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View Full Version : Yet another "What's wrong with Javy" thread


Ol' No. 2
08-22-2006, 06:28 PM
Another installment in the "How can a guy be so good the first two times through the order, and so awful the third time?" question.

Here's another thought. Most good pitchers rely on 2 or 3 pitches the first time through the order, then mix in another the second time and change something else the third. I wonder if Vazquez is showing all his pitches the first two times through the order. With 4 good pitches, it would be no wonder he could dominate hitters the first couple of times, but by the third time through the order, they'd have seen everything he has - twice.

Daver
08-22-2006, 06:38 PM
He's tipping his fastball, I noticed it in his last start. He doesn't do it every time, but he does have a tendency to drop his shoulder down in his windup when throwing it.

Ol' No. 2
08-22-2006, 06:43 PM
He's tipping his fastball, I noticed it in his last start. He doesn't do it every time, but he does have a tendency to drop his shoulder down in his windup when throwing it.I haven't noticed that, but I'll watch for it next time. So why don't they pick up on it the first couple of times through the order? Everyone's got tons of film. Or is he only doing it later in the game?

JB98
08-22-2006, 06:48 PM
He's tipping his fastball, I noticed it in his last start. He doesn't do it every time, but he does have a tendency to drop his shoulder down in his windup when throwing it.

So does that mean they know when the breaking ball is coming too? Javy is getting hurt A LOT on his curve ball.....

QCIASOXFAN
08-22-2006, 07:00 PM
So does that mean they know when the breaking ball is coming too? Javy is getting hurt A LOT on his curve ball.....It seems like in that one big inning they just know when everything is coming.

ShoelessJoeS
08-22-2006, 07:04 PM
So does that mean they know when the breaking ball is coming too? Javy is getting hurt A LOT on his curve ball.....I think the "get me over" curve balls are the ones that are hurting him. Regardless if they know what's coming, everyone's going to hit a meatball.

kitekrazy
08-22-2006, 07:12 PM
Another installment in the "How can a guy be so good the first two times through the order, and so awful the third time?" question.

Here's another thought. Most good pitchers rely on 2 or 3 pitches the first time through the order, then mix in another the second time and change something else the third. I wonder if Vazquez is showing all his pitches the first two times through the order. With 4 good pitches, it would be no wonder he could dominate hitters the first couple of times, but by the third time through the order, they'd have seen everything he has - twice.

Maybe the pitching coach and catcher need to come in play on this one.

Daver
08-22-2006, 07:14 PM
I haven't noticed that, but I'll watch for it next time. So why don't they pick up on it the first couple of times through the order? Everyone's got tons of film. Or is he only doing it later in the game?

I didn't notice it till the fourth inning.

Tragg
08-22-2006, 08:07 PM
Perhaps nothing's wrong with him. His numbers are similar to his performance the last 3 years ....not very good.

Just another "stuff" guy like AJ Burnett, Prior, Wood and a long, long llist of generally ineffective "stuff" pitchers?

viagracat
08-22-2006, 11:02 PM
A freind of mine, who's a baseball coach, said he saw Contreras doing the same thing last night: dropping his shoulder.

2ndCitySox
08-22-2006, 11:06 PM
Stay away from the curve ball. Maybe, just maybe he can have a quality start.

batmanZoSo
08-22-2006, 11:18 PM
I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was tipping something, what with the inordinate amount of dink and dunk hits that he gives up, which has been pointed out before.

samram
08-22-2006, 11:40 PM
I haven't noticed any tipping of pitches (although I don't doubt it's happening), but I thought the same thing Ol' No.2 did about his using all his pitches from the start of the game and leaving nothing to the imagination come the sixth inning. I think the catchers should take some blame for that because there's a difference between calling pitches and calling a game.

Chicken Dinner
08-23-2006, 11:57 AM
The problem is that he throws so many pitches to each batter. By the time they come up for the 3rd round, each batter has seen about 12 pitches each. If you go 3-2 to most hitters and throw in a few foul balls, everyone pretty much knows what you have.

Tekijawa
08-23-2006, 12:02 PM
The problem is that he throws so many pitches to each batter. By the time they come up for the 3rd round, each batter has seen about 12 pitches each. If you go 3-2 to most hitters and throw in a few foul balls, everyone pretty much knows what you have.

Bingo...

soxfan13
08-23-2006, 12:17 PM
I think the "get me over" curve balls are the ones that are hurting him. Regardless if they know what's coming, everyone's going to hit a meatball.

I agree with you. I havent thought it was his fastball letting him down. These guys seem to be teeing off on his off speed breaking stuff,

Dan Mega
08-23-2006, 12:22 PM
I agree with you. I havent thought it was his fastball letting him down. These guys seem to be teeing off on his off speed breaking stuff,

They tee off on his breaking stuff because they know its coming if they miss on his fastball. I would have thought he could mix it up a bit more but as someone mentioned earlier, if you give up tons of pitches and tip some of them, you're going to get shelled.