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View Full Version : *Official*, it's Santana, what else is new postgame thread*


jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 04:59 PM
9-20
once we started coming back cotts sucks it up again.

:cotts: for :buddylee


at least tigers lose

ChiSox14305635
08-20-2006, 04:59 PM
Was hoping Javy would prove all the naysayers wrong for this one. :mad:

Off to Detroit. Continue with what worked last week.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:00 PM
cmon jose we need ya tomorrow

gobears1987
08-20-2006, 05:00 PM
We should ship Javy out this offseason, NOT Freddy.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:00 PM
9-20
once we started coming back cotts sucks it up again.

:cotts: for :buddylee


at least tigers lose
You are annoying. Trade Cotts for a bag of balls? Unreal...

A. Cavatica
08-20-2006, 05:01 PM
We should ship Javy out this offseason, NOT Freddy.

Ship 'em both out!

chisoxmike
08-20-2006, 05:01 PM
How about Vazquez sucking, and another lifeless effort against Santana. It's amazing to me that the Sox see Santana and Nathan 4 times a year and can't do **** against them. It's truley getting annoying.

SoxFan78
08-20-2006, 05:02 PM
Somebody tell White Sox pitchers, every time the offense scores, they don't have to let up runs in their half of the inning.

****ing pathetic. Lose a chance to go 4 1/2 back against detroit, one game up on Minnesota. Great showing today.

Brian26
08-20-2006, 05:02 PM
You are annoying. Trade Cotts for a bag of balls? Unreal...

Seriously, this guy is just annoying this **** out of me too. I guess I'll fire up the ignore function.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:03 PM
Go ahead....I dare anyone to still defend bringing in Cotts this year....yet another homer given up at a crucial time....I dare you.

And bring up something other than he was good last year....

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:03 PM
screw u guys in only 14 and a huge sox fan cant believe a sox fan can be a *******

southwstchi4life
08-20-2006, 05:03 PM
well, lets just say im not surprised. Im actually still happy bout yesterday. We can out of here 1 game up. I know they sucked today, but lets get the tigers. Im more happy we didnt get swept than then the lose today.

Credefan21
08-20-2006, 05:04 PM
I just do not understand why the whole freakin world can see a Javy inning coming, or that Neal Cotts should not be put in the game during certain situations, but Ozzie doesn't. I swear I am sick and tired of him not pulling the pitchers until way too late, or putting Cotts in all the freakin time. Why not Riske? I do not understand what is so ******* hard for Ozzie to understand when the whole world sees it coming every damn time. I am pissed. Nice offense in the 8th, but once again Ozzie leaving Javy in too long cost us the game. Thanks alot.

Justagirl
08-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Well, that sucked. Now bring on the kitties!! :redneck

Foulke You
08-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Well, I said going into this series that we can't get swept. We didn't and we leave Minnesota with the wild card lead intact. The game that we needed was the Boof Bonser game on Friday. Once again, the offense isn't clicking because we aren't hitting home runs.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:04 PM
screw u guys in only 14 and a huge sox fan cant believe a sox fan can be a *******

Baby needs a bottle. Maybe a nap, too. LOL!

Brian26
08-20-2006, 05:04 PM
screw u guys in only 14 and a huge sox fan cant believe a sox fan can be a *******

Is the legal drinking age 12 in Kentucky?

Boondock Saint
08-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Will the real White Sox PLEASE stand up???

NDSox12
08-20-2006, 05:05 PM
Yes, we all know Cotts is struggling now, but that has little to do with this game. Another bad outing for Vazquez and a good one for Santana.

Detroit is very vulnerable right now. Let's take it to 'em.

ChiSox14305635
08-20-2006, 05:06 PM
I swear it's like the Sox are the only team in the AL that this man holds to under 2-3 runs every start. Just once, I want to see them put a serious crooked number off of him. I got excited that it might happen when Thome took him deep at the Cell early in the season, but after that, squat.


Javy has inherited the "big inning" from Garland. :whiner:

At least it wasn't the 6th. :redneck

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:07 PM
Yes, we all know Cotts is struggling now, but that has little to do with this game. Another bad outing for Vazquez and a good one for Santana.

Detroit is very vulnerable right now. Let's take it to 'em.
or sp atleast we got jose tomorrow

DickAllen72
08-20-2006, 05:07 PM
Nice right-handed lineup against Santana today, Ozzie. That always works so well for you against Johan.

Brian26
08-20-2006, 05:07 PM
I just do not understand why the whole freakin world can see a Javy inning coming, or that Neal Cotts should not be put in the game during certain situations, but Ozzie doesn't. I swear I am sick and tired of him not pulling the pitchers until way too late, or putting Cotts in all the freakin time. Why not Riske? I do not understand what is so ******* hard for Ozzie to understand when the whole world sees it coming every damn time. I am pissed. Nice offense in the 8th, but once again Ozzie leaving Javy in too long cost us the game. Thanks alot.

Keep whining about Cotts. That had nothing to do with today's loss. We were in the hole to begin with and no way in hell going to score two off Nathan to even tie it. Santana kicked our asses, end of story. Let's sweep Detroit.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:07 PM
Yes, we all know Cotts is struggling now, but that has little to do with this game. Another bad outing for Vazquez and a good one for Santana.

Detroit is very vulnerable right now. Let's take it to 'em.

He gave up a two run homer in the one inning he pitched and doubled our deficit after we had just pulled into a threat position.

I think he had much to do with this game.

stl_sox_fan
08-20-2006, 05:08 PM
On a bright note, when the Sox are in the playoffs, Javy will make a great bullpen pitcher, seeing as how he is good for about three innings.
Can't wait until the 4 man rotation!!!!!

sox1970
08-20-2006, 05:09 PM
Nothing to sweat about today. Just move on. 4 wins a week for 6 weeks gets us in the playoffs.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:09 PM
Keep whining about Cotts. That had nothing to do with today's loss. We were in the hole to begin with and no way in hell going to score two off Nathan to even tie it. Santana kicked our asses, end of story. Let's sweep Detroit.

Thank you.

Nathan is lights out. The game was over after the 8th, on Cintron's pop-up. You wanted to win the game, you had to do it against Dennys Reyes. Cotts did not lose this game.

Credefan21
08-20-2006, 05:10 PM
Baby needs a bottle. Maybe a nap, too. LOL!

Good gosh. Lay off of the guy. The holier than thou attitude on this board really gets old.

Brian26
08-20-2006, 05:10 PM
He gave up a two run homer in the one inning he pitched and doubled our deficit after we had just pulled into a threat position.

I think he had much to do with this game.

Please. So if were only going into the 9th down by two (instead of four), we would have had a better chance? That 9th inning would have happened the same way. Strikeout, groundout, groundout. Tip your hat to Santana and get the Tigers.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:10 PM
Thank you.

Nathan is lights out. The game was over after the 8th, on Cintron's pop-up. You wanted to win the game, you had to do it against Dennys Reyes. Cotts did not lose this game.
nathans no gange

Gavin
08-20-2006, 05:10 PM
The Sox pitching staff sucks this year?

The Sox aren't going anywhere if their pitching doesn't turn a corner. There's no point getting upset about it, that's just the way it is for a lot of teams.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:10 PM
Keep whining about Cotts. That had nothing to do with today's loss. We were in the hole to begin with and no way in hell going to score two off Nathan to even tie it. Santana kicked our asses, end of story. Let's sweep Detroit.

The game is not 7 innings, its 9. We made headway against the MN pen, Cotts blew the progress....you can't limit to the position that "everything was lost by the time Cotts came in".

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:10 PM
nathans no gange
He's better. Way better.

Edit: I assume you meant Gagne. I guess they don't teach you spelling or punctuation in school anymore.

DickAllen72
08-20-2006, 05:11 PM
I swear it's like the Sox are the only team in the AL that this man holds to under 2-3 runs every start. Just once, I want to see them put a serious crooked number off of him. I got excited that it might happen when Thome took him deep at the Cell early in the season, but after that, squat.


Lefties hit Santana much better than righties. It takes his changeup away and breaks up his rhythm. I guess Ozzie doesn't know about this yet.

Gavin
08-20-2006, 05:11 PM
Baby needs a bottle. Maybe a nap, too. LOL!

Did you really laugh out loud?

Brian26
08-20-2006, 05:12 PM
nathans no gange

Right, he hasn't been on the DL for most of the past two years. Give me Nathan any day of the week.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:13 PM
w/e man i dont wanna spend my time on this sitte fighting so sorry for whatever i did.

Palehose13
08-20-2006, 05:13 PM
nathans no gange

Gange? Who the hell is that?

If you mean Eric Gagne, well if you haven't noticed he hasn't been around much since '04.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:14 PM
Please. So if were only going into the 9th down by two (instead of four), we would have had a better chance? That 9th inning would have happened the same way. Strikeout, groundout, groundout. Tip your hat to Santana and get the Tigers.

Yeah, you have better chance to come back from a 2 run deficit than a 4.

Anyone agree with this statement, I thought it was pretty self-evident. Maybe it's me?

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:14 PM
Gange? Who the hell is that?

If you mean Eric Gagne, well if you haven't noticed he hasn't been around much since '04.

Maybe he's smoking the gange...

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:15 PM
Yeah, you have better chance to come back from a 2 run deficit than a 4.

Anyone agree with this statement, I thought it was pretty self-evident. Maybe it's me?
i do

ZombieRob
08-20-2006, 05:15 PM
Im on the bring back Logan bandwagon.I mean why not like i said in the game thread could he be any worse? And maybe a little shake up by demoting Cotts might lite a fire who knows .But this can't continue ,he become a complete rally killer.

Mohoney
08-20-2006, 05:16 PM
He gave up a two run homer in the one inning he pitched and doubled our deficit after we had just pulled into a threat position.

I think he had much to do with this game.

Ding ding ding!

Cotts sucked, plain and simple. Right now, he has no idea where the ball is going, and should be the last resort in a meaningful situation, not the first damn guy brought in.

McCarthy was a better option. Riske was a better option. It's that simple.

CYGarland20
08-20-2006, 05:17 PM
The Sox pitching staff sucks this year?

The Sox aren't going anywhere if their pitching doesn't turn a corner. There's no point getting upset about it, that's just the way it is for a lot of teams.


Actually the Sox aren't going anywhere if their offense doesn't start picking it up. I think the pitching is what it is, and we have to live with it at this point. Let's just hope that IF we make the playoffs, that they all get hot at the same time like last year.

Brian26
08-20-2006, 05:17 PM
Im on the bring back Logan bandwagon.I mean why not like i said in the game thread could he be any worse?

Yeah, it could be worse. Cotts at least got an out in the 8th inning.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:17 PM
Some people are truly delusional if they thought that we could get 2 runs off of Nathan. That was the perfect time to bring Cotts in and get his head on straight. Didn't work out, but who cares, the game was over at that point anyway.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:17 PM
iight i think its time to forgot about this game and start thinking about Detroit, there not to hot either after blowing a 6-0 lead.

SoxandtheCityTee
08-20-2006, 05:18 PM
w/e man i dont wanna spend my time on this sitte fighting so sorry for whatever i did.

Don't worry about it. Some grown-ups here also post with spelling errors, and they draw comments too. Tough loss today and sometimes people don't control their tempers.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:18 PM
Some people are truly delusional if they thought that we could get 2 runs off of Nathan. That was the perfect time to bring Cotts in and get his head on straight. Didn't work out, but who cares, the game was over at that point anyway.
perfect time is when were losing by 10.

Gavin
08-20-2006, 05:18 PM
Please. So if were only going into the 9th down by two (instead of four), we would have had a better chance? That 9th inning would have happened the same way. Strikeout, groundout, groundout. Tip your hat to Santana and get the Tigers.

Yes: if players played like robots and committed the same actions no matter what the situation, thus preventing emotions, mood, and other reflections of hu-man temperment affect their actions then this logic holds completely.

buehrle4cy05
08-20-2006, 05:19 PM
nathans no gange

:rolleyes:

When I'm compiling a list of top closers in baseball, Joe Nathan is certainly on it.

digdagdug23
08-20-2006, 05:19 PM
Well that sucked. I don't know that Cotts gave the game to the Twinks, but I do know it sure as heck didn't help. Javie didn't do too bad after the 'one big inning', although IIRC the 1BI was started on an error not of his doing, there were quite a few balls that Ozuna should have had in left, and the team as a whole was just not there. You can't hardly heap that on Vasquez's shoulders, as well. He needs to get out of his own head and get back in the game, but so does the rest of the team.

That being said, I really cringe when Vasquez comes in through the rotation, you just don't know which one is going to show up, and Cotts, just ick.

As far as the posts before this point, there is a point of frustration with the team this season, and we are ALL Feeling it, whether we admit to it or not. However, that does not give you the right to police anyone except yourself. Point of note, if you wouldn't say it to someone in person, you shouldn't be saying it on a message board.

Now let's kick those kitties while they're down. Was anyone paying attention to what Texas did to them? Hope so..........

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:19 PM
:rolleyes:

When I'm compiling a list of top closers in baseball, Joe Nathan is certainly on it.
dosnt mean its unheard of though

nebraskasox
08-20-2006, 05:20 PM
Lefties hit Santana much better than righties. It takes his changeup away and breaks up his rhythm. I guess Ozzie doesn't know about this yet.

His ERA is almost a full run higher against lefties. Ozzie must know this. All you have to do is look up the splits.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:20 PM
Yes: if players played like robots and committed the same actions no matter what the situation, thus preventing emotions, mood, and other reflections of hu-man temperment affect their actions then this logic holds completely.

That's faulty logic. But the point is that the odds were stacked against us when Nathan came in. Granted, much more so down 4 instead of 2, but even with a 2 run deficit, it would have taken a near miracle to pull out a win. Especially with Pods and Mack batting.

Mohoney
08-20-2006, 05:21 PM
Some people are truly delusional if they thought that we could get 2 runs off of Nathan. That was the perfect time to bring Cotts in and get his head on straight. Didn't work out, but who cares, the game was over at that point anyway.

Wow. That's a cardinal sin right there. Admitting defeat when you're only down 2 in the 8th, with the highest scoring offense in the league?

That's Dark Cloud stuff.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-20-2006, 05:21 PM
So we lose 2 of 3 to the Twins. It's over.

Go beat up on the Tigers and focus on the division.

ZombieRob
08-20-2006, 05:22 PM
Yeah, it could be worse. Cotts at least got an out in the 8th inning.

Yea. after he give up the game as usual.The thing i remember about Logan and his problems was more his fielding then his pitching.And he not doing to bad down on the farm.

Lip Man 1
08-20-2006, 05:23 PM
Well at least they got a win. That's about all you can hope for when Santana pitches against the Sox and Ozzie absolutely refuses to put any left handers in the lineup even though the splits are something like .280 vs. 210.

They need to play better against Detroit.

Lip

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:23 PM
I cant believe the ump is suddenly forgotten.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:24 PM
Some people are truly delusional if they thought that we could get 2 runs off of Nathan. That was the perfect time to bring Cotts in and get his head on straight. Didn't work out, but who cares, the game was over at that point anyway.

I really can not believe this statement.

Man, I am glad you are not on any team of mine, because I could not take that attitude.

Yeah, we should have just forfeited the game, you're right.

CYGarland20
08-20-2006, 05:25 PM
Thank you.

Nathan is lights out. The game was over after the 8th, on Cintron's pop-up. You wanted to win the game, you had to do it against Dennys Reyes. Cotts did not lose this game. I agree. Cintron swinging at ball 3 and popping it up was the end of the game IMO. Not sure why Oz didnt leave Uribe in there, Rincon was struggling, and Cintron hasnt hit RH in quite a while. Not to mention, Uribe kills LH, if Gardenhire decided to bring him in there

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:25 PM
Wow. That's a cardinal sin right there. Admitting defeat when you're only down 2 in the 8th, with the highest scoring offense in the league?

That's Dark Cloud stuff.

Yes, with the mighty Pods and Mack due up, against the best closer in baseball right now, Joe Nathan. The same Joe Nathan who has 72 K's in 51 inn, and whom opponents are slugging a paltry .262 against.

I'm being rational here. The game was more or less over. Yes, it is possible that Nathan could have gone out there and crapped the bed, but that's wishful thinking. If you are blaming this loss on Cotts because he gave up two runs, which some people around here seem to assume would have been scored in the top of the ninth, then you are being irrational.

caulfield12
08-20-2006, 05:26 PM
I just do not understand why the whole freakin world can see a Javy inning coming, or that Neal Cotts should not be put in the game during certain situations, but Ozzie doesn't. I swear I am sick and tired of him not pulling the pitchers until way too late, or putting Cotts in all the freakin time. Why not Riske? I do not understand what is so ******* hard for Ozzie to understand when the whole world sees it coming every damn time. I am pissed. Nice offense in the 8th, but once again Ozzie leaving Javy in too long cost us the game. Thanks alot.

So, you want them to pull Javier out of the game when he would have been out of the inning (keep in mind, this was the 3rd) had his defense not made ONE, but THREE mistakes behind him in one inning? That's just stupid and idiotic. We have seven huge games in a row coming up, there's not a single reason to waste our pen, especially against Santana. The same thing happened to Radke last night, the defense played like crap behind him too.

In the inning four scored, it should have been a runner on first and one out and that runner might have been doubled up by the liner to Iguchi.

Not to mention the fact that Ozuna played the ball that dropped in front of him very tentatively. A good, confident LF probably would have gotten a better jump and caught it. Ozuna plays way too far back because he's horrible going back on a ball....but the alignment gives the opposition too much space to hit in front, especially LH slap hitters like Castillo and Punto.

Criticize OG for not taking Cotts out against Hunter, or not putting Riske in to start the inning in the first place.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:27 PM
Yes, with the mighty Pods and Mack due up, against the best closer in baseball right now, Joe Nathan. The same Joe Nathan who has 72 K's in 51 inn, and whom opponents are slugging a paltry .262 against.

I'm being rational here. The game was more or less over. Yes, it is possible that Nathan could have gone out there and crapped the bed, but that's wishful thinking. If you are blaming this loss on Cotts because he gave up two runs, which some people around here seem to assume would have been scored in the top of the ninth, then you are being irrational.
nice confidence you have in our team.

Brian26
08-20-2006, 05:27 PM
Wow. That's a cardinal sin right there. Admitting defeat when you're only down 2 in the 8th, with the highest scoring offense in the league?

That's Dark Cloud stuff.

What's insane is that people find it much easier to pin the loss on Cotts because he gave up an extra two runs that somehow changed the emotions of the team and caused them not to try hard enough in the 9th inning off one of the top three or four closers in baseball, when they were already in a super-difficult situation to begin with even before those two runs were given up.

It's easier to blame Cotts than to blame: Vazquez serving up sliders with no movement on them, terrible umpiring, Konerko's error in the first, questionable pitch calling by Alomar, poor baserunning by Crede, Cintron and Pods being selfish at the plate, etc.

Corlose 15
08-20-2006, 05:27 PM
I just do not understand why the whole freakin world can see a Javy inning coming, or that Neal Cotts should not be put in the game during certain situations, but Ozzie doesn't. I swear I am sick and tired of him not pulling the pitchers until way too late, or putting Cotts in all the freakin time. Why not Riske? I do not understand what is so ******* hard for Ozzie to understand when the whole world sees it coming every damn time. I am pissed. Nice offense in the 8th, but once again Ozzie leaving Javy in too long cost us the game. Thanks alot.

So he's supposed to take him out after the 2nd inning? The Twins got their big inning in the third, there's not a whole lot Ozzie can do about it.

Gavin
08-20-2006, 05:27 PM
Yes, with the mighty Pods and Mack due up, against the best closer in baseball right now, Joe Nathan. The same Joe Nathan who has 72 K's in 51 inn, and whom opponents are slugging a paltry .262 against.

I'm being rational here. The game was more or less over. Yes, it is possible that Nathan could have gone out there and crapped the bed, but that's wishful thinking. If you are blaming this loss on Cotts because he gave up two runs, which some people around here seem to assume would have been scored in the top of the ninth, then you are being irrational.

http://amysrobot.com/files/cryinggob.JPG
Robot.

Palehose13
08-20-2006, 05:27 PM
dosnt mean its unheard of though

Ok, I can't stand this anymore. Please try using the 'Spell Check". Thank you.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:28 PM
What's insane is that people find it much easier to pin the loss on Cotts because he gave up an extra two runs that somehow changed the emotions of the team and caused them not to try hard enough in the 9th inning off one of the top three or four closers in baseball, when they were already in a super-difficult situation to begin with even before those two runs were given up.

It's easier to blame Cotts than to blame: Vazquez serving up sliders with no movement on them, terrible umpiring, Konerko's error in the first, questionable pitch calling by Alomar, poor baserunning by Crede, Cintron and Pods being selfish at the plate, etc.
the momentum was just starting to switch before he came in.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:29 PM
Yes, with the mighty Pods and Mack due up, against the best closer in baseball right now, Joe Nathan. The same Joe Nathan who has 72 K's in 51 inn, and whom opponents are slugging a paltry .262 against.

I'm being rational here. The game was more or less over. Yes, it is possible that Nathan could have gone out there and crapped the bed, but that's wishful thinking. If you are blaming this loss on Cotts because he gave up two runs, which some people around here seem to assume would have been scored in the top of the ninth, then you are being irrational.

Why did the Sox even play the game....I mean, we were going up against the infalible Santana and Nathan...why try?

Is this the point of your argument?

I just never heard of anyone actually saying that....here is props to you.

Say that to a coach of yours and see if your bags aren't packed for you before the game is over.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:31 PM
nice confidence you have in our team.

You've got to be ****ing kidding me. You were in the gamethread crapping on the White Sox at any chance. Hell, I seem to be one of the few who have confidence in Neal Cotts. He hasn't been pretty out there, but he's a hell of a lot better than Boone Logan, or anybody else the Sox could bring up.

I have plenty of confidence in this team, more than you, I'd wager. But I'm not going to be a Pollyanna and call for the head of Neal Cotts because he gave up a 2-run homer to Torii Hunter. Come on.

Justagirl
08-20-2006, 05:32 PM
Baby needs a bottle. Maybe a nap, too. LOL!
Is this not a family/kid friendly site? The 14 year old seems less of a baby to me than some *adults* on this board. Seriously.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:32 PM
i said my stuff when they scored 4 out of anger and the very next inning i apologized. its just stressful watching javy pitch but you apparently are not saying this out of anger.

caulfield12
08-20-2006, 05:33 PM
Why did the Sox even play the game....I mean, we were going up against the infalible Santana and Nathan...why try?

Is this the point of your argument?

I just never heard of anyone actually saying that....here is props to you.

Say that to a coach of yours and see if your bags aren't packed for you before the game is over.

Sounds like something Garcia would have said if he took the loss today...well, nobody has beaten Santana at Dome and they're 22-5 when he starts, so I'm not even going to try.

Well, we tried against Clemens, Pettitte, and, most impressively, dug out of a huge hole against Oswalt in Game 3. IT CAN BE DONE.

Hitmen77
08-20-2006, 05:33 PM
Well, I said going into this series that we can't get swept. We didn't and we leave Minnesota with the wild card lead intact. The game that we needed was the Boof Bonser game on Friday. Once again, the offense isn't clicking because we aren't hitting home runs.

That's exactly how I feel. I knew going into this game - into this series for that matter - that our chances of winning a game against Santana were pretty low. I'm more disappointed in our loss to Boof on Friday. Those are the games we need to win.

Oh well, on to Detroit to face the slumping Tigers.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:35 PM
You've got to be ****ing kidding me. You were in the gamethread crapping on the White Sox at any chance. Hell, I seem to be one of the few who have confidence in Neal Cotts. He hasn't been pretty out there, but he's a hell of a lot better than Boone Logan, or anybody else the Sox could bring up.

I have plenty of confidence in this team, more than you, I'd wager. But I'm not going to be a Pollyanna and call for the head of Neal Cotts because he gave up a 2-run homer to Torii Hunter. Come on.


Wait...wait...I have to call bull on this one...

You are the one advocating that the game was over in the 8th...and Cotts really did not matter, because he is brought in when we have the insurmountable 2 run deficit.

But you have confidence in the Sox and Cotts????

This line of reasoning just gets better and better.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:36 PM
Wheres all the love for Jose he might be the best pitcher in the MLB.

caulfield12
08-20-2006, 05:37 PM
And we can go back and look at games like Wasdin, Chen, Hudson, Hernandez and Bernero, but it doesn't do any good.

We just need to take care of business in DET and then come back and take at least 2 of 3 this weekend from Minnesota.

Minnesota has to start Bonser, Garza and Silva against the Orioles, so there's a pretty good chance they will split those games, just as we split a four game series with KC.

Mohoney
08-20-2006, 05:37 PM
If you are blaming this loss on Cotts because he gave up two runs, which some people around here seem to assume would have been scored in the top of the ninth, then you are being irrational.

There is plenty of blame to go around for this loss.

In Vazquez's big inning, the Twins got a free baserunner on Paulie's error, and got 2nd base free twice on Pablo and BA mistakes. Even with a runner being nailed at home, it's still a pretty bad inning defensively.

Vazquez gets blame, too. Way too many mistakes to an aggressive, opportunistic group of hitters like this. It plays right into their mentality to throw first-pitch fastball, and Vazquez did it too often. He didn't change it up very much and make necessary adjustments.

But to defend Cotts' doo-doo performance by saying that the game was over before the 9th even started is something that I can't agree with at all. Nathan had ZERO pressure when the lead doubled in the bottom of the 8th thanks to Cotts. Maybe he mows us down in order the same way, but I think that we have a MUCH better chance of getting to him if there's a little bit more pressure in that situation. We have gotten to guys before when the pressure's on.

samram
08-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Yes, with the mighty Pods and Mack due up, against the best closer in baseball right now, Joe Nathan. The same Joe Nathan who has 72 K's in 51 inn, and whom opponents are slugging a paltry .262 against.

I'm being rational here. The game was more or less over. Yes, it is possible that Nathan could have gone out there and crapped the bed, but that's wishful thinking. If you are blaming this loss on Cotts because he gave up two runs, which some people around here seem to assume would have been scored in the top of the ninth, then you are being irrational.

No one is assuming that they would get 2 runs. You're assuming that it's no more difficult to get 4 than it is to get 2. If they had gone into the 9th down 2, one runner makes things very interesting. Cotts is not to blame for the loss, but he is to blame for removing any hope going into the 9th.

MarySwiss
08-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Yes, with the mighty Pods and Mack due up, against the best closer in baseball right now, Joe Nathan. The same Joe Nathan who has 72 K's in 51 inn, and whom opponents are slugging a paltry .262 against.

I'm being rational here. The game was more or less over. Yes, it is possible that Nathan could have gone out there and crapped the bed, but that's wishful thinking. If you are blaming this loss on Cotts because he gave up two runs, which some people around here seem to assume would have been scored in the top of the ninth, then you are being irrational.

Sorry, but "more or less over" isn't over. (Yogi Berra, maybe?)

I think that, knowing the Tigers just lost and you have a golden opportunity to gain ground--and probably a hell of a psychological edge--going to Detroit, you have to try to get this game, which means bringing in someone like Riske. And of course, you can't assume the Sox would've tied it or taken the lead in the ninth, but it's a hell of a lot easier to get two runs than it is to get four.

I agree that you cannot blame the loss entirely on Cotts, but that blast to Hunter did basically put a game that MIGHT have been within reach pretty much out of reach.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Why did the Sox even play the game....I mean, we were going up against the infalible Santana and Nathan...why try?

Is this the point of your argument?

I just never heard of anyone actually saying that....here is props to you.

Say that to a coach of yours and see if your bags aren't packed for you before the game is over.

You missed the point of my argument. The game was lost by a number of other things that weren't Neal Cotts. You seem to think Neal Cotts singlehandedly lost this game. I'm saying that just because the White Sox had some momentum, that doesn't mean they were going to automatically score two runs in the next inning.

Reasons the game was lost: Javy, Konerko's error, Cintron's poor AB.

caulfield12
08-20-2006, 05:38 PM
It is Santana's Cy Young to lose again after today.

caulfield12
08-20-2006, 05:39 PM
You missed the point of my argument. The game was lost by a number of other things that weren't Neal Cotts. You seem to think Neal Cotts singlehandedly lost this game. I'm saying that just because the White Sox had some momentum, that doesn't mean they were going to automatically score two runs in the next inning.

Reasons the game was lost: Javy, Konerko's error, Cintron's poor AB.

Was Radke the reason the Twins lost yesterday?

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:39 PM
You missed the point of my argument. The game was lost by a number of other things that weren't Neal Cotts. You seem to think Neal Cotts singlehandedly lost this game. I'm saying that just because the White Sox had some momentum, that doesn't mean they were going to automatically score two runs in the next inning.

Reasons the game was lost: Javy, Konerko's error, Cintron's poor AB.
Your whole point has been its impossible to score 2 off nathan.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:41 PM
No one is assuming that they would get 2 runs. You're assuming that it's no more difficult to get 4 than it is to get 2. If they had gone into the 9th down 2, one runner makes things very interesting. Cotts is not to blame for the loss, but he is to blame for removing any hope going into the 9th.

I disagree. I feel like people are assuming they would have gotten two runs in the ninth. And I'm not assuming that it's no more difficult to get 4 runs as it is 2. The issue I'm having here is that people are quick to crap on Neal Cotts, while at the same time show no respect to Joe Nathan.

jacobwalls
08-20-2006, 05:42 PM
I disagree. I feel like people are assuming they would have gotten two runs in the ninth. And I'm not assuming that it's no more difficult to get 4 runs as it is 2. The issue I'm having here is that people are quick to crap on Neal Cotts, while at the same time show no respect to Joe Nathan.
You show no respect to the sox lineup.

Mohoney
08-20-2006, 05:44 PM
Was Radke the reason the Twins lost yesterday?

Garland was the reason the Twins lost yesterday. :yup:

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:44 PM
Reasons the game was lost: Javy, Konerko's error, Cintron's poor AB.

I agree, although Konerko has 4 errors on the year..he gets a pass on that, and Javy shoud be able to pitch around that...which he consistantly does not.

Also, you forgot Cotts....he, just like Javy, constantly has lapses...he gets behind someone and grooves a pitch to get it over and it gets whacked...then Neal wonders why, throws his glove and hits the bench repeatedly with his hand.

We have seen this act before, and I don't give him a free pass for it.

Kub_Killer_15
08-20-2006, 05:44 PM
Glad I went back to Illinois this morning instead of staying for todays game! Nothing to say other than they went against a Cy Young award pitcher and got beat so lets go to Detroit and have a better series.

Justagirl
08-20-2006, 05:46 PM
Garland was the reason the Twins lost yesterday. :yup:

Nice. :thumbsup:

Foulke You
08-20-2006, 05:53 PM
Also, you forgot Cotts....he, just like Javy, constantly has lapses...he gets behind someone and grooves a pitch to get it over and it gets whacked...then Neal wonders why, throws his glove and hits the bench repeatedly with his hand.

We have seen this act before, and I don't give him a free pass for it.
Agreed. For the better part of the year this has not been the 2005 Neal Cotts. His E.R.A. is very deceptive too because he has allowed a ton of inherited runners to score. The difference in Cotts this year versus last year seems to be velocity and not location. He has located some of his pitches in decent spots but there isn't enough mustard on them to fool the hitters anymore. That cut fastball of his was coming in at 95-96mph consistently last year and now is down to 90-91mph in 2006. Cotts doesn't seem to have the moxy to get outs without his velocity much like Politte.

I'm hoping the Sox take a long look at Tracy, Haegar, Redding, or even possibly Dustin Hermanson to fill a bullpen need after September call-ups because right now, I have zero confidence in Neal coming into pressure situations.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 05:54 PM
You show no respect to the sox lineup.
Small sample size, but it'll have to do:

Podsednik (2006 vs. Nathan): 0-3
AJ (2006 vs. Nathan): 0-3
Mackowiak (2006 vs. Nathan): 0-4
White Sox (2006 vs. Nathan): 3-21

Look, the White Sox have a devastating lineup. There's no question about it. But there are some pitchers out there that just have our number. Santana and Nathan are two of them. Why is that such a hard pill to swallow? I'm more upset about losing the first game of this series than this one.

Would it have been easier to win if Cotts hadn't given up that homerun? Yes.
Did Cotts lose the game for us? No. And I can't believe so many people are so quick to give up on him. You say I have no confidence in this team, yet I want to give Neal whatever he needs because he's a damn fine pitcher. I would think true Sox fans would want him to succeed, but so many people want to ride him out on a rail for Boone Logan. Boone Logan! We already tried that once, or have you forgotten that already?

caulfield12
08-20-2006, 05:55 PM
I agree, although Konerko has 4 errors on the year..he gets a pass on that, and Javy shoud be able to pitch around that...which he consistantly does not.

Also, you forgot Cotts....he, just like Javy, constantly has lapses...he gets behind someone and grooves a pitch to get it over and it gets whacked...then Neal wonders why, throws his glove and hits the bench repeatedly with his hand.

We have seen this act before, and I don't give him a free pass for it.

Do you give Ozuna and Anderson passes as well for their ridiculous decision-making that allowed additional runners to get into scoring position and prevented double play balls from being set up?

You have to play a perfect game to beat Santana on the road, just as the Twins would have had to play a near-perfect game to beat Garland (the one run scored due to an error).

caulfield12
08-20-2006, 05:57 PM
Anyone who thinks Haeger and Redding are going to be part of our bullpen are nuts.

Tracey and Hermanson will get a look, but they're not exactly replacements for Cotts.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 05:59 PM
Small sample size, but it'll have to do:

Podsednik (2006 vs. Nathan): 0-3
AJ (2006 vs. Nathan): 0-3
Mackowiak (2006 vs. Nathan): 0-4
White Sox (2006 vs. Nathan): 3-21

Look, the White Sox have a devastating lineup. There's no question about it. But there are some pitchers out there that just have our number. Santana and Nathan are two of them. Why is that such a hard pill to swallow? I'm more upset about losing the first game of this series than this one.

Would it have been easier to win if Cotts hadn't given up that homerun? Yes.
Did Cotts lose the game for us? No. And I can't believe so many people are so quick to give up on him. You say I have no confidence in this team, yet I want to give Neal whatever he needs because he's a damn fine pitcher. I would think true Sox fans would want him to succeed, but so many people want to ride him out on a rail for Boone Logan. Boone Logan! We already tried that once, or have you forgotten that already?

Dude, I admire your tenacity....

But you have repeatedly said the game was over in the 8th down 2...that is giving up on your team....

That, I do not admire.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 06:02 PM
Dude, I admire your tenacity....

But you have repeatedly said the game was over in the 8th down 2...that is giving up on your team....

That, I do not admire.

I said it was possible that Nathan goes out there and blows the save. But I also said that it was wishful thinking. Nathan is a stud. I thought this game was over just as I think the game is over when Bobby Jenks comes in with a lead. You can't have it both ways, can you?

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 06:03 PM
Do you give Ozuna and Anderson passes as well for their ridiculous decision-making that allowed additional runners to get into scoring position and prevented double play balls from being set up?

You have to play a perfect game to beat Santana on the road, just as the Twins would have had to play a near-perfect game to beat Garland (the one run scored due to an error).

No, I don't.....and I don't give Ozzie a pass for playing Ozuna in left, Mack in Center and bringing in Cotts repeatedly after they have all showed they can not handle those positions and situations this year.

Anderson and Ozuna should have thrown it into 2nd.

Man, I really (and I sincerely mean this) can not believe how Santana has gotten into many heads around here.....sounds like many would not even show up to play him if they were on the Sox.

If the Sox went into the game with that mindset, they lost before they even suited up.

kittle42
08-20-2006, 06:05 PM
Dude, I admire your tenacity....

But you have repeatedly said the game was over in the 8th down 2...that is giving up on your team....

That, I do not admire.

How dare you question the "there MUST be someone better" argument?

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 06:06 PM
I said it was possible that Nathan goes out there and blows the save. But I also said that it was wishful thinking. Nathan is a stud. I thought this game was over just as I think the game is over when Bobby Jenks comes in with a lead. You can't have it both ways, can you?

I can have confidence that Jenks will close it out...but I also expect that the other team thinks it can come back...if they don't, they should not be on the field.

Mohoney
08-20-2006, 06:09 PM
Anyone who thinks Haeger and Redding are going to be part of our bullpen are nuts.

Tracey and Hermanson will get a look, but they're not exactly replacements for Cotts.

Cotts doesn't need to be replaced. His role needs to be reduced.

I just think that 2 runs is too close of a deficit to put in Cotts, especially in a place that has been goofy to us for most of this decade.

If this was Cleveland, Baltimore, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, or Seattle, then I would be all for Cotts coming in. You save the rest of the bullpen for Detroit, you see if you can get a positive outing out of Cotts to boost his confidence, and worst-case scenario is that you lose a game to someone that's not directly competing with you for the AL Central and Wild Card.

Minnesota is too good of a team to try to get away with sneaking an inning out of Cotts in that situation. In fact, I think that he was our worst option in that situation, given the fact that MacDougal, Riske, and McCarthy all got the day off yesterday after Garland pitched into the 8th. That's my main beef.

1951Campbell
08-20-2006, 06:11 PM
Don't worry about it. Some grown-ups here also post with spelling errors, and they draw comments too. Tough loss today and sometimes people don't control their tempers.

We gotta kick some butt against the Tigers, because these threads after losses are just getting to be full of catty bull****, no pun intended.

And what can I say, I groaned when Cotts came in. I guess I might as well just go burn my "True Sox Fan" card at 35th & Shields.

SABRSox
08-20-2006, 06:13 PM
Looks like we need a Friends of Neal Cotts group. Count me in. I'm not giving up on him yet.

PorkChopExpress
08-20-2006, 06:14 PM
Vazquez gets blame, too. Way too many mistakes to an aggressive, opportunistic group of hitters like this. It plays right into their mentality to throw first-pitch fastball, and Vazquez did it too often. He didn't change it up very much and make necessary adjustments.

I totally agree. I saw this coming as soon as Pablo made the bad decision to throw to third. You could see it in every batter's eye as they came to the plate, they almost couldn't wait until Javy threw the pitch to swing at it. I've seen it in every game we play against those guys, and I don't know why our pitchers can't adjust to that.

As for everyone who seems to think Nathan is untouchable, there is someone on this board who has the running hit list of "untouchable" closers that the Sox have hit this year. There's no reason Nathan's name should not be added to that list.

And I just do not understand Ozzie's logic. He refuses to put lefties in to face Santana despite Santana's numbers being worse against lefties (I think it was Farmer who touched on the possible reason for this, noting that Santana stands at the third base side of the rubber which gives lefties a better look at his pitching arm as the ball is thrown, and reduces a righties chance of seeing it) but he puts Cotts in to face two righties and a lefty. C'mon Ozzie. Get your head int he game.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 06:14 PM
We gotta kick some butt against the Tigers, because these threads after losses are just getting to be full of catty bull****, no pun intended.

And what can I say, I groaned when Cotts came in. I guess I might as well just go burn my "True Sox Fan" card at 35th & Shields.

After you burn your card, we can be fitted for matching straight jackets since we thought the game was not over.

1951Campbell
08-20-2006, 06:19 PM
As for everyone who seems to think Nathan is untouchable, there is someone on this board who has the running hit list of "untouchable" closers that the Sox have hit this year. There's no reason Nathan's name should not be added to that list.


Exactly.

russ99
08-20-2006, 06:19 PM
Can't blame Javy too much on this one - he pitched reasonbly well. If the Sox weren't up against Santana, this could have been a win.

Blame goes to:

1. Home plate ump - there were 2 strike zones, one for Santana and one for everyone else. Javy would have gotten out of the third with one allowed tops if he got the same strike zone as Santana.

2. Cotts - What business does he have on the major league roster now? Every time he comes in = many runs scored vs. the Sox. I'd rather have Boone Logan in his spot now. Sept 1st can't come quick enough. Gimme Hermanson too.

3. Ozzie - 2 run deficit is no reason to bring Cotts in. This situation is looking more like Politte every day - Oz is giving him more than enough rope to hang himself. I don't want to see Cotts in the Detroit series! :angry:

4. Paulie - there no excuse for making that error. You can't give the opponent 4 outs in an inning, especially Minnesota at home.

5. Clutch hitting - Uribe in the 8th, and in the 3rd & 4th they guys just couldn't get it done. I'll excuse the guys in the 3rd & 4th since Santana's a hard nut to crack.

I hope the Sox bring their "A" game to Detroit tomorrow - I have a feeling Verlander's gonna be more tough than his last outing vs. the Sox.

Why do the Sox always stink on a getaway day?!?!? :mad: :mad:

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 06:20 PM
And I just do not understand Ozzie's logic. He refuses to put lefties in to face Santana despite Santana's numbers being worse against lefties (I think it was Farmer who touched on the possible reason for this, noting that Santana stands at the third base side of the rubber which gives lefties a better look at his pitching arm as the ball is thrown, and reduces a righties chance of seeing it) but he puts Cotts in to face two righties and a lefty. C'mon Ozzie. Get your head int he game.

I think everyone, who has paid an once of attention to the Sox has heard this stat, and understands it....except Ozzie.

Santana must look at the line-up and think, "Nah, this is a fake...Ozzie's messing with us."

BeviBall!
08-20-2006, 06:21 PM
Seriously, this guy is just annoying this **** out of me too. I guess I'll fire up the ignore function.

My ignore list is rapidly growing... it took two posts by him in the game thread to accomplish this feat. The game has put me in a surly mood.

1951Campbell
08-20-2006, 06:21 PM
After you burn your card, we can be fitted for matching straight jackets since we thought the game was not over.

I just checked the rule book, games are still 9 innings.

russ99
08-20-2006, 06:25 PM
Joe Nathan has some unbelievably nasty pitches.

I sat right behind the plate as he came out to close in the bottom of the 16th in that long "Adkins" game last year and watch the futile swings by Sox hitters against his filthy pitches. Man, he's tough.

Of all the closers the Sox have faced this year, I'd say he's the toughest to come back against. I'd put Jenks first - thank goodness we don't have to face him! :D:

Justagirl
08-20-2006, 06:26 PM
After you burn your card, we can be fitted for matching straight jackets since we thought the game was not over.
Ive seen too many 9th inning 2 out HR/ grand slam games to ever convince me that its over until its over.
I wonder how many Texas fans left the game or turned off their televisions today..

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 06:26 PM
Yes, but if a team "ships out" a pitcher every time the pitcher hits a rough patch, that means the Sox would have dumped Garland this year; Buehrle for sure; Contreras when his back was bothering him and he had that string of not-great games -- see where that goes?

Pitchers blow hot and cold. You have to hope that their hot spells are longer and stronger than their cold spells. It's called baseball.

Cotts has been commanding this year and he will be again.

Garland had a rough couple of months when the team was able to carry him.
Garland was able to show more than Cotts has, how can you keep in a reliever that keeps giving up runs....they have a shorter leash than a starter.

Calling Cotts commanding this year is a bit of a stretch IMO.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 06:29 PM
Ive seen too many 9th inning 2 out HR/ grand slam games to ever convince me that its over until its over.
I wonder how many Texas fans left the game or turned off their televisions today..

Thank you....now that is a good attitude....there is always a spot on the roster for this.

kitekrazy
08-20-2006, 06:30 PM
Something I've noticed with Alomar behind the plate, is that he doesn't believe in having the pitchers throw inside. When Javy was starting to get into trouble in the 3rd, Alomar called fo 4 pitches in a row on the outside corner. After 3 hits in a row you'd think someone (Coop, Javy, Alomar, Guillen) might have the idea of throwing inside.

1951Campbell
08-20-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by southside rocks
Yes, but if a team "ships out" a pitcher every time the pitcher hits a rough patch, that means the Sox would have dumped Garland this year; Buehrle for sure; Contreras when his back was bothering him and he had that string of not-great games -- see where that goes?

Pitchers blow hot and cold. You have to hope that their hot spells are longer and stronger than their cold spells. It's called baseball.

Cotts has been commanding this year and he will be again.


I'm not advocating shipping Cotts out. I think that if he's a bit wobbly and needs to get his groove back, he should work on that in an actual blowout, preferably when the Sox aren't playing someone with which they're fighting for a playoff spot.

slobes
08-20-2006, 06:32 PM
Well I wasn't really expecting to win today. Everything would have had to go our way, and unfortunately, it didn't. We just gotta come out strong against Detroit tomorrow.

russ99
08-20-2006, 06:32 PM
Garland had a rough couple of months when the team was able to carry him.
Garland was able to show more than Cotts has, how can you keep in a reliever that keeps giving up runs....they have a shorter lease than a starter.

Calling Cotts commanding this year is a bit of a stretch IMO.

I just took a peek at his splits - his monthly ERA was under 3.75 every month except August. His hasn't had a horrible season, just a horrible August. Something tells me his huge number of appearances last year is catching up with him.

The problem comparing him with Garland, is that he has one inning only to sink or swim, while Garland had rough innings, but then had some decent ones.

I'm not especially convinced that Neal should be sent down or released (yet), but I don't think the Sox can afford to try and let him work out of it in the middle of a pennant race. Calling up some relievers on Sept 1st will help a lot.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 06:36 PM
I just took a peek at his splits - his monthly ERA was under 3.75 every month except August. His hasn't had a horrible season, just a horrible August. Something tells me his huge number of appearances last year is catching up with him.

The problem comparing him with Garland, is that he has one inning only to sink or swim, while Garland had rough innings, but then had some decent ones.

I'm not especially convinced that Neal should be sent down or released (yet), but I don't think the Sox can afford to try and let him work out of it in the middle of a pennant race. Calling up some relievers on Sept 1st will help a lot.

Agreed, but isn't his ERA a bit deceptive this year?

...he has given up a number of runs charged to others, I believe.

sox230
08-20-2006, 06:39 PM
It's always been amazing to me how either rookies, guys they bring up, or just players people have never heard of before the season always start rallies for the twins....didn't it make u nervous how those bottom jasons for them and the top 2 guys could ALWAYS steal and how they can usually play hit and run with them....they put a lot more pressure on the defense then we do because of their speed....we are much more of a station to station team, because our bottom guys don't have speed. I say that if our bottom hitters are going to suck anyways, bring u guys with speed to alteast put prssure on oif they do get on. Not to mention those stupid Twins bottom guys still bat over .300.

Frater Perdurabo
08-20-2006, 06:42 PM
If anyone thinks Cotts is getting pounded in this thread, he's getting pounded even worse by opposing hitters:

In his last three relief appearances, Cotts has given up six runs, five earned, in 2 1-3 innings.
Cotts didn't lose the game, but giving up two more runs made the deficit twice what it was previously and probably contributed to a sense of defeat among the hitters. The Sox have shown an ability to come back against the top closers including HOF-ers like Mariano Rivera. Cotts made it far more difficult than it had to be.

I hate cliches - especially this one - but this probably was one of those "60 games" the Sox "were supposed to lose." The Sox had their #5 starter going against the other team's ace who also happens to have won the Cy Young Award. Still, just because the deck was stacked against the Sox in this game does not exonerate Cotts' repeated and inexcusably poor performances.

Neal Cotts is 2006's pitching equivalent of Royce Clayton. He's also the equivalent of 2005's Marte - the guy Ozzie calls upon when he wants his pitcher to surrender a HBP, a walk, a wild pitch or a homer. He also plays the role that Mike Jackson played in 2004 - routinely allowing inherited runners to score.

Earlier this year, the even more terrible performances that Politte, Nelson (understandable since he was old and hurt) and Logan (understandable since he was very green) routinely crapped all over the mound overshadowed Cotts' ineptitude. Now there's no one left to protect him.

Cotts is by far the very worst pitcher on the staff. Montero or Logan would be a better options at this point. Let Cotts work out his issues at Charlotte.
:mad:

Lip Man 1
08-20-2006, 07:02 PM
Just a few thoughts:

Last month Paul Konerko made a comment that I'm afraid is going to prove to be prophetic. Paulie said the race 'is going to go down to the final week.'

We better hope it doesn't go down to the final weekend.

The Sox close with three in Minnesota and you can bet your ass that even if the Twins are out of it, Gardenhire is going to have Santana, Radke and if healthy Liriano all set to go. It's not going to be 'Boof' and a bunch of goofs.

The Twins have two baseball goals...one is to make the playoffs and the second is when they can't, to make sure the White Sox don't.

I thought things were changing. Last year the Sox beat the Twins at their own game. But once again this season Minnesota just outplays, out pitches and out hustles the higher payroll club. Seven of the last ten have gone Minnesota's way in head to head meetings.

And speaking of 'head' Commander's right. Santana is in their heads...he's a great pitcher, don't get me wrong, but it's funny that Santana doesn't seem to have the same dominating success against teams like the Yankees, Indians and this season the Tigers, that he does against the Sox.

His name is announced and the Sox roll over and die.

Regarding Cotts. He's reverted back to his prior form...not throwing strikes and when he does they are 'get me over' strikes which are getting pounded.

I don't know who is the 'real' Cotts, last year's version or the one from before. Me thinks given what happened to Politte that Cotts is going to go that way as well...that 2005 was an unmitigated fluke season.

Time will tell.

Maybe the Sox can actually do something off Johan when they face him again this Friday (big surprise...another Sox / Twins series, another start for Santana...)

Lip

mccoydp
08-20-2006, 07:13 PM
screw u guys in only 14 and a huge sox fan cant believe a sox fan can be a *******

:?:

What is this gibberish? Geez.

I wasn't expecting a win today...Santana is a Sox killer.

Go get the Kitties tomorrow and take at least 3 of 4.

CommanderPudge72
08-20-2006, 07:17 PM
And speaking of 'head' Commander's right. Santana is in their heads...he's a great pitcher, don't get me wrong, but it's funny that Santana doesn't seem to have the same dominating success against teams like the Yankees, Indians and this season the Tigers, that he does against the Sox.

His name is announced and the Sox roll over and die.

Regarding Cotts. He's reverted back to his prior form...not throwing strikes and when he does they are 'get me over' strikes which are getting pounded.

I don't know who is the 'real' Cotts, last year's version or the one from before. Me thinks given what happened to Politte that Cotts is going to go that way as well...that 2005 was an unmitigated fluke season.

Time will tell.

Lip

Thanks Lip.

What worries me is that we (the fans, media, announcers and maybe players?) seem to be giving themselves permission to lose these games....

We were up against Santana....What could we do? Expect to lose....

That kind of attitude really bothers me. I mean REALLY bothers me.

viagracat
08-20-2006, 07:20 PM
About the only good news is that Detroit's back on their heels right now. This series will be very telling.

Soxfanspcu11
08-20-2006, 07:32 PM
You've got to be ****ing kidding me. You were in the gamethread crapping on the White Sox at any chance. Hell, I seem to be one of the few who have confidence in Neal Cotts. He hasn't been pretty out there, but he's a hell of a lot better than Boone Logan, or anybody else the Sox could bring up.

I have plenty of confidence in this team, more than you, I'd wager. But I'm not going to be a Pollyanna and call for the head of Neal Cotts because he gave up a 2-run homer to Torii Hunter. Come on.

Neal Cotts just flat out blows this year. It's not just the 2 run homer today, it's every ****ing time he comes in, something bad happens. If Ozzie puts him in, he is pretty much giving up. Even when it's not Neal's fault directly, something bad happens when he is on the bump. Look at that bloop single he gave up on Friday, totally not his fault, but it still scored runs. Who knows, maybe he is cursed this year or something.

And I would totally put more stock in Boone Logan at this point. There is no way that Logan could be worse than Cotts, NO WAY! Thank god for September call-ups. I have heard Logan is pitching great in the minors right now, hopefully he can come up here and do the same thing, and send Cotts down or whatever until he gets right.

What nobody has mentioned though, unless I missed it, is that despite losing 2/3 to the Twins, we gained a game on Detroit over the weekend, that's a GOOD thing.

Grzegorz
08-20-2006, 07:35 PM
Looks like we need a Friends of Neal Cotts group. Count me in. I'm not giving up on him yet.
This makes two; Cotts is not done by a long shot. The Achilles Heel of this team is the starting pitching; it cost us in games one and three of this series.

Throughout the year starting pitching staff has underachieved. At present the staff stumbles on; and that goes for everyone in the rotation sans Garland.

He's the stopper of this staff. Other than him we have:
* A pitcher working to regain his confidence
* Two that seem to place blame in others before they look inward
* And one with a great arm but with a proclivity to blow up in an inning.

The only way to look at this series is that the White Sox get out with a wild card lead and move into Detroit to face the slumping Tigers.

Something tells me that the arrival of the White Sox will fire up the Tigers; IMO this is going to be a tight series.

The question is which team is mentally tougher?

CaptainBallz
08-20-2006, 07:42 PM
Glad I missed this one. No time for all the shoulda, woulda, coulda's with these last two series. We now face Detroit how we left them, 5.5 back and in a good position to gain on them with the pitching matchups.

Look forward, stay positive, hope for the A-lineup, and a Cotts-less week.

thomas35forever
08-20-2006, 08:14 PM
I knew it was over once the Twinkies scored all those runs in the third. Who said Santana was gonna be crappy today?

samram
08-20-2006, 08:22 PM
Looks like we need a Friends of Neal Cotts group. Count me in. I'm not giving up on him yet.

I'm not giving up on him either, but does being a FONC mean one must overlook any adverse impact he has on a game?

Jurr
08-20-2006, 09:37 PM
Period point blank. This team cannot beat the Twins when Santana pitches. It's an absolute tragedy as well as an oddity, but it's the truth.

Our pitchers come out tight, because they know they're going to have to be lights out. Our hitters get into a ridiculous guessing game, which leads to crap AB's. The pitchers miss a ton, and runs go on the board.

I've been watching this travesty occur every damn game since that 17 run demolition job the '04 Sox put on Santana. Since that early season walloping, it's been two plus years of failure.

Thank God we don't see him 100 times in a season. It's just annoying that you can hang a loss on the Sox every damn time.

Mooooove on, boys. On to Detroit.

kitekrazy
08-20-2006, 09:54 PM
Period point blank. This team cannot beat the Twins when Santana pitches. It's an absolute tragedy as well as an oddity, but it's the truth.


After looking at his wons and losses I'd say the Sox are not the only team that loses to Santana.

They only way to deal with Santana is to have him dealt to the Sox.

Jurr
08-20-2006, 10:15 PM
After looking at his wons and losses I'd say the Sox are not the only team that loses to Santana.

They only way to deal with Santana is to have him dealt to the Sox.
Actually, I had forgotten about our win vs. Santana THIS YEAR. Wow.

However, I get to watch quite a few of Santana's starts with that MLB package, and the funny thing I find is that not too many other teams really fold up shop against him like we do. I've seen some very good games that he's involved in.

I can't name that many games where we've even made a true game of it. I guess you could say that today was such an occasion. Neil Cotts made that short lived.

It's just amazing when a guy absolutely OWNS your team. I know we have guys that own other teams, but it's such a crappy, helpless feeling. EVERY TIME we play Santana, I expect a big demoralizing loss where everyone looks helpless. It happens more times than I'd like to remember.

BadBobbyJenks
08-20-2006, 10:40 PM
How about Vazquez sucking, and another lifeless effort against Santana. It's amazing to me that the Sox see Santana and Nathan 4 times a year and can't do **** against them. It's truley getting annoying.


You act like Santana is not a good pitcher....Hes the ****ing best pitcher on this planet and now is 19-1 in august....get over it, I already had a loss chalked up when i saw the matchups.


Santana in the 2nd half and at home, game over.

Go get detroit end of story

BadBobbyJenks
08-20-2006, 10:43 PM
Period point blank. This team cannot beat the Twins when Santana pitches. It's an absolute tragedy as well as an oddity, but it's the truth.




whats odd about it. Hes about to win another cy young. Give credit where credit is due, hes just that good. Id be thrilled with a win but a loss doesnt get me down one bit.

CYGarland20
08-20-2006, 11:19 PM
I already had a loss chalked up when i saw the matchups] And it looked like so did the White Sox........That's the problem, they give this guy TOO much credit, and so are you and other Sox Fans. It's not like this guy has a 1 era or something, he has a 3 era, so somebody's hitting him. Aren't We SUPPOSE to be the Best Offense in baseball (though it looks like the Yanks are passing us now) and we can only muster 1 friggin run off him? That's BS. Today was a winnable game, and the Sox brought their B game. A W today would have gave us some nice breathing room, and sent a message to Minnesota. Unfortunately we couldn't do that, and for that I'm disappointed. I as a fan, concede no games to anyone, and so should the White Sox, even against the ALMIGHTY Santana.....

Brian26
08-20-2006, 11:48 PM
Cotts didn't lose the game, but giving up two more runs made the deficit twice what it was previously and probably contributed to a sense of defeat among the hitters. The Sox have shown an ability to come back against the top closers including HOF-ers like Mariano Rivera. Cotts made it far more difficult than it had to be.

Cotts probably doesn't even come into the game in that situation if the score is tied or the Sox are only down by a run.

I don't think SABRSox is implying that Cotts is performing great right now. The problem I have with this thread is that some people are shifting 100% of the blame on Cotts for this loss, which is ridiculous. PK made a tough error in the first. BA threw to the wrong base. Javy was getting pounded all game. Ozzie's lineup was questionable with Alomar in there instead of Pierzynski. Ozuna made a bad judgement play and threw to the wrong base. There's plenty of blame to go around.

Chisox003
08-20-2006, 11:55 PM
Cotts probably doesn't even come into the game in that situation if the score is tied or the Sox are only down by a run.

I don't think SABRSox is implying that Cotts is performing great right now. The problem I have with this thread is that some people are shifting 100% of the blame on Cotts for this loss, which is ridiculous. PK made a tough error in the first. BA threw to the wrong base. Javy was getting pounded all game. Ozzie's lineup was questionable with Alomar in there instead of Pierzynski. Ozuna made a bad judgement play and threw to the wrong base. There's plenty of blame to go around. I definitely agree, but the *official* theme of 2006 is pick a scapegoat, (ie Widger, Politte, now Cotts), and blame him for everything that goes wrong.

Konerko's error? Cotts' fault. Vazquez 4 ER? Cotts' fault. Santana being unhittable? Cotts' fault. It won't stop until he's gone, or pitching much better. Hopefully the latter.

0o0o0
08-21-2006, 01:08 AM
The game seemed to go exactly as it was supposed to. Not much to say about it. Big stuff goin on this week.

dcb56
08-21-2006, 01:35 AM
Cotts probably doesn't even come into the game in that situation if the score is tied or the Sox are only down by a run.

I don't think SABRSox is implying that Cotts is performing great right now. The problem I have with this thread is that some people are shifting 100% of the blame on Cotts for this loss, which is ridiculous. PK made a tough error in the first. BA threw to the wrong base. Javy was getting pounded all game. Ozzie's lineup was questionable with Alomar in there instead of Pierzynski. Ozuna made a bad judgement play and threw to the wrong base. There's plenty of blame to go around.

Thank you. It's silly to try to blame anyone exclusively for this loss because it was an overall piss poor team peformance. They weren't able to advance/drive in the runners who were able to get on base vs. Santana, the outfielders were giving free bases away all afternoon, Javy wasn't able to pitch around the defense's mistakes, and Neil Cotts crapped his pants yet again. It'd be difficult for the Sox to beat any team with the way they played, let alone the Twins in the Dome with Santana starting.

I'm not too upset, however, because the fact reamains that no one can beat Santana at home and while the Sox have lost ground to the Twinkies in the Wild Card race, Detroit's lead continues to erode and Boston has been all but buried. It's time for the Sox to take 3 of the next 4 and return home with a winning record on this trip.

100 Year Itch
08-21-2006, 01:57 AM
Here is what the team lacks, and something we, as fans, desire... MAGIC.

The "magic" isn't there this year. The balls are not bouncing our way, the positional changes are causing just as much harm than good.. we lack the MAGIC.

I define "magic" as luck. We just aren't lucky this year. I blame it on the tightened structure of the baseballs. Fundamental play doesn't fill seats, nor does expert pitching appearances. Selig wins.

BadBobbyJenks
08-21-2006, 02:12 AM
And it looked like so did the White Sox........That's the problem, they give this guy TOO much credit, and so are you and other Sox Fans. It's not like this guy has a 1 era or something, he has a 3 era, so somebody's hitting him. Aren't We SUPPOSE to be the Best Offense in baseball (though it looks like the Yanks are passing us now) and we can only muster 1 friggin run off him? That's BS. Today was a winnable game, and the Sox brought their B game. A W today would have gave us some nice breathing room, and sent a message to Minnesota. Unfortunately we couldn't do that, and for that I'm disappointed. I as a fan, concede no games to anyone, and so should the White Sox, even against the ALMIGHTY Santana.....


and its ok for us fans to have that feeling, but I doubt the white sox players went into the game thinking they had no chance today...

soltrain21
08-21-2006, 03:17 AM
Here is what the team lacks, and something we, as fans, desire... MAGIC.

The "magic" isn't there this year. The balls are not bouncing our way, the positional changes are causing just as much harm than good.. we lack the MAGIC.

I define "magic" as luck. We just aren't lucky this year. I blame it on the tightened structure of the baseballs. Fundamental play doesn't fill seats, nor does expert pitching appearances. Selig wins.



I don't know why, but this really made me laugh.

spiffie
08-21-2006, 10:27 AM
Here is what the team lacks, and something we, as fans, desire... MAGIC.

The "magic" isn't there this year. The balls are not bouncing our way, the positional changes are causing just as much harm than good.. we lack the MAGIC.

I define "magic" as luck. We just aren't lucky this year. I blame it on the tightened structure of the baseballs. Fundamental play doesn't fill seats, nor does expert pitching appearances. Selig wins.
You're right. We'd be doing better if our team could somehow lead the AL in HR by a 14-HR margin.