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Viva Medias B's
07-30-2006, 07:55 AM
The polls remain open until 12:27 p.m. today (Sunday) for the "Best Blue Jay Ever," but Joe Carter at this point has a comfortable lead. If you have not voted in the Blue Jay poll, please take the time to do so before the polls close.

Meanwhile, the Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves are today's poll.

Whitesox4ever
07-30-2006, 07:57 AM
Hank Aaron

SouthSide_HitMen
07-30-2006, 08:12 AM
Warren Spahn would be a winner on many teams but the Braves are not one of them. This should be unanimous unless someone clicks the wrong button on accident.

Vernam
07-30-2006, 09:03 AM
This one's a no-brainer, as the poll results show. But looking over the complete ballot, it's omission of Eddie Matthews struck me as the biggest error that MLB made. I don't see how Chipper Jones can be put ahead of him.

Vernam

TornLabrum
07-30-2006, 09:03 AM
1. Aaron
1a. Spahn

Paulwny
07-30-2006, 10:00 AM
It has to be Aaron

jabrch
07-30-2006, 10:25 AM
1 Aaron
2 Aaron
3 Aaron
4 Aaron
5 Aaron
6 Aaron
...
10 Spahn

This is probably the biggest no-brainer. Banks for the Cubs also is a no brainer.

The Racehorse
07-30-2006, 10:31 AM
Hank Aaron, of course...

... it'd be nice to see Eddie Mathews name mentioned... and Bob Uecker's. :D:

The Racehorse
07-30-2006, 10:33 AM
But looking over the complete ballot, it's omission of Eddie Matthews struck me as the biggest error that MLB made. I don't see how Chipper Jones can be put ahead of him.

Vernam

Yup. :thumbsup:

Save McCuddy's
07-30-2006, 10:35 AM
Smoltz due to his incredible clutch performances, domination in starting and closing roles plus the best playoff record of all time would top alot of lists. The Braves are not one of them. The process of taking this poll is in and of itself insulting to Henry Aaron.

VenturaSoxFan23
07-30-2006, 10:36 AM
Wow, all the Braves' all-time greats that haven't even been listed. Just like the Academy Awards, at least the pleasure knowing you're nominated is a plus in and of itself. (My late dad was a Braves fan when they were in Milwaukee, and seeing them on TBS helped me get in touch with the Atlanta squads.)

Some glaring admissions:

Dale Murphy.
Eddie Matthews.
Joe Adcock.
Greg Maddux. Greg Maddux isn't on the ballot. I can't believe that at all.

But, you have to go with Aaron, the man I grew up wanting to be like.

fquaye149
07-30-2006, 10:45 AM
Warren Spahn would be a winner on many teams but the Braves are not one of them. This should be unanimous unless someone clicks the wrong button on accident.

It was a very hard choice. I actually voted Spahn, not because I necessarily think that he deserves it over Aaron, but because I wanted to make sure someone did.

Warren Spahn is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, and perhaps the best lefty ever, just as Aaron is one of the greatest hitters of all time (and perhaps the greatest righty)

fquaye149
07-30-2006, 10:46 AM
BTW--John Smoltz gets a vote? Phil Niekro? That's just plain crazy

Brian26
07-30-2006, 10:49 AM
Some glaring admissions:

Dale Murphy.
Eddie Matthews.
Joe Adcock.
Greg Maddux. Greg Maddux isn't on the ballot. I can't believe that at all.



Francisco Cabrera and Sid Bream, too.

viagracat
07-30-2006, 10:53 AM
Aaron. He had to put up with a lot of crap in his day, and to put it very politely, some Babe Ruth fans didn't like him breaking the HR record. And he handled it as well as he could and is now an ambassador for the game.

Spahn was before even my time, but I know he was a feared as they came. I remember the old saying about him and his colleague Johnny Sain: "Spahn and Sain and pray for rain".

I too think Eddie Mathews should be on the list. He was as scrappy and hard-nosed a player that ever played the game. He once took on Frank Robinson, himself no shrinking violet, after Robinson took out Mathews on a play at third.

Brian26
07-30-2006, 10:57 AM
http://www.blujay.com/1/19/1413365_s1_i1.jpg
"I made Bonds cry."

http://www.grandstandsports.com/images/13989.jpg
http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5314648_36_2.jpg

http://www.thephatphree.com/_photos/bream_sid.jpg
http://art-nostalgic.com/gallery_main/gallery_sub_sections/faces/large_paintings/gallery-faces-07-braves-win.jpg

slavko
07-30-2006, 11:01 AM
Aaron. He had to put up with a lot of crap in his day, and to put it very politely, some Babe Ruth fans didn't like him breaking the HR record. And he handled it as well as he could and is now an ambassador for the game.

Spahn was before even my time, but I know he was a feared as they came. I remember the old saying about him and his colleague Johnny Sain: "Spahn and Sain and pray for rain".

I too think Eddie Mathews should be on the list. He was as scrappy and hard-nosed a player that ever played the game. He once took on Frank Robinson, himself no shrinking violet, after Robinson took out Mathews on a play at third.

The Babe was a Brave too, for a little while. Not long enough to matter. Spahn or Aaron, Aaron or Spahn? Too close to call.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-30-2006, 11:42 AM
It was a very hard choice. I actually voted Spahn, not because I necessarily think that he deserves it over Aaron, but because I wanted to make sure someone did.

Warren Spahn is one of the greatest pitchers of all time, and perhaps the best lefty ever, just as Aaron is one of the greatest hitters of all time (and perhaps the greatest righty)

Spahn is one of the all time best pitchers.

Bill James has him at #5 all time (behind Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Pete Alexander and Cy Young). He played 20 seasons with Boston / Milwaukee and missed three years serving America during World War II which bumps him up in my eyes. Seven pitchers have more career win shares (Young, Johnson, Nichols, Alexander, Matthewson, Clemens & Tim Keefe).

Hank Aaron had 21 years with Milwaukee / Atlanta. Bill has the Babe as the only RFer ahead of him and the 12 player (Spahn was ranked 36th in the 1999 edition) behind Ruth, Wagner, Mays, Charleston, Cobb, Mantle, Williams, Johnson, Josh Gibson, Musial and Speaker. Satchel Paige (17th) was the only Negro League player ahead of Spahn outside of the 4 listed above (James' Top 100 has Negro League Players included, tankings by position do not due to lack of stats).

Eddie Mathews was rated 3rd all time among 3rd basemen. He ranks second in many all time hitting categories in Braves history. He should have been part of the poll.

MDF3530
07-30-2006, 03:50 PM
I said Dale Murphy.

samram
07-30-2006, 04:43 PM
Aaron. There shouldn't be any other options.

ComiskeyBrewer
07-30-2006, 04:53 PM
Aaron. There shouldn't be any other options.

Are you Serious? Eddie Matthews was every bit as good as Hank. Eddie was the Home Run Hitter on the old Milwaukee Braves teams, not Hank. Of the list, i honestly have a 3 way tie between Spahn, Aaron, and Matthews.

fquaye149
07-30-2006, 06:49 PM
Aaron. There shouldn't be any other options.

So when the Yankees come up there shouldn't be any options but Ruth?

Or when the Red Sox come up there should only be Williams?

Or the Tigers should only have Cobb?

Or the Dodgers should only have Jackie?

Why should we cheapen the accomplishments of some of the greatest players ever to play the game (Spahn, Mantle, Dimaggio, Clemens, and so on) just because there was another great player.

Spahn and Aaron played different positions completely. Spahn was a pitcher, Aaron was a position player. They both played over 20 years for the Braves. They both could be considered among the best at what they did EVER. Bill James ranked Spahn as one of the top 5 pitchers ever and top 3 left-handed pitchers ever. Aaron is similarly shortlisted with hitters.

Why would you slight Spahn? He was an incredible baseball player.

Patrick134
07-30-2006, 06:54 PM
http://www.blujay.com/1/19/1413365_s1_i1.jpg
"I made Bonds cry."

http://www.grandstandsports.com/images/13989.jpg
http://msn.foxsports.com/id/5314648_36_2.jpg

http://www.thephatphree.com/_photos/bream_sid.jpg
http://art-nostalgic.com/gallery_main/gallery_sub_sections/faces/large_paintings/gallery-faces-07-braves-win.jpg

Does Bream always sign with a Bible quote attached ?

Grzegorz
07-30-2006, 07:23 PM
Hank Aaron
Warren Spahn
Eddie Matthews

All very close but I've gotta go with the 'Hammer'.

eastchicagosoxfan
07-30-2006, 07:44 PM
I'll go with:
Aaron
Spahn
Matthews
and my darkhorse, because he was such an unusaul charcter, but also a pretty good ballplayer:
Rabbit Maranville
He's a Hall of Famer, although the merits of his election are certainly controversial, but characters help make baseball a great game, and Maranville was one of the greatest characters there was.

samram
07-30-2006, 09:09 PM
So when the Yankees come up there shouldn't be any options but Ruth?

Or when the Red Sox come up there should only be Williams?

Or the Tigers should only have Cobb?

Or the Dodgers should only have Jackie?

Why should we cheapen the accomplishments of some of the greatest players ever to play the game (Spahn, Mantle, Dimaggio, Clemens, and so on) just because there was another great player.

Spahn and Aaron played different positions completely. Spahn was a pitcher, Aaron was a position player. They both played over 20 years for the Braves. They both could be considered among the best at what they did EVER. Bill James ranked Spahn as one of the top 5 pitchers ever and top 3 left-handed pitchers ever. Aaron is similarly shortlisted with hitters.

Why would you slight Spahn? He was an incredible baseball player.

The question is who is the greatest player for that franchise, not who are the great players who have played for that franchise. If the purpose of the thread was to highlight the great achievements of great Braves, then talking about Matthews, Spahn, etc. would be relevant, but it's not- it's to vote on the single greatest player in the history of the franchise and that distinction belongs to Aaron without question, IMO.

soxfanreggie
07-30-2006, 09:26 PM
I think Spanky is definitely what makes those pictures.

Grzegorz
07-30-2006, 09:51 PM
So when the Yankees come up there shouldn't be any options but Ruth?

Or when the Red Sox come up there should only be Williams?

Or the Tigers should only have Cobb?

Or the Dodgers should only have Jackie?



Yankees: Ruth is Ruth but these other guys shine just as bright: Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, & Mickey Mantle.

Red Sox: Jimmie Foxx, Carl Yastrzemski, Bobby Doerr, Jim Rice, Wade Boggs, Tris Speaker

Tigers: Hank Greenberg, Mickey Cochrane, Al Kaline, Charlie Gehringer, Harry Heilmann

Dodgers: Jackie Robinson, Sandy Koufax, Duke Snider, Roy Campanella, Pete Reiser (the best ballplayer nobody has ever heard of)

PKalltheway
07-30-2006, 10:33 PM
I voted for Hank Aaron. You can't ignore someone who is the all time leader in home runs and RBI's, and is third all time in hits (at one point second all time before Pete Rose passed him). Warren Spahn was great (363 wins), but I'll take the Hammer over Spahn anyday of the week.

fquaye149
07-30-2006, 11:00 PM
Yankees: Ruth is Ruth but these other guys shine just as bright: Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, & Mickey Mantle.

Red Sox: Jimmie Foxx, Carl Yastrzemski, Bobby Doerr, Jim Rice, Wade Boggs, Tris Speaker

Tigers: Hank Greenberg, Mickey Cochrane, Al Kaline, Charlie Gehringer, Harry Heilmann

Dodgers: Jackie Robinson, Sandy Koufax, Duke Snider, Roy Campanella, Pete Reiser (the best ballplayer nobody has ever heard of)

Exactly my point. Warren Spahn is a phenomenal pitcher. There's not a pitcher you can name that would put him to shame. He belongs in the pantheon of Clemens, Carlton, Koufax, Johnson, Mathewson, Ryan, et. al. To say "there is no other option than Aaron" would be tantamount to looking at the Dodgers and saying "There is no other option than Robinson."

fquaye149
07-30-2006, 11:01 PM
The question is who is the greatest player for that franchise, not who are the great players who have played for that franchise. If the purpose of the thread was to highlight the great achievements of great Braves, then talking about Matthews, Spahn, etc. would be relevant, but it's not- it's to vote on the single greatest player in the history of the franchise and that distinction belongs to Aaron without question, IMO.

What is it about this you don't understand?

Hank Aaron was one of the 5 best hitters of all time.

Warren Spahn was one of the 5 best pitchers of all time.

Whoever you want to vote for is your own business, and you can make a good case for either. I'm not TELLING anyone they should be voting for Spahn or for Aaron. And that's exactly my point. People are saying "Aaron, duh" or "Aaron. There is no other option." To me that's pretty insulting to one of the best pitchers ever to play.

PKalltheway
07-30-2006, 11:07 PM
What is it about this you don't understand?

Hank Aaron was one of the 5 best hitters of all time.

Warren Spahn was one of the 5 best pitchers of all time.

Whoever you want to vote for is your own business, and you can make a good case for either. I'm not TELLING anyone they should be voting for Spahn or for Aaron. And that's exactly my point. People are saying "Aaron, duh" or "Aaron. There is no other option." To me that's pretty insulting to one of the best pitchers ever to play.
Nice debate we have going on here. I've seen the Hometown Heroes ballot and let me tell you, the Cardinals one was by far the most difficult. You'll see in a few days.:smile:

samram
07-30-2006, 11:15 PM
What is it about this you don't understand?

Hank Aaron was one of the 5 best hitters of all time.

Warren Spahn was one of the 5 best pitchers of all time.

Whoever you want to vote for is your own business, and you can make a good case for either. I'm not TELLING anyone they should be voting for Spahn or for Aaron. And that's exactly my point. People are saying "Aaron, duh" or "Aaron. There is no other option." To me that's pretty insulting to one of the best pitchers ever to play.

I'm not insulting anyone. If you can point out where I said that Spahn was not a phenomenal pitcher, then I'll stand corrected. The question was who is the greatest Brave ever. In my opinion, it is undoubtedly Aaron. That's all it is, my opinion. If someone votes for Spahn, that's fine- I'm not going to put them on my ignore list or whatever.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-30-2006, 11:33 PM
Yankees: Ruth is Ruth but these other guys shine just as bright: Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, & Mickey Mantle.

Red Sox: Jimmie Foxx, Carl Yastrzemski, Bobby Doerr, Jim Rice, Wade Boggs, Tris Speaker

Tigers: Hank Greenberg, Mickey Cochrane, Al Kaline, Charlie Gehringer, Harry Heilmann

Dodgers: Jackie Robinson, Sandy Koufax, Duke Snider, Roy Campanella, Pete Reiser (the best ballplayer nobody has ever heard of)

Ruth is head and shoulders above any ballplayer ever.

Ted Williams, omitted above, is head and shoulders above any other Red Sox.

Ty Cobb, also omitted above, was the best Tiger ever.

Best Dodger - More of a toss up and subject to debate.

fquaye149
07-31-2006, 02:01 AM
. In my opinion, it is undoubtedly Aaron.

When you have a player who is in the top 5 of pitchers and a player who is top 5 in hitters and you say it's undoubtedly one of them, that's where I see you slighting the other.

It's the word undoubtedly. You're saying there's no doubt Aaron is the best Brave ever...it's slighting Spahn, who is one of the greatest players ever to play the game....it'd be as if you said "Mark Buehrle was undoubtedly the best pitcher on the White Sox last year".

That's insulting. I'm sorry. I support your endorsement of Aaron over Spahn. I really do. But undoubtedly? sorry...that rubs me the wrong way.



ps: For all-time Cardinals it's Musial. Period ;-)

ComiskeyBrewer
07-31-2006, 02:22 AM
ps: For all-time Cardinals it's Musial. Period ;-)

To Words: Mr Baseball.

Lyle Mouton
07-31-2006, 09:41 AM
1. Aaron
2. Matthews
3. Otis Nixon

:tongue:

Railsplitter
07-31-2006, 11:40 AM
Hank Aaron best over all.


Wally Berger best in Beantown

Eddie Matthews is the only Braves player to wear a B, an M and an A on his cap.

Warren Spann best pitcher, Maddux and Glavine notwithstanding.

Dale Mruphy best of the Aaron braves.

Railsplitter
07-31-2006, 11:43 AM
I'm not insulting anyone. If you can point out where I said that Spahn was not a phenomenal pitcher, then I'll stand corrected. The question was who is the greatest Brave ever. In my opinion, it is undoubtedly Aaron. That's all it is, my opinion. If someone votes for Spahn, that's fine- I'm not going to put them on my ignore list or whatever.

Seperate catagories for pitchers and position players?