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View Full Version : 8/9/06 *Official* Close but no cigar Postgame Thread


SouthSide_HitMen
08-09-2006, 10:29 PM
Glad they battled back but we need more than moral victories the rest of the way. Hopefully they will have the momentum tomorrow and take the series before DeToilet comes to town.

VivaOzzie
08-09-2006, 10:30 PM
...psyche. Sorry RJ.

Too bad we couldnt close out the comeback either. Hell of an effort though lets keep this up!

Green
08-09-2006, 10:30 PM
Pods should've bunted.

This one hurts.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-09-2006, 10:30 PM
DAMN....like the effort at the end but it has to be there all 9 innings.

Pitching better get back to center...this 4-6 run deficit bull**** is killing us EARLY.

slobes
08-09-2006, 10:30 PM
Gahhh we gave them a run. Not much else to say. Leaving the bases loaded in the 7th is really looking pretty big right now.

Kwrubac
08-09-2006, 10:30 PM
ugh poor pitching + inability to score runs with no outs = pathetic...At least they showed some life at the end..

sox230
08-09-2006, 10:30 PM
Biggest ESPN tease ever!!! Oh yeah, and I HATE SCOTT PODSEDNIK...HE DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Mr. White Sox
08-09-2006, 10:31 PM
:hawk
"Bases loaded, nooooooooobody out!"

:hawk
"Golden opportunity."

That's all I have to say about that.

If they would've completely come back, this would've been one of the best games I've seen since, oh, umm, yesterday?

Parrothead
08-09-2006, 10:31 PM
Why not pinch hit for Anderson or Pods with MAC. Especially Pods since has been slumping.

cleanwsox
08-09-2006, 10:32 PM
I love the life they showed in the late innings but unfortunately it was too little too late. Go get em tomorrow and we can keep our 2 out of 3 going.

MrX
08-09-2006, 10:32 PM
Nothing we haven't seen before. Our starting pitcher puts us in a hole, the bullpen gives up an extra garbage run or two that winds up being the difference, and the offense decides to sleep until late in the game.

That base loaded, no outs **** up was terrible.

With Pods and Pablo the Sox may have the two worst leadoff hitters in baseball right now.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:33 PM
Ummmm...because that cutter is absolutely deadly to LH hitters.

Mr. White Sox
08-09-2006, 10:33 PM
Why not pinch hit for Anderson or Pods with MAC. Especially Pods since has been slumping.
Mackowiak > Pods

however...

ANY RIGHT HANDER AGAINST RIVERA > Mackowiak > Pods

That's what hurts.

Well, maybe Alomar < Pods...

JB98
08-09-2006, 10:33 PM
Why not pinch hit for Anderson or Pods with MAC. Especially Pods since has been slumping.

Definitely the right decision to leave BA in the game. Rivera is murder on lefties. And BA got on base. He was lucky to get on, but luck counts.

No moral victories at this stage of the season. This was a bad night for us.

Malgar 12
08-09-2006, 10:33 PM
Gahhh we gave them a run. Not much else to say. Leaving the bases loaded in the 7th is really looking pretty big right now.

bases loaded no outs...

kwolf68
08-09-2006, 10:33 PM
Team has a whole bunch of fight in them and that will keep them in this thing all year, but if the pitching does not improve we are in trouble.

Garland was bordering on very good and the Cabrera homer wasn't a bad pitch. The ump was terrible in the 5th inning blowing calls on Jeter and Abreu, but Garland served up cheese after that. Maybe he lost his focus, but he did not look good after that ump crap in the 5th.

Riske could have also done better.

This offense is the best in baseball and we are currently in third in our division and now behind two teams for the wildcard. Best offense in baseball = NOT A DAMN THING.

It's the pitching stupid.

slobes
08-09-2006, 10:34 PM
Why not pinch hit for Anderson or Pods with MAC. Especially Pods since has been slumping.

Well you don't pinch hit for Anderson because Mariano's better against lefties than righties [see Jim Thome AB]. I think if Ozzie woulda wanted Mac in there instead of Pods, he would have pinch hit with him instead of Pods whenever Pods pinch hit (8th inning I think?).

MrX
08-09-2006, 10:34 PM
Why not pinch hit for Anderson or Pods with MAC. Especially Pods since has been slumping. Because he's a lefty and he almost single handedly killed the team yesterday.

samram
08-09-2006, 10:34 PM
Ummmm...because that cutter is absolutely deadly to LH hitters.

Right.

Anyway, great comeback by the offense. As seems to be the case, putting two decent starts together by the SPs is just too damn hard.

Parrothead
08-09-2006, 10:35 PM
Mackowiak > Pods

however...

ANY RIGHT HANDER AGAINST RIVERA > Mackowiak > Pods

That's what hurts.

Well, maybe Alomar < Pods...

Sometimes you have to go against the numbers.....Pods has been horrible what makes you think that he would do any better against Riveria. Why not try someone who is hitting the ball no matter if he is lefty or righty.

billyvsox
08-09-2006, 10:35 PM
What really makes the bases loaded no outs no runs thing hurt is that is was RON VILLONE pitching...he is horrible.

Green
08-09-2006, 10:35 PM
Let's hope Javy puts up a quality start tomorrow

Mr. White Sox
08-09-2006, 10:35 PM
by the way, you can't blame the ump for the Sox losing tonight.

EVERYONE got squeezed at inopportune moments (including Farnsworth + Rivera), and Gorman has no strike zone judgment whatsoever.

Fire Gorman.

slobes
08-09-2006, 10:36 PM
Let's hope Javy puts up a quality start tomorrow

Win the series against the Yankees; I'm thinking going into the series most of us would have been pretty content with that.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:36 PM
I just think the Yankees have too strong a line-up offensively to be held off, and they have much better starting pitching than Boston.

We won't be behind Boston for the WC, we'll be tied, right, even if they win tonight, which isn't a sure thing with them leading the Royals by only one.

Minnesota...if Liriano comes back, will definitely be a force, but I just don't know how they can stay in it with Guerrier and Garza in their rotation for an extended period of time. They definitely could have folded up their tents on Monday night after the Liriano knockout but came back strong and have now won 6 of their last 7.

doctorlecter
08-09-2006, 10:36 PM
Let's see... Iguchi breaks up a no-no in the seventh and end up with a three-hit night!!! Go gooch!!!

Brian26
08-09-2006, 10:37 PM
Was anyone rooting for a Thome walk to get PK up there for the 2nd night in a row against Rivera, ending in a walk-off grandslam to win the game?

SouthSide_HitMen
08-09-2006, 10:38 PM
Gahhh we gave them a run. Not much else to say. Leaving the bases loaded in the 7th is really looking pretty big right now.

AJ needed to take a pitch there - he is too anxious and a walk was a hit at that point. This is the second day in a row the White Sox scored nothing with bases loaded and nobody out.

The offense needs to execute. And I agree about the Podsednik comment - have him bunt if you are not going to pinch hit for him.

Tough loss since they almost (and should have) tied it.

I don't like the matchup tomorrow as Moose is their best pitcher (the way Big Bird is pitching though he looked great tonight). The offense will need to execute and make their breaks tomorrow if the White Sox want to take this series.

salty99
08-09-2006, 10:39 PM
Was anyone rooting for a Thome walk to get PK up there for the 2nd night in a row against Rivera, ending in a walk-off grandslam to win the game?

I was rooting for a THome squeeze bunt walk off winner. :rolleyes:

PeoriaSoxFan
08-09-2006, 10:39 PM
What was Konerko doing tagging on that ball Dye hit? That obviously wasn't going to be caught, no matter what. Of course we had the opposite the other day, when Thome is tagging the plate and the ball was caught.We have at least 1 baserunning blunder per game. This shouldn't be happening.

MrX
08-09-2006, 10:39 PM
Why not try someone who is hitting the ball no matter if he is lefty or righty.
Mackowiak has been bad the last couple of games. He struck out and grounded into a no out, bases loaded double play yesterday before he was pulled.

Green
08-09-2006, 10:39 PM
If anyone (besides the pitching) is to get blamed for this loss, it's AJ.

Strikeout. (runner on first)
Groundout.
Pop out (bases loaded)
Soft line out (momentum our way). It was so bad he fell down!

Ah, oh well. I guess everyone has a bad game here and there. I have a good feeling about tomorrow!

kidmccarthy
08-09-2006, 10:40 PM
What no one has mentioned is clearly the biggest thing of the game. JD totally crushes a ball, Abreu has his back to the infield as the ball sails over his head, and Konerko only gets to third???? Clearly a base running gaffe that cost us the game. We must work on fundamentals every day. If I were Ozzie, everyone is working on scoring from 2nd base tommorrow. BAD BAD BAD!!!

kwolf68
08-09-2006, 10:40 PM
AJ had a bad night, but hitters can't be great every single night...but our pitchers can sure be sorry every night.

It's the pitching...when my team gets 6 runs in a baseball game and we lose I look in one direction.

Come on Javy...follow up the last game with another one tomorrow.

Green
08-09-2006, 10:40 PM
What no one has mentioned is clearly the biggest thing of the game. JD totally crushes a ball, Abreu has his back to the infield as the ball sails over his head, and Konerko only gets to third???? Clearly a base running gaffe that cost us the game. We must work on fundamentals every day. If I were Ozzie, everyone is working on scoring from 2nd base tommorrow. BAD BAD BAD!!!

I think Konerko was going to tag if he caught it.

Gavin
08-09-2006, 10:41 PM
- A.J. Pierzynski popped out to first
- A. Cintron popped out to first
- B. Anderson flied out to left center

Pretty much all that needs to be said.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:42 PM
If we can't do any better than sacrificing Anderson to 2nd with two outs, we're not as strong a team as we thought.

Ozuna, Mack, Cintron and Anderson have looked really bad recently...same with Pods. BA just got bailed out by Rivera. Iguchi woke up at least.

ZombieRob
08-09-2006, 10:42 PM
Bottom line Ozzie needs to have Pods bunt there to get B.A in the 2b ,which puts more pressure on Rivera to make good pitches and perhaps if Pods bunted were still playing right now .

kwolf68
08-09-2006, 10:43 PM
Another quiet lineup snafu I believe Ozzie made was Thome hitting third. Thome isn't a 3-hitter, he strikes out too much and against a lefty like Unit he should have been 4 or 5...PK or Dye should have hit third and they'd have been the last out against a pitcher not as good against righties.

I'd have LOVED to have had PK or Dye up there.

Hitmen77
08-09-2006, 10:43 PM
Late comeback only highlighted our bases loaded, nobody out failure. Last year, the Sox - with less talent on offense than this year - would have made sure that run scored somehow

if only Dye's hit had gone another foot....

kidmccarthy
08-09-2006, 10:43 PM
I think Konerko was going to tag if he caught it.

That is not acceptable when the fielder's back is towards the infield. Unless its Willy Mays out there, it will not be caught. Pauly Just read it wrong, and that really hurt.

doctorlecter
08-09-2006, 10:44 PM
What no one has mentioned is clearly the biggest thing of the game. JD totally crushes a ball, Abreu has his back to the infield as the ball sails over his head, and Konerko only gets to third???? Clearly a base running gaffe that cost us the game. We must work on fundamentals every day. If I were Ozzie, everyone is working on scoring from 2nd base tommorrow. BAD BAD BAD!!!

You have to look at the situation. In the unlikely event that the ball was caught, Paulie HAS TO be on third with less than two outs. If a great catch is made, everyone would be freaking out on how he didn't get to third. At this level of play, you have to assume that SOMEONE will get the job done with a runner on third and nobody out.

salty99
08-09-2006, 10:44 PM
You have to look at the situation. In the unlikely event that the ball was caught, Paulie HAS TO be on third with less than two outs. If a great catch is made, everyone would be freaking out on how he didn't get to third. At this level of play, you have to assume that SOMEONE will get the job done with a runner on third and nobody out.

Have you been paying attention this season?

JB98
08-09-2006, 10:44 PM
Late comeback only highlighted our bases loaded, nobody out failure. Last year, the Sox - with less talent on offense than this year - would have made sure that run scored somehow

if only Dye's hit had gone another foot....

But it still goes back to the pitching. Six runs is enough to win a game.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Yeah, and Pods just as easily could have bunted into a double play the way that's gone this season...I would have expected him to, at best, pop the cutter up in the air on a bunt and leave the runner at 1st.

ZombieRob
08-09-2006, 10:45 PM
BTW if the Sox want to go on the cheap and get a decent Slap Hitting Outfielder with speed Tyner is free agent next year unless Twinkies gave him an Ext.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Tough loss, hard to come back when you're down that runs against that lineup.

Nothing much to say, Twins won... hope Boston blows the lead late.

Lip

JB98
08-09-2006, 10:45 PM
That is not acceptable when the fielder's back is towards the infield. Unless its Willy Mays out there, it will not be caught. Pauly Just read it wrong, and that really hurt.

I agree. That ball was killed. There was no way on this earth it was going to be caught. Just a bad read, plain and simple.

TornLabrum
08-09-2006, 10:46 PM
I think I'm glad I went to the Jackhammers game tonight. At least they won. Naturally I got home just in time to see Thome's grounder to end the game.

doctorlecter
08-09-2006, 10:47 PM
Have you been paying attention this season?

Like it or not, that assumption is made by every third base coach...

kitekrazy
08-09-2006, 10:47 PM
I figured it all out.

We lost the game because Pods was in there.

Parrothead
08-09-2006, 10:47 PM
Bottom line the pitching was bad again and so was the execution. Bags juiced and no outs even a double play probably would have scored a run. Now, the Sox are in 3rd in the division and 1/2 back in the wild card. The fundementals have to improve for the Sox to make the playoffs.

salty99
08-09-2006, 10:48 PM
I figured it all out.

We lost the game because Pods was in there.




I feel the Teal police coming on

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:48 PM
It's ridiculous to keep nit-picking about the offense when Garland and Riske imploded.

If we were no-hit, would anyone be saying anything but the fact that it wouldn't have mattered if Garland had only given up one run, let alone five or six?

Our starting pitching continues to be the problem with this team, and everybody in the world now knows it...no secret there.

Tragg
08-09-2006, 10:49 PM
OUr starting pitching isn't up to spiff, but it is what it is...and what it is is not very good. Our hitting needs to carry us. Just like last year when the pitching needed to carry us through the tough times (even though the pitching was better than the hitting), the hitting will have to do it this year....and that lack of execution in a specific situation with the bases loaded and nobody out cost us a ball game.
I don't think a good record in one-run games is "luck"....I think it's execution. We aren't executing offensively like we did last year (and we aren't as good at the top of the pen either).

Where is Uribe? At least his swing at everything approach has some power to it (in contrast to Cintron's swing at everything approach).

kidmccarthy
08-09-2006, 10:50 PM
Our starting pitching continues to be the problem with this team, and everybody in the world now knows it...no secret there.
That is exactly why we have to nit-pick every single play. We know the pitching isnt there, so we must put every offensive, baserunning and defensive play under the microscope.

CLR01
08-09-2006, 10:50 PM
What no one has mentioned is clearly the biggest thing of the game. JD totally crushes a ball, Abreu has his back to the infield as the ball sails over his head, and Konerko only gets to third???? Clearly a base running gaffe that cost us the game. We must work on fundamentals every day. If I were Ozzie, everyone is working on scoring from 2nd base tommorrow. BAD BAD BAD!!!


That ball could have and probably should have been caught and then it rolled right to Wilson who got it in quickly. Looking back Konerko should not have been tagging but at the time it was the right move. If he gets doubled off of second everyone would be pissed.

Parrothead
08-09-2006, 10:50 PM
I think I'm glad I went to the Jackhammers game tonight. At least they won. Naturally I got home just in time to see Thome's grounder to end the game.

Should have went to the Windy City Thunderbolts.....they are up 13 to 9 over Evansville Otters in the 9th.

Note to everyone....Elvis night at the Thunderbolts in Crestwood tomorrow and $1 beer.

kitekrazy
08-09-2006, 10:51 PM
I feel the Teal police coming on

No kidding. I need to see that photo since I can't tell which one is teal on a 1400x900 res. monitor.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:51 PM
But have we seen ANY sign all season except a couple of games after the mandatory bunting practice that would lead any unbiased observer to think we would improve our fundamentals and execution the final 50 games of the season?

Why would it improve when this aspect of the team has been horrible all season? It's like the year when we seemingly made one baserunning blunder every game, you could count on it...especially Carlos Lee. Can't remember which year that was, maybe 2002.

salty99
08-09-2006, 10:52 PM
Bottom 9 4-3 Red Sox

kitekrazy
08-09-2006, 10:53 PM
Our starting pitching continues to be the problem with this team, and everybody in the world now knows it...no secret there.

The team as is may be good enough to see the postseason but if the starting pitching doesn't step up the playoffs will be an embarrassment.

Green
08-09-2006, 10:53 PM
At least the Tigers lost.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:54 PM
Papelbon blew the save Sunday, but I'm not counting on lightning striking Papelbon or Rivera down twice in one week...unless David Ortiz is somehow involved in the equation.

Parrothead
08-09-2006, 10:54 PM
I figured it all out.
We lost the game because Pods was in there.


Happy now ?:tealpolice::tealtutor:

southsideirish71
08-09-2006, 10:54 PM
3rd place sucks :angry:

This game reminded me of the 2004 Whitesox facing the Twinks around this time. Bases loaded and Carlos Lee strolling to the plate, falls over trying to hit a home run. Then repeats it later when we rally and are down only one run. KW is quoted in the paper later that week talking about how if he sees another person trying to hit a home run when all we need is a single he will throw up. I wonder what KW is thinking now.

Ozzie needs to learn when to pull a SP. Before he gives up the 6 or so runs would be nice. Garland didnt pitch well enough to start the 7th inning.

MrX
08-09-2006, 10:54 PM
AJ had a bad night, but hitters can't be great every single night...but our pitchers can sure be sorry every night.
If the offense show up earlier it's probably McCarthy to start the 7th and not Garland and Riske

Pods trying to bunt against Rivera is Pods down 0-2 after 2 pitches.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:55 PM
What's the last team to get past the first round of the playoffs with a team ERA hovering close to 4.7?

JB98
08-09-2006, 10:55 PM
That is exactly why we have to nit-pick every single play. We know the pitching isnt there, so we must put every offensive, baserunning and defensive play under the microscope.

Again, six runs is plenty to win. Believe it or not, we had some baserunning mistakes and failures in the clutch last year too. Those things aren't such a big deal when you're holding the opponent to two or three runs most nights.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 10:57 PM
Runner on 3rd, no outs against Papelbon.

Esteben German tripled. Thanks Billy Beane.

kitekrazy
08-09-2006, 10:57 PM
Happy now ?:tealpolice::tealtutor:

No.

whitesoxfan
08-09-2006, 10:58 PM
Well, hopefully the late comeback will give us momentum tomorrow, and hopefully the offense shows up 6 innings earlier tomorrow.

I'll definitely be happy with 2 of 3 from the Yanks. Let's go get a W tomorrow.

CLR01
08-09-2006, 10:59 PM
Runner on 3rd, no outs against Papelbon.

Esteben German tripled. Thanks Billy Beane.


Go discuss the Blow Sox in the TB forum. This is the WHITE SOX post game thread.

salty99
08-09-2006, 10:59 PM
Yeah we need to carry this momentum into tomorrow and jump on mussina early and often.

SluggersAway
08-09-2006, 11:03 PM
No kidding. I need to see that photo since I can't tell which one is teal on a 1400x900 res. monitor.

422 posts and you haven't figured out teal yet?

kitekrazy
08-09-2006, 11:04 PM
422 posts and you haven't figured out teal yet?

I guess I need to be more sarcastic.

SluggersAway
08-09-2006, 11:06 PM
I guess I need to be more sarcastic.

No, no, you really haven't figured out teal yet.

MrX
08-09-2006, 11:11 PM
Yeah we need to carry this momentum into tomorrow
That sounds familiar:smile:

chisoxfanatic
08-09-2006, 11:14 PM
Well, the positive to this game is definitely that it appears this team has restored the "fight" we so well knew from them when they won the World Series last year. It's just unfortunate that Garland got sqeezed on his strike zone on those two pitches (especially the one to Jeter).

Oh, well...We'll get them tomorrow! Let's win our fourth series in a row!

SluggersAway
08-09-2006, 11:17 PM
The "fight"? We were do for some hits. The pitching remains the problem. You can't blame the umpire.

DickAllen72
08-09-2006, 11:17 PM
Ok, now we need to win tomorrow and then sweep the Tigers. Yes, I said need.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2006, 11:18 PM
Caulfield:

That's what is so bizarre about this season and this team. A lot of these guys were here last season and when they needed to bunt, steal a base, advance a runner and so forth they'd 'get r' done.'

Now half of them can't even remember how to bunt.

I can't explain it. If I had the answer I'd send it to Ozzie. Just very, very frustrating that except for a week in April and three weeks in June this club has not come together. Something seems to be lacking.

It's not just the pitching...fundamentals are being botched since spring training, they can't execute when needed, since the All Star break they can't drive guys in from third with less then two outs, they're making errors...like I said it's just weird, bizarre call it whatever you want.

Lip

DeadMoney
08-09-2006, 11:20 PM
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but here's my thoughts:
Joe Crede is the man. We didn't win, but that's the fight, and heart, and passion that I'm looking for from this team. Garland, eh...I was saying on Monday that there should not have been as much criticizing of the umpiring, but today I'm far from that state of mind.

I think Garland struck out Abreau in that at-bat that resulted in a HR, not to mention others in other situations. Johnson was getting an extra 1-2 inches off of BOTH SIDES of the plate, while Garland not even getting the black - you make your own opinion. When the umpire began evening it up in the 7th, look what happened to Johnson. It wasn't even fair that Johnson had a no-hitter, because it seemed as if the umpire made up his mind that everything Johnson threw close would be a strike, whereas anything Garland thre close would be closely examined. It was a little frustrating, but sometimes that's the way it goes (although Hawk would let you believe it happens every night with the Sox).

EDIT: To may myself clear, I am more frustrated about what Johnson was getting as opposed to what Garland was not, because he was struggling at times, which leads to not getting some calls.

And now I'll add some that really bothers me and what I want (if possible):

I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hate Scott Podsednik and his reign with this team can end AS SOON AS POSSIBLE as far as I'm concerned!!! :angry: I'll say this though - Thank You Scott for last year, but I've gotten incredibly sick of your act.

On a side note - is Crawford a FA in the offseason? Because if not, my solution is resign Crede, and package Fields and others in SOME WAY to the Devil Rays for Crawford.

But then again, there's still a long way to go in this season and I think the last 2 nights show that the Sox have a lot of fight left in them.

kitekrazy
08-09-2006, 11:26 PM
Caulfield:

That's what is so bizarre about this season and this team. A lot of these guys were here last season and when they needed to bunt, steal a base, advance a runner and so forth they'd 'get r' done.'

Now half of them can't even remember how to bunt.

I can't explain it. If I had the answer I'd send it to Ozzie. Just very, very frustrating that except for a week in April and three weeks in June this club has not come together. Something seems to be lacking.

It's not just the pitching...fundamentals are being botched since spring training, they can't execute when needed, since the All Star break they can't drive guys in from third with less then two outs, they're making errors...like I said it's just weird, bizarre call it whatever you want.

Lip

The only answer I can think is they overachieved last season.

The AL is a lot tougher than last year as well.

SluggersAway
08-09-2006, 11:32 PM
It's not just the pitching...fundamentals are being botched since spring training, they can't execute when needed, since the All Star break they can't drive guys in from third with less then two outs, they're making errors...like I said it's just weird, bizarre call it whatever you want.

Lip

I wouldn't go that far, the fundamentals were not perfect last year, but we won because the pitching got it done and the offense came through winning 3-2 or 4-3.

You can't expect to win when your starting pitcher is giving up almost 5 runs a game through six innings on a consistent basis. You end up with players hitting for the highlight reel, but end up with pop-ups to center field. And, thus you start to lose 6-5 or 7-6.

The other problem is that Pods has not been the same player as he was the first half of last year. That puts a halt to Ozzie's smart ball pretty damn quickly.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2006, 11:32 PM
Kite:

DID THEY really overachieve?

Think about it...only three guys had what could be described as career years...Uribe, Politte and Cotts.

The A.L. is tougher this season because of the additions of Detroit and Minnesota to the mix but remember only four games seperated the #1 seeded White Sox last year from the 'wild card' Red Sox. Over 162 games that's not a lot.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to say why, I'd say a tired team due to a shorter post season and the natural human tendency to 'let down' subconsciously the season after a title. That's why they 'suddenly' can't bunt, can't steal a base, can't get a guy over. It's that little loss of concentration, that small lack of focus at a key moment that makes all the difference and even that may be a result of being mentally drained after last season.

I don't like that reasoning since other teams have made multiple playoff appearances but that's all I can come up with.

Bottom line they simply aren't sharp and haven't been for practically the entire season.

Lip

billyvsox
08-09-2006, 11:33 PM
Want to cheer up!!!

Go to Sons of Sam Horn and read the BoSox game thread.

Goodman6
08-09-2006, 11:34 PM
What was Konerko doing tagging on that ball Dye hit? That obviously wasn't going to be caught, no matter what. Of course we had the opposite the other day, when Thome is tagging the plate and the ball was caught.We have at least 1 baserunning blunder per game. This shouldn't be happening.

Could it be that Paulie was told to tag up by that genius that coaches 3rd base for us? Just asking a question.

MrX
08-09-2006, 11:34 PM
You want to see a stat that will make you sick

Pods and Pablo are 34 for 156 since July 1st:o:

Lip Man 1
08-09-2006, 11:34 PM
Slugger:

No the executions of fundamentals weren't perfect but they were damn sure better then this season particularly baserunning.

And I agree somewhat with your take on Pods and Ozzie Ball however in my opinion there are three or four other guys who can run in the lineup and for some reason Ozzie isn't doing it.

Lip

cbotnyse
08-09-2006, 11:35 PM
I was at that game and the atmosphere was amazing the last few innings. If we pulled it out, it would have been the best game of the year, IMO.

I love the heart of the comeback, especially after being no-hit for so long.

billyvsox
08-09-2006, 11:37 PM
Kite:

DID THEY really overachieve?

Think about it...only three guys had what could be described as career years...Uribe, Politte and Cotts.

The A.L. is tougher this season because of the additions of Detroit and Minnesota to the mix but remember only four games seperated the #1 seeded White Sox last year from the 'wild card' Red Sox. Over 162 games that's not a lot.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to say why, I'd say a tired team due to a shorter post season and the natural human tendency to 'let down' subconsciously the season after a title. That's why they 'suddenly' can't bunt, can't steal a base, can't get a guy over. It that little loss of concentration, that small lack of focus at a key moment that makes all the difference and even that may be a result of being mentally drained after last season.

I don't like that reasoning since other teams have made multiple playoff appearances but that's all I can come up with.

Bottom line they simply aren't sharp and haven't been for practically the entire season.

Lip

I agree LIPMAN...the addition of the Tigers to the mix has Efffed everything up, combined with the pathetic AL west were stuck with 4 teams battling for 2 spots. 2 very, very, very good teams will not be in the playoffs while 1 from the AL and 3 from the NL with WORSE records in EASIER divisions will.

It seems like something needs to be done with the scheduling to ensure this kind of discrepancy dosen't happen in the future.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2006, 11:37 PM
Well I had hoped Tuesday's night stirring win would carry them through for at least a little while but obviously that didn't happen.

Maybe they can take some late game momentum into Thursday.

We'll see.

Lip

Lip Man 1
08-09-2006, 11:40 PM
Billy:

The 1990 White Sox won 94 games and didn't make the playoffs because they were stuck behind the A's. That's the way it is...but that really doesn't explain the drastic inconsistencies the club has showed this year.

Something isn't right and I'm simply trying to guess at an answer.

Lip

ndu3t4
08-09-2006, 11:41 PM
Hey everyone, just my two cents on what I've been reading before i go to bed.

The offense is fine and I'm not gonna worry too much about Jon because the Yankees have put up six spots on a lot of guys.

I pretty much agree with the idea that Paulie was damned if he did, damned if he didn't on that fly ball. He's getting reamed for not scoring, but he would have taken more **** if it would have been caught and he didn't get to third.

Finally, This loss isn't the end of the world. Sure we're in 3rd place now but we have a lot of time to make it up. If we can come back to take 3 of 4 tonight will be a moot point. I like our chances with Javi coming off his last start, let's hope he can keep it up. We're also facing a righty, and we like righties.

Night.

billyvsox
08-09-2006, 11:44 PM
Billy:

The 1990 White Sox won 94 games and didn't make the playoffs because they were stuck behind the A's. That's the way it is...but that really doesn't explain the drastic inconsistencies the club has showed this year.

Something isn't right and I'm simply trying to guess at an answer.

Lip

LIP

Agreed with all the clubs poor play, but with a wild card and 4 teams in the playoffs, this shouldn't happen (Interleague and un-balanced schedule means unbalanced standings) 2 weeks ago we had the 2nd best record in ALL of baseball and were still fighting for our playoffs lives. Coming into today only 2 teams had more wins (DET and the Mets-1 more then us).

goon
08-09-2006, 11:47 PM
i was at the game, i don't feel the need to comment about the bases loaded blunder, aj's trouble at the plate, giving up all the runs...


but i do have a question for those of you who watched on tv. from my angle at the game it was tough to tell, but it sure as hell looked like garland was getting squeezed A LOT, especially in the abreu at-bat and pretty much every time against jeter. what do you guys think?

chisoxfanatic
08-09-2006, 11:48 PM
The only answer I can think is they overachieved last season.

Overachieved?!?! They won 99 games and virtually walked through the entire playoffs with virtually NO hitches! The phrase you were looking for is "getting it done!" That team did not overachieve (I don't care what Baseball Prospectus will tell ya!).

slobes
08-09-2006, 11:49 PM
i was at the game, i don't feel the need to comment about the bases loaded blunder, aj's trouble at the plate, giving up all the runs...


but i do have a question for those of you who watched on tv. from my angle at the game it was tough to tell, but it sure as hell looked like garland was getting squeezed A LOT, especially in the abreu at-bat and pretty much every time against jeter. what do you guys think?

:nod: . Granted I'm not gonna blame the game on the umps, but it did look like Garland was getting squeezed there.

Chips
08-09-2006, 11:52 PM
The only answer I can think is they overachieved last season.

The AL is a lot tougher than last year as well.

Yeah, we overachieved allright. :rolleyes: Going wire to wire and going 11-1 in the playoffs is really overachieving. :rolleyes: Give me a ****ing break.

The Dude
08-09-2006, 11:56 PM
Overachieved?!?! They won 99 games and virtually walked through the entire playoffs with virtually NO hitches! The phrase you were looking for is "getting it done!" That team did not overachieve (I don't care what Baseball Prospectus will tell ya!).

Ahh, I wouldn't even bother responding to a very intelligent post as kite's.:redneck
But hey, I'll join ya anyway!

Overachieved my ass! We were the best last year and played great as a team so there is no way you can ever take anything away from that. If you feel the need to look for ways to be negative even about a World Championship team, man you sure have problems!

The obvious difference this year is inconsistent pitching with a bad leadoff man. We are still on pace to win 95-96 games this season and who the **** would ever say that is not a successful season! Some people are never satisfied and feel the need to **** themselves with any bad run or even a helluva effort as the end of tonights game. We are a hot streak by us & a cold streak by Detroit for making a solid run at the division.

SluggersAway
08-09-2006, 11:58 PM
This time last year, we allowed the opponent to score more than five runs 29 times. This year we have allowed them to score more than five runs 40 times. This points to a problem with the pitching. Take a look at the game scores for last year compared to this year and you will see that "fundamentals" have not been the real problem as we have had plenty of runners crossing home plate, we are just also letting a few more of the opposing team cross as well.

Chips
08-09-2006, 11:58 PM
Ahh, I wouldn't even bother responding to a very intelligent post as kite's.:redneck
But hey, I'll join ya anyway!

Overachieved my ass! We were the best last year and played great as a team so there is no way you can ever take anything away from that. If you feel the need to look for ways to be negative even about a World Championship team, man you sure have problems!

The obvious difference this year is inconsistent pitching with a bad leadoff man. We are still on pace to win 95-96 games this season and who the **** would ever say that is not a successful season! Some people are never satisfied and feel the need to **** themselves with any bad run or even a helluva effort as the end of tonights game. We are a hot streak by us & a cold streak by Detroit for making a solid run at the division.

I am sure you put him on your ignore list after that. I did the same.

goon
08-10-2006, 12:01 AM
:nod: . Granted I'm not gonna blame the game on the umps, but it did look like Garland was getting squeezed there.


that's unfortunate, it really is ****ing unfortunate. the yankees have a talented lineup, i doubt abreu really needs the extra help from the umpire.



post script: there were too many yankee fans there and 95% of them were *******s.

chisoxfanatic
08-10-2006, 12:02 AM
This time last year, we allowed the opponent to score more than five runs 29 times. This year we have allowed them to score more than five runs 40 times. This points to a problem with the pitching. Take a look at the game scores for last year compared to this year and you will see that "fundamentals" have not been the real problem as we have had plenty of runners crossing home plate, we are just also letting a few more of the opposing team cross as well.

The Ozzieball "Fundamentals" sure have been lacking this year. We're not seeing Pods "stir the pot" atop the batting order nearly as much as he did last year. People are getting thrown out trying to steal or stretch singles into doubles (or doubles into triples) far more. They have become over-reliant of the home run now (circa 2000?). In addition, I'd say our defense isn't as solid as it was last year.

If we can get back to OZZIEBALL, we WILL win the World Series once again!

chisoxfanatic
08-10-2006, 12:04 AM
post script: there were too many yankee fans there and 95% of them were *******s.

What do you expect? I bet the vast majority of them are not even from the New York area and are just fans because they wanted to "latch on" to a perennial winner. Yankee fans just make me sick. I hope they hit a BIG bump that forces them to miss the playoffs this year.

goon
08-10-2006, 12:10 AM
What do you expect? I bet the vast majority of them are not even from the New York area and are just fans because they wanted to "latch on" to a perennial winner. Yankee fans just make me sick. I hope they hit a BIG bump that forces them to miss the playoffs this year.


gotta love it when yankee fans in the ninth inning, literally looking like they were about to wet their pants, then after the game telling sox fans to, "go home." it's rare from me to want to punch someone in the face, tonight was one of those nights.

MrRoboto83
08-10-2006, 12:13 AM
gotta love it when yankee fans in the ninth inning, literally looking like they were about to wet their pants, then after the game telling sox fans to, "go home." it's rare from me to want to punch someone in the face, tonight was one of those nights.

Yeah I noticed some of those fans who were going crazy earlier in the game, real quiet and nervous looking after that Crede HR.

MrRoboto83
08-10-2006, 12:14 AM
I also noticed a lot of so called "Yankee" fans not wearing any Yankee attire at tonights game.

chisoxfanatic
08-10-2006, 12:14 AM
gotta love it when yankee fans in the ninth inning, literally looking like they were about to wet their pants, then after the game telling sox fans to, "go home." it's rare from me to want to punch someone in the face, tonight was one of those nights.

I seriously hope the Red Sox win all nine of their remaining meetings. I have never had problems with Red Sox fans; but, Yankee fans are so arrogant! They think they own the world, and that the world owes them everything.

Earth to Yankee fans: You've won it 26 times. Shut up and share the wealth!

pczarapa
08-10-2006, 12:14 AM
Man, tough one tonight, thought for sure Thome would pull something out. Sickening to see us fall to third place, but at least the BoSox lost to the Royals in the bottom of the ninth. We really really need to win tomorrows game and take it to the Tigers.

MikeLove
08-10-2006, 12:23 AM
i was there tonight, at least almost everyone stuck around! even after the no hitter was broken up.

oh yeah the Yankee fans were definitely BAD tonight. It isn't even like we are rivals, why come to our park and act like *******s? I thought most of them were actually cubs fans at first, that is how pathetic they were. Where did they all come from?!?!

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 12:24 AM
Kite:

DID THEY really overachieve?

Think about it...only three guys had what could be described as career years...Uribe, Politte and Cotts.

The A.L. is tougher this season because of the additions of Detroit and Minnesota to the mix but remember only four games seperated the #1 seeded White Sox last year from the 'wild card' Red Sox. Over 162 games that's not a lot.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to say why, I'd say a tired team due to a shorter post season and the natural human tendency to 'let down' subconsciously the season after a title. That's why they 'suddenly' can't bunt, can't steal a base, can't get a guy over. It's that little loss of concentration, that small lack of focus at a key moment that makes all the difference and even that may be a result of being mentally drained after last season.

I don't like that reasoning since other teams have made multiple playoff appearances but that's all I can come up with.

Bottom line they simply aren't sharp and haven't been for practically the entire season.

Lip

You left out Garland and Contreras for having career years. How about Pods? Dye? Crede? Jenks?

It's tough for a World champion to repeat in baseball. There's more pressure, less desire, false sense of being superior. Look at the 05 Red Sox. To me they had no business being in the playoffs. They got there by out clubbing everyone else.

Outside of the Cardinals,Braves, Twins there aren't many teams making multiple playoff appearances. Interesting that those teams don't win World Series.

I'm surprised many Sox fans would be satisfied with only making the playoffs this season. Nothing more. That's so Wrigleyville.

They haven't looked good all year. If it continues everyone is hoping the light will turn on in Oct. I'd rather they stay home instead of getting swept convincingly. We don't have an ace on the staff right now.

If they keep the team intact for next season, I doubt the 07 Sox would play like this.

Even though that haven't looked sharp they are still winning a lot of games. Good teams will do that.

MrRoboto83
08-10-2006, 12:26 AM
i was there tonight, at least almost everyone stuck around! even after the no hitter was broken up.

oh yeah the Yankee fans were definitely BAD tonight. It isn't even like we are rivals, why come to our park and act like *******s? I thought most of them were actually cubs fans at first, that is how pathetic they were. Where did they all come from?!?!

I'm sure a lot of them were Flub fans.

TheOldRoman
08-10-2006, 12:28 AM
Kite:

DID THEY really overachieve?

Think about it...only three guys had what could be described as career years...Uribe, Politte and Cotts.

The A.L. is tougher this season because of the additions of Detroit and Minnesota to the mix but remember only four games seperated the #1 seeded White Sox last year from the 'wild card' Red Sox. Over 162 games that's not a lot.

If you put a gun to my head and forced me to say why, I'd say a tired team due to a shorter post season and the natural human tendency to 'let down' subconsciously the season after a title. That's why they 'suddenly' can't bunt, can't steal a base, can't get a guy over. It's that little loss of concentration, that small lack of focus at a key moment that makes all the difference and even that may be a result of being mentally drained after last season.

I don't like that reasoning since other teams have made multiple playoff appearances but that's all I can come up with.

Bottom line they simply aren't sharp and haven't been for practically the entire season.

Lip
I was at the game tonight, and here was my mood.
1-4 Innings :mad:
5th Inning - :angry:
6th - :angry:
7th - :angry:
8th - :supernana:
9th - :angry::angry::angry:

This was really a horrible game. They should have destroyed Johnson like they did last year. Johnson is not the same pitcher he once was. When your offense did absolutely nothing for 6 innings against mediocre pitching, you make it VERY hard to win games, no matter how your pitching is. Garland wasn't on tonight, but Johnson should have been on the bench in th 5th inning. This team right now is grossely underachieving. The further into the season we go, it appears like 2006 White Sox = 1986 Bears.

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 12:30 AM
Something isn't right and I'm simply trying to guess at an answer.

Lip

Something is telling me Ozzie is doing the same thing.

OakLawnDJ
08-10-2006, 12:32 AM
To make myself feel better about that loss, I watched my Sox Pride DVD... and you know what I realized halfway though?

I think Ozzie's lack of enthusiasm as of late might be having a negative effect on the team.

If you remember all of last year and in the beginning of this year when we held the lead, Ozzie was always enthusiastic and animated in the dugout. Lately, it seems like he just sits there. Maybe it's bringing the team down...?

I don't know... either way, it was disappointing that Thome couldn't do something better than a ground ball at the end. I would've almost preferred a pop-out so at least I could say he *hit* the ball... it seems like he either grounds out or homers... there's no grey-area with him lately.

Just my $0.02

MikeLove
08-10-2006, 12:35 AM
the more games i watch the more clear the problem is (besides the starters not shutting the league down) Look no further than our left fielders (leadoff hitters) I am convinced if we had someone getting on base at the top of the lineup, we would be in a lot better shape. Too bad there isn't and wasn't really anything we could do about it this year....

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 12:36 AM
LIP

Agreed with all the clubs poor play, but with a wild card and 4 teams in the playoffs, this shouldn't happen (Interleague and un-balanced schedule means unbalanced standings) 2 weeks ago we had the 2nd best record in ALL of baseball and were still fighting for our playoffs lives. Coming into today only 2 teams had more wins (DET and the Mets-1 more then us).

You left out free agency. It's the most damning thing in baseball for some teams.

TFLEM33
08-10-2006, 12:39 AM
As I read all these posts, there is one consistent theme. Negativity... C'mon guys... we were no-hit for six innings, down 7-0, and almost came back and won the game. I was encouraged by one thing... We gave ourselves a chance to win. I was at a Sunday night game in June when we scored six runs against Cleveland in the bottom of the ninth and actually brought the tying run to the plate. We came up short then also, but we gave ourselves a chance to win. No matter how bad the pitching has been over the last month, we are not getting blown out, and keeping things close. Garland pitched fairly well tonight except for the one big inning that seems to plague all of our starters. We are on our way over the hump. I have a feeling that we are going to run off several wins in a row real soon. We may not catch the Tigers in the Central, but we will be in the playoffs come October. To be corny and quote a song made popular by last year's World Series run, I haven't "stopped believing" yet.

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 12:40 AM
Yeah, we overachieved allright. Going wire to wire and going 11-1 in the playoffs is really overachieving. Give me a :rolleyes:****ing break.

For the sake of arguement (I didn't think they overachieved) your statement provides no evidence that it wasn't. :rolleyes:

So by your theory the 06 Detroit Tigers are not overachieving.


Plus luck falls into play as well.

TheOldRoman
08-10-2006, 12:41 AM
i was there tonight, at least almost everyone stuck around! even after the no hitter was broken up.

oh yeah the Yankee fans were definitely BAD tonight. It isn't even like we are rivals, why come to our park and act like *******s? I thought most of them were actually cubs fans at first, that is how pathetic they were. Where did they all come from?!?!
A few Yankees fans were sitting by us. One was a middle aged guy with his son and a friend. He started out the game sitting in center, and eventually found his friend down the third base line. All he did was compliment the park, say how awesome the atmosphere was, how the outfield concourse was the best thing ever, etc. Nice guy.
The assclown in front of me, however, made me angry. He turned around to talk to the middle-aged Yankees fan (who was visiting from New York), and started chatting. The young punk commented that less than half the crowd was White Sox fans. Apparently, half was Yankees fans, and another quarter was Red Sox fans who came to root against the Yankees.:rolleyes:
I got into their conversation and asked the kid what part of NY he was from. He sputtered that he wasn't from NY. I asked if he had ever been there - no. So this clown, who came in the 3rd and left in the 7th, was apparently a "die hard" New York fan even though he had never set foot in the state, and he only knew 5 players. "Aw, naw. The Giambino isn't playing. Is Milky in? What is his number?" That didn't stop him from saying Yankee Stadium was the best thing ever, much better than USCF.

MikeLove
08-10-2006, 12:41 AM
As I read all these posts, there is one consistent theme. Negativity... C'mon guys... we were no-hit for six innings, down 7-0, and almost came back and won the game. I was encouraged by one thing.......

me neither i dont even feel too bad after this loss, but more sooner than later we are going to need W's instead of faith and good feelings

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 12:48 AM
gotta love it when yankee fans in the ninth inning, literally looking like they were about to wet their pants,
Probably just like White Sox fans when some of the members of our bullpen are out there. It's nice to see someone elses bullpen struggle but they did it against a great lineup.
A.J. and others should be credited for part of the save in the horrible execution in the 7th.

MikeLove
08-10-2006, 12:51 AM
I liked the yankee fans that got to their seats late and left early behind me, 4 guys. One kept chanting "let's go tigers" one of them yelled "sit down chump!" after Johnson struck out PK or JD or someone good. They were definite tools but at least I think they were from out of town.

They only got overshadowed in toolism by the Sox fan a section over that yelled "FARNSWORTH YOU SUCK" between every other pitch for an inning. I couldnt agree more with what he was saying, but cmon if you are going to heckle one guy for 15 minutes, at least put in more variety than saying Farnsworth after YOU SUCK, or Farnsworth before YOU SUCK.

TheOldRoman
08-10-2006, 12:56 AM
I liked the yankee fans that got to their seats late and left early behind me, 4 guys. One kept chanting "let's go tigers" one of them yelled "sit down chump!" after Johnson struck out PK or JD or someone good. They were definite tools but at least I think they were from out of town.

They only got overshadowed in toolism by the Sox fan a section over that yelled "FARNSWORTH YOU SUCK" between every other pitch for an inning. I couldnt agree more with what he was saying, but cmon if you are going to heckle one guy for 15 minutes, at least put in more variety than saying Farnsworth after YOU SUCK, or Farnsworth before YOU SUCK.
Do you mean "Faarrrnsworth! Faarrrnsworth! Faarrrnsworth! YOU SUCK!"?
Those guys? They were sitting to my left. They get no points for originality, but they didn't tell lies.

MikeLove
08-10-2006, 01:00 AM
i was in sec 147. Yeah that chant is fine with me im not complaining about that, but there was a single guy in the same area that after seriously every other pitch would yell out "FARNSWORTH YOU SUCK" or "YOU SUCK FARNSWORTH" and that was it

CLR01
08-10-2006, 01:35 AM
I also noticed a lot of so called "Yankee" fans not wearing any Yankee attire at tonights game.


So?? The only Sox gear I wear to a Sox game is my jacket on cold evenings.

CaptainBallz
08-10-2006, 01:53 AM
Hey,

all I have to say is ..

great game..

and it was.

StillMissOzzie
08-10-2006, 01:58 AM
I thought one of the keys to the game was getting no more after the 1st 2 runs off of RJ and having the bases juiced with no outs and getting no more.
Pods continues to look terrible, a PH K and another K in the 9th.
I was encouraged by the appearance of Kyle "Hi Octane" Farnsworth. I think the Sox almost always light this guy up. Once a Cub, always a Cub.

At least with the loss tonight, I have a chance of seeing a victory tomorrow night - see my siggy for the sad details there!

SMO
:whiner:

MisterB
08-10-2006, 02:04 AM
You left out Garland and Contreras for having career years. How about Pods? Dye? Crede? Jenks?

Contreras - his numbers this year would indicate that last year was not a fluke
Pods - his batting average was a little higher than his career norms, but his power was way lower
Dye - he returned to the type of numbers he put up before his injury-riddled stint with Oakland
Crede - was Mr. Clutch down the stretch, but overall his numbers were consistent with his previous 2 years
Jenks - he was a rookie, so who's to say what his 'career norm' should be?

MrX
08-10-2006, 02:18 AM
As I read all these posts, there is one consistent theme. Negativity... C'mon guys... we were no-hit for six innings, down 7-0, and almost came back and won the game. I was encouraged by one thing... We gave ourselves a chance to win. I was at a Sunday night game in June when we scored six runs against Cleveland in the bottom of the ninth and actually brought the tying run to the plate. We came up short then also, but we gave ourselves a chance to win. No matter how bad the pitching has been over the last month, we are not getting blown out, and keeping things close. Garland pitched fairly well tonight except for the one big inning that seems to plague all of our starters. We are on our way over the hump. I have a feeling that we are going to run off several wins in a row real soon. We may not catch the Tigers in the Central, but we will be in the playoffs come October. To be corny and quote a song made popular by last year's World Series run, I haven't "stopped believing" yet.
It might be encouraging if we hadn't seen this before, we have, and it doesn't seem to translate into anything positive. The pitching has been bad all year, not just the last month.

Grzegorz
08-10-2006, 04:58 AM
DID THEY really overachieve?

Think about it...only three guys had what could be described as career years...Uribe, Politte and Cotts.

Bottom line they simply aren't sharp and haven't been for practically the entire season.

Lip
Absolutely spot on; these White Sox are not executing as well as they did last year. This lack of execution began at the beginning of the season. Many of the posts earlier this year centered on how the White Sox could "flip the switch" and start executing better. No such notion could be further from the truth.


I'm surprised many Sox fans would be satisfied with only making the playoffs this season. Nothing more. That's so Wrigleyville.

Right on, hoping to get to the playoff is an example of setting the bar too low. The White Sox management know this and I am sure the off season will be interesting to say the least.

-----

Listen, this was a single loss, magnified because of the comeback. The White Sox have to come back and win this series tonight.

Our relief staff has to stop the bleeding; if the White Sox get out with only five runs against them then we're probably talking about a White Sox win.

I wouldn't panic deal and start trading prospects for the flavor of the month. Not now and not in the off season. Cooler heads need to prevail. Priority number one should be starting pitching, followed by speed and defense.

-----

Ok, so tonight we need Javy to win to get us out of third place (go Blue Jays). If we do not get out of third place we're on borrowed time because of our dependency on other teams.

sox230
08-10-2006, 05:22 AM
I know that Jim Thome has had a great year, but what has he been like in clutch situations??? Normally, your 3 hitter should give you the best chance of getting on base, but I think Dye or Konerko would have had a better chance....against lefties, I wouldn't mind Dye batting third and Thome fifth.

jenn2080
08-10-2006, 07:05 AM
I was there last night and the Yankees fans were complete *******s. Along with one Cardinals fan who is lucky he dont have an indent of my ring on the side of his face. It was yet the 2nd most unpleasant game I have been to this year. I have been to numerous parks over the years and I have never walked into someone elses house and disrespected them. However these ****ing Yankees fans seem to think it is completely normal......from the train to the game *******S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We ended up leaving because it was just getting out of control. Unless it is a patio party I will not be going to games outside of my season package unless it is playoffs. At least you know who you are sitting next to.

cgaudin
08-10-2006, 07:08 AM
This was one of those few games in a season where I felt we had no chance whatsoever. It was fortunate that we made a game out of it at the end. Even though it was a loss, the players have to feel pretty good of the effort they put forth. They NEVER quit.

INSox56
08-10-2006, 07:43 AM
We didn't deserve the win even if we had....bases loaded NO OUTS and you don't score. That is absolutely inexcuseable. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE SEEN THAT THIS YEAR?!? The ****ing answer SHOULD BE zero

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 07:55 AM
Ok, so tonight we need Javy to win to get us out of third place (go Blue Jays). If we do not get out of third place we're on borrowed time because of our dependency on other teams.

I would go so far as being on borrowed time. The Sox control their own destiny because they have to deal with the Twins and Tigers. Every game is definitely important.

As for Javy, one game doesn't make him Cy Young. I wish I could have confidence but were are going against their ace and they are going against our 5th starter.

itsnotrequired
08-10-2006, 07:59 AM
Well, they certainly made it interesting at the end.

Sig update time...

Soxworldchamps
08-10-2006, 09:02 AM
Well, it was a close one...

I'm guessing that Brian Anderson won't be playing today because of the HBP. That looked painful.

Flight #24
08-10-2006, 09:11 AM
It's time to face facts: At this point in the season, the pitching is what it is: mediocre. Whether it's due to fatigue, luck, injury, or malaise at the departure of Hangar18 doesn't matter. The Sox have decent, but not great pitching with the exception of a couple of relievers (Jenks, Thornton).

That makes offensive execution all the more critical. What hurts about this loss is that 2 key "team leaders" did not appear to be mentally into the game in key situations.

#1 - Paulie HAS to score on that double. The fielder's back was to the infield, and he absolutely should have been able to read that the ball was over his head.

#2 - AJ has to get the run in. But what really hurts there isn't that he failed (which will at times happen), it's that he seemed to be trying to tie the game up with one swing (and a 5-run deficit). Against a guy who obviously couldn't find the plate. Villone did not throw a single strike to him - he swung at a low/outside pitch and then he almost knocked himself over swinging at another ball. In that situation - you have to MAKE the pitcher throw strikes or take the walk/RBI.

It's that mental mistake that's plagued the Sox this year IMO. And if they don't get it fixed, they'll be home when they should be in the postseason despite the slide of the staff.

Dan H
08-10-2006, 09:12 AM
It's ridiculous to keep nit-picking about the offense when Garland and Riske imploded.

If we were no-hit, would anyone be saying anything but the fact that it wouldn't have mattered if Garland had only given up one run, let alone five or six?

Our starting pitching continues to be the problem with this team, and everybody in the world now knows it...no secret there.

I agree with this. We can look at any game, and see that execution can be better in plenty of spots. But it's really hard to go on a long winning streak when your starting pitching puts this much pressure on the offense. I am not going to knock Garland, he's been good lately. But would it hurt the pitching staff to keep the opposition to three runs or less once in a while?

Now it's the third place White Sox and they need Vazquez to win to take the series. Is a sixth inning disaster right around the corner? Is another series loss just around the corner? It is going to be very tough going to get the wild card. The Sox now have to go past two teams to get the division. They are still struggling and Detroit, Minnesota and the Yankees keep rolling.

caulfield12
08-10-2006, 09:24 AM
I don't think Uribe even had what I would call a career year last season...defensively, yes...definitely.

But he had two long stretches in 2004 when he was one of the most dangerous hitters in the league. Streaky? Like Carlos Lee in Wrigley.

And he had a bundle of RBI's last season...but, if you averaged 2004 and 2005, you would probably get pretty close to what he's doing this season, maybe the average is a little low.

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 09:41 AM
It's time to face facts: At this point in the season, the pitching is what it is: mediocre.

I'd settle for mediocre right now.

Jerko
08-10-2006, 09:47 AM
We had a few ****head Yankee fans in our section, but for the most part they were ok. Some drunk SOX fan was on my ass because "I looked like I was from New York" in his drunken eyes, even though I had on a Sox hat and t-shirt. Some people just shouldn't be let loose in pubic or allowed to drink. As for the game, the plot is getting old. Saw the same game 3 times now; vs. Cleveland, Houston, and now the Yankees. Getting spanked for 8 innings and losing by one or 2 at the end is getting tiresome.

MarySwiss
08-10-2006, 10:05 AM
The day that spring training tickets go on sale in Tucson, the city holds an event called "Tucson First" and tickets are available at 10 am at Electric Park. (This is two hours before they become available by phone or over the Internet.) This spring, I drove down there and arrived at 6 am because I wanted to score Sox/Cubs tickets. Right behind me in line was a girl and two guys, all of whom looked to be around mid-twenties. Their entire conversation--at the top of their voices and interspersed with countless "Yo, dudes"--was pretty much inane, but the girl really killed me. She was from Tucson and had gotten there four hours early because she wanted to buy D'Backs vs Yankees tickets. She had never been to New York in her life, but she "just loved" the Yankees, because they're "so cool." Oh and by the way, she was "in love" with Jeter and would "die" if she couldn't get his autograph. How I kept from screaming, I will never know.

I don't know what it is about the Yankees, but I guess there are a lot of those people out there. Scary.

BTW, despite her passion for Jeter, when Gonzo showed up, she started talking about how much she loved him, too.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 10:14 AM
My, my. So now the Sox faithful are complaining that Joey Cora DID NOT send Konerko home, and that Podsednik WAS NOT hacking at the first pitch in the 9th.:o:

When you load the bases with no outs and you can't score even one of them you don't deserve to win. It's that simple.

0o0o0
08-10-2006, 10:24 AM
1. Moral victory? A loss is a loss.

2. Joe Crede becomes more of a stud every day.

3. What the hell is with Pods?

4. Tonight is another one of those "biggest game of the year" nights.

tebman
08-10-2006, 10:25 AM
The day that spring training tickets go on sale in Tucson, the city holds an event called "Tucson First" and tickets are available at 10 am at Electric Park. (This is two hours before they become available by phone or over the Internet.) This spring, I drove down there and arrived at 6 am because I wanted to score Sox/Cubs tickets. Right behind me in line was a girl and two guys, all of whom looked to be around mid-twenties. Their entire conversation--at the top of their voices and interspersed with countless "Yo, dudes"--was pretty much inane, but the girl really killed me. She was from Tucson and had gotten there four hours early because she wanted to buy D'Backs vs Yankees tickets. She had never been to New York in her life, but she "just loved" the Yankees, because they're "so cool." Oh and by the way, she was "in love" with Jeter and would "die" if she couldn't get his autograph. How I kept from screaming, I will never know.

I don't know what it is about the Yankees, but I guess there are a lot of those people out there. Scary.

BTW, despite her passion for Jeter, when Gonzo showed up, she started talking about how much she loved him, too.
My daughter and I were at the game last night and sat next to an older couple from New York. Nice folks -- Yankee fans who plan their vacations around the Yankees' schedule so they can visit other cities. It was fun talking baseball with him and trading good-natured jokes about our respective teams. They both genuinely enjoyed themselves and appreciated the crowd and the ballpark's atmosphere.

He asked me about Wrigley Field, said they wanted to see it before the left Chicago. I gave him basic directions and we talked about different teams' fan support. The Yankees and Cubs both have national followings, but we both agreed that the Yankees have earned it with generations of success. The Cubs' following is bizarre, and based only on their ballpark and the Tribune/WGN's golden reach. I joked that Wrigley Field apparently has healing powers because that's the only reason anyone would go there. He laughed and said he'd heard that too.

The Yankees make me crazy, but they deserve their national following. The nice folks I met last night reminded me of that.

Lip Man 1
08-10-2006, 12:10 PM
Kite:

Crede's numbers are better this year than last seasons. Garland and Contreras have stellar won/lost records (even given their inflated ERA's)

To me they didn't have career years last season either.

Jenks has only blown two save opportunities this season so last year wasn't a career year for him either.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 12:21 PM
Kite:

Crede's numbers are better this year than last seasons. Garland and Contreras have stellar won/lost records (even given their inflated ERA's)

To me they didn't have career years last season either.

Jenks has only blown two save opportunities this season so last year wasn't a career year for him either.

LipDespite popular myth, no one on the Sox last year really had seasons markedly better than their best previous years. Above average, yes, but not ridiculously so. The exception is guys like Cotts and Jenks, who either were young players still expected to be improving or those who had little or no previous history.

maurice
08-10-2006, 12:29 PM
I looked at this popular claim closely and, IMHO, the only Sox players who arguably had "career years" in 2005 were Politte and Hermanson. Young players are supposed to improve in their mid- to late-20s. Contreras simply rebounded under a better pitching coach.

stl_sox_fan
08-10-2006, 12:33 PM
#1 - Paulie HAS to score on that double. The fielder's back was to the infield, and he absolutely should have been able to read that the ball was over his head.


I thought ESPN had forgotten to credit Paulie's run after JD's double. When I saw him on third during Crede's AB I was stunned. I don't know if Joey gave him the stop sign or if Paulie was at 2nd waiting to tag if it was caught. Joey waves almost everyone home...at the last second in the 9th he put the brakes on BA, which sent him crawling back to the bag. Not to say Paulie's baserunning hiccup was the difference in the game, but numbers wise it would have been 1 more run at least.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 12:35 PM
I looked at this popular claim closely and, IMHO, the only Sox players who arguably had "career years" in 2005 were Politte and Hermanson. Young players are supposed to improve in their mid- to late-20s. Contreras simply rebounded under a better pitching coach.Politte had a 2.42 ERA in 2001 and several sub-4.0 ERA seasons, so while his 2.0 ERA in 2005 was a career best, given the variability of relievers' ERAs, it's not that far out. Hermanson also had several very good previous seasons, so you can say much the same thing about him. Plus, Hermanson really pitched only half a year, so you might expect a farther departure from his expected performance.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 12:37 PM
I thought ESPN had forgotten to credit Paulie's run after JD's double. When I saw him on third during Crede's AB I was stunned. I don't know if Joey gave him the stop sign or if Paulie was at 2nd waiting to tag if it was caught. Joey waves almost everyone home...at the last second in the 9th he put the brakes on BA, which sent him crawling back to the bag. Not to say Paulie's baserunning hiccup was the difference in the game, but numbers wise it would have been 1 more run at least.I think PK would have been a dead duck. It was too shallow. If there were 2 outs it might be a different decision, but with no outs and down by a lot you don't send a runner in that situation. BA also would have been thrown out by a mile.

stl_sox_fan
08-10-2006, 12:38 PM
I looked at this popular claim closely and, IMHO, the only Sox players who arguably had "career years" in 2005 were Politte and Hermanson. Young players are supposed to improve in their mid- to late-20s. Contreras simply rebounded under a better pitching coach.

Garland had what I think would be called a career year. Wins(18), WHIP(1.17), ERA(3.50), CG,ShO(3).
Unless someone else mentioned that already. Getting into this thread a bit late.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 12:42 PM
Garland had what I think would be called a career year. Wins(18), WHIP(1.17), ERA(3.50), CG,ShO(3).
Unless someone else mentioned that already. Getting into this thread a bit late.He had some pretty good seasons before, too. Not so much in wins, but other categories. Besides, Garland is still in the category of young player expected to be improving. People forget that he broke in at age 20, so he was putting together "mediocre" 12-win seasons in the major leagues when other pitchers his age were honing their skills in AA.

kitekrazy
08-10-2006, 12:42 PM
Kite:

Crede's numbers are better this year than last seasons. Garland and Contreras have stellar won/lost records (even given their inflated ERA's)

To me they didn't have career years last season either.

Jenks has only blown two save opportunities this season so last year wasn't a career year for him either.

Lip

I was using 2004 as a comparison, not 2006.

When they got Contreras, it was trading a washed up pitcher (Loaiza)for another one. Contrera became the ace toward the end of the season.

Garland was the 5th starter. It's not every day your 5th starter wins 18 games.

Jenks was a gamble last season. He turned out to be the closer. Not bad for a guy who was proably close to never making it in the majors.

Last year everything just went so right. There's no explanation sometimes for success or failures. It's baseball.

I think that magic is happening in Detroit. I don't see them playing like that next season. Who thought Cleveland would be in 4th?

This is an interesting year. You'd think the Sox were 21 games under .500 instead of over. It's strange this year in baseball that with this record you are 8 games out and in 3rd place. The poor play is often magnified.

I'm surprised they have a record like this they way they are playing.

Take a look at Morrisey's latest article. Nice read.

stl_sox_fan
08-10-2006, 12:43 PM
I think PK would have been a dead duck. It was too shallow. If there were 2 outs it might be a different decision, but with no outs and down by a lot you don't send a runner in that situation. BA also would have been thrown out by a mile.

Are you talking about JD's double off the wall as shallow? I totally agree Brian would have ended the game one batter earlier if he tried to score.

On a separate note, man that bases loaded no out and no runs scored hurt! Bright side - Yanks bullpen has got to be tired today. Hopefully no Rivera, although Sox seem to hit him well during the past two series.

Keep your fingers crossed for Javy today.

stl_sox_fan
08-10-2006, 12:46 PM
He had some pretty good seasons before, too. Not so much in wins, but other categories. Besides, Garland is still in the category of young player expected to be improving. People forget that he broke in at age 20, so he was putting together "mediocre" 12-win seasons in the major leagues when other pitchers his age were honing their skills in AA.

Good point, I keep forgetting he's in his 7th season and turns 27 next month. Kudos to him for getting to the "show" early.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 12:47 PM
Are you talking about JD's double off the wall as shallow? I totally agree Brian would have ended the game one batter earlier if he tried to score.

On a separate note, man that bases loaded no out and no runs scored hurt! Bright side - Yanks bullpen has got to be tired today. Hopefully no Rivera, although Sox seem to hit him well during the past two series.

Keep your fingers crossed for Javy today.The "too shallow" should have been in teal (I guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought), as in "anything inside the park is too shallow for Konerko".:cool:

stl_sox_fan
08-10-2006, 12:51 PM
The "too shallow" should have been in teal (I guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought), as in "anything inside the park is too shallow for Konerko".:cool:

Gotcha!

BTW, I was just watching the highlights on mlb.com, man Crede's HR sounded better by the Hawk instead of the ESPN crew. Hawk is going to have a Todd O'Conner (http://snl.jt.org/char.php?i=621) like heart attack if he keeps screaming like that.

maurice
08-10-2006, 12:53 PM
Politte had a 2.42 ERA in 2001

. . . in 26 IP. Other than that, his MLB ERAs are 6.32, 7.13, 3.66, 3.67, 5.66, 4.38, and this year's 8.70 (which averages out to 4.39). If, at the end of his MLB career (which may be now), he's asked to identify his "career year," it certainly will be 2005.

Hermanson is a special case, because he's had so many different roles over his career. Though he obviously pitched more innings as a starter / swing man, he never won more than 14 games. He was pretty good as a starter in Montreal for a couple of years, but his seasons as a reliever don't come close to a 2.04 ERA / 34 saves, notwithstanding the limited innings.

maurice
08-10-2006, 01:01 PM
Last year everything just went so right.

Except for the fact that the Sox DH / #3 hitter / future HOFer spent most of the season on the DL (Thomas)...and the backup DH / #3 hitter stopped hitting in the 2nd half (Everett)...and the #4 starter went on the DL before being essentially replaced by a rookie (Hernandez)...and the closer sucked (Takatsu)...and the backup closer got hurt (Hermanson)...and the leadoff hitter suffered a leg injury in the 2nd half that prevented him from stealing bases and reduced him to a 1-tool player (Podsednik)...and the 3B suffered a back injury that caused him to miss several games (Crede)...and the backup catcher missed the entire season with an injury (Davis).

Lots of bad thing happened to the Sox over the course of the 2005 season. They are just easily forgotten in the heat of the WS victory.

chisoxfanatic
08-10-2006, 01:15 PM
It was yet the 2nd most unpleasant game I have been to this year.

Which was the most?

chisoxfanatic
08-10-2006, 01:17 PM
The day that spring training tickets go on sale in Tucson, the city holds an event called "Tucson First" and tickets are available at 10 am at Electric Park. (This is two hours before they become available by phone or over the Internet.) This spring, I drove down there and arrived at 6 am because I wanted to score Sox/Cubs tickets. Right behind me in line was a girl and two guys, all of whom looked to be around mid-twenties. Their entire conversation--at the top of their voices and interspersed with countless "Yo, dudes"--was pretty much inane, but the girl really killed me. She was from Tucson and had gotten there four hours early because she wanted to buy D'Backs vs Yankees tickets. She had never been to New York in her life, but she "just loved" the Yankees, because they're "so cool." Oh and by the way, she was "in love" with Jeter and would "die" if she couldn't get his autograph. How I kept from screaming, I will never know.

I wouldn't have had as much restraint as you. I've never been a physical individual; however, my mouth would NOT stay shut. I can't stand people who are fans of a team just because a player is "soooooooo cute!" Those type of pseudo-fans make me wanna puke.

Flight #24
08-10-2006, 01:30 PM
Except for the fact that the Sox DH / #3 hitter / future HOFer spent most of the season on the DL (Thomas)...and the backup DH / #3 hitter stopped hitting in the 2nd half (Everett)...and the #4 starter went on the DL before being essentially replaced by a rookie (Hernandez)...and the closer sucked (Takatsu)...and the backup closer got hurt (Hermanson)...and the leadoff hitter suffered a leg injury in the 2nd half that prevented him from stealing bases and reduced him to a 1-tool player (Podsednik)...and the 3B suffered a back injury that caused him to miss several games (Crede)...and the backup catcher missed the entire season with an injury (Davis).

Lots of bad thing happened to the Sox over the course of the 2005 season. They are just easily forgotten in the heat of the WS victory.

By comparison, this team has had relatively good luck with respect to injuries. But has suffered from crappy performance and piss-poor execution. What was scrappy & fundamental is suddenly crappy & lackadaisical. What the **** happened?

samram
08-10-2006, 01:50 PM
By comparison, this team has had relatively good luck with respect to injuries. But has suffered from crappy performance and piss-poor execution. What was scrappy & fundamental is suddenly crappy & lackadaisical. What the **** happened?
Here's what happened- the offense, which wasn't asked to do much last year now has a lot of pressure on it to produce. Last year, get two in the first, add one in the fourth, one in the sixth, game over. This year, they go into the dugout down a run, Pods can't get on and they go 1-2-3, then they come back after the second inning down 3-0 and suddenly they have to change their approach a little bit. The pitching is the difference. It sucks to have to play catch-up almost every night.

Flight #24
08-10-2006, 01:53 PM
Here's what happened- the offense, which wasn't asked to do much last year now has a lot of pressure on it to produce. Last year, get two in the first, add one in the fourth, one in the sixth, game over. This year, they go into the dugout down a run, Pods can't get on and they go 1-2-3, then they come back after the second inning down 3-0 and suddenly they have to change their approach a little bit. The pitching is the difference. It sucks to have to play catch-up almost every night.

Works both ways. Last year, I recall the pitchers going into the early innings with a run or 2 & knowing if they at least kept it close, the O would scratch out 1-2 more. This year, there have been way too many wasted opportunities. Not giving the pitching a pass, but I don't buy the "pressure" argument. It's a lack of offensive execution, plain & simple.

Ol' No. 2
08-10-2006, 02:15 PM
Works both ways. Last year, I recall the pitchers going into the early innings with a run or 2 & knowing if they at least kept it close, the O would scratch out 1-2 more. This year, there have been way too many wasted opportunities. Not giving the pitching a pass, but I don't buy the "pressure" argument. It's a lack of offensive execution, plain & simple.It does go both ways. It's a lot easier on a pitcher to work on holding a lead (even a small one) than it is to try to hold the other team scoreless until your offense wakes up. OTOH, it's tough to play smallball when you're down by 6 runs. The Sox are scoring a lot of runs on average, but they're back to being inconsistent, just like 2004.

cgaudin
08-10-2006, 05:30 PM
It does go both ways. It's a lot easier on a pitcher to work on holding a lead (even a small one) than it is to try to hold the other team scoreless until your offense wakes up. OTOH, it's tough to play smallball when you're down by 6 runs. The Sox are scoring a lot of runs on average, but they're back to being inconsistent, just like 2004.

How soon we forget. The white Sox were an offensive juggernaut in 2004 as well. That got us what...83 wins? They were also a power offense, had no ability to move over runners, much like most of this year. Then again how many more ball games could they have won with the stout pitching 4.91 team ERA??? It's plain and simple, if the top two guys in the lineup can average about a .400 OBP and the pitching can lower the ERA to about 4.00, the Sox will be in the post-season. Nothin' else matters.