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Viva Medias B's
08-06-2006, 06:20 PM
Jackie Robinson was yesterday's winner as the "Best Dodger Ever."

I know it's late (been busy), but here is the poll for the Dodgers' archrival. I will post this poll for the New York/San Francisco Giants tonight and the poll for the Cleveland Indians tomorrow morning. You will have the normal 24 hours to vote in each poll.

buehrle4cy05
08-06-2006, 06:22 PM
Willie Mays.

It will be interesting to see if anybody picks Barroid.

PushnThaEscalade
08-06-2006, 06:26 PM
Yes I voted for Barry! Even if he didn't use, he still would probably be at or above Mays in HR and SB numbers.

JUribe1989
08-06-2006, 06:29 PM
I think there could be a good argument that Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were both better than Babe Ruth. IMO, those are the 3 best players of all time.

buehrle4cy05
08-06-2006, 06:33 PM
I think there could be a good argument that Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were both better than Babe Ruth. IMO, those are the 3 best players of all time.

It's tough. I think the reason why Ruth is the best ever is because he could have been a great pitcher instead of a great hitter. He also is one of the main reasons why baseball is ingrained in the fabric of our country.

Willie Mays hands down is the second-best player ever. I just wish I could have seen him play...but that was before my time.:whiner:

palehozenychicty
08-06-2006, 06:33 PM
The Say Hey kid.

batmanZoSo
08-06-2006, 06:52 PM
Toughest one yet, eh?

It's actually a shame only one can win. Ott and McCovey were both phenominal. But you can't deny Mays. Probably on anyone's top 3 or 5 for all teams all time.

Johnny Mostil
08-06-2006, 07:00 PM
I might have listed Mathewson before Marichal, but neither ought to beat out Mays . . .

DoItForDanPasqua
08-06-2006, 08:55 PM
You're right, it is a travesty not to list Big Six on the ballot: he once pitched three shutouts in six days during the World Series. On most teams he would have won but, Say Hey.

Johnny Mostil
08-06-2006, 09:23 PM
You're right, it is a travesty not to list Big Six on the ballot: he once pitched three shutouts in six days during the World Series. On most teams he would have won but, Say Hey.

Good grief, I'd forgotten about the '05 Series. I was just thinking of the 373 Ws. Different era, I know, but, yeah, that was remarkable. And McGinnity did alright as well--the Giants didn't give up an earned run in that Series. In fact, the Athletics' pitchers only gave up 7 ER in 5 games. I'm not sure how many losers gave up fewer in a Series, but I'm guessing not many.

Like you said, gotta go with Mays, but I'm still surprised Christy didn't make the ballot . . .

The Racehorse
08-06-2006, 10:04 PM
Bonds or Bust!!!! HA Ha ha hA HA ha Ha ha hA HA ha!!!!!! :kneeslap:


I vote for Willie Mays... except he'll win by a mile, and deservedly so... so I'll vote for Mel Ott instead in order to get the Ott'ster on the board.

SoxSpeed22
08-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Christy Matthewson gets my vote.

TornLabrum
08-06-2006, 11:32 PM
I also voted for Mathewson. Of course he's not on the ballot. Morons.

slobes
08-06-2006, 11:40 PM
Say Hey, hands down

Chips
08-06-2006, 11:49 PM
Christy Matthewson gets my vote.

Mine too.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-07-2006, 05:49 AM
I'm voting for Mathewson. I will also write-in John McGraw.

Johnny Mostil
08-07-2006, 06:08 AM
I also voted for Mathewson. Of course he's not on the ballot. Morons.

I'm too technologically illiterate (or just plain ol' lazy) to find these ballots at mlb.com--which is a good thing because I'd probably end up wasting my time casting write-in votes for about half the teams . . .

Johnny Mostil
08-07-2006, 06:27 AM
I'm voting for Mathewson. I will also write-in John McGraw.

For some reason I can't think of McGraw without thinking of this (http://baseballguru.com/omi/FAUSTANDTHEGIANTS.htm) guy . . .

BigPapaPump
08-07-2006, 06:56 AM
I voted for Mays, but if I could do it over again I would write in Will Clark.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-07-2006, 07:12 AM
For some reason I can't think of McGraw without thinking of this (http://baseballguru.com/omi/FAUSTANDTHEGIANTS.htm) guy . . .
I won a nickle from myself, figuring that's who the link led to. For whatever reason, I associate Woo-woo with Faust.
Frank Deford wrote a nice book, entitled The Old Ball Game. It's about McGraw and Mathewson, their relationship, the New York Giants, and the birth of modern baseball. Mathewson won 373 games in 17 seasons. More succintly, he won 369 games in 15 seasons. That's 24 per year. You have to go back to 19th century guys like Old Hoss Radburn to find more impressive stats. He was the best pitcher in the NL for 8-9 years (1903-11 or 12 ) and from 1911-14 he and Pete Alexander were the best hurlers in the NL. Regardless of stats, Mathewson has always been one of my favorite players.

Johnny Mostil
08-07-2006, 08:08 AM
For whatever reason, I associate Woo-woo with Faust.

That's much more reasonable than associating McGraw with him . . .

batmanZoSo
08-07-2006, 08:21 AM
I voted for Mays, but if I could do it over again I would write in Will Clark.

Yeah, those are comparable players. :unsure:

I'm upset that Kurt Manwaring isn't even on the ballot! :mad:

Railsplitter
08-07-2006, 08:30 AM
William Howard Mays


No doubt, and he played significantly in both places.

Ott is the best who only played in NY. Mc Covey the best who only played in SF
Best Pitcher, Christy Matthewson 372 0f his 373 wins were with the Giants

TornLabrum
08-07-2006, 08:37 AM
I'm voting for Mathewson. I will also write-in John McGraw.

I'm assuming that this vote is for players rather than managers. McGraw only played in 59 games with the Giants.

BigPapaPump
08-07-2006, 10:10 AM
Yeah, those are comparable players. :unsure:

I'm upset that Kurt Manwaring isn't even on the ballot! :mad:

Will was one of my favorite players growing up. How can you not love a guy who hits a GS against the cubs in the playoffs?:cool:

I want Mags back
08-07-2006, 10:41 AM
im not surprised by the outcome of this poll

eastchicagosoxfan
08-07-2006, 06:09 PM
I'm assuming that this vote is for players rather than managers. McGraw only played in 59 games with the Giants.
I saw that Connie Mack was given some consideration with the A's, so why not offer the same consideration to his NL counterpart, McGraw. I doubt McGraw shows up on the players for the Orioles.

TornLabrum
08-07-2006, 06:12 PM
I saw that Connie Mack was given some consideration with the A's, so why not offer the same consideration to his NL counterpart, McGraw. I doubt McGraw shows up on the players for the Orioles.

No, he won't be there, and neither will George Sisler who will get my vote.

Johnny Mostil
08-07-2006, 06:23 PM
No, he won't be there, and neither will George Sisler who will get my vote.

Mine, too . . .

RKMeibalane
08-07-2006, 06:28 PM
Mays

eastchicagosoxfan
08-07-2006, 07:12 PM
No, he won't be there, and neither will George Sisler who will get my vote.
Mine, too . . .

Mr.'s Mostil and Labrum, I wonder if a legitimate thread exist from the Baltimore Orioles of Of McGraw, Kelley, Keeler, and Robinson, to the modern Orioles? The old AL Orioles were moved to New York, and became the Yankees, while the old NL Orioles became the nucleus for the Brooklyn Superbas, and later the Dodgers. I don't believe there's a direct connection to St. Louis and the Browns. Do the modern Orioles, pay tribute to the great teams of the 1890's, as well as Jack Dunn's great Three I teams? I don't know, perhaps they do, maybe they don't. A great book on the old Orioles is Burt Solomon's Where They Ain't. When I read it, I think, the more times change, the nore they remain the same. By the way, I doubt Sisler appears on any ballot. ESPN doesn't have any footage of him.

Johnny Mostil
08-07-2006, 09:38 PM
Mine, too . . .

Mr.'s Mostil and Labrum, I wonder if a legitimate thread exist from the Baltimore Orioles of Of McGraw, Kelley, Keeler, and Robinson, to the modern Orioles? The old AL Orioles were moved to New York, and became the Yankees, while the old NL Orioles became the nucleus for the Brooklyn Superbas, and later the Dodgers. I don't believe there's a direct connection to St. Louis and the Browns. Do the modern Orioles, pay tribute to the great teams of the 1890's, as well as Jack Dunn's great Three I teams? I don't know, perhaps they do, maybe they don't. A great book on the old Orioles is Burt Solomon's Where They Ain't. When I read it, I think, the more times change, the nore they remain the same. By the way, I doubt Sisler appears on any ballot. ESPN doesn't have any footage of him.

Interesting question. I consider the Browns the direct ancestor of the current Orioles, and the other Oriole teams you mentioned ancestors of other teams.

Regarding Sisler, a friend kindly sent me all the ballots (I'm too technologically illiterate to find them), and, indeed, he doesn't appear on any. That's remarkable for somebody who may have defined his position (at least IMO) about as well as Gehrig did. Of course, Gary Cooper never played George Sisler in a movie, did he? (And, ECSF, your ESPN explanation on the ballot is better still . . .)

I've also seen the Twins ballot barely pays attention to their Washington roots--and doesn't include the second-winningest pitcher in history . . . but we're getting ahead of ourselves here . . .

TornLabrum
08-07-2006, 09:52 PM
Mine, too . . .

Mr.'s Mostil and Labrum, I wonder if a legitimate thread exist from the Baltimore Orioles of Of McGraw, Kelley, Keeler, and Robinson, to the modern Orioles? The old AL Orioles were moved to New York, and became the Yankees, while the old NL Orioles became the nucleus for the Brooklyn Superbas, and later the Dodgers. I don't believe there's a direct connection to St. Louis and the Browns. Do the modern Orioles, pay tribute to the great teams of the 1890's, as well as Jack Dunn's great Three I teams? I don't know, perhaps they do, maybe they don't. A great book on the old Orioles is Burt Solomon's Where They Ain't. When I read it, I think, the more times change, the nore they remain the same. By the way, I doubt Sisler appears on any ballot. ESPN doesn't have any footage of him.

As you said, the old Orioles were knocked out of the NL, and most of their best players went to Brooklyn, even before they folded. McGraw stayed in Baltimore because of business interests until the franchise went under. I really don't know if the succeeding minor league franchise had any carryover in ownership, etc. (even like the sale of the franchise) to the NL team.

The current O's franchise actually started in Milwaukee and moved to St. Louis in 1902 (iirc). The Browns ("First in booze, first in shoes, and last in the American League) are a team the current franchise seems to ignore for pretty obvious reasons.

The Yankees franchise is the direct result of John McGraw's actions in Baltimore. McGraw was the bad boy of the AL, carrying the tradition of cheating and bad sportsmanship that the old Orioles and McGraw in particular were known for. Ban Johnson was fed up with McGraw's antics and resorted to frequent fines and suspensions.

The last one was the straw that broke the camel's back. McGraw packed up and took himself and most of his best players to New York where John Brush was waiting for them with open arms. That team along with Christy Mathewson became the great Giants team of the early 1900s. The Orioles were in shambles. IIRC, Brush was at least a partial owner of the Orioles and he pretty much pulled out. The league took over ownership, and stocked the roster with players from the other teams. IIRC the Sox' contribution was Clark Griffith.

Here's a list of at least some oft he players McGraw took with him when he went to New York: Dan McGann, Roger Bresnahan, Cy Seymour, and Joe McGinnity. All were important pieces of the later Giants champions.

Johnny Mostil
08-07-2006, 10:27 PM
The current O's franchise actually started in Milwaukee and moved to St. Louis in 1902 (iirc). The Browns ("First in booze, first in shoes, and last in the American League) are a team the current franchise seems to ignore for pretty obvious reasons.

You recall this correctly. Something I seem to recall, maybe not correctly, is that while the Browns had the worst record in the AL during their time in St. Louis, the Orioles, at one point, had the best record in the AL during their time in Baltimore. One might think they'd have touted the turnaround, if nothing else. Then again, time has dulled the comparison, as has the Orioles' less stellar record of the past two decades . . .