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View Full Version : A-Rod "watch" continues in NY, lol


caulfield12
08-12-2006, 05:30 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/cheers_and_jeers_for_a_rod_yankees_evan_grossman.h tm

Almost as much fun as the Prior and Wood watches.

And Hideki Matsui suffered a setback, so his return is definitely not going to be until September at the earliest. Everything seems to be coming up roses for the Sox now, including the Garza implosion and the fact Boof Bonser's starting today for Minnesota. Carlos Silva is now their #3, and Radke is pitching with half a shoulder. And even Santana hasn't looked like himself the past month or so, although he was nails against DET on Thursday.

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 09:16 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/cheers_and_jeers_for_a_rod_yankees_evan_grossman.h tm

Almost as much fun as the Prior and Wood watches.

And Hideki Matsui suffered a setback, so his return is definitely not going to be until September at the earliest. Everything seems to be coming up roses for the Sox now, including the Garza implosion and the fact Boof Bonser's starting today for Minnesota. Carlos Silva is now their #3, and Radke is pitching with half a shoulder. And even Santana hasn't looked like himself the past month or so, although he was nails against DET on Thursday.Any time they want to get rid of him, we'll take him. He might have to be willing change positions to SS, though.

WSox597
08-12-2006, 09:25 AM
we'll take him

Absolutely! At shortstop anyway. We don't need a third baseman right now.

chaerulez
08-12-2006, 11:12 AM
Any time they want to get rid of him, we'll take him. He might have to be willing change positions to SS, though.

That's his natural position.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 11:31 AM
It would have to be Crede, Garcia and Cotts probably...something along those lines. Although they would ask for Thornton over Cotts at this point in time...or maybe they would ask for Sweeney or Broadway instead of another LH reliever.

But Cashman would never accept Fields over Crede to play 3B...not for a team like the Yankees.

A-Rod would go to SS with Fields at 3B...leaving only the "Pods problem" to deal with...

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 03:05 PM
It would have to be Crede, Garcia and Cotts probably...something along those lines. Although they would ask for Thornton over Cotts at this point in time...or maybe they would ask for Sweeney or Broadway instead of another LH reliever.

But Cashman would never accept Fields over Crede to play 3B...not for a team like the Yankees.

A-Rod would go to SS with Fields at 3B...leaving only the "Pods problem" to deal with...Don't quit your day job.

fquaye149
08-12-2006, 03:07 PM
Don't quit your day job.

Yeah! ON2 says: "if you don't throw in BA for free, it ain't worth doing":redneck

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 03:14 PM
Okay, who would you trade, assuming they were willing to take Garcia (which would make no sense with Pavano on the books as well)...along with Crede for A-Rod?

If you were NY, would you trade A-Rod for Garcia and Crede straight up? I wouldn't dream about doing that one.

How much would the Yankees have to pay towards the $25 million per year...as they're now paying about $15 million per season?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 05:56 PM
Okay, who would you trade, assuming they were willing to take Garcia (which would make no sense with Pavano on the books as well)...along with Crede for A-Rod?

If you were NY, would you trade A-Rod for Garcia and Crede straight up? I wouldn't dream about doing that one.

How much would the Yankees have to pay towards the $25 million per year...as they're now paying about $15 million per season?

Inquiring minds want to know.Why in hell would I want to trade Joe Crede?

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 06:27 PM
You don't think A-Rod is an upgrade? And you're not worried about Joe's herniated disks in the least?

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 06:46 PM
You don't think A-Rod is an upgrade? And you're not worried about Joe's herniated disks in the least?I don't want Rodrieguez at 3B. I want him at SS. I'd give them Garcia, Fields and pretty much their pick of the Sox minor leagues except possibly Broadway if the Yanks put up enough $$ to get his salary down to $12M or so. Then trade Uribe to someone else for prospects or a good reliever.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 06:55 PM
Obviously we have a lot of emotionality invested with Crede, one of the last of the position players developed in our system.

I just don't think Cashman would even think for more than a second about that deal, because Fields would have to start right away at 3B...and then Sweeney is superfluous because they have Abreu, Matsui, Sheffield, Cabrera, etc.

And we can't trade McCullough. Valido is back in A ball.

So you would accept it (from a Sox perspective) if it was Fields, Garcia and N. Cotts, assuming the Yanks would give us another $3 million?

I don't see how we could trade Garcia to many teams without paying THEM $3 million to take him without us giving up something pretty good in return (see Arizona and Philadelphia trades).

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 07:08 PM
Obviously we have a lot of emotionality invested with Crede, one of the last of the position players developed in our system.

I just don't think Cashman would even think for more than a second about that deal, because Fields would have to start right away at 3B...and then Sweeney is superfluous because they have Abreu, Matsui, Sheffield, Cabrera, etc.

And we can't trade McCullough. Valido is back in A ball.

So you would accept it (from a Sox perspective) if it was Fields, Garcia and N. Cotts, assuming the Yanks would give us another $3 million?

I don't see how we could trade Garcia to many teams without paying THEM $3 million to take him without us giving up something pretty good in return (see Arizona and Philadelphia trades).Obviously, Garcia's value will depend a lot on how he finishes the season, but the Yankees always need starting pitching.

Wanting to hold on to Crede is not emotional at all. You get the biggest upgrades when you upgrade your weakest positions. That's SS and LF. It makes no sense to trade away your best chips to upgrade where you're already pretty good. If Cashman insists on Crede, say no thanks and move along to someone else. Tejada is a much better fit anyway since they'd be trading a SS for a SS.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 07:17 PM
I don't know, I've never seen so many "emotional" exchanges in my life since the Rowand trade and all this back-and-forth over Anderson this entire season.

Ideally, we could get A-Rod and NOT give up Crede, I just don't see it happening. While we're at it, we might as well get them to give us Melky Cabrera as well, lol.

In actuality, not such a bad idea, because Matsui comes back and there's no at-bats for Cabrera for the next year, barring injuries.

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 07:26 PM
I don't know, I've never seen so many "emotional" exchanges in my life since the Rowand trade and all this back-and-forth over Anderson this entire season.

Ideally, we could get A-Rod and NOT give up Crede, I just don't see it happening. While we're at it, we might as well get them to give us Melky Cabrera as well, lol.

In actuality, not such a bad idea, because Matsui comes back and there's no at-bats for Cabrera for the next year, barring injuries.I agree they're not going to trade Rodrieguez without getting an established 3B in return. Playing rookies at key positions just isn't their style, and just imagine the NY press if he starts out like BA did.:o:

I'd have to say Tejada is probably the best fit. They get Uribe as part of the deal along with Garcia and a prospect. The O's need starting pitching. I don't know if they have a 1B in their minor league system, but they might be interested in Rogowski. Millar is signed only through 2006, and both Millar and Conine are RH, so they could use a LH backup.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 07:30 PM
If we still had Lumsden, he would definitely be their pick over Rogowski.

Casey seems to be one of those guys like Gload, Olmedo Saenz or Mario Valdez that never quite becomes a starter but is a valuable contributor off the bench.

I suppose they could convert Sweeney to 1B, they would definitely want a shot at Ryan over Casey.

And then we get into how much KW is willing to give up. I know he hated to part with Chris Young and Gio Gonzalez.

IlliniSox4Life
08-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Why in the hell would we give up Crede?

ARod is a great player, but Crede is better defensively and this year he's batting 20 pts higher with an extra home run. Color me confused. Sure, ARod might be more likely to have a better 2007 as he has a much better career average in hitting, but I can't expect Crede to be too far off.

On top of that, Crede is clutch. He only has 4 less RBI this year than Arod, and Arod is batting in a spot that gives him more RBI.

The thing is, we don't NEED arod, so why trade a hell of a lot to get him? If we can give up Garcia, Fields, and some minor leaguers, then jump on it. If they want Crede+Garcia, the price is too high. I think Freddy would do well pitching in NY as he likes the big stage and I want him to do well.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 07:35 PM
Well, I guess, by definition, every game the Yankees play is a "big game," so maybe he would do even better there?

But any pitcher making that kind of money is going to come under a lot of scrutiny if he pulls a Loiaza for the Yankees...

Daver
08-12-2006, 07:37 PM
I agree they're not going to trade Rodrieguez without getting an established 3B in return. Playing rookies at key positions just isn't their style, and just imagine the NY press if he starts out like BA did.

Wait till the offseason, Cashman will gladly trade Alex for 4 or 5 decent minor leaguers just to get his salary out of NY. Brian Cashman has a large problem right now, he has nothing to trade in his minor league system. He would then outright buy a third baseman.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 08:00 PM
Phillip Hughes, Eric Duncan and Jose Tabata are their top prospects. All were mentioned prominently at the deadline, and Cashman did a KW approach and refused to deal his best pitching prospect.

Plus, they're essentially going to have to bench Melky Cabrera next season.

So I wouldn't say they're much worse off than the White Sox at this point.

How many players do we have that we're pretty sure are major league regulars at this point?

Haeger...jury still out to a large extent
Broadway
Fields
most aren't sure if Owens or Sweeney can play everyday
Valido has had a terrible season
jury is still out on Rogowski as well, but looks to be a bench player
McCullough
maybe, just maybe Corwin Malone
Russell might figure in
please no more Anderson Gomes threads, lol

Tragg
08-12-2006, 08:27 PM
With the Yankees and their fans frustration to him, it seems to me that he should come at a bargain price, whether it involves young players, pitchers, veterans or whatever.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 08:44 PM
However, Cashman has already given us Contreras...and we're one of the biggest rivals to the Yankees now, after the Red Sox.

So I don't see him looking at the White Sox as a trade possibility unless it's the final option, well, maybe before the Red Sox. Of course, OTOH, how many teams can afford to take on that contract? Granted, the Yankees can kick in $2-4 million, but there's still only 8-10 teams in baseball that could afford him. Does he have a clause that keeps them from trading him to the NL? What are the teams on his list? Does anyone know?

You know it had to drive them a little nuts to see Contreras and El Duque playing such a big part in the WS victory.

Tragg
08-12-2006, 08:49 PM
However, Cashman has already given us Contreras...and we're one of the biggest rivals to the Yankees now, after the Red Sox.

So I don't see him looking at the White Sox as a trade possibility unless it's the final option, well, maybe before the Red Sox. Of course, OTOH, how many teams can afford to take on that contract? Granted, the Yankees can kick in $2-4 million, but there's still only 8-10 teams in baseball that could afford him. Does he have a clause that keeps them from trading him to the NL? What are the teams on his list? Does anyone know?

You know it had to drive them a little nuts to see Contreras and El Duque playing such a big part in the WS victory. You're right that Cashman may prefer not to trade him to us. If so, we don't get him...overpaying is a not a good idea.
He didn't "give" us Contreras....in fact, most touts/analysts etc. thought the Yanks got the edge at the time (they didn't get the money/contract aspect of Williams' trades).
On the other hand, the Yankees got Abreu and Lidle for basically one top prospect (but were willing to absorb the money).
They got those 2 for a lot less than we got Thome ...but they ate the money and we didn't.

Quickly glancing at the FA list for this offseason, it looks mediocre for starting pitching (Gil Meche may be the best of the bunch after Zito)...which means that if we want to shop Garcia or someone, we should get a nice return. Indeed, tradebait of Garcia, Rob M (and I don't know who we'd replace him with...he's a lot, lot better than what we had last year), Uribe and Pods.....to upgrade SS and leadoff might be doable.

It would be nice to get A Rod...I'd much, much prefer getting him than Tejada.

IlliniSox4Life
08-12-2006, 09:13 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Arod in a Cubs uniform either. They can afford him, and it's just the type of big name they need to get enough hype to keep them in the news with us (after we win our second title). Plus, the Yankees would be much happier sending him to an NL non contender than somebody in the AL or somebody who is a contender in the NL.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 09:19 PM
Cashman pretty much admitted that the fishbowl and unrealistic expectations in NY were going to keep him from ever reaching his potential. And I think the separation from his family played a huge part. And you had the fact that Contreras was almost falling apart against the Red Sox...each start against them getting progressively worse, and all the signings like Irabu and Contreras have been made with the idea of one-upping Boston and getting an advantage in the war.

Not unlike Joe Borchard or Kip Wells, they knew the the player had little chance of succeeding with the expectations that had been created...

DumpJerry
08-12-2006, 09:25 PM
I DO NOT WANT A-ROD ON THE WHITE SOX!!!!!
Every team he plays on gets worse while he might improve his own skills. Also, his agent is Borass.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 09:29 PM
The contract's already a done deal...and it might solidify the relationship to actually keep Crede instead of worrying about losing him.

Ol' No. 2
08-12-2006, 11:34 PM
Wait till the offseason, Cashman will gladly trade Alex for 4 or 5 decent minor leaguers just to get his salary out of NY. Brian Cashman has a large problem right now, he has nothing to trade in his minor league system. He would then outright buy a third baseman.Look over the list of 3B that are good enough that the Yankees would be interested. Here's what I come up with:

Blaylock (Rangers)
Cabrera (Marlins)
Chavez (A's)
Crede (Sox)
Glaus (Jays)
C. Jones (Braves)
Lowell (Red Sox)
Rolen (Cards)
Sanchez (Pirates)
Wright (Mets)

Maybe I missed someone, but I don't see any of those guys you could blast away from their current team without a HUGE package of players in return. None of them are FA. Who do the Yankees have to trade that would entice a team to part with one of these guys? They're going to have some spare parts, like Melky Cabrera, but he's nowhere close to enough to get one of these guys.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 11:48 PM
Blalock, Chavez and Glaus would be the most logical choices. Blalock has been rumored in lots of deals over the last two seasons.

Chavez could use a new environment and has struggled mightily this season.

Chipper is getting older and injury-prone.
Cabrera would cost too much, Sanchez is a value for Pitt, and he's not a home run hitter.

Wright, good luck with that one. I would almost say the same thing about Rolen...maybe Scott would be the 4th option.

With Pavano coming back, they also have Jaret Wright to dangle.

Ol' No. 2
08-13-2006, 11:21 AM
Blalock, Chavez and Glaus would be the most logical choices. Blalock has been rumored in lots of deals over the last two seasons.

Chavez could use a new environment and has struggled mightily this season.

Chipper is getting older and injury-prone.
Cabrera would cost too much, Sanchez is a value for Pitt, and he's not a home run hitter.

Wright, good luck with that one. I would almost say the same thing about Rolen...maybe Scott would be the 4th option.

With Pavano coming back, they also have Jaret Wright to dangle.Toronto is not going to trade Glaus to the Yankees. Neither is Beane going to trade Chavez to get high-salaried players in return. Blaylock is the most likely, and that's still not very likely IMO. And who would want Jaret Wright? Even the Rangers aren't that pitching-blind.

Paulwny
08-13-2006, 11:37 AM
A-Rod's not going anywhere, Sheffield's salary will be off the books next year. Due to the support A-Rod is now getting from most of the NY media and yankmee players, ( " The fans expectations for A-Rod are too high.") the crowds at yankmee statium now applaud and cheer A-Rod at each plate appearance. We'll see how long that lasts.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 11:38 AM
Two word, or maybe three.

Chan Ho Park.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 11:41 AM
Pawlny, can you imagine any scenario of the Yankees not making it to the playoffs, or even the World Series, and A-Rod still being around?

He could hit .350 in the WS and if he makes one error or fails to get a clutch hit, that will be the end.

Ol' No. 2
08-13-2006, 11:42 AM
Two word, or maybe three.

Chan Ho Park.Park didn't have the injury history that Wright does. No team would count on Wright to be more than a fifth starter. Not even the Rangers - and that's saying a lot.

Paulwny
08-13-2006, 11:51 AM
Pawlny, can you imagine any scenario of the Yankees not making it to the playoffs, or even the World Series, and A-Rod still being around?

He could hit .350 in the WS and if he makes one error or fails to get a clutch hit, that will be the end.

Torre has mentioned that he thinks his team is fine offensively as long as there aren't any more injuries, plus the expectation of Matsui and/or Sheffield returning. He feels that A-Rod is pressing and it really shows on defense.
Yesterday, during a FOX dugout interview he stated that the bull pens will determine the AL east winner. The team with the starters who can go > 5 innings will have the advantage.
Just as with the sox, it's not the offense that's the problem.

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 12:03 PM
NY pen over Boston pen due to experience, Rivera (although the most vulnerable I have ever seen him, losing aura of invincibility finally)

Schilling/Mussina=slight advantage to Schilling due to FB
Wang/Beckett=talent and stuff to Beckett, but this season Wang
Johnson/Lester=RJ, especially coming down the stretch due to experience
Wright/Wells=who knows, game to game, both are inconsistent
Lidle/J. Johnson=clear advantage to Yankees, not even close...

Wild cards...Wakefield, Dotel and Pavano

fquaye149
08-13-2006, 12:16 PM
I DO NOT WANT A-ROD ON THE WHITE SOX!!!!!


ok.

Paulwny
08-13-2006, 12:28 PM
NY pen over Boston pen due to experience, Rivera (although the most vulnerable I have ever seen him, losing aura of invincibility finally)

Schilling/Mussina=slight advantage to Schilling due to FB
Wang/Beckett=talent and stuff to Beckett, but this season Wang
Johnson/Lester=RJ, especially coming down the stretch due to experience
Wright/Wells=who knows, game to game, both are inconsistent
Lidle/J. Johnson=clear advantage to Yankees, not even close...

Wild cards...Wakefield, Dotel and Pavano

Good analysis

DSpivack
08-13-2006, 02:33 PM
NY pen over Boston pen due to experience, Rivera (although the most vulnerable I have ever seen him, losing aura of invincibility finally)

Schilling/Mussina=slight advantage to Schilling due to FB
Wang/Beckett=talent and stuff to Beckett, but this season Wang
Johnson/Lester=RJ, especially coming down the stretch due to experience
Wright/Wells=who knows, game to game, both are inconsistent
Lidle/J. Johnson=clear advantage to Yankees, not even close...

Wild cards...Wakefield, Dotel and Pavano
Although I agree with everything else, this statement makes no sense. Last year was perhaps his best year ever, which is pretty amazing. This season his ERA is at 1.89, and has just three BS. He's still the best closer around.

SoxFanPrope
08-13-2006, 03:16 PM
Inquiring minds want to know.
This inquiring mind wants to know why you aren't happy with the team as it is? :dunno:

caulfield12
08-13-2006, 03:50 PM
Because you can always get better.

SoxFanPrope
08-13-2006, 08:03 PM
Because you can always get better.
Yeah, A-Rod would probably help us sweep the division leader.....oh, wait.