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Viva Medias B's
08-14-2006, 10:46 PM
Mike Schmidt is dominating the "Best Phillie Ever" poll at this hour.

Because I will be in Springfield for the Illinois State Fair (http://www.agr.state.il.us/isf/index.php) tomorrow, I am posting the Pittsburgh Pirates poll here now. It will be the usual 24-hour poll. In another thread, I will post the Texas Rangers poll which will be a 48-hour poll because I'll be hitting the road early Wednesday morning back to Chicagoland.

Frontman
08-14-2006, 10:49 PM
How can you leave off Barry Bonds?

gbergman
08-14-2006, 10:53 PM
Honus Wagner, and Clemente should split this award.

FedEx227
08-14-2006, 10:59 PM
Kinda hard to vote for anybody besides RC

monkeypants
08-14-2006, 11:19 PM
Honus Wagner, and Clemente should split this award.

I agree.

But since that's not a choice I'll have to side with Clemente. Wagner was in the inaugural HOF class and is considered one of the greatest shortstops of all time. But Clemente was one of the greatest all-around players and reached 3,000 hits in a pitcher's era.

Either way, it's a coin flip.

DSpivack
08-14-2006, 11:24 PM
I agree.

But since that's not a choice I'll have to side with Clemente. Wagner was in the inaugural HOF class and is considered one of the greatest shortstops of all time. But Clemente was one of the greatest all-around players and reached 3,000 hits in a pitcher's era.

Either way, it's a coin flip.

Agreed. But as great a player and man Clemente was, I'm giving an edge to Wagner. Can't go wrong with Stargell or Kiner, either.

Question: Looking at his numbers, why is Bill Mazeroski in the HOF? Besides hitting one of (if not the) the greatest HRs in the history of baseball.

FedEx227
08-14-2006, 11:26 PM
When you look at these options you see what a great franchise the Pirates actually are. 4 of the 5 guys in here may be the top 50 of all-time.

asindc
08-14-2006, 11:35 PM
I'll defer to those who vote for Wagner, but if anyone other then Clemente wins outside of that, this board should be embarassed.

Save McCuddy's
08-14-2006, 11:36 PM
Gotta go with Honus. Clemente is a classic, but Honus dominated the game in his era.

Tragg
08-14-2006, 11:45 PM
When you look at these options you see what a great franchise the Pirates actually are. 4 of the 5 guys in here may be the top 50 of all-time.
Were.
It came to a sudden halt after the 1970s (bonds, okay, but they didn't keep him).

Brian26
08-15-2006, 12:28 AM
I never saw Clemente play, but he deserves the award. I gave Pops Stargell a vote because he played in the first World Series I really vividly remember watching ('79).

buehrle4cy05
08-15-2006, 12:34 AM
As the line goes in W.P. Kinsella's "Searching for January", "Nobody plays the game like Clemente."

"Searching for January" is easily my favorite baseball short story. It's in The Dixon Cornbelt League, a compilation of short stories by Kinsella. I highly recommend it.

PKalltheway
08-15-2006, 01:05 AM
I voted for Roberto Clemente. One of the best players in his era, and he absolutely punished one of the best pitching staffs of all time, the 1971 Orioles, in the World Series. It was also posted earlier in this thread that he got 3,000 hits in a pitcher's era as well. Willie Stargell and Honus Wagner were great too, and an argument can be made as to why they would deseve "best Pirate" too. I think Clemente is head and shoulders above the rest, though.

SOXintheBURGH
08-15-2006, 02:30 AM
http://k41.pbase.com/u/tremont/large/170526.clemenskylnopt.jpg

eastchicagosoxfan
08-15-2006, 05:46 AM
Honus Wagner, hands down in my opinion. Arguments have been made to name Wagner the greatest player of all time. Wagner played in the Dead Ball era, which certainly favored pitchers, and was a tremendous shortstop to boot.

Grzegorz
08-15-2006, 05:57 AM
I know there is a lot of history with some of these teams so it is hard to limit who makes the cut. But...

This list could include the Waner brothers & Arky Vaughn.

Clemente; I went with my heart.

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2006, 07:58 AM
Bill Mazeroski in the HOF is embarrassing. His career OPS+ is 84 and his career OPS is .667. Dreadful.

I'll take Wagner.

Chez
08-15-2006, 08:56 AM
Bill Mazeroski in the HOF is embarrassing. His career OPS+ is 84 and his career OPS is .667. Dreadful.



"Embarrassing?" You must have never seen Maz play second base. One of the best, if not the best, defensive second basemen of all time. Is it also "embarrassing" to have Brooks Robinson in the HOF?

NonetheLoaiza
08-15-2006, 11:18 AM
Clemente. Wagner close behind in my opinion. I just respect the kind of person Clemente was both on and off the field.

Chicken on the Hill Will was my mom's favorite Pirate, though.

Jurr
08-15-2006, 11:22 AM
I'm with the Honus Wagner contingent. The man helped put baseball on the map, he was a great hitter, and was a pretty decent manager, from what I've read.

slobes
08-15-2006, 11:38 AM
Clemente was the quintessential 5 tool player. I'll go with him.

viagracat
08-15-2006, 11:52 AM
I have said for a long time that Clemente was the best player I've ever seen in the 40-some years I've watched baseball. He was THE five-tool player; and I will never forget his deadly cannon for an arm. He could do it all.

Chip Z'nuff
08-15-2006, 12:02 PM
Toss up between Blue Beard and Long John Silver

SOXintheBURGH
08-15-2006, 12:04 PM
I'm with the Honus Wagner contingent. The man helped put baseball on the map, he was a great hitter, and was a pretty decent manager, from what I've read.

Plus, he was born in Carnegie.

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2006, 12:37 PM
"Embarrassing?" You must have never seen Maz play second base. One of the best, if not the best, defensive second basemen of all time. Is it also "embarrassing" to have Brooks Robinson in the HOF?
That's nice. But if you're in the HOF you better have at least average ability at the plate.

TornLabrum
08-15-2006, 12:39 PM
Toss up between Blue Beard and Long John Silver

That's Black Beard.

Chip Z'nuff
08-15-2006, 12:48 PM
That's Black Beard. Arrr, what do you mean thar is no blue beard? A pence for an old man o'de sea? Ahoy, he copied o'er 1000 dvds in one minute Aye, me parrot concurs.

You too can talk like a pirate
http://www.talklikeapirateday.com/translate/index.php

batmanZoSo
08-15-2006, 12:54 PM
Arrr, what do you mean thar is no blue beard? A pence for an old man o'de sea?

You too can talk like a pirate
http://www.talklikeapirateday.com/translate/index.php

Good stuff.

Railsplitter
08-15-2006, 01:10 PM
Pops gets his props!

On the mound, El Roy Face. His bullpen prowess led to the save as an official stat.

TornLabrum
08-15-2006, 01:11 PM
Arrr, what do you mean thar is no blue beard? A pence for an old man o'de sea? Ahoy, he copied o'er 1000 dvds in one minute Aye, me parrot concurs.

You too can talk like a pirate
http://www.talklikeapirateday.com/translate/index.php

Blue Beard wasn't a pirate. He was a character in a fairy tale who was married 7 times, whose wives all disappeared.

Chip Z'nuff
08-15-2006, 01:16 PM
Blue Beard wasn't a pirate. He was a character in a fairy tale who was married 7 times, whose wives all disappeared.
avast matey I be needin to change my arr-ticle

TDog
08-15-2006, 01:47 PM
Honus Wagner, and Clemente should split this award.

I was thinking the same thing.

I would probably have to go with Wagner, though it would be heartbreaking not to vote for Clemente. Some Marlin or Devil Ray will end up a hero, but Clemente or Wagner won't.

MeteorsSox4367
08-15-2006, 02:44 PM
Clemente, although I think Ed Ott is being slighted. Even though I was five when it happened, I remember my mom listening to the radio the day Clemente died. If anyone cares, the new book that's out regarding the '71 Pirates is a really good read.

I'd also like to show some love for Stargell, one of my favorite players as a kid.

As for why Maz is in the HOF, it's because he deserves it. Other than the '85 playoffs against LA, I don't remember Ozzie Smith tearing it up with the bat, but the man was a brilliant defender.

Maz = Worthy HOFer.

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2006, 03:29 PM
Clemente, although I think Ed Ott is being slighted. Even though I was five when it happened, I remember my mom listening to the radio the day Clemente died. If anyone cares, the new book that's out regarding the '71 Pirates is a really good read.

I'd also like to show some love for Stargell, one of my favorite players as a kid.

As for why Maz is in the HOF, it's because he deserves it. Other than the '85 playoffs against LA, I don't remember Ozzie Smith tearing it up with the bat, but the man was a brilliant defender.

Maz = Worthy HOFer.
Based on what? With the bat he was wellllll below average, and no amount of good defense could make up for that.

Ozzie Smith is in the HOF because he did backflips.

ode to veeck
08-15-2006, 03:36 PM
Clemente had the best arm in the history of baseball

DoItForDanPasqua
08-15-2006, 03:43 PM
Wagner and Clemente both have outstanding batting averages, but Wagner's is higher and was supposed to have been an outstanding shortstop. I have to go with the Flying Dutchman.

Railsplitter
08-15-2006, 06:19 PM
Toss up between Blue Beard and Long John Silver

Big "P" not small "p"

fquaye149
08-15-2006, 06:36 PM
i have to give the dutchman props...

but Clemente meant so much to the game, and just a damned great person.

oh and not too bad a player either

fquaye149
08-15-2006, 06:38 PM
Question: Looking at his numbers, why is Bill Mazeroski in the HOF? Besides hitting one of (if not the) the greatest HRs in the history of baseball.

He was outstanding in the field.

But the HR probably helped his case a lot.

He's one of prime examples of people who maybe should not be in the hall by statheads. Johnny Evers is another example, iirc

fquaye149
08-15-2006, 06:42 PM
Based on what? With the bat he was wellllll below average, and no amount of good defense could make up for that.

Ozzie Smith is in the HOF because he did backflips.

When did the HOF become defined as the best hitters of all time?

You can come with all the defense metrics you want and prove that no defense can make up for a lack of offense, but these are all your definitions of a HOFer

Mazeroski and Smith were famous and heroes to many because of the way they played defense.

It's too bad you disagree, because they're in the HOF and no amount of bitching by you can oust them, just as no amount of bitching on my part will get Gary Carter out of there.

Too bad, so sad.