PDA

View Full Version : Garcia expecting to be gone after this year


salty99
08-10-2006, 11:11 AM
Surprised noone commented on this yet:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sside10.html

I hope Garcia stays but he needs to focus against the lesser. It's pretty embarassing he admits not pitching well against crappy teams.

Scottiehaswheels
08-10-2006, 11:14 AM
Surprised noone commented on this yet:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sside10.html

I hope Garcia stays but he needs to focus against the lesser. It's pretty embarassing he admits not pitching well against crappy teams.Well, KW promised Brandon a starting job next year... Someone has to go... I'd rather keep Javy with his upside with a fastball that gets above 89mph... Can't get rid of Jose/Jon/Mark... kind of makes Freddy the odd man out I'm afraid to say...

kobo
08-10-2006, 11:20 AM
What is with this ****?

''I know it's bad to say, but I really focus more and concentrate better against better teams, make better pitches,'' he said.

Really nice. Way to be prepared there Freddy and help the team. It's only your ****ing job to pitch every 5 days, guess that's too much work!

Frater Perdurabo
08-10-2006, 11:31 AM
I'm not sure which of the five starters should be dealt after this year, but I know I'd rather not focus on it until this season is finished.

BNLSox
08-10-2006, 11:34 AM
Which ever one commands the most trade value in terms of restocking youthful pitching talent I'd say is gone. Freddy needs a shrink... I can't believe he admits that he doesn't try as hard against lesser teams. That's unbelievable. And Ozzie benches Uribe.... Someone else should be in the doghouse too.

ewokpelts
08-10-2006, 11:34 AM
Face the facts: Buerhle's going to get resigned. The money needs to come from somewhere. And with B - Mac knitting in the bullpen, waiting for his chance, someone has to go.
Garcia and Buerhle are the only two starters not signed or rights-controlled past 2007.

IronFisk
08-10-2006, 11:38 AM
I would mind either one leaving - Brandon SHOULD be in the rotation NOW!

Rocky Soprano
08-10-2006, 11:39 AM
Has Garcia even said that he wants to stay with the Sox?
I actually think he wants to leave.

102605
08-10-2006, 11:42 AM
At least Buehrle is lowering the amount it is going to take for resigning him!

Gammons Peter
08-10-2006, 11:43 AM
Good, he can take Buerhle with him too. Freddy can go someplace else and throw 83 MPH and let baserunners steal at will.

Madvora
08-10-2006, 11:44 AM
Has Garcia even said that he wants to stay with the Sox?
I actually think he wants to leave.
Right before the deadline on 7/31, there were rumors that Garcia would welcome a trade to the Mets. That kind of came out of nowhere.

I don't think any one on our staff has reach "untouchable" status. We need to improve the pitching next year and everyone is available to go if it will help.

34 Inch Stick
08-10-2006, 11:45 AM
What is with this ****?



Really nice. Way to be prepared there Freddy and help the team. It's only your ****ing job to pitch every 5 days, guess that's too much work!

Buhrle said a very similar thing before he started his slide. That is troubling. I would think a pitcher would like to absolutely gobble up scoreless innings against bad teams. I know hitters cannot wait to hit against bad pitchers.

caulfield12
08-10-2006, 11:48 AM
I don't even make the assumption any more that Buehrle will be with the Sox past 2007, let alone the trade deadline next season.

It's a dilemma. We're going to have to do a "El Duque" trade where we either take another huge salary back or give up some of the few true prospects left in our system with Garcia to get this done.

Most GM's around the league would be more willing to take a chance with Vazquez than Garcia....call it the AJ Burnett syndrome of placing stuff and potential over results.

I think we would have to eat at least $3-5 million of Garcia's deal for next year to unload him. And the NL is more of a fastball-oriented league, so I'm not sure if he will find a home there, although there is always the hope that he will HAVE to be better in the NL because of the 8 and 9 hitters.

It's also obvious Vazquez has more POTENTIAL to be a Loaiza/Contreras story and be that shutdown starter than Garcia at this point. Not to mention that we simply cannot afford to have a 95% steal rate against a pitcher that now puts on a ton of baserunners through hits and walks. It's demoralizing for the entire team...the defense...the catcher...and the manager. It's not unlike seeing any ball going towards Pods and knowing that he might not even be able to throw out most runners going from 2nd to 3rd RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM on a sacrifice fly.

BainesHOF
08-10-2006, 11:54 AM
I'm sick of not only seeing Garcia let runners steal at will, but also him acting like a baby when a play isn't made behind him. The fact that nothing has been done to Garcia for showing up his teammates and that it continues to happen is exhibit #1 that Ozzie plays favorites.

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 12:00 PM
I love it when the press and fans try to be Kenny Williams. No one may go if the deal is not sweet enough.

Taliesinrk
08-10-2006, 12:00 PM
give me a break guys.. yeah i get frustrated when FG shows up his defense like the second guy; but the quote about getting up for better teams is almost human nature. I'm not saying it's right, but i know that's how it is when i pitch. there's something about knowing you're going to face one of the best teams in the league in comparison to the DRays. you get a little extra goin. the adrenaline kicks in or something.. like that feeling you get when you get pulled over and u look in the rear view mirror and see the lights of the cop car... i'm talking too much now (but i was serious).
i know i want Brandon to get his chance too; but let's not forget, FG has been a huge asset to this team (especially last year). the guy's a hell of a pitcher and u guys are acting like you'd just rather cut him. who knows too.. maybe this velocity thing is temporary.. only time will tell

Madvora
08-10-2006, 12:26 PM
FG has been a huge asset to this team (especially last year)You know what's weird... is that there's totally that "going out on top" type of thing with these Sox players.
If the Sox don't win the World Series, or even make it to the playoffs and Garcia gets traded in the off season, then he's not going to be immediately remembered for his 2005 performance, but rather for his sub-par 2006 performance. Orlando Hernandez, on the other hand, will probably always be looked at as a hero because he left while on top.

caulfield12
08-10-2006, 04:44 PM
See Harris, Willie and Blum, Geoff. Hermanson too.

I don't think Everett and Timo Perez and Marte, Vizcaino will reach that status for various reasons...

JB98
08-10-2006, 04:47 PM
give me a break guys.. yeah i get frustrated when FG shows up his defense like the second guy; but the quote about getting up for better teams is almost human nature. I'm not saying it's right, but i know that's how it is when i pitch. there's something about knowing you're going to face one of the best teams in the league in comparison to the DRays. you get a little extra goin. the adrenaline kicks in or something.. like that feeling you get when you get pulled over and u look in the rear view mirror and see the lights of the cop car... i'm talking too much now (but i was serious).
i know i want Brandon to get his chance too; but let's not forget, FG has been a huge asset to this team (especially last year). the guy's a hell of a pitcher and u guys are acting like you'd just rather cut him. who knows too.. maybe this velocity thing is temporary.. only time will tell

If Freddy is "getting up for better teams," I expect a lights-out performance against Detroit on Sunday.

thomas35forever
08-10-2006, 04:52 PM
It'll be either Javy or Freddy. I'll keep the other three. I know Freddy's used to pitching in big games, but if he can't do well in regular season games, I'm not sure about him pitching in Game 7 of the World Series.

southwstchi4life
08-10-2006, 04:53 PM
To early to tell. It depends who does well down the stretch who will stay.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 04:58 PM
If Freddy is "getting up for better teams," I expect a lights-out performance against Detroit on Sunday.You mean like he did in NY last month: 7IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 2 HR

Or maybe like he did against Boston the week before: 5 IP, 8 H, 5 ER, 1 HR

Or maybe that big one against Cleveland in his first start: 4 IP, 9 H, 7 ER, 1 HR

JB98
08-10-2006, 05:04 PM
You mean like he did in NY last month: 7IP, 9 H, 6 ER, 2 HR

Or maybe like he did against Boston the week before: 5 IP, 8 H, 5 ER, 1 HR

Or maybe that big one against Cleveland in his first start: 4 IP, 9 H, 7 ER, 1 HR

I think Garcia has sucked against pretty much everybody, whether he's "fired up" or not.

cgaudin
08-10-2006, 05:04 PM
No way. If the Sox make it to the post season and Garcia pitches well, there's no way they will trade him. After all, the Sox want to go deep in the post-season and he will be instrumental in getting "big game" victories. In addition, all this talk about tired arms, I've been a huge supporter of the six man rotation idea. You can NEVER have too much pitching. It's an absolute luxury to have McCarthy in the bullpen. He is HUGE insurance if a starter were to go down for any length of time. If someone does get traded, I hope KW has someone lined up to take a spot in the rotation, in addition to McCarthy. Most other teams have one or two "quality" pitchers. This Sox team has effectively 5 number 1 starters. Even though the rotation has not shown its talent so far this year, all other GM's in the league would sell their firstborn to have a rotation as deep as the Sox.

Law11
08-10-2006, 05:27 PM
This team will have 3-4 new players come next year.
You know KW will upgrade the holes we have.
I mean the money Crede and JD are going to warrant
mean Garcia & pods are gone. Fields could be up in LF next year
Brandon in the rotation.

There are so many variables in the off-season. But thats for then.
If Freddy cant get up for EVERY game at this point of the season then good riddence. I'm sure there are pleanty of teams who cherish a guy who throws 88 and gives up 30 HR a season..

(hey my 1,000th post) and its wasted on Freddy talk..

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 05:29 PM
I think Garcia has sucked against pretty much everybody, whether he's "fired up" or not.He's become a junkball pitcher. I started noticing it last year that he was throwing a lot fewer fastballs, and lately he almost never hops it up at 90+. He still can - he just won't. He's fallen in love with his junk. Unfortunately, so have opposing hitters.

The Immigrant
08-10-2006, 06:12 PM
He's fallen in love with his junk. Unfortunately, so have opposing hitters.
:kneeslap:
We laugh because it's true.

The thing that strikes me about Freddy is that it often seems like his effort/focus is not there. The fact that his fastball does occasionally top 90mph, and yet he prefers to throw his t-ball junk, indicates a certain laziness about him that bugs me to no end.

Taliesinrk
08-10-2006, 06:12 PM
He's become a junkball pitcher. I started noticing it last year that he was throwing a lot fewer fastballs, and lately he almost never hops it up at 90+. He still can - he just won't. He's fallen in love with his junk. Unfortunately, so have opposing hitters.

u think he still can consistantly? i'm pretty sure if he could (and hadn't lost velocity) that 1. we wouldn't be having this discussion, and 2. that FG/ the Sox wouldn't continually make remarks about their concerns that Freddy has lost a bit

cheezheadsoxfan
08-10-2006, 06:13 PM
I'm sick of not only seeing Garcia let runners steal at will, but also him acting like a baby when a play isn't made behind him. The fact that nothing has been done to Garcia for showing up his teammates and that it continues to happen is exhibit #1 that Ozzie plays favorites.

You beat me to it. Someone else said he needs to start throwing pitches instead of tantrums. I'd rather take our chances with Javy. He's got great stuff if he can overcome the headcase thing and doesn't seem to be quite the drama queen Freddy is.

soxinem1
08-10-2006, 06:15 PM
Hmmm, let's see:

Easiest to steal off of. This was okay when he was tougher to hit, but with 2-3 baserunners an inning, it is not okay any longer.
Has allowed more SB's in a season than he ever had, with ten starts left.
Lowest K/IP ratio of his career at present.
Highest H/IP ratio of his career at present
On pace for the highest ERA of his career, by far.
Has given up more HR/IP than ever before....
Leaves $50K+ in cash, $30K in jewels in his car?
Fastball now slower than his speeding car.......
Tests positive for pot.....
Can't get it up against doormat teams..
Can't get it up against winning teams...
Can't get it up against any team....

Will make $10 million next year.....

Who says he'll be traded? With all this, who would want him for anything of value?

Taliesinrk
08-10-2006, 06:16 PM
You know what's weird... is that there's totally that "going out on top" type of thing with these Sox players.
If the Sox don't win the World Series, or even make it to the playoffs and Garcia gets traded in the off season, then he's not going to be immediately remembered for his 2005 performance, but rather for his sub-par 2006 performance. Orlando Hernandez, on the other hand, will probably always be looked at as a hero because he left while on top.

i agree.. maybe that comes with a winning franchise, but i think it's somewhat unappreciative. it sucks

See Harris, Willie and Blum, Geoff. Hermanson too.

I don't think Everett and Timo Perez and Marte, Vizcaino will reach that status for various reasons...

speak for yourself in regards to Timo.. the guy was awesome.. always gave it all he had and scored from first on a Ben Davis gapper.. come on.. one of Hawk's all-time best (or worst??) calls. and put me in the minority who loves Everett. he strikes me as having a very similar personality to Ozzie... I think he's just been lead a bit astray on a couple of his viewpoints.. that's all. at least he's honest and forthright about who he is and what he thinks

hi im skot
08-10-2006, 06:22 PM
i agree.. maybe that comes with a winning franchise, but i think it's somewhat unappreciative. it sucks



speak for yourself in regards to Timo.. the guy was awesome.. always gave it all he had and scored from first on a Ben Davis gapper.. come on.. one of Hawk's all-time best (or worst??) calls. and put me in the minority who loves Everett. he strikes me as having a very similar personality to Ozzie... I think he's just been lead a bit astray on a couple of his viewpoints.. that's all. at least he's honest and forthright about who he is and what he thinks

I'll always remember Timo for his game-winning hit against the Angels on Memorial Day last season. And Crazy Carl is just hilarious.

TheOldRoman
08-10-2006, 07:01 PM
OK, I have heard this a few times, all from Tailgunner Joe, but what was this alleged trade in the offseason? Who were the Sox sending Garcia to, and for what?

goon
08-10-2006, 07:16 PM
i like freddy, but watching him this year has been nearly unbearable. while he has showed up for the "big" games in the past, i think it would be difficult for him to really be effective with his fastball now at 88 MPH against good teams in the playoffs. however, i will say this, if he can pitch the way he did against the yankees in the last 4 innings, using his slider, forkball, changeup, curveball and throwing them for strikes, his fastball will be that much more dangerous.

but he still can't hold baserunners on, he throws a hissyfit if the defense lets him down, he's lethargic, nonchanlant and all around lazy. it used to be cute when he was mowing down great teams, now it's just annoying to watch. i hope he helps the sox this year, but i wouldn't mind seeing brandon replace him in 2007, whether or not he "get his **** together".

lakeviewsoxfan
08-10-2006, 07:31 PM
Should have happened after last year

The Immigrant
08-10-2006, 07:57 PM
Should have happened after last year

I have to call bull**** on that statement.

Freddy pitched well throughout the playoffs, including a solid outing at Fenway, a complete game in Anaheim, and a scoreless gem in Game 4 of the World Series. What happened to him over the winter, I don't know - but to say that he should have been traded after last year is a bit much.

lakeviewsoxfan
08-10-2006, 08:01 PM
I have to call bull**** on that statement.

Freddy pitched well throughout the playoffs, including a solid outing at Fenway, a complete game in Anaheim, and a scoreless gem in Game 4 of the World Series. What happened to him over the winter, I don't know - but to say that he should have been traded after last year is a bit much.

Well when you think about trading the players "value" comes into play right now I am willing to wager Freddys "value" is at an all time low compared to last off-season when it was probably around his "value" when we acquired him.

FarWestChicago
08-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Well when you think about trading the players "value" comes into play right now I am willing to wager Freddys "value" is at an all time low compared to last off-season when it was probably around his "value" when we acquired him.Big ****ing deal.

Brian26
08-10-2006, 10:53 PM
I'll always remember Timo for his game-winning hit against the Angels on Memorial Day last season. And Crazy Carl is just hilarious.

How can you not love Everett after he got up on the rail and went after Garner?

bafiarocks03
08-11-2006, 12:56 PM
oh my..Please let's HOPEEEE that he doesn't leave!!! I'll be a total mess! I've come to a decision that he's like me favorite player, and bam now he'll be gone!? NOt going to happen! =[

salty99
08-11-2006, 01:00 PM
How can you not love Everett after he got up on the rail and went after Garner?

Because he's a tool. And Kenny W. is now claiming Garcia is misinformed,we shall see.

lostletters
08-12-2006, 04:25 AM
I think Garcia will be traded.

MB might be resigned because he is going to come cheaper then he would if he had a great year this year. I think the stumble may have actually set him up to continue to wear a white sox uniform. With Mark Buerhle I think the problem is location and pitch selection, not his stuff. Plus lefties are a rare commodity. MB may have taken a step back this year, but I doubt that he is done.

Vazquez is a project. I think that Cooper wants to keep him around for at least another year. Taking he has taken his lumps and maybe have cleared a hurdle, he more then likely will stick around.

McCarthy will be a starter next year. He is cheap and he will have the pitches next year to be a starter. He already has the demeanor.

Garland and JC have proved thier worth. No need to dump either of them.

Grzegorz
08-12-2006, 05:07 AM
If the White Sox can get something for Garcia then deal him. I'd like to see this team build a little more depth in its pitching stock. It wouldn't hurt to find another prospect that can play the outfield prefereably center field.

But, you do not deal Freddie just to deal him.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 05:54 AM
It seems, and this is just my perception, that Cooper works more with Vazquez than Garcia. Maybe it's just because Vazquez has had "obvious" problems this season that needed to be fixed, but I think Garcia is a little more stubborn about changing anything or being told to do something different.

Something else that I've picked up on is the whole junkballer syndrome...if you throw too many sliders and a bevy of off-speed pitches, it actually takes speed off your fastball. I remember when Vizcaino used to routinely throw in the mid 90's with the Brewers before he fell in love with that slider.

I'm not sure which came first...the "dead arm" and the changed approach, or the changed approach which has led to a diminished fastball all season long.

Once again, with Garcia, it's about all about that contract. I don't think anyone is willing to take on all of it for next season unless we include a ton of prospects not named Sweeney, Fields or Broadway.

It's going to be a deal similar to the the one for El Duque where we exchange salaries to some extent...probably for an outfielder to replace Pods. To some extent, there has to be a concern about Anderson's ability to ever hit a breaking ball as well.

Whoever said we had to worry about Dye, we're locked into the bargain of the century with a $6 million dollar option for next year, so no worries there.

Looks like KW is comfortable with Fields in LF, we also have Owens of course, Sweeney is making huge strides recently and we have a lot of LH pitching depth in the minors.

The one area we lack is that frontline starter (Detroit has at least two in Miller and Sanchez and maybe Jurrjens in A ball) to come up from the minors, but we do, of course, have McCarthy.

Grzegorz
08-12-2006, 07:17 AM
If Garcia is to be dealt, how does dealing Garcia and prospects help us at all??? If anything, eat some of Garcia's salary and see if you can obtain prospects.

I have nothing against fields, but if Fields takes over in left field next year, where do our stolen bases come from? I like the idea of manufacturing runs through stolen bases, hitting and running, and running the bases aggressively. I like the idea of winning ballgames through the application of speed, aggressiveness, pitching, and defense.

This formula brought us a World Series champion. I am not saying that Fields has no place on this roster, I am just asking why deviate from a winning formula?

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 07:27 AM
It doesn't.

Just like giving up Chris Young didn't help us, because now we're left with no substitute for Anderson, having traded away Webster, Reed, Rowand and Young. We also gave up Gio Gonzalez to get a big chunk of money back for Thome...obviously, the Phillies had to give some money, but this is the way the White Sox have typically done business in the past.

It's all about money. My preference would be for them to be willing to pay $3-5 million and get him out of here. The Dodgers are paying all of Odalis Perez's salary for two seasons in KC.

It seems like Jerry Owens isn't going to be the answer. I think there's only one outfielder in the minors with significantly more than the 37 steals JO has, Justin Christian with Trenton (58 steals), and he's 26 not exactly a prospect in AA.

The only way to do this is to deal Uribe and bring someone with those characteristics in to bat leadoff from the SS position. Rob Valido was SUPPOSED to be that player, but many doubts about Valido and Owens have emerged this seaoson.

Personally, I would prefer to see Sweeney in LF, if he can hit 15-18 homers at least. But it looks like the only way to replace Pods/Uribe is to trade Fields/Crede OR Sweeney. I don't see them holding on to both players, although Jermaine's possible departure in 2008 would open up RF for Sweeney at that point.

I don't see Fields as a RFer, LF only. Sweeney and Owens can't play CF in the bigs, and I still have some unanswered questions about Anderson's ability to hit the breaking ball...it would be great if that leadoff hitter was our CFer, but that's not ever going to happen with Anderson IMO.

FloridaSox
08-12-2006, 10:22 AM
i like freddy, but watching him this year has been nearly unbearable. while he has showed up for the "big" games in the past, i think it would be difficult for him to really be effective with his fastball now at 88 MPH against good teams in the playoffs. however, i will say this, if he can pitch the way he did against the yankees in the last 4 innings, using his slider, forkball, changeup, curveball and throwing them for strikes, his fastball will be that much more dangerous.

but he still can't hold baserunners on, he throws a hissyfit if the defense lets him down, he's lethargic, nonchanlant and all around lazy. it used to be cute when he was mowing down great teams, now it's just annoying to watch. i hope he helps the sox this year, but i wouldn't mind seeing brandon replace him in 2007, whether or not he "get his **** together".

No one is going to want Freddy Garcia at $10 mil unless we pay most of the salary. Jose and Garland are staying. Vasquez is not really trade material. My guess is that the option on Buerhle is not picked saving $9.5 mil for next year and freeing up money for a Creded extension.

caulfield12
08-12-2006, 11:39 AM
There's no way Buehrle's not going to be here next year.

Your solution is just to let Buehrle go AND then have Garcia and Vazquez still around? No thanks.

It makes a whole lot of sense to pay Freddy Garcia $10 million to be a fifth starter and get rid of your number two...so we could keep Crede...who won't matter (it could be Fields for all I care) if we don't have enough starting pitching.

Now if there was someone you could guarantee would be a #2 starter and not an AJ Burnett-like bust (when's the last time the Sox gave a multi-year deal to a starter outside the organization since acquiring Ritchie and Navarro?), but Mark has been too important to this organization to just let go with nothing in return. If he pitches the way he has been for the next 9 starts, then consider it, but he's always gotten out of these "funks" before, there's no reason to believe he won't now.