PDA

View Full Version : Lilly and Gibbons argue...and fight?


Jjav829
08-21-2006, 08:12 PM
TORONTO (AP) -- Blue Jays manager John Gibbons and pitcher Ted Lilly (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6223/) got into an argument -- and possibly a fight -- after Gibbons removed the pitcher from Monday night's game against the Oakland Athletics (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/oak/).


Gibbons argued with Lilly on the mound and later in the tunnel leading to the clubhouse after the pitcher left the game. A team trainer and a few players raced down the stairs of the tunnel after Gibbons followed Lilly. A television camera later showed Gibbons with a bloody nose.
This coming two months or so after the news that Gibbons challenged Shea Hillenbrand to a fight.

Gibbons sounds like a major *******.

beckett21
08-21-2006, 08:17 PM
This coming two months or so after the news that Gibbons challenged Shea Hillenbrand to a fight.

Gibbons sounds like a major *******.

That was the first thought that crossed my mind. A pattern seems to be developing with him.

Guess Lilly wasn't as nice about it as Hillenbrand was. :redneck

mjmcend
08-21-2006, 08:19 PM
Gibbons sounds like a major *******.

What the hell is up with that guy and what the hell happened to professionalism?


And people think Ozzie is crazy. He has yet to physically fight (or even challenge) any players.

gbergman
08-21-2006, 08:45 PM
Damn, this guys on my fantasy team. Good thing i didnt pitch him.

buehrle4cy05
08-21-2006, 08:59 PM
Gibbons has to be fired now. When you challenge one player to a fight, that can be viewed as an isolated incident. But 2 (and in the second one, you get the **** knocked out of you) is unacceptable. The Jays are struggling despite having a lot of talent. Maybe they're playing scared.

Dan Mega
08-21-2006, 09:12 PM
Gibbons might be the reason why the Jays aren't in the WC race.

beckett21
08-21-2006, 09:21 PM
According to this link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiYIHNjChozyMrxB.i2nM3M5nYcB?slug=ap-bluejays-lilly-gibbons&prov=ap&type=lgns), it indeed was Gibbons who went after Lilly in the tunnel.

What a joke. I'm glad Lilly cleaned his clock.

Dan Mega
08-21-2006, 09:23 PM
According to this link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiYIHNjChozyMrxB.i2nM3M5nYcB?slug=ap-bluejays-lilly-gibbons&prov=ap&type=lgns), it indeed was Gibbons who went after Lilly in the tunnel.

What a joke. I'm glad Lilly cleaned his clock.

Holy crap:o:

I am pretty darn sure that if Ozzie ever attacked one of his own players, KW and Jerry wouldn't hesitate in kicking him out.

SABRSox
08-21-2006, 10:01 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060822/capt.e0021db7c9ad4482aaee34b25bce9c67.athletics_bl ue_jays_baseball_cpth101.jpg

This here doesn't look too friendly. I can only imagine what happened in the tunnel.

buehrle4cy05
08-21-2006, 10:02 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060822/capt.e0021db7c9ad4482aaee34b25bce9c67.athletics_bl ue_jays_baseball_cpth101.jpg

This here doesn't look too friendly. I can only imagine what happened in the tunnel.

I'd hate to be Bengie Molina right then. Talk about awkward...

jongarlandlover
08-21-2006, 10:04 PM
Gibbons sounds like a major *******.

You're not kidding.

getonbckthr
08-21-2006, 10:12 PM
Yes I was so wrong when I said Hillenbrand was mistreated in Toronto, clearly Lilly is a bad team player also!

beckett21
08-21-2006, 10:14 PM
Yes I was so wrong when I said Hillenbrand was mistreated in Toronto, clearly Lilly is a bad team player also!

Hillenbrand is looking much better after this, that's for sure.

fquaye149
08-21-2006, 10:24 PM
This coming two months or so after the news that Gibbons challenged Shea Hillenbrand to a fight.

Gibbons sounds like a major *******.
The thing is Hillenbrand is a huge butthead. Lilly, I haven't heard anything about...I guess this would point SOME of the blame in the Hillenbrand incident to Gibbons (or at least suggest it). But it doesn't change the fact that Hillenbrand probably had it coming.

"This ship is sinking?"

What a ****head

fquaye149
08-21-2006, 10:25 PM
Yes I was so wrong when I said Hillenbrand was mistreated in Toronto, clearly Lilly is a bad team player also!
Well...unless all major media sources BESIDES Espn (And even ESPN reported that Hillenbrand is an *******) are wrong.

And unless the fact that Hillenbrand's been on umpteen teams in as many years is irrelevant, I think an incident like this has very little bearing on the facts where Hillenbrand was a huge jerkoff.

chisoxmike
08-21-2006, 10:30 PM
Geez, IMAGINE if this happens on the Sox and it involves Ozzie.

Ozzie would be petitioned to be deported by the media.

getonbckthr
08-21-2006, 10:56 PM
The thing is Hillenbrand is a huge butthead. Lilly, I haven't heard anything about...I guess this would point SOME of the blame in the Hillenbrand incident to Gibbons (or at least suggest it). But it doesn't change the fact that Hillenbrand probably had it coming.

"This ship is sinking?"

What a ****head
Actually its now safe to say "The ship has sunk"

caulfield12
08-22-2006, 07:22 AM
This coming two months or so after the news that Gibbons challenged Shea Hillenbrand to a fight.

Gibbons sounds like a major *******.

Let's just hope that Ricciardi isn't stupid enough to release Lilly and he ends up getting claimed by Boston.

I think a lot of teams would like to have Lilly, so, hopefully, he would never be passed over to that extent...everyone needs a dependable AND left-handed fifth starter.

I would assume Gibbons after the off-season would be out rather than ditching another player for less than equal value, although it seems things worked out okay with Hillenbrand trade considering the position they put themselves in.

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 07:29 AM
Actually its now safe to say "The ship has sunk"

http://thebrushback.com/bluejays_full.htm

Baby Fisk
08-22-2006, 07:45 AM
Actually its now safe to say "The ship has sunk"

The Jays are imploding.

Gibbons has to be done after this season. This is two incidents in one season involving a player and at least some talk of physical violence in the clubhouse. The players seem to have little respect for him. When Gibbons came out to give Lilly the hook, you could clearly see Lilly tell him "I'm not finished yet." Gibbons would have none of that and that's when it got heated.

Meanwhile, GM J.P. Ricciardi and team President Paul Godfrey watched the mayhem unfolding from their private box, in mute nostril agony. You have to believe that the Jays' season is officially off the rails after this latest spectacular loss. They had an 8-0 lead and managed to blow it. What a fiasco.

Congratulations New York Yankees. :mad:

tigersfan25
08-22-2006, 09:18 AM
"This ship is sinking?"

What a ****head
Perhaps Gibbons is an abusive clown in the clubhouse, and he got put to his end on the matter... maybe he's a Bill Lumbergh type. Who knows about Gibbons...

southside rocks
08-22-2006, 09:25 AM
And people think Ozzie is crazy. He has yet to physically fight (or even challenge) any players.

But don't forget, Ozzie made Sean Tracey blubber like a baby and "ruined" him as a pitcher!

Oh no, wait, that was just the idiot media trolls take on it. Never mind! :redneck

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 11:12 AM
Perhaps Gibbons is an abusive clown in the clubhouse, and he got put to his end on the matter... maybe he's a Bill Lumbergh type. Who knows about Gibbons...

This incident does support the argument that Gibbons is an *******.

However, the Hillenbrand incident speaks to very little except the established fact that Hillenbrand is a huge baby, clubhouse cancer, and jerkoff

"Why didn't they congratulate me on my adopted child??:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: "

mjmcend
08-22-2006, 12:08 PM
This incident does support the argument that Gibbons is an *******.

However, the Hillenbrand incident speaks to very little except the established fact that Hillenbrand is a huge baby, clubhouse cancer, and jerkoff

"Why didn't they congratulate me on my adopted child??:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: "


Whatever Hillenbrand is does not excuse Gibbons for challenging him to a fight. Hillenbrand could have insulted his wife or mother but the manger of a team needs to be above the players. Gibbons can and should be able to bench players or even with the GM release players for their selfish attitudes. However, no one who calls themselves a leader or boss should sink to the level of 3rd graders and try to start a fight. This 2nd incident proves that Gibbons should be fired immediately.

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 12:15 PM
Whatever Hillenbrand is does not excuse Gibbons for challenging him to a fight. Hillenbrand could have insulted his wife or mother but the manger of a team needs to be above the players. Gibbons can and should be able to bench players or even with the GM release players for their selfish attitudes. However, no one who calls themselves a leader or boss should sink to the level of 3rd graders and try to start a fight. This 2nd incident proves that Gibbons should be fired immediately.

Sure. Gibbons certainly seems to be an unprofessional *******.

But posters here are using this incident to excuse Hillenbrand. It does not excuse Hillenbrand, it merely indicts both Hillenbrand and Gibbons retrospectively.

Kub_Killer_15
08-22-2006, 12:24 PM
Gibbons has major issues. The blue jays are a good team it seems to me their manager is just a joke! He deffinetly should be fired!

Kub_Killer_15
08-22-2006, 12:37 PM
I just watched MLB.TV in the 3rd Inning when it was appose to go to a commercial break but they didnt and you see the fight and can hear I think gibbons say "you had this game on the ropes"then the commentary say WOW.... HE GOT HILLENBRAND....OH MY GOODNESS....LOOK A THEM GO NOW....WOW....JEEZZZZZE

Chicken Dinner
08-22-2006, 12:41 PM
Lilly is a loose cannon. If the manager wants the ball, the pitcher has to give it to him. Who's running the team. This was Lilly's issue and he was dead wrong. He will regret it.

rookieroy
08-22-2006, 12:53 PM
[quote=mjmcend]Whatever Hillenbrand is does not excuse Gibbons for challenging him to a fight. Hillenbrand could have insulted his wife or mother but the manger of a team needs to be above the players. Gibbons can and should be able to bench players or even with the GM release players for their selfish attitudes. However, no one who calls themselves a leader or boss should sink to the level of 3rd graders and try to start a fight. This 2nd incident proves that Gibbons should be fired immediately.

Thank you! Regardless of what Hillenbrand and Lilly said or did does not excuse a manager(or anyone for that matter) to start a physical confrontation and to do it twice! Imagine for a second your boss starting a fight with you and what the consequences would be for everyone.

Gibbons should have been fired. People who react in this matter typically have other emotional and/or mental issues. And Gibbons says he and Lilly are just competitive???? Please....so am I but I don't start fighting people. HE GONE!

CHISOXFAN13
08-22-2006, 12:58 PM
Lilly is a loose cannon. If the manager wants the ball, the pitcher has to give it to him. Who's running the team. This was Lilly's issue and he was dead wrong. He will regret it.

I agree. This whole thread has basically turned into a bash Gibbons thread. While I agree he was in the wrong for being involved in a physical altercation with a player, he has every right to pull a pitcher, who alone, let an 8-0 lead evaporate in 2 1/3 innings. Aren't done yet? Who the **** is Ted Lilly crapping?

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 01:06 PM
Thank you! Regardless of what Hillenbrand and Lilly said or did does not excuse a manager(or anyone for that matter) to start a physical confrontation and to do it twice! Imagine for a second your boss starting a fight with you and what the consequences would be for everyone.

Gibbons should have been fired. People who react in this matter typically have other emotional and/or mental issues. And Gibbons says he and Lilly are just competitive???? Please....so am I but I don't start fighting people. HE GONE!

Let's be realistic. Sometimes you can hug it out (bitches). But sometimes when you're in a position of authority in a physical environment (like, say, an army drill sergeant or a sports coach) you have to be able to exert your authority in a number of different ways.

I don't necessarily back up what Gibbons did in any respect (and certainly don't initially agree with what he did with Lilly) but this is a sport.

Suppose Gibbons couldn't get Hillenbrand to stop challenging his authority because Hillenbrand is a whiny bitch (something that is completely supported by people who have worked with Hillenbrand, along with undisputed news reports surrounding the incident). If Gibbons finally said, "look Hillenbrand, if you really have a problem we can take it outside" I see nothing wrong with it.

This is the way things have worked in the past. This is the way they are probably going to work in some circles forever.

There's a Garth Brooks song about it--the night I called the old man out.

Gibbons will almost certainly be fired, but to categorically rip him for the way he handled the Hillenbrand situation without knowing any specifics (except the specifics that pointedly detail what an ******* Hillenbrand is) is silly, imo

maurice
08-22-2006, 01:34 PM
Suppose Gibbons couldn't get Hillenbrand to stop challenging his authority because Hillenbrand is a whiny bitch (something that is completely supported by people who have worked with Hillenbrand, along with undisputed news reports surrounding the incident). If Gibbons finally said, "look Hillenbrand, if you really have a problem we can take it outside" I see nothing wrong with it.

Or he could have just asked the GM to get rid of him. He apparently had the clout to do this, since it's what ended up happening anyway. When Ozzie decides that a player is "a whiny bitch" and wants him gone, he doesn't challenge him to a fight. He just tells KW that he wants him gone. This is pro baseball, not the army.

Gibbons appears to be just another idiot who THINKS that he's a tough guy. Perhaps now he'll realize that he's "challenging" a bunch of professional athletes in their physical primes. Lou Pinella had to find this out the hard way, too. The difference is that Pinella's teams occasionally won.

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 01:46 PM
Or he could have just asked the GM to get rid of him. He apparently had the clout to do this, since it's what ended up happening anyway. When Ozzie decides that a player is "a whiny bitch" and wants him gone, he doesn't challenge him to a fight. He just tells KW that he wants him gone. This is pro baseball, not the army.

Gibbons appears to be just another idiot who THINKS that he's a tough guy. Perhaps now he'll realize that he's "challenging" a bunch of professional athletes in their physical primes. Lou Pinella had to find this out the hard way, too. The difference is that Pinella's teams occasionally won.
Sure. An idiot or "old school". There may be a fine line b/t the two in re: to player managing, these days.

I'm not saying it's what I would have done...but maybe he thought Hillenbrand's bat was valuable and was trying to get him to play ball. There are probably a few **** talkers out there who might have started falling in if challenged to put up or shut up.

You're right Gibbons is old and ballplayers are athletes in their prime. But athletes also have a lot more than Gibbons to lose if they get injured in a fistfight.

Just some things to ponder before we point fingers in general.

I too think Ozzie handles it in the proper way (As do a # of managers)....but Gibbons' way isn't INHERENTLY wrong. Just foolish, and probably not a good way to keep his job.

EDIT:

PS--Hillenbrand's dismissal likely wasn't JUST on Gibbons' say-so. Keep in mind that Hillenbrand took potshots at the entire organization in the days leading up to his dismissal

spiffie
08-22-2006, 03:38 PM
Sure. An idiot or "old school". There may be a fine line b/t the two in re: to player managing, these days.

I'm not saying it's what I would have done...but maybe he thought Hillenbrand's bat was valuable and was trying to get him to play ball. There are probably a few **** talkers out there who might have started falling in if challenged to put up or shut up.

You're right Gibbons is old and ballplayers are athletes in their prime. But athletes also have a lot more than Gibbons to lose if they get injured in a fistfight.

Just some things to ponder before we point fingers in general.

I too think Ozzie handles it in the proper way (As do a # of managers)....but Gibbons' way isn't INHERENTLY wrong. Just foolish, and probably not a good way to keep his job.

EDIT:

PS--Hillenbrand's dismissal likely wasn't JUST on Gibbons' say-so. Keep in mind that Hillenbrand took potshots at the entire organization in the days leading up to his dismissal
So I gather from your thoughts on this that if I as your professor feel you are not working up to your potential you won't mind if I hit you with a couple good stiff jabs after class just to get your head on straight?

Apparently the US Military doesn't agree with you, judging by the amount of cases of disciplinary action against superiors who strike recruits one can find with a quick google search.

You want to punish someone? Put him the back of the pen. Send him to the minors. Demand he be DFA'd. You want to go starting a fight...you deserve first the whipping it seems he got, and the eventual firing he's likely to get.

Baby Fisk
08-22-2006, 03:47 PM
You want to go starting a fight...you deserve first the whipping it seems he got, and the eventual firing he's likely to get.
Gibbons should get the pink slip at the end of the season, and Ricciardi should as well. Next year will be Year Six of Ricciardi's five year plan to win the world series that he so boldly announced when he got hired. The Jays haven't even sniffed at the playoffs since Ricciardi showed up. It's clear that neither Gibbons nor Ricciardi is doing a good job. Godfrey should sack them both, clear out the cancers (eg. Ted "I don't need no coaches" Lilly and Vernon "I don't expect to resign here" Wells), and start over. Unless he has some fetish for finishing in third place for perpetuity; that might be his thing.

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 05:13 PM
So I gather from your thoughts on this that if I as your professor feel you are not working up to your potential you won't mind if I hit you with a couple good stiff jabs after class just to get your head on straight?

Apparently the US Military doesn't agree with you, judging by the amount of cases of disciplinary action against superiors who strike recruits one can find with a quick google search.

You want to punish someone? Put him the back of the pen. Send him to the minors. Demand he be DFA'd. You want to go starting a fight...you deserve first the whipping it seems he got, and the eventual firing he's likely to get.

If that's what you gathered from my thoughts then you need to work on your gathering skills.

A professor and a professional baseball coach are two completely different occupations in two completely different situations.

I don't agree with it, but sometimes the best way to get a punkass in a sweaty bluecollar setting to show some respect is whupping his ass. I can't see it happening in a classroom (unless it's metal shop or soemthing)...but I can see a construction foreman asking a problem worker to meet him out back if he really wants to settle things that way.

In this day and age would he get sued? Probably. But that's the way things were often handled, and that's the way some people still do things. You'd be surprised how many punks when they get their ass whupped are a little embarrassed about it and have a newfound respect for the "old man".

That said, Gibbons will almost certainly get fired over this and probably should be. But we're not all that far removed from the hard nosed days of, say, Don Zimmer and so on. Times are changing, and probably for the better...but this is baseball, not college.

I'd have thought you'd have noticed that by now...

Soxfanspcu11
08-22-2006, 05:36 PM
Wow. A manager tries to fight 2 players? Not only should he be fired, he should be banned from baseball for a year or so. This is unbelievably inexcusable, wow, just wow.:o:

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 05:42 PM
Wow. A manager tries to fight 2 players? Not only should he be fired, he should be banned from baseball for a year or so. This is unbelievably inexcusable, wow, just wow.:o:

um...yeah...because someone who charges the mound gets banned for a year or so.....

yeah, this is definitely a more pressing issue than steroids (for which the ban is like 40 games)

soxinem1
08-23-2006, 07:09 PM
I think they both acted like fools. Supposedly Lilly called him an ***hole on the mound. If he did, he should be dumped like Hillenbrand. He gives up seven runs after being spotted an 8-0 lead and dares challenge the manager?

The Hillenbrand incident may have actually been more attributed to the player, but if these players have the idea they can make these comments without consequence, then the manager is not running a very serious ship.