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View Full Version : Rick Morrissey column - How spoiled are we


Law11
08-09-2006, 09:14 AM
Some good points.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060809morrissey,1,7184013.column?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

daveeym
08-09-2006, 09:18 AM
Bah same crap as usual. Sox fans are only happy when miserable. 30 reporters around ozzie means the fans are miserable? Morrisey obviously has been reading all the dark cloud posts here.

kobo
08-09-2006, 09:19 AM
Can't really argue with much of what he wrote. While I have not necessarily given up on the team, I have been upset with the way they have played over the last couple of months. And I only get upset because I know that this team should be playing much better than it is. I really hope last night's game was the spark they needed to get on a roll here and start playing baseball like I know they can.

Dan H
08-09-2006, 09:24 AM
Some good points and some bad ones. Success spoils any fan base. Once you taste a championship, you want another one. That's natural.

The Sox reached a high of 10 games out on Monday. Ask any Cub fan whose team is 13 games out about their optimism. We were getting a bad rap there.

2005 was great and wiped out many bad memories. But as a lifelong Sox fan, I sometimes have a hard time having some knee jerk reactions. So many things have gone wrong for decades. Fans are human like anyone else. Sportswriters forget that.

The main thing is attendance is great, and many Sox fans, pessimists or not, are still pulling for the club. I've never seen a Tribune story praising Sox fans.

TornLabrum
08-09-2006, 09:29 AM
Some good points and some bad ones. Success spoils any fan base. Once you taste a championship, you want another one. That's natural.

The Sox reached a high of 10 games out on Monday. Ask any Cub fan whose team is 13 games out about their optimism. We were getting a bad rap there.

2005 was great and wiped out many bad memories. But as a lifelong Sox fan, I sometimes have a hard time having some knee jerk reactions. So many things have gone wrong for decades. Fans are human like anyone else. Sportswriters forget that.

The main thing is attendance is great, and many Sox fans, pessimists or not, are still pulling for the club. I've never seen a Tribune story praising Sox fans.

Why should Sox fans get any praise? They're whiny white trash from Alsip. Everyone knows Cubs fans are the best in the world.

White Sox Randy
08-09-2006, 09:35 AM
Why should Sox fans get any praise? They're whiny white trash from Alsip. Everyone knows Cubs fans are the best in the world.


Besides there's only about 12 of us. Everyone knows that there are no Sox fans. It's surprising there was even a column in the Tribune about us - we're so insignificant.

soxfan13
08-09-2006, 10:18 AM
I agree with him. 4th best record in baseball and some fans on this site and everywhere else act like the Sox are 20 games below .500 and no shot at the playoffs.

SoxWillWin
08-09-2006, 10:21 AM
The Sox reached a high of 10 games out on Monday. Ask any Cub fan whose team is 13 games out about their optimism. We were getting a bad rap there.



But the cubs are nowhere near 20 games over .500. They've been dying a slow death since Lee got injured. It's unfortunate for the Sox that the Tigers have Beaten up on damn near everyone except them.

RedHeadPaleHoser
08-09-2006, 10:43 AM
Why should Sox fans get any praise? They're whiny white trash from Alsip. Everyone knows Cubs fans are the best in the world.

Don't forget Evergreen Park. Remember, we got that Wal Mart that pisses off all the aldermen at 95th and Western.

Procol Harum
08-09-2006, 10:54 AM
Can't argue with a thing he had to say--try to turn down your Flubometers for a second and you have to admit that his article pretty fairly represents most of what I've heard over the talk shows, at the Cell, and coming out of my own piehole in the last month. We have been playing poorly but a lot of people--self included--have been prone to throw the team under the bus. So much for all of that "If the White Sox would only win one World Series I'd be happy for the rest of my life" talk. It's not just Sox fans though--I'm afraid we're just being very human, and sometimes that ain't pretty at all.

Dan H
08-09-2006, 12:06 PM
Can't argue with a thing he had to say--try to turn down your Flubometers for a second and you have to admit that his article pretty fairly represents most of what I've heard over the talk shows, at the Cell, and coming out of my own piehole in the last month. We have been playing poorly but a lot of people--self included--have been prone to throw the team under the bus. So much for all of that "If the White Sox would only win one World Series I'd be happy for the rest of my life" talk. It's not just Sox fans though--I'm afraid we're just being very human, and sometimes that ain't pretty at all.

Your last sentence is my whole point. We are just being human. Fans do and say all kinds of things, but so do the media and the players.

I am not all that upset about the column; I just think Morrissey can spend his time writing about something that really matters. And if he thinks we are spoiled, he ought to take a look at Yankee fans. They think is their team should win the WS every year, and they are livid at recent Yankee losses in the playoffs. Warts and all, I think Sox fans are no worse than any other fans, and that they are a decent bunch.

White Sox Randy
08-09-2006, 12:21 PM
Honestly, I think that the frustration that the fans feel with this team is legit.

If we had lost a player or two from last year's team because of free agency or we've had some serious injuries this year, then expectations would be lower.

But, considering that we brought back the same team and added Jim Thome and improved the bench and we've been healthier than anyone else, it's natural for the fans to expect the same level of play - and it often times hasn't been close in SO MANY areas.

We're down in starting pitching, relief pitching, defense and in overall execution and fundamentals. But, the hitting has definitely been better.

tebman
08-09-2006, 12:25 PM
Your last sentence is my whole point. We are just being human. Fans do and say all kinds of things, but so do the media and the players.

I am not all that upset about the column; I just think Morrissey can spend his time writing about something that really matters. And if he thinks we are spoiled, he ought to take a look at Yankee fans. They think is their team should win the WS every year, and they are livid at recent Yankee losses in the playoffs. Warts and all, I think Sox fans are no worse than any other fans, and that they are a decent bunch.
Amen. The "Yankee attitude" that we grumble about (and nobody does that more than I) is a product of generations of success. Yankee fans are impatient because they've come to expect championships. Steinbrenner is the perfect owner for that whole culture. He makes me crazy but I have to tip my cap to him.

We Sox fans had a magical year last year and we appreciate it. But we're also like whipped dogs in that we've been told for so long that we're second-class, that our team's not lovable enough, and that our neighbors aren't good-looking enough. Those wounds take time to heal, and the Sox' disappointing play over the last month brings out those deep-seated reactions from us.

Consistency will get us through this -- consistent winning, consistent contention, consistent personnel, consistent direction and style of play. That's what true dynasties are built on and I'm looking forward to it.

soxtalker
08-09-2006, 12:27 PM
I don't agree with him. Sox fans who have a "lack of faith" are not acting irrationally. The Sox just haven't been playing terribly well the past month or two. And the pitching/defense problems that have become so apparent during this stretch were there in the earlier parts of the season when hitting was carrying them.

I'm a little suspicious of any talk about projections. Take a look at this graph (http://www.pennant-race.com/american_league_central_division). Basing a projection on our current winning percentage is like drawing a straight line from the start of the season through our current mark (and extrapolating to the end of the season). I might feel comfortable doing that for the Tigers, but not the Sox or Twins.

Could the Sox turn things around? Of course. This would be the scenario that has propelled several wild-card teams to the World Series -- get hot at the end of the season when you're in a fight to stay alive in the wild-card race. But I'd feel a lot more optimistic about our chances of doing that if I didn't continue to see fundamental problems like errors in CF and base-running/bunting failures last night or our starting pitchers continuing to struggle.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 12:27 PM
It would be more interesting if he wrote about Braves' fans getting spoiled and not showing up for games until the playoffs, and not even then in recent years.

Or about A's and Twins' fans who didn't get paid off by a World Series appearance. A lot of Twins fans get really mad at their GM because he never (in their opinion) has been willing to sell out his prospects to win "this year," always waiting for the next season...by then, too many of the players aren't affordable and the team needs to be broken up.

Or Indians' fans...Astros...Mariners...D-Rays...Pirates...Rockies...Brewers, etc.

caulfield12
08-09-2006, 12:34 PM
Just imagine all the threads if WE had lost....

Why is AJ bunting when he isn't normally asked to do so?
What is Mack doing in CF again when Anderson is (now was) hitting?
Why waste Jenks in a game we lost or were trailing?
Why even use N. Cotts any more?
What's wrong with Thornton? Has he really solved his control issues?
Why is Pods going for 3rd with no outs?
Why can't Pods even TRY to throw out a runner (two occasions last night)?
Why take AJ out when Alomar could come up in a huge at-bat later?
Why keep sending runners that are obviously dead meat?
Why is Jenks making ridiculous throws to first that have no chance of ending up w/ a positive result? And why did Buehrle/Konerko mess up Monday?


There's about 92 things that could be mentioned had we actually lost that game.

Lip Man 1
08-09-2006, 12:58 PM
Rick Morrissey is also the guy who said in print that the Cubs would win the division and that when the Sox fell a few games behind Detroit there was nothing to worry about.

Not saying what he said in his column today isn't sound, just that when it comes to baseball expertise, Rick doesn't appear to have a lot of it.

To me Phil Rogers is much more connected with baseball and I enjoy his work more. Today for example, he had a pretty spot-on column looking at the Sox, what they are doing right, what they are doing wrong and what it will take to lock down the wild card spot.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060809rogers,1,6397487.column?coll=cs-home-utility

Lip

SoxWillWin
08-09-2006, 01:02 PM
Just imagine all the threads if WE had lost....

Why is AJ bunting when he isn't normally asked to do so?
What is Mack doing in CF again when Anderson is (now was) hitting?
Why waste Jenks in a game we lost or were trailing?
Why even use N. Cotts any more?
What's wrong with Thornton? Has he really solved his control issues?
Why is Pods going for 3rd with no outs?
Why can't Pods even TRY to throw out a runner (two occasions last night)?
Why take AJ out when Alomar could come up in a huge at-bat later?
Why keep sending runners that are obviously dead meat?
Why is Jenks making ridiculous throws to first that have no chance of ending up w/ a positive result? And why did Buehrle/Konerko mess up Monday?


There's about 92 things that could be mentioned had we actually lost that game.

There was a "why is pods going for 3rd thread"
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=76751&highlight=pods
of course the fact that the replays clearly showed that not only did his hand get to the bag before the tag, but A-rod tagged the ground and not pods.

greygoose
08-09-2006, 01:41 PM
I loved the Cubune story about The Wave - but I can't seem to remember one about trash being thrown on the field :D:

pudge
08-09-2006, 01:41 PM
Haven't we sold out nearly every game this month?

Once again, Sox fans get trashed.

The absurd "panic" shown on the 'net and in WSI isn't necessarily the norm. There really are level-headed people out there.

JB98
08-09-2006, 01:43 PM
Being a Sox fan isn't about being happy and optimistic all the time and blowing sunshine up everyone's ass. Most of us are intense competitors. We take baseball seriously. (Maybe too seriously?) We hate losing. Those of us who live in or around Chicago have monumental chips on our shoulders because we've been treated like second-class citizens for years. Now that we have a World Series title under our belts, we expect to win. When we don't win, we get pissed. And we haven't been winning much since the All-Star break.

I refuse to apologize for expecting to win and hating to lose.

buehrle4cy05
08-09-2006, 01:43 PM
If Morrissey has been reading WSI lately, I know where he got his points from.

ode to veeck
08-09-2006, 02:07 PM
Morrisey writing on this topic just makes him a much more prominant dark cloud, and a very big part of the problem, rather than staying focused on the real baseball issues (like Rogers does in his article today).

TDog
08-09-2006, 02:30 PM
Honestly, I think that the frustration that the fans feel with this team is legit.

If we had lost a player or two from last year's team because of free agency or we've had some serious injuries this year, then expectations would be lower.

But, considering that we brought back the same team and added Jim Thome and improved the bench and we've been healthier than anyone else, it's natural for the fans to expect the same level of play - and it often times hasn't been close in SO MANY areas.

We're down in starting pitching, relief pitching, defense and in overall execution and fundamentals. But, the hitting has definitely been better.

The same team. Except for Rowand. And Everett. Harris and Perez. Of course, Hermanson hasn't come back, and Thomas isn't on the Sox DL anymore. Marte and Vizcaino are gone. Hernandez left with Marte. Politte and Widger didn't make it into August.

I might be missing one or two departures, but otherwise it's the same team.

I think this year's Sox team is better on paper, but last year's Sox team (like this year's Tigers team) wouldn't have won on paper. It comes down to the simple fact that the pitching isn't doing as well as last year. The talent is there, and the season isn't over, even if the Sox have to win the consolation wild card and open the postseason in (probably) New York.

The margin between having a good season and a great season isn't huge -- which is what makes great seasons so, well, huge. I was posting last year that people needed to enjoy the season while it lasted.

Take away five bad pitches by the Sox this year and take away five bad pitches by the Tigers' opposing pitches (that includes the Sox) this year, and the Sox would be in first place, despite other pitching and defensive lapses.

AnkleSox
08-09-2006, 02:36 PM
I'd rather have a reputation as a fan with extremely high expectations than as one who settles for failure year after year.

Iwritecode
08-09-2006, 02:59 PM
Take away five bad pitches by the Sox this year and take away five bad pitches by the Tigers' opposing pitches (that includes the Sox) this year, and the Sox would be in first place, despite other pitching and defensive lapses.

No kidding. I wonder if everyone would have the same complaints about this team if the Tigers weren't so far ahead of every other team in the MLB.

kevin57
08-09-2006, 03:05 PM
It's always about expectations. If Rowand et al. were all back, I don't think we fans would be nearly as down in the dumps, but the fact that Kenny did reload for another run and that by anyone's calculations we were at least a lock for a playoff spot. Add to that a very strong start and it's not surprising we're not too optimistic.

Moreover, our history and, I think, our innate pessimism as Sox fans plays a role. We don't see ourselves as rallying and making a great final run. We see Boston, NY, the Tigers, and the damn Twinkies as continuing on their respective winning ways while we continue to fade away.

cgaudin
08-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Clearly Morrissey, you've never delved into NY Yankees culture or even the Red Sox. They are a hell of a lot more brutal than Chicago fans could ever be. They're trying to get rid of last year's MVP and certain first ballot Hall of Famer, as we speak! The Yankees are in first place, but you would never know it by reading their bulletin boards.

The White Sox are a large-market team, and now that we as fans have tasted ultimate victory, we don't want to let it go so easily. Winners want to stay winners. If the economics of the situation were different, say Chicago were a small market team and could not afford to keep Championship caliber players, I would see things from another perpective. But this club is largely intact. In fact, most would argue that this year's team was assembled with stronger pieces than last year's Champions.

Morrissey, YOU do not realize that this club is TRULY underachieving. That is the chief reason for most fans' frustrations. I assure you, if we had crummy players, the expectations would not be there (and the boards would have fewer "fans" bitching). They are not the 1997 or 2003 Marlins that got auctioned off piece by piece. The core of the Championship team remains. We should have high expectations.

Morrissey, why don't you look at this movement in a healthy perspective, that Chicago fans demand to have a quality product. We are proving our worth as true baseball fans, that we are passionate about out team, and we CARE. It's not as if the Cell is half-empty when the Sox play. The Cell will be sold out for all the remaining home games. Your rationale parallels the very reason why the Cubs will NEVER win a World Series in our lifetime. Having a nice atmosphere and a hip ballpark will only go so far, Morrissey. And don't start with the crap that Wrigley is full even when they suck, that Cubs fans are "true" fans. PLEASE! It's that very ambivalence and apathy from fans who don't demand more from their team and are content with a "nice experience" at the ballpark that feeds that 98 year "curse", you moron!

thomas35forever
08-09-2006, 04:32 PM
We can get spoiled really fast. Every other team would kill for the Wild Card lead. Remember the dark cloud who gave up last night before the game was over and we all made fun of him? I think the article was talking about him.

ws05champs
08-09-2006, 04:42 PM
What alternate universe White Sox fans is Morrissey talking about? I don't see many Sox fans that have truly given up on the team. The truth is the Sox are not playing perfect baseball. They are making mistakes. Are we supposed to just pretend that the mistakes didn't happen?

Morrissey needs to do some real research before writing such an article - but why should he be any different than any of the other "sports writers" in this town?

Britt Burns
08-09-2006, 04:45 PM
Ah, so sad to see all those fans who have given up sell out the stadium for what, the 13th straight game? Too bad, other than a few inanities like that one, I actually thought his article was generally on target.