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View Full Version : Joe Sheehan Bias example #328432


Mr. White Sox
08-15-2006, 03:00 AM
Stathead's take on AL MVP: (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5420)

The odd thing here is, when you look at stathead numbers like WARP1 and VORP, Dye is right in the thick of things with the rest of those candidates. Oddly, Sheehan has omitted Dye (and Thome) from even a mention in his column.

Chisox003
08-15-2006, 04:19 AM
He's a jag, whatever, the only time I read his bull **** is when it's posted here. It's so clear he hates the White Sox it's beyond ridiculous.

2 Indians?? THEY'RE IN 4th PLACE AND 20 GAMES UNDER .500!!!! Hafner you can make an argument for, but Sizemore? Ahead of Dye, Thome and Crede?

**** him and the MVP award. The MLB can take its completely biased individual awards and shove them, we'll get the only one that matters, and coincidently, the only one we can control.

SoxFanPrope
08-15-2006, 08:22 AM
I'm not a stathead, so what the hell does WARP and VORP mean?

Chez
08-15-2006, 09:02 AM
I'm not a stathead, so what the hell does WARP and VORP mean?

WARP and VORP are characters in a Dr. Suess book. :wink:

FloridaSox
08-15-2006, 09:31 AM
Joe's a diehard Yankee fan and, of course, is for Jeter. We are diehard Sox fans and, of course, favor Thome and Dye.

Everybody roots for their own team. What's new.

eriqjaffe
08-15-2006, 09:36 AM
I'm not a stathead, so what the hell does WARP and VORP mean?WARP (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/glossary/index.php?mode=viewstat&stat=193) = "Wins Over Replacement Player"
VORP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VORP) = "Value Over Replacement Player"

Tragg
08-15-2006, 06:00 PM
Professionally, these guys spend much time apologizing for the teams for which a SABRE/moneyball/beane-progeny is the GM.
Christina Kahlr's opus on the genius of Paul DePodesta was classic; but the greatest piece was the won I think Will somethin wrote after the Sox won the WS in which he explained why the Sox champinionship should not taint the utility of the sabremetric/moneyball theology (although he feared it might). They also wrote an entire book devoted to Theo Epsten, the only sabre GM to win anything (sheerly coincidental that he had easily the second largest payroll in baseball that year).

FedEx227
08-15-2006, 06:12 PM
Okay so let me get this straight:

Travis Hafner... no argument. Even from a non-stathead perspective hes having a monster, monster season.

However. Vernon Wells has a VORP lower then Thome and is not playing for a contender.

Even more David Ortiz has a VORP only slightly above Jermaine Dye, yet JD doesn't get any mention.

Ugh. I swear BP, I like some of their stuff but they are just too stubborn and pompous. Look no further then their latest book: Baseball by the Numbers: Why Everything you know about the game is WRONG (aka only we are right, everyone else is stupid)

fquaye149
08-15-2006, 06:31 PM
Stathead's take on AL MVP: (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5420)

The odd thing here is, when you look at stathead numbers like WARP1 and VORP, Dye is right in the thick of things with the rest of those candidates. Oddly, Sheehan has omitted Dye (and Thome) from even a mention in his column.\

He even specifically mentions them as non-mvp candidates saying "the white sox and A's will both make the postseason and lack MVP candidates."

Everyone else's rankings have Dye and Thome in the top 5

whoyacrappin?

buehrle4cy05
08-15-2006, 06:34 PM
Grady Sizemore? What's the Indians record? That's a stat, idiot.

Joe Sheehan, like all the other dopes at BP, is an asshat who probably hasn't watched a ****ing game in a long time.

ilsox7
08-15-2006, 06:36 PM
Grady Sizemore? What's the Indians record? That's a stat, idiot.

Joe Sheehan, like all the other dopes at BP, is an asshat who probably hasn't watched a ****ing game in a long time.
You give him too much credit. According to my sources, he's never seen an actual baseball game being played.

Sox-o-matic
08-15-2006, 08:01 PM
I love how none of these turds pay attention to runs scored and runs batted in, the two offensive stats that mean more than any other.

Sox-o-matic
08-15-2006, 08:05 PM
By the way, did any of you know that according to the all important stat RaCPBSA (random cherry-picked bull**** analysis) Mark Loretta and Mike Lowell are tied for most fan friendly ballplayer?

DSpivack
08-16-2006, 12:54 AM
I love how none of these turds pay attention to runs scored and runs batted in, the two offensive stats that mean more than any other.
Some statistics are valid, others are not, and some analysts are dumbasses. That said, one shouldn't throw out using stats just because some ass clown named Joe Sheehan uses them. Why is RBI a great stat? It's dependent on there being a guy on base in front of you. Say a Royal batted .300 and a Yankee .250, yet the Yankee gets many opportunities with a better offense than does the Royal. That doesn't make the Yankee a better hitter, he just has more chances. Same goes for runs. There is no end all be all stat, but I'd say batting average and on base percentage are a much better stat than runs and RBIs, since it's not dependent on anyone else.

SoxFanPrope
08-16-2006, 03:03 AM
WARP (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/glossary/index.php?mode=viewstat&stat=193) = "Wins Over Replacement Player"
VORP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VORP) = "Value Over Replacement Player"
So....meaningless numbers right?

zmz723
08-16-2006, 11:06 AM
I see espn has gotten to him. Jonathon Papelblow has 5 blown saves yet "is right in the thick of it" for the mvp race.

what a joke

Mr. White Sox
08-16-2006, 05:09 PM
I see espn has gotten to him. Jonathon Papelblow has 5 blown saves yet "is right in the thick of it" for the mvp race.

what a joke

Guys I'd take over Papelbon (off the top of my head, salary nonwithstanding):
-Joe Nathan
-Mariano Rivera
-B.J. Ryan
-Huston Street

fquaye149
08-16-2006, 06:24 PM
So....meaningless numbers right?

short answer: no

long answer: not reeeeally...

sullythered
08-16-2006, 08:29 PM
I really gotta stop looking at these BP threads. That stathead crap is just that, crap. It doesn't mean anything at all. Zero. As I've said many times before. Baseball is played by people. People equal unforseeable variables. That's why it's great. That's why we won last year. That's why they should just close down BP, or relegate themselves to programming baseball video games, where variables aren't reality.

Sox-o-matic
08-17-2006, 04:43 AM
Some statistics are valid, others are not, and some analysts are dumbasses. That said, one shouldn't throw out using stats just because some ass clown named Joe Sheehan uses them. Why is RBI a great stat? It's dependent on there being a guy on base in front of you. Say a Royal batted .300 and a Yankee .250, yet the Yankee gets many opportunities with a better offense than does the Royal. That doesn't make the Yankee a better hitter, he just has more chances. Same goes for runs. There is no end all be all stat, but I'd say batting average and on base percentage are a much better stat than runs and RBIs, since it's not dependent on anyone else.

I guess we'll have to disagree, but to me the most valuable player is the one scoring and/or driving in the most runs. Chances don't mean anything, results do. If someone hits .330/35/90 with a .400 OBP with nobody on base, so what? He isn't as valuable as the guy hitting .280/30/130 with a .370 OBP because that guy is doing more to help his team win.

Sox It To Em
08-17-2006, 08:53 AM
I guess we'll have to disagree, but to me the most valuable player is the one scoring and/or driving in the most runs. Chances don't mean anything, results do. If someone hits .330/35/90 with a .400 OBP with nobody on base, so what? He isn't as valuable as the guy hitting .280/30/130 with a .370 OBP because that guy is doing more to help his team win.

Jason Giambi is a better player than Jermaine Dye this year?

You are not showing favor towards the actual player but rather the offense surrounding him. Player 1 is a superior player, he just does not receive as many oppurtunities to knock in runners as player 2 because he has a less potent offense to work with. They have no control over whether or not guys are on base when they step up to the plate. Stick the two players in the same lineup and see what happens. RBI can be a vague indicator of a hitter's performance, but it is by no means a great measure of it.