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View Full Version : Chris Young called-up to Arizona


Randar68
08-21-2006, 12:33 PM
Former Sox farmhand (centerpiece if the Vazquez deal)...


Center fielder Chris Young, 22, who got called up Friday, hit .276/.363/.532 with 21 home runs and 17 steals; he struck out 71 times in 402 at-bats, but on a per at-bat basis, that figure was much lower than last year (18 percent compared with 28 percent).

maurice
08-21-2006, 02:38 PM
Good luck to Chris.

Randar68
08-21-2006, 02:43 PM
He went 1-3 with a run scored in his MLB debut on Friday night.

Mr. White Sox
08-21-2006, 05:43 PM
He went 1-3 with a run scored in his MLB debut on Friday night.

To all of the people that love trading away the farm...provided Young stays healthy hopefully he'll show what an asset he is in the big leagues.

MadetoOrta
08-21-2006, 06:27 PM
To all of the people that love trading away the farm...provided Young stays healthy hopefully he'll show what an asset he is in the big leagues.

Amen to you. Let's hope one day we'll see Fields and Sweeney in the bigs.

Hagan
08-21-2006, 07:00 PM
I miss chris young. I wish we wouldnt have traded him. Hopefully he does well one of he teams with the brightest future in baseball.

Frater Perdurabo
08-21-2006, 07:56 PM
Sigh. This is a trade I'd like to have back. McCarthy/El Duque would be in the rotation (with the other in the pen), Vizcaino would be the long man, and Chris Young would be raking at Charlotte, ready to take over in left field in 2007 (beside Brian Anderson in center).

cleanwsox
08-23-2006, 04:46 PM
Young hits a 2 run HR off of Jason Schmidt to tie the game at 4. His first major league HR.

Tragg
08-23-2006, 04:58 PM
Sigh. This is a trade I'd like to have back. McCarthy/El Duque would be in the rotation (with the other in the pen), Vizcaino would be the long man, and Chris Young would be raking at Charlotte, ready to take over in left field in 2007 (beside Brian Anderson in center).
The thing is there was no need to make that trade...we didn't lack for a starting pitcher. Plus, the price we paid was ridiculously high...it was the same price we would have had to pay if Vasquez' performance equalled his "Stuff" (which of course it didn't...his performance in Arizona was as bad as it is here). We gave away our number 1 prospect (teams rarely trade their number 1 prospect...we didn't get the Giants number 1 prospect in 1997....yet we trade ours away for a player we didn't need). It was overkill. It's pretty obvious that Guillen doesn't like McCarthy, but Williams, not Guillen, is in charge of this team's personnel.
Williams is much better with small deals anyway...he's batting near 1000 on those....he's no better than 50/50 on these big deals.

batmanZoSo
08-23-2006, 05:29 PM
The thing is there was no need to make that trade...we didn't lack for a starting pitcher. Plus, the price we paid was ridiculously high...it was the same price we would have had to pay if Vasquez' performance equalled his "Stuff" (which of course it didn't...his performance in Arizona was as bad as it is here). We gave away our number 1 prospect (teams rarely trade their number 1 prospect...we didn't get the Giants number 1 prospect in 1997....yet we trade ours away for a player we didn't need). It was overkill. It's pretty obvious that Guillen doesn't like McCarthy, but Williams, not Guillen, is in charge of this team's personnel.
Williams is much better with small deals anyway...he's batting near 1000 on those....he's no better than 50/50 on these big deals.

I bet most GMs are a lot worse on "big deals" than small ones. For one they're subjected to much more scrutiny and they're expected to be winners. Contrarily, no one expected anything out of Juan Uribe.

But KW certainly trumps the vast majority in the small ones.

Flight #24
08-23-2006, 05:39 PM
The thing is there was no need to make that trade...we didn't lack for a starting pitcher. Plus, the price we paid was ridiculously high...it was the same price we would have had to pay if Vasquez' performance equalled his "Stuff" (which of course it didn't...his performance in Arizona was as bad as it is here). We gave away our number 1 prospect (teams rarely trade their number 1 prospect...we didn't get the Giants number 1 prospect in 1997....yet we trade ours away for a player we didn't need). It was overkill. It's pretty obvious that Guillen doesn't like McCarthy, but Williams, not Guillen, is in charge of this team's personnel.
Williams is much better with small deals anyway...he's batting near 1000 on those....he's no better than 50/50 on these big deals.

Can't compare the WFT with this. Darwin was at the end of his career and Alvarez/Hernandez pending FAs whereas Vazquez is signed for a couple years. Sox also got $$$ relief by sending Duque ($4.5M IIRC) and receiving some cash from 'Zona, which factored into sending a better prospect over.

IMO it's got nothing to do with Guillen "not liking" McCarthy and everything to do with them thinking Vazquez has little use in the 'pen so the choice is McCarthy starting and a hole in the 'pen or a lesser starter but an actual useful reliever.

That said, when Javy underachieves and Young looks good - this deal certainly doesn't appear to be a good one for the Sox.

MUsoxfan
08-23-2006, 05:59 PM
The thing is there was no need to make that trade...we didn't lack for a starting pitcher. Plus, the price we paid was ridiculously high...it was the same price we would have had to pay if Vasquez' performance equalled his "Stuff" (which of course it didn't...his performance in Arizona was as bad as it is here). We gave away our number 1 prospect (teams rarely trade their number 1 prospect...we didn't get the Giants number 1 prospect in 1997....yet we trade ours away for a player we didn't need). It was overkill. It's pretty obvious that Guillen doesn't like McCarthy, but Williams, not Guillen, is in charge of this team's personnel.
Williams is much better with small deals anyway...he's batting near 1000 on those....he's no better than 50/50 on these big deals.


The guy's 2-5 with a HR in his career and the headhunters are out in force. It'll take a couple years to see if this was a bad deal or not.

jdm2662
08-23-2006, 06:15 PM
When Jeremy Reed was called up after the trade, he had a good Sept. Lots of people where questioning the trade again, and KW is an idiot for trading a future all-star, etc. Well, look where Reed is now. Two games doesn't make a career. If he pans out, more power to him. Not all trades work out as planned.

gobears1987
08-23-2006, 06:53 PM
Contrarily, no one expected anything out of Juan Uribe.

And right now I expect nothing from Uribe except Ks, pop outs on the first pitch, and now errors.

caulfield12
08-23-2006, 07:22 PM
When Jeremy Reed was called up after the trade, he had a good Sept. Lots of people where questioning the trade again, and KW is an idiot for trading a future all-star, etc. Well, look where Reed is now. Two games doesn't make a career. If he pans out, more power to him. Not all trades work out as planned.

KW has acknowledged a number of times that Young and Gio could both become All-Stars. He never felt that way about J. Reed or anyone else he's had to give up. Doesn't mean he will be one, but nobody would be surprised either.

balke
08-23-2006, 07:57 PM
The Sox took a chance on a great arm that they thought Coop could sort out. I think it was a smart move, it so far hasn't worked out, but I still think Vazquez could be great in a playoff bullpen roll. El Duque was riddled with small injuries last season, and only dipped into the zone a couple of times during the season.

I loved El Duque in October, but I'm not going to kill Kenny over this deal. It could still workout in the future if the Sox lose a pitcher in the coming seasons, and Vazquez matures into the pitcher people think he should be. Chris Young is still just another prospect to me until he shows otherwise. I would've been much more against losing Brian Anderson. I know people have high hopes for Young but I guess only time will tell. Time the Sox don't really have with this team put together now ready to repeat.

WSox597
08-23-2006, 08:48 PM
KW has acknowledged a number of times that Young and Gio could both become All-Stars.

That's interesting. He must have seen more in Vazquez than we're getting, to make such a trade. Because it's turning out to be pretty bad so far.

It's easy to second guess, but Javy just isn't making it. Bottom line. Stuff or no stuff.

I hope he finds whatever he's missing and straightens out, but it looks less likely as the season goes on. So far, he's only had one really good game, and that one a couple of weeks back. The rest of his wins were by the offense and bullpen.

It should be an interesting off-season, whatever happens to the Sox in the post-season.

HotelWhiteSox
08-23-2006, 09:03 PM
He was the main reason I hated the trade when I heard it, though I still got blasted that I'd rather keep him and have BMac start and Viz in the pen compared to Vazquez starting now and BMac in the pen

California Sox
08-23-2006, 11:03 PM
Chris Young is still just another prospect to me until he shows otherwise. I would've been much more against losing Brian Anderson.

I wish I felt this way. I was a huge opponent of this trade. (And got flamed for it the day of.) Never cared much for Vazquez, but the real reason for my opposition is that you NEVER give up a player who can do what Young can do. He's capable of hitting 30 homers, 50 doubles and stealing 30 bases. I like Anderson, but aside from the doubles, he'll never approach Young's numbers. Sad to say, IMHO Young>>Anderson.

MUsoxfan
08-24-2006, 12:07 AM
I wish I felt this way. I was a huge opponent of this trade. (And got flamed for it the day of.) Never cared much for Vazquez, but the real reason for my opposition is that you NEVER give up a player who can do what Young can do. He's capable of hitting 30 homers, 50 doubles and stealing 30 bases. I like Anderson, but aside from the doubles, he'll never approach Young's numbers. Sad to say, IMHO Young>>Anderson.

There were alot of people that felt this way about Jeremy Reed, and as we all know he's on the way to Cooperstown:cool:

Grzegorz
08-24-2006, 05:59 AM
Sad to say, IMHO Young>>Anderson.

At this point an time it is premature to make this statement. As for Reed, I'd love to see him back in a White Sox uniform. That goes for Olivo too though that would be tough especially in the way he's playing for the Marlins.

Frater Perdurabo
08-24-2006, 09:41 AM
Vazquez can't be compared to guys like Thornton or even Contreras, who began their MLB careers in 2004 and 2003, respectively. Because they are still "young" in terms of their MLB service, Thornton and Contreras still had things that pitching coaches - Cooper in particular - could correct. OTOH, Vazquez is that he has been pitching in the MLB for nine seasons. In that regard, his situation is more like that of Esteban Loaiza, who also joined the Sox to start the ninth season of his MLB career. The difference is that Loaiza got immediate results working with Cooper. He went completely out of his mind and threw 207 Ks to go 21-9 with a 2.90 ERA in 2003.

Nothing has changed with Vazquez throughout his entire career. He's not benefitted one bit from Cooper's coaching. He put up better numbers and lasted much longer in games by pitching to other pitchers and to weak #8 hitters in the NL. In the AL, he doesn't have that advantage and therefore can't get guys out the third time through the lineup. Four additional easy outs equates to another 1.1 innings in the NL.

I don't blame Cooper, whose track record is otherwise flawless. I have a hunch (nothing more, but happens to fit the evidence) that Vazquez is one of those guys who grew up throwing dominating "stuff" and struck out everybody in street/sandlot ball, little league, high school and the minor leagues, and never had to rely on any coaching or smarts to get hitters out. He therefore has "learned" to rely on his stuff and ignores his coaches' suggestions for improvement.

I opposed the Vazquez deal from the beginning, because it was clear based on past evidence that his dominating numbers in previous seasons were products of pitching in the NL. In fact, even if the Sox still had Chris Young, El Duque and Vizcaino for Vazquez would have been a bad deal based on this year's results. But it's even more infuriating that the Sox won't have Chris Young to play left field next year.

soxfan13
08-24-2006, 10:00 AM
The guy's 2-5 with a HR in his career and the headhunters are out in force. It'll take a couple years to see if this was a bad deal or not.

Amen!!

caulfield12
08-24-2006, 03:43 PM
Vazquez can't be compared to guys like Thornton or even Contreras, who began their MLB careers in 2004 and 2003, respectively. Because they are still "young" in terms of their MLB service, Thornton and Contreras still had things that pitching coaches - Cooper in particular - could correct. OTOH, Vazquez is that he has been pitching in the MLB for nine seasons. In that regard, his situation is more like that of Esteban Loaiza, who also joined the Sox to start the ninth season of his MLB career. The difference is that Loaiza got immediate results working with Cooper. He went completely out of his mind and threw 207 Ks to go 21-9 with a 2.90 ERA in 2003.

Nothing has changed with Vazquez throughout his entire career. He's not benefitted one bit from Cooper's coaching. He put up better numbers and lasted much longer in games by pitching to other pitchers and to weak #8 hitters in the NL. In the AL, he doesn't have that advantage and therefore can't get guys out the third time through the lineup. Four additional easy outs equates to another 1.1 innings in the NL.

I don't blame Cooper, whose track record is otherwise flawless. I have a hunch (nothing more, but happens to fit the evidence) that Vazquez is one of those guys who grew up throwing dominating "stuff" and struck out everybody in street/sandlot ball, little league, high school and the minor leagues, and never had to rely on any coaching or smarts to get hitters out. He therefore has "learned" to rely on his stuff and ignores his coaches' suggestions for improvement.

I opposed the Vazquez deal from the beginning, because it was clear based on past evidence that his dominating numbers in previous seasons were products of pitching in the NL. In fact, even if the Sox still had Chris Young, El Duque and Vizcaino for Vazquez would have been a bad deal based on this year's results. But it's even more infuriating that the Sox won't have Chris Young to play left field next year.

This move was all about "selling" El Duque's contract for Chris Young, just as we "sold" Gio for a bigger chunk of cash in conjunction w/ the Thome deal.

If we had Young in LF, who would be leading off?

There's no guarantee that Young will be any better than Fields or Sweeney, 5-10 years from now.

The odds are the Sox will come out on top because they had an abundance of outfielders and could afford to shed from that depth.

It's not unlike what happened in CLE with Sexson, Casey, Giles, Branyan, etc. There's simply no place to play everyone.

KW took a risk which hasn't worked YET, but what 5th starters in baseball would you prefer? If he was brought in to do what Todd Ritchie or David Wells were in 01 and 02, then you could call it an unqualified disaster.

Young doesn't have the arm to play CF...Anderson was the better all-around option from an offensive and defensive perspective.

Frater Perdurabo
08-24-2006, 04:24 PM
This move was all about "selling" El Duque's contract for Chris Young, just as we "sold" Gio for a bigger chunk of cash in conjunction w/ the Thome deal.

If we had Young in LF, who would be leading off?

There's no guarantee that Young will be any better than Fields or Sweeney, 5-10 years from now.

The odds are the Sox will come out on top because they had an abundance of outfielders and could afford to shed from that depth.

It's not unlike what happened in CLE with Sexson, Casey, Giles, Branyan, etc. There's simply no place to play everyone.

KW took a risk which hasn't worked YET, but what 5th starters in baseball would you prefer? If he was brought in to do what Todd Ritchie or David Wells were in 01 and 02, then you could call it an unqualified disaster.

Young doesn't have the arm to play CF...Anderson was the better all-around option from an offensive and defensive perspective.

As I wrote before, El Duque and Vizcaino straight up for Vazquez would have been a bad trade from the Sox perspective given the results so far. The El Duque/McCarthy combo was a better #5 starter last year than Vazquez has been this year. Chris Young could have been used for a more useful player or could have spent another two years in the minors while the Sox searched for shortstop who could lead off.

maurice
08-24-2006, 04:29 PM
Good job, Chris. Keep it up.

Young [i]s capable of hitting 30 homers, 50 doubles and stealing 30 bases
There were alot of people that felt this way about Jeremy Reed

Actually, the BB Ass Licking Society thought that Reed would have a .400 OBP, and nothing else mattered to them. (They also predicted that Garcia would suck. Surprisingly, those posters all disappeared during our championship campaign.) OTOH, from a tools standpoint (especially power and speed), everybody recognizes that Young >>> Reed.

balke
08-24-2006, 04:35 PM
As I wrote before, El Duque and Vizcaino straight up for Vazquez would have been a bad trade from the Sox perspective given the results so far. The El Duque/McCarthy combo was a better #5 starter last year than Vazquez has been this year. Chris Young could have been used for a more useful player or could have spent another two years in the minors while the Sox searched for shortstop who could lead off.

Vizcaino was this bullpens weakest link last season. El Duque is an injury threat, whom had fewer wins last season than Vazquez does now. They are statistically similar pitchers, one is just way younger and less injury prone.

I'll miss El Duque's playoff intensity and Gio as a prospect. But I think this trade was for the better. We trimmed a lot of fat with that deal. Yeah Viz is doing well this season. When he was in Chicago he was "Viz the Fizz". I don't care what the Sox paid as so long as I never have to hear that nickname for a Sox player again.

HotelWhiteSox
08-24-2006, 05:36 PM
Vizcaino was this bullpens weakest link last season.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/images/headshot_1547.jpg

Hello?

balke
08-24-2006, 05:50 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/card/images/headshot_1547.jpg


They were basically the same pitcher. neither is missed.

102605
08-24-2006, 06:11 PM
I was at the Giants game yesterday sitting out by Center Field. Got to see Young play up close and in person. I came away very impressed. He looked very solid in the field and also came up with a 2 run HR.


KW did the right thing though. None of us should ever consider questioning a decision he makes. Hello? WORLD SERIES.

Young may turn out to be an All-Star and Vazquez may just keep being Vazquez. But I'll never question KW, ever. Remember 10-26-05

caulfield12
08-24-2006, 06:16 PM
As I wrote before, El Duque and Vizcaino straight up for Vazquez would have been a bad trade from the Sox perspective given the results so far. The El Duque/McCarthy combo was a better #5 starter last year than Vazquez has been this year. Chris Young could have been used for a more useful player or could have spent another two years in the minors while the Sox searched for shortstop who could lead off.

Were you out there campaigning for El Duque to come back and rejoin the starting rotation? If you were, I applaud you, but I don't think, after what we saw with El Duque coming down the stretch, that many wouldn't have cried bloody murder saying KW was insane to bring back Orlando. Almost everyone here was thinking we wouldn't be able to deal him without parting with a significant chunk of salary.

Tragg
08-24-2006, 07:07 PM
If you are going to take a flyer on Vasquez, you do it for a bargain price. YOu give them the proven El D and Viz for the erratic Vasquez.
When you take the risk, you should get a much greater upside possibility...we didn't.

The Sox never viewed Reed as a top prospect (BP did, but the Sox didn't)...I think we overpaid for Garcia on paper (2 of our top 10 prospects and a starting catcher for a decent free-agent-to-be pitcher) but at least the Sox knew that the 2 prospects were sort of phony. Young wasn't.

Frater Perdurabo
08-24-2006, 07:29 PM
Were you out there campaigning for El Duque to come back and rejoin the starting rotation? If you were, I applaud you, but I don't think, after what we saw with El Duque coming down the stretch, that many wouldn't have cried bloody murder saying KW was insane to bring back Orlando. Almost everyone here was thinking we wouldn't be able to deal him without parting with a significant chunk of salary.

No, I fully supported putting McCarthy in the rotation and using El Duque in a long relief role. Now that train has sailed.
:tongue:

A. Cavatica
08-24-2006, 08:24 PM
Actually, the BB Ass Licking Society thought that Reed would have a .400 OBP, and nothing else mattered to them. (They also predicted that Garcia would suck. Surprisingly, those posters all disappeared during our championship campaign.) OTOH, from a tools standpoint (especially power and speed), everybody recognizes that Young >>> Reed.

Thread hijack...but I will stand up and say I thought Reed would turn into an excellent major league player, and I was wrong about it, and I'm still here. But I'm not a BB Ass Licking Society member (too funny!) and I never claimed Reed > Young, just Reed > Borchard.

maurice
08-24-2006, 08:56 PM
Yeah, I don't think anybody suspected that Reed would be a total bust . . . just a player with limited tools (especially power). I'm as surprised as anybody that he hasn't been able to hit for AVE thus far. That's the one tool he appeared to have over Young.

- - -

I suspect that the Duke would've lost his mind if Ozzie told him that he couldn't start.

A. Cavatica
08-24-2006, 09:08 PM
Yeah, I don't think anybody suspected that Reed would be a total bust . . . just a player with limited tools (especially power). I'm as surprised as anybody that he hasn't been able to hit for AVE thus far. That's the one tool he appeared to have over Young.

At this point, his prospects have diminished to the point where the Sox might be able to acquire him as a 4th OF. Can play all three positions, plays smart, plays hard, capable of hitting .400 over 10 at bats. That's what you & Randar & others were projecting, right?

Grzegorz
08-27-2006, 06:54 AM
The Sox never viewed Reed as a top prospect (BP did, but the Sox didn't)...I think we overpaid for Garcia on paper (2 of our top 10 prospects and a starting catcher for a decent free-agent-to-be pitcher) but at least the Sox knew that the 2 prospects were sort of phony. Young wasn't.
Who could argue with the Garcia move? Last year he was an anchor that helped deliver a World Series championship.

I do not know what happened to Reed; I know he was hurt at the beginning of the year.

If by the second prospect you mean Olivo, then I'd say he just took longer to develop.

I'd take Olivo back in a heartbeat.