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View Full Version : Is this Joe's year for the GG?


Ol' No. 2
08-21-2006, 01:31 PM
As flawed as the system is, I can't see more than a very few morons voting for Alex Rodrieguez and his 22 errors (so far). Who else can realistically challenge Crede for the Gold Glove? Eric Chavez is the only one who comes close, and I say Joe's better.

buehrle4cy05
08-21-2006, 01:31 PM
Crede deserves it, but I doubt he gets it.

Mr.1Dog
08-21-2006, 01:36 PM
Here's a link for a breakdown of all Major League 3rd Basemen.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=cws&baseballScope=mlb&subScope=pos&teamPosCode=5&statType=3&timeSubFrame=2006&sitSplit=&venueID=&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

gbergman
08-21-2006, 01:39 PM
Eric Chavez and Mike Lowell have higher fielding percentage. Looks like a race between those 2 and Joe. I hope Joe gets it, but we will have to see how he does compared to those 2.

Jerko
08-21-2006, 01:40 PM
They'll give it to Lowell.

PorkChopExpress
08-21-2006, 01:41 PM
Lowell will get a lot of votes:
1) because he is a good 3B,
2) because he has won it in the NL, and
3) because he plays in Boston.

His edge over Crede is the Boston factor. Joe should get a lot of consideration for his defensive display in the WS last year (I know the award is for 2006) but I do not know if it will be enough to overcome the Boston factor.

All of that being said, I think Crede desrves it, and I hope he gets it.

getonbckthr
08-21-2006, 01:44 PM
Joe has the supporting batting stats which even though it shouldn't it does impact the gg voting.

itsnotrequired
08-21-2006, 01:47 PM
The award is Chavez's to lose. His performance to date has been adequate enough to keep it.

TheOldRoman
08-21-2006, 01:54 PM
Chavez will probably win it on the "Toriii Hunter rule". It doesn't matter if you are injured for half the year or fade into oblivion, the award is yours until ESPN finds a new golden boy.

Lowell's fielding percentage is high. As for his range, it is probably about even with putting David Wells at 3rd. Lowell collects anything he gets to, but he doesn't get to all that much. That is what the ESPN morons don't understand. Boston doesn't have the best defense in baseball, not even close. They have a great fielding percentage, but they only have one good defender because they have no range. They don't get errors because they barely get to anything. If Manny misreads a routine fly ball and it falls, it isn't an error. That being said, if Chavez doesn't win it, it will go to Lowell.

jackbrohamer
08-21-2006, 02:09 PM
Rafael Palmeiro.

slobes
08-21-2006, 02:14 PM
The award is Chavez's to lose. His performance to date has been adequate enough to keep it.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I don't think it's Joe's year.

BadBobbyJenks
08-21-2006, 02:30 PM
jeez chavez only has 3 errors, I had no idea

Ol' No. 2
08-21-2006, 02:42 PM
If errors were the criterion, Carlos Lee should have had a GG in 2004. Lowell has only 5 errors. That's because he only gets to balls hit right at him. Crede has better range than Lowell or Chavez.

102605
08-21-2006, 02:44 PM
I hope Joe gets it, although I think he made more incredible plays last year to this point.

That being said, Chavez has had an outstanding year in the field. Yes, we can keep hammering the thought he gets it because he wins every year but he may actually deserve it this year more than the years past.

Oblong
08-21-2006, 02:46 PM
I think Crede, Lowell, and Inge are all deserving.

Lip Man 1
08-21-2006, 02:58 PM
Joe is a very good third baseman however he's not going to win it. Much like the All Star Farce, Gold Gloves are now a popularity contest as well as a reputation one.

In these important areas Joe has no chance.

Lip

Oblong
08-21-2006, 03:01 PM
The problem is that defense is hard to quantify. With offense you can look at the numbers and make apretty good guess.

Every defensive stat has it's flaws. Some of them are too complicated for the voters to rely on so they just go by gut. But is that really fair? How can you judge a player you've only seen a few times? That's why it goes by reputation.

esbrechtel
08-21-2006, 03:48 PM
i figure if they let the fans vote for GG we have it in the bag....i mean we did help AJ win a popularity contest...

Ol' No. 2
08-21-2006, 03:49 PM
The problem is that defense is hard to quantify. With offense you can look at the numbers and make apretty good guess.

Every defensive stat has it's flaws. Some of them are too complicated for the voters to rely on so they just go by gut. But is that really fair? How can you judge a player you've only seen a few times? That's why it goes by reputation.Reputation matters, but reputation is another name for visibility. Crede got a lot of visibility in last year's post-season, which is why I think he has a decent shot. I'd say it's a three horse race:

Lowell: not really that good, but plays in Boston, and won in the NL
Chavez: not exactly the incumbent, but the last one of the three to have won in the AL
Crede: Obviously the best gloveman of the three, and got a lot of notice in the big stage of post-season play.

peelwonder
08-21-2006, 04:03 PM
I think Crede, Lowell, and Inge are all deserving.

Inge? Doesn't he have a ton of errors?

GoGoOzzie
08-21-2006, 04:40 PM
I think a really good indication of Joe's superior defensive ability is the high number of assists (274) that he has at third, compared to Chavez(221) and Lowell (246). Crede is second in the league in assists behind Inge. This shows...
1) He gets to more balls that would have gotten through with a not as good 3rd baseman.
2) He has the arm and athletic ability to throw runners out whereas a different fielder would not be able to.

GoGoOzzie
08-21-2006, 04:44 PM
Inge? Doesn't he have a ton of errors?

16, tied for fourth most in the AL.

Frater Perdurabo
08-21-2006, 06:52 PM
Crede deserves it. Unfortunately, I agree with Lip that it is a popularity contest. If it was based solely on defensive play, Brian Anderson would deserve a Gold Glove, too.

soxinem1
08-21-2006, 10:09 PM
The award is Chavez's to lose. His performance to date has been adequate enough to keep it.

In 1990 Ozzie beat Cal Ripken, Jr. even though Cal had a better FP and made way fewer errors, but Ozzie had more range and caught more balls than Cal. Harold Reynolds won a few making a ton of errors too.

Joe has been great, but Lowell and Chavez have been magicians. Joe has saved a bunch of runs, but the stats don't lie, it's probably Chavez' and Lowell's race to lose.

fquaye149
08-21-2006, 10:39 PM
Joe is a very good third baseman however he's not going to win it. Much like the All Star Farce, Gold Gloves are now a popularity contest as well as a reputation one.

In these important areas Joe has no chance.

Lip

I don't think that's true. I think Joe's reputation is growing. After those clutch hits in the playoffs, even third party announcers are taking note of his offensive prowess. And they then comment on his great fielding. I think players and coaches around the league too are starting to notice.

Is it going to be this year? No, probably not. But if he keeps hitting and keeps fielding the way he has been, it WILL be next year (unless Rolen gets traded to the AL or something). I'm almost certain he will have a GG by 2007 barring some extenuating circumstances.

Oblong
08-22-2006, 11:00 AM
Inge? Doesn't he have a ton of errors?

Yes but he also gets to a lot more balls so naturally he'll have more errors. As of a few days ago he had about 40 more chances than Crede.

Flight #24
08-22-2006, 11:12 AM
Joe has saved a bunch of runs, but the stats don't lie, it's probably Chavez' and Lowell's race to lose.

:rolleyes:

Even statheads at BP will tell you defensive stats are pretty poor at this point in time. The defensive stats tell you that Mark Loretta is a solid defender, despite having the range of a fire hydrant.

soxinem1
08-22-2006, 04:26 PM
:rolleyes:

Even statheads at BP will tell you defensive stats are pretty poor at this point in time. The defensive stats tell you that Mark Loretta is a solid defender, despite having the range of a fire hydrant.

I disagree with you on that one, as in the stats do not lie this time. For instances like my earlier point about Guillen vs. Ripken in 1990 and Harold Reynolds in the 1980's, I agree with you, but this time, it is much more obvious.

I'd love to see Crede win the GG, but Chavez has outperformed him this year. Not with the stick, but definitely with the glove. And that is not a really a bad thing. It means there are several solid defensive 3B in MLB.

ChiSoxFan7
08-22-2006, 05:05 PM
he realy should, but he wont..... but in a happy note the re-signing price between a GG and a non GG 3B is how much...



But i also agree that next year with continued good play will be a GG campaign for him.

and in a good note he SHOULD be under contract:smile:

fquaye149
08-22-2006, 05:21 PM
I disagree with you on that one, as in the stats do not lie this time. For instances like my earlier point about Guillen vs. Ripken in 1990 and Harold Reynolds in the 1980's, I agree with you, but this time, it is much more obvious.

I'd love to see Crede win the GG, but Chavez has outperformed him this year. Not with the stick, but definitely with the glove. And that is not a really a bad thing. It means there are several solid defensive 3B in MLB.

Of all stats, defensive stats are the stupidest. IF you don't understand this there are myriad arguments (by statheads and non-statheads alike) illustrating the commonsense notion that defensive stats are almost wholly incomplete and misleading.

:walnuts:
"but, but, but....ROYCE is my CHOICE"


just kidding guys:redneck:redneck:redneck

thomas35forever
08-22-2006, 05:54 PM
Joe should get it, but I doubt he will.

StatHead21
08-23-2006, 01:08 AM
Joe was better with the glove last year, but he is hitting this year so I guess that should earn him a few more votes, sadly.