bill Maher's first show of the season.:whiner:

infohawk
08-26-2006, 12:38 AM
Punto = Career .238 hitter in 588 at bats before this year
Bartlett = Career .233 hitter in 236 at bats before this year
Tyner = Career .261 hitter in 834 at bats before this year.



2006:

Punto = .313 in 310 at bats
Bartlett = .348 in 210 at bats
Tyner = .317 in 145 at bats



Umm... what is going on here?
It's called a "hot streak." It's a legitimate question though, considering that we wouldn't know what one looked like. Seriously, those numbers may be the Twins undoing insofar as they have been somewhat hot and could conceivably revert toward their career numbers in September. I wouldn't count on it, but a Twins fade is not out of the question.

FJA
08-26-2006, 12:38 AM
Why McCarthy wasn't brought in to clean up the usual Vazquez 6th inning mess is beyond me. The one guy in the pen who can go four innings gets to sit. :angry:

It seems like Ozzie always brings in Cotts to clean up Vasquez's mess, and it always backfires. I was at the Sunday game in Baltimore, and, when Ozzie took out Vasquez and brought in Cotts, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "these men on base will score, Cotts will allow another one or two, and then, after he finally gets the third out, he will return to the dugout and throw a tantrum by either slamming his glove against the wall or throwing a Gatorade cup."

Needless to say, like clockwork, all of that happened, and it continues to happen each time Ozzie trots out Cotts in a situation that requires even a little mental toughness.

BeviBall!
08-26-2006, 12:40 AM
Ozzie only did what everybody has been screaming at him to do whenever Javy's out there.

Javy should've been lifted after giving up Punto's first HR of the season. I don't care how well he's pitched... the first baserunner/run in the 6th, he's gone. Ozzie managed terribly and Cora pulled a Cora.

Cotts can't get lefties out. Gooch is as clutch as we've had in the late innings this year, and he PHs Cintron. Absolutely head-scratching moves tonight, in the biggest game of the year to date.

Back to Cora, you have the pitcher on the ropes with Pods up, whose been great at getting the runner in from third. Instead, you run yourself out of a big inning... again. Then Pods flies out to CF which was deep enough for a sac fly. God dammit this hurts.

NoShoesJoe
08-26-2006, 12:40 AM
It seems like Ozzie always brings in Cotts to clean up Vasquez's mess, and it always backfires. I was at the Sunday game in Baltimore, and, when Ozzie took out Vasquez and brought in Cotts, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "these men on base will score, Cotts will allow another one or two, and then, after he finally gets the third out, he will return to the dugout and throw a tantrum by either slamming his glove against the wall or throwing a Gatorade cup."

Needless to say, like clockwork, all of that happened, and it continues to happen each time Ozzie trots out Cotts in a situation that requires even a little mental toughness.

So sick of the Cotts discussion. He sucks, let's move on. He should be playing Parcheesi with Politte by now....

JB98
08-26-2006, 12:44 AM
Javy should've been lifted after giving up Punto's first HR of the season. I don't care how well he's pitched... the first baserunner/run in the 6th, he's gone. Ozzie managed terribly and Cora pulled a Cora.

Cotts can't get lefties out. Gooch is as clutch as we've had in the late innings this year, and he PHs Cintron. Absolutely head-scratching moves tonight, in the biggest game of the year to date.

Back to Cora, you have the pitcher on the ropes with Pods up, whose been great at getting the runner in from third. Instead, you run yourself out of a big inning... again. Then Pods flies out to CF which was deep enough for a sac fly. God dammit this hurts.

I didn't understand the Cintron move either. Alex took a hanging breaking ball right down the middle for strike three. Head-scratching move, head-scratching approach by Cintron.

Does Ozzie not have faith in Iguchi? I do.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 12:46 AM
Punto = Career .238 hitter in 588 at bats before this year
Bartlett = Career .233 hitter in 236 at bats before this year
Tyner = Career .261 hitter in 834 at bats before this year.



2006:

Punto = .313 in 310 at bats
Bartlett = .348 in 210 at bats
Tyner = .317 in 145 at bats



Umm... what is going on here?

Those aren't a ton of career at bats for those guys. While I do think the avg's will drop some, it IS possible that they just improved their hitting.

BeviBall!
08-26-2006, 12:47 AM
I didn't understand the Cintron move either. Alex took a hanging breaking ball right down the middle for strike three. Head-scratching move, head-scratching approach by Cintron.

Does Ozzie not have faith in Iguchi? I do.

I was there tonight and our whole section just stood, mouths agape when Alex walked up. It's the whole lefty/righty thing again. The same thing we'll see tomorrow when the lineup card is passed to the umps.

digdagdug23
08-26-2006, 12:48 AM
Wait. Did he take HIMSELF out of the game? I must have missed that. He can only pitch as long as the manager lets him pitch, and he did a damn good job of it while he was in there. They'd have been a hell of a lot better leaving him in. But no, I guess Cotts and Riske did such a good job that they should have been brought in SOONER!:rolleyes:

I have this habit of reading every post before I post any replies. I don't like to stomp all over the rest of the posts repeating the same blather someone else said 5 pages back. So, I am reading the posts, and was amazed by the number that have actually been blaming Vazquez for this one. He gave up one run, big whoop-de-doo. Had Ozzie left him in, they might have scored one more run, and that was the end of the inning. It was Ozzie's over-managing, trying to look really smart, and bringing in that piece of CRAP Cotts. I didn't have a problem with Javie staying in the game, he had ONE BAD PITCH, nothing more. He had pitched pretty solidly for 5 and so many innings, and had not given reason to be yanked. It's not like he put runners on 2 bags and floated a ball to Torii. Cotts was the deal breaker here, Hunter just happened to guess right on the pitch selection and jacked it.

I don't understand the micro-managing crap that goes on in Ozzie's head. Someone else already said it, but I feel the need to reiterate, if we were absolutely NOT going to deal McCarthy at the deadline, based on his talent, then why haven't we seen him in what seems like DECADES????

I have not given up on this team, and I will follow them to hell if I need to, but this is insanity for insanity's sake. So many of the things that happen make no sense, and we can't seem to gain any momentum no matter how good we were the previous day or two. This team is beginning to make me feel bi-polar.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 12:48 AM
I didn't understand the Cintron move either. Alex took a hanging breaking ball right down the middle for strike three. Head-scratching move, head-scratching approach by Cintron.

Does Ozzie not have faith in Iguchi? I do.

Lefty, righty, Ozzie. You should know by now that it doesn't matter who's batting or pitching, if it's a lefty vs righty matchup, Ozzie thinks it's a great idea. :rolleyes:

MrX
08-26-2006, 12:49 AM
I didn't understand the Cintron move either. Alex took a hanging breaking ball right down the middle for strike three. Head-scratching move, head-scratching approach by Cintron.

Does Ozzie not have faith in Iguchi? I do.
Cintron can hit from the other side of the plate, it's as simple as that. I am so sick of him playing matchups. The real question is how many more times will these moves blow up in his face before he gets it? Will he ever get it?

Ol' No. 2
08-26-2006, 12:49 AM
It seems like Ozzie always brings in Cotts to clean up Vasquez's mess, and it always backfires. I was at the Sunday game in Baltimore, and, when Ozzie took out Vasquez and brought in Cotts, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "these men on base will score, Cotts will allow another one or two, and then, after he finally gets the third out, he will return to the dugout and throw a tantrum by either slamming his glove against the wall or throwing a Gatorade cup."

Needless to say, like clockwork, all of that happened, and it continues to happen each time Ozzie trots out Cotts in a situation that requires even a little mental toughness.It's not your imagination. Vazquez has been victimized by the bullpen far more than any other starter on the staff. Here are the numbers of bequeathed runners that scored:

Contreras 8/13
Buehrle 2/10
Garcia 7/12
Vazquez 12/20
Garland 8/20

Want to know what's wrong with Vazquez? Ozzie keeps following him up with stiffs.

jenn2080
08-26-2006, 12:50 AM
I am not even mad I am just VERY VERY disappointed. I am still in amazement that it happened.

JB98
08-26-2006, 12:51 AM
It's not your imagination. Vazquez has been victimized by the bullpen far more than any other starter on the staff. Here are the numbers of bequeathed runners that scored:

Contreras 8/13
Buehrle 2/10
Garcia 7/12
Vazquez 12/20
Garland 8/20

Want to know what's wrong with Vazquez? Ozzie keeps following him up with stiffs.

That's because Javy can't get through the sixth inning. Instead of being relieved by short relievers like Thornton or MacDougal, he is relieved by middle relievers like Cotts.

ChicagoG19
08-26-2006, 12:51 AM
I don't know why but I took this loss really hard. I've been too countless whitesox games on fridays and always stayed for the fireworks. Today i couldn't.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 12:52 AM
I didn't have a problem with Javie staying in the game, he had ONE BAD PITCH, nothing more. He had pitched pretty solidly for 5 and so many innings, and had not given reason to be yanked.

We've seen this before though. Ozzie probably felt it could have been the start of a huge inning for the Twins (not that it mattered in the end anyway). You can't really say that "they might have scored one more run, and that was the end of the inning" because they might have scored six more.

MrX
08-26-2006, 12:53 AM
I think Kenny needs to go and flip over Ozzie's desk instead of another buffet table.

JB98
08-26-2006, 12:54 AM
I don't know why but I took this loss really hard. I've been too countless whitesox games on fridays and always stayed for the fireworks. Today i couldn't.

I didn't stay after our 3-1 loss to Texas on 7/22 either. Similar situation to tonight. That game was 1-1 with two outs in the top of the ninth, and Young hit a two-run single off Jenks to beat us. Tonight, it was 4-4 with two outs in the top of the ninth, and once again, we got beat. It's like a sucker punch, especially when you're at the game.

ShoelessJoeS
08-26-2006, 12:54 AM
This game seriously questioned my faith in Ozzie. I understand putting in MacDougal....but Cotts?

*sigh*

Time to drink heavily.

Ol' No. 2
08-26-2006, 12:54 AM
I didn't understand the Cintron move either. Alex took a hanging breaking ball right down the middle for strike three. Head-scratching move, head-scratching approach by Cintron.

Does Ozzie not have faith in Iguchi? I do.I was surprised he didn't PH Cintron for Uribe in the 8th with Gload on first and Mackowiak on deck. That would have been the time to use him. All I can think of is that Cintron has never faced Crain, but that can work both ways. I'd have much rather had Cintron up there in that situation.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 12:55 AM
I don't know why but I took this loss really hard. I've been too countless whitesox games on fridays and always stayed for the fireworks. Today i couldn't.

I forgot they had fireworks tonight. Man, how could anyone feel like staying?

JB98
08-26-2006, 12:55 AM
This game seriously questioned my faith in Ozzie. I understand putting in MacDougal....but Cotts?

*sigh*

Time to drink heavily.

How about not bunting Pods after Mackowiak's leadoff single in the fifth? If Pods moves him over, JD's single later in the inning means a run.

NoNeckEra
08-26-2006, 12:56 AM
That's because Javy can't get through the sixth inning. Instead of being relieved by short relievers like Thornton or MacDougal, he is relieved by middle relievers like Cotts.
I may be in the minority here, but I blame the offense for doing absolutely NOTHING after Radke's departure. Except for AJ's HR on the first meatball of the bottom of the 6th, we didn't do a thing. If you're going to win a game, you have to keep your feet on their throats and not let up. We did let up, and it cost us.

BeviBall!
08-26-2006, 12:56 AM
I don't understand the micro-managing crap that goes on in Ozzie's head. Someone else already said it, but I feel the need to reiterate, if we were absolutely NOT going to deal McCarthy at the deadline, based on his talent, then why haven't we seen him in what seems like DECADES????

This says it all right here. It was the PERFECT time to bring him in. Ozzie, do what you said you were going to do. Vazquez for 5, then McCarthy for 2.

MrRoboto83
08-26-2006, 12:57 AM
I often don't stay for the fireworks because I don't like to be stuck in traffic after the game.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-26-2006, 12:57 AM
I have not given up on this team, and I will follow them to hell if I need to, but this is insanity for insanity's sake. So many of the things that happen make no sense, and we can't seem to gain any momentum no matter how good we were the previous day or two. This team is beginning to make me feel bi-polar.

I hear ya! Yesterday we played one of our best games of the year, tonight it's this kind of **** again. God, I hope I feel better tomorrow.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:57 AM
I have this habit of reading every post before I post any replies. I don't like to stomp all over the rest of the posts repeating the same blather someone else said 5 pages back. So, I am reading the posts, and was amazed by the number that have actually been blaming Vazquez for this one. He gave up one run, big whoop-de-doo. Had Ozzie left him in, they might have scored one more run, and that was the end of the inning. It was Ozzie's over-managing, trying to look really smart, and bringing in that piece of CRAP Cotts. I didn't have a problem with Javie staying in the game, he had ONE BAD PITCH, nothing more. He had pitched pretty solidly for 5 and so many innings, and had not given reason to be yanked. It's not like he put runners on 2 bags and floated a ball to Torii. Cotts was the deal breaker here, Hunter just happened to guess right on the pitch selection and jacked it.

I don't understand the micro-managing crap that goes on in Ozzie's head. Someone else already said it, but I feel the need to reiterate, if we were absolutely NOT going to deal McCarthy at the deadline, based on his talent, then why haven't we seen him in what seems like DECADES????

I have not given up on this team, and I will follow them to hell if I need to, but this is insanity for insanity's sake. So many of the things that happen make no sense, and we can't seem to gain any momentum no matter how good we were the previous day or two. This team is beginning to make me feel bi-polar.

And time and again, it's Vazquez's start that breaks that momentum. It's beyond coincidence.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 12:57 AM
I may be in the minority here, but I blame the offense for doing absolutely NOTHING after Radke's departure. Except for AJ's HR on the first meatball of the bottom of the 6th, we didn't do a thing. If you're going to win a game, you have to keep your feet on their throats and not let up. We did let up, and it cost us.

That has been overlooked. Same old story, they had their chances.

Kub_Killer_15
08-26-2006, 12:58 AM
I Don't blame you man fireworks dont put a nice smile on your face like a White Sox winner.

NoShoesJoe
08-26-2006, 12:58 AM
This says it all right here. It was the PERFECT time to bring him in. Ozzie, do what you said you were going to do. Vazquez for 5, then McCarthy for 2.

You forget the vaunted lefty-lefty matchups. We need Sean Tracey or Boone Logan.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 12:58 AM
That's because Javy can't get through the sixth inning. Instead of being relieved by short relievers like Thornton or MacDougal, he is relieved by middle relievers like Cotts.

Beat me to it.

StillMissOzzie
08-26-2006, 12:58 AM
I have this habit of reading every post before I post any replies. I don't like to stomp all over the rest of the posts repeating the same blather someone else said 5 pages back. So, I am reading the posts, and was amazed by the number that have actually been blaming Vazquez for this one.

Me, too.

I don't blame Cora for waving Gload in. It took a perfect throw to get him, and it was still a close play. This was NOT one of those "Iguchi-out-by-a-mile" plays. It was still pretty early in the game at that point, too.

And I too don't blame Javy for this one, either. While 1 run in 5 2/3 innings isn't all that impressive, it's par for the course for Javy. He just can't get through a lineup - ANYONE'S lineup - the 3rd time around. Accept it, deal with it, and move on. Yanking him after "Babe" Punto's first HR of the year was the right thing to do.

That said, I am really getting tired of Ozzie's micromanagement lefty vs. lefty, one pitcher per batter situational crap, especially if Cotts is involved. If Ozzie insists on playing it that way, Cotts is NOT the guy that should be in that position. If Ozzie hasn't figured that our with over 80% of the season gone, what's it gonna take.

Riske was no improvement, especially given the added burden of Cotts' baserunner.

SMO
:angry:

jenn2080
08-26-2006, 01:00 AM
I love the fireworks and I did not stay. I just wanted to get the **** away from that place. This one was bad.

digdagdug23
08-26-2006, 01:00 AM
We've seen this before though. Ozzie probably felt it could have been the start of a huge inning for the Twins (not that it mattered in the end anyway). You can't really say that "they might have scored one more run, and that was the end of the inning" because they might have scored six more.

See, but this is where I lose patience with Ozzie. It was one bad pitch. He had two outs. Not that he would not have given up more hits, but I don't see him giving up the homer to Hunter. It is the over managing of Ozzie that makes me wonder what in God's name he is doing. You want to get Javie out of there, fine, but why do you bring in COTTS??? I hate this stupid R/L matchup crap with a passion. I was wondering why he was pulling Javie when he did, but then I figured someone thinks he is toast, fine, pull him. Then they pan to Cotts strolling over, and that's when I lost it. Do you think Cotts felt the sofa pillow I threw at his HEAD???

NoShoesJoe
08-26-2006, 01:00 AM
And I too don't blame Javy for this one, either. While 1 run in 5 2/3 innings isn't all that impressive, it's par for the course for Javy. He just can't get through a lineup - ANYONE'S lineup - the 3rd time around. Accept it, deal with it, and move on. Yanking him after "Babe" Punto's first HR of the year was the right thing to do.


:angry:

It's true. Javy had a 3-hitter going into the 6th. A few hard-hit balls, a HR, it's the right thing to do. BUT NOT WITH COTTS! McCarthy yes.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2006, 01:00 AM
For everyone banking on a season ending Radke injury: The Twins network reported that he did not leave the game with an injury. He told Gardenhire he did not have anything tonight so they brought the bullpen in. He should make his next start.Sorry, I'm not buying this. Radke often gets rocked early, then settles in and is practically unhittable in the late innings. The guy's shoulder hurts so bad that he won't even toss the ball back to someone between starts; he's been rolling it back to them, underhanded. He may try to go out again on his next start, but he's in bad shape.

MrX
08-26-2006, 01:01 AM
I may be in the minority here, but I blame the offense for doing absolutely NOTHING after Radke's departure. Except for AJ's HR on the first meatball of the bottom of the 6th, we didn't do a thing. If you're going to win a game, you have to keep your feet on their throats and not let up. We did let up, and it cost us.
The offense was cruising until Cora killed it in the 2nd. Who knows how many runs they would have scored that inning.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 01:02 AM
Riske was no improvement, especially given the added burden of Cotts' baserunner.

I had no problem with Riske coming in. I doubt anyone saw the Hunter homer coming. He's been pretty decent coming out of the pen.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 01:04 AM
The offense was cruising until Cora killed it in the 2nd. Who knows how many runs they would have scored that inning.

Cora did not kill the offense. And if he did, then this offense has some big problems.

Ol' No. 2
08-26-2006, 01:06 AM
See, but this is where I lose patience with Ozzie. It was one bad pitch. He had two outs. Not that he would not have given up more hits, but I don't see him giving up the homer to Hunter. It is the over managing of Ozzie that makes me wonder what in God's name he is doing. You want to get Javie out of there, fine, but why do you bring in COTTS??? I hate this stupid R/L matchup crap with a passion. I was wondering why he was pulling Javie when he did, but then I figured someone thinks he is toast, fine, pull him. Then they pan to Cotts strolling over, and that's when I lost it. Do you think Cotts felt the sofa pillow I threw at his HEAD???Cotts has been almost automatic lately, and not in a good way. He's had ONE outing this month in which he didn't allow someone to reach base. I don't get it. He was pretty solid the first half, but just before the break he completely fell apart. It was certainly too much to expect him to repeat what he did last year, but this is getting bad.

digdagdug23
08-26-2006, 01:06 AM
The offense was cruising until Cora killed it in the 2nd. Who knows how many runs they would have scored that inning.

This kind of p***es me off. You are big boys, if you can't get past a play in the bottom of the 2nd inning, sometime between then and the ninth? Then you are not worth the money they pay you. I don't buy this for a second. This was an inning breaker possibly, but not a game breaker, and may knock them back on their heels for an inning or two, but pick it up. There were 7 innings left, 21 outs to tally, somewhere in there, figure this crap out.

MrX
08-26-2006, 01:11 AM
Cora did not kill the offense. And if he did, then this offense has some big problems.
That was Radke's last inning and they were hitting him. Cora let him off the hook that inning when he obviously didn't have anything. That let Gardenhire get him out of the game.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 01:12 AM
That was Radke's last inning and they were hitting him. Cora let him off the hook that inning when he obviously didn't have anything. That let Gardenhire get him out of the game.

Gardenhire treated this game like Leyland treated Wednesday's -- like it was huge.

mrs. hendu
08-26-2006, 01:12 AM
anybody know that fan? ... how stupid.
If this happened at the Urinal, the guy would have to go into hiding for 2 years.

Anyway - this sucks. We need to win games when it matters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :whiner: :angry:

BeviBall!
08-26-2006, 01:12 AM
I don't blame Cora for waving Gload in. It took a perfect throw to get him, and it was still a close play. This was NOT one of those "Iguchi-out-by-a-mile" plays. It was still pretty early in the game at that point, too.


Which is exactly why you don't send him. Johan wasn't pitching tonight... what's the point of sending Gload, who is not that fast, when you can guarantee 1st and 3rd with one out and one of your best hitters in that situation? We were smoking the ball off him and probably could've plated 1 or 2 more that inning.

Name me one Minnesota Twin that is incapable of making a routine play? There isn't one which is why you can't take chances like that. This isn't Albert Belle in left. It's one of those Minnesota "fundamentally sound, make every routine play, Tom Emansky certified" clones.

Gardenhire saw that he was DAMN lucky to only be down 3, which is why he yanked Radke after the second.

Ol' No. 2
08-26-2006, 01:14 AM
This kind of p***es me off. You are big boys, if you can't get past a play in the bottom of the 2nd inning, sometime between then and the ninth? Then you are not worth the money they pay you. I don't buy this for a second. This was an inning breaker possibly, but not a game breaker, and may knock them back on their heels for an inning or two, but pick it up. There were 7 innings left, 21 outs to tally, somewhere in there, figure this crap out.It didn't even end the inning. Sending Gload was the right move. Otherwise, you have men on 1st and 3rd with one out and Pods at the plate. It's not as if Pods is a .350 hitter. A GIDP and the inning's over. Even when Gload got thrown out, Mackowiak advanced to second and a hit would have scored him. It's not like Gload was out by 10 feet. If the throw was just a little off line, they score two, Mack moves into second, and they could be lined up for a big inning. It's always a gamble, but this was one worth taking.

BeviBall!
08-26-2006, 01:15 AM
I doubt anyone saw the Hunter homer coming.

Our whole row called it. It's Torii. And, we've only seen this situation play out exactly the way it did about 5 times in the second half.

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 01:18 AM
Our whole row called it. It's Torii. And, we've only seen this situation play out exactly the way it did about 5 times in the second half.

So what do you do, not pitch to him? I thought Riske was perfectly capable of getting Hunter out. :redface:

MrX
08-26-2006, 01:21 AM
As far as Radke's injury

"I could have stayed out there," Radke, refusing to blame his injury. "It's the same as it has been. Gardenhire just didn't want to push it."

southsideirish71
08-26-2006, 01:21 AM
Cotts have a plus 6 era since the allstar break. He has a plus 8 era in August, and his 2nd half whip is 2.42.

Brandon has a low 3 era in the 2nd half.

So which one do you pick when you are up by only 2 runs with a man on.

If you are drunk or you are Ozzie you go with Cotts.

Brandon needs to apologize for kicking ozzies dog or whatever he did. He should bring Brian with him, because he must of did the same thing to be in the platoon with Mack now.

Cora needs to be fired after this year. This BS about it takes a pefect throw and a perfect exchange. I will buy that on a bang bang play, but not when the left fielder has the ball in short left field and said runner hasnt hit 3rd yet. Pretty much its an average throw and an average relay and you are still meat.

Oh and maybe someone should tell Walker and the boys. You can in fact hit the ball to the right side once in a while. You dont need to pull and lift everything. Just because the ball doesnt fly out of the park doesnt mean you cant score.

BeviBall!
08-26-2006, 01:21 AM
So what do you do, not pitch to him? I thought Riske was perfectly capable of getting Hunter out. :redface:

No, I know where you're coming from. It was just the 6th inning of a Javy game where you just knew this, or something similarly bad, was going to happen.

Ozzie had Riske ready to start the 6th. I almost wish he had.

salty99
08-26-2006, 01:25 AM
yeah a TON of people didn't stick around, therefore hardly any traffic after the game. I did see Man Soo driving his car and he yelled to me "We'll get them tomorrow."

0o0o0
08-26-2006, 01:26 AM
Cotts have a plus 6 era since the allstar break. He has a plus 8 era in August, and his 2nd half whip is 2.42.

Brandon has a low 3 era in the 2nd half.

So which one do you pick when you are up by only 2 runs with a man on.

If you are drunk or you are Ozzie you go with Cotts.

:roflmao:I needed a good laugh. Thanks.

Nellie_Fox
08-26-2006, 01:31 AM
If this happened at the Urinal, the guy would have to go into hiding for 2 years.I surely hope you don't think the poor schlub did anything wrong. Morneau would definitely have caught that ball if the fan hadn't interfered, and he surely interfered. From the Sox perspective, it didn't matter.

I don't know what the Chicago coverage showed, but after the play FSN North focused in on some guy in a "early 70's" style baby-blue t-shirt with a red script "Chicago" across the front, but he wasn't the one who knocked the ball away.

Just like last weekend, with Santana being in the mix, you have to assume that you need to win the Friday night game to have a shot to win the series, and again they didn't get it done. Ozzie was absolutely correct to pull Javy; in fact, I wanted him to do it sooner. As soon as a player got a sniff of "on-base" after the fifth, Javy has to go. He's shown too many times that a game seemingly on cruise control can ignite at any moment.

However, get away from the formula of saving certain pitchers for certain innings. That was a crucial situation, and Thornton should have come in then. And as soon as Cintron came into the on-deck circle, I was shaking my head, because I have a lot more faith in Iguchi against Nathan, but what the hell do I know, because I was yelling for a pinch-hitter for Podsednik, and what did he do but get the leadoff single, which is all you can ask from him.

Bill Naharodny
08-26-2006, 01:31 AM
yeah a TON of people didn't stick around, therefore hardly any traffic after the game. I did see Man Soo driving his car and he yelled to me "We'll get them tomorrow."

I'm not sure exactly why, but this is hysterical.