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View Full Version : Looking head: Make or break for Buehrle????


southwstchi4life
08-01-2006, 12:08 AM
Although KC has a decent hitting, it is still KC. It should be a very winnable game for Marcus Buehrle. I have a good feeling (I hope im right). But could this be the game he starts pitching at his bests? I think so. One thing I heard was he is going to change his first pitch in the count. which has been a problem. SO anybody believ itll be a make or break?

soxfanreggie
08-01-2006, 12:11 AM
Who's Marcus Buehrle...is that Mark's great-great grandfather?

This, of course, is an important game for him. He's trying to get back on track. He's facing an opponent that he should be able to do well against, and he's pitching in a game we really need to win.

IlliniSox4Life
08-01-2006, 12:13 AM
Although KC has a decent hitting, it is still KC. It should be a very winnable game for Marcus Buehrle. I have a good feeling (I hope im right). But could this be the game he starts pitching at his bests? I think so. One thing I heard was he is going to change his first pitch in the count. which has been a problem. SO anybody believ itll be a make or break?

Make or Break? No.

However, he's going to make, so it doesn't really matter.

TornLabrum
08-01-2006, 12:33 AM
Who's Marcus Buehrle...is that Mark's great-great grandfather?

I think he was referring to the Roman emperor Marcus Buehelius.

LuvSox
08-01-2006, 12:38 AM
I think he was referring to the Roman emperor Marcus Buehelius.

Did he want to play for St. Louis too?

Soxfanspcu11
08-01-2006, 12:45 AM
If Burlz does not pitch well tommrow, they better trade him for Coco Crisp! Yes I know the deadline has come and gone, but they can find a way to trade them through the waiver wire!

A slight hijack here. *** was Epstein thinking offering Coco Crisp for Mark Buehrle???

That is the DUMBEST trade idea I have heard this season, and yes, I am including the rumors here on WSI.

Chips
08-01-2006, 12:47 AM
If Burlz does not pitch well tommrow, they better trade him for Coco Crisp! Yes I know the deadline has come and gone, but they can find a way to trade them through the waiver wire!

A slight hijack here. *** was Epstein thinking offering Coco Crisp for Mark Buehrle???

That is the DUMBEST trade idea I have heard this season, and yes, I am including the rumors here on WSI.

He was hoping KW was drunk and said yes.

Someone I know told me we should have done it. :rolleyes::kukoo::nuts::smokin:

Soxfanspcu11
08-01-2006, 12:50 AM
Someone I know told me we should have done it. :rolleyes::kukoo::nuts::smokin:

:bundy

Anyone who thinks we should have made that trade should have their baseball fancard taken away from them. That is BEYOND mind-boggling, on so many levels, I don't even know where to start!

StatHead21
08-01-2006, 12:54 AM
Although KC has a decent hitting


???? Since when?

Playah
08-01-2006, 12:59 AM
???? Since when?

Hawk said

DSpivack
08-01-2006, 01:00 AM
???? Since when?

Well, "Since June 20 they're leading the league" in a bunch of offensive categories, according to Hawk/DJ tonight.

spiffie
08-01-2006, 01:15 AM
???? Since when?
3rd in the AL in runs in July and 4th in OBP during the month. So they at the very least have been hitting well recently.

StatHead21
08-01-2006, 01:16 AM
3rd in the AL in runs in July and 4th in OBP during the month. So they at the very least have been hitting well recently.

WOW

Southsidechamps5
08-01-2006, 01:23 AM
To me its not make or break time, we all no Mark is capable of much better play than he has shown. Hes gona win this game by goin 8 solid innings, and hes gona be back to the old ACE he once was.

TDog
08-01-2006, 05:32 AM
3rd in the AL in runs in July and 4th in OBP during the month. So they at the very least have been hitting well recently.

And the Sox hit 49 home runs in July. Great month, wasn't it?

Grzegorz
08-01-2006, 05:42 AM
"Make or break"; I am not sure what the "break" is. Maybe a move to the bullpen?

No doubt about it, Buehrle needs a solid outing to help:
*His self confidence
*His teammates confidence in him
*The arms of the bullpen the bullpen

digdagdug23
08-01-2006, 08:42 AM
I think he was referring to the Roman emperor Marcus Buehelius.

Ahhh, I love "Gladiator'. One of my all-time favorite movies. :D:

stl_sox_fan
08-01-2006, 09:03 AM
Maybe a move to the bullpen?
Hey Mark already has one career save, he's proven he can do the bullpen thing.

I really hope Cerrano...err Sandy brings the voodoo, hoodoo or whatever to bring Mark out of his funk.

TornLabrum
08-01-2006, 09:21 AM
Ahhh, I love "Gladiator'. One of my all-time favorite movies. :D:

Never saw it.

soxfan13
08-01-2006, 10:27 AM
Never saw it.

:o: you gotta see it!!!

Foulke You
08-01-2006, 11:10 AM
Ozzie is hoping Sandy Alomar can straighten out Buehrle's head. Linky:

http://suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt31.html

LongLiveFisk
08-01-2006, 11:11 AM
If Burlz does not pitch well tommrow, they better trade him for Coco Crisp! Yes I know the deadline has come and gone, but they can find a way to trade them through the waiver wire!

A slight hijack here. *** was Epstein thinking offering Coco Crisp for Mark Buehrle???

That is the DUMBEST trade idea I have heard this season, and yes, I am including the rumors here on WSI.

If this is true, I would have loved to hear that conversation. I'm sure there was probably a chuckle or two coming from KW. :D:

MarySwiss
08-01-2006, 11:27 AM
He was hoping KW was drunk and said yes.

Someone I know told me we should have done it. :rolleyes::kukoo::nuts::smokin:

Did you put them on your ignore list? :D:

CaptainBallz
08-01-2006, 11:33 AM
Ozzie is hoping Sandy Alomar can straighten out Buehrle's head.

Has anyone said anything about Buerhle NOT working well with AJ lately? I know he has worked w/ Alomar before and is comfortable with him, but is there something with how him and AJ have been working together that has lead him to feel uncomfortable and not confident? That would be bad...very bad indeed.

hawkjt
08-01-2006, 02:04 PM
heard on the radio today that supposedly the sox have yet again picked up a tendancy that mark is tipping pitches with.

So heres hoping Sandy is already helping out mark with mechanics and that they click together right off the git-go.

kwolf68
08-01-2006, 02:21 PM
I honestly believe tonight has to happen for Mark.

Quite literally we will not make the post-season with him pitching the way he has been, just not possible. It is akin to him not even being there.

The one thing that keeps me positive is we all know Mark Buehrle and what he is about. While I have been disapointed in how he has pitched of late (as he has been), the bottom line is he is a WINNER, a CHAMPION, one of the games best left-handers, leaders, and stoppers.

We are right in the mix even though he has pitched about as poorly as he ever has. But great pitchers don't stink forever...Anyone here think this "kid" (to quote Oz) will finish the season 11-17 with a 5+ era? Come on...

No, while the rest of the AL is celebrating the fact they have made this move or that move and have such wonderful pitching staffs, they can go to bed at night knowing that the World Champions have pitched about as poorly as one could ever imagine. Two pitchers over 5, 2 more well over 4...Pitchers I might add who are CHAMPIONS, who outdueled any and all comers last year.

These folks lead us by 7.5, or .5, or stand a game back while their staffs have pitched beyond belief or they have two starters with sub 2 eras...they should be 15 games ahead of us, ahhh, but they aren't.

The most dangerous thing for the baseball world outside of Chicago is WHEN Mark Buehrle gets on track...when that happens, the rest of the American League can bend over and kiss their own azz.

I am not zooming with confidence that we can run down Detroit, but if Mark Buehrle gets going like we all KNOW he can, then all I have to say to Minnesota, Detroit, Boston, and New York....is GAME ON.

Lets go get em tonight big guy....

-yes, Mark Buehrle is easily my favorite pitcher on this team...I believe in that guy. He will get going.

southwstchi4life
08-01-2006, 02:24 PM
I honestly believe tonight has to happen for Mark.

Quite literally we will not make the post-season with him pitching the way he has been, just not possible. It is akin to him not even being there.

The one thing that keeps me positive is we all know Mark Buehrle and what he is about. While I have been disapointed in how he has pitched of late (as he has been), the bottom line is he is a WINNER, a CHAMPION, one of the games best left-handers, leaders, and stoppers.

We are right in the mix even though he has pitched about as poorly as he ever has. But great pitchers don't stink forever...Anyone here think this "kid" (to quote Oz) will finish the season 11-17 with a 5+ era? Come on...

No, while the rest of the AL is celebrating the fact they have made this move or that move and have such wonderful pitching staffs, they can go to bed at night knowing that the World Champions have pitched about as poorly as one could ever imagine. Two pitchers over 5, 2 more well over 4...Pitchers I might add who are CHAMPIONS, who outdueled any and all comers last year.

These folks lead us by 7.5, or .5, or stand a game back while their staffs have pitched beyond belief or they have two starters with sub 2 eras...they should be 15 games ahead of us, ahhh, but they aren't.

The most dangerous thing for the baseball world outside of Chicago is WHEN Mark Buehrle gets on track...when that happens, the rest of the American League can bend over and kiss their own azz.

I am not zooming with confidence that we can run down Detroit, but if Mark Buehrle gets going like we all KNOW he can, then all I have to say to Minnesota, Detroit, Boston, and New York....is GAME ON.

Lets go get em tonight big guy....

-yes, Mark Buehrle is easily my favorite pitcher on this team...I believe in that guy. He will get going.


I agree

Jurr
08-01-2006, 02:32 PM
Sooooo....if Buehrle has a bad night, it's a sign that he's got little to no chance to get his confidence or mechanics back?

Meh...

I love the "make or break" threads. They always have a way of being followed by twenty more "make or break" threads, because even if it breaks, there always seems to be another chance.

.........especially with two ****ing months of baseball to be played. :rolleyes:

kwolf68
08-01-2006, 02:37 PM
Sooooo....if Buehrle has a bad night, it's a sign that he's got little to no chance to get his confidence or mechanics back?

Meh...

I love the "make or break" threads. They always have a way of being followed by twenty more "make or break" threads, because even if it breaks, there always seems to be another chance.

.........especially with two ****ing months of baseball to be played. :rolleyes:


No, but each game that goes by where mark doesn't "find it" decreases our window of opportunity.

The quicker he gets going the faster we can get on that trail and run down a team or two. The longer he goes pitching poorly, the less consistent we are, the more we loes, the less likely it is we run down certain teams or even make the post-season.

We are in August now...The time has come.

No, if he falters tonight it isn't over and he could come back next start and start realing off some wins, but the longer we go losing games Mark starts the tougher it is. That's just a fact.

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 02:38 PM
Sooooo....if Buehrle has a bad night, it's a sign that he's got little to no chance to get his confidence or mechanics back?

Meh...

I love the "make or break" threads. They always have a way of being followed by twenty more "make or break" threads, because even if it breaks, there always seems to be another chance.

.........especially with two ****ing months of baseball to be played. :rolleyes:You mean like "must win" games?:cool:

Jurr
08-01-2006, 02:41 PM
No, but each game that goes by where mark doesn't "find it" decreases our window of opportunity.

The quicker he gets going the faster we can get on that trail and run down a team or two. The longer he goes pitching poorly, the less consistent we are, the more we loes, the less likely it is we run down certain teams or even make the post-season.

We are in August now...The time has come.

No, if he falters tonight it isn't over and he could come back next start and start realing off some wins, but the longer we go losing games Mark starts the tougher it is. That's just a fact.
Soooo..it's a "make or get 'em next time...sooner rather than later" game for Mark tonight?

spiffie
08-01-2006, 04:03 PM
It's not a make or break or any of those cliches about the game. However, I think the Sox need to see some positive movement tonight or else the questions they ask need to change. If he has yet another start where he gets absolutely shelled then you need to ask more probing questions about his physical and mental make-up at this time and about the mechanics. A couple bad starts can be chalked up to just guys "hitting em where they ain't." But when the trend reaches a certain length it needs to be more critically examined. Not that he can't turn around even if he has another bad start, but if he does lay an egg you have to wonder if there are possibly deeper problems than just bad days at the office.

Jurr
08-01-2006, 04:10 PM
It's not a make or break or any of those cliches about the game. However, I think the Sox need to see some positive movement tonight or else the questions they ask need to change. If he has yet another start where he gets absolutely shelled then you need to ask more probing questions about his physical and mental make-up at this time and about the mechanics. A couple bad starts can be chalked up to just guys "hitting em where they ain't." But when the trend reaches a certain length it needs to be more critically examined. Not that he can't turn around even if he has another bad start, but if he does lay an egg you have to wonder if there are possibly deeper problems than just bad days at the office.
I don't think it's ever been a "hitting 'em where they ain't" issue. Something's a little off with his stuff. He's been getting popped. You just can't tell exactly what's going to get him out of it. Hopefully it's soon. Burls had made adjustments before to correct his struggles, and we've gotta hope that he can dig his own way out of it. Maybe Alomar will help him get his comfort back. AJ's a fine catcher, but MB might just need a change of pace.

pauliemyhero14
08-01-2006, 04:12 PM
i dont think this is a make or break it game. I just think its just a big game to get Mark's confidence back. He has no confidence on the mound, and no better way to get it back to play a Triple-A team ( cause K.C. pretty much is ). The only worry i have about this game today is that K.C. has been doing great with thier new hitting coach.

DMarte708
08-01-2006, 07:20 PM
Buehrle's last five starts:

Vs Cubs: 5IP, 13H, 10 ER
Vs Red Sox: 6.1IP, 9H, 5 ER
Vs Yankees: 3IP, 8H, 7 ER
Vs Rangers: 7IP, 7H, 5 ER
Vs Twins: 5.1IP, 10H, 7 ER

These are embarrassing numbers from a pitcher set to earn 9 million next season. I wouldn't say tonight's start alone will "make or break," but if troubles continue, it may be wise to reconsider his option. Don't start the useless "dark cloud" crap either. The numbers speak for themselves. These stretch of games cover 4 starts against quality opponents.....and the Cubs. It becomes more than a slump if his troubles extend beyond tonight.

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 07:26 PM
I don't think it's ever been a "hitting 'em where they ain't" issue. Something's a little off with his stuff. He's been getting popped. You just can't tell exactly what's going to get him out of it. Hopefully it's soon. Burls had made adjustments before to correct his struggles, and we've gotta hope that he can dig his own way out of it. Maybe Alomar will help him get his comfort back. AJ's a fine catcher, but MB might just need a change of pace.I don't buy the confidence argument. Last time this happened he moved to the other side of the rubber and that got him back on track. It's just a subtle change to his mechanics that may be a result of the number of pitches he threw last year. The difference in mechanics between a knee-high fastball and one belt high is miniscule. A small compensation may be all that's needed, but you have to find it, first. Tonight would be a good time.

TornLabrum
08-01-2006, 07:36 PM
I don't buy the confidence argument. Last time this happened he moved to the other side of the rubber and that got him back on track. It's just a subtle change to his mechanics that may be a result of the number of pitches he threw last year. The difference in mechanics between a knee-high fastball and one belt high is miniscule. A small compensation may be all that's needed, but you have to find it, first. Tonight would be a good time.

Throwing the ball in on the batters instead of hanging the ball out over the plate might help just a wee bit.

Chips
08-01-2006, 07:38 PM
Did you put them on your ignore list? :D:

No, he's a miserable bastard who doesn't post here.

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 07:39 PM
Throwing the ball in on the batters instead of hanging the ball out over the plate might help just a wee bit.Wow. I'll have to remember that.:wink:

batmanZoSo
08-01-2006, 07:42 PM
No, he's a miserable bastard who doesn't post here.

I have a real-life ignore list. Many people are on it, including my boss and several family members. I highly recommend it.

Chips
08-01-2006, 07:42 PM
Buehrle's last five starts:

Vs Cubs: 5IP, 13H, 10 ER
Vs Red Sox: 6.1IP, 9H, 5 ER
Vs Yankees: 3IP, 8H, 7 ER
Vs Rangers: 7IP, 7H, 5 ER
Vs Twins: 5.1IP, 10H, 7 ER

These are embarrassing numbers from a pitcher set to earn 9 million next season. I wouldn't say tonight's start alone will "make or break," but if troubles continue, it may be wise to reconsider his option. Don't start the useless "dark cloud" crap either. The numbers speak for themselves. These stretch of games cover 4 starts against quality opponents.....and the Cubs. It becomes more than a slump if his troubles extend beyond tonight.

:rolleyes:

And over the course of his career, he is 94-62 with a 3.75 ERA.

Chips
08-01-2006, 07:43 PM
I have a real-life ignore list. Many people are on it, including my boss and several family members. I highly recommend it.

Don't you mean you have a list of people that you talk to?:D:

DMarte708
08-01-2006, 07:49 PM
:rolleyes:

And over the course of his career, he is 94-62 with a 3.75 ERA.
What do career numbers matter now? Frank Thomas is about a .300 career hitter. Bring him back1!1

If Buehrle continues pitching poorly -- which I don't believe he will, but then again I never thought his "slump" would go over a month -- you can't continue citing his career numbers. It may be health issues, who knows, but what I've seen this last month isn't encouraging. A good start in Kansas City tonight goes a long way to erasing July.

Chips
08-01-2006, 07:52 PM
What do career numbers matter now? Frank Thomas is about a .300 career hitter. Bring him back1!1

If Buehrle continues pitching poorly -- which I don't believe he will, but then again I never thought his "slump" would go over a month -- you can't continue citing his career numbers. It may be health issues, who knows, but what I've seen this last month isn't encouraging. A good start in Kansas City tonight goes a long way to erasing July.

You want to pull the plug on a guy who has been in a slump for roughly a month?

Ol' No. 2
08-01-2006, 07:53 PM
You want to pull the plug on a guy who has been in a slump for roughly a month?We should have gotten Coco Crisp when we had the chance.

MISoxfan
08-01-2006, 08:26 PM
What do career numbers matter now? Frank Thomas is about a .300 career hitter. Bring him back1!1

If Buehrle continues pitching poorly -- which I don't believe he will, but then again I never thought his "slump" would go over a month -- you can't continue citing his career numbers. It may be health issues, who knows, but what I've seen this last month isn't encouraging. A good start in Kansas City tonight goes a long way to erasing July.

Yes his career numbers carry much more weight than his last 5 starts. And have you seen how Thomas has been hitting lately?