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Frontman
08-07-2006, 10:57 PM
As I brought up in the thread about Pods, I have a feeling that given the direction Ken Williams has taken this team, and seeing "fan favorites" go away prior to 2005; have we become a fan base that is more team orientated or do are we still enamored with certain players? The more I talk to Cubs fans, for example, the more I see that sheep mentality that their fans are in love with not only their ballpark, but their players. They overlooked all of Sosa's garbage and loved the guy. They still are in love with Wood/Prior, who together have pitched less than 25 games, and only one of the two of them have one a damn game.

Do we look critically at our players enough? Do we overlook our guys poor performances out of being a Pods/AJ/Paulie fan? Do we look critically enough at them? or does it even matter to us as fans if "Crede/AJ/Konerko-fill-in-the-blank" is still here in 2007, who gives a crud who is wearing the uniform as long as we keep winning? Or is it a bit of everything?

Just wondering what folks thought about this.

Front

Parrothead
08-07-2006, 11:07 PM
Don't care who is on the team as long as they win....but of course I have my favorites.....CRRRRRREEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEE !

Lets face it, in the era of free agency, there is no reason to get to attached to players since they rarely stay with one team. And on that note, no one is "untradable". Since Gretzky, Ruth, Randy Johnson, Griffey and others were traded anyone can be.

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm old school and I like when fans connect with individual players that stay with the franchise over long periods of time, a la Frank Thomas, Harold Baines, Carlton Fisk, heck, even Ozzie Guillen.

The Dude
08-07-2006, 11:26 PM
As I brought up in the thread about Pods, I have a feeling that given the direction Ken Williams has taken this team, and seeing "fan favorites" go away prior to 2005; have we become a fan base that is more team orientated or do are we still enamored with certain players? The more I talk to Cubs fans, for example, the more I see that sheep mentality that their fans are in love with not only their ballpark, but their players. They overlooked all of Sosa's garbage and loved the guy. They still are in love with Wood/Prior, who together have pitched less than 25 games, and only one of the two of them have one a damn game.

Do we look critically at our players enough? Do we overlook our guys poor performances out of being a Pods/AJ/Paulie fan? Do we look critically enough at them? or does it even matter to us as fans if "Crede/AJ/Konerko-fill-in-the-blank" is still here in 2007, who gives a crud who is wearing the uniform as long as we keep winning? Or is it a bit of everything?

Just wondering what folks thought about this.

Front

Yes Front, you prove it with Pods in that thread!

my5thbench
08-08-2006, 12:21 PM
Aaron Rowand is a good example, some can never let go despite the fact that he was traded for a stud

itsnotrequired
08-08-2006, 12:24 PM
Don't care who is on the team as long as they win....but of course I have my favorites.....CRRRRRREEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEE !

Lets face it, in the era of free agency, there is no reason to get to attached to players since they rarely stay with one team. And on that note, no one is "untradable". Since Gretzky, Ruth, Randy Johnson, Griffey and others were traded anyone can be.

...and there you have it. People are going to have their favorite players but the attachment to players just isn't the same as it was before the era of free agency. Today, winning means all. If Rowand for Thome is a move that will help the team go for broke again this season, then I say go for it.

Lip Man 1
08-08-2006, 12:26 PM
It doesn't matter who is in the uniforms...all that matters is at the end of the season how many wins do you have.

Now I do admit that in the past the Sox could have been more tactful with the 'way' they made changes with fan favorites. The way they handled the Fisk situation is still the best example I've ever seen of how NOT to do something like that.

Lip

Madvora
08-08-2006, 12:27 PM
I have guys on the team that I like, but as soon as they suck, then forget it, get rid of them.
Look at Harold Baines' last year on the Sox.

Mr.1Dog
08-08-2006, 12:30 PM
If they win, I love them all. However, when they lose, I start to question that love for certain players.

The Immigrant
08-08-2006, 12:30 PM
My loyalty is to the team (or "the laundry," as Seinfeld so eloquently put it). Players come and go - it's the team that matters. If any particular player is not helping the team, I have no problem with Kenny making a move to improve the team.

peeonwrigley
08-08-2006, 12:33 PM
My loyalty is to the team (or "the laundry," as Seinfeld so eloquently put it). Players come and go - it's the team that matters. If any particular player is not helping the team, I have no problem with Kenny making a move to improve the team.

I agree. There will always be sentimental favorites, but in the end I care that the White Sox win.

jenn2080
08-08-2006, 12:49 PM
It doesn't matter who is in the uniforms...all that matters is at the end of the season how many wins do you have.

Now I do admit that in the past the Sox could have been more tactful with the 'way' they made changes with fan favorites. The way they handled the Fisk situation is still the best example I've ever seen of how NOT to do something like that.

Lip


It more then def matters who is in a Sox uniform. Set aside the fact that we kicked ass last year I enjoyed watching our team play. They went out then had fun they played with heart and soul. I wouldnt want cocky guys like Big Poopie and Giambi on our team. We have a great bunch of guys on our team. I dont have just one favorite on this team. They are all my favorites...well 22 out of 25. Which is not that bad. I thank Cotts, Pods and Uribe for what they do but man they kill me sometimes. I have not given up on Burls I still have faith he can get out of whatever he is in.

Lip Man 1
08-08-2006, 12:56 PM
Jenn:

That's your opinion and I respect it. I simply disagree with it. I'd take Ortiz in a heartbeat because not only is he a great player but he seems to be a good teammate and leader as well.

You can have the nicest guys in the world but if they can't play then you have a serious problem.

Lip

Milw
08-08-2006, 01:22 PM
Jenn:

That's your opinion and I respect it. I simply disagree with it. I'd take Ortiz in a heartbeat because not only is he a great player but he seems to be a good teammate and leader as well.

You can have the nicest guys in the world but if they can't play then you have a serious problem.

Lip
I'd rather root for a class act who sucks than a jerk who is great.

The team is ultimately what matters, but if you can't be proud of the individuals, then what's the point.

maurice
08-08-2006, 02:06 PM
The Sox don't have a superstar-oriented team. The roster is mostly a bunch of very-good-but-not-great players. The biggest "name" player on this roster (Thome) wan't even on the WS team. The biggest "name" player on last year's roster (Thomas) was on the DL during the WS and then was kicked to the curb. This requires the team to market wins and a general "grinder" attitude, instead of harping on a handful of so-called "superstar" players.

Of course, individual fans always will have their favorites, but we're very different than, say, the Yankees, the Red Sox, or the Cubs.

jenn2080
08-08-2006, 02:40 PM
Jenn:

That's your opinion and I respect it. I simply disagree with it. I'd take Ortiz in a heartbeat because not only is he a great player but he seems to be a good teammate and leader as well.

You can have the nicest guys in the world but if they can't play then you have a serious problem.

Lip

And I agree with you too well as far as the part of the highlighted parts..

Lip Man 1
08-08-2006, 04:09 PM
Milw:

Like with Jenn I respect your opinion but disagree with it.

The name of the game is winning. Unfortunately they don't give runs for personality, niceness and so forth.

Not saying I want a team of felons but if the guys do their jobs and win games, personally I don't care if they interact much with the media or do charity events and so forth.

Lip

cgaudin
08-08-2006, 04:42 PM
Ultimately, the Sox, as a club and franchise, have built roots and huge fan following based solely on their familiarity and tenure as a Chicago baseball club for over 100 years in the same city. They've built ROOTS, going back many generations of families. Now, let's suppose the Sox moved to St. Petersburg a few years back, how many of us Sox fans would have origins in Chicago....a lot fewer I would imagine. How many of us would STILL cheer the Tampa Bay White Sox?

Conversely, let's say the current Sox players were all switched with say......Boston's players, or Detroit's, or Kansas City, or even yet......the Cubs! How would you feel about "your" White Sox, without Paul K., JD, AJ, even Pods????

Although the White Sox did not have a rich winning tradition prior to last season, a la NY Yankees, they still HAD a history, a history in the southside entertaining thousands of people every summer for a century. That is worth something. Devil Rays, Diamondbacks, Marlins, and Nationals fans don't have that to draw from. They've never experienced the emotional attachment, the bliss of winning, and the futility, disappointments that we have endured. That is why last year's World Series meant SO MUCH to so many, the same as it did to the Boston Red Sox fans in 2004. All the years of pain, suffering, frustrations, and dissappointments from fans going back to just after World War 1, ended in a jubilant almost surreal feeling of disbelief and cautious realization that what the team had accomplished, was to be savored and cherished for many lifetimes.

Chisox003
08-08-2006, 04:51 PM
Maybe all the Ortiz hate is because of who he plays for, and of course the national network that promotes them every waking minute. How some of you are so positive he's such a "jerk" is beyond me.

But to say you wouldn't take him on your team is ridiculous. :kukoo:

First and foremost, I want a team that wins. Do I enjoy having guys on the team that are easy to root for (see: Rowand, Aaron)? Of course. But winning is above all most important.

Frontman
08-08-2006, 05:41 PM
Yes Front, you prove it with Pods in that thread!

Why, because I pointed out that he's DOING AS WELL AS HE HAS HIS ENTIRE CAREER with his OBP? My whole point on that thread is that why all the hate for Pods, as he's doing the same as he always has.

Front