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View Full Version : John Kass on Dave Dombrowski


SouthSide_HitMen
07-30-2006, 01:47 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0607260107jul26,1,5695823.column?page=2&coll=chi-news-col

That's how he met then-Sox GM Roland Hemond and was later given a job with the White Sox.

Dombrowski learned under Hemond through the late 1970s and early 1980s, but he was purged from the Sox when Hawk Harrelson briefly took over the team. :angry:

Lip Man 1
07-30-2006, 05:22 PM
Hawk basically gutted everyone associated with the prior management.

It's a shame.

Lip

MarySwiss
07-30-2006, 05:28 PM
Hawk basically gutted everyone associated with the prior management.

It's a shame.

Lip

Yeah. Damn. Just think what might have happened.

Lip, who cares? All of this is ancient history, plus a bunch of wouda, coulda, shoulda.

Bottom line: We may have won the World Series sooner. Or we may not have.

Again, who cares about what might have happened? I like what did happen.

QCIASOXFAN
07-30-2006, 05:29 PM
I have a few questions that I am not sure about. Why did Hawk ever get a GM job? I can see him being a coach but not the GM. Second, why was his tenure so brief?

MrX
07-30-2006, 07:02 PM
I can see him being a coach but not the GM. Second, why was his tenure so brief? Because he sucked.

JR still says he biggest mistake he ever made in his career was hiring Hawk to be GM.

EndemicSox
07-30-2006, 07:30 PM
I have a few questions that I am not sure about. Why did Hawk ever get a GM job? I can see him being a coach but not the GM. Second, why was his tenure so brief?

Well, he can talk, JR must have been paralyzed by the "he gone" and "stretch". Hawk makes Isiah Thomas look like Jerry West.

MarySwiss
07-30-2006, 07:37 PM
Again:

So Kass did an interview with Dombrowski. And Lip's done at least one interview with Hemond.

Interesting from a historical viewpoint, but that's all they are--history lessons. None have any bearing on what is happening right now.

monkeypants
07-30-2006, 08:08 PM
Again:So Kass did an interview with Dombrowski. And Lip's done at least one interview with Hemond.
Interesting from a historical viewpoint, but that's all they are--history lessons. None have any bearing on what is happening right now.

No this does not have any bearing on what is happening right now and nobody in this thread said anything to that effect. What this article does show is how terrible Hawk was as a GM because he threw away quality people within the organization.

Brian26
07-30-2006, 08:15 PM
Yeah. Damn. Just think what might have happened.

Lip, who cares? All of this is ancient history, plus a bunch of wouda, coulda, shoulda.

Bottom line: We may have won the World Series sooner. Or we may not have.

Again, who cares about what might have happened? I like what did happen.

My take on it is essentially the same, and I certainly hope everyone isn't fawning all over Dave Dombrowski now. His success with the '97 Marlins had more to do with Wayne Huizenga's pocketbook than anything else. There could be an argument that he helped re-build the Marlins team that eventually won the 2003 World Series (even though he left in 2001), but look at all the losing seasons he's seen with the Marlins, Tigers, and Expos. To classify this guy as a genius now is really a stretch. The jury is still out on whether or not he's caught lightning in a bottle this time in Detroit.

It is also a disservice to the GM's that followed Harrelson to say it's a shame Dombrowski left. Himes did a spectacular job setting up the Robin Ventura/Frank Thomas/Jack McDowell/Alex Fernandez run. Who knows what would have happened if the drafts hadn't gone in favor of the Sox those years. Those were great picks.

So, in summary, Maryswiss nailed it- who really cares.

Brian26
07-30-2006, 08:19 PM
What this article does show is how terrible Hawk was as a GM because he threw away quality people within the organization.

Who here, ever, has said Hawk was a great GM?

Lip Man 1
07-30-2006, 08:20 PM
Mary:

Wasn't making any comments on how this has impact right now.

Just observing that some pretty damn good baseball people were shown the door by Hawk. That may not have been a big deal had he stuck around for five years or so, but to take the job then leave after one year points out the folly of this entire move in the first place.

Regarding the question of how Hawk got the job in the first place. Perhaps this will offer some insight.

"Eddie and I would talk to Hawk and (Don) Drysdale at length, and Hawk more so, to identify problems in the organization, we were still neophytes in this business and we were impressed with the way Hawk pointed out our problems. [GM] wasn't something he really wanted him to do, but we urged him to help us out. The mistake was that when you go to a doctor who diagnoses open-heart surgery, you don't have him do the surgery because he diagnosed the problem, you get a heart surgeon. Just because Hawk was able to diagnose our problems did not mean he could solve them. It was a terrible position to put him in, and a year later, he said he wanted out." – Jerry Reinsdorf to the Chicago Tribune’s Melissa Issacson. May 28, 2004.

Lip

SouthSide_HitMen
07-30-2006, 10:50 PM
Again, who cares about what might have happened? I like what did happen....

Interesting from a historical viewpoint, but that's all they are--history lessons. None have any bearing on what is happening right now.

You liked waiting 19 years after Hawk left to win a playoff series? :?:

Nobody is saying this has anything to do with July 30, 2006. I thought it was an interesting take on the effect of a bad decisions decades ago.

My take on it is essentially the same, and I certainly hope everyone isn't fawning all over Dave Dombrowski now. His success with the '97 Marlins had more to do with Wayne Huizenga's pocketbook than anything else. There could be an argument that he helped re-build the Marlins team that eventually won the 2003 World Series (even though he left in 2001), but look at all the losing seasons he's seen with the Marlins, Tigers, and Expos. To classify this guy as a genius now is really a stretch. The jury is still out on whether or not he's caught lightning in a bottle this time in Detroit.

Dombrowski did a good job everywhere he went. Montreal had some of its best teams with the players he helped acquire. Bud and Jerry's strike put an end baseball in Montreal.

Dombrowski went to Florida and built an expansion team into two time World Series Champions (leaving the nucleus when he left after 2001). He then turned around the worst team in baseball after five seasons - the same time it took Kenny Williams to turn a .500 team to one of the best in baseball.

Dave Dombrowski has an excellent long term track record - better than most GMs in the game save for Schuerholz and possibly Jocketty.

Hawk was a disaster. Nobody could work with Larry Himes. Schueler please.

Oblong
07-30-2006, 11:19 PM
Everything I've read on Dombrowski recently makes mention of Hammond being his mentor. That's not something I knew until about a year ago. I like Dombrowski's style. He's very coy and gives vague but polite answers.

He's been a little lucky in Detroit but most organizations get lucky. BIll James said of his work in Boston when they got David Ortiz "You think he was our first choice?"

It's been a long standing rumor that Dombrowski actually got a piece of the team when he got to Detroit.

PalehosePlanet
07-31-2006, 04:58 PM
The only good move Hawk made was acquiring/stealing Ivan Calderon from Seattle for Scott Bradley, a left handed hitting catcher. A terrrible move was acquiring Mike Smithson and Wayne Tollison from The Rangers for a kid pitcher by the name of Edwin Correa. Hawk only lived this one down because Correa blew out his shoulder the following year. Too bad for the kid, he was a major + talent.

Brian26
07-31-2006, 09:22 PM
The only good move Hawk made was acquiring/stealing Ivan Calderon from Seattle for Scott Bradley, a left handed hitting catcher. A terrrible move was acquiring Mike Smithson and Wayne Tollison from The Rangers for a kid pitcher by the name of Edwin Correa. Hawk only lived this one down because Correa blew out his shoulder the following year. Too bad for the kid, he was a major + talent.

I think it was Dave Schmidt, not Mike Smithson.

PeteWard
08-01-2006, 07:32 AM
I have a few questions that I am not sure about. Why did Hawk ever get a GM job? I can see him being a coach but not the GM. Second, why was his tenure so brief?

I was wondering how he ever got the announcing job! :wink: