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View Full Version : 2006 Jndjans...what happened???


SpartanSoxFan
07-30-2006, 01:26 AM
Not that I feel bad or upset...

Are any of you completely baffled that a team with 93 wins last year completely failed to show up this year??? I know there were many that picked them to win our division. What are the reasons for this underachievement?

I guess I would have to say it starts with pitching. Milwood leaving the rotation was a big blow, and Byrd has been a dissapointment.

Thoughts?

ShoelessJoeS
07-30-2006, 01:33 AM
Milwood>>>>Byrd, C.C.'s not what he could be, what happened to Cliff Lee?
Wickman stuggles and is traded....

Basically their pitching sucks and their offense is not that good to make up for it.

JorgeFabregas
07-30-2006, 01:36 AM
Jhonny Peralta's been mediocre, Cliff Lee was quite good last year and has been inconsistent. Aaron Boone's been bad. Their bullpen was quite good last year (posting an amazing 2.8 ERA in the AL) and this year has an ERA of 4.65. As much as people here rip on Bob Howry, they miss him.

MrX
07-30-2006, 01:48 AM
I never understood why everyone was falling over themselves to get on the Indians bandwagon.

The starting rotation was much worse, the bullpen was worse, and the line-up was worse.

Apparently the reigning executive player of the years plan to replace players with less talented players hasn't worked out.

Foulke You
07-30-2006, 02:43 AM
To echo some of the sentiments here and add a few of my own points:

Bullpen- Losing Bob Howry hurt them but the biggest lost was dependable lefty (and noted Sox killer) Arthur Rhodes. He was their best option out of the pen and their main bridge pitcher to Bob Wickman. Speaking of Wickman, he looked human this year as he started to show his age and blow saves he normally would have made which made him expendable in a trade to Atlanta.

Starters- C.C. hasn't had a dominant year and struggled with injuries early. Paul Byrd is a downgrade from Millwood and Cliff Lee has been hit or miss while last year was lights out.

Hitting- Aaron Boone has been awful and Ronnie Belliard hasn't produced as they would have hoped which is why he is rumored to be available. In addition to these factors, the Indians offense has been the pinnacle of hit or miss. They can blow through an opposing pitching staff and score 15 runs and then score 2 runs for the next two days. Keep an eye on the box scores for a few weeks and you'll see a lot of blowouts for the Tribe this year. They'll win 12-2 one day and lose 9-3 the next.

It will be interesting to see what moves Shapiro makes to recapture the '05 magic. He's already moved Ben Broussard...could Belliard be next?

Grzegorz
07-30-2006, 05:14 AM
I'd bet they will improve next year. It looks as if Sowers is a solid starter and I am sure Shapiro improves the rotation and bullpen.

The AL Central should be tough in the forseeable future.

caulfield12
07-30-2006, 07:21 AM
Replacing Millwood/Elarton with J. Johnson and Byrd a disaster....

Lost too much of their pen in Riske, Rhodes, Sauerbeck (well, that's another story) and Howry (and now Wickman)...Cabrera will be great someday, but not yet...Betancourt and Jason Davis the only survivors

Carmona and Sowers not as advanced as some of the other rookie hurlers

Signing Peralta early a huge no-no, has been horrible defensively

Victor Martinez should not be catching...is in process of moving to first...but that weakens the line-up offensively

Blake and Michaels are nice complementary players but not corner outfielders

Boone just can't produce anymore offensively, will be replaced by Marte

Belliard a below average defender and head-case who will be gone, replaced by Inglett

Dumb Brandon Phillips trade...he should be starter at SS or 2B now for Indians

Lee has regressed from first two seasons, where he looked to be another Buehrle

Wedge is too passive, a little like Jerry Manuel

WSox597
07-30-2006, 07:46 AM
I don't care where Belliard goes, just get him away from the White sox. The man KILLS the White Sox. He looks like a hall of famer against the Sox.

Every time I see him coming to bat I get nervous. Make him go away. Preferably to the NL.

Many people figured the Indians lost ground in their pitching staff, looks like they were right. Most didn't figure they lost this much ground, though.

rdivaldi
07-30-2006, 08:52 AM
The Eastern Seaboard Propaganda Network is loaded with Tribe fans, thus you had plenty of media infatuation with little evidence to back their wild-eyed predictions. Those that actually took the time to actually think about their team realized at the beginning of the season that their bullpen was going to be terrible and they were going to miss Millwood dearly.

palehozenychicty
07-30-2006, 09:09 AM
Those that actually took the time to actually think about their team realized at the beginning of the season that their bullpen was going to be terrible and they were going to miss Millwood dearly.

Thank you. I couldn't understand how a team can win a division when you replace your best starter with Paul Byrd, starting left fielder with a fourth outfielder, and an infield that's full of bench players. the tribe tried to get by on the cheap and got burned. shapiro went from the best gm to poor gm in only a year. onlly sizemore and pheralta look settled on that entire team. they äre in trouble for a little while.

viagracat
07-30-2006, 10:56 AM
I think Coco Crisp provided the sparkplug that made the Indians run when they were going good, but of course he's now with Boston. It's like the Sox: they have to work a lot harder when Podsednik's not getting it done.

caulfield12
07-30-2006, 11:36 AM
I think Martinez and Hafner are going to be there for a long time....and Marte, too, assuming he pans out...Sabathia, Lee, Cabrera, Betancourt, they have a pretty decent and young foundation

The Immigrant
07-30-2006, 11:50 AM
Poor pitching and offensive inconsistency (read: station-to-station baseball, not moving the runners over, etc.) have killed them this year, and I don't see that changing next year. I don't think it's likely that Sabathia stays in Cleveland much longer, and Westbrook has been featured in trade rumors as well. My guess is that one of them will be moved in the offseason for prospects, which will further weaken their pitching staff. As we all know, you cannot compete in the AL Central without solid pitching.

Many of my relatives live in the Cleveland area and are longtime Tribe fans. They are generally down on Dolan, Shapiro and Wedge and don't have much hope that things will improve in the near future.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2006, 12:08 PM
What happened was they replaced Millwood and Elarton with Byrd and Johnson and traded / lost half of their bullpen.

Yet some folks thought their pitching / team was much improved.

It's always about the pitching folks. Always has been, always will be.

Lip

Chisox003
07-30-2006, 12:18 PM
Cliff Lee is extremely over rated and has been since he started out 9-0 or whatever during the 1st half of the season 2 years ago. :dunno:

A #4 or #5 SP depended on to be a #2 plus replacing the league leader in ERA last year with Paul Byrd is a recipe for disaster. Not saying they should've resigned Milwood for that massive contract, but you gotta do better than Paul Byrd and Jason Johnson if you expect to compete.

Like Lip said, their pitching was their downfall. And a big one at that.

Oh, and going into the season depending on Jason Michaels to be your everyday LF/#2 hitter? :roflmao:

ndgt10
07-30-2006, 02:09 PM
Wedge is a horrible manager. It's funny listening to Hawk salivating over Wedge whenever we play the Indians, though.

MrX
07-30-2006, 03:03 PM
Rumor is Belliard may be on his way to St Louis.

Huisj
07-30-2006, 03:29 PM
Cliff Lee is extremely over rated and has been since he started out 9-0 or whatever during the 1st half of the season 2 years ago. :dunno:



Well, he did go 18-5 last year with an ERA in the 3's. He was good last year pretty consistently.

buehrle4cy05
07-30-2006, 04:00 PM
I think Coco Crisp provided the sparkplug that made the Indians run when they were going good, but of course he's now with Boston.

When that trade was made, I knew the Indians wouldn't make the playoffs. You never trade your leadoff hitter/sparkplug for a prospect if you're trying to win a division.

WSox597
07-30-2006, 04:52 PM
Rumor is Belliard may be on his way to St Louis.

I just saw that on MLB.com, thank goodness he's gone. Now he can mess with the Cubs. The guy looked like a superstar against the Sox.

They're saying Hector Luna for Belliard on MLB.com.

chisoxmike
07-31-2006, 12:34 AM
Their pitching is awful. I told everybody at the the start of the season, I didn't understand what the Indians were doing (Johnson, Byrd) and they would not be in a factor in the AL Central.