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Paulwny
02-18-2002, 07:52 PM
http://www.canoe.ca/Slam020218/mlb_durham-ap.html

OfficerKarkovice
02-18-2002, 07:57 PM
And manager Jerry Manuel said Monday he might experiment with Durham batting third and Frank Thomas fourth. During a stint as the No. 3 hitter last year, Durham batted .299 in 97 at-bats.

COME ON!!! Jerry...they are handing you a perfect lineup with Ray in the 2 hole...you cannot possibly screw this one up. Wait...oh man. :?:

FarWestChicago
02-18-2002, 07:58 PM
It was nice to see Ray mention working on OBP. But, he didn't mention hustling for ground balls. Instead he talked about keeping his errors down.

:buddylee

Works for me!

Daver
02-18-2002, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice


COME ON!!! Jerry...they are handing you a perfect lineup with Ray in the 2 hole...you cannot possibly screw this one up. Wait...oh man. :?:

A switch hitter in the three hole makes a lot of sense Kark.

OfficerKarkovice
02-18-2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by daver


A switch hitter in the three hole makes a lot of sense Kark.

True but you know how Frank feels about moving out of the 3rd spot and really why mess with things...plus then who do we move to the 2? We need Jose at the bottom to split up our right handed guys and God forbid we move Buddy Lee up that high.

GASHWOUND
02-18-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice


True but you know how Frank feels about moving out of the 3rd spot and really why mess with things...plus then who do we move to the 2? We need Jose at the bottom to split up our right handed guys and God forbid we move Buddy Lee up that high.

Hey, JM moved Carlos Lee to the 2 spot a few times, would that work? Uhh, don't think so. But Durham in the 3 hole? That 3 hole usually is for someone with good On-base skills, like taking walks. Ray can't and Frank can. Either put Ray in the 2 spot or stick him down in the order and put Jose in that 2 spot. I like Jose at in the 2 hole. He's great in taking walks, wich would lead to more RBI opportunities for our 3-4-and 5th hitters. So I like it like this
Lofton
Valentin
Thomas
Ordonez
Konerko
Durham
Lee
Johnson
Clayton

RichH55
02-18-2002, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


Hey, JM moved Carlos Lee to the 2 spot a few times, would that work? Uhh, don't think so. But Durham in the 3 hole? That 3 hole usually is for someone with good On-base skills, like taking walks. Ray can't and Frank can. Either put Ray in the 2 spot or stick him down in the order and put Jose in that 2 spot. I like Jose at in the 2 hole. He's great in taking walks, wich would lead to more RBI opportunities for our 3-4-and 5th hitters. So I like it like this
Lofton
Valentin
Thomas
Ordonez
Konerko
Durham
Lee
Johnson
Clayton

I'm as big a Jose fan as anyone, but Ray(especially in a contract year) makes more sense at number 2.....Jose at 6 and Carlos at 7...good Leftie/Rightie strings and less pressure for Carlos could add up to a real explosive O

czalgosz
02-18-2002, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by RichH55


I'm as big a Jose fan as anyone, but Ray(especially in a contract year) makes more sense at number 2.....Jose at 6 and Carlos at 7...good Leftie/Rightie strings and less pressure for Carlos could add up to a real explosive O

Valentin was never a true #2 hitter - he's too much of a free swinger. I don't want to discourage that in Valentin, which is why I heartily support moving him to the 6 hole. Durham can make better contact if he wants to than Valentin can (and he strikes out less - the #2 hitter should strike out less than anyone, IMO) but he's impatient, which is why he's a much better #2 hitter, especially lately. We simply have not had a better option leading off than Durham these past few years.

kermittheefrog
02-18-2002, 11:23 PM
I think Durham in the three spot would be pretty dumb. I want one of our best hitters there, Thomas, if not him Magglio. It gaurentees the opposition will see one of them in the first inning.

Daver
02-18-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I think Durham in the three spot would be pretty dumb. I want one of our best hitters there, Thomas, if not him Magglio. It gaurentees the opposition will see one of them in the first inning.

You can't argue with having a switch hitter hit in front of Frank though,that plays hell with the opponents bullpen.

bc2k
02-18-2002, 11:52 PM
I felt I had a pretty good year," Durham, 30, said. "I had career highs in a lot of categories and defensively I cut down on the errors (10). The thing I have to work on is on-base percentage and learn how to bunt again."


If Durham can become a successful bunter again, then I like him in the two spot. Originally I liked Jose at the 2 spot, but I changed my opinion after hearing the talk of how Jose will break up the right-handed hitters.

Lofton is going to start off many games getting on base. If durham can bunt him over, I like our chances of scoring that inning. Thomas, Maggs, Konerko, etc. I have a feeling the first inning of our games will see plenty of white sox scoring. That lead will hopefully then take the pressure of pitching perfect off our starter. This lead will allow the young pitchers to throw their respective games.

Also, Valentin in the 6 hole is kind of like another clean-up spot. Valentin is pretty clutch with men on, so I am confident he and Lee can drive in Maggs and Konerko.

Liefer and his 1 homer every fourteen at bats can pinch hit late in the game for clayton. Valentin moves to short, liefer to third. This line-up is stacked, and it will be fun to watch.

RichH55
02-18-2002, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I felt I had a pretty good year," Durham, 30, said. "I had career highs in a lot of categories and defensively I cut down on the errors (10). The thing I have to work on is on-base percentage and learn how to bunt again."


If Durham can become a successful bunter again, then I like him in the two spot. Originally I liked Jose at the 2 spot, but I changed my opinion after hearing the talk of how Jose will break up the right-handed hitters.

Lofton is going to start off many games getting on base. If durham can bunt him over, I like our chances of scoring that inning. Thomas, Maggs, Konerko, etc. I have a feeling the first inning of our games will see plenty of white sox scoring. That lead will hopefully then take the pressure of pitching perfect off our starter. This lead will allow the young pitchers to throw their respective games.

Also, Valentin in the 6 hole is kind of like another clean-up spot. Valentin is pretty clutch with men on, so I am confident he and Lee can drive in Maggs and Konerko.

Liefer and his 1 homer every fourteen at bats can pinch hit late in the game for clayton. Valentin moves to short, liefer to third. This line-up is stacked, and it will be fun to watch.


I could honestly care less about Ray's bunting comments, though that OBP talk warms the heart......bunting? This is not a small ball lineup in the least until you get to Catcher and Royce..

Daver
02-19-2002, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by RichH55



I could honestly care less about Ray's bunting comments, though that OBP talk warms the heart......bunting? This is not a small ball lineup in the least until you get to Catcher and Royce..

Rich,I just get tired of pointing it out,but someday he will get the message.

http://users.pandora.be/p0p0/youare.swf

bc2k
02-19-2002, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by RichH55



I could honestly care less about Ray's bunting comments, though that OBP talk warms the heart......bunting? This is not a small ball lineup in the least until you get to Catcher and Royce..

Rich, every team plays small ball regardless of how powerful its line-up is. I don't envision the power hitters laying one down. But the more opportunities of men in scoring position the big-boppers have, the more chances they will drive that runner home.

What is baseball without bunting? Rich, how would you plan to win a baseball game in this scenerio: Top of the ninth, White sox batting. Lofton draws a lead-off walk. Durham steps to the plate with nobody out. I'm just curious to see what you would do as a manager.

Daver, I would like to reply to your post, but once again although you have a difference in opinion, you fail to discuss/debate it, instead post linkes saying I am an idiot. Not exactly the intelligent baseball chatter I was looking for.

But what the hell does this idiot know anyway.

Daver
02-19-2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by bc2k



What is baseball without bunting? Rich, how would you plan to win a baseball game in this scenerio: Top of the ninth, White sox batting. Lofton draws a lead-off walk. Durham steps to the plate with nobody out. I'm just curious to see what you would do as a manager.



What is the score for your scenario?Is it tied or are the Sox down?You need to add some of this info into your posts.

bc2k
02-19-2002, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by daver


What is the score for your scenario?Is it tied or are the Sox down?You need to add some of this info into your posts.

My fault daver, I meant to add that. Sox down 2-1.

Daver
02-19-2002, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by bc2k


My fault daver, I meant to add that. Sox down 2-1.

If I am the manger I have Ray hit,knowing that I have Thomas coming up in the inning,Ray has proven that he can advance the runner,and you have one of the most feared bats in the MLB following him up.

bc2k
02-19-2002, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by daver


If I am the manger I have Ray hit,knowing that I have Thomas coming up in the inning,Ray has proven that he can advance the runner,and you have one of the most feared bats in the MLB following him up.

So you would rather have one of the most feared bats try to bat in a man from first base than second?

Now if I was the manager, I would rather take a guaranteed Lofton at second with one out rather than see ray strike out and leave Lofton at first with one out. Or even worse, see ray ground into a double play leaving the bases empty and two outs with that most feared bat at the place. Kind of takes the fear out of his bat. Lofton at second means Thomas only needs a single to score the tying run. He would need more than that to score Lofton from first and a lot more to score the tying run with no runners on base at all.

But hey, what the hell does this idiot know?

PaleHoseGeorge
02-19-2002, 03:32 AM
My biggest problem with slotting Ray in the #2 hole is that hat rack he carries around on his shoulders. Durham goes through stretches EVERY SEASON where he is the dumbest man in baseball. I don't know what he is thinking, and I bet nobody else does either.

I have no doubt Durham will be taking power swings with two out, the Sox down a run, and Frank coming to the plate.

:ray
"Don't you love those 3 week stretches when I can't see the ball, too?"

Still, Valentin must drop in the line up. He's the perfect lefty at #6 to break up the the righties in the middle of the order.

:manos
"Me at #6..."

:caballo
"...and me at #7..."

:hitless :MJ
"...helps fix the mess we make at #8 and #9!"

RedPinStripes
02-19-2002, 05:58 AM
Originally posted by daver


If I am the manger I have Ray hit,knowing that I have Thomas coming up in the inning,Ray has proven that he can advance the runner,and you have one of the most feared bats in the MLB following him up.

You're one of the only managers that would do that also daver. What if Ray pops out , or hits a grounder right to ss and has lofton forced out? The if thomas hits a ground ball, game over on a dp. ALWAYS get the runner in scoring position. I't never a badthing to have 1 out runer on second and Thomas at the plate with Maggs coming up. You have to make sure you tie the game.