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BeviBall!
07-30-2006, 03:47 PM
2 of 3.

Like I said in the game thread... this is the baseball gods paying us back for Friday. 2 of 3 is a fair outcome.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 03:48 PM
Nice series win. Go on to KC and win that series.

salty99
07-30-2006, 03:48 PM
Come On Jenks!

SoxShirt
07-30-2006, 03:48 PM
Damn. Lets win tomorrow...

goon
07-30-2006, 03:48 PM
2 of 3.

should have been 3 of 3.

****ing bullpen sucks right now.

viagracat
07-30-2006, 03:49 PM
Is Tatis available?

JUribe1989
07-30-2006, 03:49 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.

1951Campbell
07-30-2006, 03:49 PM
Hey, I'll take 2 outta 3 from here on out...

buehrle4cy05
07-30-2006, 03:49 PM
The way Jenks pitched today, I could care less if he ever pitches for the Sox again.:rolleyes:

Go get 'em in KC. Then the fun really begins.

lowestofthelow
07-30-2006, 03:49 PM
Nice Billy Koch impression by Jenks today.

ndgt10
07-30-2006, 03:49 PM
2 of 3.

Like I said in the game thread... this is the baseball gods paying us back for Friday. 2 of 3 is a fair outcome.
I love the thread title, despite the outcome.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 03:49 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.

Insane.

Malgar 12
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
Nice series win. Go on to KC and win that series.

How about a sweep? When is the last time the Sox did that?

MarySwiss
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.

Er, no. Jenks is still the closer. Thornton, however, is currently far and away our best set-up man.

peeonwrigley
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.

No.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
Jenks was in for the third straight day and was not effective. I'm sure there is someone with some stats out there on how Jenks does when fresh vs. when he pitches in back to back games. I would like to know, because he was not effective yesterday, either.

Thornton only threw 7 pitches. We shoud have left him in.

buehrle4cy05
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.
How many times have I heard it before...a great middle reliever automatically converts into a great closer. I could probably count the # of times something like that has succeeded on my hand.

Sure worked for Octavio Dotel.

Jerko
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
Could have EASILY been swept that series, so I'll take 2 out of 3.

BeviBall!
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
should have been 3 of 3.

****ing bullpen sucks right now.

3 in-a-row for Bobby in 95+ heat, plus he's been ordinary since the break (ERA nearing 4), but he's still the man. Bounce back in KC.

CHISOXFAN13
07-30-2006, 03:51 PM
Can someone explain to me why you bring the infield in with a painfully slow runner at the plate with one out??

If Iguchi is at double-play depth, the inning is over, and this game is still being played.

I seriously have to question Ozzie on this decision.

SoxFanPrope
07-30-2006, 03:51 PM
It seems that last year, all the questionable moves that Ozzie made worked. Whether it was just plain dumb luck, they worked. Now, they do not seem to be working, and look what is happening.

MadetoOrta
07-30-2006, 03:51 PM
One would hope that 7 runs should be enough with our pitching staff. Anyhow, let's start winning series after series again. That would've been nice.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2006, 03:51 PM
well, the bullpen and defense (and coaching decisions I might add) blew this game.

Question: Why was the infield not at double-play depth against one of the slowest batters on the Orioles? I understand wanting to go home with the ball, but you're taking a hell of a risk when you bring the infield in.

Jurr
07-30-2006, 03:51 PM
Nice Billy Koch impression by Jenks today.
Very apt name.

Jenks had it in control, hits Tejada, then the next kid reaches out two feet wide and dinks a pitch into right. It happens.

CLR01
07-30-2006, 03:51 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.



:whoflungpoo

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 03:51 PM
Leyland hanging Bonderman out badly in the 8th of this twins tigers game. He just balked in the tying run.

viagracat
07-30-2006, 03:52 PM
Had the Sox won I would have had WSI's very first Ross Gload-inspired sig. Insterad, y'all are stuck with my great sig as it stands right now. :(:

greenpeach
07-30-2006, 03:52 PM
With any kind of decent pitching this would've been a three game sweep. I'm not happy at all. And I'm sure that Ozzie isn't jumping up & down & clicking his heels about taking two out of three from a mediocre at best Orioles team.

Jurr
07-30-2006, 03:52 PM
One would hope that 7 runs should be enough with our pitching staff. Anyhow, let's start winning series after series again. That would've been nice.
Ummmmm...I think we did win the series. :rolleyes:

MrX
07-30-2006, 03:52 PM
The starters need to get their **** together or else the bullpen will be toast halfway through that stretch in August where they play all those games without a break.

Cotts sucks, Jenks just looked like he was out of gas. He's never looked sharp when he's had to pitch 2 day in a row, this really shouldn't surprise anyone.

Ozzie running the Z line-up out there that put up 2 runs against Cy Chen was pathetic

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 03:52 PM
It seems that last year, all the questionable moves that Ozzie made worked. Whether it was just plain dumb luck, they worked. Now, they do not seem to be working, and look what is happening.

Yeah that decision to hit tejada was awful. Relax. Stuff happens.

Bill Naharodny
07-30-2006, 03:52 PM
One would hope that 7 runs should be enough with our pitching staff.

Coop will fix it.

ShoelessJoeS
07-30-2006, 03:54 PM
If the infield wasn't playing in, Gooch could have easily started the inning ending 5-6-3 DP in the 9th....oh well.

Cotts needs to be demoted to mop-up duty.

How about Dye though...MVP, MVP, MVP

SouthsideChi
07-30-2006, 03:54 PM
I have defended Ozzie ona lot of his questionable decisions so far this season but enough is enough. He has to be held responsible for the loss in this game. Yet again Mackowiak starts in centerfield, where he completely blows. Double play depth ? What's that? Maybe in Venezuela it means something else, that's Ozzie's excuse for everything else.

DickAllen72
07-30-2006, 03:54 PM
Mr. "Five and Dive" did it again.

Two out of three against the Orioles doesn't cut it when you're in the same division as the Tigers and the Yankees are strengthening their team at the deadline. Don't count out the Twins yet either.

Sox are in trouble and need to sweep the Royals.

In the meantime, I hope KW can pull a rabbit out of his hat to spark this team in the next 24 hours (or less).

SoxFanPrope
07-30-2006, 03:54 PM
Yeah that decision to hit tejada was awful. Relax. Stuff happens.
I'm talking about starting Mack, infielders playing up in the bottom of 9. Stuff like that.

BeviBall!
07-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Postgame pleading for another bullpen trade. If you can get Gonzalez... do it. Otherwise, this will still prove to be an extremely powerful pen. Just overworked in the heat thanks to a flu virus and a Vazquez virus.

Jurr
07-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Now, it's time to vacate this thread, because the lunacy that's going to be spewed forth will quiver even the strongest of stomachs. So, as a bit of foreshadowing:

1. Jenks sucks. Use Thornton as the closer
2. Ozzie doesn't know what he's doing.
3. We're not going to the playoffs because our pitching sucks.
4. This loss is going to turn the Sox south again.
5. Where's my .38? I can't take it anymore!

kwolf68
07-30-2006, 03:55 PM
This was the worse of all series wins, because we won IN SPITE of garbage pitching. In other words, the flaws that will prevent us from going to the post-season are still there. So what we won 2 out of 3 against Bruce Chen, Todd Williams and the AA pitcher. I expect to score 26 runs in a series facing cream cheese like that.

Of course, we were MAYBE building up some momentum, but the Vazquez game does us in again. We simply won't get on any real winning streaks because this guy will find a way to blow it. Jenks gets a pass, because he's usually money...thing is, today was a day we should have not had to use him, but our starters are so bad this year we are now over-using the pen.

It's amazing a group of pitchers can be so awesome and win it all and the very next year either look like they've lost it totally (Buehrle), are just old and out of gas (Garcia), or simply aren't any good (Vazquez).

Unless we get better pitching this team will be out of the race by early September.

CLR01
07-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Leyland hanging Bonderman out badly in the 8th of this twins tigers game. He just balked in the tying run.


Go start a thread in the talking baseball forum.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Mr. "Five and Dive" did it again.

Two out of three against the Orioles doesn't cut it when you're in the same division as the Tigers and the Yankees are strengthening their team at the deadline. Don't count out the Twins yet either.

Sox are in trouble and need to sweep the Royals.

In the meantime, I hope KW can pull a rabbit out of his hat to spark this team in the next 24 hours (or less).

They just need to win the series, quit inventing "must sweep" series. Just win the series.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-30-2006, 03:57 PM
Mr. "Five and Dive" did it again.



Great line.

Jerko
07-30-2006, 03:58 PM
Even if that game stays tied, the bullpen was dead. I don't know if they would have pulled it out anyway.

Deuce
07-30-2006, 03:58 PM
Someone tell Ozzie that he doesn't need to wait till Javy is in a deep hole before he pulls him. The homer was more than enough to show that the sixth got to him... AGAIN. Heck, even if it was a fluke, why keep him in after he hits Patterson?!? Damn, that was just idiotic!!!

:ozzie

"But 'eye had a gut feelin'."

I have a feeling in my gut too, Ozzie. Unfortunately, I am all out of antacids.

Deuce

Dan H
07-30-2006, 03:59 PM
Tough loss especially after that eighth inning bomb by Dye. They said it was 420 feet but it looked a lot further than that to me.

I didn't get a chance to see what happened to Jenks, but I'm not going to rip him for a blown save and loss. It happens to the best of them.

Enough of Vazquez already. I don't care how green McCarthy is, he can do as bad as this. Every fifth game is becoming a guaranteed loss. I know we are not supposed to not expect much from a #5, but this is ridiculous.

I'm not happy with 2 of 3. Not when they had leads in this game. I want to see a sweep in KC, but the Sox will have to earn it. They need to execute on all levels and they are still not doing it. Detroit looks unbeatable.

buehrle4cy05
07-30-2006, 03:59 PM
Now, it's time to vacate this thread, because the lunacy that's going to be spewed forth will quiver even the strongest of stomachs. So, as a bit of foreshadowing:

1. Jenks sucks. Use Thornton as the closer
2. Ozzie doesn't know what he's doing.
3. We're not going to the playoffs because our pitching sucks.
4. This loss is going to turn the Sox south again.
5. Where's my .38? I can't take it anymore!

I would say at least 4/5 of those points posters will not put in teal...:rolleyes:

CYGarland20
07-30-2006, 03:59 PM
Can someone explain to me why you bring the infield in with a painfully slow runner at the plate with one out??

If Iguchi is at double-play depth, the inning is over, and this game is still being played.

I seriously have to question Ozzie on this decision.I have to question Oz's managing all day. And that was an incredibly stupid move with a force out at home and a slow runner at the plate. I'm dumbfounded

viagracat
07-30-2006, 04:00 PM
Be nice to see JC go eight or more tomorrow. The 'pen is tired.

ShoelessJoeS
07-30-2006, 04:01 PM
Someone tell Ozzie that he doesn't need to wait till Javy is in a deep hole before he pulls him. The homer was more than enough to show that the sixth got to him... AGAIN. Heck, even if it was a fluke, why keep him in after he hits Patterson?!? Damn, that was just idiotic!!!

:ozzie

"But 'eye had a gut feelin'."

I have a feeling in my gut too, Ozzie. Unfortunately, I am all out of antacids.

DeuceAnd I loved sending Cotts out in the 7th, and playing the infield in with bases juiced in the 9th...

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-30-2006, 04:01 PM
Pen got taxed, Sox got toasted. Win series, move to KC. Tomorrow is another day.

rowand33
07-30-2006, 04:01 PM
the pen will be fine.

Vazquez will not, McCarthy should start. he can't be worse.

Ozzie really needs to stop starting Mack in centerfield once a series.

we can still take 5/6 with a sweep of the Royals. let's get it done to have some momentum going into toronto.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-30-2006, 04:02 PM
What was Ozzie thinking to start the game? They have a lefty with 7 ERA and we help him out by starting four lefties!!! (none by the name of Thome)

With a tired pen, Riske should have pitched two innings. Ozzie said before the game that Riske was rested and could pitch two innings if Vasquez got in trouble. But he first brought in Cotts, then Riske, who was effective. Using Riske two innings would have gotten us to the ninth without having used Thornton.

Bad game for the pitching staff.

EdHerman12
07-30-2006, 04:03 PM
Well....sometimes ya gotta go through hell before you get to Heaven. The only thing I don't understand is why...why Ozzie will bring Cotts in and he'll blow the first two guys away and then Oz will yank him out....BUT when he comes in and gets hit he leaves him in....I think Cotts has more grey matter problems than any of the staff. Javy....oh man what is with this guy?

Well, could've picked up a game on the Tigers, but if that game stays as it is the Twinkies will gain on us.

Let's hope the boys can go to KC and get the job done.

Keep the faith!

GO SOX!

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 04:04 PM
What was Ozzie thinking to start the game? They have a lefty with 7 ERA and we help him out by starting four lefties!!! (none by the name of Thome)

With a tired pen, Riske should have pitched two innings. Ozzie said before the game that Riske was rested and could pitch two innings if Vasquez got in trouble. But he first brought in Cotts, then Riske, who was effective. Using Riske two innings would have gotten us to the ninth without having used Thornton.

Bad game for the pitching staff.

The lefties combined for half of our 12 hits.

ShoelessJoeS
07-30-2006, 04:07 PM
The lefties combined for half of our 12 hits.Minus AJ, that's only 3 hits b/t Pods, Mack, and Ross.

whitesoxfan
07-30-2006, 04:08 PM
Bottom line, we need to sweep KC.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2006, 04:10 PM
Tough tough loss. Sweep was right there, two outs away...and the bullpen pissed it away.

Was it just me or did it seem every key situation this entire weekend Tejada was standing in the batters box?

The thread title was right, bad taste left leaving Baltimore.

Lip

wassagstdu
07-30-2006, 04:11 PM
3 in-a-row for Bobby in 95+ heat, plus he's been ordinary since the break (ERA nearing 4), but he's still the man. Bounce back in KC.

He seems to have lost a few mph off his fastball lately and hasn't been able to get the breaking ball over, which makes him very hittable. Rather than overwork lately maybe it was the lack of save opportunities for a couple of weeks before that that left him rusty.

.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 04:12 PM
Tough tough loss. Sweep was right there, two outs away...and the bullpen pissed it away.

Was it just me or did it seem every key situation this entire weekend Tejada was standing in the batters box?

The thread title was right, bad taste left leaving Baltimore.

Lip

Not a bad taste at all. a nice series win on the road. Now on to KC and do the same. Jenks hit tejada, and a ball wasnt hit hard until the last one.

wassagstdu
07-30-2006, 04:13 PM
Was it just me or did it seem every key situation this entire weekend Tejada was standing in the batters box?

Tejada has killed the Sox for years -- like Thome with the Indians. Hey, there's and idea . . .

.

TomParrish79
07-30-2006, 04:13 PM
ehh we won the series...i guess thats all that matters...i am just gonna have to stop stressing so much and just enjoy the rest of the season

goon
07-30-2006, 04:13 PM
He seems to have lost a few mph off his fastball lately and hasn't been able to get the breaking ball over, which makes him very hittable. Rather than overwork lately maybe it was the lack of save opportunities for a couple of weeks before that that left him rusty.

.

his fastball was hitting 99 mph yesterday on the "comcast gun". i know this unreliable, but it's really the only meter we have to judge how hard he is throwing... his velocity seems fine.

goon
07-30-2006, 04:16 PM
well, time for detroit to crap their pants for about 15-20 games. balking in the tying run sure as hell seems like a great place for a losing skid to take place.

soft fly balls and dribblers win ball games!

Blueprint1
07-30-2006, 04:18 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.

WHAT!!!! your kidding right?

MarySwiss
07-30-2006, 04:20 PM
Now, it's time to vacate this thread, because the lunacy that's going to be spewed forth will quiver even the strongest of stomachs. So, as a bit of foreshadowing:

1. Jenks sucks. Use Thornton as the closer
2. Ozzie doesn't know what he's doing.
3. We're not going to the playoffs because our pitching sucks.
4. This loss is going to turn the Sox south again.
5. Where's my .38? I can't take it anymore!

Well, let's hope some (most?) of the naysaying lunatics read this and say to themselves, "Hey...".

CaptainBallz
07-30-2006, 04:20 PM
Well, good to take the series. Hurts to lose this one in that way.

Let's hope the slump is officially over, though it's obvious the bullpen is going to try and keep it alive.

They have to bring it in KC.

kwolf68
07-30-2006, 04:20 PM
a nice series win on the road.

There was NOTHING NICE about this series win, other than we won the series.

It was a series against a bad baseball team with terrible pitching to include a AA pitcher clearly not ready and another guy who was almost cut two weeks ago....a series where our own pitching absolutely stunk up the joint in every way, shape, and form.

Only Thornton looks like he has a clue at this point. No, this series win wasn't nice...it was a major red flag that if things dont change quickly we will fall out of this thing, because not every series will we have a chance to face off with a AA pitcher and an 0-7 pitcher. Of course, we did enough damage off those guys, but our own pitching was so abysmal we let this last game get away.

We won because of inferior competition and non-credible pitching. We won't get that very often. Our pitching sucks.

kitekrazy
07-30-2006, 04:21 PM
3 in-a-row for Bobby in 95+ heat, plus he's been ordinary since the break (ERA nearing 4), but he's still the man. Bounce back in KC.

Everyone has been ordinary since the break. Maybe no more All Star breaks for the Sox. Set up some games in Japan or something.

whitesoxfan
07-30-2006, 04:22 PM
Tejada has killed the Sox for years -- like Thome with the Indians. Hey, there's and idea . . .

.

Tejada kills every team, not just the Sox.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 04:22 PM
There was NOTHING NICE about this series win, other than we won the series.

It was a series against a bad baseball team with terrible pitching to include a AA pitcher clearly not ready and another guy who was almost cut two weeks ago....a series where our own pitching absolutely stunk up the joint in every way, shape, and form.

Only Thornton looks like he has a clue at this point. No, this series win wasn't nice...it was a major red flag that if things dont change quickly we will fall out of this thing, because not every series will we have a chance to face off with a AA pitcher and an 0-7 pitcher. Of course, we did enough damage off those guys, but our own pitching was so abysmal we let this last game get away.

We won because of inferior competition and non-credible pitching. We won't get that very often. Our pitching sucks.


Any series win on the road is nice. You don't get extra wins for shutouts. It's a nice 2 of 3 series win. Now go on to KC and win that series.

whitesoxfan
07-30-2006, 04:23 PM
Any series win on the road is nice. You don't get extra wins for shutouts. It's a nice 2 of 3 series win. Now go on to KC and win that series.

We have to sweep KC. Detroit has only lost once all season to the Royals. If we expect to catch the Tiggers, we have to sweep KC and win every single game against the Royals for the rest of the year.

digdagdug23
07-30-2006, 04:25 PM
There was NOTHING NICE about this series win, other than we won the series.

It was a series against a bad baseball team with terrible pitching to include a AA pitcher clearly not ready and another guy who was almost cut two weeks ago....a series where our own pitching absolutely stunk up the joint in every way, shape, and form.

Only Thornton looks like he has a clue at this point. No, this series win wasn't nice...it was a major red flag that if things dont change quickly we will fall out of this thing, because not every series will we have a chance to face off with a AA pitcher and an 0-7 pitcher. Of course, we did enough damage off those guys, but our own pitching was so abysmal we let this last game get away.

We won because of inferior competition and non-credible pitching. We won't get that very often. Our pitching sucks.

:wired:

Man oh man, I knew I shoulda listened to Jurr, it is insanity such as this that will cause me to finally lose it.

Series win is a series win, they are not all pretty, and they are not all perfect. Take it for what it's worth, and move along little doggies, head this wagon train to KC. Go west young men.

Bill Naharodny
07-30-2006, 04:25 PM
Everyone has been ordinary since the break. Maybe no more All Star breaks for the Sox. Set up some games in Japan or something.

Or a home and home with the Schaumburg Flyers.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 04:26 PM
We have to sweep KC. Detroit has only lost once all season to the Royals. If we expect to catch the Tiggers, we have to sweep KC and win every single game against the Royals for the rest of the year.

As far as catching Detroit, it's as much about them slumping as how we do against KC. Sure you want to sweep every series, but winning each series is paramount.

kitekrazy
07-30-2006, 04:26 PM
Someone tell Ozzie that he doesn't need to wait till Javy is in a deep hole before he pulls him. The homer was more than enough to show that the sixth got to him... AGAIN. Heck, even if it was a fluke, why keep him in after he hits Patterson?!? Damn, that was just idiotic!!!

:ozzie

"But 'eye had a gut feelin'."

I have a feeling in my gut too, Ozzie. Unfortunately, I am all out of antacids.

Deuce

It's a catch 22. Starter can't go more than 5, bullpen tired.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2006, 04:32 PM
I will say this, the Orioles had a Triple A lineup out there today and ineffective, journeyman pitchers...yet they still won.

That hurts big time.

Lip

MadetoOrta
07-30-2006, 04:33 PM
Quit talking about Detroit and start talking about getting this train back on track. The train wreck is over [I hope]. If we win series after series, get our pitching somewhat on par again, catching Detroit will take care of itself - IN THE ALCS!

beckett21
07-30-2006, 04:35 PM
Any series win on the road is nice. You don't get extra wins for shutouts. It's a nice 2 of 3 series win. Now go on to KC and win that series.

Agreed. There are no style points, just W's and L's.

That said, coming off a prolonged slump I think we all start to get greedy. The sweep was within reach, which makes today's loss all the more frustrating.

Hopefully KC will provide the cure.

BanditJimmy
07-30-2006, 04:37 PM
There was NOTHING NICE about this series win, other than we won the series.

It was a series against a bad baseball team with terrible pitching to include a AA pitcher clearly not ready and another guy who was almost cut two weeks ago....a series where our own pitching absolutely stunk up the joint in every way, shape, and form.

Only Thornton looks like he has a clue at this point. No, this series win wasn't nice...it was a major red flag that if things dont change quickly we will fall out of this thing, because not every series will we have a chance to face off with a AA pitcher and an 0-7 pitcher. Of course, we did enough damage off those guys, but our own pitching was so abysmal we let this last game get away.

We won because of inferior competition and non-credible pitching. We won't get that very often. Our pitching sucks.



Amen to that !!!

Now if out pitching stinks it up in KC and we can't sweep that series ... get ready to grab our ankles come the Toronto Series. Those guys over there can mash the ball as good as we can.


Bottom line, our pitching has 2 months to turn this season around and show us we can compete come October. It's un-real that despite how bad these guys have pitched, our offense has us only a 1/2 game out of the Wild Card. I'm not one who likes to assume that the pitching will eventually get there, but if it does, then look out.


and 2 of 3 from Baltimore is nothing to be excited about folks. We faced one good pitcher this entire series in Bedard, and we barely scratched 2 runs on him.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-30-2006, 04:37 PM
ehh we won the series...i guess thats all that matters...i am just gonna have to stop stressing so much and just enjoy the rest of the season

Good attitude, think I'll try to adopt it.

Pierzynski 12
07-30-2006, 04:39 PM
Bad Bobby Jenks was indeed "bad"

beckett21
07-30-2006, 04:42 PM
Bad Bobby Jenks was indeed "bad"
My only complaint with Jenks today is his timing.

After all, that was just his 2nd blown save of the season IIRC. If the Sox were on a roll, it would be a lot easier to shrug off.

Cotts has been terrible lately. If there must be a scapegoat, I hang this one on him, personally.

brewcrew/chisox
07-30-2006, 04:43 PM
Thornton for closer. It's not because of this game, it's just because he is obviously the best reliever on the team. Every time Thornton comes in it's a quick inning.


Post of the week

WSox597
07-30-2006, 04:46 PM
Cotts has been terrible lately. I hang this one on him, personally.


The first part no question, but the second part of your statement I differ with. Mr Javy "I know more than the pitching coach" Vazquez gets the blame in my opinion. Those were his runs that scored, and of course Cotts couldn't hold them.

Let Vazquez go to which ever team is dumb enough to want him and cut our losses. How bad can McCarthy be as the fifth starter?

The way Vazquez and Cotts are pitching, even Hendry wouldn't take them.

:D:

BanditJimmy
07-30-2006, 04:47 PM
The goal this season was not to win a Division Title (let alone a Wild Card berth) nor to win the AL Pennant. The goal was to re-peat as World Champs. After this series with Baltimore and after this bad stretch since the All Star Break, how many of you guys still feel confident that this 2006 White Sox team can win us another World Series? Please be honest and explain what makes you believe or not believe.


Again, the goal here is to win the World Series.

beckett21
07-30-2006, 04:50 PM
The first part no question, but the second part of your statement I differ with. Mr Javy "I know more than the pitching coach" Vazquez gets the blame in my opinion. Those were his runs that scored, and of course Cotts couldn't hold them.

Let Vazquez go to which ever team is dumb enough to want him and cut our losses. How bad can McCarthy be as the fifth starter?

The way Vazquez and Cotts are pitching, even Hendry wouldn't take them.

:D:

Vazquez deserves a good portion of the blame as well. He shoudn't get a free pass either.

It would be nice to see Cotts strand an inherited runner or two every once in awhile, though. If Cotts gets a DP ball, Vazquez is off the hook and in position for the W. That is what the bullpen guys get paid for.

DannyCaterFan
07-30-2006, 04:55 PM
In case nobody noticed , the Royals have been playing much better ball of late and scoring alot of runs. The White Sox will be lucky if they can get 2 out of 3 games there.

MarySwiss
07-30-2006, 04:56 PM
The goal this season was not to win a Division Title (let alone a Wild Card berth) nor to win the AL Pennant. The goal was to re-peat as World Champs. After this series with Baltimore and after this bad stretch since the All Star Break, how many of you guys still feel confident that this 2006 White Sox team can win us another World Series? Please be honest and explain what makes you believe or not believe. Again, the goal here is to win the World Series.

Sure, I'll play.

1) I still feel confident that the Sox will win the division. Detroit has been playing their starters relentlessly; in the course of a season, that will take its toll.
2) Even if they don't win the division, they have a leg up on the wild card. Boston and Cleveland will continue to beat each others' brains (?) in, and I'm thinking they will both come up losers at the end. I've been picking the Blue Jays to win the AL East. And I still think they will.
3) No matter how the Sox get to the playoffs, they will be the most talented team in it. It would be nice to have home field, but please remember the Sox won ALL THREE playoff series last year in the opponents' park.

So, Sox over Jays in the ALCS and Sox over--well, who cares?--in the WS.

Madvora
07-30-2006, 05:02 PM
It really upsets me knowing (or thinking) that they is no one coming to the rescue for this team. KW made his "we'll be fine" statement like 3 or 4 days ago.
The thing is that I can't think of one or two players that actually could come in and pull this dispicable lifeless body off the floor and get it winning again.

They should be able to win with the talent they have, but a little part of me still wants some sort of change because I can't bear to watch this same crap anymore.

whitesoxfan
07-30-2006, 05:06 PM
In case nobody noticed , the Royals have been playing much better ball of late and scoring alot of runs. The White Sox will be lucky if they can get 2 out of 3 games there.

With Contreras (who has completely owned KC with a 6-0 record and an ERA under 2) on the mound for game 1 against Hernandez, I feel real confident about tomorrow's game. I also believe this is the series where Buehrle will turn it around as well..he can't continue to be as bad as he has been, right? We will take the series at minimum.

BanditJimmy
07-30-2006, 05:20 PM
It really upsets me knowing (or thinking) that they're no one coming to the rescue for this team. KW made his "we'll be fine" statement like 3 or 4 days ago.
The thing is that I can't think of one or two players that actually could come in and pull this dispicable lifeless body off the floor and get it winning again.

They should be able to win with the talent they have, but a little part of me still wants some sort of change because I can't bear to watch this same crap anymore.

I agree. When things aren't going good as it has been this 2nd half, we want to see change. I think Kenny has seeked all options out there and really there is nothing out there that improves our ball club. Our guys just need to start playing better.

The only two starters that perhaps are out there that would make a difference to what we currently have are Schmidt and Zito. Those team are looking to take us to the cleaners in order for us to acquire them.


Offensively, only one guy out there gets me excited. Carl Crawford of TB.

Brian26
07-30-2006, 05:21 PM
Not a bad taste at all. a nice series win on the road. Now on to KC and do the same.

I hope the Sox are not satisfied with this though.

These teams flat-out stink, and we should be racking up win after win. Detroit and Minnesota will go into Baltimore and KC and most likely win 2 of 3 also, so you're not gaining any ground on either team. Same thing goes for the Yankees and the Red Sox. Winning every series at this point puts us as .667 ball, while Detroit and Minnesota are playing .700 ball.

Complaining about it doesn't make it any better, but I hope they can go into KC and really do well - winning 3 straight.

Brian26
07-30-2006, 05:24 PM
Agreed. There are no style points, just W's and L's.

That said, coming off a prolonged slump I think we all start to get greedy. The sweep was within reach, which makes today's loss all the more frustrating.

Hopefully KC will provide the cure.

It's obvious this thing is going to do down to the wire for the wild card, so you have to win every game possible. There's no satisfaction in winning two of three from a crap Baltimore team. These are the teams Detroit has swept all year, and we need to do the same. These guys have to turn that frustration into desire and go into KC and dominate. No setbacks at this point...

beckett21
07-30-2006, 05:33 PM
It's obvious this thing is going to do down to the wire for the wild card, so you have to win every game possible. There's no satisfaction in winning two of three from a crap Baltimore team. These are the teams Detroit has swept all year, and we need to do the same. These guys have to turn that frustration into desire and go into KC and dominate. No setbacks at this point...

The Sox have left themselves no room for error. Agree there.

I'm certainly not satisfied with 2 of 3, but considering how they struggled in the two they won they were lucky to get that. At least it's a step in the right direction.

They should have had the sweep though. No excuse for today's loss besides poor performance.

FarWestChicago
07-30-2006, 05:42 PM
I will say this, the Orioles had a Triple A lineup out there today and ineffective, journeyman pitchers...yet they still won.

That hurts big time.

LipAt least you are happy and having fun, Lip! :thumbsup:

:darkclouds:

MrX
07-30-2006, 05:55 PM
Bad Bobby Jenks was indeed "bad"
Part of that is on the starters for sucking it up and forcing Ozzie to go to the bullpen.

Look at the innings this weekend
Garcia - 6
Garland - 5
Vazquez - 5&1/3

Thornton would have closed if they wouldn't have had to bring him an inning earlier.

russ99
07-30-2006, 06:02 PM
Part of that is on the starters for sucking it up and forcing Ozzie to go to the bullpen.

Look at the innings this weekend
Garcia - 6
Garland - 5
Vazquez - 5&1/3

Thornton would have closed if they wouldn't have had to bring him an inning earlier.

Enough with the doubt about Jenks. Even though the hammer wasn't working today, he made some good pitches and essentially got beat by the HBP.

We're fortunate to take 2 out of 3, considering how Sox pitchers kept getting in trouble all the time.

MrX
07-30-2006, 06:19 PM
Enough with the doubt about Jenks. Even though the hammer wasn't working today, he made some good pitches and essentially got beat by the HBP.

We're fortunate to take 2 out of 3, considering how Sox pitchers kept getting in trouble all the time.
Where did I doubt Jenks? After his performance yesterday Ozzie doesn't bring him in again if he has options. 3 days in row is hard on a lot a lot of pitchers, especially one that depends on his fastball like Bobby does.

thomas35forever
07-30-2006, 06:28 PM
Well, we blew this one. Bobby was due for a blown save anyway.

edit: Where did Tatis come from anyway? I can't remember when I last heard from him.

MarySwiss
07-30-2006, 06:32 PM
I agree. When things aren't going good as it has been this 2nd half, we want to see change. I think Kenny has seeked all options out there and really there is nothing out there that improves our ball club. Our guys just need to start playing better.

The only two starters that perhaps are out there that would make a difference to what we currently have are Schmidt and Zito. Those team are looking to take us to the cleaners in order for us to acquire them.


Offensively, only one guy out there gets me excited. Carl Crawford of TB.

Nope, not gonna say it. :rolleyes:

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 06:32 PM
The goal this season was not to win a Division Title (let alone a Wild Card berth) nor to win the AL Pennant. The goal was to re-peat as World Champs. After this series with Baltimore and after this bad stretch since the All Star Break, how many of you guys still feel confident that this 2006 White Sox team can win us another World Series? Please be honest and explain what makes you believe or not believe.


Again, the goal here is to win the World Series.

Every teams goal is to win the World Series.

Law11
07-30-2006, 06:41 PM
hours after this choke fest and I'm still ticked off.
Someone please tell us again how were going to rattle of 8 or 9 straight and get back in this... I'm all out of Kool-aid.

At least it was fun to watch Detroit Implode for once this year.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 06:58 PM
hours after this choke fest and I'm still ticked off.
Someone please tell us again how were going to rattle of 8 or 9 straight and get back in this... I'm all out of Kool-aid.

At least it was fun to watch Detroit Implode for once this year.

It doesnt take one long streak to get back in, it takes winning series, like the sox did this weekend. As far as the division goes, winning that will take a lot of help from other teams that play Detroit.

nedlug
07-30-2006, 06:59 PM
Every teams goal is to win the World Series.

"Yeah... that's the ticket... the world series is our goal!"

goon
07-30-2006, 07:02 PM
i seriously doubt there will be any trades made, so we should all probably just stop talking about it. the fact is, and it has been stated over and over again, the white sox have the talent and guys in place to make a run, the rotation and bullpen just need to start living up to everyone's expectation and their ability. the offense and defense for the most part are fine...

Lip Man 1
07-30-2006, 07:12 PM
I don't know how this compares and if it's good or bad but this was in Mark Gonzales' recap of the game:

"Cotts has allowed 14 of 47 inherited runners to score this season."

Bandit:

I disagree. It is very, very, very hard to get back to a World Series let alone win consecutive ones. I personally thought that was an unrealistic goal heading into the season. As stated before if the Sox were to win 93 games or so, regardless of if they got back to the post-season, that's a pretty damn good year.

That being said, with the talent on this club there is absolutely no reason (barring injuries) why getting to the post season wasn't realistic.

They still have a very good chance as the wild card but it's now a dogfight.

Lip

KyWhiSoxFan
07-30-2006, 07:47 PM
I don't know how this compares and if it's good or bad but this was in Mark Gonzales' recap of the game:

"Cotts has allowed 14 of 47 inherited runners to score this season."


I wonder what McCarthy's stats on inherited runnres scoring. He seems to allow a lot. He just never seems comfortable coming out of the bullpen, particularly in the middle of an inning when he's out of the stretch. That's why I wish he were a starter from day one this year.

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2006, 08:34 PM
I don't know how this compares and if it's good or bad but this was in Mark Gonzales' recap of the game:

"Cotts has allowed 14 of 47 inherited runners to score this season."

That's all? :mg:

Why does it seem like he's allowed more than 29.78% of inherited runners to score?

Maybe because Cliff Politte, Boone Logan and Jeff Nelson were even worse, and drew our attention away from Cotts' own terrible-ness.
:rolleyes:

alohafri
07-30-2006, 09:00 PM
One would hope that 7 runs should be enough with our pitching staff. Anyhow, let's start winning series after series again. That would've been nice.

You must be watching tapes of last year! Our staff is horrible right now.

Jjav829
07-30-2006, 09:52 PM
Can someone explain to me why you bring the infield in with a painfully slow runner at the plate with one out??

If Iguchi is at double-play depth, the inning is over, and this game is still being played.

I seriously have to question Ozzie on this decision.

Here's why you bring the infield in. Patterson, the fastest player on the Orioles, is on 1st. If you play the infield at double play range, you have one chance to get out of the inning. You need a ball hit hard to an infielder where they can turn the double play without giving Patterson time to break up the DP. Anything hit softly means the game is over.

If you bring the infield in, you have more opportunities to at least get the out at home. Plus, the slow batter means you could possibly still get the runner at 1st after coming home. But even if you don't, you get the out that matters. If you go for the double play, it's double play or loss.

I can't really blame Jenks. He was due for one of these.

NDSox12
07-30-2006, 10:06 PM
Tough way to end the series, but all in all, I had a great time in Baltimore this weekend and am not too disappointed. Good showing from the Sox fans all weekend. 97 degree heat won't keep us away!

I'm definitely not blaming today's game on Jenks. Not only was he overdue for a blown save, but its not like the Orioles were hitting shots all over the park. The HBP was the real killer, especially since he had two strikes on Tejada. If the HBP didn't happen, I think that inning would have played out much differently.

I'm much more concerned about Cotts. He is getting hit hard by both left and right handed hitters. Hopefully there will be some opportunities to get him into some lopsided games (in the Sox favor, of course) to get him back on track. Otherwise, Thornton needs to get the call whenever a tough lefty comes up.

Let's take care of business in Kansas City!

JB98
07-30-2006, 10:28 PM
On the first page of this thread, we have somebody calling for Jenks removal as closer. LOL. This is Bobby's first blown save since the first weekend in May! Isn't the man allowed to have a bad game? He's earned plenty of leeway with me.

Really, I think this loss goes back to the struggles in middle relief yesterday. We scored 13 freakin' runs, but we had to use MacDougal, Thornton AND Jenks to secure that win. Absolutely ridiculous. Those are games McCarthy and Cotts need to lock up. Today, Jenks was pitching for the third straight game, and his stuff just wasn't as sharp as it normally is. Those are the breaks.

Our bullpen is really in dire straits for tomorrow. Cotts, Thornton and Jenks each worked all three games in Baltimore. We need seven strong innings from Contreras in the worst way. If we have a save situation tomorrow, in MacDougal we trust. I'll be at Kauffman Stadium each of the next two days. Go Sox!

Frankfan4life
07-30-2006, 10:56 PM
Ouch, that hurt!

Grzegorz
07-31-2006, 05:29 AM
Really, I think this loss goes back to the struggles in middle relief yesterday. We scored 13 freakin' runs, but we had to use MacDougal, Thornton AND Jenks to secure that win. Absolutely ridiculous. Those are games McCarthy and Cotts need to lock up.

I agree with your point. I see this series as being important because the White Sox need to win the series at the very least. My biggest concern is that it will be very hot for this series. The starters need to take the pressure off the pen.

Contreras and Buehrle have to pitch well and go deep into the game.

Lets go White Sox!

Deuce
07-31-2006, 06:15 AM
That's all? :mg:

Why does it seem like he's allowed more than 29.78% of inherited runners to score?Two reasons: One, because Cotts is constantly being put in that situation. Two, because until recently, Cotts traditionally only saw a single batter per appearance. So, as long as he didn't score him, his stats improved. However, that doesn't necessarily mean he did well against the batter he was facing. Just that in between when he came in and out, he didn't score the runner let on. So, that could explain why the stat is so low, but the bad taste one gets when he comes up to pitch with runners on is so high.

Still, a lot of the crticism Cotts is getting is really misplaced. Putting Cotts in to start an inning out iwould be nice. Heck, putting him in to get the last out is wholey reasonable. However, it seems that he is being used primarily in situations where there are runners in scoring position and one or no outs. That is not an easy situation to walk into, or out of without giving something up.

Lets be honest, Cotts could have started the sixth inning. He should have been in after the homer was given up. There was no question in anyone's mind (except Ozzie's) that he should have taken the mound after Patterson was HbP. But does that happen? No. Instead, Javy digs a huge hole and Ozzie hands it over to Cotts. And given that Cotts isn't "lights out" like he was last year, its not surprising he gave up those runs in the prcess of closing out the inning.

Deuce

jenn2080
07-31-2006, 07:19 AM
The Vazquez Cotts combo is frightening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

viagracat
07-31-2006, 08:42 AM
Sox are in trouble and need to sweep the Royals.



I always cringe when I read somebody stating something like that.

It would certainly be nice if the Sox do sweep the Royals and that indeed might happen, but what's going to happen if they don't? Are you going to write off the season? Just go ahead and give Minnesota, Detroit and the Yankees playoff spots? Set tee times for Friday?

Sweeping any team on the road is tough, and the consequences of not doing so are not dire in late July/early August. Especially since we are still in the thick of a pennant race.

Yes, the Sox will be going nowhere in October except home if they don't step it up, but no, they don't need to sweep KC this week to keep the hope alive.

Just play ball.

DickAllen72
07-31-2006, 04:13 PM
I always cringe when I read somebody stating something like that.

It would certainly be nice if the Sox do sweep the Royals and that indeed might happen, but what's going to happen if they don't? Are you going to write off the season? Just go ahead and give Minnesota, Detroit and the Yankees playoff spots? Set tee times for Friday?

Sweeping any team on the road is tough, and the consequences of not doing so are not dire in late July/early August. Especially since we are still in the thick of a pennant race.

Yes, the Sox will be going nowhere in October except home if they don't step it up, but no, they don't need to sweep KC this week to keep the hope alive.

Just play ball.

I got this from another message board:

At this point of the season last year the whitesox were 67-35 (.657) and on pace for 106 wins. for the rest of the season they only went 32-28 (.533)

This season the Tigers are 70-34 (.673) if they encounter a similar slump for the rest of the season and play .533 ball the rest of the way they go 31-27 and finish up 101-61

for the sox to catch up to that mark they have to go 40-19 (.677) the rest of the season

As you can see, simply winning two out of three is probably not going to cut it. The Sox need to sweep some series, and this one against KC should be one of those.

viagracat
07-31-2006, 04:51 PM
I got this from another message board:

At this point of the season last year the whitesox were 67-35 (.657) and on pace for 106 wins. for the rest of the season they only went 32-28 (.533)

This season the Tigers are 70-34 (.673) if they encounter a similar slump for the rest of the season and play .533 ball the rest of the way they go 31-27 and finish up 101-61

for the sox to catch up to that mark they have to go 40-19 (.677) the rest of the season

As you can see, simply winning two out of three is probably not going to cut it. The Sox need to sweep some series, and this one against KC should be one of those.

I said in another thread that although I'm not giving Detroit the division title yet, it's clear they're the favorite to do so and IMO, our real competitors right now are other Wild Card contenders like the Twins, Yankees/Boston and Toronto. There will be no shame in getting the WC in the AL this year. As long as we're in the playoffs, I'm not going to be picky as to how we get there. I'd prefer a division championship, of course, but if it's the WC...OK. Don't think anyone will turn it down on principle, you know what I'm sayin? :cool:

Jurr
07-31-2006, 05:14 PM
The Sox have left themselves no room for error. Agree there.

I'm certainly not satisfied with 2 of 3, but considering how they struggled in the two they won they were lucky to get that. At least it's a step in the right direction.

They should have had the sweep though. No excuse for today's loss besides poor performance.
Rightly said, my friend.

A slump breaking expedition usually starts out slow. I wasn't happy that the little bit of momentum that they were building took a slight slap in the face yesterday, but the overall effect was desirable.

The Sox won two of three. Hopefully, they get that winning taste back in their mouth, run off a bunch of series wins, and then get the "8 wins in a row" bug back.