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View Full Version : Big Jon for Cy Young?


voodoochile
08-20-2006, 07:34 AM
It honestly feels a bit odd to be typing this after his struggles in the past and even earlier in the season, but at 14-4 with 8 starts left and a chance to get his ERA down closer to 4.0 is Jon Garland a Cy Young candidate?

If he wins 6 more, he almost has to be 20-4 (or even 20-6) is a very impressive record. Even with the higher ERA, his last 4 months of the season are shaping up as one of the great runs in recent memory. I remember when Sutcliffe won the award in 1984 after going 18-1 with the flubbies in half a season. Garland has been doing something similar since mid-May, having gone 11-2 with an ERA of 4.49.

It's also about the way he carries the team in big games. Couple of times he has absolutely stuffed the competition in big games. If the Sox make the playoffs, he will be a major reason why.

PeteWard
08-20-2006, 07:39 AM
His ERA will have to plummet big time. It's still up there. If they gave it for the second half, yes. But they don't.

Anyway, Like Contreras last year he is turning it on when needed and personal awards be damned. I can see Jon anchoring a revived staff in the Series.

BeviBall!
08-20-2006, 08:01 AM
If there weren't people named Halladay, Santana, Schilling, Verlander, Liriano, Wang and hell, even Weaver at this point... I'd say he'd have an outside chance. That said, he's still becoming the MVP of the Sox.

soxinem1
08-20-2006, 08:06 AM
He has 14 wins, but is he the best? Too many hits, high ERA. He'd have to start really dealing just to have a chance, even if he wins 20.

He's been winning some big games when we've needed them, but there are at least five others that deserve more consideration.

buehrle4cy05
08-20-2006, 10:40 AM
He has been arguably the best pitcher in baseball since the beginning of July, but Santana, Halladay, etc. have done it for the whole season.

He should get some consideration if he finishes the year 20-4 and lowers his ERA below 4, though.

Frankly Missing
08-20-2006, 11:03 AM
If Jon finishes 20-4 and the Sox come back to win the division, I think he would get mega consideration.

Jjav829
08-20-2006, 11:12 AM
Garland isn't going to win the Cy Young, but he deserves a lot of credit for helping to carry this team while our other four pitchers have struggled. If Garland hadn't stepped it up and pitched like he did from the middle of June until now, we might be fighting just to stay in the Wild Card race rather than leading it with still a chance at the division.

viagracat
08-20-2006, 11:20 AM
If Jon finishes 20-4 and the Sox come back to win the division, I think he would get mega consideration.

I was just going to post the same thing. But all those things would have to happen, I think. This guy was getting flamed earlier in the season.

Prediction: if Garland wins those 20 games; the Sox are in the playoffs. Period.

Baby Fisk
08-20-2006, 11:37 AM
Ol' Giraffe Legs is proving to the the road warrior of the 2006 Sox. Ten of his wins have come on the road.

SOXSINCE'70
08-20-2006, 11:44 AM
Ol' Giraffe Legs is proving to the the road warrior of the 2006 Sox. Ten of his wins have come on the road.

He's doing what Freddy Garcia did last year.Win the big
games on the road.His next test: Thursday against the Kitties.

That said,he's no Cy Young unless that ERA comes waaaaayyy down.
At least to 3.50 . MVP candidate?? Maybe.Cy Young?? Not at this time.

Hitmen77
08-20-2006, 08:34 PM
Big Jon for Cy Young?

I didn't realize his Twins teammates referred to Johan Santana as "Big Jon". :tongue:

jdm2662
08-20-2006, 08:40 PM
ERA is still way too high. His turn around has been great, but you got to give to the best overall pitcher.

Johan Santana is still the best pitcher in baseball. He should get it baring a major downfall.

Jurr
08-20-2006, 08:40 PM
We were just beaten by Cy Young. Oh, wait. He's dead. It's weird that decided to be re-incarnated in Venezuela.

It's beyond me how Santana can make our boys look so feeble every time. He's got the wins, ERA, and K's. He's your Cy Young man.

Milw
08-20-2006, 09:54 PM
Pitching wins is the most overrated stat in baseball.

No offense to Jon, but I'd rather have a pitcher with a record of 12-12 with a 2.50 ERA over a pitcher who goes 20-4 with a 4.80 ERA, and it's not even close.

A pitcher's record is a nice stat, but it's mostly meaningless.

BadBobbyJenks
08-20-2006, 09:59 PM
um no

ozzie is god
08-20-2006, 10:14 PM
It either Santana or Doc.

soxfanreggie
08-21-2006, 08:47 AM
I think I'd rather take a pitcher who's 15-0 with a 4.00 era than a pitcher who is 8-7 with a 2.50 era. Yes, run support has a lot to do with it, but most pitchers throw better with a few runs to work with.

jongarlandlover
08-21-2006, 10:16 AM
As much as I love Jon, unless he gets that ERA down, no. But if he can get it below 4 and win 20 games and we reach the playoffs, he should get major consideration. He carried the team when the rest of the pitchers were going through a slump, he deserves a lot of credit for that.

PatK
08-21-2006, 11:16 AM
What's amazing is him still not being mentioned in the same breath as Mark Prior and Carlos Zambrano, yet since the beginning of the 2005 season, no one has as many wins.

spiffie
08-21-2006, 12:33 PM
Hard to believe its only a little more than 2 months ago that CLR had to post a sticky threatening bans for anyone who called Jon Garland "Judy". Doesn't seem to be much of a problem as of late around here.

itsnotrequired
08-21-2006, 12:53 PM
Hard to believe its only a little more than 2 months ago that CLR had to post a sticky threatening bans for anyone who called Jon Garland "Judy". Doesn't seem to be much of a problem as of late around here.

Ah, the old what-have-you-done-for-me-lately syndrome! Remember all the calls for Contreras' head during the first half of last season? I knew we shouldn't have traded for Loaiza!

StatHead21
08-21-2006, 12:56 PM
He won't even get a 5th place vote, nor should he.

southside rocks
08-21-2006, 12:56 PM
Sheesh, if they'd give Freddy some run support, he'd have the Cy Young award locked up!

Frater Perdurabo
08-21-2006, 07:08 PM
While I believe that the Sox will overtake the Tigers and win the division, if for some reason the Sox win the Wild Card, Garland should start Game 1 of the ALDS at Oakland or New York and Game 1 of the ALCS at Detroit.
:D:

I am so glad the Sox inked Garland to a relatively inexpensive contract last offseason. Perhaps he will win the Cy Young award in 2007.

Britt Burns
08-21-2006, 07:31 PM
I love Garland, but no way in hell.

A. Cavatica
08-21-2006, 08:03 PM
What's amazing is him still not being mentioned in the same breath as Mark Prior and Carlos Zambrano, yet since the beginning of the 2005 season, no one has as many wins.

Outside of Chicago, neither Prior nor Zambrano gets mentioned...and neither does Garland. So I guess you could call that equivalent treatment.

miker
08-22-2006, 01:23 PM
Pitching wins is the most overrated stat in baseball.

No offense to Jon, but I'd rather have a pitcher with a record of 12-12 with a 2.50 ERA over a pitcher who goes 20-4 with a 4.80 ERA, and it's not even close.

A pitcher's record is a nice stat, but it's mostly meaningless.
If your ace is 12-12, you probably are booking tee times in the Caribbean come October...

ode to veeck
08-24-2006, 03:40 PM
:jon

"I thought I'd chime in on this discussion by shutting out the damn Kittens at their place. Actions speak louder than words."

BadBobbyJenks
08-24-2006, 03:44 PM
:jon

"I thought I'd chime in on this discussion by shutting out the damn Kittens at their place. Actions speak louder than words."


Well played Jon, but lets knock off another .5 runs off the ol' era before we get serious about the cy young

DaleJRFan
08-24-2006, 03:46 PM
um no

Brilliant and insightful post.

Anyway, he'll get some votes but it'd be hard to argue for Garland when he has to compete against Verlander, Santana, Halladay, etc.

He's been hands-down the best starting pitcher in the AL since the all-star break, but unfortunately for big Jon, the Cy Young award is based on a full season's performance.

itsnotrequired
08-24-2006, 03:48 PM
Well played Jon, but lets knock off another .5 runs off the ol' era before we get serious about the cy young

He knocked .26 off today.

EastCoastSoxFan
08-24-2006, 03:48 PM
Well played Jon, but lets knock off another .5 runs off the ol' era before we get serious about the cy youngA shutout is a nice step in that direction...

BadBobbyJenks
08-24-2006, 04:03 PM
He knocked .26 off today.


and another .5 would get him under 4 and in the discussion....

simbro
08-24-2006, 04:05 PM
i think if he continues the way he has lately, he might get some votes, but i do not see him winning the cy young.

BadBobbyJenks
08-24-2006, 04:06 PM
Brilliant and insightful post.

at the time of my post his era was over 4.75, there was no need to analyze because he was really not in the discussion, and still is not unless his era continues to drop into the land of respectability

itsnotrequired
08-24-2006, 04:07 PM
and another .5 would get him under 4 and in the discussion....

Only two more complete game shutouts to go!

:tongue:

balke
08-24-2006, 04:08 PM
Wins are what give you the Cy young award for the most part. If he finishes strong, with the most wins in the league, and thus the most wins in the past 2 seasons in the league... I don't see how he doesn't get it. Lots of games left folks. let's hope we can get Jose back in the discussion.

hold2dibber
08-24-2006, 04:14 PM
and another .5 would get him under 4 and in the discussion....

I think he's probably "in the discussion" now in that if the season ended today, I assume he'd get some votes (not first place votes, mind you). In any event, he's been great and the Sox would be screwed without him.

kobo
08-24-2006, 04:17 PM
Brilliant and insightful post.

at the time of my post his era was over 4.75, there was no need to analyze because he was really not in the discussion, and still is not unless his era continues to drop into the land of respectability
The beginning of the year is what killed his ERA. After the first 2 games of the season his ERA was 13.98. Over his last 14 games his ERA has been under 3. If he hadn't started off so poorly he would be in serious contention for the award.

TheKittle
08-24-2006, 04:24 PM
A different time but Black Jack won the Cy Young and his era was pretty high and he gave up a lot of hits.

While Jon more than likely won't win the Cy Young, he's been a rock since June.

Good thing some people had and kept faith in him and didn't post stupid polls like how many HR's he would give up or resort to calling him Judy.

zmz723
08-24-2006, 04:32 PM
Lots of games left folks. let's hope we can get Jose back in the discussion.

might be a little too late for that

PalehosePlanet
08-24-2006, 04:32 PM
Cy Young consideration or not, Jon is 11-1 w/ a 2.50 ERA in his last 13 starts. That's OUTSTANDING.

BadBobbyJenks
08-24-2006, 05:29 PM
The beginning of the year is what killed his ERA. After the first 2 games of the season his ERA was 13.98. Over his last 14 games his ERA has been under 3. If he hadn't started off so poorly he would be in serious contention for the award.


Oh ok I didnt realize they changed the cy young to last 14 games of your season:rolleyes: He did start poorly and thats the problem....

And I have always been a Jon supporter but the cy young talk is getting ahead of ourselves and the numbers just dont compare to Doc and Johan at the moment

PeteWard
08-24-2006, 11:54 PM
Wins are what give you the Cy young award for the most part. If he finishes strong, with the most wins in the league, and thus the most wins in the past 2 seasons in the league... I don't see how he doesn't get it. Lots of games left folks. let's hope we can get Jose back in the discussion.

You don't see how he doesn't get? Halliday and Santana are having MUCH better years. They dont give out this award for two years aggregate.

Babe The Blue Ox
08-25-2006, 12:20 AM
In 2004, the year that he won the Cy Young, Johan was something like 2-3 with an ERA in the 5.60 range through April and May. However, from early June 2004 on, he completely dominated and turned in probably one of the best 2nd halves in modern baseball history.

So it is possible that a pitcher can start off slow and still win the Cy Young. I think it comes down to who else is out there competing with you for the award. Schilling had one more win in 2004 than Johan, but Johan still got it. I think few would argue that Colon was not as deserving as some candidates last year, even though he had the most wins in the AL.

Jon Garland is an interesting (from a Twins fan perspective read: frustrating) pitcher to watch. He doesn't overpower, but he is certainly effective.

gbergman
08-25-2006, 12:23 AM
Jon G For Cy Young

BadBobbyJenks
08-25-2006, 12:28 AM
You don't see how he doesn't get? Halliday and Santana are having MUCH better years. They dont give out this award for two years aggregate.


thank you and here are the stats from mlb.com to back it up, besides wins its really not even close:
And this takes nothing away from the run hes on, but lets be realistic
Player TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO



1. J Santana (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=276371)MIN 15 5 3.03 27 27 1 0 184.1 151 65 62 19 4 38 192


2. R Halladay (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=136880)TOR16 3 3.18 26 26 3 0 184.0 178 69 65 15 5 25 104


3. J Garland (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=279782)CWS 15 4 4.47 26 25 1 0 165.0 189 83 82 23 3 33 85


edit: hopefully that works

Domeshot17
08-25-2006, 12:53 AM
The cy is a 2 man race, and Jon at best is looking to show. MAYBE if say Santana finished with 13 or 14 wins, same with Halladay, but you are talking about the same record with a run lower ERA. Garland may get a vote or 2, but I can't say I think he deserves them. No knock to Jon, Its like saying Paulie should get MVP votes.

HOWEVER, (not sure if this should be pinked or not) maybe this will be the wake up call to Jon that if he can find a way to put it together for an entire season, he could be a real front line starter.

What Jon has done, however, is stop the people like me early in the season when he is giving up 8 runs a game from saying Kenny paid him a mil per run on his era. I admit I was wrong about Jon earlier, I ate my crow, and If the playoffs started today, I would want him throwing Game 1 in New York.

0o0o0
08-25-2006, 12:54 AM
Jon G For Cy Young

Very well put. :cool:

kobo
08-25-2006, 08:12 AM
Oh ok I didnt realize they changed the cy young to last 14 games of your season:rolleyes: He did start poorly and thats the problem....

And I have always been a Jon supporter but the cy young talk is getting ahead of ourselves and the numbers just dont compare to Doc and Johan at the moment
I never said anything that the beginning of his season should be ignored, just that he had a rough start to the season and that is what has hurt his chances of being in serious consideration for it. Since May 12 Garland is 13-2 with a 3.64 ERA. If he would have pitched well in the beginning then I think he would be in contention right now. I don't think he's going to win it though, even if he keeps pitching well. He'll probably end up finishing 5th in the voting.

D. TODD
08-25-2006, 08:50 AM
I'm ecstatic with how Garland is pitching, but he is not a candidate for the Cy Young. The conversation ends with Santana & Halliday this year.