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View Full Version : McGwire in the HOF? yes or no?


Thome25
07-31-2006, 10:10 AM
McGwire is going to be in the next round of players on the HOF ballot next year. Do you think he'll get voted in next year? And if notdo you think he'll ever get voted in?

I personally hope and pray that he NEVER gets in. The testimony in front of congress pretty much sealed his fate. He has had numerous chances to deny ever using performance enhancing drugs and has never done so.

In the process he has also gone into hiding and avoided the issue totally like a coward. I hope the writers NEVER vote him in.

Also, slightly off the subject I hope more evidence comes to light on him and Sammy Sosa as well.

McGwire, Bonds, Canseco and in my opinion Sosa are all a disgrace to the great game of baseball.

Lyle Mouton
07-31-2006, 10:11 AM
From everything i've heard, it seems that he won't. I certainly wouldn't put him in at this point.

fquaye149
07-31-2006, 10:15 AM
I think he belongs there numbers wise. I think numberswise if he's not in the hall the hall suffers for it. NUMBERSWISE. Therefore, the only reason to keep him out would be steroids. Is there enough doubt? Perhaps. This one will be interesting to watch.

Personally I've always hated him and the way he plays, steroids notwithstanding. I wouldn't mind seeing him miss out.

Thome25
07-31-2006, 10:15 AM
Did anyone ever notice that most of the suspected players have a connection to the San Francisco bay area and/or Texas?

McGwire=Oakland
Canseco=Oakland/Texas
Bonds= San Francisco
Sosa= Texas
Palmiero=Texas

KMKsuburbannoise
07-31-2006, 10:19 AM
I think he will be in the HOF eventually but not this time around. I don't know what to think about it. He did put up big numbers, he did get a lot of people interested in the game, but he also looked like a total ass in front of congress, and he put a dark cloud over the game. I just don't know what to think about him.

Dan Mega
07-31-2006, 10:21 AM
:(: When McGwire was playing, did he break any MLB rules by using performance enhancers? If the answer is no, then there might be an argument for him getting in the hall.

Mr.1Dog
07-31-2006, 10:21 AM
[quote=Thome25]Did anyone ever notice that most of the suspected players have a connection to the San Francisco bay area and/or Texas?

What about Mr. Pudge Rodriguez? It also appears as if he has slimmed down 20-40 pounds of muscle. I wonder why he isn't being mentioned anymore about the topic of steroids.

davenicholson
07-31-2006, 10:27 AM
Cheating aside, do McGwire's numbers alone merit HOF induction? I'm certainly not a stat head, but besides homers, how do his career numbers stack up against current members of The Hall? .263 batting average? 1596 strikeouts? I'm just askin' here, but if I had a vote, it would definitely be "No".

DaleJRFan
07-31-2006, 10:45 AM
Did anyone ever notice that most of the suspected players have a connection to the San Francisco bay area and/or Texas?

McGwire=Oakland
Canseco=Oakland/Texas
Bonds= San Francisco
Sosa= Texas
Palmiero=Texas

You also forgot:
Ivan Rodriguez = Texas
Juan Gonzalez = Texas

DaleJRFan
07-31-2006, 10:47 AM
Cheating aside, do McGwire's numbers alone merit HOF induction? I'm certainly not a stat head, but besides homers, how do his career numbers stack up against current members of The Hall? .263 batting average? 1596 strikeouts? I'm just askin' here, but if I had a vote, it would definitely be "No".

If Don Mattingly isn't going to the hall of fame, then McGuire is a definite NO.

Deuce
07-31-2006, 10:49 AM
No. He doesn't deserve it, based on his numbers alone.

If Don Mattingly isn't going to the hall of fame, then McGuire is a definite NO.Great example. Mattingly was a much better athelete, better teammate and with better numbers to boot. If he isn't in, then McGuire should be out of the question.

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 10:56 AM
Im torn. I think numbers alone YES he gets in. The Writers have put in other lower average higher home run total guys. He also never tested positive, and I am kind of an innocent until proven guilty guy. But when you go on the stand and plead the 5th, then you all but admit you're guilty. I wouldnt vote for him, but I also wouldnt be upset if he did get in.

There are a ton of quality players on the next ballot tho

Mac, Ripken, Tony G, Harold, Paul Oniel among many others.

Madvora
07-31-2006, 10:59 AM
Oh I can't wait until this is up for a vote.
This is going to be a huge deal in the news.

Thome25
07-31-2006, 11:00 AM
You also forgot:
Ivan Rodriguez = Texas
Juan Gonzalez = Texas


Thanks. So how many players do we have that are from the San Francisco Bay Area an/or Texas that are suspected of using performance enhancers?

McGwire= Oakland
Canseco= Oakland/Texas
Bonds= San Francisco
Sosa= Texas
Palmiero= Texas
Ivan Rodriguez= Texas
Juan Gonzalez= Texas

Kind of off subject but,I refuse to call Rodriguez "Pudge". To me there is and always will be only one Pudge and he wore #72 for our Beloved Chicago White Sox.

RavenswoodFan
07-31-2006, 11:01 AM
I'd vote..... NO!

monkeypants
07-31-2006, 11:04 AM
Does a glorified Dave Kingman on steriods get into the Hall? No.
And I don't want him in there either.

DaleJRFan
07-31-2006, 11:04 AM
Kind of off subject but,I refuse to call Rodriguez "Pudge". To me there is and always will be only one Pudge and he wore #72 for our Beloved Chicago White Sox.

As much as we can all insist that I-Rod was doping, and as much as we hate him now that he is a Sox killing Tiger, you have to admit that he is one damn good catcher and has had himself one helluva major league career.

chaotic8512
07-31-2006, 11:08 AM
Thanks. So how many players do we have that are from the San Francisco Bay Area an/or Texas that are suspected of using performance enhancers?

McGwire= Oakland
Canseco= Oakland/Texas
Bonds= San Francisco
Sosa= Texas
Palmiero= Texas
Ivan Rodriguez= Texas
Juan Gonzalez= Texas

Kind of off subject but,I refuse to call Rodriguez "Pudge". To me there is and always will be only one Pudge and he wore #72 for our Beloved Chicago White Sox.

I highly doubt Sosa was exposed to steroids in Texas... I suppose there's a chance that a connection remained, but I doubt it followed him all the way to the Cubs, which is obviously where he transformed.

Biggest one you're leaving off is Giambi (Oakland).

As far as McGwire, I agree that he lost his chance for respectability and any chance to have a shot at the HOF by totally shutting down at the Congressional hearings. No way should he go in.

Thome25
07-31-2006, 11:11 AM
Thanks. So how many players do we have that are from the San Francisco Bay Area an/or Texas that are suspected of using performance enhancers?

McGwire= Oakland
Canseco= Oakland/Texas
Bonds= San Francisco
Sosa= Texas
Palmiero= Texas
Ivan Rodriguez= Texas
Juan Gonzalez= Texas
Giambi= Oakland

And yeah Sosa still coulda had connections to the Texas organization. He was probably in the minors with some of those guys.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-31-2006, 12:02 PM
He will get in.

The media, who votes on this, can usually be counted on to do the wrong thing including several HOF votes in the past.

I shift to Daver's camp with each passing election (the hall of fame is a joke and I am not going to worry about it).

PaulDrake
07-31-2006, 12:34 PM
Cheating aside, do McGwire's numbers alone merit HOF induction? I'm certainly not a stat head, but besides homers, how do his career numbers stack up against current members of The Hall? .263 batting average? 1596 strikeouts? I'm just askin' here, but if I had a vote, it would definitely be "No". I totally agree. Even if you take steroids out of the equation, McGwire is not Hall worthy. He was way too one dimensional for my liking. I would also like to add that of the four major professional sports baseball has by far the largest number of inductees that don't belong.

mwc44
07-31-2006, 12:36 PM
If Bonds hits number 756 and is then recognized by MLB as the "all-time home run king," how can McGwire be denied after what he did to resurrect the game in 1998?

His overall numbers may not all that great, but he (with the assistance of that other ego-maniac) helped baseball recover from the "work stoppage" of 1994.

It may not be right, but if one is recognized, the other has to be. :(:

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2006, 12:50 PM
If I'm voting: No

If I'm predicting: Yes

StatHead21
07-31-2006, 01:11 PM
No, no and no.

He's not getting in any time soon, maybe 10-15 years from now...

chaerulez
07-31-2006, 01:12 PM
Thanks. So how many players do we have that are from the San Francisco Bay Area an/or Texas that are suspected of using performance enhancers?

McGwire= Oakland
Canseco= Oakland/Texas
Bonds= San Francisco
Sosa= Texas
Palmiero= Texas
Ivan Rodriguez= Texas
Juan Gonzalez= Texas

Kind of off subject but,I refuse to call Rodriguez "Pudge". To me there is and always will be only one Pudge and he wore #72 for our Beloved Chicago White Sox.

It's simple. Canseco has claimed he was the first big time juicer and he introduced it to McGwire. Then when he went to Texas he said he introduced it to Raffy, Rodriguez, and Gonzalez. When he came back into his second tour of duty with the A's, I don't remember if he actually got Giambi started on steroids or if it was McGwire. A few other Giants were named with Bonds as steroid users, none of them real big names (I think it was Benito Santiago and some other backup player).

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 01:21 PM
wow just wow.

I get the people saying no over the roids but to call him a glorified Dave Kingmen and claim that Donny baseball should be in ahead of him is insane.


His OPS is .982, sure he didn't hit for a high average but he made up for it with Walks 1300 of them. He has the best At bat per home run rate in history, is 11th all time in OPS+ and was known as a pretty good defender. The guy has better career numbers than Thomas, Manny, Thome, Griffey Jr....

TornLabrum
07-31-2006, 01:46 PM
"I don't want to look at the past. I just want to look ahead to the future."

NO

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 01:52 PM
No. He doesn't deserve it, based on his numbers alone.

Great example. Mattingly was a much better athelete, better teammate and with better numbers to boot. If he isn't in, then McGuire should be out of the question.

Agreed. Mattingly won a batting title, an MVP, and nine Gold Gloves. McGwire has one Gold Glove, but never won either of the other awards that Donny Baseball did.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 01:55 PM
His OPS is .982, sure he didn't hit for a high average but he made up for it with Walks 1300 of them. He has the best At bat per home run rate in history, is 11th all time in OPS+ and was known as a pretty good defender. The guy has better career numbers than Thomas, Manny, Thome, Griffey Jr....

You just made our point for us. The reason that McGwire has better numbers than Thomas, Griffey, etc. is because he used steroids in the first place. That's why he doesn't belong in the HOF.

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 01:57 PM
Agreed. Mattingly won a batting title, an MVP, and nine Gold Gloves. McGwire has one Gold Glove, but never won either of the other awards that Donny Baseball did.


Should we care what sports writers think?

Tejada won the MVP the same year A-rod beat him in every way.

Big Mo of Boston beat out Albert Belle when Belle was clearly the better.

Ted Williams lost the MVP when winning the triple crown (twice!)

Mattingly was well on his way but started to suck when he hit 32, it happens.

Big Mac was an offensive force for 16 years, his career numbers match up with the best sluggers of all time. He best comp is Hermon Killabrew, I can see why people don't like the guy but his stats are the of a clear hall of famer.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 02:01 PM
Big Mac was an offensive force for 16 years, his career numbers match up with the best sluggers of all time. He best comp is Hermon Killabrew, I can see why people don't like the guy but his stats are the of a clear hall of famer.

Not if his numbers were inflated by steroids. McGwire cheated, and then tried to slink his way out the mess he created for himself by saying that he didn't want to talk about the past. If Pete Rose and Joe Jackson cannot be in the HOF for what they did, then McGwire shouldn't be, either. He's a fraud, and frauds don't deserve to be honored.

Soxfanspcu11
07-31-2006, 02:03 PM
No!

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 02:04 PM
You just made our point for us. The reason that McGwire has better numbers than Thomas, Griffey, etc. is because he used steroids in the first place. That's why he doesn't belong in the HOF.


You really want to play that game?

We really don't know if he used steriods (though we can be almost certain)

How do I know Griffey didn't juice, boy he sure gets hurt a lot
(and I don't the he is)

How about Thomas?

How do I know Manny isn't taking a needle to the butt from Papi right now?

I don't think we can exclude players for roids, it's sad as this era will always be looked at in a different lights. But in the end, all stats are about context. Babe Ruth was awesome but didn't play against blacks or left handed specialists. Bob Gibson pitched when the mound was higher. Sosa, Big Mac and Juan Gone never were found to be cheating, can we really exlude them?


(On a side note: Now that the roids thing blew up in baseball those found to be cheating need to be punished, but should baseball be different than the rule of law... shouldn't players be judged for the rules of the era they played in. For instance if I drank a beer during the times of Capone that would be a crime, if I did so before it would not... )

AuroraSoxFan
07-31-2006, 02:04 PM
I don't wanna see him in the hall. Same with anyone else that shot up that stuff. However, I'd have some respect for anyone who could come out with the truth, own up to it, and apologize to the game. And Canseco doesn't count. He may have admitted it, but it was only so he could sell books and make some $$ for himself. Truth or not, he has shown no remorse. McGwire's "I dont wanna talk about the past" line in front of Congress was seriously one of the most cowardly things I have ever heard.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 02:07 PM
You really want to play that game?

We really don't know if he used steriods (though we can be almost certain)

How do I know Griffey didn't juice, boy he sure gets hurt a lot
(and I don't the he is)

How about Thomas?

How do I know Manny isn't taking a needle to the butt from Papi right now?

I don't think we can exclude players for roids, it's sad as this era will always be looked at in a different lights. But in the end, all stats are about context. Babe Ruth was awesome but didn't play against blacks or left handed specialists. Bob Gibson pitched when the mound was higher. Sosa, Big Mac and Juan Gone never were found to be cheating, can we really exlude them?


(On a side note: Now that the roids thing blew up in baseball those found to be cheating need to be punished, but should baseball be different than the rule of law... shouldn't players be judged for the rules of the era they played in. For instance if I drank a beer during the times of Capone that would be a crime, if I did so before it would not... )

"Andro" is considered a steroid by the medical community. McGwire has admitted to taking it in the past (1998). McGwire took steroids.

Rdubb4
07-31-2006, 02:08 PM
Not if his numbers were inflated by steroids. McGwire cheated, and then tried to slink his way out the mess he created for himself by saying that he didn't want to talk about the past. If Pete Rose and Joe Jackson cannot be in the HOF for what they did, then McGwire shouldn't be, either. He's a fraud, and frauds don't deserve to be honored.

Two words for you. Prove it.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 02:09 PM
Two words for you. Prove it.

See my previous post.

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 02:10 PM
I don't wanna see him in the hall. Same with anyone else that shot up that stuff. However, I'd have some respect for anyone who could come out with the truth, own up to it, and apologize to the game. And Canseco doesn't count. He may have admitted it, but it was only so he could sell books and make some $$ for himself. Truth or not, he has shown no remorse. McGwire's "I dont wanna talk about the past" line in front of Congress was seriously one of the most cowardly things I have ever heard.

He could have just lied and people would have believed him just like they believed Palmerio. I really have no idea why he didn't lie truth be told, it would have been a lot easier for him

I kinda respect the fact that he was willing to fall on his sword in the eyes of publid opinoin but I do agree he did it in a half ass kinda way. It's not like he could be in any legal trouble for saying he used. People admit drug use all the time.


In a wierd way I think he wanted to and maybe still wants to admit it. His lawyers just convinced him not to.

In terms of cashing in more on his name, keeping his lagacy and avoiding all the wispers he should have just waived his finger like Raffy.

And boy how dumb is Palmerio.

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 02:12 PM
"Andro" is considered a steroid by the medical community. McGwire has admitted to taking it in the past (1998). McGwire took steroids.

At the time Andro was legal in both the US and in the MLB...


I believe he took roids and used the andro as a smoke screen but belief alone is not enough to hang someone over.

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2006, 02:19 PM
McGwire is going to be in the next round of players on the HOF ballot next year. Do you think he'll get voted in next year? And if notdo you think he'll ever get voted in?

I personally hope and pray that he NEVER gets in. The testimony in front of congress pretty much sealed his fate. He has had numerous chances to deny ever using performance enhancing drugs and has never done so.

In the process he has also gone into hiding and avoided the issue totally like a coward. I hope the writers NEVER vote him in.

Also, slightly off the subject I hope more evidence comes to light on him and Sammy Sosa as well.

McGwire, Bonds, Canseco and in my opinion Sosa are all a disgrace to the great game of baseball.

Mcgwire will have a special part in the hearts of voters cuz it was the sosa\mcgwire race that revitalized baseball. Needless to say, the discussion of it will bring back issues of bringin rose into the hall. I dont know what u mean about him being a coward. Since his retirement, the only time he was even seen at a ball game was when the cardinals announcer died, he was there for the memorial game. He seems to really distant himself from baseball and focus on his son and golf.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 02:20 PM
At the time Andro was legal in both the US and in the MLB...


I believe he took roids and used the andro as a smoke screen but belief alone is not enough to hang someone over.

If the majority of the baseball writers and members of the veterans committee- both of whom have the opportunity to select players for HOF induction- believe that he used steroids, there may in fact be plenty of rope to hang McGwire. The reality is, just about everyone associated with baseball is suspicious of his activities during the last half of his career. If enough people believe he cheated, I can't see them voting him in, regardless of what his numbers look like.

Hall of Fame voting is subjective. There are many who believe that Frank Thomas may be hurt by the fact that he has been primarilly a DH since '98, as many voters don't recognize it as an actual position. It's not much of a stretch to believe that McGwire will be left out of the 'Hall because of his ties to steroids.

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2006, 02:21 PM
"Andro" is considered a steroid by the medical community. McGwire has admitted to taking it in the past (1998). McGwire took steroids.

He also said he took creatine. At that time, they were considered supplements. Now he came out durin the race and said he took it and the only focus was they didnt want kids takin it cuz its not known the side effects. You cannot attack him for what was legal\allowed then. Forms of uppers are taken by baseball players but now limited due to the drug testing, does that mean any player suspected of maybe taking speed to be able to play a day\nighter is less of an athlete?

StockdaleForVeep
07-31-2006, 02:23 PM
You really want to play that game?

We really don't know if he used steriods (though we can be almost certain)

How do I know Griffey didn't juice, boy he sure gets hurt a lot
(and I don't the he is)

How about Thomas?

How do I know Manny isn't taking a needle to the butt from Papi right now?

I don't think we can exclude players for roids, it's sad as this era will always be looked at in a different lights. But in the end, all stats are about context. Babe Ruth was awesome but didn't play against blacks or left handed specialists. Bob Gibson pitched when the mound was higher. Sosa, Big Mac and Juan Gone never were found to be cheating, can we really exlude them?


(On a side note: Now that the roids thing blew up in baseball those found to be cheating need to be punished, but should baseball be different than the rule of law... shouldn't players be judged for the rules of the era they played in. For instance if I drank a beer during the times of Capone that would be a crime, if I did so before it would not... )

Thomas is the same size as when he played tight end in auburn. Unless he roided before college, you cannot say he was on roids. Griffey is the same size, if not bigger but in a bad way due to aging and due to sittin on his arse for seasons due to injuries

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 02:23 PM
If the majority of the baseball writers and members of the veterans committee- both of whom have the opportunity to select players for HOF induction- believe that he used steroids, there may in fact be plenty of rope to hang McGwire. The reality is, just about everyone associated with baseball is suspicious of his activities during the last half of his career. If enough people believe he cheated, I can't see them voting him in, regardless of what his numbers look like.

That very well may be correct but that does not mean it's right.

I'm not a sap and understand all the reasons that we know he used, I just don't like that suspicion is now enough to convict.

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 02:30 PM
Thomas is the same size as when he played tight end in auburn. Unless he roided before college, you cannot say he was on roids. Griffey is the same size, if not bigger but in a bad way due to aging and due to sittin on his arse for seasons due to injuries

I agree with you that they are not candidates for cheating, my point is that we will never no though. Plenty of skinny fast minor league players are getting found to be cheating as well, so body type does not always tell the whole story.

My big fear is once we start pointing fingers everyone becomes a suspect...

Something that I've already seen happen to a certain extent.

Players who I've heard whispers about with no founding:

Ortiz (mostly pissed yankee fans though :D:)
Clemens
Damon
Thomas
Gange
Trot Nixon
Peavy
the Boone brothers
Glavine
Pujols
Edmonds

What do all these names have to do with each other? They all play baseball and that's about it. That's the worst thing about this whole damn scandal in my eyes, the fact that a lot of people can't enjoy good play anymore thinking that everyones cheating, it hurts the game.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 02:35 PM
He also said he took creatine. At that time, they were considered supplements. Now he came out durin the race and said he took it and the only focus was they didnt want kids takin it cuz its not known the side effects. You cannot attack him for what was legal\allowed then. Forms of uppers are taken by baseball players but now limited due to the drug testing, does that mean any player suspected of maybe taking speed to be able to play a day\nighter is less of an athlete?

Just becuse something was legal does not mean that it was morally acceptable. As I said earlier, Hall of Fame voting is subjective, and there are several writers who may hold McGwire's previous activities against him. It may not be entirely fair, but perhaps McGwire should have thought of that before he started using in the first place.

As I also said, I think the cloud of suspicion surrounding him is more than enough rope with which to hang him. He won't have to worry about any legal action being taken against him, but his behavior is questionable enough to keep him out of the HOF IMO, and I think it will. Again, it may not be entirely fair, but McGwire did this to himself.

RKMeibalane
07-31-2006, 02:37 PM
That very well may be correct but that does not mean it's right.

I'm not a sap and understand all the reasons that we know he used, I just don't like that suspicion is now enough to convict.

To be honest with you, I don't like it, either, but McGwire did this to himself. Nobody twisted his arm and told him to do anything that might jeopardize his HOF chances. He made his bed, and he can sleep in it.

AuroraSoxFan
07-31-2006, 02:42 PM
I can see the point there. I suppose big Mac can look into a mirror and say "at least I didn't tell the US Congress a bold faced lie like Raffy." But i still see no reason he can't own up to what he did. If he could do that and apologize for it he'd probably land himself some HOF votes, which it looks like he'll really need if he wants in.

He could have just lied and people would have believed him just like they believed Palmerio. I really have no idea why he didn't lie truth be told, it would have been a lot easier for him

I kinda respect the fact that he was willing to fall on his sword in the eyes of publid opinoin but I do agree he did it in a half ass kinda way. It's not like he could be in any legal trouble for saying he used. People admit drug use all the time.


In a wierd way I think he wanted to and maybe still wants to admit it. His lawyers just convinced him not to.

In terms of cashing in more on his name, keeping his lagacy and avoiding all the wispers he should have just waived his finger like Raffy.

And boy how dumb is Palmerio.

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 02:46 PM
Just becuse something was legal does not mean that it was morally acceptable. As I said earlier, Hall of Fame voting is subjective, and there are several writers who may hold McGwire's previous activities against him. It may not be entirely fair, but perhaps McGwire should have thought of that before he started using in the first place.

As I also said, I think the cloud of suspicion surrounding him is more than enough rope with which to hang him. He won't have to worry about any legal action being taken against him, but his behavior is questionable enough to keep him out of the HOF IMO, and I think it will. Again, it may not be entirely fair, but McGwire did this to himself.


Ah yes, the baseball hall of fame. No greater collection of moral good doers in the world, except maybe congress.


If good doing includes

Beating wives
hating blacks
hating hispanics
cheating on your wife
Fathering kids and no paying a dime in child support
getting into bar fights
killing someone (this is alleged)
drinking enough booze to Kill Guns and Roses
Doing speed
Doing coke
Doing hookers
being greedy
being mean to fans

sure their are guys like Clemente or Ryan or Gerhig but their are a lot of Cobbs and Ruths in their as well

and I ain't no moralist.

"wrong" sox fan
07-31-2006, 02:49 PM
I can see the point there. I suppose big Mac can look into a mirror and say "at least I didn't tell the US Congress a bold faced lie like Raffy." But i still see no reason he can't own up to what he did. If he could do that and apologize for it he'd probably land himself some HOF votes, which it looks like he'll really need if he wants in.
yeah I bet he regrets just saying "man it was the 80s we were all doing that, we were stupid. It's not healthy and as much as it helps some players it hurts others. Who would want to be a lab rat, that's what we were. Real stupid thing to do. I'm sorry"

people didn't hate Ken Cam. when he admitted it and for what ever reason people like to say Giambi is a stand up guy for what he said, what ever the heck it was.

MrX
08-01-2006, 12:48 AM
Rob Neyer has a story on ESPN.com where he polled 100 baseball writers, some that vote for the hall and some who don't, and asked them if they would vote for McGwire. If the results are anything like the actual vote he won't come close to getting in next year.

PKalltheway
08-01-2006, 01:24 AM
Wow, this is going to get more interesting as we get closer to January. I'll say he gets in, but not on the first ballot. Maybe not even the second, third, fourth or fifth. He'll get in through the writers though.

Wsoxmike59
08-01-2006, 07:02 AM
I like Mark McGwire but I hope he DOESN'T get in to the HOF.

I think the players of his ilk.....Bonds, Sosa, Giambi, etc....sent THE WRONG MESSAGE to the American youth that if you want to get ahead it's OK to cheat. They alone are responsible for the mess the game is in.

The cheaters made a traveshamockery of the record book and for that I will NEVER forgive them.

No way does Big Mac get my vote.

Oblong
08-01-2006, 08:50 AM
Maybe this was already mentioned but Harmon Killebrew didn't get in on the first ballot so the precedent has been set already, even without the steroid issue.

I don't think Mark will get in. I think Bonds will because he was already a HOFer before the big spike in home runs. I think the voters will consider that and won't hold the steroid/performance enhancer stuff against him.

PennStater98r
08-01-2006, 09:37 AM
If Don Mattingly isn't going to the hall of fame, then McGuire is a definite NO.

If it could be proven that McGwire did not take steroids, he's more deserving than Mattingly. He was not a one dimensional player - the BB he drew was significant. He had a good stretch there where he had well over a .400 OBP.

PennStater98r
08-01-2006, 09:40 AM
:(: When McGwire was playing, did he break any MLB rules by using performance enhancers? If the answer is no, then there might be an argument for him getting in the hall.

He may not have broken any MLB rules, but he broke the laws of our states and countries by taking an illegal drug. However, that said, I am pretty sure Ty Cobb broke the law when he went into the stands and beat a disabled fan.

BigPapaPump
08-01-2006, 09:57 AM
McGwire and Sosa saved baseball in '98. For that alone they should both be in the HOF.

Thome25
08-01-2006, 11:02 AM
McGwire and Sosa saved baseball in '98. For that alone they should both be in the HOF.

God forbid it, but if all the information ever comes out about how they both cheated and took performance enhancing drugs then they both have the chance to be the ones that destroy the great game of baseball as well.

For that, they should both be banned from the HOF for life.

BigPapaPump
08-01-2006, 01:12 PM
God forbid it, but if all the information ever comes out about how they both cheated and took performance enhancing drugs then they both have the chance to be the ones that destroy the great game of baseball as well.

For that, they should both be banned from the HOF for life.

Steroid use was to widely used to keep any player out of the HOF. Who knows, it's possible many of those homeruns hit were off of pitchers who were hitting the needle too. :(:

"wrong" sox fan
08-01-2006, 01:22 PM
Do we know Sosa cheated? I mean a lot of people are saying, who knows when Sosa started using?


What evidence do we have aside from a power surge in his late 20s and the fct that he bulked up.

The Racehorse
08-01-2006, 01:55 PM
Do we know Sosa cheated? I mean a lot of people are saying, who knows when Sosa started using?


What evidence do we have aside from a power surge in his late 20s and the fct that he bulked up.

The evidence is ALL the GM's who refuse to sign him.

"wrong" sox fan
08-01-2006, 04:55 PM
The evidence is ALL the GM's who refuse to sign him.

What GM would want a guy with a bad rep who can't stay healthy and has seen his walks halfed every year for the past 4 seasons? Also he wanted a decent sized contract.

I don't think that point is really valid.