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infohawk
08-01-2006, 11:56 AM
Remember all the angst and worry we felt last year as our division lead was slowly chipped away over the last two months of the season? There is a good chance that the Tiger fanbase will experience the same thing. I am already detecting some nervousness on their board after just two consecutive losses. The pressure is on them to hold the lead and there may be some nervous breakdowns in the motor city over the next couple of months if the Tigers start to slide a bit. Should be fun to watch, especially because we understand it all too well!

jenn2080
08-01-2006, 11:57 AM
Remember all the angst and worry we felt last year as our division lead was slowly chipped away over the last two months of the season? There is a good chance that the Tiger fanbase will experience the same thing. I am already detecting some nervousness on their board after just two consecutive losses. The pressure is on them to hold the lead and there may be some nervous breakdowns in the motor city over the next couple of months if the Tigers start to slide a bit. Should be fun to watch, especially because we understand it all too well!

Kenny Rogers hasnt won his last 4 starts. YIKES!

caulfield12
08-01-2006, 11:59 AM
Not to mention the fact he hasn't thrown a quality start in 6 of his last 7 outings, or am I being too negative about the Gambler?

MadetoOrta
08-01-2006, 12:02 PM
Last year's slide was pure h%&#. It made every win in the playoffs feel like gravy. The good news for Tigertown is they only have to slide 8.5 games, so the misery shouldn't be as prolonged.:tongue:

jenn2080
08-01-2006, 12:02 PM
Not to mention the fact he hasn't thrown a quality start in 6 of his last 7 outings, or am I being too negative about the Gambler?

no more then we are on our own pitchers.

MarySwiss
08-01-2006, 12:03 PM
Last year's slide was pure h%&#. It made every win in the playoffs feel like gravy. The good news for Tigertown is they only have to slide 8.5 games, so the misery shouldn't be as prolonged.:tongue:

Now that's just plain mean. And I love it! :D:

Mr.1Dog
08-01-2006, 12:05 PM
Kenny Rogers hasnt won his last 4 starts. YIKES!

I believe this was predicted by many here around the time of the Break. Rogers usually slumps during the second half of the season and we will be there to reap the benefits.:bandance:

jenn2080
08-01-2006, 12:07 PM
I believe this was predicted by many here around the time of the Break. Rogers usually slumps during the second half of the season and we will be there to reap the benefits.:bandance:

at the time of the break? it may have been in early June.

Madvora
08-01-2006, 12:07 PM
Last year's slide was pure h%&#. It made every win in the playoffs feel like gravy. The good news for Tigertown is they only have to slide 8.5 games, so the misery shouldn't be as prolonged.:tongue:
Make that 7.5 now. That'll make it a little easier on them.

MarySwiss
08-01-2006, 12:10 PM
Make that 7.5 now. That'll make it a little easier on them.

Too bad we couldn't pull off the win on Sunday. Then it would have been 6.5. Oh, well....

Thome25
08-01-2006, 12:10 PM
Personally, I'm not worried about what the Tigers are doing right now. Do I hope that they'll have a slide similar to the one we had last year? YES. Do I think they will? PROBABLY NOT.

With that said, The only thing we can do is win as many of our remaining games as possible. we also need to try and take as many games as we can against the Tigers head-to-head. The rest will take care of itself.

ilsox7
08-01-2006, 12:11 PM
at the time of the break? it may have been in early June.

Many of us said their pitching would fall off big time as the season went on. For the month of July, the Tigers had a team ERA of 4.53. If they keep that up, they will be fighting with either/both of the Sox and Twins for the Division coming down the stretch.

jenn2080
08-01-2006, 12:13 PM
Many of us said their pitching would fall off big time as the season went on. For the month of July, the Tigers had a team ERA of 4.53. If they keep that up, they will be fighting with either/both of the Sox and Twins for the Division coming down the stretch.


or Cleveland

soxfan13
08-01-2006, 12:13 PM
Not to mention the fact he hasn't thrown a quality start in 6 of his last 7 outings, or am I being too negative about the Gambler?

Yeah but the one was against us :(:

caulfield12
08-01-2006, 12:17 PM
Nice quote from The Wedding Singer, Mr. Lovitz

infohawk
08-01-2006, 12:30 PM
Bear with me now, but what if the Tigers gave it up enough for the Sox and Twins to catch them and be in a three-team race before it's all said and done? Going just a bit further, what if the Tigers ended up getting squeezed out for the division AND the wildcard?

I'm not proposing that this is probable, but it is certainly not entirely outside the realm of possibility. If I were a Tiger fan, I would be most concerned about signs that the pitching might be regressing somewhat and that the team would develop a "holding-on" mindset and as a result play tight because of the pressure. It happened to us last year. You start playing to not lose instead of playing to win. Call it the affliction of the front-runner. Remember, if we only had a 7.5 game lead entering August, the Indians would have caught and passed us last year.

Madvora
08-01-2006, 12:40 PM
Remember, if we only had a 7.5 game lead entering August, the Indians would have caught and passed us last year.
The Indians went on a ridiculous run not likely to be replicated by many teams again.
The Sox still have a chance at this division, but I think it's going to be Detroit's fault if they don't win it, meaning that Detroit would have to let us back in. I don't think any team would have the ability to overtake another team that continues to play .667 ball.

CaptainBallz
08-01-2006, 12:42 PM
Bear with me now, but what if the Tigers gave it up enough for the Sox and Twins to catch them and be in a three-team race before it's all said and done? Going just a bit further, what if the Tigers ended up getting squeezed out for the division AND the wildcard?

I'm not proposing that this is probable, but it is certainly not entirely outside the realm of possibility. If I were a Tiger fan, I would be most concerned about signs that the pitching might be regressing somewhat and that the team would develop a "holding-on" mindset and as a result play tight because of the pressure. It happened to us last year. You start playing to not lose instead of playing to win. Call it the affliction of the front-runner. Remember, if we only had a 7.5 game lead entering August, the Indians would have caught and passed us last year.

Seriously, that's why I don't understand the doom and gloom in July. How long did it take for the Sox to fall from 1.5 to 8.5 back? Not very long. With two months of baseball left, why does that seem like too big of a deficit to make up when the Sox were obviously playing well beneath their abilities and the chances of Detroit hitting a "Sox-like" slump are incredibly possible?

This is far from over...

ilsox7
08-01-2006, 12:46 PM
The Indians went on a ridiculous run not likely to be replicated by many teams again.
The Sox still have a chance at this division, but I think it's going to be Detroit's fault if they don't win it, meaning that Detroit would have to let us back in. I don't think any team would have the ability to overtake another team that continues to play .667 ball.
If the Sox play like we know/think they can, they will win this division. Detroit hasn't had one slump this year. If they go through an entire year without a slump, they'd be among one of the top 4-5 teams in baseball history. More power to them if they can do that. But I'd put money on them not being able to do so.

To me, the question is (and always has been) can the Sox put things together in August/September/October? I've said since day one that this struck me as a team that would find a couple of extra gears during the Pennant Race. And it's time...

Baby Fisk
08-01-2006, 12:53 PM
My buddy the Tigers fan is loving this season, but keeps waiting for the bubble to burst. The Tigers seem to have a championship season once every 20 years, and this could be the one.

Tigers world championships:
1935 (defeated Chicago)
1945 (defeated Chicago)
1968 (defeated St. Louis)
1984 (defeated San Diego)

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 01:31 PM
The Indians went on a ridiculous run not likely to be replicated by many teams again.
The Sox still have a chance at this division, but I think it's going to be Detroit's fault if they don't win it, meaning that Detroit would have to let us back in. I don't think any team would have the ability to overtake another team that continues to play .667 ball.I disagree with your first statement. It's actually not uncommon to have teams put together hot streaks and win a lot of games over a relatively short 50-game stretch. The Indians played 38-16 in August and September last year. That's only a .704 clip. Up until their recent dive, the Sox were winning about 2/3 of their games, and weren't really playing their best baseball at that. The key is for the starting pitching to pull out of its funk. If that happens, I don't think 44-14 is that big of a stretch.

soxfan13
08-01-2006, 01:39 PM
The Indians went on a ridiculous run not likely to be replicated by many teams again.
The Sox still have a chance at this division, but I think it's going to be Detroit's fault if they don't win it, meaning that Detroit would have to let us back in. I don't think any team would have the ability to overtake another team that continues to play .667 ball.

Didnt Minn already go on a run similar if not better then Cle. run of last year?

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2006, 01:57 PM
. The key is for the starting pitching to pull out of its funk. If that happens, I don't think 44-14 is that big of a stretch.

That'd be a helluva drive. (This (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/streaks.cgi?games=58&year=ALL&SHOW=TOT&includes=end_year&start_game_val=10&end_game_val=135&teams=ALL&orderby=wins&submit=Find+Streaks) shows only 7 teams closing that well or better--and only one of them winning the World Series.:o:)

caulfield12
08-01-2006, 02:00 PM
Indians were 40-13 I think in their stretch....

Minnesota, 34-8, which is a higher winning percentage but fewer games.

Make it 35-10 now.

Hitmen77
08-01-2006, 02:10 PM
Seriously, that's why I don't understand the doom and gloom in July. How long did it take for the Sox to fall from 1.5 to 8.5 back? Not very long. With two months of baseball left, why does that seem like too big of a deficit to make up when the Sox were obviously playing well beneath their abilities and the chances of Detroit hitting a "Sox-like" slump are incredibly possible?

This is far from over...

It isn't the number of games back so much as how bad our pitching has looked that has me worried. I don't care about Kenny Roger's last 6 starts, I care about Buehrle's last 6 starts.

In the end, our fate will be determined by OUR pitching, not Detroit's. Buehrle needs to return to form and Vazquez has to at least return to the level of mediocrity he had last season. If these guys can get back on track, I can see us making up ground quickly. But, that won't happen if our guys keep sputtering. T he key is that our pitchers have to get back on track. It all starts with Buehrle's start tonight. Come on, MB - let's leave all your bad outings in July!!!

batmanZoSo
08-01-2006, 02:15 PM
Wow, the aught 6 "L" Series featured the upstart Sox on a 41-15 run up against the Cubs on a blistering 50-7 tear. :o:

The A's made a habit of getting blazing red hot in the second half and then going down like a French balloon in the first round. Billy Ball!

So runs like the Tribe had happen all the time. Theirs isn't even near being one of the most impressive in baseball history. And hey, if Minnesota can go 34-8 with two starters and a weak lineup, we can go 34-8 with 5 starters and a great lineup.

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2006, 02:46 PM
And hey, if Minnesota can go 34-8 with two starters and a weak lineup, we can go 34-8 with 5 starters and a great lineup.

Something no Sox team has ever done . . .

But what the hey, no Sox team has ever had consecutive postseason appearances . . . might as well get both of those done this year!:D:

TDog
08-01-2006, 02:58 PM
... Remember, if we only had a 7.5 game lead entering August, the Indians would have caught and passed us last year.

The 1977 White Sox -- the beloved Southside Hitmen -- had a 5.5 game lead at the end of July. It was trimmed from 6.5 on July 30, I believe. They finished 13 back, and people don't remember the team as chokers. A 5 game lead going into September can be frittered away without the a team choking.

This stuff isn't just isolated to the 1969 Cubs. It happens a lot.

I don't make predictions, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox and Twins battling for the division and a wild wild card race leaving a couple of very good AL teams (out of Boston, New York, Chicago, Detroit and Minnesota) out of the postseason.

Madvora
08-01-2006, 03:00 PM
Indians were 40-13 I think in their stretch....

Minnesota, 34-8, which is a higher winning percentage but fewer games.

Make it 35-10 now.
Very impressive indeed. My point wasn't that the Indians stretch was the best ever, it was that the Sox would have to replicate a ridiculous winning streak like that (or even better) to be able to overrun the Tigers if they keep playing as they are.
The Tigers have been pedal to the metal all season and if that keeps up, there not going to be caught... and that's all the credit to them, no matter how good our team is or how well we finish.
What we are hoping for is for the Tigers to drop off and have a slump at the same time we start one of our own winning streaks. It's very possible this could happen. This happens to all teams, but the Sox better be prepared for this because that's when they're going to have to make their move.

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2006, 04:09 PM
The 1977 White Sox -- the beloved Southside Hitmen -- had a 5.5 game lead at the end of July. It was trimmed from 6.5 on July 30, I believe. They finished 13 back, and people don't remember the team as chokers. A 5 game lead going into September can be frittered away without the a team choking.

This stuff isn't just isolated to the 1969 Cubs. It happens a lot.

I don't make predictions, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox and Twins battling for the division and a wild wild card race leaving a couple of very good AL teams (out of Boston, New York, Chicago, Detroit and Minnesota) out of the postseason.

I just looked this up, and August killed that team. After a 22-6 (!) July, including three straight wins over KC to finish the month, the Sox went 11-18 in August. KC, who had gone 18-8 in July, went 20-11 in August. An 8-game swing in one month . . .:o:

Fun fact about the '69 Cubs--even if that team had managed to carry its .613 pre-8/1 winning percentage through the rest of the season, it still wouldn't have won the division outright. (.613 is good for just over 99, while the Mets won 100, or .617.) Why that season is considered a Cub collapse rather than a great Mets' drive baffles me.

Oblong
08-01-2006, 04:28 PM
I would only consider a 7 1/2 game lead in August a choke job if the team went on a tail spin, losing 8 of 10 or something like that. But if we see a stretch where Detroit goes 7-3 and Chicago or MN goes 8-2 or 9-1 in the next block of 55+ games, then I consider that just the better team prevailing over a 162 game season that will have peaks and valleys. (sorry for the chiches)

I've been waiting for the Tigers to slip all season long. I believe i posted something here prior to the ASG that I expected Chicago to be in first by the break. As a life long Tiger fan I'm just not used to this since it's been almost 20 years since a legitimate pennant race.

TDog
08-01-2006, 04:49 PM
I just looked this up, and August killed that team. After a 22-6 (!) July, including three straight wins over KC to finish the month, the Sox went 11-18 in August. KC, who had gone 18-8 in July, went 20-11 in August. An 8-game swing in one month . . .:o:

Fun fact about the '69 Cubs--even if that team had managed to carry its .613 pre-8/1 winning percentage through the rest of the season, it still wouldn't have won the division outright. (.613 is good for just over 99, while the Mets won 100, or .617.) Why that season is considered a Cub collapse rather than a great Mets' drive baffles me.

First on the Cubs: The Mets finished the season in Wrigley Field. If memory serves, the Cubs won the last game of the season to pull to within 8 games. If the Cubs had not lost so many games (and many of them were to the Mets, which looked to be the easy part of their schedule in April and May), the final series would have been huge. Look at the number of games played by the Cubs regulars and you ask why the team didn't have anything left in September. Ask Randy Hundley what it was like to catch both ends of a July 13 doubleheader in Wrigley Field.

The 1977 White Sox lost it in a hurry in August. The month opened with four games in Texas in blistering heat, all long, grinding, close losses. I think at least a couple went into extra innings. (The heat in NYC actually contributed to a major outage and my lights went out in Bloomington, Ind., at about the same time. I missed the end of one of those Texas games in my darkened summer dorm room.) That made the race with four teams bunched, and eventually the experienced Royals just pulled out in front of the Sox, Texas and Minnesota. That was a hot summer, and the weather drained a team that battered other teams into submission for four months.

The Tigers have the big lead, and that helps, just as having a big lead helped the Sox last year. The Twins have the advantage of playing air conditioned home games in a facility where other teams are at a distinct disadvantage. I'm sure the place is triggering ugly memories for Carlos Lee this week. Reading the game summaries, it looks like Lee lost at least two fly balls in left Monday night. (Like I wouldn't have seen that coming.)

Obviously, if the Tigers keep winning, there won't be a divisional race. But winning might not be so easy.

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2006, 05:03 PM
First on the Cubs: The Mets finished the season in Wrigley Field. If memory serves, the Cubs won the last game of the season to pull to within 8 games. If the Cubs had not lost so many games (and many of them were to the Mets, which looked to be the easy part of their schedule in April and May), the final series would have been huge. Look at the number of games played by the Cubs regulars and you ask why the team didn't have anything left in September. Ask Randy Hundley what it was like to catch both ends of a July 13 doubleheader in Wrigley Field.


There were only four games between the Mets and Cubs in all of August and September. Yeah, the Mets did win three of them--splitting the last two games in Wrigley, as you said, and sweeping the Cubs 9/8 and 9/9 at Shea--but I wouldn't emphasize that too much. Without those four games, the Mets still went 42-17 after 7/31. I'm not sure that had anything to do with how Randy Hundley felt about playing a doubleheader on July 13 . . .

EDIT: This can be pinpointed even better. After games of 13 Aug 69, the Mets were 62-51--10 games behind the 74-43 Cubs. They were 38-11 the rest of the way--one of the best records over the last 49 games (see http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/streaks.cgi?games=49&year=ALL&SHOW=TOT&includes=end_year&start_game_val=10&end_game_val=135&teams=ALL&orderby=wins&submit=Find+Streaks). (And, yes, 49 is an otherwise very arbitrary number.) Again, only three of those last 38 wins came against the Cubs. If something similar ever happened to the Sox, I hope I'd salute the better team, and not wallow, as perhaps some Cub fans have, for nearly forty years in the misery of a choke that really wasn't.

Addressing something Oblong said earlier: if the Sox win the division, it'd probably be because they played .667 or so the rest of the way while the Tigers struggled to play .500. And if that were to happen, I don't think it'd be a "choke" by the Tigers. It'd just be the better team--proven by the final record, not whatever my opinion is in August--finally getting it together. And if it doesn't happen that way, well, then, I guess your Tigers were the better team this year (or at least for the first 162 games:tongue:)

nysox35
08-01-2006, 05:06 PM
http://www.walkoffbalk.com/blog/index.php?id=121

This is a hilarious article from a Tiger fan about why they should be worried about a "collapse", or more accurately, us passing them in the standings.
This part really cracked me up:

"Times like these make me actually sort of envy White Sox fans. After listening to countless hours of Hawk Harrelson (http://www.heavethehawk.com/) endlessly pontificating as to the many ways in which the current White Sox team is the greatest in world history, there’s a general feeling that it is only a matter of time before their boys come through and rise to the top. Instead of realizing that Scott Podsednik is not, in essence, a good ballplayer, and that Pablo Ozuna is not a .400 hitter, they sit back and faithfully wait for what they got last year, the key home run from a Geoff Blum or a Ross Gload."

Tiger23
08-01-2006, 05:09 PM
The losses these past two days hurt bad because of the type of losses they were. But I don't think the Tigers are ready to concede the division and stop playing. I've been looking forward to a good race all season. At this poinst I'd rather not have to see one (because the Tigers stay in first of course) but it looks like I will.

nysox35
08-01-2006, 05:12 PM
The losses these past two days hurt bad because of the type of losses they were. But I don't think the Tigers are ready to concede the division and stop playing. I've been looking forward to a good race all season. At this poinst I'd rather not have to see one (because the Tigers stay in first of course) but it looks like I will.

It's just part of baseball. None of us expected a "good race" last year up 15. Who knows what will happen over 162?

While I think we might catch you, I don't think you'll stop playing...

TDog
08-01-2006, 05:29 PM
There were only four games between the Mets and Cubs in all of August and September. Yeah, the Mets did win three of them--splitting the last two games in Wrigley, as you said, and sweeping the Cubs 9/8 and 9/9 at Shea--but I wouldn't emphasize that too much. Without those four games, the Mets still went 42-17 after 7/31. I'm not sure that had anything to do with how Randy Hundley felt about playing a doubleheader on July 13 . . .

Memoirs of 1969 Cubs players fixate on those two games at Shea. It seemed like more than those two games.

The reason the 1969 Cubs are seen as collapsing is that they fell apart. They didn't just lose the lead to a surging team, as the 1978 Red Sox did, fighting to force a one-game playoff. The Cubs disappeared after looking invincible.

Had they continued to win at their earlier pace, they could have been even with with Mets going those last two games of the season.

Edit: My point on Randy Hundley was that Cubs players had nothing left in September because Leo Durochur played the same lineup every day. Gil Hodges worked platoons effectively.

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2006, 05:36 PM
Had they continued to win at their earlier pace, they could have been even with with Mets going those last two games of the season.


Could be. At the very least it would have been closer. But it's all moot without that Mets' surge (which means Hodges had that team firing on all cylinders at the right time, which backs up your point about his effective platooning . . . ).

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Very impressive indeed. My point wasn't that the Indians stretch was the best ever, it was that the Sox would have to replicate a ridiculous winning streak like that (or even better) to be able to overrun the Tigers if they keep playing as they are.
The Tigers have been pedal to the metal all season and if that keeps up, there not going to be caught... and that's all the credit to them, no matter how good our team is or how well we finish.
What we are hoping for is for the Tigers to drop off and have a slump at the same time we start one of our own winning streaks. It's very possible this could happen. This happens to all teams, but the Sox better be prepared for this because that's when they're going to have to make their move.The Tigers have won 2/3 of their games so far this year. That works out to 108 wins if they keep that up. If they do, you tip your hat to them, because they will have earned it. But I also think the Sox have a good chance at 100+ wins, which puts them in a pretty good position if the Tigers falter even a little bit. And with 10 H2H games remaining, the Sox can contribute to that faltering. But the Sox cannot afford another slump.

bluestar
08-01-2006, 07:28 PM
Verlander is already struggling in the first inning tonight. He just gave up three straight singles and a sac fly. Tampa Bay leads 2 - 0. Of course, the starter for Tampa Bay is J.P. Howell, a AAA pitcher that came over from KC in the Gathright trade, so it isn't likely that Detroit won't score some runs.

infohawk
08-01-2006, 07:37 PM
Edit: My point on Randy Hundley was that Cubs players had nothing left in September because Leo Durochur played the same lineup every day.
:jerry
"I would have carried them over the finish line."

Scottiehaswheels
08-01-2006, 07:40 PM
Edit: My point on Randy Hundley was that Cubs players had nothing left in September because Leo Durochur played the same lineup every day. Gil Hodges worked platoons effectively.

Which brings me to my point about the Tigers in another thread... Leyland is playing his guys day in/day out.... Ozzie is being smart with only a few guys having played over 90 some odd games

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 07:41 PM
Verlander is already struggling in the first inning tonight. He just gave up three straight singles and a sac fly. Tampa Bay leads 2 - 0. Of course, the starter for Tampa Bay is J.P. Howell, a AAA pitcher that came over from KC in the Gathright trade, so it isn't likely that Detroit won't score some runs.No sooner said...

Chips
08-01-2006, 07:49 PM
I think Bondermann's balk was the beginning of the end for Detroit.

The Immigrant
08-01-2006, 07:50 PM
J.P. Howell - he of the 21.60 ERA. :o:

We'll see how the Tigers pitching holds up through the stretch run. Methinks we're seeing some serious cracks already.

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 07:52 PM
J.P. Howell - he of the 21.60 ERA. :o:

We'll see how the Tigers pitching holds up through the stretch run. Methinks we're seeing some serious cracks already.http://tampabay.devilrays.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_434442.jpg = http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:pss6BBA2rx4g5M:www.jaypro.com/images/products/small/bt-6.jpg

Tiger23
08-01-2006, 09:36 PM
Which brings me to my point about the Tigers in another thread... Leyland is playing his guys day in/day out.... Ozzie is being smart with only a few guys having played over 90 some odd games

Are you positive about that? The only guy who I see signs of abuse on is Carlos Guillen. Other than that, it seems he does a good job resting guys, and even rests guys like Granderson too much IMO.

I'm too lazy to look up any numbers, but I do know that he makes a lot of moves defensively in the late innings which could throw off the number of games it looks like guys have played.

The main question is, if Leyland is indeed playing his guys too much, would you rather him do this to put his team in the position they are in, or would you rather have him rest guys to put his team in the White Sox position. I have luked in a few WS game threads, and that seems to be a major complaint about Guillen. So which way is right?

Scottiehaswheels
08-01-2006, 09:58 PM
Are you positive about that? The only guy who I see signs of abuse on is Carlos Guillen. Other than that, it seems he does a good job resting guys, and even rests guys like Granderson too much IMO.

I'm too lazy to look up any numbers, but I do know that he makes a lot of moves defensively in the late innings which could throw off the number of games it looks like guys have played.

You guys have played 105 games now... Here is the breakdown by appearance/playing in the games for your starters vs. ours....

CF Granderson 104
3B Inge 102
1B Shelton 102 (not anymore)
SS Guillen 101
RF Ordonez 99
LF Monroe 90
2B Polanco 90
C Rodriguez 84

our starters

3B Crede 99
1B Konerko 99
LF Pods 96
RF Dye 93
C A.J.P. 92
SS Uribe 90
2B Iguchi 85
CF Anderson 83

The main question is, if Leyland is indeed playing his guys too much, would you rather him do this to put his team in the position they are in, or would you rather have him rest guys to put his team in the White Sox position. I have luked in a few WS game threads, and that seems to be a major complaint about Guillen. So which way is right?

I prefer Ozzie's take on how to rotate players.... Especially if you'll remember we're finally into the dog days of the season.. and with the new no amphetimines rule? You need your guys rested... Now I couldn't tell you the breakdown between how often your guys our ours have spent most of those games as DH or came in as a late substitute but I do know Konerko has spent at least 3-4 games as a DH this year.. Crede is the one I'm worried about holding up especially with his back issues but we'll see... The one benefit the Tigers have is most of their players are young and rebound quicker... So I guess we'll see which way is right... I'd just be worried if I was a Tiger fan because your bench depth doesn't inspire confidence if someone needs a 2-3 day break... If I were Leyland I would start doing something like Ozzie in order to rest up my players now for the stretch run while you still have a decent lead in the standings. But hey thats just me...

Oblong
08-01-2006, 10:21 PM
Carlos Guillen fatigued his way to the cycle tonight.

Tiger23
08-01-2006, 11:26 PM
I'd just be worried if I was a Tiger fan because your bench depth doesn't inspire confidence if someone needs a 2-3 day break...

Actually I like the Tigers bench a lot this year. Vance Wilson is the best backup catcher in the league. Craig Monroe, Marcus Thames, and Dmitri Young will rotate day in and day out. All three can hit. Alexis Gomez and Brent Clevlen are good defensive outfielders that have contributed at the plate in very limited opportunities. Omar Infante would be starting 2nd baseman for quite a few teams right now.

On top of that, they don't have one guy who is carrying the team offensively, so if one player goes down others would be able to pick up the slack.

caulfield12
08-01-2006, 11:46 PM
Didn't Gomez get sent down?

Cleyland or whatever his name is has done very well so far at the plate and looks to have a very strong CF arm, one of the best in the majors for that position.

Tiger23
08-02-2006, 12:09 AM
Didn't Gomez get sent down?

Cleyland or whatever his name is has done very well so far at the plate and looks to have a very strong CF arm, one of the best in the majors for that position.

Gomez got sent down b/c the pitching got beat up so bad for a few days that Leyland felt he needed one more guy in the pen. Then things got straightened out and they needed an outfielder. Gomez had not spent the required amount of time in the minors after being sent out, so they called Clevlen for what they thought would be a few days until Gomez was eligible. Of course he is trying to change their mind with 2 OFA, 2 HR, and a .600+ average. No one expects him to continue even close to this type of performance, but it has still been an impressive debut.

QCIASOXFAN
08-02-2006, 03:25 AM
Vance Wilson is the best backup catcher in the league.
:o:

peelwonder
08-02-2006, 09:40 AM
Carlos Guillen fatigued his way to the cycle tonight.


How many errors has he committed in the last week?

Tiger23
08-02-2006, 10:09 AM
:o:

Maybe I shouldn't blurt such things out without looking up some numbers, which would be too difficult for me to do with backup catchers (I'm an idiot). However, Vance is a GREAT backup catcher and is AT MINIMUM one of the best in the league. He played the whole Minnesota series because I-Rod had a hurt thumb, and the team didn't miss a beat.

Oblong
08-02-2006, 10:42 AM
How many errors has he committed in the last week?

I don't recall but his team is 4-2 during the previous 7 days.

The Immigrant
08-02-2006, 10:50 AM
Carlos Guillen fatigued his way to the cycle tonight.

I don't recall but his team is 4-2 during the previous 7 days.

That's some witty ****! And you wonder why some people call you a troll.

peelwonder
08-02-2006, 10:55 AM
I don't recall but his team is 4-2 during the previous 7 days.

You don't recall....who cares but I see the downfall coming...the vaunted pitching is already starting to fail.

peelwonder
08-02-2006, 10:59 AM
I don't recall but his team is 4-2 during the previous 7 days.

By the way...we'll see where you're team is at at the end of October...

I'm guessing not in the World Series...

peelwonder
08-02-2006, 11:01 AM
Actually come to think of it...who would be the #1 starter in the playoff's?

Free swinging teams typically don't do well in the postseason. Ask the 2000 White Sox.

Deuce
08-02-2006, 11:07 AM
The Tigers are learning what the Sox learned last year: It is much more dificult to maintain a divisional lead in August and September than it is to accumilate a lead from April to July. The pressure to hold the lead down the stretch is usually the very thing that causes you to lose the lead. Luckily for the Sox last year, they had a very large cushion and were able to kick it into gear in the last couple of weeks.

Time will tell if the Tigers can beat out that stretch, or if the Sox can capitalize on it if they do not.

Either way, it is going to be one hell of a run.

Deuce

RealMenWearBlack
08-02-2006, 12:16 PM
Free swinging teams typically don't do well in the postseason. Ask the 2000 White Sox.

But the 2000 Sox had much weaker pitching than this Tigers team does.

Oblong
08-02-2006, 12:16 PM
Actually come to think of it...who would be the #1 starter in the playoff's?

Free swinging teams typically don't do well in the postseason. Ask the 2000 White Sox.

Bonderman.

Why is what I did being a troll? I was asked a question. I responded with an accurate answer (I don't recall) and a factual statement. Someone else started a thread on Guillen hitting for the cycle. What I said about his team's record would have held true for any guy. It wasn't to stick up for Guillen because he's a Tiger.

I don't come on here and root for the Tigers. I don't respond to things posted that I disagree with. I don't talk smack. I come here to learn more about the White Sox players and find out what their fans think of them. I've said repeatedly that I expect the Sox to win the divison. That's not to suck up it's just what I think will happen. Obviously I hope Detroit does but what I want and what I expect to happen are different things.

FloridaTigers
08-03-2006, 03:07 PM
While I disagree with Oblong here- I think we'll win the division, whether we cruise in or barely hang onto it. I think we'll take it. But I got something else to add to all this. Its going to take alot more then a collapse for the Sox to overcome the Tigers. This isn't June or July anymore. Every win is now a key win. So what if the Tigers lose two in a row? What will it matter if the White Sox don't win thise two games back? The Sox have to win 6 or 7 of 8 to take the lead in the division, if the Tigers don't collapse like many of you predict. The pressure is on Ozzie Guillen and the White Sox. They're the World Champs. They're losing this division to a team that won 71 games last year.

If I come off as a troll, I apologize. But its the truth. Its going to take more then a simple Tigers collapse for the Sox to take back the division.

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 03:38 PM
While I disagree with Oblong here- I think we'll win the division, whether we cruise in or barely hang onto it. I think we'll take it. But I got something else to add to all this. Its going to take alot more then a collapse for the Sox to overcome the Tigers. This isn't June or July anymore. Every win is now a key win. So what if the Tigers lose two in a row? What will it matter if the White Sox don't win thise two games back? The Sox have to win 6 or 7 of 8 to take the lead in the division, if the Tigers don't collapse like many of you predict. The pressure is on Ozzie Guillen and the White Sox. They're the World Champs. They're losing this division to a team that won 71 games last year.

If I come off as a troll, I apologize. But its the truth. Its going to take more then a simple Tigers collapse for the Sox to take back the division.

Apparently, you were not paying attention last year. The Sox led the Indians by 15 games on August 1. That lead was eventually cut down to 1.5 games. Now I'm not saying that the Sox will go on an Indians-like tear or that the Tigers will completely collapse, but I'd never be foolish enough to say it couldn't happen, when it damn well nearly DID happen--to us, last year. Then again, I'd also never be foolish enough to come on a Sox fan site--especially THIS one--and start shooting off my face about winning the division with two months left to play in the season.

TDog
08-03-2006, 04:34 PM
... Then again, I'd also never be foolish enough to come on a Sox fan site--especially THIS one--and start shooting off my face about winning the division with two months left to play in the season.

I know I don't care what Tigers fans think about the divisional race, and I'm better at handling this Sox season than most of the posters around here. I don't feel the same desperation to win after the success of last season. So maybe I'm in the minority about a lot of things, but I know there were a lot of Sox fans that handled winning with grace.

I also know that baseball is mostly about losing, unless you're the Yankees -- and these days even if you are the Yankees. Even the Mariners 2001 Seattle Mariners that got through the season losing only 46 games lost 4 of 5 to the Yankees in the ALCS. For that matter, the Tigers have lost 3 of 4 to the Yankees, 2 of 3 to the Red Sox and 2 of 3 to the A's.

The Tigers may coast to the division title, as some believe the Sox did last year, but if it might be more fulfilling sharing the joy of your team's season with people who appreciate it. This may not shape up to be the year of the AL Central after all.

And frankly, if the White Sox don't make the post season, it wouldn't bother me a bit to see the Yankees or Red Sox wipe the field with the Tigers.

Seeing the A's win, however, would bother me.

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 05:12 PM
I know I don't care what Tigers fans think about the divisional race, and I'm better at handling this Sox season than most of the posters around here. I don't feel the same desperation to win after the success of last season. So maybe I'm in the minority about a lot of things, but I know there were a lot of Sox fans that handled winning with grace.

I also know that baseball is mostly about losing, unless you're the Yankees -- and these days even if you are the Yankees. Even the Mariners 2001 Seattle Mariners that got through the season losing only 46 games lost 4 of 5 to the Yankees in the ALCS. For that matter, the Tigers have lost 3 of 4 to the Yankees, 2 of 3 to the Red Sox and 2 of 3 to the A's.

The Tigers may coast to the division title, as some believe the Sox did last year, but if it might be more fulfilling sharing the joy of your team's season with people who appreciate it. This may not shape up to be the year of the AL Central after all.

And frankly, if the White Sox don't make the post season, it wouldn't bother me a bit to see the Yankees or Red Sox wipe the field with the Tigers.

Seeing the A's win, however, would bother me.
TDog, ol' pal, you make a lot of good points. As for the postseason, anytime the Sox or D'Backs aren't in it, I immediately lose interest.

But you know what occurred to me just now? We're always getting these fans from other teams, like the Tigers, Twins, Indians, Red Sox. But I don't ever remember seeing a Yankees fan come on here and start talking smack. Weird, huh?

TDog
08-03-2006, 06:03 PM
TDog, ol' pal, you make a lot of good points. As for the postseason, anytime the Sox or D'Backs aren't in it, I immediately lose interest.

But you know what occurred to me just now? We're always getting these fans from other teams, like the Tigers, Twins, Indians, Red Sox. But I don't ever remember seeing a Yankees fan come on here and start talking smack. Weird, huh?

There is something about being a Yankees fan that I could never handle, having grown up a White Sox fan. Fans of any other team standing in line for postseason tickets (maybe not the Braves) would be excited, wanting to be there because this could be their year. How could I be happy if my team won? They have won so much (in the last century to be sure) that I could only be unhappy that they lost. Some Sox fans are starting to act that way based on one season, but that was a special season.

When I was waiting in line in 2000 before the windows opened, someone near me had a friend from New York hanging with him. He didn't talk smack. He didn't shake his head at the losers waiting in line for unfulfilled dreams (two afternoons of Frank Thomas popping out and a bunch of refunds, as it turned out). He was friendly and seemed happy for everyone. When he was pushed on the point, he simply said the Yankees will win, of course. He said it as if he was stating that the speed of light is equal to three times 10 to the eighth power meters per second.

Maybe fans of non-Yankees teams are so used to having people lay smack on them that they grab their chance to return the favor when it comes along. On the other hand, I know how much I hated having to put up with the crap from Cubs fans growing up and try to rise above it.

FloridaTigers
08-03-2006, 06:22 PM
Apparently, you were not paying attention last year. The Sox led the Indians by 15 games on August 1. That lead was eventually cut down to 1.5 games. Now I'm not saying that the Sox will go on an Indians-like tear or that the Tigers will completely collapse, but I'd never be foolish enough to say it couldn't happen, when it damn well nearly DID happen--to us, last year. Then again, I'd also never be foolish enough to come on a Sox fan site--especially THIS one--and start shooting off my face about winning the division with two months left to play in the season.

But that happened to the White Sox. This is the Detroit Tigers. No two seasons are alike to any teams. The Tigers might pull an epic collapse, but at the same time, the Sox might slump. Maybe the Twins will get hot again at this time too. Theres too many things to take in account. But all season, I've been reading this forum and seeing Sox fans go "They're gonna collapse, they're gonna blow it, we just gotta win". Its too late for that mentality. Now, the season isn't over. There is a lot of baseball to be played between the Sox and Tigers. But now that we've gotten off of this mental block against teams like the Soxes or Yanks, I like our chances now. I knew we were going to get our asses handed to us in that week where we faced the Sox, Yanks, and Sox. I knew it. I could feel it, basically. In some weird, Tiger fan way, but I think we can take a series from the Yanks or Red Sox. This season has surprised me and has been out of the ordinary. Why CAN'T we do it?

TDog
08-03-2006, 06:32 PM
... I like our chances now. I knew we were going to get our asses handed to us in that week where we faced the Sox, Yanks, and Sox. I knew it. I could feel it, basically. In some weird, Tiger fan way, but I think we can take a series from the Yanks or Red Sox. This season has surprised me and has been out of the ordinary. Why CAN'T we do it?

Maybe that is a question that could be better discussed with the Sons of Sam Horn.

soxinem1
08-03-2006, 06:41 PM
A couple of points:

I'll be honest, and I've said this many times. Your first is your best and sweetest. While I truly want the Sox to repeat, if they do not, it is not the end of the world. They have definitely shown more than the 1960, 1978, 1984, and 2001 teams have, and are in much better position. Repeating in baseball, more than any other sport, is the most difficult. Too many 'what ifs' have to come true.

The 2006 White Sox, while an excellent team on paper, are doing as well as can be expected, especially compared to most World Series Champions in the last 30 years. Sure, a couple repeaters are there, but the thing that makes this sprt so exciting is what I always called the 'pleasant suprise'. As much as I love the Sox, and still harbor ill-will towards the 2000 Tigers, as a baseball fan, to see a struggling franchise revive like they have is a good thing, it is good for the sport.

What fun is it to see the same teams win over and over and over again? Everyone talked about low World Series ratings last year, how about that Yank-Mets one a few years back? That didn't really set any records outside of Flushing and the Bronx, did it?

In my opinion, while you should never say never, but the White Sox need to be more focused on the Wild Card as an entry into the playoff than winning the Central. Unlike the 2003 Royals who had no pitching, the Tigers will not collapse. In all probability, they will win the Central, even if they do not play at the near .700 clip they are now. They have ended their drought against the White Sox, much like we did against the Twins and Indians last year. All the Tigers need to do is win 3 of 10 against us the rest of the year, and they will not lose much ground.

How they do in the playoffs is another matter, but we've seen inexpereinced playoff teams roll through their competition the past few years.

I would much rather see a midwestern team take the spotlight from the network favored west and east coast teams any day. And while I will always pull for the White Sox with passion and spirit, there comes a time when you have to accept a situation for what it is. If we beat the teams we need to beat the rest of the way, we will be playing in October. IF we do not, then we will be playing the 'what if' game ourselves until the Winter Meetings and ST 2007.

Since we are still in a pennant race, unlike most major league teams, I prefer to enjoy the rest of the season and hope for the best.

Ol' No. 2
08-03-2006, 06:42 PM
But that happened to the White Sox. This is the Detroit Tigers. No two seasons are alike to any teams. The Tigers might pull an epic collapse, but at the same time, the Sox might slump. Maybe the Twins will get hot again at this time too. Theres too many things to take in account. But all season, I've been reading this forum and seeing Sox fans go "They're gonna collapse, they're gonna blow it, we just gotta win". Its too late for that mentality. Now, the season isn't over. There is a lot of baseball to be played between the Sox and Tigers. But now that we've gotten off of this mental block against teams like the Soxes or Yanks, I like our chances now. I knew we were going to get our asses handed to us in that week where we faced the Sox, Yanks, and Sox. I knew it. I could feel it, basically. In some weird, Tiger fan way, but I think we can take a series from the Yanks or Red Sox. This season has surprised me and has been out of the ordinary. Why CAN'T we do it?People were predicting that Rogers would slide badly in the second half and Robertson would remember he's mediocre. Both of those are happening. The other prediction is that Verlander will run out of gas. Stay tuned on that one. If he does, can Bonderman carry the team? I doubt it.

You're talking as though there are only a few weeks in the season left and the Tigers are all but home free. There's still one-third of the season left...and it's the toughest one-third, at that.

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 06:47 PM
But that happened to the White Sox. This is the Detroit Tigers. No two seasons are alike to any teams. The Tigers might pull an epic collapse, but at the same time, the Sox might slump. Maybe the Twins will get hot again at this time too. Theres too many things to take in account. But all season, I've been reading this forum and seeing Sox fans go "They're gonna collapse, they're gonna blow it, we just gotta win". Its too late for that mentality. Now, the season isn't over. There is a lot of baseball to be played between the Sox and Tigers. But now that we've gotten off of this mental block against teams like the Soxes or Yanks, I like our chances now. I knew we were going to get our asses handed to us in that week where we faced the Sox, Yanks, and Sox. I knew it. I could feel it, basically. In some weird, Tiger fan way, but I think we can take a series from the Yanks or Red Sox. This season has surprised me and has been out of the ordinary. Why CAN'T we do it?

Maybe you can; maybe you can't. The bottom line is, what you think and what we think doesn't really mean jack ****. What happens does. And none of us knows what that will be.

But take a look at the bolded text. If you've been reading this forum all season, you should know by now that we are totally biased. And I'll guarantee you that nothing some Tigers fan says is going to convince us the Tigers are the better team. Hell, I'll go a step further; your guys could win the division by 27 games and sweep through the playoffs behind 11 consecutive no-hitters, and I will STILL say the White Sox are the better team. TOTALLY BIASED. Got it now?

Chisox003
08-03-2006, 06:53 PM
But all season, I've been reading this forum and seeing Sox fans go "They're gonna collapse, they're gonna blow it, we just gotta win".
Well what did you expect from WHITE SOX Interactive? :?:

Oblong
08-03-2006, 07:07 PM
Seeing some of the disappointment here this season has helped me realize that right now, for a Tiger fan, is as good as it is going to get in the forseeable future, outside of winning the WS. Nobody predicted this. No matter what happens the rest of the way.

What are the expectations next year for Detroit? Has to be a playoff race, at minimum. Now the bar is set high. Even if Detroit loses the race this year we can still hang our hat on a big surprising year filled with many memorable moments. This is all gravy.

I'm a die hard baseball fan. I played the game every stinking minute of my childhood. If I were born in Chicago I'd be a White Sox fanatic. If I were born in St. Louis I'd be a Card fan. I'm 32 with a wife, 2 kids, mortgage, full time job. The last time I sniffed a playoff chase was when I was a freshman in high school. That's a long time. Sox fans have 2000, 1993, and any other years I'm not remembering.

bluestar
08-03-2006, 07:09 PM
But that happened to the White Sox. This is the Detroit Tigers. No two seasons are alike to any teams. The Tigers might pull an epic collapse, but at the same time, the Sox might slump. Maybe the Twins will get hot again at this time too. Theres too many things to take in account. But all season, I've been reading this forum and seeing Sox fans go "They're gonna collapse, they're gonna blow it, we just gotta win". Its too late for that mentality. Now, the season isn't over. There is a lot of baseball to be played between the Sox and Tigers. But now that we've gotten off of this mental block against teams like the Soxes or Yanks, I like our chances now. I knew we were going to get our asses handed to us in that week where we faced the Sox, Yanks, and Sox. I knew it. I could feel it, basically. In some weird, Tiger fan way, but I think we can take a series from the Yanks or Red Sox. This season has surprised me and has been out of the ordinary. Why CAN'T we do it?

In addition to what others have said in response to this, I would like to add that you are only reading what you want to read. There have been plenty of people here that have said they believe the Tigers are for real, that if the Tigers keep winning like they have we will "tip our hats" to them, and so forth. A lot of people with a lot of different opinions post here. That's why you will find Sox fans that run the spectrum from those that think this year's team is doomed to failure to those that think the team will play .900 ball the rest of the way and win the World Series again.

Furthermore, the baseball season is 162 games long. There are no awards given for where you stand after 100 games. All that counts is who is in first place after number 162. You are in first place by a fairly comfortable margin now. Relish it. Enjoy it. If you are still there come the first week of October, celebrate. Oh, and pray you have a pitcher in the bullpen that can come in and retire the opposing batters in order with bases loaded and no one out. :wink:

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 07:25 PM
Seeing some of the disappointment here this season has helped me realize that right now, for a Tiger fan, is as good as it is going to get in the forseeable future, outside of winning the WS. Nobody predicted this. No matter what happens the rest of the way.

What are the expectations next year for Detroit? Has to be a playoff race, at minimum. Now the bar is set high. Even if Detroit loses the race this year we can still hang our hat on a big surprising year filled with many memorable moments. This is all gravy.
(Sigh!) Okay, one more time. I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself, the only disappointment I'm experiencing comes from my feeling that the most talented team in baseball has consistently underperformed. (Totally biased, remember?)

And--again speaking for myself--not only do I not care how happy Tigers fans may be right now, but I also could not care less what your expectations for next year--or for the next 200 years--are. Other Tigers fans probably would; I don't. But I must admit I am curious; why do you seem to care so much about what we think? You appear determined to hear us cry "uncle."

Don't hold your breath.

FloridaTigers
08-03-2006, 08:04 PM
People were predicting that Rogers would slide badly in the second half and Robertson would remember he's mediocre. Both of those are happening. The other prediction is that Verlander will run out of gas. Stay tuned on that one. If he does, can Bonderman carry the team? I doubt it.

You're talking as though there are only a few weeks in the season left and the Tigers are all but home free. There's still one-third of the season left...and it's the toughest one-third, at that.

Rogers is terrible at the moment. He's having his second half slide. He is by FAR our worst pitcher in the rotation. But Robertson? Robertson has been doing great lately. He's just having a career year. He's pitched well recently. Maybe we're talking about two different Robertsons.

Will Verlander run out of gas? I don't know. But lately, Leyland has played it safe and has only pitched him 6 innings in his last start, despite only throwing 98 pitches. I don't think he'll run out gas, the coaches are handling him fine. This isn't Dusty Baker here...

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 08:20 PM
Rogers is terrible at the moment. He's having his second half slide. He is by FAR our worst pitcher in the rotation. But Robertson? Robertson has been doing great lately. He's just having a career year. He's pitched well recently. Maybe we're talking about two different Robertsons.

Will Verlander run out of gas? I don't know. But lately, Leyland has played it safe and has only pitched him 6 innings in his last start, despite only throwing 98 pitches. I don't think he'll run out gas, the coaches are handling him fine. This isn't Dusty Baker here...

Sheesh! So far, Robertson has had a "career" 2/3 year. Can we wait until the year is over to declare the almighty "career year?"

I sympathize with you guys to some extent; I really do. Like Sox fans were last year, Tigers fans are starved for a championship. I understand that, but the way I look at it, your team is trying to take what's ours. And so far, you're just a team that's in first place. For now.

Ol' No. 2
08-03-2006, 08:22 PM
Rogers is terrible at the moment. He's having his second half slide. He is by FAR our worst pitcher in the rotation. But Robertson? Robertson has been doing great lately. He's just having a career year. He's pitched well recently. Maybe we're talking about two different Robertsons.

Will Verlander run out of gas? I don't know. But lately, Leyland has played it safe and has only pitched him 6 innings in his last start, despite only throwing 98 pitches. I don't think he'll run out gas, the coaches are handling him fine. This isn't Dusty Baker here...Great? Really?? We're talking about two different Robertsons, all right. You're talking about the April-June version and I'm talking about the current version. Here's his line for July:

2W-3L, 5.97 ERA, 1 quality start in 5 tries.

I hate to break it to you, but that's not going to get it done. And given that those are a lot closer to his career numbers than his April-June numbers, it's a lot more likely that what you see now is what you get.

Verlander has thrown 135.1 innings this year. That's more than Garland and more than Vazquez and only a little less than Contreras and Garcia. It's now August. Leyland pulled him after 5 innings in his last start, but it's still a lot of pitches. And he'd already given up 3 runs.

SoxandtheCityTee
08-03-2006, 08:26 PM
But I must admit I am curious; why do you seem to care so much about what we think? You appear determined to hear us cry "uncle."

Don't hold your breath.

No kidding. I think about last year and simply cannot imagine my registering on a Cleveland fan site in mid-season so that I could post all the time to tell them that I didn't think that they were going to catch the Sox (though I didn't), that I thought that 2005 was the Sox' year (though I did slowly come to that sweet realization) or that I'd been waiting many years, that the Sox had lost every postseason game I had ever attended (road included!) -- though all that was true, why would they care? Why would I care whether they cared? Why would they care whether I cared whether they cared . . .:nuts: oops, sorry, had to stop my head from spinning.

I like reading solid info from, or comments by, knowledgeable fans of other teams, but if Tiger fans think this is the place to bring their sunny optimism about the team the Sox are chasing, they're just being silly.

maurice
08-03-2006, 08:28 PM
Robertson has been doing great lately.

:?:
He's doing well this very instant (4 IP, 0 ER v. the DRays, so far), but he's been pretty crappy lately. Over his last 5 starts, he's given up 23 ER in only 34 IP.

whitesoxfan
08-03-2006, 08:33 PM
Tampa loaded the bases in the 4th with 2 outs, but couldn't score.

Monroe promptly hit a homer to put the Tiggers up 1-0. Cmon D-Rays...

maurice
08-03-2006, 08:35 PM
Verlander has thrown 135.1 innings this year.

Which is more innings than he's ever pitched in a single season in his life.
Last year, he pitched only 130 innings (total at 3 different levels).
In 2004, he pitched 105.2 for Old Dominion.
In 2003, he pitched 116.1.
In 2002, he pitched 113.2.

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 08:38 PM
This is the Detroit Tigers.
Just as an aside, when I read "This is the Detroit Tigers"--for some reason, I had a vision of Johnny Weismuller (sp?) as Tarzan, beating on his chest and shouting, THIS IS THE DETROIT TIGERS!

And it cracked me up!

soxinem1
08-03-2006, 09:10 PM
Sheesh! So far, Robertson has had a "career" 2/3 year. Can we wait until the year is over to declare the almighty "career year?"

I sympathize with you guys to some extent; I really do. Like Sox fans were last year, Tigers fans are starved for a championship. I understand that, but the way I look at it, your team is trying to take what's ours. And so far, you're just a team that's in first place. For now.

They cannot be that starved. 1984 was a heck of a lot more recent than 1917 was for us.

Oblong
08-03-2006, 09:19 PM
Which is more innings than he's ever pitched in a single season in his life.
Last year, he pitched only 130 innings (total at 3 different levels).
In 2004, he pitched 105.2 for Old Dominion.
In 2003, he pitched 116.1.
In 2002, he pitched 113.2.

Actually he threw 150 innings last year. 130 is what everybody says but Dombrowski was on the radio the other day and said it was 150. I've always seen it referenced at 130 but obviously he knows more about it than we do.
But the point remains. But obviously the point remains.

Oblong
08-03-2006, 09:24 PM
(Sigh!) Okay, one more time. I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself, the only disappointment I'm experiencing comes from my feeling that the most talented team in baseball has consistently underperformed. (Totally biased, remember?)

And--again speaking for myself--not only do I not care how happy Tigers fans may be right now, but I also could not care less what your expectations for next year--or for the next 200 years--are. Other Tigers fans probably would; I don't. But I must admit I am curious; why do you seem to care so much about what we think? You appear determined to hear us cry "uncle."

Don't hold your breath.

Why the hostility towards me? The "Sigh" and the "one more time". I do not recall any other times to warrant that.

I'm not trying to get anyone to cry uncle. Not sure what you mean by that. As I've said numerous times here I expect the Sox to win the division.

The Immigrant
08-03-2006, 09:25 PM
:?:
He's doing well this very instant (4 IP, 0 ER v. the DRays, so far), but he's been pretty crappy lately. Over his last 5 starts, he's given up 23 ER in only 34 IP.

This Devil Ray lineup has TWO hitters with an average above .250 - Cantu at .252 and Norton (yes, that Norton) at .262. This must be some sort of an MLB record, of the dubious sort. This team is a ****ing joke.

EDIT: and yet...and yet...BAM!

TDog
08-03-2006, 09:36 PM
...
And--again speaking for myself--not only do I not care how happy Tigers fans may be right now, but I also could not care less what your expectations for next year--or for the next 200 years--are. Other Tigers fans probably would; I don't. But I must admit I am curious; why do you seem to care so much about what we think? You appear determined to hear us cry "uncle."

Don't hold your breath.

Dng ding ding ...

Now, to FloridaTogers, who elicited your respons: I feel like screaming "I'm happy for you," Except I'm not. I haven't stopped hating the Tigers since the fight in 2000, just as I haven't stopped hating the A's for all the fights in the 1970s and the trash talking by their bandwagon fans in the decades since. If you're looking for people to convert into Tigers fans, you've come to the wrong place.

Don't you have any friends who agree with you who you can share the season with?

Chisox003
08-03-2006, 09:45 PM
GOT EM!

Thank you D-Rays.

Nothing like making it interesting :o:

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 09:49 PM
Why the hostility towards me? The "Sigh" and the "one more time". I do not recall any other times to warrant that.

I'm not trying to get anyone to cry uncle. Not sure what you mean by that. As I've said numerous times here I expect the Sox to win the division.
The "sigh" and "one more time" references are collective responses to the Tigers fans--yourself included--who for whatever reason are motivated to post on this site.

maurice
08-03-2006, 09:58 PM
Actually he threw 150 innings last year. 130 is what everybody says but Dombrowski was on the radio the other day and said it was 150.

I'm just relating his reported stats from his regular-season major- and minor-league games. I don't know where Dave got his numbers from. He must be counting spring innings or some other BS.

Nonetheless, the point remains the same. Even if the magic number is 150, he's only got 15 innings to go with 2+ months of baseball left to play.

- - -

The game is final. Tampa wins 2-1.

The Immigrant
08-03-2006, 10:04 PM
At long last, calm returns to WSI. Cudos to MarySwiss for manning the fort with such passion this evening. :thumbsup:

maurice
08-03-2006, 10:08 PM
In other news, Boston lost 7-6, and the Yanks won 8-1.

MarySwiss
08-03-2006, 10:11 PM
At long last, calm returns to WSI. Cudos to MarySwiss for manning the fort with such passion this evening. :thumbsup:

Awww! T'warnt nothin' :redface:

Hey! Here's a thought! Maybe we should just take games off more often. ?????

infohawk
08-03-2006, 10:20 PM
In other news, Boston lost 7-6, and the Yanks won 8-1. A few days ago I thought the Twins and Yankees would be our primary rivals for the WC. I now think that the Yankees will win the East and the Twins will have some rotation issues (Radke and possibly Liriano's elbow). The rest of the Twins rotation is no great shakes. That leaves the Red Sox, a good offensive team that has some inconsistent pitching and growing injury problems. Coincidentally, like the White Sox, the Red Sox didn't make a big move at the deadline. I'm hoping our Sox catch fire and their Sox stumble under the burden of injuries.

FYI -- It was just announced on Baseball Tonight that Javy Lopez passed through waivers and is expected to be traded to the Red Sox shortly to replace Varitek. Interesting move.

digdagdug23
08-03-2006, 10:22 PM
At long last, calm returns to WSI. Cudos to MarySwiss for manning the fort with such passion this evening. :thumbsup:

Pretty much every night. Mary puts the fan in fantastic. :wink:

CLR01
08-03-2006, 10:31 PM
Pretty much every night. Mary puts the fan in fantastic. :wink:

Eh...I'm getting sick of seeing people in attack mode for no reason. This place is open to all and if the kitty fans were trolling they would have been added to the long, distinguised list of former members already. Save the attacks for the morons like timberwolf.


Tigger trolls and Sox fans play nice. :smile:



I'll add come October when the Sox are in first will all look back on this and laugh. :wink:

kevin57
08-04-2006, 04:35 PM
Given the length of a baseball season, not to go into some kind of funk would be truly amazing. There are very few teams in the history of the game that accomplished that sort of feat. The real question for the Tigers will be will they mentally fall apart when they hit a rough patch. I would bet no since they have a seasoned manager.

Oblong
08-04-2006, 06:09 PM
Verlander's IP was mentioned earlier in this thread so I thought I'd point out that the Tigers are skipping him in the rotation this weekend. He'll start next weekend against Chicago.

MarySwiss
08-04-2006, 06:47 PM
Verlander's IP was mentioned earlier in this thread so I thought I'd point out that the Tigers are skipping him in the rotation this weekend. He'll start next weekend against Chicago.
Excuse me? They're skipping him in the rotation?
Oh, well. Probably just a whim.

Ol' No. 2
08-04-2006, 07:09 PM
Excuse me? They're skipping him in the rotation?
Oh, well. Probably just a whim.He's due to follow Kenny Rogers. They probably figure the bullpen will be spent and Verlander would have to go all nine.

kwolf68
08-04-2006, 10:04 PM
The Tigers may win 125 games the way its going...they erased a 5-0 lead tonight...Im getting sicker of these idiots.

Ol' No. 2
08-04-2006, 10:14 PM
The Tigers may win 125 games the way its going...they erased a 5-0 lead tonight...Im getting sicker of these idiots.You could see that one coming. The Indians bullpen isn't even AA quality.

whitesoxfan1986
08-04-2006, 10:20 PM
After tonight I am officially convinced that the Tigers will not go into any sort of funk this season. They fall behind 5-0 in the early innings, but they still find a way to win. Until the Tigers start to slide(i.e. 4-6 game losing streak) we better focus on the WC race. I really don't want to give up on the Sox winning the division, but the Tigers aren't showing any signs of slowing down. You can book them for 100 wins. If they play .500 ball the rest of the season they have 99 wins. I think they will play at least .500 ball. And that is very, very bad news for the Sox, as pertaining to winning the division.

Tiger Style
08-04-2006, 10:22 PM
After tonight I am officially convinced that the Tigers will not go into any sort of funk this season. They fall behind 5-0 in the early innings, but they still find a way to win. Until the Tigers start to slide(i.e. 4-6 game losing streak) we better focus on the WC race. I really don't want to give up on the Sox winning the division, but the Tigers aren't showing any signs of slowing down. You can book them for 100 wins. If they play .500 ball the rest of the season they have 99 wins. I think they will play at least .500 ball. And that is very, very bad news for the Sox, as pertaining to winning the division.

The game was pretty amazing actually... Monroe almost hit a HR but it had just hooked foul, and then on the next pitch he did hit one (a 2 run shot) which put them up 7-6 in the bottom of the 8th. I was worried that they were going to lose and go on a little skid, but this game probably just gave them more confidence if anything.

caulfield12
08-04-2006, 10:28 PM
It's interesting that both Liriano and Verlander have been scratched from starts this week.

We'll see how Justin does against us next Friday night, hopefully after we've beaten the Yankees at least 2 of 3.

And we get our old nemesis Kelvin Escobar on Monday. 24 games in a row...not to determine the pennant, but to determine if we're for real or not this season. Good start tonight against Halladay.

cheeses_h_rice
08-04-2006, 10:45 PM
The game was pretty amazing actually... Monroe almost hit a HR but it had just hooked foul, and then on the next pitch he did hit one (a 2 run shot) which put them up 7-6 in the bottom of the 8th. I was worried that they were going to lose and go on a little skid, but this game probably just gave them more confidence if anything.

Oh boy! Keep us posted!

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8573/whateverei3.jpg

voodoochile
08-04-2006, 11:04 PM
The game was pretty amazing actually... Monroe almost hit a HR but it had just hooked foul, and then on the next pitch he did hit one (a 2 run shot) which put them up 7-6 in the bottom of the 8th. I was worried that they were going to lose and go on a little skid, but this game probably just gave them more confidence if anything.
I'm getting tired of you. Your over the top unabashed enthusiasm for the Tigers may be a wonderful thing on whatever kitty forum you post on, but here it just doesn't fit in. I suggest that perhaps you try another forum to talk baseball on, because I fear I am going to end up banning you for trolling. Yes, it's a strict standard we hold here, but we aren't shy about letting people know how strict we are. heck, check out the site motto and you'll understand. We don't want a lot of happy cheery fans from other teams who are currently leading in the standings reminding how cool their life/team/fandom is at the moment, so please either tone it down or take it elsewhere.

Thanks...

1951Campbell
08-04-2006, 11:19 PM
C'mon guys, they're harmless. If someone gives you smack, give 'em smack back...

http://l3xy.com/wordpress/wp-content/Dtownghettocar.jpg

...like, even if they win it all, this is along the parade route, right?


:)


:wink:

FarWestChicago
08-04-2006, 11:35 PM
After tonight I am officially convinced that the Tigers will not go into any sort of funk this season. They fall behind 5-0 in the early innings, but they still find a way to win. Until the Tigers start to slide(i.e. 4-6 game losing streak) we better focus on the WC race. I really don't want to give up on the Sox winning the division, but the Tigers aren't showing any signs of slowing down. You can book them for 100 wins. If they play .500 ball the rest of the season they have 99 wins. I think they will play at least .500 ball. And that is very, very bad news for the Sox, as pertaining to winning the division.Actually, I doubt the Kitties will ever lose another game. You are an incredibly wise sage to advise all other teams in baseball, hell, any other pro sport to bow at the hallowed feet of the Kitties. Can the season right now and anoint them the greatest team in the history of all sports. In fact, stop all competition from this point forward. We have seen the Omega. There is no need for anything else.

TornLabrum
08-04-2006, 11:38 PM
Actually, I doubt the Kitties will ever lose another game. You are an incredibly wise sage to advise all other teams in baseball, hell, any other pro sport to bow at the hallowed feet of the Kitties. Can the season right now and anoint them the greatest team in the history of all sports. In fact, stop all competition from this point forward. We have seen the Omega. There is no need for anything else.

My God West! Don't you see? They came back against a team that doesn't have a ****ing bullpen. That makes them invincible! Invincible I say!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA

Ol' No. 2
08-05-2006, 01:03 AM
After tonight I am officially convinced that the Tigers will not go into any sort of funk this season. They fall behind 5-0 in the early innings, but they still find a way to win. Until the Tigers start to slide(i.e. 4-6 game losing streak) we better focus on the WC race. I really don't want to give up on the Sox winning the division, but the Tigers aren't showing any signs of slowing down. You can book them for 100 wins. If they play .500 ball the rest of the season they have 99 wins. I think they will play at least .500 ball. And that is very, very bad news for the Sox, as pertaining to winning the division.Umm...I'd say it was more the Indians just found a way to lose. And with that bullpen, they can do it without breaking a sweat.

Hands up anyone who DIDN'T look at the score in the 6th inning and think "The Indians bullpen will blow it."

But, hey, folks, that's the 2005 Executive of the Year who put that steaming pile of **** together.