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View Full Version : *Official* What the Boof was that?!- Sox vs. Twinkies 8/18/06 Postgame Thread


Kwrubac
08-18-2006, 10:56 PM
Sigh...:?:

slobes
08-18-2006, 10:58 PM
This was supposed to be the easy game of the series. We gotta pull it together the rest of this road trip, or we're in trouble.

100 Year Itch
08-18-2006, 10:58 PM
Looking rather lifeless.

I also want to point out how yet another Sox pitcher surrendered the momentum one half inning after the offense wrestled it away.

slobes
08-18-2006, 10:59 PM
Looking rather lifeless.

I also want to point out how yet another Sox pitcher surrendered the momentum one half inning after the offense wrestled it away.

And he did it twice.

1951Campbell
08-18-2006, 10:59 PM
That sucked, we may have to resurrect the Airplane! post-game thread theme to have a good laugh and shake it off.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 10:59 PM
Well, Torii Hunter just said the Twins would be happy with two out of three...and that he was scared when Thome, Dye and Konerko came to the plate. That's something, I guess.

JB98
08-18-2006, 10:59 PM
That sucked, we may have to resurrect the Airplane! post-game thread theme to have a good laugh and shake it off.

Good idea. We just got outplayed tonight.

stl_sox_fan
08-18-2006, 10:59 PM
Let's hope Jon G can bring it tomorrow so they can get one out of this series. Javier vs Johan on Sunday.....I don't even want to think about the score of that game.

SOXBOY
08-18-2006, 10:59 PM
Once again the Sox sleep walking thur the game when it is a big game.

Timmy D's
08-18-2006, 11:00 PM
Ughhh that was ugly. Well hopefully the L is out of our system the rest of the road trip, and also hopefully we will never have to hear Farmer laugh and giggle and say Boof ever again like he did all day yesterday, and tonight.

gobears1987
08-18-2006, 11:01 PM
Bleh:angry:

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:01 PM
Be careful saying that, someone will point out that it's Baseball 101.

Well, if it's so obvious you shouldn't automatically surrender the lead, why do our pitchers keep doing it so predictably? Wonder if Don Cooper has any unique insights that have escaped everyone else's notice or attention...

RowanDye
08-18-2006, 11:01 PM
Bad game for B&.

I just hope we can get one of these next two and get out of town with the WC lead...

RadioheadRocks
08-18-2006, 11:02 PM
That sucked, we may have to resurrect the Airplane! post-game thread theme to have a good laugh and shake it off.

Or we can carry over some of the fun from this thread: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=77292 "Hey dog experts: any idea what this is?"

mmmmmbeeer
08-18-2006, 11:02 PM
Once again the Sox sleep walking thur the game when it is a big game.


I don't recall seeing the Sox sleepwalk through a big game since, oh, 2004. They usually sleepwalk against crap opponents, which the Twins are not. I don't know what's going on with this team.

alohafri
08-18-2006, 11:02 PM
This was supposed to be the easy game of the series. We gotta pull it together the rest of this road trip, or we're in trouble.

I fear we get swept. There is no intensity in this team. Ozzie keeps Garcia in too long (just like he does with Javy), and then he brings in the batting practice pitcher, oh wait, that was Neal Cotts.

stl_sox_fan
08-18-2006, 11:02 PM
Ughhh that was ugly. Well hopefully the L is out of our system the rest of the road trip, and also hopefully we will never have to hear Farmer laugh and giggle and say Boof ever again like he did all day yesterday, and tonight.

I'll have to catch the replay of Hunter's HR. You mentioned in an earlier post that a kid almost got hurt. What was up with that?

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:04 PM
Bad game for B&.

I just hope we can get one of these next two and get out of town with the WC lead...

I agree. In that dome, just avoid the sweep. It's a bad place for us, and for most American League teams.

All we need is one to keep our lead. Let's get it done tomorrow, and then we'll roll the dice on Sunday.

Let's not give in to the temptation to write off Sunday's game. Santana has been having blister problems lately. If Bernero can beat Contreras, why can't Vazquez beat Santana?

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:04 PM
I guess it could be worse, we could be that guy in Thailand who claims to have killed jon-benet, or the director of the school that hired him to work around 2nd graders.

TornLabrum
08-18-2006, 11:05 PM
I'm beginning to feel like I did in 1984 when the Sox seemed to have the attitude that they were so good they could turn it on anytime, but then they never did.

This crap with giving back the runs the offense gets a half inning later reminds me of the Jerry Manuel days.

FJA
08-18-2006, 11:05 PM
I guess it could be worse, we could be that guy in Thailand who claims to have killed jon-benet, or the director of the school that hired him to work around 2nd graders.

:?:

southside rocks
08-18-2006, 11:05 PM
There is no intensity in this team.

It was the Zombie Sox tonight.

And did Freddy Garcia really win Game 4 of the 2005 World Series by shutting out the Houston Astros, or did I just dream that? Because this year, I swear he thinks a shutout means giving up "just" 3 or 4 runs.

Frustrating to watch this one, so I flipped back and forth to the Braves/Marlins game. An ump got whacked in the head by a broken bat in that game -- very scary.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:06 PM
Alohafri, that's heresy. You should be tarred and feathered or at least burned at the stake, maybe after being drawn and quartered.

How dare question Garcia and Cotts being out there instead of McCarthy or Thornton?

Kwrubac
08-18-2006, 11:07 PM
Heh, Mr. I'm a big game pitcher didn't show up tonight...go figure

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:08 PM
The worst thing is that Garcia and Vazquez always seem to pitch badly enough to lose, but not so badly that we can countenance putting McCarthy into the rotation.

Ozzie is so stubborn, we might have to wait until next year to see if we can get to the playoffs with Brandon playing a leading role.

PeteWard
08-18-2006, 11:08 PM
Once again the Sox sleep walking thur the game when it is a big game.

That's funny. What happened to "Playing down to the competiion"? :rolleyes:

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:09 PM
That atmosphere was like playing at Texas A&M back in the day.

No wonder they won in 1987 and 1991. We just need to escape somehow with tomorrow's game and hope to get to Santana or have a great outing from Vazquez.

DachnoPiitu
08-18-2006, 11:09 PM
During the game there was a sign behind homeplate that read "Driving Drunk?" but for a brief second, while Garcia was on the mound, I thought it read "Pitching Drunk?" Apparently, either way, you lose.

Timmy D's
08-18-2006, 11:10 PM
I'll have to catch the replay of Hunter's HR. You mentioned in an earlier post that a kid almost got hurt. What was up with that?

Yeah, the ball whizzed about a foot past this lady holdin what looked to be about a 2-3 month old baby!! Guy behind her caught it, and you could see her on the replay kinda w/ that whoooaaaa, shocked look on her face.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:10 PM
Apparently PCP or heavy hallucinogenics are needed, ala Dock Ellis with the Pirates in the 70's.

Maybe that will help his fastball or his new, "secret" forkball that everyone already knows about in the league.

alohafri
08-18-2006, 11:11 PM
Alohafri, that's heresy. You should be tarred and feathered or at least burned at the stake, maybe after being drawn and quartered.

How dare question Garcia and Cotts being out there instead of McCarthy or Thornton?

I was going to blame Widger...

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:12 PM
I blame it on ESPN, the Pesky Pole and David Ortiz then.

DickAllen72
08-18-2006, 11:12 PM
The Twins looked like the better team tonight. They definitely played better baseball. The Twins pitch better, play better defense and run the bases better.

Hawk and others have commented that the Sox lack intensity. That's something Carl Everett used to bring and something that was not replaced.

Let's see what happens the next six games. Sox need to turn it up big time or they'll have a hard time even making the playoffs.

cnw8052
08-18-2006, 11:13 PM
I'm so glad the game wasn't televised here, it was painful enough to hear it on the radio.

The Sox just don't seem like they are trying IMO.

ndu3t4
08-18-2006, 11:14 PM
I'm getting really sick of Jim's inability to hit lefties. I'm even sicker of Neal Cott's inability to get outs.

That being said, let's get these guys tomorrow. Big John's our stopper, he should do his job. I heard Johan's had blister trouble, so I think they can take the next two.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-18-2006, 11:15 PM
Garcia is the most frustrating starter we have. He gives up runs early every single start to put the team behind after the first inning; can't hold a runner so everyone gets a free pass to second; can't hold a lead to give his teammates a chance, just demoralizes them by giving the opposition the lead again; and pitches so slow that everyone on defense falls asleep. No wonder the team always looks listless behind him.

I can't wait for KW to trade him this offseason.

thomas35forever
08-18-2006, 11:16 PM
It's obvious the Twins are showing more heart right now. We gotta win tomorrow or we're in serious trouble.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:16 PM
It has been obvious for at least two months now.

That the Twins are the better team, possibly, without Liriano even, is what has shocked me the most.

Would Ford, Tyner, Bartlett, Punto, Castillo or Cuddyer even start on most teams? Heck, Uribe has almost as many homers as Cuddyer, yet Cuddyer is also second in the AL in RBI's with two outs. Those are the hits we didn't come up with tonight when we needed them.

I'm almost positive if Tyner played LF for us all season and Pods was on the Twins that we'd be five games clear of Minnesota, at least.

alohafri
08-18-2006, 11:16 PM
I heard Johan's had blister trouble, so I think they can take the next two.

Which means a 2 hit shutout.

DachnoPiitu
08-18-2006, 11:16 PM
The Twins looked like the better team tonight. They definitely played better baseball. The Twins pitch better, play better defense and run the bases better.

Hawk and others have commented that the Sox lack intensity.

The Sox just don't seem like they are trying IMO.

second :(:

Ziggy S
08-18-2006, 11:17 PM
I think Airplane is very appropriate right now.

Freddy Garcia Had Another Decent Start.

White Sox Drop Another Game to the Twins

Johnny-There's a sale at Penny's

Me-Looks like I picked the wrong weekend to quit doing amphetamines.

alohafri
08-18-2006, 11:17 PM
I'm almost positive if Tyner played LF for us all season and Pods was on the Twins that we'd be five games clear of Minnesota, at least.

Not unless Tyner can pitch too.

Viva Medias B's
08-18-2006, 11:18 PM
I missed most of the game due to work, but I did hear Hawk imply that Minnesota wanted it more than we did.

stl_sox_fan
08-18-2006, 11:18 PM
Something I have been noticing alot lately. Stolen bases and AJ. I checked ESPN, he is 19/87 in catching baserunners. 22%. Only Vic Martinez of CLE is worse out of catchers who have played the required minimum. Hawk mentioned a few games back that it was alot of times, the pitchers not giving AJ a chance to throw runners out. Whatever it is, those numbers stink.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:18 PM
Yeah, like MJ almost didn't play against the Jazz because of a 102 degree temperature. LOL.

It only works when it's a Jon Garland flu and he's doped up, not when Johan Santana is the opponent.

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:19 PM
The Twins looked like the better team tonight. They definitely played better baseball. The Twins pitch better, play better defense and run the bases better.

Hawk and others have commented that the Sox lack intensity. That's something Carl Everett used to bring and something that was not replaced.

Let's see what happens the next six games. Sox need to turn it up big time or they'll have a hard time even making the playoffs.

The Sox had plenty of intensity against Detroit over the weekend. The intensity level was a concern against Kansas City, especially Wednesday. Tonight, I think we just got outpitched.

Kwrubac
08-18-2006, 11:19 PM
Something I have been noticing alot lately. Stolen bases and AJ. I checked ESPN, he is 19/87 in catching baserunners. 22%. Only Vic Martinez of CLE is worse out of catchers who have played the required minimum. Hawk mentioned a few games back that it was alot of times, the pitchers not giving AJ a chance to throw runners out. Whatever it is, those numbers stink.

It doesn't help that Freddy and Jose are slow to the plate and most if not all teams take advantage of this...

Kwrubac
08-18-2006, 11:20 PM
The Sox had plenty of intensity against Detroit over the weekend. The intensity level was a concern against Kansas City, especially Wednesday. Tonight, I think we just got outpitched.

I would agree, we just can't seem to do well against Rookie pitching...Props to the Twinkies for knowing when to pull Boof...

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:20 PM
Something I have been noticing alot lately. Stolen bases and AJ. I checked ESPN, he is 19/87 in catching baserunners. 22%. Only Vic Martinez of CLE is worse out of catchers who have played the required minimum. Hawk mentioned a few games back that it was alot of times, the pitchers not giving AJ a chance to throw runners out. Whatever it is, those numbers stink.

Garcia and Contreras are responsible for that. I'll bet 30 runners have successfully stolen on Freddy this season. AJ just has no chance.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:21 PM
Minnesota now has more than 50 LESS stolen bases against their team than we do.

Contreras and Garcia are relentless in giving up SB's. Garcia now has over 30, and is second in all the majors. Great category to be in the leaders, by the way.

I'm sure AJ would be around 25-30% w/ Buehrles and Garlands on the mound.

There's no talk of making AJ a 1B like w/ Martinez in CLEVE. AJ is fine, not great, but average arm and a good game manager.

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:22 PM
I would agree, we just can't seem to do well against Rookie pitching...Props to the Twinkies for knowing when to pull Boof...

Yeah, they got him out at exactly the right time. We had better swings the second time through the order, and the six guys who got to face him three times were all over him.

Neshek came in and put out the fire quickly.

stl_sox_fan
08-18-2006, 11:22 PM
I would agree, we just can't seem to do well against Rookie pitching...Props to the Twinkies for knowing when to pull Boof...

Unfortunately Ozzie is a disciple of the Church Of LaRussa..."You got yourself into this mess....you get yourself out of it". Jason Marquis needs therapy this year after the beatings he's taken.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:22 PM
However, Contreras most of the time, has the ability to pitch out of his messes. Not like last year, but pretty good.

To add insult to injury, Bernero went on the DL today, he beat us while he was hurting.

Kwrubac
08-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Unfortunately Ozzie is a disciple of the Church Of LaRussa..."You got yourself into this mess....you get yourself out of it". Jason Marquis needs therapy this year after the beatings he's taken.

I would agree, last year it usually panned out well for the starters, this year not so much.

MadetoOrta
08-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Another uninspired effort. I hate the thought that the last 3 games of the year at the Twinkiedome will determine the fate of the Sox. And I'm sure I'll catch heat for this but - does Jim Thome ever get big hits late in the game? Are 1/2 of his homers in those 12-2 wins? If there is true leadership on this squad, I hope it emerges soon. I almost started a thread this afternoon saying "Who here would take a 4-3 road trip?" I didn't because I must be a polyanna. I thought we'd sweep these guys and clear room in the Wild Card standings. Wrong. Folks, we're battling the Twinkies and Bosox for the Wild Card. Frustrating.

caulfield12
08-18-2006, 11:24 PM
Especially with a vulnerable Bonser on the mound and a Detroit loss in the books.

Lip Man 1
08-18-2006, 11:25 PM
I thought their best chance to grab a win would be tonight and...well you saw how they looked.

The schizoid Sox, you never know who is going to show up.

Cotts by the way seems to have reverted back to 2004 when he simply couldn't throw strikes.

And the Twins have now won 6 of the last 8 meetings. Yea Hawk's right, they 'want' it more.

Lip

Jerko
08-18-2006, 11:26 PM
I predict a 3-4 trip. Win tomorrow and split with Detroit. Hope I'm wrong and they go 6 and ****in 1.

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:27 PM
Another uninspired effort. I hate the thought that the last 3 games of the year at the Twinkiedome will determine the fate of the Sox. And I'm sure I'll catch heat for this but - does Jim Thome ever get big hits late in the game? Are 1/2 of his homers in those 12-2 wins? If there is true leadership on this squad, I hope it emerges soon. I almost started a thread this afternoon saying "Who here would take a 4-3 road trip?" I didn't because I must be a polyanna. I thought we'd sweep these guys and clear room in the Wild Card standings. Wrong. Folks, we're battling the Twinkies and Bosox for the Wild Card. Frustrating.

I can think of plenty examples of Thome getting big hits late in the game. I hope you're not going to make me go through the trouble of posting all of them. Hell, I can think of one game where we got one freakin' hit, and we won because it was Thome's.

MadetoOrta
08-18-2006, 11:29 PM
I thought their best chance to grab a win would be tonight and...well you saw how they looked.

The schizoid Sox, you never know who is going to show up.

Cotts by the way seems to have reverted back to 2004 when he simply couldn't throw strikes.

And the Twins have now won 6 of the last 8 meetings. Yea Hawk's right, they 'want' it more.

Lip

Lip, You're right about the schizoid Sox. If the Twins "want it more" then either players with crap attitudes need to be moved or there's a problem at the helm. Just my opinion.

stl_sox_fan
08-18-2006, 11:34 PM
Ha!
Skanberg had a great Palehose Six regarding Big Battle Freddy. Dude is scary funny.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7577/1975/1600/biggame.0.jpg

Lip Man 1
08-18-2006, 11:34 PM
Made:

I keep waiting for Ozzie to explode, to have a profane team meeting and nothing ever happens. It's just weird considering the way he was last season.

And no I don't think the 'sensativity training' has a damn thing to do with it. He was 'different' from as far back as spring training when the Sox looked lifeless in getting blasted in their first four exhibitions.

I don't know.

Lip

PeteWard
08-18-2006, 11:35 PM
Lip, You're right about the schizoid Sox. If the Twins "want it more" then either players with crap attitudes need to be moved or there's a problem at the helm. Just my opinion.

How can anyone tell that "they want it more"? That's nonsense.:mad:

DannyCaterFan
08-18-2006, 11:36 PM
Theres just a lack of intensity with this team, and it has been there for some time now. Not sure if it's the loss of a Carl Everett or Aaron Rowand, but those guys came to play every night. Maybe it's just having to endure watching someone like Garcia pitch. His body language looks like he doesn't care, he can't hold a lead or a runner on first. Maybe the rest of the team picks up on all that and plays like he does. Garcia needs to go. I am sick of every single turning into an automatic double because of a stolen base!

slobes
08-18-2006, 11:36 PM
Made:

I keep waiting for Ozzie to explode, to have a profane team meeting and nothing ever happens. It's just weird considering the way he was last season.

And no I don't think the 'sensativity training' has a damn thing to do with it. He was 'different' from as far back as spring training when the Sox looked lifeless in getting blasted in their first four exhibitions.

I don't know.

Lip

That's what I'm waiting for too. Ozzie has gotta blow up at someone--the team, an ump, a fan, I don't really care at this point. We just need someone to breathe some life back into this team.

Jerko
08-18-2006, 11:37 PM
Can somebody, anybody, PLEASE hold maybe Tyner and/or Punto under 3 hits?????????? Pretty Please?????? I might as well add Babe Bartlett to the group now; I see he took an o-fer tonight, which means a 4 hit performance tomorrow. That's why these guys look like they "want it" more; none of them were starters when the year began and to their credit, they're playing like they want to stay in the lineup.

starboy0
08-18-2006, 11:37 PM
I'm beginning to feel like I did in 1984 when the Sox seemed to have the attitude that they were so good they could turn it on anytime, but then they never did.

This crap with giving back the runs the offense gets a half inning later reminds me of the Jerry Manuel days.

You hit the nail on the head twice. Looks very much like the '84 team attitude.

Then you can't put up a zero next inning.

I've reconciled myself to the fact that they're just not as hungry as last year.

stl_sox_fan
08-18-2006, 11:38 PM
That's what I'm waiting for too. Ozzie has gotta blow up at someone--the team, an ump, a fan, I don't really care at this point. We just need someone to breathe some life back into this team.
Careful what you wish for.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51526

A little humor injected into an otherwise crappy night.

PeteWard
08-18-2006, 11:38 PM
That's what I'm waiting for too. Ozzie has gotta blow up at someone--the team, an ump, a fan, I don't really care at this point. We just need someone to breathe some life back into this team.

He just got tossed during the Tigers or Yanks series.

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:39 PM
How can anyone tell that "they want it more"? That's nonsense.:mad:

I agree. BS.

Lip Man 1
08-18-2006, 11:42 PM
Pete:

I mean a tirade in the locker room akin to Wiliams' turning the food tables over.

I mean getting in people's faces and threatening benchings if guys don't start hustling, using their head and excuting the small things that made the team champions.

I mean breaking toilets with a bat, ripping a telephone out of the wall and all the things that guys like Billy Martin, Hal McRae and Earl Weaver used to do.

THAT's how you get a team's attention after 121 games.

This saying in the post game 'well we didn't play well' or 'well we didn't pitch well' solves nothing does it? I mean it's not like this is the first time he's used lines like that is it? FIX the problem.

Lip

Lip Man 1
08-18-2006, 11:44 PM
JB:

I'm not one of Hawk's biggest supporters but like him or not, the man has been around the game at the major league level since the mid 60's.

That's about 40 years more then I have. When he says (on more then one occasion lately) another team 'wants' it more...I tend to believe him.

Lip

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:47 PM
JB:

I'm not one of Hawk's biggest supporters but like him or not, the man has been around the game at the major league level since the mid 60's.

That's about 40 years more then I have. When he says (on more then one occasion lately) another team 'wants' it more...I tend to believe him.

Lip

I think Hawk gets frustrated just as easily as many of us do here. I don't take his opinion as the gospel because he is obviously biased.

jenn2080
08-18-2006, 11:47 PM
JB:

I'm not one of Hawk's biggest supporters but like him or not, the man has been around the game at the major league level since the mid 60's.

That's about 40 years more then I have. When he says (on more then one occasion lately) another team 'wants' it more...I tend to believe him.

Lip


you and me both. i dont get it anymore. we have an AWESOME team and i just dont get what is happening. We should be steamrolling teams.

Chisox003
08-18-2006, 11:49 PM
I think Hawk gets frustrated just as easily as many of us do here. I don't take his opinion as the gospel because he is obviously biased.
What does him being biased have to do with his calling out the team? :?:

BeviBall!
08-18-2006, 11:51 PM
We better see an offensive explosion tomorrow, in retaliation.

JB98
08-18-2006, 11:52 PM
What does him being biased have to do with his calling out the team? :?:

Easy. He is really, really, really pro-Sox. To the point where he cries whenever a call goes against us, to the point where he pouts when we are losing a game. Him saying the Sox "don't want it" has just as much weight with me as Caulfield12's teeth-gnashing over in the gameday thread. Hawk says things that are irrational in the heat of battle, just as many WSI posters (including me) do from time to time. I just don't take any of that stuff to be true.

slobes
08-18-2006, 11:52 PM
He just got tossed during the Tigers or Yanks series.

Exactly, and then they started to get hot. Unfortunately though, the KC series seemed to take the life out of them again.

CommanderPudge72
08-18-2006, 11:53 PM
I think Hawk gets frustrated just as easily as many of us do here. I don't take his opinion as the gospel because he is obviously biased.

I don't know about you, but he says much of what I am thinking as a fan...while I run my version of the towel drill.....which consists of throwing my bean bag Sox ball at the screen every time Cotts pitches.

More beer....God I am glad I passed up going to the bar with a couple of Cub fans tonight.

SoxFanPrope
08-18-2006, 11:56 PM
Be careful saying that, someone will point out that it's Baseball 101.

Well, if it's so obvious you shouldn't automatically surrender the lead, why do our pitchers keep doing it so predictably? Wonder if Don Cooper has any unique insights that have escaped everyone else's notice or attention...
I think the point of baseball is that you are not suppose to surrender runs at all. Whether or not you have the lead does not matter. All teams know that, and all pitchers know that. If they are surrendering the lead, they just aren't pitching well. Instead of pointing out the obvious statement, we should be examing why it is the pitchers are not making the pitches.

jenn2080
08-18-2006, 11:57 PM
I don't know about you, but he says much of what I am thinking as a fan...while I run my version of the towel drill.....which consists of throwing my bean bag Sox ball at the screen every time Cotts pitches.

More beer....God I am glad I passed up going to the bar with a couple of Cub fans tonight.


Thanks to Chips and The Dude I was at the Bears game with my little brother so I didnt have to watch that **** of a game.:angry: :angry: :angry:

PeteWard
08-18-2006, 11:58 PM
Easy. He is really, really, really pro-Sox. To the point where he cries whenever a call goes against us, to the point where he pouts when we are losing a game. Him saying the Sox "don't want it" has just as much weight with me as Caulfield12's teeth-gnashing over in the gameday thread. Hawk says things that are irrational in the heat of battle, just as many WSI posters (including me) do from time to time. I just don't take any of that stuff to be true.

It's a stupid football cliche. Yes if you know someone is not in shape or is overheard saying they don't care, or if they don't hustle, then you can say they "don't want it". Does anyone think the Sox wanted it more than Houston last year? No bloody way. But the Sox pitched and fielded magnificently.They were just better.

This year they are scalding the ball and scoring more runs than any team in baseball. So I think our hitters "want it".

The problem is the pitching sucks.Is it because a few guys are having lousy years at the same time or that MB,FG,NC, etc "don't want it enough"? I think the latter is laughable in the extreme.

TornLabrum
08-19-2006, 12:00 AM
I don't know about you, but he says much of what I am thinking as a fan...while I run my version of the towel drill.....which consists of throwing my bean bag Sox ball at the screen every time Cotts pitches.

Hmmm...I'll have to remember that. I've been throwing a baseball. :D:

CommanderPudge72
08-19-2006, 12:00 AM
Thanks to Chips and The Dude I was at the Bears game with my little brother so I didnt have to watch that **** of a game.:angry: :angry: :angry:

I am envious....at least you saw the better game....that is what my friends were going to go out and watch...but I bailed as I got home late and knew that if the Sox got into trouble, I'd never hear the end of it...

And I did not feel like playing nice today.

How was the crowd....good?

Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 12:01 AM
JB:

Hawk being biased though does nothing to mitigate the fact that he's been around major league baseball for forty something years.

As stated, that's 40 more years then I have (and I think you as well...)

What he sees, what he feels, what he hears from being around these guys day after day after day speaks volumes in my opinion.

And the fact that he is biased in my opinion makes critical comments even more telling. Even when things were going bad last season (and in 2003, 2004) did you ever hear him 'call out' the team like he's been doing the past few weeks?

PHG made a brilliant observation one time that bears repeating. Hawk is Jerry's mouthpiece. When he starts saying something, you can be sure the chairman is thinking the exact same thing.

Just something to consider.

And Pete, what you say makes sense HOWEVER when things are going south, it's the manager's job to correct them. Not to just show up on the post game and mouth 'we didn't play well...' That's something morons like Jerry Manuel and Terry Bevington said. I expect action from Ozzie Guillen, not cliches.

Lip

CommanderPudge72
08-19-2006, 12:03 AM
Hmmm...I'll have to remember that. I've been throwing a baseball. :D:


Yeah, it's a good tension release....I haven't reached the level of affluence where I can pull an Elvis and throw a Rawlings at my widescreen yet when the Sox disappoint....although it is something to "shoot" for. heehehe

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:03 AM
It's a stupid football cliche. Yes if you know someone is not in shape or is overheard saying they don't care, or if they don't hustle, then you can say they "don't want it". Does anyone think the Sox wanted it more than Houston last year? No bloody way. But the Sox pitched and fielded magnificently.They were just better.

This year they are scalding the ball and scoring more runs than any team in baseball. So I think our hitters "want it".

The problem is the pitching sucks.Is it because a few guys are having lousy years at the same time or that MB,FG,NC, etc "don't want it enough"? I think the latter is laughable in the extreme.

I think people look for an easy explanation sometimes. Accusing someone of "not wanting it" is a lot easier than digging deeper for the root of the problem. Truth is, I don't know why the team is so schizophrenic. Clearly, though, the biggest problem on this club is starting pitching. When a pitching staff goes bad, it makes your whole team look bad.

You and I are on the same side here, but I think we're in the minority.

BadBobbyJenks
08-19-2006, 12:06 AM
It's obvious the Twins are showing more heart right now. We gotta win tomorrow or we're in serious trouble.




after every loss we are in serious trouble:rolleyes:


give me a break people

got beat everyway possible tonight, see ya tomorrow end of story

jenn2080
08-19-2006, 12:06 AM
I am envious....at least you saw the better game....that is what my friends were going to go out and watch...but I bailed as I got home late and knew that if the Sox got into trouble, I'd never hear the end of it...

And I did not feel like playing nice today.

How was the crowd....good?

ya crowd was good. good game and enviorment for my 8 yr old bro to see his first game.


i keep an almost empty bottle by my side so i can throw it when the sox make me mad.

Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 12:07 AM
Bad Bobby;

Perhaps Thomas meant because if they lose tomorrow it's sweep city on Sunday with Johan baby on the hill.

Lip

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:07 AM
JB:

Hawk being biased though does nothing to mitigate the fact that he's been around major league baseball for forty something years.

As stated, that's 40 more years then I have (and I think you as well...)

What he sees, what he feels, what he hears from being around these guys day after day after day speaks volumes in my opinion.

And the fact that he is biased in my opinion makes critical comments even more telling. Even when things were going bad last season (and in 2003, 2004) did you ever hear him 'call out' the team like he's been doing the past few weeks?

PHG made a brilliant observation one time that bears repeating. Hawk is Jerry's mouthpiece. When he starts saying something, you can be sure the chairman is thinking the exact same thing.

Just something to consider.

And Pete, what you say makes sense HOWEVER when things are going south, it's the manager's job to correct them. Not to just show up on the post game and mouth 'we didn't play well...' That's something morons like Jerry Manuel and Terry Bevington said. I expect action from Ozzie Guillen, not cliches.

Lip

But has Hawk considered the possibility that the Twins are a better club than us? I know I have. They certainly have a better pitching staff than we do. If they beat us out for the wild card, perhaps they are just the better team. I think Hawk believes the 2006 Sox are the greatest team ever assembled. He doesn't even give the slightest thought to the notion that we are merely a good team, not a great team.

Maybe the Sox players want it just as much as the Twins. Maybe the Twins are just better.

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 12:11 AM
You and I are on the same side here, but I think we're in the minority.
Not in the minority on my end.

Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 12:12 AM
JB:

The Twins were in a coma the first two months of the season. With respect go down that roster man for man...which club do you want? I don't mean just pitching I mean the entire roster. (and Liriano is hurt to boot...)

Hal's point earlier is telling about the 1984 team. Some of those players told me themselves that club was overconfident. They had talent that couldn't be touched and somehow found a way to screw the season up.

I give Minnesota credit for having for very talented players. But they don't compare with the Sox talent laden roster. Which makes the Sox difficulties all season and particularly since the All Star break so tough to swallow.

But the bottom line is don't just say 'we didn't play well...' DO something to start getting them to play well.

Which goes back to my 'tirade' comment.

It's LONG overdue.

Lip

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:12 AM
Not in the minority on my end.

That's because you agree with me. :D:

I think we might be outnumbered though.

CommanderPudge72
08-19-2006, 12:13 AM
ya crowd was good. good game and enviorment for my 8 yr old bro to see his first game.


i keep an almost empty bottle by my side so i can throw it when the sox make me mad.

Did the Bears do the first game certificate for you....??? Curious, thought it was a good idea.

I use the bean bag because I am trying pacificism....:wink:

Glad you had fun, my game plan has led me to watch half of a bad Sox game and now writing frieghtening verse about Neil Cotts on the internet while watching a guilty pleasure "Cocktail" on cable....how is that for poor evening planning?

I am part of the "don't let this happen to you" crowd tonight.:wink:

BadBobbyJenks
08-19-2006, 12:13 AM
But has Hawk considered the possibility that the Twins are a better club than us? I know I have. They certainly have a better pitching staff than we do. If they beat us out for the wild card, perhaps they are just the better team. I think Hawk believes the 2006 Sox are the greatest team ever assembled. He doesn't even give the slightest thought to the notion that we are merely a good team, not a great team.

Maybe the Sox players want it just as much as the Twins. Maybe the Twins are just better.



are u kidding me???????????

Besides Santana and Liriano who is hurt Ill take every position player from the sox...eh maybe not aj over mauer but come on Minnesota is not on our level

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 12:16 AM
That's because you agree with me. :D:

I think we might be outnumbered though.
We are misunderstood, as genius often is.

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:17 AM
JB:

The Twins were in a coma the first two months of the season. With respect go down that roster man for man...which club do you want? I don't mean just pitching I mean the entire roster. (and Liriano is hurt to boot...)

Hal's point earlier is telling about the 1984 team. Some of those players told me themselves that club was overconfident. They had talent that couldn't be touched and somehow found a way to screw the season up.

I give Minnesota credit for having for very talented players. But they don't compare with the Sox talent laden roster. Which makes the Sox difficulties all season and particularly since the All Star break so tough to swallow.

But the bottom line is don't just say 'we didn't play well...' DO something to start getting them to play well.

Which goes back to my 'tirade' comment.

It's LONG overdue.

Lip

I do think the Sox have more talent than the Twins, but I'm not sure the gap is as wide as conventional wisdom dictates. FWIW, I think we're going to beat them out for the wild card. I do think we are a better team than them. But I'm also willing to entertain the possibility that I might be wrong. Look at the last 8-10 weeks: The Twins have been kicking some serious ass.

Last year, I didn't think our club stacked up very well with Boston on paper, but we beat the piss out of them in the playoffs. We were a better club than the Red Sox last season, despite them having more talent.

If this club is overconfident, then I trust that Ozzie knows that, and that he'll do something about it.

Jerko
08-19-2006, 12:18 AM
Let's just beat Bad Radke tomorrow and maybe we'll get lucky on Sunday.

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:19 AM
are u kidding me???????????

Besides Santana and Liriano who is hurt Ill take every position player from the sox...eh maybe not aj over mauer but come on Minnesota is not on our level

They are one game behind us in the standings. They are on our level. Both these teams are solid playoff contenders.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:19 AM
For instance, after our mandatory bunting practices, did we see a marked improvement in that aspect of the team's play. Yeah, for a couple of games in Toronto. Then it disappeared as fast as a 3-0 Contreras lead, which never would have happened last year in the second half.

Maybe we're spoiled too much by the starting pitchers' efforts last season, and we couldn't have realistically expected a 3.61 team ERA again, but I think an ERA of around 4.00 w/ improved offense was intended to balance out. Essentially, we're even, but we're not winning as many close games. However, to an observer of most teams, there's a huge difference.

Maybe Garcia will never be a sub 4.50 ERA pitcher again. Maybe Vazquez will never go on a Contreras or Loiaza-like run. Maybe Brandon McCarthy will never join the starting rotation. I'm just tired of the status quo...even if we somehow survive and get to the playoffs, our pitching doesn't match up, because we don't even have three quality starters right now.

Even the Red Sox match up favorably with us in a short series...the Tigers, Angels, A's, Twins and Yankees all have three better starters in the top three spots in their rotations in terms of being positioned for deep playoff runs.

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 12:21 AM
For instance, after our mandatory bunting practices, did we see a marked improvement in that aspect of the team's play. Yeah, for a couple of games in Toronto. Then it disappeared as fast as a 3-0 Contreras lead, which never would have happened last year in the second half.

Maybe we're spoiled too much by the starting pitchers' efforts last season, and we couldn't have realistically expected a 3.61 team ERA again, but I think an ERA of around 4.00 w/ improved offense was intended to balance out. Essentially, we're even, but we're not winning as many close games. However, to an observer of most teams, there's a huge difference.

Maybe Garcia will never be a sub 4.50 ERA pitcher again. Maybe Vazquez will never go on a Contreras or Loiaza-like run. Maybe Brandon McCarthy will never join the starting rotation. I'm just tired of the status quo...even if we somehow survive and get to the playoffs, our pitching doesn't match up, because we don't even have three quality starters right now.

Even the Red Sox match up favorably with us in a short series...the Tigers, Angels, A's, Twins and Yankees all have three better starters in the top three spots in their rotations in terms of being positioned for deep playoff runs.
I wish people would use the 'quote' button when responding to others statements.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:22 AM
The same thing was said in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and now this year vis a vis the Twins. I wonder when fans who seriously follow baseball will understand that games are not played out on PlayStation screens with Rotisserie league predictability. If they were, the Yankees and Red Sox would win every season.

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 12:23 AM
It's a stupid football cliche. Yes if you know someone is not in shape or is overheard saying they don't care, or if they don't hustle, then you can say they "don't want it". Does anyone think the Sox wanted it more than Houston last year? No bloody way. But the Sox pitched and fielded magnificently.They were just better.
It's funny because Boers and Bernstein were talking about this topic today. Have the KC Royals given up for the year? They obviously haven't because they split with us. No team doesn't want to win. The statement itself is ludicrous.

Chisox003
08-19-2006, 12:23 AM
are u kidding me???????????

Besides Santana and Liriano who is hurt Ill take every position player from the sox...eh maybe not aj over mauer but come on Minnesota is not on our level
Talent level or level of play?

Obivously, up and down our roster, we have tremendously talented individual players.

But according to the W/L column, they might have the better TEAM. You know, the thing we won the World Series with?

Now if the Sox ever come together as a "team" with this collection of talented players, they might not lose another game. But unfortunately that hasn't been the case this year for an extended period of time...yet, anyway.

Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 12:24 AM
JB says:

"If this club is overconfident, then I trust that Ozzie knows that, and that he'll do something about it."

JB:

Something should have been done MONTHS ago when they started out pissing away three games the first week including two to the Royals in my opinion.

I agree Ozzie should do something. The questions are why hasn't he already and when will he finally 'go off'?

Lip

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:25 AM
It's funny because Boers and Bernstein were talking about this topic today. Have the KC Royals given up for the year? They obviously haven't because they split with us. No team doesn't want to win. The statement itself is ludicrous.

Exactly. Mark Buerhle is struggling mightily, but I guarantee you he wants to win badly. He isn't trying to lose games. Neither is Neal Cotts, tonight's designated scapegoat. No one, and I mean no one, is going out there not wanting to win, or trying to lose a ball game.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:27 AM
Talent level or level of play?

Obivously, up and down our roster, we have tremendously talented individual players.

But according to the W/L column, they might have the better TEAM. You know, the thing we won the World Series with?

Now if the Sox ever come together as a "team" with this collection of talented players, they might not lose another game. But unfortunately that hasn't been the case this year for an extended period of time...yet, anyway.

We have a "talented" bullpen, scouts would probably say we are better individually than Minnesota. Yet statistics tell the true story. The Twins have had one of the best bullpens in the league, no matter who their personnel has been, for going on five years now. Even last year, their pen was very good. We have three potential closers and what used to be first-rate set-up men in Riske and Cotts as our last two, and a long man that had five quality starts in a row in the heat of a pennant race including games against Boston, at Minnesota and at Texas.

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:33 AM
JB says:

"If this club is overconfident, then I trust that Ozzie knows that, and that he'll do something about it."

JB:

Something should have been done MONTHS ago when they started out pissing away three games the first week including two to the Royals in my opinion.

I agree Ozzie should do something. The questions are why hasn't he already and when will he finally 'go off'?

Lip

Maybe Ozzie doesn't think overconfidence is a problem. He's with these guys every day. He's more qualified to judge than you or I. I thought the team let down emotionally against the Royals, but that's speculation on my part.

We're going to find out a lot about this team the rest of this trip. I think we can all agree on that. This road trip isn't going to make or break the season, but it's going to set the stage for what we need to do in September in order to make the playoffs.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:34 AM
I want someone to answer THIS question.

When's the last time you saw a member of the Twins not hustle?

How many players on the White Sox this year hustle 100% of the time, especially running out groundballs or breaking up double plays, no matter what the situation?

Thome most of the time, Ozuna and Gload. Cintron sometimes. Crede hustled tonight to avoid that double play.

You can call it whatever you want, desire, hustle....it's the same thing that got Carlos Lee traded, because he wouldn't go into second base hard after one of our players was almost killed. One of the biggest plays of this season was the double play that Marcus Thames broke up against us earlier this season.

It's not that the White Sox don't want to win...every player wants to win...but are they willing to go that extra 10% to get it done? It doesn't mean playing out of control or recklessly or running into walls or diving into first base, but you know it when you see it. It's even more obvious when you don't see it.

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 12:38 AM
I want someone to answer THIS question.

When's the last time you saw a member of the Twins not hustle?

How many players on the White Sox this year hustle 100% of the time, especially running out groundballs or breaking up double plays, no matter what the situation?

Thome most of the time, Ozuna and Gload. Cintron sometimes. Crede hustled tonight to avoid that double play.

You can call it whatever you want, desire, hustle....it's the same thing that got Carlos Lee traded, because he wouldn't go into second base hard after one of our players was almost killed. One of the biggest plays of this season was the double play that Marcus Thames broke up against us earlier this season.

It's not that the White Sox don't want to win...every player wants to win...but are they willing to go that extra 10% to get it done? It doesn't mean playing out of control or recklessly or running into walls or diving into first base, but you know it when you see it. It's even more obvious when you don't see it.
I'd like you to answer this question...

Is it that they are not hustling, or is it just your perception that they are not hustling because they are flat out playing poorly?

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:38 AM
Did anyone see what happened to the Red Sox in the 7th?

Their bullpen is falling apart now. It looks like the White Sox and Twins are going to be the main drama down the stretch.

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:41 AM
I want someone to answer THIS question.

When's the last time you saw a member of the Twins not hustle?

How many players on the White Sox this year hustle 100% of the time, especially running out groundballs or breaking up double plays, no matter what the situation?

Thome most of the time, Ozuna and Gload. Cintron sometimes. Crede hustled tonight to avoid that double play.

You can call it whatever you want, desire, hustle....it's the same thing that got Carlos Lee traded, because he wouldn't go into second base hard after one of our players was almost killed. One of the biggest plays of this season was the double play that Marcus Thames broke up against us earlier this season.

It's not that the White Sox don't want to win...every player wants to win...but are they willing to go that extra 10% to get it done? It doesn't mean playing out of control or recklessly or running into walls or diving into first base, but you know it when you see it. It's even more obvious when you don't see it.

I've attended 26 games personally this year, and I don't see lack of hustle as a problem. I've seen some bad baserunning. I've seen outfielders get bad jumps on balls. But I haven't seen guys dogging it.

Uribe has been hot-dogging it at SS too much since the All-Star break, but that's the only effort issue I have with the team.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:43 AM
I'd like you to answer this question...

Is it that they are not hustling, or is it just your perception that they are not hustling because they are flat out playing poorly?

Wouldn't you expect "complementary" players like Cintron, Mackowiak, Anderson, Uribe, Gload, Ozuna, Iguchi and Pods to always hustle, to show their pride as major league players?

Because I watched Minnesota when they were bad, and they always ran out every ball to first base. No Manny Ramirezes on this team. It's a formula that's ingrained throughout their minor league system. Everyone can hit to the opposite field, bunt, squeeze, hit the cut-off man, etc.

Pods, who was the catalyst last year, and whose statistics, at a glance without having watched him game after game, seem okay...he's just not the same player. Tentative, tentative, tentative....both defensively and on the basepaths. You never see that with the Twins. You almost always see their players taking the extra base and putting the pressure on the defense. Somewhere between last year and this year, that part of our offense disappeared. Then Cora started trying to force the issue and gets runners thrown out trying to be overly aggressive.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:45 AM
I've attended 26 games personally this year, and I don't see lack of hustle as a problem. I've seen some bad baserunning. I've seen outfielders get bad jumps on balls. But I haven't seen guys dogging it.

Uribe has been hot-dogging it at SS too much since the All-Star break, but that's the only effort issue I have with the team.

And you've seen or had no issues with Pods' effort all year long?

It's going to be easy to say get rid of Pods, Uribe and Garcia/Vazquez and all the problems for this team are solved, but I'm sure it's not going to be that easy.

JB98
08-19-2006, 12:46 AM
And you've seen or had no issues with Pods' effort all year long?

It's going to be easy to say get rid of Pods, Uribe and Garcia/Vazquez and all the problems for this team are solved, but I'm sure it's not going to be that easy.

No, I have no issues with Pods' effort.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:47 AM
Hmmmm....Kansas City swept the hottest team in baseball, the Oakland A's.

I guess that should make us feel a little better. Although KC is a much better team at home.

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 12:49 AM
All I know is that the ball he hit up the middle and Castillo got to, it should have been a much closer play if Pods was running all out...when speed is your primary asset, you have to put more pressure on the defense to make the "great" player instead of the "above average" one.

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 12:52 AM
Wouldn't you expect "complementary" players like Cintron, Mackowiak, Anderson, Uribe, Gload, Ozuna, Iguchi and Pods to always hustle, to show their pride as major league players?
Correct me if I am wrong, but if you add Jim Thome and Javier Vazquez to that list, that is six players on the Sox who do not have World Series rings. Given the fact that they are holding onto the WC, you don't think they are busting their ass everyday? You really think that?

Because I watched Minnesota when they were bad, and they always ran out every ball to first base. No Manny Ramirezes on this team. It's a formula that's ingrained throughout their minor league system. Everyone can hit to the opposite field, bunt, squeeze, hit the cut-off man, etc.
Yes, because only the Minnesota Twins teach their ball players what you have to do to win. You just might be the Uber-Dark Cloud.

Pods, who was the catalyst last year, and whose statistics, at a glance without having watched him game after game, seem okay...he's just not the same player. Tentative, tentative, tentative....both defensively and on the basepaths.
My guess is that since Pods already has his ring, and a Playboy wife, he's just going to phoning it in this year. What else does he have to play for anyways?
Or.....
Maybe he is slumping. I understand that might be a novel concept, but some players do go through it. I read something the other day that Willy Mays didn't have a hit in something like his first 20 at bats. Something tells me that if message boards were around back then, you'd be saying he wasn't trying either.

SoxFanPrope
08-19-2006, 12:53 AM
Hmmmm....Kansas City swept the hottest team in baseball, the Oakland A's.

I guess that should make us feel a little better. Although KC is a much better team at home.
Plus they really want it.

jacobwalls
08-19-2006, 01:18 AM
theres only one good think about tonights game and that it dosnt matter how the pitching matchup looks its still up for grabs. so hopefully we can give the twins some karma on sunday.

0o0o0
08-19-2006, 01:51 AM
Dear Sox,

http://www.griswold.k12.ia.us/pmcweb/images/wake%20up.jpg

kitekrazy
08-19-2006, 02:02 AM
I agree. In that dome, just avoid the sweep. It's a bad place for us, and for most American League teams.

All we need is one to keep our lead. Let's get it done tomorrow, and then we'll roll the dice on Sunday.

Let's not give in to the temptation to write off Sunday's game. Santana has been having blister problems lately. If Bernero can beat Contreras, why can't Vazquez beat Santana?

Quite true. Twins don't lose often at home.

StillMissOzzie
08-19-2006, 02:17 AM
Ugh. We went out to the Kane County Cougars game tonight, and we left after getting drenched in the 2nd rain delay of the night. This gave me the golden opportunity to catch the 6th and 7th innings on the radio and the 8th and 9th innings on TV at home.
Lke the Royals game with Contreras vs. Bernero, who is now on the DL with elbow issues, I felt that this game with Garcia vs. the immortal Boof Bonser was heavily tolted toward the Sox. And, just like the Royals game, I was shocked, stunned, and disappointed with the results.
I think that the Saturday game is a MUST win, because:

1) I sure don't like our chances vs. Santana, especially if it's to avoid a sweep.
2) I dread even more the prospects of limping in Detroit after getting swept by the Twinks, especially since the Sox would also be back in 3rd place if that happens.

And please - no more reminders of 1984!!! Between the high expectations of the "Let's do it again, like we did last summer!" marketing campaign, and the surprising Cub resurgence to win their division, that was the worst season in recent memory.

SMO
:angry:

Nellie_Fox
08-19-2006, 02:32 AM
Well, I'm back from the Humpdome. It's a long trip up there and back from Mankato. Actually, kind of like Chicagoans going up to Milwaukee for a game.

I got to say hello to Buehrle4Cy05 during batting practice. Other than that, not too much fun. It's a depressing place to watch baseball on a good night.

kitekrazy
08-19-2006, 02:39 AM
Because I watched Minnesota when they were bad, and they always ran out every ball to first base. No Manny Ramirezes on this team. It's a formula that's ingrained throughout their minor league system. Everyone can hit to the opposite field, bunt, squeeze, hit the cut-off man, etc.

Pods, who was the catalyst last year, and whose statistics, at a glance without having watched him game after game, seem okay...he's just not the same player. Tentative, tentative, tentative....both defensively and on the basepaths. You never see that with the Twins. You almost always see their players taking the extra base and putting the pressure on the defense. Somewhere between last year and this year, that part of our offense disappeared. Then Cora started trying to force the issue and gets runners thrown out trying to be overly aggressive.

Yep, that's why the Twins seem to have winning seasons.

Grzegorz
08-19-2006, 06:18 AM
Maybe the Sox players want it just as much as the Twins. Maybe the Twins are just better.
The Twins sure seem to be the better team; they bring to mind the phrase: "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

Here are things I am tired of:

Ozzie's lack of apparent fire; where is the passion he showed earlier in the year when he had these guys out there bunting and working on fundamentals?

The scapegoating of Pods; he's not having the year we expected him to have after being surgically corrected, but to say he's complacent because he has a WS ring and a trophy wife if laughable. BTW, congrats on the trophy wife, I sure hope she has some depth.

Why is it this team cannot seem to put up a zero? Someone else mentioned this in an earlier in this post. We tie or go ahead and immediately the Twins tie or move ahead.

I am tired of Garcia period, but I am especially tired of his innate ability to give up runs early in the game. Every time Freddie takes the mound I am hoping the White Sox put up six runs or more because I have little faith that Freddie can stop the other team (that is why I was shocked last Sunday against the Tiggers).

I am tired of Freddie and Contraras not being able to hold runners on to at the very least give AJ a chance at throwing someone out. AJ's not the best throwing catcher out there but with Freddie and JC dealing he has no chance. That is why I am willing to see both Freddie and JC dealt in the off-season. In the case of JC I hearken back to the words of Branch Rickey: "Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late."

I am really tired of hearing that when Santana takes the mound that it should be assumed that the White Sox will lose. If that is the case then why not leave for Detroit a day early? I am tired of Santana and his aura of invincibility.

Just a couple of other points. I really do feel for Cotts after last nights game; he jams Morneau only to have the ball fall between Iguchi and BA. Actually one has to give Cuddeyer credit; he was running hard all the way and when the ball bounced over BA's head he scored. These are the little things that produce wins.

Hopefully BA is out there today; the kid is the future and he'll be a good one.

I am hoping Jon Garland can shut the Twins down while the offense produces run support for him and that the White Sox show up on Sunday against Santana with malice on their minds.

These games are so important; a bad stretch here doesn't eliminate the White Sox from the playoffs mathematically but it would put the team in a position of where they might have to jump teams to get to the wild card.

Again, with a quote from Branch Rickey: "If things don't come easy, there is no premium on effort. There should be joy in the chase, zest in the pursuit."

I don't see the zest; do you?

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 07:32 AM
I just don't know how you could have predicted Buehrle would struggle so badly this season...would you have traded him during the off-season? Garcia is a little more predictable, because he had huge innings pitched and pitch counts in general for a number of years in Seattle, plus the extra stress of the playoffs two or three times. Plus, the WBC.

We didn't trade Buehrle or Garcia, but we certainly had a Plan B in place with McCarthy, which KW, Cooper and OG have apparently decided to forego for reasons I don't entirely understand.

We bought Thome as low as possible...Dye...AJ...Iguchi...Thornton...Jenks... Riske...Uribe, etc.

KW has done a great job, and you also have to remember that other GM's would be mystified why a GM coming off a WS win would want to trade one of his aces. It looks like Billy Beane succeeded in dumping Hudson and Mulder before they went south, but Zito isn't the same pitcher either.

I guess the moral of the story is you have to keep replenishing your system with pitchers in the draft and get really lucky or shrewd w/ your acquisitions, and the Sox definitely have with Contreras, Loiaza, Jenks and Thornton, and Marte before that.

Likewise, hand the Twins some credit for getting Liriano, Santana and Garza for well below their current values...and even Bonser, who has a nice arm.

harwar
08-19-2006, 07:41 AM
Last night's game seemed to be played on two different levels. The twins were all fired up and going full tilt boogie in a playoff game and the White Sox were feeling their way through a spring training game.
It could be worse,as detroit seems to be lagging a bit and bostons' pitching staff is a joke.

Madvora
08-19-2006, 08:22 AM
Looking at this team lately, I'd be really worried about us in the playoffs. I could never see a team like this winning a World Series...
On the other hand...
They look like a totally different team than the first half. Enough to where you forget how good they were in the first half. Still their pitching was below the high standard it should have been at, but they were almost unbeatable then.

What the hell happened? It's the same guys!

Grzegorz
08-19-2006, 08:28 AM
Looking at this team lately, I'd be really worried about us in the playoffs. I could never see a team like this winning a World Series...
On the other hand...

Like Lip says, this team has dual personalities. Remember last year's collapse?

Everyone was running around comparing the 2005 White Sox to the '64 Phillies.

I really have no idea what to expect but the pitching is some much of a concern to me that I am willing to see some deals made in the off-season.

The White Sox have to build up their pitching stock in the minors and get these arms ready for the future.

That said bring on the Twins; lets salvage the last two.

alohafri
08-19-2006, 08:53 AM
are u kidding me???????????

Besides Santana and Liriano who is hurt Ill take every position player from the sox...eh maybe not aj over mauer but come on Minnesota is not on our level

Yet they continue to hand us our hats...

alohafri
08-19-2006, 08:57 AM
Exactly. Neither is Neal Cotts, tonight's designated scapegoat..

He might not be "trying" to lose, but when is the last time he left inherited runners stranded? Neal needs to replace Cliff Pollitte in mop up duty.

SOXSINCE'70
08-19-2006, 08:58 AM
Just a crappy,crappy game.:angry: :angry:

wassagstdu
08-19-2006, 08:58 AM
I mean a tirade in the locker room akin to Wiliams' turning the food tables over.

I mean getting in people's faces and threatening benchings if guys don't start hustling, using their head and excuting the small things that made the team champions.
You can do things like that with a bunch of cast-offs and underperformers you are trying to mold into a team, but how can you do that with the exalted "World Series Champions"?

As for "wanting it more," you just have to watch the games to see that. Doesn't mean the Sox don't want it, only that the Twins (and the Royals, and fill in the blank) want it more. After all, the Sox can't wait to get back to fondling their shiny new rings.

.

alohafri
08-19-2006, 09:00 AM
Uribe has been hot-dogging it at SS too much since the All-Star break, but that's the only effort issue I have with the team.

Cintron has been no prize with the glove as of late, but Uribe has to sit until he realizes he isn't the only player on the team. What was with calling Crede off of a pop up that was CLEARLY Crede's play?

samram
08-19-2006, 09:01 AM
He might not be "trying" to lose, but when is the last time he left inherited runners stranded? Neal needs to replace Cliff Pollitte in mop up duty.

He is the mop up guy, but he needs to be used against tough lefties here and there when they're behind. The league has figured him out and he hasn't adjusted. It's not for lack of effort.

canon123
08-19-2006, 09:06 AM
sox are still one game left, remember how bad sox were in aug/sept in 2005. boston is out. minn has a tough schedule. we will make the payoffs then anything can happen. we are not playing good. its all pitching, lets hope it comes around:supernana:

SOXSINCE'70
08-19-2006, 09:11 AM
I'm beginning to feel like I did in 1984 when the Sox seemed to have the attitude that they were so good they could turn it on anytime, but then they never did.

This crap with giving back the runs the offense gets a half inning later reminds me of the Jerry Manuel days.

As Ed McMahon might say, "You are correct,sir".:(: :(:

samram
08-19-2006, 09:11 AM
Looking at this team lately, I'd be really worried about us in the playoffs. I could never see a team like this winning a World Series...
On the other hand...
They look like a totally different team than the first half. Enough to where you forget how good they were in the first half. Still their pitching was below the high standard it should have been at, but they were almost unbeatable then.

What the hell happened? It's the same guys!

I actually feel ok about their WS chances if they make the playoffs, which I'm less confident about. The Sox are going to need three of these starting pitchers to be really good for the last month and a half and I don't know if that will happen. However, if they get to the postseason, I think the starters, knowing they have to make 3-4 good starts, will do that.

SOXSINCE'70
08-19-2006, 09:12 AM
sox are still one game left, remember how bad sox were in aug/sept in 2005. boston is out. minn has a tough schedule. we will make the payoffs then anything can happen. we are not playing good. its all pitching, lets hope it comes around:supernana:

It's great to be an optimist,but the way Radke and Santana
have pitched at home,this Sox fan remains a pessimist.:angry: :angry:

Hitmen77
08-19-2006, 10:07 AM
Damn it, Sox! And each game this series will get progressively harder for our offense. I hate watching the Sox play at the ****ing Metrodome.

Man, if the Sox don't catch Detroit, I hope they are able to take a 4 game lead over the Twinkies going into the final weekend of the season. If not, that might be one unpleasant weekend.

greenpeach
08-19-2006, 10:10 AM
I don't recall seeing the Sox sleepwalk through a big game since, oh, 2004. They usually sleepwalk against crap opponents, which the Twins are not. I don't know what's going on with this team.

I don't think it's so much sleepwalking, I think the effort is there. The biggest difference between this year & last is the pitching. Period. Our ERA is a full run higher than last year. It doesn't take Bill James to analyze why the Sox are so inconsistent. Hitting & even defense come & go, but pitching needs to remain a constant if you're going to contend for a division title. Our staff has let down the rest of the team this year.

WSox597
08-19-2006, 10:40 AM
Big game pitcher lets the team down again.


And perhaps Ozzie sees something in Cotts that we are all missing? Nah.

I couldn't believe walking somebody to get to Morneau, and the pitcher is Cotts. What was Ozzie thinking there?

jdieter
08-19-2006, 11:01 AM
I don't think it's so much sleepwalking, I think the effort is there. The biggest difference between this year & last is the pitching. Period. Our ERA is a full run higher than last year. It doesn't take Bill James to analyze why the Sox are so inconsistent. Hitting & even defense come & go, but pitching needs to remain a constant if you're going to contend for a division title. Our staff has let down the rest of the team this year.

You're correct about the pitching, way too many games the starters have given up 5-6 runs by the 5-6th innings. Another problem is over 160 ko's between our 1 & 2 hitters, they're not setting the table enough for 3-4-5.

robiwho
08-19-2006, 11:07 AM
This was one of those games where I was happy that we had dinner plans so I couldn't watch. I still got to listen to the last couple innings on the way home -- lucky me.

Pasqua's Posers
08-19-2006, 11:10 AM
Bottom line: Garcia needs to go. I'm so sick of his half-*** attitude when he's on the mound. Big game pitcher? Hey Freddy, THEY ARE ALL BIG GAMES FROM HERE ON OUT.

Let's get a win today and pray for tomorrow...:angry:

Lip Man 1
08-19-2006, 02:17 PM
Wassag:

You do that because it's the LAST thing a World Series Champion expects. THAT's the way you get their attention after 121 games of a very long season.

Lip

caulfield12
08-19-2006, 03:55 PM
Imagine if walking Grudz to get to Sweeney has backfired on us. Then things would be even more tense around here...

buehrle4cy05
08-19-2006, 05:45 PM
Well, I'm back from the Humpdome. It's a long trip up there and back from Mankato. Actually, kind of like Chicagoans going up to Milwaukee for a game.

I got to say hello to Buehrle4Cy05 during batting practice. Other than that, not too much fun. It's a depressing place to watch baseball on a good night.

Sadly, BP was the highlight of my night, too. It was nice to meet a WSI member at a game, never done that before. Before that, Thome and Gload hit some bombs into the upper deck that were impressive...but that was about it.