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caulfield12
08-12-2006, 09:23 AM
Making the the assumption (a big one I know) that Pods is gone after this season and that he's replaced by Fields/Sweeney/Owens (another big assumption), it would force us to trade Uribe to get a capable leadoff hitter at that position

I really wish we could have figured out a way to get Hanley Ramirez, but that ship has already sailed.

There are not a lot of options at the minor league level that are high OBP/high SB players and legit prospects.

These are the three best I could come up with...

Albero Callaspo (Diamondbacks)...blocked by Stephen Drew at SS, has a lot of the characteristics we would be looking for

Erick Aybar (Angels)...my pick, blocked by Orlando Cabrera, good OBP and seems like he has the potential to be a 30-40 steals type of player

Brandon Wood (Angels)...more of a power hitter and high K guy, which is why I would prefer Aybar, both names came up due to the logjam that the Angels are facing at this position, both names were involved at different points in the Tejada discussion

Thoughts?

Bottom line, it's just not easy to find a player that can do what Pods can at the SS position, in the majors or minors. The best options in the majors I can think of would be Omar Vizquel (one year), Jimmy Rollins or Freddie Sanchez, and the Pirates aren't going to trade him.

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 10:22 AM
Making the the assumption (a big one I know) that Pods is gone after this season and that he's replaced by Fields/Sweeney/Owens (another big assumption), it would force us to trade Uribe to get a capable leadoff hitter at that position

I really wish we could have figured out a way to get Hanley Ramirez, but that ship has already sailed.

There are not a lot of options at the minor league level that are high OBP/high SB players and legit prospects.

These are the three best I could come up with...

Albero Callaspo (Diamondbacks)...blocked by Stephen Drew at SS, has a lot of the characteristics we would be looking for

Erick Aybar (Angels)...my pick, blocked by Orlando Cabrera, good OBP and seems like he has the potential to be a 30-40 steals type of player

Brandon Wood (Angels)...more of a power hitter and high K guy, which is why I would prefer Aybar, both names came up due to the logjam that the Angels are facing at this position, both names were involved at different points in the Tejada discussion

Thoughts?

Bottom line, it's just not easy to find a player that can do what Pods can at the SS position, in the majors or minors. The best options in the majors I can think of would be Omar Vizquel (one year), Jimmy Rollins or Freddie Sanchez, and the Pirates aren't going to trade him.Leadoff hitters are a scarce commodity. For all the blathering you hear from the Pods haters, there aren't more than a handful of better leadoff hitters in baseball, and you're not likely to get any of them.

If, as expected, the Sox trade away one of their starters, then packaging him with Uribe and maybe a prospect should be enough to bring a SS who's a substantial improvement over Uribe. I wouldn't be surprised if Tejada was available this winter. Omar Vizquel might also be available.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 12:28 PM
Would you be willing to trade away at least two of the following (Sweeney/Fields/Broadway) along with Garcia to get Tejada back in return?

It would definitely be a gutsy move, but it would leave our farm system decimated. Of course, the Yankees manage to bring up a few select players every year (a Cabrera or Cano here, a Phillip Hughes next year) to supplement their payroll, so we can do it too.

soltrain21
08-12-2006, 12:39 PM
I would give up Uribe/Garcia/Broadway for Tejada in a second.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 12:46 PM
I think you're going to have to add Sweeney to the "pot" in that case.

They have Mora at 3B, so they really don't need Fields, although they could also deal Mora as well in the offseason and commit fully to rebuilding, which doesn't sound like Angelos.

I can't believe they turned down packages that included Oswalt, Everett and maybe even Lidge as one of the variables.

I guess Lidge isn't quite as necessary with a cheap Ray in place as closer, but Oswalt alone would get it done for most sensible GM's.

The Angels' deal was Santana and SS prospect Erick Aybar and the Orioles still wanted another prospect. That's too much.

soxruleEP
08-12-2006, 01:34 PM
Would you be willing to trade away at least two of the following (Sweeney/Fields/Broadway) along with Garcia to get Tejada back in return?

YES!

Timmy D's
08-12-2006, 01:39 PM
Not that I would want him here or anything, but I hear NY is willing to sell A-Rod for beer money, and a pack of smokes right now, and assure any interested partys he will re adapt to SS.

nedlug
08-12-2006, 01:45 PM
Not that I would want him here or anything, but I hear NY is willing to sell A-Rod for beer money, and a pack of smokes right now, and assure any interested partys he will re adapt to SS.
You wouldn't want him here? I think I would... for the right price, of course.

Timmy D's
08-12-2006, 01:47 PM
You wouldn't want him here? I think I would... for the right price, of course.

Ohh, deep down, yes of course, but I just cant bring myself to publicly admit that yet, lol.:rolleyes:

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-12-2006, 03:34 PM
I sure do want E-Rod and his 19 Errors this season...

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 04:17 PM
Just like Contreras, A-Rod would be fine away from NY.

cws05champ
08-12-2006, 04:38 PM
Julio Lugo is a FA after this year...he would look pretty good at SS and lead-off spot IMHO.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 04:41 PM
But do we really want a character-issue player like that on this team?

We already had Belle, Phillips and Wil Cordero.

And who are we going to trade Uribe to?

DeadMoney
08-12-2006, 04:59 PM
Julio Lugo is a FA after this year...he would look pretty good at SS and lead-off spot IMHO.

LA will have an option on him, but probably won't pick it up because their paying so much for Furcal. And I agree, he'd be a solid choice for lead off/SS for this team. If nothing is available, Cintron would also be okay, but I'd like to attempt to pick up Lugo for that spot.

getonbckthr
08-12-2006, 05:08 PM
http://tampabay.devilrays.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_408307.jpg
Can I replace Scotty? I'm younger, faster and stronger. Oh ya I catch the ball most of the time. Sure I won't bring Lisa Dergan with me but hey i'm not perfect. I don't play SS but maybe Josh can.

FedEx227
08-12-2006, 05:39 PM
http://tampabay.devilrays.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_408307.jpg
Can I replace Scotty? I'm younger, faster and stronger. Oh ya I catch the ball most of the time. Sure I won't bring Lisa Dergan with me but hey i'm not perfect. I don't play SS but maybe Josh can.

I like the way you think!

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 06:49 PM
http://tampabay.devilrays.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_408307.jpg
Can I replace Scotty? I'm younger, faster and stronger. Oh ya I catch the ball most of the time. Sure I won't bring Lisa Dergan with me but hey i'm not perfect. I don't play SS but maybe Josh can.Sure. Just get Friedman to agree to trade away a young, cheap leadoff hitter. What's that??? He laughed until his beer came out of his nose???

Tragg
08-12-2006, 07:44 PM
What's the objection to Uribe (other than he's getting somewhat expensive)? He's a better hitter and defender than Cintron.

I agree with #2 on lead-off hitters...they aren't easy to find and you certainly can't pencil in a rookie. Pods isn't expensive. But an upgrade would be great.

Lugo is a good hitter. His D was pretty bad in Houston...I presume it's improved, but I haven't seen him play. But we need top-notch D at short.

I'll pass on further Tejada commentary, except to say that Maggs' career OPS is 50 points higher than is Tejada's.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 07:49 PM
Who is more in the doghouse right now, Pods or Uribe? I just don't Pods is going to be able to recapture what he had in the first half of the 2005 season ever again...so the question is can we live with what we have? Speed players and catchers don't have great track records in their 30's.

Obviously it would be great to get Carl Crawford, but I see KW getting someone like Jason Tyner and throwing it into open competition with Sweeney/Fields/Owens before he would make a trade that would cost us a ton...

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 07:52 PM
What's the objection to Uribe (other than he's getting somewhat expensive)? He's a better hitter and defender than Cintron.

I agree with #2 on lead-off hitters...they aren't easy to find and you certainly can't pencil in a rookie. Pods isn't expensive. But an upgrade would be great.

Lugo is a good hitter. His D was pretty bad in Houston...I presume it's improved, but I haven't seen him play. But we need top-notch D at short.

I'll pass on further Tejada commentary.I wouldn't agree Uribe is a better hitter than Cintron. They'll average about the same, but Cintron is a lot more consistent. And with more playing time, Cintron is likely to get better. With Uribe's goofy swing, he's always going to have problems.

Defensively, you'd have to give Uribe the edge, although he's been making a lot of mistakes that are just lack of concentration, so the difference isn't as large as it once was.

But if I was going to replace Uribe, it wouldn't be with Cintron. If you're not going to make a significant upgrade, don't mess with it at all.

Tragg
08-12-2006, 08:00 PM
I wouldn't agree Uribe is a better hitter than Cintron. They'll average about the same, but Cintron is a lot more consistent. And with more playing time, Cintron is likely to get better. With Uribe's goofy swing, he's always going to have problems.
Neither guy walks. Uribe has some power (certainly above average for a SS)...Cintron has zilch. That's the difference that I see.
Uribe's having a bad/goofy year, but his OPS is still better than Cintron's.
Uribe was a terrific defensive shortstop last year...I don't know what's going on this year (and since I don't get to see many of the games, I can't judge is overall defensive game).
I hate to sell low, but Uribe has some trade value. I'm with you in that we certainly need a better SS than Cintron, though - he's no answer.

As for improvements next year, I'd look to those 2 positions though....SS and an offensive position called lead-off hitter, wherever that person can play. I wouldn't force anything as we aren't weak.
And if we want to trade Fields, and I certainly hope we don't, then we should easily get an above average major leaguer for him, as the Red Sox did for Marte and the Braves got for Marte. Uribe would bring good return; we'd get something for Rob M; we'd get something for Pods (although I don't understand the animus against him)

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 08:17 PM
Neither guy walks. Uribe has some power (certainly above average for a SS)...Cintron has zilch. That's the difference that I see.
Uribe's having a bad/goofy year, but his OPS is still better than Cintron's.
Uribe was a terrific defensive shortstop last year...I don't know what's going on this year (and since I don't get to see many of the games, I can't judge is overall defensive game).
I hate to sell low, but Uribe has some trade value. I'm with you in that we certainly need a better SS than Cintron, though - he's no answer.For a bottom of the order hitter, I think I'd rather have the higher OBP than SLG. For a bottom of the order, I just want him to do two things:

1. If there's a rally going, don't screw it up. Just keep it going for the top of the order guys. If you make an out, make it a productive out. Bunting ability is a must.

2. If there's no rally going, get on base to start one.

Based on those two criteria, I'd rather have Cintron. Plus, even at the same average, Cintron is a lot more consistent.

soxwon
08-12-2006, 09:00 PM
I will bank on us getting tejada next year.
we have had the inside track for years now.
I see us dealing vazquez, and a few top prospects.
Also its possible Buehrle goes
And zito becomes a Soxer.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 09:12 PM
There's no way Baltimore would take Vazquez if they turned down Erwin Santana, who's much cheaper and definitely has more upside than a 29 or 30 year old with lots of innings behind him and a .500 career record.

They also turned down a deal involving Oswalt and Adam Everett.

You can't compare Vazquez to either one of those guys.

Buehrle will be here at least until the trade deadline next year, you can book it.

BadBobbyJenks
08-12-2006, 09:15 PM
Arod doesnt want to win a championship:rolleyes:

BadBobbyJenks
08-12-2006, 09:16 PM
I will bank on us getting tejada next year.
we have had the inside track for years now.
I see us dealing vazquez, and a few top prospects.
Also its possible Buehrle goes
And zito becomes a Soxer.


how much we betting?

soxwon
08-12-2006, 10:10 PM
There's no way Baltimore would take Vazquez if they turned down Erwin Santana, who's much cheaper and definitely has more upside than a 29 or 30 year old with lots of innings behind him and a .500 career record.

They also turned down a deal involving Oswalt and Adam Everett.

You can't compare Vazquez to either one of those guys.

Buehrle will be here at least until the trade deadline next year, you can book it.

tejada i believe is a free agent?
or am i wrong?

DumpJerry
08-12-2006, 10:30 PM
I'm so glad none of you is Kenny Williams.
The title of this thread is confusing because the person who create the thread talks about Pods in his initial posting.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 10:37 PM
$12 million in 2007, $13 million in 2008 and 2009

Beautox
08-12-2006, 11:42 PM
Who is more in the doghouse right now, Pods or Uribe? I just don't Pods is going to be able to recapture what he had in the first half of the 2005 season ever again...so the question is can we live with what we have? Speed players and catchers don't have great track records in their 30's.

Obviously it would be great to get Carl Crawford, but I see KW getting someone like Jason Tyner and throwing it into open competition with Sweeney/Fields/Owens before he would make a trade that would cost us a ton...

I agree, its pretty aparent Podsednik has lost a step in the OF, and on the basepaths at well. I was at the game today, and he took a horrible read on a ball, and nearly didn't make the play.

As far as Carl Crawford, with Dukes getting the boot from the d-rays, and Young knocking on the door and Upton most likely moving to LF, he will be moved. Their OF will consist of Upton(LF) Baldelli(CF) Young (RF), Crawford doesn't fit, but at the same time he doesn't fit with the White Sox, and KW's philosphy.

I find it funny you keep throwing Owens name around in threads, have you looked at his stats down at Charlotte (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Jerry%20Owens&pos=OF&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=435539)? they look pretty pedestrian. Sweeney's power is just now starting to devlop and all though he has a beautiful swing, hes only 21 and another season down at AAA will do him alot of good. Which brings me up to Fields, as stated by the FO here (http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2006/8/12/14292/4282), this winter he will be seeing time out in LF, which means three things; 1.) Joe Crede is going to get locked up long term, 2.) Scott Podsednik is gone after this season 3.) Josh Fields will be our opening day '07 LF Book It!

So now with LF locked with Fields, we have to look to a new position to fufill our leadoff hitter Julio Lugo at SS seems like a perfect fit.

This is how i see our 07 roster.

SP
McCarthy
Vazquez
Garland
Buehrle
Contreras

BP
Jenks \
[/URL]MacDougal | The New Nasty Boys?
[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7212"] (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6666)Thornton /
Cotts
Logan
Tracey

C Pierzynski
1B Konerko
2B Iguchi
SS Lugo?
3B Crede
LF Fields
CF Anderson
RF Dye
DH Thome

Bench
Mackowiak
Cintron
Gload
Stewart/Alomar/Blanco
Someone not named Pablo, for OF, that can actually play CF.

chisoxfanatic
08-12-2006, 11:55 PM
I could get one of the shop teachers at my school to build a robot that has a 100% accuracy in fielding and tears the cover off the ball at the plate. :cool:

DickAllen72
08-13-2006, 12:28 AM
As far as Carl Crawford, with Dukes getting the boot from the d-rays, and Young knocking on the door and Upton most likely moving to LF, he will be moved. Their OF will consist of Upton(LF) Baldelli(CF) Young (RF), Crawford doesn't fit, but at the same time he doesn't fit with the White Sox, and KW's philosphy.

Why doesn't Crawford fit in with the Sox or KW?

I want Mags back
08-13-2006, 12:30 AM
Would you be willing to trade away at least two of the following (Sweeney/Fields/Broadway) along with Garcia to get Tejada back in return?


let me think about thsi for a second





yes

DSpivack
08-13-2006, 12:32 AM
Why doesn't Crawford fit in with the Sox or KW?

He'll probably cost a lot of money and/or in trade, and the guy gets on base less than Pods does, .350 this year which is about the same as Pods but career is just .330, not that good for a leadoff hitter. For comparison, Pods is .345 career, although just .335 in 2005. That and I don't think he's a big upgrade defensively over Pods. Don't know if he's a "chemistry" guy.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 12:57 AM
Owens is logical simply because he's in-house and there are only a handful of other candidates (amongst all MLB teams) in AA and AAA with more steals...obviously OBP is a also a big part of being a leadoff hitter, but Owens will go to Winter Ball again and I think this decision might wait until March (in terms of a trade), although they will have to offer or not offer arbitration to Pods well before that.

MacDougal's velocity is down about 3-4 MPH from where it used to be, but if he can control his fastball better at 92-94 and it still has the good movement, they'll obviously want him back and offer arbitration or sign a 2-3 year extension.

Not sure about Upton in LF, he's more valuable on the infield (has made some nice plays at 3B in the games I've watched)...has a very good arm, would hate to waste that in LF.

It's also going to take quite some time for them to determine whether Fields will be acceptable or not in LF...Arizona Fall League or Winter Ball.

I'm just not sure about Lugo...he's the flavor of the moment, but his past is checkered. That doesn't mean there haven't been worse incidents w/ players in the past, but it's gonna be a case where KW is out there with the due-diligence as he did with AJ before signing him, or Everett.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 01:01 AM
Acquiring Vernon Wells and moving Anderson to LF wouldn't be a horrible option either...it's always good to think of ways to upgrade our defense instead of standing pat or even worsening it, as putting Fields out there might do.

Or just let Sweeney/Owens/Fields/Anderson have at it (in LF, assuming we could acquire Wells) and the best man wins, or even a platoon situation.

Still have to find a leadoff hitter from SS though.

DSpivack
08-13-2006, 01:01 AM
Owens is logical simply because he's in-house and there are only a handful of other candidates (amongst all MLB teams) in AA and AAA with more steals...obviously OBP is a also a big part of being a leadoff hitter, but Owens will go to Winter Ball again and I think this decision might wait until March (in terms of a trade), although they will have to offer or not offer arbitration to Pods well before that.

I doubt he'll ever be a starting OF. He's 25, and is hitting just .264 this year w/ a .333 OBP in AAA.

DSpivack
08-13-2006, 01:02 AM
Acquiring Vernon Wells and moving Anderson to LF wouldn't be a horrible option either...it's always good to think of ways to upgrade our defense instead of standing pat or even worsening it, as putting Fields out there might do.

How are we supposed to just "acquire" Vernon Wells?

Sox-o-matic
08-13-2006, 01:06 AM
Sure. Just get Friedman to agree to trade away a young, cheap leadoff hitter. What's that??? He laughed until his beer came out of his nose???

Yeah, I think you're right. While I think they would normally make a trade for young pitching like McCarthy and a prospect, they just aren't doing it anytime soon. They sent Gathright packing to the Royals because he wasn't the answer, Damon Hollins hasn't shown enough, and Rocco Baldelli has been broken for a long time. I would imagine they'll bring up Young next year, but I still don't see Carl going anywhere (for now).

As far as replacements for Pods goes, I really don't like the choices that will probably be out there. Pierre has no arm, Clark is a AAAA player who had a great 2005 season, Dave Roberts is kind of going in the wrong direction IMO, and we really don't have any options in the minors. Maybe KW will stick with Pods after he hits .350 and steals 15 bases for us in the playoffs this year, or maybe not. But I think either way, Pablo needs to play some winter ball - and play exclusively in LF - in the offseason.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 01:44 AM
Ozuna's not a starting big league corner outfielder. Not after 100 games of Winter Ball and 30 Spring Training games. And isn't he older than Pods?

He's not even a starting SS or 2B.

You have to be able to put up 25 dingers or 50 steals to play LF. Or hit like Ichiro. And Pablo is none of those things.

He's a fine utility player and a good addition to the bench, nothing more.

Owens will get another year because he's still young in terms of baseball playing experience...

Beautox
08-13-2006, 01:59 AM
Why doesn't Crawford fit in with the Sox or KW?

Because KW, has said since the beginning of the year, that when someone from our system is a viable option hes going to bring them up, hes adopted the braves philosophy of having our farm system produce for the big league club. I know thats hard to believe seeing how hes traded away alot of our minor league system but in the past, but look at Anderson, Logan, Tracey, McCarthy, and Fields, along with Sweeney to be our future, amongst others.

Beautox
08-13-2006, 02:27 AM
Owens is logical simply because he's in-house and there are only a handful of other candidates (amongst all MLB teams) in AA and AAA with more steals...obviously OBP is a also a big part of being a leadoff hitter, but Owens will go to Winter Ball again and I think this decision might wait until March (in terms of a trade), although they will have to offer or not offer arbitration to Pods well before that.

MacDougal's velocity is down about 3-4 MPH from where it used to be, but if he can control his fastball better at 92-94 and it still has the good movement, they'll obviously want him back and offer arbitration or sign a 2-3 year extension.

Not sure about Upton in LF, he's more valuable on the infield (has made some nice plays at 3B in the games I've watched)...has a very good arm, would hate to waste that in LF.

It's also going to take quite some time for them to determine whether Fields will be acceptable or not in LF...Arizona Fall League or Winter Ball.

I'm just not sure about Lugo...he's the flavor of the moment, but his past is checkered. That doesn't mean there haven't been worse incidents w/ players in the past, but it's gonna be a case where KW is out there with the due-diligence as he did with AJ before signing him, or Everett.

Owens will be 26 at the start of the '07 season, like i said his stats down at AAA are pretty pedestrian. If were looking for a leadoff hitter for our future as well as our left fielder, I would hope KW would pursue Chris Denorfia (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Denorfia%20%20CF&pos=&sid=t494&t=p_pbp&pid=456121), he just got sent back down to AAA Louisville Bats(reds), to make room for Todd Hollandsworth. The reds have a log jam of OFers, and they already have their leadoff hitter in Freel. Denorfia started in CF for the AAA allstar game, can play all 3 OF positions incredibly well and is above average in CF, which would lead me to believe he could be GGer in LF. Hes their best defensive OF, and has the best strike zone discipline. Chris also has great character, hes been in their organization since 02, and has been nothing but class, from all the articles and interviews i've read about him. He just turned 26 on 7/15. Now what would it take to acquire him? my guess would be Freddy Garcia and maybe Harrell.

As i was saying i was at the game yesterday and MacDougal was sitting around 95-96, Also he under our control until '09, i believe, Thornton will be under our control until '09 also, and Jenks until 11, but i might be mistaken feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Fields is plenty athletic to play LF, if Carlos Lee can play LF, Josh Fields can play LF.

Agreed with regards to Lugo.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 07:13 AM
Aren't the Reds planning to unload Griffey or Dunn in the offseason?

Obviously they will keep Freel, but they've also dealt Kearns and Willy Mo Pena to make room in their outfield roster, wouldn't make sense for them to keep building around pitching and defense and then turn around and trade this kid.

And Hollandsworth is just a fill-in w/ MLB playoff experience to get them through the season.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 07:20 AM
Not sure, I know MacDougal will be arbitration eligible after this year. We will either have him through 2008 or 09, one of the two.

Looks like either 2009 or 2010 for Thornton.

Tragg
08-13-2006, 11:06 AM
It's going to be tough to fit the youngsters in because you can't cast Pods loose until you know one of the youngsters can not only hit but hit leadoff....there's nobody on the roster close to a leadoff hitter.
I guess we could trade Dye to open up room for a young player...that would be interesting as Dye will be coming off 2 great years and we would get top value for him - but I doubt anyone will produce what he's produced either.

Osuna's a joke at leadoff.
Vernon Wells...yea, he's a good player, but to get him we'd have to create a weakness somewhere and he wouldn't plug a current weakness. We can get by with marginal LF defense - especially if we can get some guy who can really get on base playing there.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 12:26 PM
Candidates with higher OBP than Pods...

Notice, I didn't say they would make good leadoff hitters, that's another issue altogether!

Not a chance...
Carlos Lee
Torii Hunter
Andruw Jones
Alphonso Soriano
Carl Crawford
Pat Burrell
Vernon Wells
Adam Dunn
Brian Giles

Interesting...
Raul Ibanez
Jim Edmonds (back in St. Louis???)
Luis Gonzalez (DBacks will probably let him go this offseason)
Gary Matthews, Jr. (especially if Wells goes to TEX)
Trot Nixon (too many injuries probably, but the type of player KW takes chances on)

Old White Sox style of doing business
Eric Byrnes
Mike Cameron
Emil Brown
Brady Clark
Dave Roberts (age?)
Frank Catalanotto
Reed Johnson

Eric Byrnes would be more of a Rowand style player and they eventually have to dump him for Chris Young...Cameron might be too old, and definitely not a leadoff hitter with all the K's. Same for Byrnes probably.

The names I like the most here are probably the two Blue Jays players, but neither are SB threats. I like Emil Brown a lot too, he's come into his own the last couple of years, doesn't cost much...kind of flies under the radar.

Ol' No. 2
08-13-2006, 12:34 PM
Yeah, I think you're right. While I think they would normally make a trade for young pitching like McCarthy and a prospect, they just aren't doing it anytime soon. They sent Gathright packing to the Royals because he wasn't the answer, Damon Hollins hasn't shown enough, and Rocco Baldelli has been broken for a long time. I would imagine they'll bring up Young next year, but I still don't see Carl going anywhere (for now).

As far as replacements for Pods goes, I really don't like the choices that will probably be out there. Pierre has no arm, Clark is a AAAA player who had a great 2005 season, Dave Roberts is kind of going in the wrong direction IMO, and we really don't have any options in the minors. Maybe KW will stick with Pods after he hits .350 and steals 15 bases for us in the playoffs this year, or maybe not. But I think either way, Pablo needs to play some winter ball - and play exclusively in LF - in the offseason.That's exactly the difficulty. Any dope can rant (a fact proven almost daily), but coming up with a better option that you could actually get is a bit harder. Good leadoff hitters don't grow on trees. For all his flaws, Pods is about average in OBP for leadoff hitters, and even in a down year he's 5th in the AL in SB.

Tragg
08-13-2006, 12:43 PM
A lot of those guys on your list aren't lead-off hitters anyway - including most on the "not a chance" list..
One thing about Podsednik...he's cheap and as we don't have an unlimited budget, cheap is good.
Vernon Wells may be reacing his prime, and his career year this year may be legit; but he still has a poor walk rate (an a career OBP of .327). And we'd create another weakness to get him.

Luis Gonzales is 80 years old, but he is a good walker.
Edmonds won't be cheap and is in obvious decline.
Ibanez is in his mid 30s and doesn't have the OBP for a leadoff hitter.
Gary Matthews - I wouldn't touch him; he's a premium price off of a career year. His career OBP is a woeful .337. On the other hand, I'd take a look at ...
Brad Wilkerson who is having a career bad year this year, but who is younger, coudl be acquired for far less (buying low) and has a solid career OBP. We got Pods off of a bad year; I'd take a look at this guy.

It's not an easy find; which to me means that at his price, Pods isn't that bad...keep him, bring up Owens or Sweeney and maybe one of them can take over in a year.

Ol' No. 2
08-13-2006, 12:51 PM
Candidates with higher OBP than Pods...

Notice, I didn't say they would make good leadoff hitters, that's another issue altogether!

Not a chance...
Carlos Lee
Torii Hunter
Andruw Jones
Alphonso Soriano
Carl Crawford
Pat Burrell
Vernon Wells
Adam Dunn
Brian Giles

Interesting...
Raul Ibanez
Jim Edmonds (back in St. Louis???)
Luis Gonzalez (DBacks will probably let him go this offseason)
Gary Matthews, Jr. (especially if Wells goes to TEX)
Trot Nixon (too many injuries probably, but the type of player KW takes chances on)

Old White Sox style of doing business
Eric Byrnes
Mike Cameron
Emil Brown
Brady Clark
Dave Roberts (age?)
Frank Catalanotto
Reed Johnson

Eric Byrnes would be more of a Rowand style player and they eventually have to dump him for Chris Young...Cameron might be too old, and definitely not a leadoff hitter with all the K's. Same for Byrnes probably.

The names I like the most here are probably the two Blue Jays players, but neither are SB threats. I like Emil Brown a lot too, he's come into his own the last couple of years, doesn't cost much...kind of flies under the radar.You pretty much made my point. Most of those guys have OBP only marginally higher than Pods, especially considering Pods' is depressed right now below his career average due to having a poor month. You're not going to sacrifice the SB for reaching base once more per month. Those that are good candidates are not going to be available.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 01:07 PM
Tragg, you're not buying into the whole Josh Fields LF 2007 campaign?

santo=dorf
08-13-2006, 01:16 PM
Leadoff hitters are a scarce commodity. For all the blathering you hear from the Pods haters, there aren't more than a handful of better leadoff hitters in baseball, and you're not likely to get any of them.

If, as expected, the Sox trade away one of their starters, then packaging him with Uribe and maybe a prospect should be enough to bring a SS who's a substantial improvement over Uribe. I wouldn't be surprised if Tejada was available this winter. Omar Vizquel might also be available.
You haven't responded to any of the facts posted in the other threads about Pods and "leadoff hitter" stats. You make a claim, back it up. I pointed out where Pods ranks in OBP%, CS%, and CS and it's nowhere near the "above average" claim you make about him. Now only a "handful of guys" are better than him? Whatever.

As for shortstop, I would love to have Tejada, and I'm opening up to the idea of getting Orlando Cabrera + cash just for the sake of not having to face him anymore. Omar Vizquel wouldn't be that bad of an option if the Giants are willing to not give up much for him. Their problem of course is finding an older shortstop to replace him. :tongue:

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 01:21 PM
Felix Fermin?

Angels have interesting situation with Kendrick, Brandon Wood and Erick Aybar all coming up at the same time, all middle infielders.

What they really need the most are corner infielders, as Kotchmann and McPherson didn't pan out exactly. Jury still out on Kendry Morales.

getonbckthr
08-13-2006, 01:40 PM
Felix Fermin?

Angels have interesting situation with Kendrick, Brandon Wood and Erick Aybar all coming up at the same time, all middle infielders.

What they really need the most are corner infielders, as Kotchmann and McPherson didn't pan out exactly. Jury still out on Kendry Morales.
Fields for Ervin Santana! Uribe, Sweeney, Vazquez, Haegar for Tejada! Garcia for Wily Tavaras and Wandy Rodriguez!:praying:

Ol' No. 2
08-13-2006, 07:30 PM
You haven't responded to any of the facts posted in the other threads about Pods and "leadoff hitter" stats. You make a claim, back it up. I pointed out where Pods ranks in OBP%, CS%, and CS and it's nowhere near the "above average" claim you make about him. Now only a "handful of guys" are better than him? Whatever.

As for shortstop, I would love to have Tejada, and I'm opening up to the idea of getting Orlando Cabrera + cash just for the sake of not having to face him anymore. Omar Vizquel wouldn't be that bad of an option if the Giants are willing to not give up much for him. Their problem of course is finding an older shortstop to replace him. :tongue:Still having reading difficulty?? Here's a tip: "above" has a "v" in it..."about" doesn't.

Lip Man 1
08-13-2006, 10:21 PM
Only one person may be availble this offseason who can upgrade both left field and leadoff....he's currently playing in Seattle and his contract expires after the 2007 season.

Lip

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 10:48 PM
Mike Morse or Jeremy Reed?

JK. It all comes down to the M's being competitive, and I think there are enough signs, as well as the relationship Ichiro has with the Japanese owner of the team.

Lip Man 1
08-13-2006, 11:51 PM
The talk is (reported in The Sporting News on two occasions) that Ichiro is pissed at the direction of the Mariners and is tired of playing for a loser.

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip

santo=dorf
08-14-2006, 10:58 PM
Fields for Ervin Santana! Uribe, Sweeney, Vazquez, Haegar for Tejada! Garcia for Wily Tavaras and Wandy Rodriguez!:praying:
Uhhhh, no.

Still having reading difficulty?? Here's a tip: "above" has a "v" in it..."about" doesn't.

Who cares about BA? For a leadoff hitter, OBP is much more important, and his is about average for leadoff hitters. K rate also doesn't matter much since they're usually replacing groundouts or other non-productive outs anyway. He's still 5th in the AL in SB, only one behind everyone's hearthrob, Carl Crawford. Compared with the four players ahead of him in SB, his OBP is about equal to Crawford and better than Figgins and Patterson.

Seriously, this Pods scapegoating is getting pretty absurd. No one ever said he was Rickey Henderson. But compared to the other leadoff hitters in the league in the categories that matter, he's above average.
You said it (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1282373&postcount=58)

Here's some help: http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0801882761.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0801882761/sr=8-1/qid=1155610614/ref=sr_1_1/103-9787511-1353445?ie=UTF8)

Craig Grebeck
08-14-2006, 11:55 PM
ON2, it is useless to boast about his SB without looking at his SB% and CS. He is poor at best this season on the bases.

As far as replacements for Pods goes, I really don't like the choices that will probably be out there. Pierre has no arm, Clark is a AAAA player who had a great 2005 season, Dave Roberts is kind of going in the wrong direction IMO, and we really don't have any options in the minors. Maybe KW will stick with Pods after he hits .350 and steals 15 bases for us in the playoffs this year, or maybe not. But I think either way, Pablo needs to play some winter ball - and play exclusively in LF - in the offseason.
Roberts has an .800 OPS and is doing much better than Pods in every important stat.

Domeshot17
08-15-2006, 12:41 AM
Pods has looked good lately. One thing I was thinking, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE A GAMBLE, What about Pablo in LF full time. In house, cheap as all hell, his D has been improving to a pods like level, he is a better hitter, better on the bases, and could be very solid in a full season. Much easier to then go out and get a super utility back up then get a LF lead off.

as far as SS go, ive been preaching for a while I would love a lead off SS, drop pods to 2 and tadahito to 8. I think pods stats are perfect for a 2 hitter, especially with someone infront of him. I would have loved to get Izturis from the Dodgers. Lugo is another guy I would gamble with. Cabrera from the angels could be available, especially with Brandon Wood coming up. Wood is the next big thing in my opinion,and would cost us Bmac + 2 top specs. I like Erik Aybar as well.

the problem is, Anaheim doesnt need any pitching, which is what we have to offer. They want to package an Aybar and a pitcher and maybe even Wood for a big time hitter. The ONLY way that deal could work is if a 3rd team was involved (I.E. Manny to Anaheim, Wood-Ervin Santana to US, Freddy Sweeney Rogowski to Boston. )

And This OBP thing needs to limited, throwing up names of clean up hitters, they always have higher OBP. your 3 4 5 should ALWAYS lead your team in OBP. Youklis leads off for boston because of his OBP but for the most part its comparing apples to oranges.

Another potential replacement coming to mind is Jaun Pierre, but who knows which one you're going to get.

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2006, 03:34 PM
Pods has looked good lately. One thing I was thinking, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE A GAMBLE, What about Pablo in LF full time. In house, cheap as all hell, his D has been improving to a pods like level, he is a better hitter, better on the bases, and could be very solid in a full season. Much easier to then go out and get a super utility back up then get a LF lead off.

as far as SS go, ive been preaching for a while I would love a lead off SS, drop pods to 2 and tadahito to 8. I think pods stats are perfect for a 2 hitter, especially with someone infront of him. I would have loved to get Izturis from the Dodgers. Lugo is another guy I would gamble with. Cabrera from the angels could be available, especially with Brandon Wood coming up. Wood is the next big thing in my opinion,and would cost us Fingernails on a blackboard + 2 top specs. I like Erik Aybar as well.

the problem is, Anaheim doesnt need any pitching, which is what we have to offer. They want to package an Aybar and a pitcher and maybe even Wood for a big time hitter. The ONLY way that deal could work is if a 3rd team was involved (I.E. Manny to Anaheim, Wood-Ervin Santana to US, Freddy Sweeney Rogowski to Boston. )

And This OBP thing needs to limited, throwing up names of clean up hitters, they always have higher OBP. your 3 4 5 should ALWAYS lead your team in OBP. Youklis leads off for boston because of his OBP but for the most part its comparing apples to oranges.

Another potential replacement coming to mind is Jaun Pierre, but who knows which one you're going to get.
:o:

Career OPS- .633
Career OPS+- 69

Uribe is much, much better. Izturis' reputation with the glove isn't worth the hit on offense. We can find someone. I loved the suggestion of Alberto Callaspo, he'd be pretty solid.

Chisox003
08-15-2006, 03:41 PM
I haven't gone through this thread, but I think the best replacement is already on our bench in Cintron, IMHO.

And if I had to bet, I think Pods will be back in LF next year. Justa hunch.

Ol' No. 2
08-15-2006, 04:11 PM
ON2, it is useless to boast about his SB without looking at his SB% and CS. He is poor at best this season on the bases.And focusing on SB% and CS can be extremely misleading. Paul Konerko has a 100% SB%. That doesn't make him a good base stealer. Rickey Henderson is the all-time leader in CS. That doesn't make him a bad one. It's not nearly as simple as you seem to believe.

It also matters a lot when those CS occur. He will almost always try to steal a base with two out with Iguchi at the plate. You can't just look at the overall numbers.

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2006, 04:17 PM
And focusing on SB% and CS can be extremely misleading. Paul Konerko has a 100% SB%. That doesn't make him a good base stealer. Rickey Henderson is the all-time leader in CS. That doesn't make him a bad one. It's not nearly as simple as you seem to believe.

It also matters a lot when those CS occur. He will almost always try to steal a base with two out with Iguchi at the plate. You can't just look at the overall numbers.
What I meant was you can't just look at SB, you have to look at both. Anyone with half a brain would know that Konerko isn't a good base stealer.

Ol' No. 2
08-15-2006, 04:20 PM
What I meant was you can't just look at SB, you have to look at both. Anyone with half a brain would know that Konerko isn't a good base stealer.Then why do you continually harp on the number of times he's been caught, neglecting everything else? If he's getting caught stealing in a close game when Iguchi is standing up there with two strikes and two out, I don't consider that to be hurting the team.

Craig Grebeck
08-15-2006, 05:49 PM
Then why do you continually harp on the number of times he's been caught, neglecting everything else? If he's getting caught stealing in a close game when Iguchi is standing up there with two strikes and two out, I don't consider that to be hurting the team.
I do. Gooch is a great hitter. I harp on the number of times he's been caught because it's high relative to how many times he's attempted a steal.

Ol' No. 2
08-15-2006, 06:13 PM
I do. Gooch is a great hitter. I harp on the number of times he's been caught because it's high relative to how many times he's attempted a steal.But this is a classic example of how misuse of statistics leads to the wrong answer. It's not nearly so simple as you make it out to be. Gooch might be a good hitter, but not with two strikes on him he isn't. The odds of scoring a runner from first in that situation aren't more than a few percent. If he gets thrown out stealing, it's not that big of a loss, and you get Iguchi to lead off the next inning with a fresh count instead of having Thome leading off. That more than compensates for the little you lose. The success rate needed for a net gain is far lower than what you think. Which means he's going to attempt it in situations where the liklihood of getting caught is higher.

Any good baseball person would know this. Statheads get blinded by their averages and biases and miss the game completely.