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View Full Version : Did KW conspire to prevent Twins & Tigers from getting Soriano?


Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2006, 04:52 PM
We're still waiting for things to shake out, but here's something to consider:

The Sox' apparent failure to make a splashy deadline-day trade does not mean that KW and the Sox were not winners in one important respect. In seemingly driving up the price for Soriano, KW may have been instrumental in getting Washington's hopes up for a kings ransom in return for Soraino. As a result, the Twins and Tigers may have gotten cold feet.

Who knows if KW even asked Bowden about Soriano? Just the fact that a rumour was reported in the media - and was initially reported to include McCarthy - may have cooled the Twins' and Tigers' interest to the point that they decided not to go for the jugular and put any discussions for Soriano on the back burner.

If the Tigers and Twins couldn't strengthen themselves by adding Soriano, and KW played even a small role in that, he's shown himself to be a master "under the radar" manipulator.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 04:55 PM
No, I think Bowden just wanted too much for a rental player. No way where they EVER gonna get 3 top prospects, EVER. That is what Bowden wanted and now he can worry about breaking the bank to keep this guy.

I don't think Kenny had anything to do with the fact this deal didn't get done...None of the AL Central teams involved with the Gnats (among others) had any interest in busting up their entire farm system for this player.

Bowden did this one on his own. Kenny may have gotten in there just to set the bidding high initially, but as the days wore on no less than 5 teams showed strong interest in this deal and none were willing to be bent over the barrell for a 2 month player.

BeviBall!
07-31-2006, 04:58 PM
Bowden's an idiot... that's why Soriano will drive in 130 meaningless runs this year.

buehrle4cy05
07-31-2006, 04:59 PM
If Bowden was asking for Sanchez from Detroit and presumably Garza from Minnesota, there's no way either team would have done that deal.

Kenny may have had a hand in upping the price for Soriano for Garza/Sanchez/Santana (from LAA), though.

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 05:00 PM
I highly doubt it. Even if Kenny helped drive up the price for a little while, by Thursday everyone knew we were no longer chasing Soriano. If Bowden really wanted to deal Soriano he would have accepted some deal. The fact that Bowden held onto Soriano means that both he and the Nationals new owners are serious about their interest in re-signing Soriano.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2006, 05:00 PM
Kenny may have gotten in there just to set the bidding high initially, but as the days wore on no less than 5 teams showed strong interest in this deal and none were willing to be bent over the barrell for a 2 month player.

But in getting involved - even peripherally and only in the form of an unconfirmed rumour - KW might have made Bowden think he could fetch more in return than he realistically could.

The bottom line is that neither the Twins or the Tigers got Soriano. That's good news for the Sox.

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2006, 05:01 PM
If Bowden was asking for Sanchez from Detroit and presumably Garza from Minnesota, there's no way either team would have done that deal.

Kenny may have had a hand in upping the price for Soriano for Garza/Sanchez/Santana (from LAA), though.But if that's the case, wouldn't Bowden have just come back to Kenny and taken his offer? I just don't see how that would work. Bowden just had an inflated idea of what he could get. It's still not over. He could put Soriano through waivers and see who bites.

southwstchi4life
07-31-2006, 05:04 PM
Its a possibility. Remember reports had it that the tigers were really interested before the sox got in the middle of talks. Just a possibility

Gavin
07-31-2006, 05:05 PM
I highly doubt it. Even if Kenny helped drive up the price for a little while, by Thursday everyone knew we were no longer chasing Soriano. If Bowden really wanted to deal Soriano he would have accepted some deal. The fact that Bowden held onto Soriano means that both he and the Nationals new owners are serious about their interest in re-signing Soriano.

Agreed. Kenny Williams and Bowden didn't even seem to be flirting with each other in the end.

viagracat
07-31-2006, 05:58 PM
I just never thought it was going to happen, either. KW never came across as being an "oh boy, we better do something right now" kind of guy (this year) since he knows he built a pretty good team that should be winning. Don't totally rule out a waiver deal in the next month, although I doubt it. We're gonna sink or swim with these guys. Until a month ago, they were about the best unit in baseball.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2006, 06:00 PM
But if that's the case, wouldn't Bowden have just come back to Kenny and taken his offer? I just don't see how that would work. Bowden just had an inflated idea of what he could get. It's still not over. He could put Soriano through waivers and see who bites.

In my admittedly tinfoil conspiracy theory, KW wouldn't even have to make a formal offer.

He could have called Bowden and said, "What's your price for Soriano?" All Bowden would have to say is "I'm interested in McCarthy." At that point, all KW would have to do is say, "Let's talk more; I've got the Royals on the line."

Then all he would have to do is leak - of have someone else leak for him - that the Sox were interested in Soriano and that Bowden was interested in McCarthy. The reporter then calls Bowden and asks if he's had conversations with KW about Soriano, and if he indeed is interested in McCarthy in return. Bowden wouldn't be lying when he said yes. In fact, Bowden would WANT this rumour to get out, because even if KW would not be willing to give up McCarthy, the public knowledge of such a rumour would drive up the price.

Again, the bottom line is that the Twins and Tigers didn't get Soriano. That's a win for KW and for the Sox.

Also, doesn't a player only have to go through the waiver wire in order to be traded from a team in one league to a team in the other league? That is, aren't non-waiver trades still allowed between two (or presumably three or more) teams within the same league?

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2006, 06:17 PM
In my admittedly tinfoil conspiracy theory, KW wouldn't even have to make a formal offer.

He could have called Bowden and said, "What's your price for Soriano?" All Bowden would have to say is "I'm interested in McCarthy." At that point, all KW would have to do is say, "Let's talk more; I've got the Royals on the line."

Then all he would have to do is leak - of have someone else leak for him - that the Sox were interested in Soriano and that Bowden was interested in McCarthy. The reporter then calls Bowden and asks if he's had conversations with KW about Soriano, and if he indeed is interested in McCarthy in return. Bowden wouldn't be lying when he said yes. In fact, Bowden would WANT this rumour to get out, because even if KW would not be willing to give up McCarthy, the public knowledge of such a rumour would drive up the price.

Again, the bottom line is that the Twins and Tigers didn't get Soriano. That's a win for KW and for the Sox.

Also, doesn't a player only have to go through the waiver wire in order to be traded from a team in one league to a team in the other league? That is, aren't non-waiver trades still allowed between two (or presumably three or more) teams within the same league?Window dressing could cause a competing team to overpay for a player because they thought another team was interested, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. It could also discourage a team from making an offer if they thought the price was too high, but that doesn't appear to be the case, either. Assuming the Tigers and/or Twins wanted him and they made their best offers, then I don't see how what Kenny does has any effect. He might have initially inflated Bowden's idea of what Soriano was worth, but as the deadline approached, he's either going to take the best deal he can get or pass.

All trades after today have to pass through waivers. Claim order is by league, meaning that all NL teams would get a shot at claiming Soriano before any AL team, but it's still by waiver claim.

35th&Shields
07-31-2006, 06:30 PM
Then all he would have to do is leak - of have someone else leak for him - that the Sox were interested in Soriano and that Bowden was interested in McCarthy. The reporter then calls Bowden and asks if he's had conversations with KW about Soriano, and if he indeed is interested in McCarthy in return. Bowden wouldn't be lying when he said yes. In fact, Bowden would WANT this rumour to get out, because even if KW would not be willing to give up McCarthy, the public knowledge of such a rumour would drive up the price.

What's you're arguing is that Kenny is placing "market pressure" by being in the mix for a potential WhiteSox-Nationals trade for Soriano. The problem with that is when earlier in the week Kenny said, "I'm not making any trades." With that any leverage Kenny had regarding Soriano was gone. I happen to believe that KW was serious, at least initially, about getting Soriano. As he has said repeatedly, he will do whatever is necessary to make the team better.

Mohoney
07-31-2006, 06:31 PM
All trades after today have to pass through waivers. Claim order is by league, meaning that all NL teams would get a shot at claiming Soriano before any AL team, but it's still by waiver claim.

Exactly. The Mets would get rights to Soriano over even the lowly Royals.

With so many NL teams "in contention", I doubt an NL player gets moved to an AL team unless the salary is ridiculous.

EdHerman12
07-31-2006, 06:33 PM
I really think if this ownership group in DC is serious about baseball they will get Soriano resigned and build a solid club. They have potential. I know a bussiness associate who's lived in that area all his life and he swears that this franchise is miles away from being as inept as the Senators were prior to their move to Texas. The sports landscape has chanced in that part of the country.

Personally, I never thought Soriano was the answer to our problem unless he can give us 7 strong innings of solid pitching!

GO SOX!

ma-gaga
07-31-2006, 06:34 PM
In my admittedly tinfoil conspiracy theory, KW wouldn't even have to make a formal offer.
...
Again, the bottom line is that the Twins and Tigers didn't get Soriano. That's a win for KW and for the Sox.


Well, if it makes you feel better. Then Kenny Williams completely derailed Soriano to the Twins. They had him in their grasp, but Kenny swooped in offered BA and all of a sudden the deal was off. Soriano was now worth "twice as much".

:cool:

hawkjt
07-31-2006, 06:57 PM
bottom line is that the three teams I am most concerned about, Tigers,Twins,and Red Sox really did nothing to improve.

I am pleased by that. The yanks did add a bunch with Abreu,Lidle,and Craig Wilson. When Matsui and Sheff get back they will have too many guys.

But I see them flying by the red sox anyway leaving us in the race with the above mentioned teams.

Sigh of relief today on my part.

bluestar
07-31-2006, 07:13 PM
I honestly think the Tigers improved a little. Casey is no world beater, but he can scatter some hits, get on base, and he provides a left-handed bat. Shelton was doing absolutely nothing for them and was often a defensive liability. I think this acquisition was very under-the-radar for them and may pay them great dividends. But I hope not, of course.

Tiger23
07-31-2006, 07:16 PM
FWIW....Dave Dombrowski was just interviewed on the pregame show, and was asked about Soriano. He stated that through the entire process Bowden insisted one specific player be included. That player was Cameron Maybin, whom the Tigers are much higher on than Sanchez. He said there was absolutely no way they were going to trade Maybin, and thus there was no way they were going to get Soriano.

dickallen15
07-31-2006, 07:24 PM
For what teams seemed to be offering for Soriano, the Nationals may be better off just taking the 2 draft picks if he signs elsewhere and spending the money they have budgeted for him on some more players.

bigdommer
07-31-2006, 07:36 PM
I think Bowden got it right where he deserved it. He was asking for way too much, teams like the Sox and Marlins toyed with him to drive the price up, and when the music stopped there were no chairs. With new ownership and a new stadium deal, there is going to be a lot of pressure to sign Soriano to an overinflated deal. And, if he resists the urge, he'll have 2 draft picks, $5 mill gone in bonus money, and 4-5 years to see if he played it right, if he still has a job (doubtful).