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Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 02:21 PM
Frankly I'm not sure what to make of this because I don't know the tone of Freddy's voice when he said it, but it is distrubing to me since this is the second time he's said something like it.

To Nat Whalen of the Daily Southtown:

"I tried to stay in the game, keep it close, if we don't really hit too much, where are we going to be?"

:?:

Lip

soltrain21
08-19-2006, 02:22 PM
I think trips to the Playboy Mansion and all the like really went to a couple of these guy's heads.

Chisox003
08-19-2006, 02:24 PM
This thread has the chance to be epic.

I'm seeing flashes of Konerko's Clayton comments last spring.

That said, Freddy needs to worry about his 5 ERA and holding runners on instead of what the offense is doing.

soxruleEP
08-19-2006, 02:25 PM
Frankly I'm not sure what to make of this because I don't know the tone of Freddy's voice when he said it, but it is distrubing to me since this is the second time he's said something like it.

To Nat Whalen of the Daily Southtown:

"I tried to stay in the game, keep it close, if we don't really hit too much, where are we going to be?"

Given that we scored 2 runs in 18 innings against two pitchers with a combined ERA over 18, I share his concerns.

I don't see any problem with the answer--especially since we don't know what the question was. Sports reporters don't render their game reports in Q&A fashion so every quote is presented as if it were the unelicited musings of the player.

batmanZoSo
08-19-2006, 02:29 PM
Frankly I'm not sure what to make of this because I don't know the tone of Freddy's voice when he said it, but it is distrubing to me since this is the second time he's said something like it.

To Nat Whalen of the Daily Southtown:

"I tried to stay in the game, keep it close, if we don't really hit too much, where are we going to be?"

:?:

Lip

That's weak. I don't know what's wrong with some of these guys. Why don't Yankees get all complacent and big headed when they win a World Series? I think it's time for a few players to be made examples of.

MadetoOrta
08-19-2006, 02:33 PM
Totally agree with Zozo. I hope KW can con some fool into taking this guy off our hands. I think there's more of a clubhouse problem than we know.

Paulwny
08-19-2006, 02:34 PM
That's weak. I don't know what's wrong with some of these guys. Why don't Yankees get all complacent and big headed when they win a World Series? I think it's time for a few players to be made examples of.

Joe Torre, not the greatest manager, but the greatest handler of million dollar egos.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-19-2006, 02:39 PM
Just more Freddy whining. Never his fault. Five earned runs is hardly a stellar outing. And Paulie could steal on him. Then there's the showing up the defense with his body language. Hope he's gone next year, rather take our chances with Javy.

0o0o0
08-19-2006, 02:42 PM
Yikes. First the "I'm going to be traded" **** and now this.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4771&stc=1&d=1156012792

southside rocks
08-19-2006, 03:01 PM
I think there's more of a clubhouse problem than we know.
Whalen, the Southtown writer, hints as much:
http://blogs.dailysouthtown.com/whalen/

kobo
08-19-2006, 03:24 PM
Frankly I'm not sure what to make of this because I don't know the tone of Freddy's voice when he said it, but it is distrubing to me since this is the second time he's said something like it.

To Nat Whalen of the Daily Southtown:

"I tried to stay in the game, keep it close, if we don't really hit too much, where are we going to be?"

:?:

Lip
Ah yes, it's not Freddy's fault, it's the offense that is not doing its job. I really hope he is not here next year, his attitude is sickening this season.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 03:39 PM
We're seeing a few cracks in the foundation that need to be patched....the continued comments of Garcia (how about, just once after being given a lead you don't turn right around and give up a couple of runs, is that TOO much to ask a "big game" pitcher?), the AJ/Alomar story and all the intrigue and mystery surrounding Uribe over the last two weeks.

Of course, some are going to automatically jump to the conclusion that Ozzie is showing favoritism because of the "family" connection.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 03:42 PM
I can't believe people are defending Garcia STILL.

Imagine if Konerko said, well, Freddy gave up 7 runs early so we just kind of packed it up and decided to save our energy for the next game...or Freddy's pitching so slow out there, it makes our defense go to sleep...or Freddy's fastball isn't even as fast as Zumaya's or Jenks' breaking stuff.

RowanDye
08-19-2006, 03:46 PM
What's he smoking? :bong: (semi-teal?)

soxwon
08-19-2006, 03:47 PM
It seems to me this team Simply doesnt have enough right now!
they dont seem to have that drive.
Lets hope they find it soon.

DSpivack
08-19-2006, 03:55 PM
Methinks Freddy Garcia is pitching on a different team in 2007.

chisoxfanatic
08-19-2006, 03:55 PM
Garcia looks flat-out emotionless out there every time he pitches. It seems he's disinterested or something, and it has gotten on my nerves. For him to blame the hitting displays that he refuses to admit the REAL problem this teams has. If it weren't for this offense, we'd probably have lost many more games.

TheOldRoman
08-19-2006, 03:56 PM
Fredy sucked last night. The Twins don't have a good lineup other than Mauer and Morneau. If you can't get through 7 without giving up less than 5 against ANY team, let alone that team, then you say "I just sucked, and I am ashamed of my performance tonight".

As for his comments, he was 100% right. The offense has been horrible lately. Bonser is garbage. If this lineup was a PATIENT, solid lineup instead of one who overswings, is extremely streaky, impatient, and embarrasses themselves against horrible pitchers, Boof's ass would have been on the bench in the 4th. The game on Tues was easily the worst offensive performance I have ever seen. They were facing a horrible pitcher, who wasn't on, and couldn't find the strikezone. Solution? Swing early in the count, chase balls 2 feet outside, chase balls in the dirt, and take strike 3 over the plate. Honestly, Hernandez was so bad that most teams would have knocked him out in the 3rd. Instead, he goes 7+ and "dominates". But it's ok, they step it up against good teams.

For as much of a dissapointment as the pitching has been, the offense hasn't been so hot either. We have lost a lot of games because of pitching, but we also lost a lot because our hitters went to sleep against garbage pitching. Vazquez was bad and Contreras was horrible against the Royals, but the offense should have pounded the living hell out of those two pitchers.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 03:57 PM
I can just imagine if Garcia was going to arbitration...his agent would be saying what a great season he had because he won 15 games.

Well, Danny Wright once won a similar number with a horrible ERA, and we know how that ended.

monkeypants
08-19-2006, 03:57 PM
:jaime

"Did I hear somebody critisizing their own team's offense? Eess so frustrating."

chisoxfanatic
08-19-2006, 03:58 PM
:jaime

"Did I hear somebody critisizing their own team's offense? Eess so frustrating."

If I didn't feel so sick right now, I'd be laughing hysterically at your post.

Grzegorz
08-19-2006, 04:00 PM
Lip,

I am not sure of Garcia's inflection either but I would question why make a statement like that to the media when you know your statement is likely to be printed out of context.

Hey Freddie, look within; the answer lies there.

Frater Perdurabo
08-19-2006, 04:15 PM
Sports reporters don't render their game reports in Q&A fashion so every quote is presented as if it were the unelicited musings of the player.

soxruleEP, you are exactly right, and this is why I distrust all segments of the media - they get the "last cut." Power corrupts, and journalists have the power to "edit" as they please.

I also agree with some of the other posters that the offense should, nay, MUST score many more runs against garbage pitchers.

Still, if this is any indication of Freddy's attitude, I don't want him on the Sox. Furthermore, and perhaps more worrisome, if this is any indication of his attitude, and if Ozzie chooses to stick with him because he's family, Ozzie will lose the team.

If this is any indication of Garcia's attitude, Ozzie should take him behind the Metrodome woodshed and give him an old-fashioned attitude adjustment - with a cue ball in a tube sock.

KMKsuburbannoise
08-19-2006, 04:20 PM
this is the second time he has gone after the hitters. The first time, a lot of the people on the board said we were reading too much into it. What about this time? This is the SECOND time he has gone after our hitters. That is not the way the White Sox work.

Ziggy S
08-19-2006, 04:23 PM
Hey, come on guys don't be so hard on him. After all, he was up for this start, since it was against a good team.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 04:31 PM
We've lost to the following starters with plus 5.00 ERA's this season

Hudson
Hernandez, Runelvys
Bernero
Affeldt (5.91)
D. Bautista (5.66)
Scott Elarton (5.34)
Casey Janssen (5.07)
Kameron Loe (5.86)
Rheinecker (6.03)
Wasdin
Carlos Silva
Koronka (5.31)
Bruce Chen (6.70)

TheOldRoman
08-19-2006, 04:42 PM
Still, if this is any indication of Freddy's attitude, I don't want him on the Sox. Furthermore, and perhaps more worrisome, if this is any indication of his attitude, and if Ozzie chooses to stick with him because he's family, Ozzie will lose the team.
It bothers me that people think Freddy gets special treatment, or gets away with stuff because he is family. Garcia is in the rotation because he has dominated in the past, and can still dominate from time to time. Other than a couple bad (not horrible) innings, his two previous starts had been very good. Brandon McCarthy has been everything short of spectacular in the bullpen, and I have no reason to believe that he would be able to step into the rotation in August and pitch better than Freddy is now. Also, that move weakens the bullpen, as Freddy has never been and should never be, a reliever. He wouldn't take well to the move, and he wouldn't do good.

Garcia will be traded in the offseason, and the Sox don't want to do anything to bring his value down anymore. Whether or not Ozzie calls out Freddy in the papers, he will bitch him out in person. If the Sox pull him from the rotation, or Ozzie calls him out in public, questioning his work ethic and desire, those are red flags to other teams. All Ozzie can do is scream at Freddy in private, and act like all is good for the press. His ass is gone after this season, moving him to the bullpen weakens the team. As long as Ozzie can get him to ****, there is no problem.

Frater Perdurabo
08-19-2006, 04:45 PM
As long as Ozzie can get him to ****, there is no problem.

Agreed. That's why I used red font to emphasize my uses of the word "if."

fquaye149
08-19-2006, 04:46 PM
We've lost to the following starters with plus 5.00 ERA's this season

Hudson
Hernandez, Runelvys
Bernero
Affeldt (5.91)
D. Bautista (5.66)
Scott Elarton (5.34)
Casey Janssen (5.07)
Kameron Loe (5.86)
Rheinecker (6.03)
Wasdin
Carlos Silva
Koronka (5.31)
Bruce Chen (6.70)

welp, that proves it.

tell the boys to get their golf clubs ready for october in arizona...:rolleyes:

southside rocks
08-19-2006, 05:01 PM
this is the second time he has gone after the hitters. The first time, a lot of the people on the board said we were reading too much into it. What about this time? This is the SECOND time he has gone after our hitters. That is not the way the White Sox work.
Freddy is probably having what we in the trading business call a PFM, personal fast market.

His fastball appears to have departed and may not return.

His ERA is pushing 5.00, which is not particularly studly or impressive.

He's only 30 years old, and has many more years to fill in pro ball or -- doing what?

He's trying to reinvent himself as a pitcher, on the fly, on a team that is WS Champ and that is in the pennant race this year. That's a lot of pressure on Freddy, and he's handling it, but not as well as we'd like to see.

Either Freddy grows the bleep up here, or he will be the answer to a trivia question by the end of next season. Don't think he doesn't know that; I bet he does, better than any of us do.

SOXSINCE'70
08-19-2006, 05:07 PM
Frankly I'm not sure what to make of this because I don't know the tone of Freddy's voice when he said it, but it is distrubing to me since this is the second time he's said something like it.

To Nat Whalen of the Daily Southtown:

"I tried to stay in the game, keep it close, if we don't really hit too much, where are we going to be?"

:?:

Lip

I'm with you,Lip.What's Garcia saying here??:dunno: :o:

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 05:08 PM
Well, most of the times we've won, we've gone with a starter with close to a 5.0 ERA out there this season, with the exception of Contreras and Buehrle before the break.

Fans have always questioned the advance scouting budget and wonder why we historically have seemed to lose to journeymen, crafty lefties and unknown rookies but quite regularly rough up the best pitchers in the league not named Santana and Westbrook.

It might be that whole "big game" thing that we don't concentrate or focus against lesser pitchers like we do against the Verlanders and Schillings of the world. It has been a trend for seemingly an entire half decade or more with the Sox.

I think Radke is due to a bad start...he's been really good the last couple of months, but when his shoulder is hurting or he's off just a little in his location, he gets absolutely hammered. Then again, it's a huge game...hopefully Jon will give a better effort than he did against the Yankees.

soltrain21
08-19-2006, 05:08 PM
He might be saying that the only way to win is to hit the crap out of the ball, because we all know the pitching isn't getting it done.

Soxfanspcu11
08-19-2006, 05:12 PM
Methinks Freddy Garcia is pitching on a different team in 2007.

I hope your right. I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Freddy for what he did last year and being on the mound when we won the series, but I really think it's time to move on.

He's not the same pitcher. Remember at the beginning of the year when his velocity was way down and we all worried crazy over it?? Well, he regained that, but something just doesn't seem right about him anymore, it just doesn't have "it". The "it" that made him Freddy Garcia of 2000-2005. And I'm not talking about falling off in velocity, I'm talking about his attitude.

This blaming everyone else crap is bull****. Take responsiblity for your actions. The offense gave you the lead once and tied it up for you once. BOTH times you gave it RIGHT BACK in the next frame. There is no one to blame but you. I REALLY hope he is gone next year, I'd rather keep Javy, seriously, and I can't believe I'm saying that.:whiner:

SOXSINCE'70
08-19-2006, 05:14 PM
He might be saying that the only way to win is to hit the crap out of the ball, because we all know the pitching isn't getting it done.

So I guess Freddy G's arm is tired.
Someone should tell him EVERY pitcher
is tired at this time of year!If you're not tired,
you're not playing the game right,IMO.:angry:

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 05:52 PM
What I will always remember about that game is Dye/Harris, the Uribe play flying into the stands and that endless topper over Jenks' head that was hit by Palmeiro.

Was that the game Houston was something like 0 for 12 with runners in scoring position or game 3? It seemed like every time there was a leadoff hitter on base for Houston, it jinxed their inning.

digdagdug23
08-19-2006, 06:09 PM
Someone help jog my memory. Which game was it that Freddy had a visible melt-down during the game? Wasn't that during the Cubs series? I'll be damned if I can remember, but it seems to me that was the beginning of problems with him this season. I rembmer him having a tantrum on the mound, but for some reason totally blocked out the other team.

batmanZoSo
08-19-2006, 06:13 PM
What I will always remember about that game is Dye/Harris, the Uribe play flying into the stands and that endless topper over Jenks' head that was hit by Palmeiro.

Was that the game Houston was something like 0 for 12 with runners in scoring position or game 3? It seemed like every time there was a leadoff hitter on base for Houston, it jinxed their inning.

Game 3. Houston had a million chances to beat us that game but they didn't want to. They hit up Garland for a 4-0 lead (including a fake solo homer) and El Duque worked some more magic. Lots of choking in that game.

Corlose 15
08-19-2006, 06:27 PM
What is this whole AJ Sandy controversy?

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 06:31 PM
Someone help jog my memory. Which game was it that Freddy had a visible melt-down during the game? Wasn't that during the Cubs series? I'll be damned if I can remember, but it seems to me that was the beginning of problems with him this season. I rembmer him having a tantrum on the mound, but for some reason totally blocked out the other team.

Can't remember the opponent, but I think it had something to do with Mackowiak in CF misjudging or misplaying a ball, and then Garcia fell apart.

digdagdug23
08-19-2006, 06:33 PM
Can't remember the opponent, but I think it had something to do with Mackowiak in CF misjudging or misplaying a ball, and then Garcia fell apart.

I can't remember either, dernitall. Driving me nuts. All I remember thinking at the time was, Freddy is behaving like a child, and you should NEVER let your opponent know that anything gets to you.

NU Nish 13
08-19-2006, 07:31 PM
I can't remember either, dernitall. Driving me nuts. All I remember thinking at the time was, Freddy is behaving like a child, and you should NEVER let your opponent know that anything gets to you.

I think it was the Saturday game of the series against Boston...Beckett was giving up HRs left and right and Garcia gave the runs back every time...

Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 10:34 PM
Ozzie responds (from White Sox.com)


No excuses: Freddy Garcia pointed an indirect finger at a lack of offensive support following his Friday setback, mentioning that "if we don't really hit too much, where are we going to be?"

Guillen, who is the last one to make excuses when his team gets beat, didn't exactly back up Garcia's sentiment.

"I think that comment was unnecessary," Guillen said. "Players can say whatever they want to say, because it's their right, but we gave the lead to Freddy a couple of times and they tied the game a couple of times.

"Sometimes people should blame themselves when things happen. When we lose, we lose together. When we win, we win together. Comments like that, sometimes you say stuff, but when you have a 5.00 or 6.00 ERA, it's not easy, either."

The White Sox manager quickly added that Garcia is not the only starter with an inflated ERA, primarily because of the offensive potency among AL hitters. But Guillen also pointed out that the offense has carried the White Sox to their Wild Card lead in 2006.
"We are what we are because of our offense, no doubt about it," Guillen said.

"We haven't pitched right yet. We've pitched good enough to win that many games."

Lip

1951Campbell
08-19-2006, 10:43 PM
Freddy, you're not going to get to be "Big Game Freddy" if you don't win the "little" games that lead up to the big ones, so put down the one-hitter, stop whining, shut the **** up, and pitch!