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Patrick134
08-19-2006, 01:30 AM
Here's a little secret to all the chronic whiners around here. Winning the World Series doesn't guarrantee you admission to the next year's postseason.
Instead of the constant moaning about whats not happening, just relax and embrace what is happening. An honest to goodness pennant race. Of course, we'd all rather be 20 games ahead in the central, but we're not(yet).

We all get frustrated with slumping pitchers, and erratic hitters. But nothing is more irritating than seeing people post whining after every and any misplay. I'm not saying embrace and salute poor play. Just think before you post once in a while.

JB98
08-19-2006, 01:31 AM
Just wait until Caulfield12 reads this. :D:

delben91
08-19-2006, 01:33 AM
Here's a little secret to all the chronic whiners around here. Winning the World Series doesn't guarrantee you admission to the next year's postseason.
Instead of the constant moaning about whats not happening, just relax and embrace what is happening. An honest to goodness pennant race. Of course, we'd all rather be 20 games ahead in the central, but we're not(yet).

We all get frustrated with slumping pitchers, and erratic hitters. But nothing is more irritating than seeing people post whining after every and any misplay. I'm not saying embrace and salute poor play. Just think before you post once in a while.

:gulp:

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 07:44 AM
I'm a realist, which many are not apparently.

Lip himself predicted we might lose three of four to the Royals. Is that being a "dark cloud," well, it seems like it, but I'm not going to pretend everything is fine when it's not, because that strategy hasn't worked so well for Ozzie this season.

I'm sure I watch more Twins and Tigers games than the majority of posters here because I have MLB Extra Innings, and the similarities between this years' Twins and Tigers teams and last year's Sox are pretty uncanny. It's frustrating to wonder game after game why our team no longer plays like A team, while other teams end up being much more than the sum of all their parts. It's especially true of the Twins, and that's why the dominance of the Twins head-to-head versus the Sox (w/ the exception of last year) has not come as a surprise to most observers.

It's not that this year's White Sox don't try, they just don't try AS HARD. They're a good team, I think they will still make the playoffs (as much because Boston is collapsing completely), but they're not going to advance as far as they should because of the starting pitching.

Last year, teams were looking at Contreras and McCarthy and hoping to avoid them on their schedule. We're doing the same thing with Santana or Bonderman. Do you really think other teams' fans care which Sox starter they face?

gosox41
08-19-2006, 09:25 AM
I'm a realist, which many are not apparently.

Lip himself predicted we might lose three of four to the Royals. Is that being a "dark cloud," well, it seems like it, but I'm not going to pretend everything is fine when it's not, because that strategy hasn't worked so well for Ozzie this season.

I'm sure I watch more Twins and Tigers games than the majority of posters here because I have MLB Extra Innings, and the similarities between this years' Twins and Tigers teams and last year's Sox are pretty uncanny. It's frustrating to wonder game after game why our team no longer plays like A team, while other teams end up being much more than the sum of all their parts. It's especially true of the Twins, and that's why the dominance of the Twins head-to-head versus the Sox (w/ the exception of last year) has not come as a surprise to most observers.

It's not that this year's White Sox don't try, they just don't try AS HARD. They're a good team, I think they will still make the playoffs (as much because Boston is collapsing completely), but they're not going to advance as far as they should because of the starting pitching.

Last year, teams were looking at Contreras and McCarthy and hoping to avoid them on their schedule. We're doing the same thing with Santana or Bonderman. Do you really think other teams' fans care which Sox starter they face?


I'm just curious, how do you measure 'not trying as hard'?


Bob

bluestar
08-19-2006, 09:29 AM
I don't see any point in whining or complaining endlessly, but if I want to and the moderators of the board allow it, I'll do it. It seems to me the primary reason this board exists is to allow people to vent, and that means celebrating with other fans when things are going good, and sharing the misery when things aren't. It is very irritating when other members here (other than moderators) tell me what I should and should not be saying and thinking.

Quite frankly, I don't see a lot to "embrace" with this team. Sure, they currently are barely holding on to the AL Wild Card. If the season ended today, they would be in the playoffs, but the season doesn't end today, and this team looks to currently be on another downhill portion of this rollercoaster season. The constant underachieving and underperforming are frustrating, and if people feel the need to air those frustrations and they do it within the bounds of the rules here, they are free to do so. If other people don't like the negativity, they just need to skip those comments.

As for this:
Winning the World Series doesn't guarrantee you admission to the next year's postseason.

Maybe someone should relate this to Ozzie and the players.

voodoochile
08-19-2006, 09:30 AM
I'm a realist, which many are not apparently.

Lip himself predicted we might lose three of four to the Royals. Is that being a "dark cloud," well, it seems like it, but I'm not going to pretend everything is fine when it's not, because that strategy hasn't worked so well for Ozzie this season.

:rolling:

There were plenty of realists posting on this site last September when the lead fell to 1.5 or whatever. They were wrong then and there is no proof that has changed.

Here's reality. If the season ended today the Sox are IN the playoffs. OHMIGAWD, NO WAY!!! :rolleyes:

Sit back, strap it down and keep fighting. Lot's of time and lots of talent. 4 losses to the Twinkies isn't the end of the season. Every inning the Sox don't score or fail to lead is not a reason to slit your wrists and every game the Sox lose is not a reason to scream "season over".

GO SOX!!! :)

voodoochile
08-19-2006, 09:34 AM
I don't see any point in whining or complaining endlessly, but if I want to and the moderators of the board allow it, I'll do it. It seems to me the primary reason this board exists is to allow people to vent, and that means celebrating with other fans when things are going good, and sharing the misery when things aren't. It is very irritating when other members here (other than moderators) tell me what I should and should not be saying and thinking.

Quite frankly, I don't see a lot to "embrace" with this team. Sure, they currently are barely holding on to the AL Wild Card. If the season ended today, they would be in the playoffs, but the season doesn't end today, and this team looks to currently be on another downhill portion of this rollercoaster season. The constant underachieving and underperforming are frustrating, and if people feel the need to air those frustrations and they do it within the bounds of the rules here, they are free to do so. If other people don't like the negativity, they just need to skip those comments.

As for this:


Maybe someone should relate this to Ozzie and the players.

No, that is NOT the primary reason for the site. Venting is allowed, but extreme venting is called being a dark cloud and the abusers of the privilege do get smacked around occasionally by the mods because they insist on telling everyone at every turn how they are only being realists and everyone else is deluded. Personally, I call that cowerdice.

Stick to your guns or get the **** off my bandwagon. :cool:

bluestar
08-19-2006, 09:43 AM
No, that is NOT the primary reason for the site. Venting is allowed, but extreme venting is called being a dark cloud and the abusers of the privilege do get smacked around occasionally by the mods because they insist on telling everyone at every turn how they are only being realists and everyone else is deluded. Personally, I call that cowerdice.

Stick to your guns or get the **** off my bandwagon. :cool:

By "venting" I don't just mean complaining, but, as I said, also celebrating the good things. I guess it was a poor choice of words.

Anyway, my apologies for mis-stating the purpose of this message board. I thought it was a community for sharing the White Sox experience, good or bad.

I don't like it when other people tell me I need to "face reality" and accept the dark cloud prognostications, but it is equally annoying to me when others tell me I need to "embrace what is happening" and quietly accept the frustrating play the team is exhibiting of late.

I've said too much. I'll shut up now.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 10:09 AM
I think most Sox fans are a lot like Harrelson, which is why we love him when the Sox are winning and we can't wait to hear what he has to say when things are going astray.

Nobody whines and complains as much as Hawk does. This year, the big thing has been the umpiring conspiracy.

Yeah, it's easy to be on Cloud Nine after Monday and also easy to be in a pit of despair today. That's part of being a White Sox fan, it comes with the territory.

And, no matter what happens this year, a little of the edge has been taken off with the victory last year. That can never be taken away from us.

I watched every single game last year, even in the very worst moments, waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel. I am sure I will watch every game this year as well, I never gave up last year, and I won't this year either.

But the deck is definitely stacked against repeating from my perspective. I can't fault KW for anything he did this offseason, sometimes things work out and many times you end up with a David Wells, Todd Ritchie or Royce Clayton that blows up in your face.

KW and OG have learned a lot this year, and I think, no matter what happens from now on out, they have a very good idea of what needs to be done to fix this. Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily help us much right now. Personally, I'm glad they stood pat and didn't trade away the rest of their future, because there's something that nobody can quite put a finger on that's missing from this particular team.

The foundation or framework is still there, but it's not going to get any easier, with Detroit and Minnesota and even the Royals all making dramatic improvements. But you lose one or two pitchers to injury or they simply become ineffective and there's no recovery....even the Yanks have Sidney Ponson and the Red Sox have Jason Johnson starting.

starboy0
08-19-2006, 10:11 AM
A lot of Cub fans have come up to me and said, "Hey, what's wrong with the Sox?"

I let them know that having the 2nd or 3rd best record in baseball is not all that wrong. Of the 6 playoff teams last year, we're right at the top (maybe NY is a half game up on us). So that proves last year was not a fluke.

We have a good team! I do admit at times it appears they're not as hungry as last year but I concede this could be a misperception on my part.

I have accepted the fact the White Sox will not win the World Series every year for the rest of my life. That doesn't mean I don't expect Kenny to put the best team possible on the field, Ozzie to shrewdly manage, and the players to give it their all.

To win a World Series the following must be true about the team (not necessarily in this order): 1) Have talent 2) Are healthy 3) Are hungry 4) Are lucky.

#4 can figure more prominently than we would like to think. "Luck" or randomness of events is a part of the game that is not subject to control.

So rather than agonize over the possibility that the Sox might not repeat, when I go to the park I just enjoy the game at hand and root for our guys.

digdagdug23
08-19-2006, 10:15 AM
No, that is NOT the primary reason for the site. Venting is allowed, but extreme venting is called being a dark cloud and the abusers of the privilege do get smacked around occasionally by the mods because they insist on telling everyone at every turn how they are only being realists and everyone else is deluded. Personally, I call that cowerdice.

Stick to your guns or get the **** off my bandwagon. :cool:

Yeah, what Voodoo said, the last part being highly emphasized.

No team ever has the same make-up or chemistry throughout an entire season, let alone 2 seasons in a row. Trades are made, games are won/lost, Every team goes through its good days and bad, and you have no idea what is going on in the minds of each and every player. I myself believe in this team and what they are capable of, and that they will go to the post-season. I don't 'pretend' to know this team or any of the players, all I know is what I see. I also know that this is a very different team from last year, as well as the division. I also know that this team walks with a huge target on their backs. No matter where they go, whom they play, each team approaches them with the mentality of being 'defending World Champions'. You are not going to win every game, and yes, some have been ugly, but I remember those games last year, too. ESPECIALLY when we we couldn't buy a win last year and the 15 game lead practically evaporated before our eyes. If you want to whine and prognasticate and p*** your pants all over yourself, fine, no one is stopping you. Just remember that when you evaluate a team, you have to view it as a whole, not in segmentary pieces that fit with your scenario. At the end of the day, what you measure this team from is the performance on the season, not with a yardstick against last year. It is not the same team.

The Critic
08-19-2006, 10:16 AM
I'm just curious, how do you measure 'not trying as hard'?


Bob

Not trying as hard = not winning as much as some people would like.

I love the passion for the team that Sox fans have, but sometimes that passion leads to some hard-to-read posts/threads.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 10:17 AM
You also have to hand it to management, they've done everything that can be humanly done to make a repeat trip possible. They've increase payroll and attendance to levels one never could have imagined again as a Sox fan in 1997 or 1998. Imagine being a Marlins fan, now that would be excruciating, to see two World Series winning teams decimated. Of course, fans of teams like the Astros, Mariners, Indians, D-Rays, Rockies, Cubs, Orioles, Royals, Rangers, etc., would love to get just one World Series victory.

KW's philosophy has always been to put a team on the field that can consistently compete for championships and tweak it along the way...he's done that every single year but last year, when Blum was the only "tweak" necessary. And he has definitely succeeded in very quickly raising the bar of expecations, perhaps to unrealistic heights.

It's been decades since a Sox team 23 games over .500 at this point could be considered, by any stretch of the imagination, a disappointment.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 10:24 AM
Yeah, what Voodoo said, the last part being highly emphasized.

No team ever has the same make-up or chemistry throughout an entire season, let alone 2 seasons in a row. Trades are made, games are won/lost, Every team goes through its good days and bad, and you have no idea what is going on in the minds of each and every player. I myself believe in this team and what they are capable of, and that they will go to the post-season. I don't 'pretend' to know this team or any of the players, all I know is what I see. I also know that this is a very different team from last year, as well as the division. I also know that this team walks with a huge target on their backs. No matter where they go, whom they play, each team approaches them with the mentality of being 'defending World Champions'. You are not going to win every game, and yes, some have been ugly, but I remember those games last year, too. ESPECIALLY when we we couldn't buy a win last year and the 15 game lead practically evaporated before our eyes. If you want to whine and prognasticate and p*** your pants all over yourself, fine, no one is stopping you. Just remember that when you evaluate a team, you have to view it as a whole, not in segmentary pieces that fit with your scenario. At the end of the day, what you measure this team from is the performance on the season, not with a yardstick against last year. It is not the same team.

Maybe that's the problem, that no White Sox team can EVER live up to last year's memories, no matter what they do. It's like the 1985 Bears or saying, well, Tiger's doing great, but why can't he dominate like he did in 2000?

And it might take not making the playoffs or failing in them before we can let go and move forward.

For three to four years, I wanted them to keep the Big Hurt, Magglio, Carlos and Jose Valentin together so they could win a championship when the pitching came around. Every year, I was optimistic they were just a piece or two from getting back to the "magic" of 2000. But that train had already left the station, and it was time to start over, as hard as that was for me to do.

I get the sense that a new identity will emerge with this team in the future, player like Pods, Uribe and Garcia will be gone, replaced by a Sweeney here, a Fields there, a McCarthy...and the link with last year's team and comparisons to it will be broken.

Just like the Red Sox couldn't hope to repeat their magical season of 2004, it's probably too much for us to expect to recapture the same "spirit" that elevated us to the top. If it were so easy, then it wouldn't be so special.

Perhaps the final piece of this is our new status as favorites. We're blue collar, South Side, the underdogs, the underappreciated...not a team with 7 All-Stars and a $100 million budget. Psychologically, it's not an easy adjustment when you've carried a chip on your shoulders for the 25 or so years the Cubs have been "it" in town.

bayzbol44
08-19-2006, 10:42 AM
So a thread is useless and stupid if someone is "complaining" about the way the White Sox are playing??? Are you only a fan if you cheer and are happy with the way they play? However, it is not a stupid thread or post when it is about the damn team on the North Side???

voodoochile
08-19-2006, 10:48 AM
So a thread is useless and stupid if someone is "complaining" about the way the White Sox are playing??? Are you only a fan if you cheer and are happy with the way they play? However, it is not a stupid thread or post when it is about the damn team on the North Side???

No, but constant whining about the Sox situation when as it sits they are the WC team is extreme, don't you think?

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 10:57 AM
Go the Red Sox boards.

They are verging on suicidal.

And this is a team that has lost 8 AL East Championships in a row to the Yankees.

With great achievements come great expectations. It's a lot better than being a Royals, Pirates or D-Rays fan.

digdagdug23
08-19-2006, 11:19 AM
So a thread is useless and stupid if someone is "complaining" about the way the White Sox are playing??? Are you only a fan if you cheer and are happy with the way they play? However, it is not a stupid thread or post when it is about the damn team on the North Side???


http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:dSDf013FpUpRfM:http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/Department_of_redundancy_dep_2_small.jpg

"Please take all questions pertaining to this topic to the line to the left. You will be right behind the person with the horse that is dead, but they continue to beat it"

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 11:44 AM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:dSDf013FpUpRfM:http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/Department_of_redundancy_dep_2_small.jpg

"Please take all questions pertaining to this topic to the line to the left. You will be right behind the person with the horse that is dead, but they continue to beat it"
Classic :thumbsup:

hawkjt
08-19-2006, 12:07 PM
In the last 63 games the twins have the best record in baseball- 46-17, while the sox have a record of 36-27, ten games worse.

The twins are a good team and the sox have won 5 of 11 so far. That is not being dominated. Even two years ago, the sox were like 9-10 against them. Not domination in my book.

This is a pennant race and there is 42 games to go. It is supposed to be entertainment,after all., relax and enjoy the journy.

southside rocks
08-19-2006, 12:08 PM
What I don't understand is getting angry with the White Sox when they lose a game. What's up with that?? I understand being disappointed when we see the Sox not playing as well as we think they can. But the pronouncements that get posted in the "I've had enough of this" vein are hilarious! And the clamor that this player be traded, that pitcher be moved to the bullpen, and the manager be horsewhipped, practically, are just juvenile and silly, to me.

Somebody in this thread said that if what the Sox did in 2005 were easy, it wouldn't be so special. Hear, hear. That was a miracle of a season, in many ways, and we fans will cherish it forever. I get goosebumps every single time I see that intro video at the park, and I hope that feeling never wears off.

Can the Sox do it again this year, win it all? Sure they can! Will they? I have no idea, but I'm eagerly watching and hoping. What I'm not doing is going berserk when they don't replicate 2005 in every last hit, pitch, and win. What's that adage about you can't step twice into the same river? Life moves on, and so do baseball seasons.

voodoochile
08-19-2006, 12:13 PM
What I don't understand is getting angry with the White Sox when they lose a game. What's up with that?? I understand being disappointed when we see the Sox not playing as well as we think they can. But the pronouncements that get posted in the "I've had enough of this" vein are hilarious! And the clamor that this player be traded, that pitcher be moved to the bullpen, and the manager be horsewhipped, practically, are just juvenile and silly, to me.

Somebody in this thread said that if what the Sox did in 2005 were easy, it wouldn't be so special. Hear, hear. That was a miracle of a season, in many ways, and we fans will cherish it forever. I get goosebumps every single time I see that intro video at the park, and I hope that feeling never wears off.

Can the Sox do it again this year, win it all? Sure they can! Will they? I have no idea, but I'm eagerly watching and hoping. What I'm not doing is going berserk when they don't replicate 2005 in every last hit, pitch, and win. What's that adage about you can't step twice into the same river? Life moves on, and so do baseball seasons.

:thumbsup::worship::sunshine:

bluestar
08-19-2006, 01:22 PM
What I don't understand is getting angry with the White Sox when they lose a game. What's up with that?? I understand being disappointed when we see the Sox not playing as well as we think they can. But the pronouncements that get posted in the "I've had enough of this" vein are hilarious! And the clamor that this player be traded, that pitcher be moved to the bullpen, and the manager be horsewhipped, practically, are just juvenile and silly, to me.

Somebody in this thread said that if what the Sox did in 2005 were easy, it wouldn't be so special. Hear, hear. That was a miracle of a season, in many ways, and we fans will cherish it forever. I get goosebumps every single time I see that intro video at the park, and I hope that feeling never wears off.

Can the Sox do it again this year, win it all? Sure they can! Will they? I have no idea, but I'm eagerly watching and hoping. What I'm not doing is going berserk when they don't replicate 2005 in every last hit, pitch, and win. What's that adage about you can't step twice into the same river? Life moves on, and so do baseball seasons.

I agree with this, too. Very well said.

As I have said elsewhere, I have seriously considered stepping back from my avid baseball involvement for awhile this year. I don't understand why I am so much more frustrated this year than I have been in prior disappointing years.

But I agree with the sentiment that it is only a game, and if it cannot be enjoyed for what it is, then it is better to find some other distraction in life. Life is much too short to waste a lot of energy fretting over the performance of a baseball team.

I just need to keep telling myself that. :smile:

voodoochile
08-19-2006, 01:38 PM
I agree with this, too. Very well said.

As I have said elsewhere, I have seriously considered stepping back from my avid baseball involvement for awhile this year. I don't understand why I am so much more frustrated this year than I have been in prior disappointing years.

But I agree with the sentiment that it is only a game, and if it cannot be enjoyed for what it is, then it is better to find some other distraction in life. Life is much too short to waste a lot of energy fretting over the performance of a baseball team.

I just need to keep telling myself that. :smile:

The funny thing is if this were any other season, no one would be "frustrated" by the current situation. One of the top records in baseball and leading in the WC standings would have most of us doing cartwheels and high-fiving our buddies even if we were nervous about our recent difficulties against the Twinkies.

It's also interesting that you refer to this season as disappointing because again, any other season all of us would be jumping up and down in glee right now.

That's the part that gets to me. This season hasn't been disappointing to me in the least. Yeah, I expected to be winning the division handily by now, but what can you do about a team like the Tigers coming out of nowhere and getting white hot all season long. The Sox are on a pace to win 95+ games and make the playoffs. I would hardly term that disappointing or frustrating.

kobo
08-19-2006, 01:42 PM
For me, the lack of consistent play is what has gotten to me this year. I don't really think I have whined about this season, but I have spoken up about the lack of consistency this team has had for most of the season. Like Hawk has said on numerous occasions, this team just can't find a rhythm. I thought they were finally starting to get some rhythm after the Yankess and Tigers were in town, but the last 3 games against the Royals and then last night's game they have lost whatever rhythm or consistency they had. The starting pitching has had a lot to do with that this year, but then again, the Sox are still in the WC lead and still one of the best teams in the majors. I just want them to play to their potential and play more consistently, and I don't think that is much to ask for. I still think they will make the playoffs and I still believe in this team, that isn't going to change.

0o0o0
08-19-2006, 01:52 PM
The funny thing is if this were any other season, no one would be "frustrated" by the current situation. One of the top records in baseball and leading in the WC standings would have most of us doing cartwheels and high-fiving our buddies even if we were nervous about our recent difficulties against the Twinkies.

It's also interesting that you refer to this season as disappointing because again, any other season all of us would be jumping up and down in glee right now.

That's the part that gets to me. This season hasn't been disappointing to me in the least. Yeah, I expected to be winning the division handily by now, but what can you do about a team like the Tigers coming out of nowhere and getting white hot all season long. The Sox are on a pace to win 95+ games and make the playoffs. I would hardly term that disappointing or frustrating.

I think it's because all the hype surrounding the team before and during the early part of the season:

"They're gonna be BETTER than LAST YEAR'S TEAM?! OMG!!!"

I remember a thread before the season started that asked how many games each starting pitcher would win. Needless to say, the numbers that were being posted were ridiculously high.

The expectations were insane and it seems that baseball, more often than any other sport, doesn't always seem to go as expected.

MarySwiss
08-19-2006, 01:59 PM
The funny thing is if this were any other season, no one would be "frustrated" by the current situation. One of the top records in baseball and leading in the WC standings would have most of us doing cartwheels and high-fiving our buddies even if we were nervous about our recent difficulties against the Twinkies.

It's also interesting that you refer to this season as disappointing because again, any other season all of us would be jumping up and down in glee right now.

That's the part that gets to me. This season hasn't been disappointing to me in the least. Yeah, I expected to be winning the division handily by now, but what can you do about a team like the Tigers coming out of nowhere and getting white hot all season long. The Sox are on a pace to win 95+ games and make the playoffs. I would hardly term that disappointing or frustrating.

I think a big part of it is because we realize how talented this team is and that they often underperform. I mean, look how well they're doing despite that.

I have no doubt they'll be there in the end, but they just seem to be making it a lot harder than it should be.

batmanZoSo
08-19-2006, 02:04 PM
I think it's because all the hype surrounding the team before and during the early part of the season:

"They're gonna be BETTER than LAST YEAR'S TEAM?! OMG!!!"

I remember a thread before the season started that asked how many games each starting pitcher would win. Needless to say, the numbers that were being posted were ridiculously high.

The expectations were insane and it seems that baseball, more often than any other sport, doesn't always seem to go as expected.

We should've seen it coming. Every time the White Sox have been expected to win, they've flopped. If you look at it from that perspective, this hasn't been too bad at all. :wink:

Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 02:05 PM
Just a few points.

Caulfield I think you're confusing me with someone else. I never said or even hinted that the Sox could lost 3 of 4 to the Royals.

No numbers were ever thrown out at anytime.

I said that I feared a letdown (and that part did come true in the two games) but never said they'd lose three of four or even could lose three of four. (perhaps you inferred that...)

Hawkjt:

No a 5-6 record isn't dominating. However the Twins have won 6 of the last 8 meetings. That is getting into dominating territory. That's what the Sox should be doing for example against garbage teams like Cleveland and Kansas City.

And I agree with those who talk about the frustration and roller coaster season the team is having.

It's frustrating because they have superior talent, yet have lost 24 games to team's with losing records, far to many. It's frustrating because the very first week of spring training exhibition games Ozzie had to call a meeting about 'effort,' (that says a lot...) and it's frustrating because this club seems to have forgotten what made them great in the first place and Ozzie has publicy talked about it at least three times including just last week.

Lip

soxruleEP
08-19-2006, 02:21 PM
With great achievements come great expectations. It's a lot better than being a Royals, Pirates or D-Rays fan. Emphasis added.

Uh, no. How is it better to know the best you can hope for is the team wins 70 games?

Which would've been his point: It's a lot better being a White Sox fan than being a fan of any of those teams.

southside rocks
08-19-2006, 02:53 PM
As I have said elsewhere, I have seriously considered stepping back from my avid baseball involvement for awhile this year. I don't understand why I am so much more frustrated this year than I have been in prior disappointing years.

I'm experiencing the same thing, and I think the frustration is greater, even though we know that there is much less reason for frustration, because we've tasted Winning Big and now we're hooked, we want more. Always before, when we fans talked about the Sox winning it all, we had NO idea what that would be like and how it would make us feel. Now we do. It was fabulous. Gimme some more. :tongue:

I also know what you mean about decreasing the involvement, or at least the intensity of it. I do that by watching as many other ballgames as I can, and reading baseball writing that has nothing to do with the White Sox. Right now I have the Yankees/Red Sox game on ESPN radio and I'm listening. I'm not rooting for either team; I have no fan stake in this game (no, I'm not calculating out how many games to secure the wild card, etc.) -- I just like listening to baseball games.

I read a bunch of great baseball books this year, including "Juicing the Game" and "Game of Shadows" and Roger Angell's collection of 40 years of baseball pieces. Right now I'm reading "Feeding the Monster" which is Seth Mnookin's book about how the 2004 Red Sox team was built, why it succeeded, and what happened after that. Well-written and highly informative, it satisfies my baseball craving without activating the "rabid fan" part of my psyche. :D:

thomas35forever
08-19-2006, 03:01 PM
Go the Red Sox boards.

They are verging on suicidal.

And this is a team that has lost 8 AL East Championships in a row to the Yankees.

And yet they won the more recent World Series championship of the two teams.

samram
08-19-2006, 03:02 PM
Emphasis added.



Which would've been his point: It's a lot better being a White Sox fan than being a fan of any of those teams.

Ah. Misread that. I deleted my post.:cool:

thomas35forever
08-19-2006, 03:06 PM
I think it's because all the hype surrounding the team before and during the early part of the season:

"They're gonna be BETTER than LAST YEAR'S TEAM?! OMG!!!"

I remember a thread before the season started that asked how many games each starting pitcher would win. Needless to say, the numbers that were being posted were ridiculously high.

The expectations were insane and it seems that baseball, more often than any other sport, doesn't always seem to go as expected.
I guess we have been spoiled and we were expecting too much of this team. We were still celebrating a world championship, so we thought our team was still virtually unstoppable. Don't blame the WBC for Freddy and Javy's seasons. It's just been a crappy year for both of them. We just have to win to make the playoffs.

I wonder what happened to last year's "Win or Die Trying" strategy. They must have been a different team last year.

TornLabrum
08-19-2006, 03:34 PM
Do threads like this mean that Sox fans will no longer be satisfied if they win just one championship in their lifetimes?

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 03:34 PM
I read the "Clemente" book by David Maraniss recently. I guess it's hard to live up to Clemente's example in terms of play...usually, I'm just happy when we hit the cut-off man.

Very good, and I've read almost everything ever written about Clemente. Also read the Schuerholz book, but that was garbage. Not sure about the book written by the Baseball Prospectus dude (about how championship teams are constructed)...

southside rocks
08-19-2006, 04:29 PM
The Clemente book sounds interesting, I'll have to check it out.

I am 2/3 of the way through "SI Great Baseball Writing" and there's a piece in there on Clemente, written by Myron Cope in 1966. I think it's a slightly different perspective than what has been written since Clemente's death. :cool:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/magazine/05/16/si.baseball/index.html

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 04:46 PM
One thing I didn't know was that he basically ended Drysdale's career with a ball that was hit so hard that it nipped Don's ear going back up through the middle.

southside rocks
08-19-2006, 04:55 PM
One thing I didn't know was that he basically ended Drysdale's career with a ball that was hit so hard that it nipped Don's ear going back up through the middle.
I never knew that. That's pretty ironic -- or karmic, maybe. Drysdale, the ultimate headhunter, got a taste of it himself. Yikes. :o:

StockdaleForVeep
08-19-2006, 05:21 PM
Here's a little secret to all the chronic whiners around here. Winning the World Series doesn't guarrantee you admission to the next year's postseason.
Instead of the constant moaning about whats not happening, just relax and embrace what is happening. An honest to goodness pennant race. Of course, we'd all rather be 20 games ahead in the central, but we're not(yet).

We all get frustrated with slumping pitchers, and erratic hitters. But nothing is more irritating than seeing people post whining after every and any misplay. I'm not saying embrace and salute poor play. Just think before you post once in a while.

Although i keep the faith, being up 2 games or so is not good, you want a cushion. You shouldnt let up, this is also comin from a club that is notorious for second half slumps for the past 7 years. The staff has been inconsistant the past month and a half, contreras since his streak broke, buehrle since ASG, vasquez definately lately since ASG, and garland has been keepin us afloat.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 05:49 PM
Well, the Red Sox are definitely opening the door for both the Sox and Twins.

Huge start for Schilling coming up...could be the season on the line.

I disagree about Vazquez, by and large, since his Toronto start, he's been somewhat better. I certainly wouldn't say that he's getting worse. Losing that game against Hernandez was a bunch in the gut of his "reform effort" though.

digdagdug23
08-19-2006, 05:57 PM
Well, the Red Sox are definitely opening the door for both the Sox and Twins.

I know it is SUCH a sports cliche, but so true,

WE ARE IN CONTROL OF OUR OWN DESTINY, PERIOD.

If this team can play enough winning ball against the right teams, the rest becomes irrelevant.

If they do so, great, if not, well, I would feel confident in saying that there will be some changes to the line-up for next season.

bayzbol44
08-19-2006, 07:35 PM
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:dSDf013FpUpRfM:http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/Department_of_redundancy_dep_2_small.jpg

"Please take all questions pertaining to this topic to the line to the left. You will be right behind the person with the horse that is dead, but they continue to beat it"

Haahaha. What a comedian.

SluggersAway
08-19-2006, 08:54 PM
But nothing is more irritating than seeing people post whining after every and any misplay.

Correction: Nothing is more irritating than whining about whining.

ChiSox14305635
08-19-2006, 11:06 PM
Correction: Nothing is more irritating than whining about whining.

Nothing is more irritating than someone whining about someone whining. :redneck

But seriously, all the hand-wringing's got to stop. Sox are 2 games up in the wild card, with about 40 games to go. No one said it would ever be easy, nor should it. You'd think the way this team handled September last year would give some people a bit of confidence in this team.

Hunker down
08-19-2006, 11:40 PM
How many years has our season been over by the 4th of July. Except for the last month of 2005, every time the Sox have won a division, '83,'93,'00, they've had the divison wrapped up early. They've never been in a spot where every game ment as much as it does this year. Sit back and enjoy a true pennant race this year. Have faith in the White Sox. :gulp:

southside rocks
08-20-2006, 07:44 AM
You'd think the way this team handled September last year would give some people a bit of confidence in this team.
Yes, but they had Aaron Rowand last September! :redneck

Seriously, I am enjoying every minute of this White Sox season. I've been to a bunch of games at the Cell, and at every one of those games I've sat near people who could talk Sox baseball; I've seen some great games; and I've screamed myself hoarse for the White Sox. It's a blast.

PeteWard
08-20-2006, 08:02 AM
I never knew that. That's pretty ironic -- or karmic, maybe. Drysdale, the ultimate headhunter, got a taste of it himself. Yikes. :o:

And then we got a taste of his announcing :(: Double Yikes. He was among the worst ever. Just a loathesome personality. Felt like he thought he was gracing the southside with his Dodger Blue pedigree. He and Harrelson were almost as bad as MCCarver and Buck. But in a way worse, 'cuz they were "ours". And this afte Hayy and Jimmy. Dark years for me.

Lip Man 1
08-20-2006, 12:50 PM
Pete:

I disagree. Drysdale and Harrelson were among the best Sox pairs that I ever heard. Not as good as Harry and Jimmy but much better then most or do you want to go back to the Bob Elson / Red Rush days? or how about Jack Drees and Bud Kelly! Yikes!!!

Both knew the game, Drysdale had a pleasant voice and Hawk was where he should have been for his entire career, as an analyst.

Hunker:

Pennant races ARE great...as long as you win them. When you don't (a la 1964 and 1967) it's a very, very long cold winter.

Lip

TornLabrum
08-20-2006, 01:55 PM
Pete:

I disagree. Drysdale and Harrelson were among the best Sox pairs that I ever heard. Not as good as Harry and Jimmy but much better then most or do you want to go back to the Bob Elson / Red Rush days? or how about Jack Drees and Bud Kelly! Yikes!!!

I'm partial to Jack Brickhouse and Harry Creighton. Especially the live reads of Hamme's ads during the second games of doubleheaders. Creighton made Caray look like the President of the WCTU.