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View Full Version : *Official* We Buehrle Stood A Chance 8/7/06 Postgame Thread


BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 09:49 PM
With this clown behind the dish. At least we won't see him against the Yankees.

Other than that, Escobar can still shut us down. Blech.

thomas35forever
08-07-2006, 09:49 PM
What more could you ask for in a Sox loss?

A bad performance by Buerhle + poor decisions by Ozzie + terrible umping = a commanding lead for Detroit in the AL Central :angry:

peeonwrigley
08-07-2006, 09:51 PM
At least its not like the Yankees are coming to town.

kwolf68
08-07-2006, 09:51 PM
Team loss. Overall poor effort. Our schedule becomes brutal for the next 2-3 weeks...need to start making noise tomorrow.

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 09:51 PM
Bevi, another good thread header. I needed a laugh after that game.

sox230
08-07-2006, 09:52 PM
Now that Uribe is injured, Ozzie has to play his bench players...showed how Ozzie shoud have taken advantage of his STARTERS while healthy, instead of playing 1 or 2 bunch guys a game...that said to be in the lead for the WC this late while playing bench players every game is pretty dame amazing!!!! Ozzie lost this game when he didnt pull Buerhle after Quinlan....everybody in the park and my mom knew what he should have done.:angry: :angry: :angry:

rdwj
08-07-2006, 09:52 PM
I no longer pay attention to Detroit - there isn't much of a chance at winning the Central at this point. I'm actually pulling for the Tigers to take care of the Twins in order to keep our WC hopes alive.

This was a depressing loss :(:

TheDarkGundam
08-07-2006, 09:53 PM
Only good thing to come out of this game:
We discovered in Chat that "The Final Countdown" is the greatest song of all time.
:tongue:

PeoriaSoxFan
08-07-2006, 09:54 PM
We are now 2-8 in our last 10 home games, all sell-outs. Not good.

We have 52 to go and a pretty tough schedule. I've been saying it for weeks, the time to break out is now!!!!! The White Sox need to go on a roll. Pods, Gooch, Anderson, Uribe, Ozzie, and all of the pitchers need to step up immediately.

MrRoboto83
08-07-2006, 09:54 PM
This game stung

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 09:54 PM
Only good thing to come out of this game:
We discovered in Chat that "The Final Countdown" is the greatest song of all time.
:tongue:

I thought Trail of Tears was Joey Tempest's best work.

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 09:54 PM
I no longer pay attention to Detroit - there isn't much of a chance at winning the Central at this point. I'm actually pulling for the Tigers to take care of the Twins in order to keep our WC hopes alive.

This was a depressing loss :(:

My sentiments exactly. It's wild card or nothing. Maybe the Tigers can take out a few of the other WC contenders. My god, they have to run out of gas sooner or later don't they? Hopefully next year all of their starters will be gassed like ours.

lakeviewsoxfan
08-07-2006, 09:54 PM
This one is on OG and his supreme stubborness always wanting his starters to get the W, that **** worked last year he still hasn't learned his lesson Buerhle should have never faced Salmon and we would be going to extras.

kwolf68
08-07-2006, 09:55 PM
I thought after the amazing performance by Javy, the rest of the guys would fall in line, but the next two starters totally flail away. I am very worried.

NoShoesJoe
08-07-2006, 09:55 PM
Cintron has really sucked lately too. I hope he comes out of his funk and soon. This game really sucked, no excuses, it sucked. I'm quite sick of Pods, too, and his recent 190 average.

samram
08-07-2006, 09:55 PM
For the second straight day, I think Oz left the starter in one batter too long. I don't think these guys have earned that opportunity this year- they haven't been making the big pitches to get out of jams.

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 09:55 PM
I've been saying it for weeks, the time to break out is now!!!!!

Wouldn't the time to have broken out been then? :cool:

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 09:55 PM
Now that Uribe is injured, Ozzie has to play his bench players...showed how Ozzie shoud have taken advantage of his STARTERS while healthy, instead of playing 1 or 2 bunch guys a game...that said to be in the lead for the WC this late while playing bench players every game is pretty dame amazing!!!! Ozzie lost this game when he didnt pull Buerhle after Quinlan....everybody in the park and my mom knew what he should have done.:angry: :angry: :angry: You have been registered a long time, but you obviously haven't posted much. You should keep it that way, or at least take the night off. You have said some really dumb things tonight in the game thread. We are doing the same thing we did all last year. Ozzie puts reserves in regularly so the starters are rested. The only guys he doesn't rest, for some reason,are the two who need it most - Dye and Crede. It showed in the playoffs last year that we were rested. About the only reserve that has cost us games has been Rob with his CF defense. We haven't lost games because our "best lineup" isn't in there, we lost games because we hit like crap against ****ty pitchers. Not just the reserves, but the whole lineup.

southsideirish71
08-07-2006, 09:56 PM
Again Ozzie is presented with the 7th inning, we are down by a run. He has a starting pitcher that has give up a warning track shot this inning, 3 jacks in the game, and has 2 base runners on. Just like he was with garcia in KC, and the Count yesterday. He has Mccarthy ready to go in the pen. Just like before he goes out and has a chat with his pitcher, then leaves him in, then the runs come flooding in.

At some point Ozzie has to realize that this isnt 2005, and our starters are not the same guys physically as last year.

Ozzie needs to follow through with his statements in the news about having a quicker hook with the SP.

JB98
08-07-2006, 09:56 PM
The schedule is about to get real tough. We can't continue to play like this. It's time to wake up.

This thread is going to get ugly tonight.

NoShoesJoe
08-07-2006, 09:56 PM
Wouldn't the time to have broken out been then? :cool:

I think he's going to keep on saying that for weeks to come the way this team is playing. They look bad.

Grzegorz
08-07-2006, 09:57 PM
With this clown behind the dish. At least we won't see him against the Yankees.

The umpire??? Buehrle gave this game away. It is all on his shoulders.

Even the outs were hit hard. He continually leaves the ball up in the strike zone.

When Ozzie went out to talk to Buehrle I was hoping beyond hope he'd take him out. Buehrle should be on a short leash; any sign of trouble and he should be out of the game.

It's nice to see McCarthy pitch some longer relief and pitch well.

At this point, focus on the Yankees and Tigers; this team needs wins.

Freakin' Escobar... Unbelievable...

Senerch23
08-07-2006, 09:57 PM
Only good thing to come out of this game:
We discovered in Chat that "The Final Countdown" is the greatest song of all time.
:tongue:

This?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKKs_vWJmVY

JB98
08-07-2006, 09:57 PM
For the second straight day, I think Oz left the starter in one batter too long. I don't think these guys have earned that opportunity this year- they haven't been making the big pitches to get out of jams.

Bingo. I'm sure this thread will contain 500 posts before all is said and done, but this will be the best of the bunch.

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 09:59 PM
An extra inning or two of rest for Buehrle would be nice from now on.
I'd hate to see his arm finally fall off when he is playing here in St Louis in '08.

That stat that he has the most innings pitched since '01 is crazy. Dude eats up innings!

kwolf68
08-07-2006, 09:59 PM
This thread is going to get ugly tonight.

Na, no reason to I don't think. While my inherent view is the Sox may not make it, the World Title is too much in my memory to get broken down over things.

After the frustation of another stinky performance by a starting pitcher sinks in, you slap in the World Series tape and things are better.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 09:59 PM
This one is on OG and his supreme stubborness always wanting his starters to get the W, that **** worked last year he still hasn't learned his lesson Buerhle should have never faced Salmon and we would be going to extras.
1) Buehrle faced Salmon with two outs and nobody on, why wouldn't he face him?
2) Burhrle not only didn't get any borderline calls (unlike LAA), he got 2 or 3 actual strikes in the zone called balls. What would make you believe that If Ozzie put McCarthy in there, the umpire would start calling a legit strikezone?

samram
08-07-2006, 10:00 PM
Bingo. I'm sure this thread will contain 500 posts before all is said and done, but this will be the best of the bunch.

Well, thank you, kind sir.:smile:

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 10:00 PM
Na, no reason to I don't think. While my inherent view is the Sox may not make it, the World Title is too much in my memory to get broken down over things.

After the frustation of another stinky performance by a starting pitcher sinks in, you slap in the World Series tape and things are better.

That's not a bad idea. How soon we forget.

I see Blue....he's glorious

kwolf68
08-07-2006, 10:02 PM
My view is these pitchers are just tired and will come back strong next year or a couple will be moved in deals so we can get younger and a little nastier in the rotation. Aftereall, we are competing with the Tigers and Twins...a couple teams with some filthy arms.

kittle42
08-07-2006, 10:03 PM
The starting pitching is way too erratic for the Sox to maintain any real momentum. Very hard to establish a winning steak when someone's getting hit up for 5+ runs every other game, no matter how good your offense is.

NoShoesJoe
08-07-2006, 10:03 PM
I am so disappointed with this ****ty performance, and so that I don't piss everyone off with my lousy attitude, I think I'll call it a night. Let's wake up and get it done against NY.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:04 PM
Besides Buehrle having a bad game, this is a game we wouldn't win no matter what. The offense looked horrible against Escobar. Absolutely horrible. But it's ok, because after they score 2 tomorrow, they will score 14 on Wednesday. Best offense in the league!

NoShoesJoe
08-07-2006, 10:05 PM
The starting pitching is way too erratic for the Sox to maintain any real momentum. Very hard to establish a winning steak when someone's getting hit up for 5+ runs every other game, no matter how good your offense is.

Before I sign off, that's a good point. When was the last time they won 1-0, 2-1, or even 3-2? I can't remember the last time. It's all about the starting pitching.

samram
08-07-2006, 10:05 PM
The starting pitching is way too erratic for the Sox to maintain any real momentum. Very hard to establish a winning steak when someone's getting hit up for 5+ runs every other game, no matter how good your offense is.

Yeah, you have to be able to win a 2-1 game every once in a while. It's odd- last year winning the 7-6 games was the hard part.

Senerch23
08-07-2006, 10:06 PM
So can the Sox afford to put Uribe on the DL? Sounds like a decision will be made tomorrow.

samram
08-07-2006, 10:07 PM
Besides Buehrle having a bad game, this is a game we wouldn't win no matter what. The offense looked horrible against Escobar. Absolutely horrible. But it's ok, because after they score 2 tomorrow, they will score 14 on Wednesday. Best offense in the league!
Wow, you're blaming the offense? GMAB. This offense is responsible for their even being in the race. If the pitching was anywhere near what it was last year, they would be right with Detroit.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-07-2006, 10:07 PM
Wouldn't the time to have broken out been then? :cool:

Yes, but I can't be blamed for writing nonsensical things, when I am this frustrated.

Justagirl
08-07-2006, 10:07 PM
The umpire??? Buehrle gave this game away. It is all on his shoulders.



That one guy screaming *THATS A STRIKE*! to Cooper on foul balls was cracking me up. :tongue:

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 10:07 PM
Before I sign off, that's a good point. When was the last time they won 1-0, 2-1, or even 3-2? I can't remember the last time. It's all about the starting pitching.

I think it would have to be back in June against St Louis. 1-0 over Reyes.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:07 PM
Before I sign off, that's a good point. When was the last time they won 1-0, 2-1, or even 3-2? I can't remember the last time. It's all about the starting pitching.
I agree that our pitching hasn't even been close to what it should be, but our offense has lost us a lot of games, too. They have been far too inconsistant, and they haven't learned. They still go up there swining for the fences when they are down by 3 with nobody on base.

Grzegorz
08-07-2006, 10:08 PM
Besides Buehrle having a bad game, this is a game we wouldn't win no matter what.

I don't buy that at all; this team had every chance to scratch this one out. Unfortunately, the starting pitching didn't give the team a chance to scratch it out.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:08 PM
Before I sign off, that's a good point. When was the last time they won 1-0, 2-1, or even 3-2? I can't remember the last time. It's all about the starting pitching.

Garland beat the Orioles 4-2 on July 5. That's the best I can do for you. I'm not complaining about our offense. Our starting pitching is the reason for our struggles. Someone needs to step up and shut the opponent down on a night where we don't hit. On the recent 6-3 road trip, our team ERA was well over 5.00. Our offense is doing WAY TOO MUCH of the heavy lifting.

Senerch23
08-07-2006, 10:09 PM
I agree that our pitching hasn't even been close to what it should be, but our offense has lost us a lot of games, too. They have been far too inconsistant, and they haven't learned. They still go up there swining for the fences when they are down by 3 with nobody on base.

This seems to be more of a problem when the team is at home for some reason.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:09 PM
Wow, you're blaming the offense? GMAB. This offense is responsible for their even being in the race. If the pitching was anywhere near what it was last year, they would be right with Detroit.
You're right. Escobar is the second coming of Cy Young. The 27 Yankees would have been lucky to get a run off of him. 2 runs was acceptable. Let's keep swining for the fences.

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 10:09 PM
I really thought Buerhle would have snapped out of it. But he got hit REAL HARD. The pitches were cookies all of them, except the homerun pitch by Vlad. Ahh, we come out 7 and 4 in this homestand and it will be good, not great, but good.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-07-2006, 10:09 PM
Press Conference - Ozzie said he got the answer he wanted from Sandy regarding Buehrle to stay in. He was throwing good? What am I missing?

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 10:09 PM
I agree that our pitching hasn't even been close to what it should be, but our offense has lost us a lot of games, too. They have been far too inconsistant, and they haven't learned. They still go up there swining for the fences when they are down by 3 with nobody on base.

Walker needs to line them up and smack them all 3 Stooges style. It's like they've forgotten what small ball is. Granted a couple games in Toronto I saw glimpes of it.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:11 PM
I don't buy that at all; this team had every chance to scratch this one out. Unfortunately, the starting pitching didn't give the team a chance to scratch it out.
Umm, that makes no sense whatsoever. They had every chance, but they had no chance?:?:

They scored 2 runs off Escobar. Buehrle was bad, the umpiring was worse, and the the offense sucked ass. It's the triple crown.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:11 PM
Walker needs to line them up and smack them all 3 Stooges style. It's like they've forgotten what small ball is. Granted a couple games in Toronto I saw glimpes of it.
Either that or someone needs to do it to Walker.

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 10:12 PM
Press Conference - Ozzie said he got the answer he wanted from Sandy regarding Buehrle to stay in. He was throwing good? What am I missing?

Why do managers even bother asking their pitcher if they are okay to stay in. What percentage of pitchers acutally say "yeah i'm tired". I can't remember where I heard it, but it was said that Ozzie needs to stop just drawing up the lineup card each day, and start actually managing.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:12 PM
You're right. Escobar is the second coming of Cy Young. The 27 Yankees would have been lucky to get a run off of him. 2 runs was acceptable. Let's keep swining for the fences.

Thome did a fine job of hitting to the opposite field tonight. Konerko did a nice job of situational hitting, and Crede got a clutch hit to the opposite field.

I thought Escobar was tough tonight. I don't agree with your assessment that guys were swinging for the fences.

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Why do managers even bother asking their pitcher if they are okay to stay in.

Not only that, the players GM too.

Justagirl
08-07-2006, 10:13 PM
So can the Sox afford to put Uribe on the DL? Sounds like a decision will be made tomorrow.

Ozzie just said he was available today if needed and should be back in the lineup tomorrow.

samram
08-07-2006, 10:13 PM
You're right. Escobar is the second coming of Cy Young. The 27 Yankees would have been lucky to get a run off of him. 2 runs was acceptable. Let's keep swining for the fences.

Escobar had an ERA under 4- better than pretty much anyone in the Sox rotation. Plus, they had to swing for the fences since the world's greatest leadoff hitter couldn't manage to get on base.

However, they were in the game until Buehrle melted down- it's not hardly the first time a starting pitcher has done this this year (although I know it hasn't happened since, uh, yesterday).

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 10:14 PM
I thought Escobar was tough tonight. I don't agree with your assessment that guys were swinging for the fences.
Escobar is always tough on us. I cringed when I saw he was starting tonight. I also didn't see anyone swinging for the fences.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:14 PM
Walker needs to line them up and smack them all 3 Stooges style. It's like they've forgotten what small ball is. Granted a couple games in Toronto I saw glimpes of it.

Our first run was small ball. Thome doubled. Konerko gave himself up, advanced the runner to third with less than two outs. Dye beat out an infield single to score the run.

Look at our second run: Iguchi singled up the middle, went to third on a hit-and-run single by Konerko, scored on an opposite-field hit by Crede.

Sounds like small ball to me.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 10:15 PM
catchers often say... he's got nothing.. lmao.. ozzie doesn't have eyes? in my opinion, a manager nneded to get run after some of the calls that were made tonight. he just sat there ala dusty baker. here's an idea, instead of talking about players having other players backs, stand up for your pitcher and batters that are getting strikes called that are almost neck high. practice what you preach, o great world series manager.

PeoriaSoxFan
08-07-2006, 10:15 PM
Didn't know Escobar was 1-9 lifetime against us. Ouch. Go kick some Yankee/ESPN butt the next three days. :mad::angry::mad:

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Our first run was small ball. Thome doubled. Konerko gave himself up, advanced the runner to third with less than two outs. Dye beat out an infield single to score the run.

Look at our second run: Iguchi singled up the middle, went to third on a hit-and-run single by Konerko, scored on an opposite-field hit by Crede.

Sounds like small ball to me.

Scoring 2 runs is also small ball. Gimme 10+!

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Wow, you're blaming the offense? GMAB. This offense is responsible for their even being in the race. If the pitching was anywhere near what it was last year, they would be right with Detroit.
Although this paragraph is true, a greater truth is to accept that this offense has been one-dimensional from the onset. We struggle mightily to get runs unless homeruns are hit. BTW, Does anyone know the percentage of the Sox scoring attributed to homeruns? Also, winning percentage when a homerun is hit?

Thome did hit one tonite.........................

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 10:16 PM
On a plus note, I get to watch 'em play 4 out of the next 5 games. Here's hoping they are "watchable".
Good night all, tomorrow is another day.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 10:17 PM
escobar is always tough on us...roflmao...look at the record.

caulfield12
08-07-2006, 10:17 PM
But wasn't he something like 0-9 or 0-10 coming into this game career-wise against the Sox?

Granted, a lot of that was with TOR and blowing games out of their pen, but it's not like he has owned us...plus we have the memories of last year in the playoffs to fall back upon I guess.

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 10:17 PM
Didn't know Escobar was 1-9 lifetime against us. Ouch. Go kick some Yankee/ESPN butt the next three days. :mad::angry::mad:

Usually it's a hard fought pitchers duel and we eek out just enough. The way our pitchers are going, we have to out-slug just about everyone.

sox230
08-07-2006, 10:17 PM
You have been registered a long time, but you obviously haven't posted much. You should keep it that way, or at least take the night off. You have said some really dumb things tonight in the game thread. We are doing the same thing we did all last year. Ozzie puts reserves in regularly so the starters are rested. The only guys he doesn't rest, for some reason,are the two who need it most - Dye and Crede. It showed in the playoffs last year that we were rested. About the only reserve that has cost us games has been Rob with his CF defense. We haven't lost games because our "best lineup" isn't in there, we lost games because we hit like crap against ****ty pitchers. Not just the reserves, but the whole lineup.

Really, because my "dumb" comments must have not applied because we have won all of those games I have been saying the same thing. It's all about adjustments, Ozzie should realize by using his philosophy last year with his pitchers by leaving them in extended amounts, his pitchers would be more worn out this year than last year. Oh, and to you the "genius", Crede really should have gotten a rest, because it's not like he had a clutch two-out hit and played great defense.

stl_sox_fan
08-07-2006, 10:18 PM
Our first run was small ball. Thome doubled. Konerko gave himself up, advanced the runner to third with less than two outs. Dye beat out an infield single to score the run.

Look at our second run: Iguchi singled up the middle, went to third on a hit-and-run single by Konerko, scored on an opposite-field hit by Crede.

Sounds like small ball to me.

Two runs tonight scored by small ball. I stand corrected.

samram
08-07-2006, 10:18 PM
Although this paragraph is true, a greater truth is to accept that this offense has been one-dimensional from the onset. We struggle mightily to get runs unless homeruns are hit. BTW, Does anyone know the percentage of the Sox scoring attributed to homeruns? Also, winning percentage when a homerun is hit?

Thome did hit one tonite.........................

The Sox are homer dependent, no doubt. However, this is a championship offense and there is a ton of pressure on it every night to score 5+ runs due to subpar pitching.

caulfield12
08-07-2006, 10:18 PM
I think it's 46-47% of runs score on homers, leading the majors.

I also think we're around 30 games over .500 when Pods gets at least one hit in a game...

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 10:21 PM
escobar is always tough on us...roflmao...look at the record.

How many of those losses came in relief? I'd bet at least half. If it wasn't for Crede last year, it'd be different.

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 10:21 PM
catchers often say... he's got nothing.. lmao.. ozzie doesn't have eyes? in my opinion, a manager nneded to get run after some of the calls that were made tonight. he just sat there ala dusty baker. here's an idea, instead of talking about players having other players backs, stand up for your pitcher and batters that are getting strikes called that are almost neck high. practice what you preach, o great world series manager.

Did you hear the fans when the homeplate umpire got one off the face mask? Dude, I was doing a Standing 'O'. That buffoon had no clue of the strike zone.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 10:22 PM
you're gonna defend a 1-9 record.?..still rolling on the floor.

BeviBall!
08-07-2006, 10:23 PM
you're gonna defend a 1-9 record.?..still rolling on the floor.

You can roll and type? Wow! When does your circus come to town?

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 10:25 PM
when escobar runs off 7 in a row against us to be a .500 pitcher against us brainiac.

Lip Man 1
08-07-2006, 10:26 PM
The next time ESPN insist on showing the Sox just say 'no' dammit!

Awful game.

Lip

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:26 PM
Two runs tonight scored by small ball. I stand corrected.

I'm attempting to refute the notion that the Sox are all swinging for the fences. The middle of our lineup actually executed well tonight. They capitalized on the only scoring opportunities we had. The bottom three in the batting order did zilch, and Podsednik didn't get on at all.

I'm growing weary of people throwing our power hitters under the bus. Thome and Konerko have been hitting tons of singles and doubles the last four games, and people are still bitching about guys swinging for the fences. Are you all not watching the same thing I'm watching?

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 10:27 PM
The Sox are homer dependent, no doubt. However, this is a championship offense and there is a ton of pressure on it every night to score 5+ runs due to subpar pitching.

I don't think 5 runs is too much to ask, either.

Pods needs to find IT soon, he needs to do whatever to get on base, walk, hit, mug the 1st baseman, bribe the pitcher......whatever.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:29 PM
I'm attempting to refute the notion that the Sox are all swinging for the fences. The middle of our lineup actually executed well tonight. They capitalized on the only scoring opportunities we had. The bottom three in the batting order did zilch, and Podsednik didn't get on at all.

I'm growing weary of people throwing our power hitters under the bus. Thome and Konerko have been hitting tons of singles and doubles the last four games, and people are still bitching about guys swinging for the fences. Are you all not watching the same thing I'm watching?
Thome and Konerko aren't the problem. I don't usually mind when they swing for the fences. The last 2 or 3 weeks, Crede has been trying to hit the ball 600 feet every swing. Cintron has looked absolutely horrible lately, so of course, he has gotten into the swinging-from-the-shoetops rut, also.

rookie
08-07-2006, 10:29 PM
Well, I agree that the offense usually has been carrying us, but tonight they weren't ever really in it. But if you think about it neither were the Angels until the 7th with 2 outs. If all of those solo homers hadn't been solo, this game would have been over long before the 7th. That said the offense is going to have to be on againist the Yankees and their pitching, especially if our pitching doesn't bring it againist the Yankees.

As far as Ozzie pulling out Mark. Part of me didn't want him to pull Mark because I'm not all that confident in our bullpen. They are hot and cold. I'd rather our bullpen come in with no one on base.

But, all those solo homers Mark had given up made me a little nervous. I don't know if he could have gotten out of that jam, not being a strikeout pitcher and the iffy strikezone. Ozzie probably should have pulled him.

The whole team needs to get it goin' on. Ozzie, pitching, and offense. And they string it together. Of course, I guess that's a broken record by now.

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 10:30 PM
The next time ESPN insist on showing the Sox just say 'no' dammit!

Awful game.

Lip

Come to think of it......they've sucked quite a bit on national TV.

southsideirish71
08-07-2006, 10:30 PM
The offense had problems tonight because for whatever reason they failed to see a pattern. This is the same pattern that made the legendary Cy Mays own us for years. Its the pattern of throwing pitch one outside, pitch 2 outside, then pitch 3 a little further away. Our hitters failed to adjust to the low and away pitch, which is how Escobar was pitching to us. They kept trying to pull pitch after pitch and not getting too much on it. Tonights offense was the mark of the pre 2005 Chicago whitesox. Pull only softball team.

Ozzie needs to stop asking our pitchers if they are tired, and starting using his hands to motion to the pen for a reliever.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:31 PM
The next time ESPN insist on showing the Sox just say 'no' dammit!

Awful game.

Lip
I agree that is was an awful game, but you have to give up about this ESPN thing. I don't give a damn what channel the game is on, and I doubt the players do either. It is purely coincidental that we have put a steaming pile of crap on national TV lately. We aren't exactly playing good on Comcast or WGN, either. We were 11-1 on ESPN/Fox last October. If we can manage to get there again, we will be fine.

Grzegorz
08-07-2006, 10:32 PM
Umm, that makes no sense whatsoever. They had every chance, but they had no chance?:?:

That's right; the team did some fine situational hitting to score runs. They had no chance to win because the starting pitching killed them tonight.

Blaming this loss tonight on the offense, and charging them with swing for the fences when they clearly were executing, makes no sense whatsoever.

samram
08-07-2006, 10:33 PM
I don't think 5 runs is too much to ask, either.

Pods needs to find IT soon, he needs to do whatever to get on base, walk, hit, mug the 1st baseman, bribe the pitcher......whatever.

Five runs every night is really a lot to ask. You have to win some games 2-1, 3-2.

And yeah, anytime Pods wants to get going is fine by me.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:34 PM
That's right; the team did some fine situational hitting to score runs. They had no chance to win because the starting pitching killed them tonight.

Blaming this loss tonight on the offense, and charging them with swing for the fences when they clearly were executing, makes no sense whatsoever.
They scored 2 runs, and looked really bad, against Escobar. They weren't in the offensive rut the whole game, but after the 7th, when they needed baserunner the most, they all started swinging for the fences.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:35 PM
Thome and Konerko aren't the problem. I don't usually mind when they swing for the fences. The last 2 or 3 weeks, Crede has been trying to hit the ball 600 feet every swing. Cintron has looked absolutely horrible lately, so of course, he has gotten into the swinging-from-the-shoetops rut, also.

Crede had the biggest clutch hit of the night for the Sox, and it was an opposite-field single with two outs. A nice piece of hitting. He also doubled into the gap. I agree Cintron is struggling, but there was NOTHING wrong with Joe's performance tonight. Did you watch the series in Kansas City? Joe was an absolute stud. Singles, homers, doubles, key RBIs all over the place. I attended the games in Kansas City. Did they show something different on TV? What am I missing here?

Lip Man 1
08-07-2006, 10:35 PM
Roman:

For what it's worth it is becomming an 'issue' with at least two of the folks who work in the Sox front office.

I'll leave it at that...not that there's anything the Sox can do about it anyway.

Lip

DickAllen72
08-07-2006, 10:35 PM
The schedule is about to get real tough. We can't continue to play like this. It's time to wake up.

The Sox need to win at least five out of the next six games to have a decent shot at the division title. That means they need to sweep at least one of the next two series.

They need to win four out of the next six to stay in a good position in the WC race. Anything less than three and three and it will be a very tough struggle just to make the playoffs.

The Sox, having now lost two in a row, are due for one of those eight game winning streaks about now. Man, would this be a great time for one! :gulp:

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:37 PM
Crede had the biggest clutch hit of the night for the Sox, and it was an opposite-field single with two outs. A nice piece of hitting. He also doubled into the gap. I agree Cintron is struggling, but there was NOTHING wrong with Joe's performance tonight. Did you watch the series in Kansas City? Joe was an absolute stud. Singles, homers, doubles, key RBIs all over the place. I attended the games in Kansas City. Did they show something different on TV? What am I missing here? Crede had a very good series, but that doesn't change his performance the past 2-3 weeks. His last bat aside, he had a good game. However, he is falling into the rut of swining for the fences as much as anyone else. This is why he is popping so many balls up lately.

cheezheadsoxfan
08-07-2006, 10:38 PM
Crede had the biggest clutch hit of the night for the Sox, and it was an opposite-field single with two outs. A nice piece of hitting. He also doubled into the gap. I agree Cintron is struggling, but there was NOTHING wrong with Joe's performance tonight. Did you watch the series in Kansas City? Joe was an absolute stud. Singles, homers, doubles, key RBIs all over the place. I attended the games in Kansas City. Did they show something different on TV? What am I missing here?

Thanks, you beat me to it.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:40 PM
Roman:

For what it's worth it is becomming an 'issue' with at least two of the folks who work in the Sox front office.

I'll leave it at that...not that there's anything the Sox can do about it anyway.

Lip
Well, I'm sure that has to do with the extra media clearance and extra cameras and stuff like that. I understand that it is probably a lot more of a hassle when the game is on ESPN. However, I am not going to make excuses for the crap we put out there tonight. It hasn't mattered what channel we have been on lately - we have lost. If the players are concerned about playing on ESPN, then they need a one way ticket to Kansas City.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:40 PM
Crede has a very good series, but that doesn't change his performance the past 2-3 weeks. His last bat aside, he had a good game. However, he is falling into the rut of swining for the fences as much as anyone else. This is why he is popping so many balls up lately.

Joe's stats for the last month: .313 avg., 7 HRs, 16 RBIs.

Acceptable performance, no?

soxchick20
08-07-2006, 10:41 PM
The Sox, having now lost two in a row, are due for one of those eight game winning streaks about now. Man, would this be a great time for one! :gulp:

Oh yes, it would.

I'm hoping, hoping, for a sweep of the yanks and taking at least 2 of 3 from detroit. Who's to say it can't happen? Man, i hope it does.

Grzegorz
08-07-2006, 10:44 PM
Yeah, Crede is the problem...

The pitching has been inadequate all year. Earlier in the year the White Sox out slugged teams to win.

Now, the noose tightens; the fight isn't for the division it is for the playoffs. I am sure the White Sox are pressing at bat but the issue here is the pitching. It's was the issue early in the season, the issue at present, and surely will be the issue in the future.

DickAllen72
08-07-2006, 10:45 PM
Oh yes, it would.

I'm hoping, hoping, for a sweep of the yanks and taking at least 2 of 3 from detroit. Who's to say it can't happen? Man, i hope it does.

I like the way you think! :wink:

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:46 PM
Joe's stats for the last month: .313 avg., 7 HRs, 16 RBIs.

Acceptable performance, no? OK, but how much of that came before the All-Star break? Crede is still performing, but I am seeing more frustration and bad swings out of him than any other. I noticed a couple weeks ago that Crede looked tired - he was taking bad cuts, and he was missing balls on defense that he would have had earlier in the year. Crede has been good, but I think we need to rest him more. We are going to need him down the stretch, if there even is one.

SouthSide_HitMen
08-07-2006, 10:47 PM
Second game I left early. Take ****ing Buehrle out after the second walk with two outs and a chance to get out of it.

La vida loca is getting old on the South Side. :angry:

The offense wasted a few chances and it is hard to win with 3 runs scored.

This is a make or break week - hopefully they are up for the challenge.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 10:50 PM
roman, you are correct to a certain extent. anyone who knows the game, can see you are correct, joe has been taking alot of big swings. but in all honesty, we just have to pitch it better, and our manager has to know when to pull people, and not be asking the catcher what he thinks. who's gettin paid to manage this club? i still wanna know why he didn't opt to get run and fire his team up a little. maybe we should have hit some of there hitters, he would have liked that...:o:

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:50 PM
OK, but how much of that came before the All-Star break? Crede is still performing, but I am seeing more frustration and bad swings out of him than any other. I noticed a couple weeks ago that Crede looked tired - he was taking bad cuts, and he was missing balls on defense that he would have had earlier in the year. Crede has been good, but I think we need to rest him more. We are going to need him down the stretch, if there even is one.

Not much of it came before the All-Star break. Those stats go back to July 7, exactly one month ago. So it's the Boston series, plus everything since the break. Joe struggled a bit when we played Texas at home, but he has collected home runs off the likes of Randy Johnson and Johan Santana in recent weeks.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:51 PM
roman, you are correct to a certain extent. anyone who knows the game, can see you are correct, joe has been taking alot of big swings. but in all honesty, we just have to pitch it better, and our manager has to know when to pull people, and not be asking the catcher what he thinks. who's gettin paid to manage this club? i still wanna know why he didn't opt to get run and fire his team up a little. maybe we should have hit some of there hitters, he would have liked that...:o:

So what if Crede has taken some big swings? Several of them have been producutive.

Grzegorz
08-07-2006, 10:52 PM
Crede has been good, but I think we need to rest him more. We are going to need him down the stretch, if there even is one.

There is a "stretch" and it begins tomorrow.

:smile:

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 10:52 PM
all i'm saying is he has popped out in some big situations... i have no problem with joe in general, he's had a nice year.. he's been swinging bigger the last month, it's a fact.

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 10:55 PM
Yeah, Crede is the problem...

The pitching has been inadequate all year. Earlier in the year the White Sox out slugged teams to win.

Now, the noose tightens; the fight isn't for the division it is for the playoffs. I am sure the White Sox are pressing at bat but the issue here is the pitching. It's was the issue early in the season, the issue at present, and surely will be the issue in the future.

I, for one, don't expect the pitching to "come around" at this juncture. It is what it is. So Ozzie needs to squeeze as many runs as he can get from his lineup.

Those of us who think the pitching is eventually going to shut everybody down as they did last year are probably still hung over from drinking the Championship Kool-Aid. That was then. Buerhle and "Half-game" Vazquez are now.......Let's roll!!!:dtroll:

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 10:56 PM
So what if Crede has taken some big swings? Several of them have been producutive.
I will admit that I am probably decieved by the increase in pop-ups lately (it is an old habit of his, and he hadn't done it much earlier in the season). However, and this is a judgment call, but I think his defense has not been as good lately as in April. A lot of balls have gotten by him that I think he would have had earlier in the year. That could only be due to fatigue, and his back condition. Either way, I would like to see him get at least one day off a week.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:57 PM
all i'm saying is he has popped out in some big situations... i have no problem with joe in general, he's had a nice year.. he's been swinging bigger the last month, it's a fact.

Fine, but it's also a fact that Joe has been one of the best and most productive hitters in the lineup over the last month.

JB98
08-07-2006, 10:58 PM
I will admit that I am probably decieved by the increase in pop-ups lately (it is an old habit of his, and he hadn't done it much earlier in the season). However, and this is a judgment call, but I think his defense has not been as good lately as in April. A lot of balls have gotten by him that I think he would have had earlier in the year. That could only be due to fatigue, and his back condition. Either way, I would like to see him get at least one day off a week.

It would be nice to do that, but given the tight pennant race, I'm not sure we have that luxury. Joe had a horrible series against Texas a few weeks back, where he popped up a number of times. But I think that slump was very short-lived.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 10:59 PM
your eyes aren't decieving you, it just isn't the crux of our problem. all one needs to do is look to the era.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 11:02 PM
It would be nice to do that, but given the tight pennant race, I'm not sure we have that luxury. Joe had a horrible series against Texas a few weeks back, where he popped up a number of times. But I think that slump was very short-lived.
We aren't losing much offensively putting Rob in at 3rd (all we are losing is power). Obviously, we lose a lot defensively, and that isn't a knock on Rob. Crede's back has been flaring up lately. You don't joke around with that. Add in the fatigue, and you need to rest him. It is better to rest him once a week now than for him to go on the DL or fall into a horrible slump in September because of both issues.

Frater Perdurabo
08-07-2006, 11:07 PM
Anyone can find plenty of instances where hitters fail to produce. These failures happen most of the time in wins and in losses. We notice them when the team loses. If Crede is hitting .313 in the last month - which is far above his career average and better than his average for this season (which is by far his career year), I'm more than satisfied with his production.

As others have said, the only thing keeping the Sox from winning far more games in the pitching. The starters have not been able to get out of jams, have walked too many batters, have gotten behind in too many counts and have had to groove strikes and given up hits and homers. The bullpen pitchers have been overexposed, reducing their effectiveness. In addition, each and every pitcher - rotation and pen - has had far more terrible outings than last year.

Want to know why the Sox are ten games out of first place?

Compare the team ERA of the Sox (4.64, 8th in AL) to that of the Tigers (3.69, 1st in AL).

JB98
08-07-2006, 11:10 PM
Anyone can find plenty of instances where hitters fail to produce. These failures happen most of the time in wins and in losses. We notice them when the team loses. If Crede is hitting .313 in the last month - which is far above his career average and better than his average for this season (which is by far his career year), I'm more than satisfied with his production.

As others have said, the only thing keeping the Sox from winning far more games in the pitching. The starters have not been able to get out of jams, have walked too many batters, have gotten behind in too many counts and have had to groove strikes and given up hits and homers. The bullpen pitchers have been overexposed, reducing their effectiveness. In addition, each and every pitcher - rotation and pen - has had far more terrible outings than last year.

Want to know why the Sox are ten games out of first place?

Compare the team ERA of the Sox (4.64, 8th in AL) to that of the Tigers (3.69, 1st in AL).

Our pitching staff is giving up a lot of big innings. Every game, our opponent has an inning where it scores three or four runs. Those are killers, especially when they come with two outs.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 11:12 PM
ok... please read my posts. first of all, i'm not just saying the things i'm saying because joe hasn't produced in certain situations. he has started to swing bigger, and if you know the game, you know what i'm talking about. it will tend to produce alot of pop outs. i am not even remotely saying joe is the problem here, as i said in my previous post, look to the era. joe has had a wonderful year, it looks as if he's been pressing a little lately, trying to force the ball out of the park. his success has been due to the fact that he stopped doing that this year. when things start slipping a little you tend to fall back into old habits, any athlete knows that.

southsideirish71
08-07-2006, 11:13 PM
Our pitching staff is giving up a lot of big innings. Every game, our opponent has an inning where it scores three or four runs. Those are killers, especially when they come with two outs.

How many times this season has OG not pulled a starting pitcher who is on the ropes past the 6th inning so he could get the guy a shot at getting the win. If Buerhle is pulled the minute he gets into trouble, this point is mute. But we give him an oppo to implode and he does. Part of the fault is for buerhle and part of it is to our manager who has no clue on when to pull a pitcher.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 11:15 PM
cosign southside.

JB98
08-07-2006, 11:16 PM
How many times this season has OG not pulled a starting pitcher who is on the ropes past the 6th inning so he could get the guy a shot at getting the win. If Buerhle is pulled the minute he gets into trouble, this point is mute. But we give him an oppo to implode and he does. Part of the fault is for buerhle and part of it is to our manager who has no clue on when to pull a pitcher.

Three times in the last week, Ozzie has held a conference on the mound, decided to leave the starter in and had it backfire in his face.

southsideirish71
08-07-2006, 11:18 PM
Three times in the last week, Ozzie has held a conference on the mound, decided to leave the starter in and had it backfire in his face.

It was the same exact situation.

Down by a single run late in the game. Our offense is good enough to scratch a run or 2 across. But you deflate the team when you give up a crooked number late in the game.

TheOldRoman
08-07-2006, 11:19 PM
The entire team has been complacent, especially the pitching.
Ozzie needs to have the patch on the left sleeves of the home jerseys ripped off. Maybe that will send a message - it doesn't matter what you did last year, step up. If something doesn't wake these players up, they aren't going to get a chance to earn a second patch.

SOXandILLINI
08-07-2006, 11:20 PM
please don't question the genius that is ozzie guillen, he won the world series.... oh, so did bob brenley.

cgaudin
08-07-2006, 11:25 PM
The entire team has been complacent, especially the pitching.
Ozzie needs to have the patch on the left sleeves of the home jerseys ripped off. Maybe that will send a message - it doesn't matter what you did last year, step up. If something doesn't wake these players up, they aren't going to get a chance to earn a second patch.

I likeeeee! If you don't play like a World Champion, you don't style like one either.

Brian26
08-07-2006, 11:32 PM
Cintron has really sucked lately too. I hope he comes out of his funk and soon.

Cintron had no chance against KRod in the 9th. That was brutal.

Brian26
08-07-2006, 11:34 PM
Want to know why the Sox are ten games out of first place?

The reason the Sox are 10 games out of first place is because they've got a team ahead of them that is on pace to win 112 games and is playing out of their minds. Put the Sox in any other division, and they are either leading or within a game of first place.

ZombieRob
08-07-2006, 11:37 PM
After the recent Buerhle struggles ,do you maybe shut him down on the 15 day DL and call up a starter from AAA or do you take the chance and let him try and pitch his way out of it? ..Me im leaning toward shutting him down...just not sure .I dont buy the apologists known as Rongy's theory that its confidence at time M.B looks to be laboring out there and throwing alot of pitches.

batmanZoSo
08-07-2006, 11:42 PM
Garbage.

Buehrle sucks, period. He's not helping our cause. The umpires suck. Did we run over one of their dogs? Escobar was due.

Garbage.

Maybe tomorrow the tear will begin. Go get 'em.

JB98
08-07-2006, 11:43 PM
After the recent Buerhle struggles ,do you maybe shut him down on the 15 day DL and call up a starter from AAA or do you take the chance and let him try and pitch his way out of it? ..Me im leaning toward shutting him down...just not sure .I dont buy the apologists known as Rongy's theory that its confidence at time M.B looks to be laboring out there and throwing alot of pitches.

No, stick with him. Do you think Charlie Haeger is a better bet in the heat of a pennant race than Mark Buerhle? I don't. I'm unhappy with Buerhle's performance, but we have no choice but to stand by him and everyone else in the rotation.

SoxSpeed22
08-07-2006, 11:43 PM
Ozzie now has a bullpen to work with, he should use it.

ZombieRob
08-07-2006, 11:46 PM
No, stick with him. Do you think Charlie Haeger is a better bet in the heat of a pennant race than Mark Buerhle? I don't. I'm unhappy with Buerhle's performance, but we have no choice but to stand by him and everyone else in the rotation.

I see your point .But as for Charlie Haeger just becuse of one bad start im not going to say hes not ready either,one start its hard to judge a pitcher especially a knuckleballer.

goon
08-07-2006, 11:49 PM
The reason the Sox are 10 games out of first place is because they've got a team ahead of them that is on pace to win 112 games and is playing out of their minds. Put the Sox in any other division, and they are either leading or within a game of first place.

very true, but i don't think you can deny that this team isn't playing "well". for the talent that this team has on it's roster it is makes me sick to watch them in some games that they just simply throw away.


this is a team that has been winning strictly on the fact that we have a talented group of players, not because of chemistry or heart or whatever makes a championship team. i don't know if the players are just trying to hard or starting to just not care... i sure hope that isn't the case because the lineup sure as hell seems to never give up. it's tough to defend the lackluster pitching, questionable moves by guillen, podsednik's inconsistency, lack of small ball....

it's hard to watch a team that should be dominate go out every other game and piss it away. what can you do? hope they come out of it. i'm behind the sox until the end, it would just a shame if we have to look back at this season down the road and say, "that team should have been so much better than they were." all the pieces are there.... what the hell is the problem?

JB98
08-07-2006, 11:50 PM
I see your point .But as for Charlie Haeger just becuse of one bad start im not going to say hes not ready either,one start its hard to judge a pitcher especially a knuckleballer.

I'm not judging Haeger on that one start either. I just don't think now is the time to throw him in the fire, unless we are forced to because of an injury situation. Every game is too important now, and I'm not willing to gamble on an unproven rookie. Given the choice, I'll gamble that Buerhle gets it figured out.

cgaudin
08-08-2006, 12:12 AM
very true, but i don't think you can deny that this team isn't playing "well". for the talent that this team has on it's roster it is makes me sick to watch them in some games that they just simply throw away.


this is a team that has been winning strictly on the fact that we have a talented group of players, not because of chemistry or heart or whatever makes a championship team. i don't know if the players are just trying to hard or starting to just not care... i sure hope that isn't the case because the lineup sure as hell seems to never give up. it's tough to defend the lackluster pitching, questionable moves by guillen, podsednik's inconsistency, lack of small ball....

it's hard to watch a team that should be dominate go out every other game and piss it away. what can you do? hope they come out of it. i'm behind the sox until the end, it would just a shame if we have to look back at this season down the road and say, "that team should have been so much better than they were." all the pieces are there.... what the hell is the problem?


Can't argue there. Clearly the two most talented teams, by far, are the Yankees and White Sox.....and the Sox supposedly had the better pitching. I notice one thing about Joe Torre, he doesn't even think twice about pulling a starter early if the game starts to pull away from him. Guillen seems to have "too much" patience at times. He's either overconfident his starters won't let him down, or he's scared ****less to use the bullpen. You tell me.

I contend that by leaving Buerhle to try to pitch himself out of the 7th, Guillen may have done more damage than good to Buerhle's psyche. Whatever, he had "found" his previous start to build on, now he has to fight his demons again to find some confidence, cause he sure lost the little he had tonite. Instead of a decent 6 and 2/3 innings with a chance to win only down 3 to 1, the start is perceived (rightly so) as another complete meltdown. Even if they had lost 3 to 1, we would be writing about the "old" Buerhle being back, a quality start. Now, we're scrambling to find hope that Buerhle can hold it together for the stretch run.

slobes
08-08-2006, 12:19 AM
Well that sucked. There's not really anyone in particular to blame this one on. Buehrle didn't pitch anywhere near great, but our offense was terrible too. We reeeeally need to get our act together soon.

CaptainBallz
08-08-2006, 12:20 AM
This is a major, major problem here. We have OG who wants to instill confidence in his SP's by having confidence in them to get these big outs. That has not been happening. We also have seen OG go to the bullpen in situations where they really need to give the SP's a break and shut the opponent down. That has not been happening. We've seen the Sox with chances to blow things open offensively with men in scoring position and opponents' pitchers worried, only to whiff then pop out or GIDP. It has not been happening. We've seen horrible, HORRIBLE umpiring...I'm not one to use this as an excuse often, but tonight was abysmal, ABYSMAL!! There should be a rampant overhaul next season of major league umpires...Ridiculous!

PROBLEMS!!!

I haven't read the entire thread, but it seems Buerhle-hate is abound, which I disagree with. I don't consider 3-solo shots to be a piss-poor outing. Definitely, not a lights-out outing, but we've seen worse. I refuse to consider the rest of the game because he should've been pulled...bad Ozzie, bad. I understand the logic, but at this point he needs to put the emotional zippity-doo-da of the SP "W" or the "one more batter" behind and go with the Colbertian gut. It seems everybody else knows when a bad decision is being made. It's time for OG to start listening to himself and stop being so sensitive to the players frail egos.

On that note, Die Yankee scum, Die!!!

rowand33
08-08-2006, 12:30 AM
Buehle's combined numbers from July and August (7 starts):

0-6 33.1 IP 40 ER 54 H 7 BB 17 K 11 HR 10.80 ERA 1.83 WHIP

that's ****ing horrible.

maybe the guy needs to go on the DL for a couple of a starts and let BMac pitch...

tromcoe
08-08-2006, 12:30 AM
Come on now!! Let's cinch it up and hunker down. We still are in a position to determine our own fate here.

Let's get those Yank's tomorrow!!!!

Lip Man 1
08-08-2006, 01:05 AM
Goon:

I think the 'problem' centers around a few items. I can't prove any of them, it's just my opinion.

1. A long intense 2005 season culminating in late October.

2. A shorter then 'normal' off season.

3. The goofy WBC which forced two Sox pitchers to begin regular work outs and throwing a month earlier then 'normal.' (On top of an already shorter then normal off season...) (Not that I'm complaining about that fact!)

4. The pressure that comes with 'repeating' and knowing that as champs every club from the Red Sox to the Triple A Royals is going to come after you harder then usual.

5. At times an 'inability' to put away bad teams, at times 'playing down' to the opposition.

6. At times the inability to finish sweeping teams. (I think they have lost the final game in a series with a sweep at stake eight or nine times...)

7. Ozzie is still learning his craft from a manager's standpoint, when to go by the book, when to go with his gut. It seemed like everything worked last season when he made a move...that isn't the case in 2006.

To show how inconsistent the club has been, their longest winning streak since June 24th (the final win in a nine game streak) has been three games. (July 4-6)

It will be an interesting off season regardless of how the final two months play out and regardless of if the Sox can claim the wild card spot and get to the post-season. I have a feeling Kenny (and to a certain extent Ozzie based on his comments) isn't happy about the way some things have gone.

Lip

nasox
08-08-2006, 01:07 AM
And Sox fans are officially morons. At least the ones who are calling for Buehrle's demotion to AAA. Friggin idiots.

TheDarkGundam
08-08-2006, 01:11 AM
Alright. No more losing.
Starting tomorrow, we win every game.
Also, I'm really sick of the tiggers. How about they do something nice for once and just start losing on purpose. Nobody cared about them for years, and now people care about them. When will they realize that everyone liked things how they were before?

IronFisk
08-08-2006, 01:24 AM
Buehrle represents the very reason why we are not ahead in the Wild Card race - if he was pitching up to form, we'd be in far better shape. Just have to hope he regains that poise in time. Seesh!

palehozenychicty
08-08-2006, 01:38 AM
not a quality game at all, by burls, ozzie, et. al. we gotta hunker down this week and slow down the yanks/tigers. that's all that needs to be said.

soxinem1
08-08-2006, 01:40 AM
Saw bits and pieces of the Tigers tonight, and watched the Sox/Angels.

Escobar coming in 1-9, ERA over 6.00 against the Sox? That sure improved today.

Hawk and DJ griping about 'bad calls' in the 7th when Buerhle pitched against Tim Salmon. Mucho complaino about nothing, only one pitch was close. Then Guillen leaves him in? Ugh, knew this was coming.

Meanwhile, the Tigers jump on the hottest starter in MLB and don't let up. They said Liriano might have been hurt, but he was clocked 94-95 when I saw him pitch. Tigers saw blood in the first, KO'd him before the fifth.

This repeat as division champs is not happening, and if this uninspired play continues, this $100 million team is going down the tubes.

Boondock Saint
08-08-2006, 02:00 AM
And yeah, anytime Pods wants to get going is fine by me.

You mean out of the city, right? Because I'd like for him to do that...

TheOldRoman
08-08-2006, 02:26 AM
Saw bits and pieces of the Tigers tonight, and watched the Sox/Angels.

Escobar coming in 1-9, ERA over 6.00 against the Sox? That sure improved today.

Hawk and DJ griping about 'bad calls' in the 7th when Buerhle pitched against Tim Salmon. Mucho complaino about nothing, only one pitch was close. Then Guillen leaves him in? Ugh, knew this was coming.

Meanwhile, the Tigers jump on the hottest starter in MLB and don't let up. They said Liriano might have been hurt, but he was clocked 94-95 when I saw him pitch. Tigers saw blood in the first, KO'd him before the fifth.

This repeat as division champs is not happening, and if this uninspired play continues, this $100 million team is going down the tubes. :rolleyes:
There was only one close pitch? There were many "close" pitches. There were several balls called that a)painted the outside of the corners and are usually called strikes, and b) the Angels got those locations called strikes for them the whole night. As a matter of fact, the Angels were getting pitches 6 inches further outside in each direction of the "balls" that Buehrle threw. Besides that, there were 2-3 pitches that were, without a doubt, IN the strikezone - over the plate, knees to belt - that were called balls that inning. Buehrle wasn't good today, you can't hide that. But the umpiring was ****ing horrible. There is no excuse for the umpiring we saw tonight. You can't mask it. Buehrle could have either thrown a meatball down the heart of plate or walked them. When a strike isn't a strike, you can't win.

QCIASOXFAN
08-08-2006, 02:37 AM
Buehrle represents the very reason why we are not ahead in the Wild Card race - if he was pitching up to form, we'd be in far better shape. Just have to hope he regains that poise in time. Seesh!You hit it right on the head. He is supposed to be our stopper. I know he has pitched a little bit better lately but he still should have made the pitch when we needed it. I don't blame Ozzie that much for leaving him in to long because that is what Ozzie is going to do. Hes been doing it for almost 3 years now. He loooves to leave his starters in to show them confidence. I may not always agree with it either but that is what he is going to do, I know it, you know it and everybody in the league knows it. He even said he was going to keep his starters on a "short leash" about 2 weeks ago and has left them in long a few times since then. I don't agree with this as much as the next person, but I hate how some people are so shocked when he does it.

soxinem1
08-08-2006, 02:41 AM
:rolleyes:
There was only one close pitch? There were many "close" pitches. There were several balls called that a)painted the outside of the corners and are usually called strikes, and b) the Angels got those locations called strikes for them the whole night. As a matter of fact, the Angels were getting pitches 6 inches further outside in each direction of the "balls" that Buehrle threw. Besides that, there were 2-3 pitches that were, without a doubt, IN the strikezone - over the plate, knees to belt - that were called balls that inning. Buehrle wasn't good today, you can't hide that. But the umpiring was ****ing horrible. There is no excuse for the umpiring we saw tonight. You can't mask it. Buehrle could have either thrown a meatball down the heart of plate or walked them. When a strike isn't a strike, you can't win.

I'm not sure about that, Roman. Sure the zone sucked, but Cooper called the same zone all night, and I heard the Angels dugout griping the first six innings pretty good.

I disagree with you on this one. Three times after the realclose pitch to Salmon, Buehrle tried nibbling the same corner, and kept missing further each time. Geez, if they ain't calling it, why keep going there? What happened to Buehrle busting the hitters in? Or his cutter? His stuff just plain sucks right now. His K's, BB/9 and H/9 are all subpar and it shows.

I fully realize that a pitch is a strike once it hits the zone, not where it ends up, but if we are going to start blaming umps when both teams were throwing a fit, we do not have a chance. Escobar got squeezed on quite a few pitches, and followed up with either a good fastball or a good splitter.

Truth is, Buerhle has been getting hammered on first pitch strikes, and 2-1, 3-1 pitches for the past six weeks. Until he adjusts and starts attacking the strike zone again, he can count on his first losing season in 2006.

TheOldRoman
08-08-2006, 02:47 AM
I'm not sure about that, Roman. Sure the zone sucked, but Cooper called the same zone all night, and I heard the Angels dugout griping the first six innings pretty good.

I disagree with you on this one. Three times after the realclose pitch to Salmon, Buehrle tried nibbling the same corner, and kept missing further each time. I fully realize that a pitch is a strike once it hits the zone, not where it ends up, but if we are going to start blaming umps when both teams were throwing a fit, we do not have a chance. Escobar got squeezed on quite a few pitches, and followed up with either a good fastball or a good splitter.

Truth is, Buerhle has been getting hammered on first pitch strikes, and 2-1, 3-1 pitches for the past six weeks. Until he adjusts and starts attacking the strike zone again, he can count on his first losing season in 2006.
Yeah, I know the Angels were complaining, and I thought it was funny. The zone wasn't even close to consistant. The whole game it was bad, but in the 7th inning it really fell apart. After the top of the 7th, the strikezone for our hitters got much bigger. We got a few chest high strikes and strikes 8 inches inside after that. Buehrle had ONE (1) borderline pitch go his way the whole night, and that was the strike three against Salmon in the middle innings. The Angels were probably complaining about the one pitch. Escobar's ERA would be 1.02 if he had this strikezone every game.

Grzegorz
08-08-2006, 05:47 AM
The goofy WBC which forced two Sox pitchers to begin regular work outs and throwing a month earlier then 'normal.' (On top of an already shorter then normal off season...) (Not that I'm complaining about that fact!)

I have a feeling Kenny (and to a certain extent Ozzie based on his comments) isn't happy about the way some things have gone.

Lip

Lip, no one "forced" Garcia or Vasquez to participate, they did it on their own.

I want to get to the White Sox convention this year; I am sure there will be a shakeup. Pitching, speed, and defense won the World Series. KW & Ozzie know that fact.

The reality is finding those players to provide the defense, speed, and pitching... do we have the arms in the minors? Or, are deals in the offing?

soxfanreggie
08-08-2006, 08:54 AM
I think of our $100 million team this way-I like them. I don't know if we will win the division or WC, but my hope when this season began was to repeat as WS champions. We can do that as a division champ or WC. My guess is the Sox and Tigers will both make the playoffs and meet in the ALCS. :D:

jenn2080
08-08-2006, 09:02 AM
Heres a food for thought. The Cubs are almost as close to first as we are. We are 10 they are 14. I think I am going to vomit.

salty99
08-08-2006, 09:08 AM
Heres a food for thought. The Cubs are almost as close to first as we are. We are 10 they are 14. I think I am going to vomit.

Here's more food for thought. The Cubs are 19 games worse than the Sox and the National League sucks!

jenn2080
08-08-2006, 09:11 AM
Lip, no one "forced" Garcia or Vasquez to participate, they did it on their own.

I want to get to the White Sox convention this year; I am sure there will be a shakeup. Pitching, speed, and defense won the World Series. KW & Ozzie know that fact.

The reality is finding those players to provide the defense, speed, and pitching... do we have the arms in the minors? Or, are deals in the offing?

Exactly how long are we going to blame the WBC and the All Star break for this teams suck streak? I have full faith in this team but I am not going to use WBC and All Star break as an excuse. Sure they may get into a funk after but they should be able to get themselves out and perform up to par. Which is not what half our pitching staff is doing.

Law11
08-08-2006, 09:17 AM
How about the fact that the reality is MB and Freddy have pitch a ridicuolous amount of innings over the past 3 year and like anyone you get tired..

And yet we are in a pennant race which prior to last year is all anyone could want... We'd be salavating at a playoff birth and that is something we have a legitamite shot at...

Dont care how we get there.. just get there..
Remember Houston was a WC last year..

Sad
08-08-2006, 09:21 AM
Dont care how we get there.. just get there..
Remember Houston was a WC last year..

and the two years before that the WC won it all...
I don't see that happening with the SOX this year... I really hope I'm wrong...

Law11
08-08-2006, 09:27 AM
and the two years before that the WC won it all...
I don't see that happening with the SOX this year... I really hope I'm wrong...

me too but whattya gonna do... there are bigger tradjedies in life...
I said last November I dont care if we ever win it again.. I experienced something I never thought I'd know.

That being said you never know how many chances you'll have this late in the season to compete for a title and I want it this year as bad as last and the year before etc...

It drives my family nuts..
I'm summer guy now.. Sox relentlessly on the tube etc..
Winter guy is there for the family more... Bears just once a week.

itsnotrequired
08-08-2006, 09:30 AM
Not the way I wanted to start the homestand.

Sig update time...

kittle42
08-08-2006, 10:34 AM
Heres a food for thought. The Cubs are almost as close to first as we are. We are 10 they are 14. I think I am going to vomit.

That's a pretty meaningless stat.

jenn2080
08-08-2006, 11:01 AM
That's a pretty meaningless stat.


it was not mean to be anything for real

itsnotrequired
08-08-2006, 11:12 AM
That's a pretty meaningless stat.

It does help to point out the crapiness of the NL Central.

ode to veeck
08-08-2006, 12:13 PM
We lost a tough game last night that should have been a lot closer, though I place the lion's share of the blame on Ozziie, not Buhrle. Ozzie's consistently been leaving starters in too long in obvious situations where they need to come out late in the game. I can think of a situation he's done it with just about every one of our starting mound studs in the last few weeks. He had two obvious cracks at it last night, 1st with two men on and then with the bags loaded, yet he still had Coop put the phone back down and left Mark in to essentially end the game in the 7th.

C'mon Ozzie, you're better than that!

Lip Man 1
08-08-2006, 12:34 PM
Grzeg:

Peer and political pressure 'forced' Garcia and Vazquez into participating.

Ozzie himself talked about that pressure in the Latin American countries to play in this farce.

I guess you missed that story.

Jenn:

No one is saying it's 'the reason.' I'm saying it's PART of the reason. Instead of those two relaxing and recouping for another month, they had to start working out and throwing regularly earlier then normal. That's a factor.

Lip

Gavin
08-08-2006, 12:59 PM
These very punny thread titles are getting a little too cute.

kitekrazy
08-08-2006, 01:09 PM
Ozzie needs to stop asking our pitchers if they are tired, and starting using his hands to motion to the pen for a reliever.

This year's bullpen isn't last year's either.

kitekrazy
08-08-2006, 01:16 PM
And Sox fans are officially morons. At least the ones who are calling for Buehrle's demotion to AAA. Friggin idiots.

Wouldn't they have to put him on waivers or something like that?
Maybe he'll b better in Sept.

thomas35forever
08-08-2006, 01:19 PM
These very punny thread titles are getting a little too cute.
Cute is as cute does.

BeviBall!
08-08-2006, 03:08 PM
These very punny thread titles are getting a little too cute.

Suggestions?