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caulfield12
07-27-2006, 04:16 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/whitesox/2006-07-27-standing-pat_x.htm

I respect KW for sitting down and talking to these three players and asking their opinion. Now that's no guarantee our pitching will fix itself or that we will finish ahead of either NY or Minnesota, but at least it's something.

You just wonder if we would have had a better record if this announcement were made two weeks ago...of course, then everyone would say KW was a hypocrite if an opportunity to improve the club came along and he pulled the trigger.

As mentioned on other threads, KW, Reinsdorf and OG have to believe that the odds of their own pitching staff getting straightened out somehow are better than taking a second-tier starter and further diluting the minor league talent pool for the future.

As we all know, there are no guarantees with starting pitching.

peeonwrigley
07-27-2006, 04:27 PM
Right on then. If this is their excuse, its over now. Get it the **** together.

southside rocks
07-27-2006, 04:30 PM
I think this is good. And it was probably Garcia and Vazquez who were most on edge about their trade status, so KW's coming out and saying this will calm them down, right?

Not that this means that Javier will be able to get through the 6th inning when he pitches on Sunday. But Ozzie will be ready for that...

CaptainBallz
07-27-2006, 04:35 PM
I'm 110% fine with that. These guys can pull it together as the team they are. Stronger bullpen, better backup catcher, and 4 of 5 starters that we know are good.

Now let's do this...

Corlose 15
07-27-2006, 04:42 PM
So, what's Buehrle's excuse?:(:

Credefan21
07-27-2006, 04:52 PM
I am actually very dissapointed in this.... I think this team could have used something to shake things up a bit. I think of this is true KW may have dropped the ball a bit. Flame me all you want, but this team could use some improvements lately.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-27-2006, 05:02 PM
Kenny will always fly under the radar. Until July 31 (3:00 PM EDT IIRC) passes anything can happen.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 05:06 PM
Short of acquiring another starting pitcher or giving them all Tom Lemanski fundamentals videos, what would you do at this point in the season?

Give Pods' back his status as American League Disruptor from the first half of last season?

HITMEN OF 77
07-27-2006, 05:06 PM
I am actually very dissapointed in this.... I think this team could have used something to shake things up a bit. I think of this is true KW may have dropped the ball a bit. Flame me all you want, but this team could use some improvements lately.

I agree with you. Trade Pods, Vazquez and or pitching prospects for Soriano. Now I'll get flammed....

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 05:07 PM
I agree with you. Trade Pods, Vazquez and or pitching prospects for Soriano. Now I'll get flammed....Right. If there's one thing this team needs right now it's MORE players swinging from their heels.:rolleyes:

twsoxfan5
07-27-2006, 05:09 PM
There are trade talks out there for every team. I am tired of excuses and I just want this team to win.

mjmcend
07-27-2006, 05:09 PM
I agree with you. Trade Pods, Vazquez and or pitching prospects for Soriano. Now I'll get flammed....

I would do that deal in a second and in my opinoin so would KW. However, there is no way in hell the Nationals would ever do that.

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2006, 05:11 PM
I would do that deal in a second and in my opinoin so would KW. However, there is no way in hell the Nationals would ever do that.

Maybe if the Sox picked up Javy's entire salary.......not likely.

MarySwiss
07-27-2006, 05:12 PM
I am actually very dissapointed in this.... I think this team could have used something to shake things up a bit. I think of this is true KW may have dropped the ball a bit. Flame me all you want, but this team could use some improvements lately.

Yes, the team could use some improvements, but not in its personnel. They just have to get it together; i.e., the pitchers need to stop giving up runs early and the hitters/coaches need to stop stranding runners on the basepaths.

And I have no doubt they will.

hold2dibber
07-27-2006, 05:13 PM
I agree with you. Trade Pods, Vazquez and or pitching prospects for Soriano. Now I'll get flammed....

The Sox don't need another slugger. They need better pitching. The offense has sputtered lately because Thome and Konerko (and AJ and Pods) are all struggling, but those guys are all quality hitters who likely we rebound. I don't think Soriano would have helped much and, over the long-term, would have actually hurt (he'd walk next winter and the Sox would be without a lead-off hitter).

DickAllen72
07-27-2006, 05:15 PM
Right. If there's one thing this team needs right now it's MORE players swinging from their heels.

What's needed is a leadoff man with real speed who can steal bases. A guy who can beat out balls hit into the hole or ones that the second baseman dives for behind the base. And if the guy can hit a bunch of home runs too, that's just a bonus.

Anyway, it looks like the Sox are out of the running so count on "Tippy Toes" and Ozuna platooning in LF and Mackowiak playing a bunch in CF for the rest of the season. Paulie , Jimmy & Jermaine said they're good enough to get it done. Now it's time for them to back it up.

hold2dibber
07-27-2006, 05:16 PM
I am actually very dissapointed in this.... I think this team could have used something to shake things up a bit. I think of this is true KW may have dropped the ball a bit. Flame me all you want, but this team could use some improvements lately.

It's very easy to say they should do something to improve the team. It's a whole thing altogether to find a team that is willing to make a fair deal for someone who actually will improve the club. Who do you think they should have tried to get? And what do you think they should have been willing to give up to get him? We all wish KW could have improved the team. But I suspect that there just wasn't a match out there that made sense.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 05:17 PM
I think the Tigers' offensive philosophy (if they have one) of free-swinging, high strikeout, low walk and low OBP will be seriously challenged when the playoffs begin. Dmitri Young is not exactly Mr. Discipline for them either...which is the reason Abreu made sense, although it is difficult to justify that type of money for a DH. I guess they could have moved him over to LF (or moved Magglio), but I don't think Leyland wanted to punish Thames after he helped carry the team in May and June.

If they get the pitching from Verlander and Bonderman, they could still hold up, but Rogers is starting to worry front office insiders.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 05:17 PM
What's needed is a leadoff man with real speed who can steal bases. A guy who can beat out balls hit into the hole or ones that the second baseman dives for behind the base. And if the guy can hit a bunch of home runs too, that's just a bonus.

Anyway, it looks like the Sox are out of the running so count on "Tippy Toes" and Ozuna platooning in LF and Mackowiack playing a bunch in CF for the rest of the season. Paulie , Jimmy & Jermaine said they're good enough to get it done. Now it's time for them to back it up.You can't steal if you can't get on base. Facing AL Central pitching, Soriano would be lucky to manage a .300 OBP.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 05:25 PM
It's not like you can just click your heels together and get that type of player....the Royals traded for Gathright and he has SOME of the characteristics, but do you really want someone like him in LF right now in the heat of a pennant race?

Or Nook Logan, although obviously the Tigers wouldn't trade him to us.

I know it's inevitable someone will mention Carl Crawford's name, but we can't give up McCarthy to get him...we will undoubtedly need him the next two months and for certain, the next four years in the rotation.

Figgins, Pierre, Suzuki, Crawford and Patterson are the only ones with more steals. Obviously, the Angels won't give up Figgins, and the M's won't just give us Ichiro. Which leaves Pierre or Patterson, who would fit right in with our high strikeout offense of recent weeks. Pierre versus Pods has been threaded to death, no point in getting into that again.

Or do you think Dave Roberts is so much better than Pods? We're all frustrated with the team in general, Ozzie, KW...most of the players...but that doesn't mean wheeling and dealing right and left would fix anything. They fought through last year's slide without any additional help, besides Jenks and Blum.

bluestar
07-27-2006, 05:29 PM
If they get the pitching from Verlander and Bonderman, they could still hold up, but Rogers is starting to worry front office insiders.
They need to be worrying about Robertson and Miner/Maroth, too. Robertson had a hot streak earlier in the season, but looks to be coming back to his norm. Miner isn't looking good at all, and who knows how effective Maroth will be? I also think they should be legitimately concerned as the innings pile up for Verlander.

OTOH, their offense can compensate for some bad pitching, especially if they add Soriano.

Maybe their offense will go into a collective funk just like the Sox at some point.

JB98
07-27-2006, 05:37 PM
Bravo KW. We don't need anything else. We have more than enough to win another championship. No more excuses. Let's play some damn baseball and win some games.

MVP
07-27-2006, 05:44 PM
If this true, then this thread should just be called "Sox are done." As it is we're tied or trailing several teams that are all probably going to get better. Our team has the talent to compete for the playoffs, but outside of Contreras and now Garland, our starting pitching is not producing. I would've at least like to have seen McCarthy replace Vazquez in the rotation and get some more bullpen help in exchange for Vazquez.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 05:44 PM
Which is why this whole series w/ the Twins is a conundrum.

And the Twins have their three aces lined up in a row to go after Detroit, so I would be surprised if Detroit didn't lose at least two out of three.

Not to mention the fact that Verlander is missing the series.

And then you have no idea what's going to happen with NY and Boston and Toronto.

Suppposedly Boston is on the cusp of making a big trade today.

JB98
07-27-2006, 05:45 PM
If this true, then this thread should just be called "Sox are done." As it is we're tied or trailing several teams that are all probably going to get better. Our team has the talent to compete for the playoffs, but outside of Contreras and now Garland, our starting pitching is not producing. I would've at least like to have seen McCarthy replace Vazquez in the rotation and get some more bullpen help in exchange for Vazquez.

Other teams are trying to get better in order to catch up to our talent level. We just need to start playing to our talent level.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 05:47 PM
Buehrle will take himself out if he feels he is hurting the team.

OG and Cooper seem determined to go with Vazquez, but I think a lot will obviously depend on the standings. Development of Javier's confidence will have to take a backseat to winning...although they keep pointing out he will never get through the 5th/6th unless they let him fight through those situations...well, we're not in a position like last season at this time when development at the major league level supercedes wins.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 05:49 PM
Other teams are trying to get better in order to catch up to our talent level. We just need to start playing to our talent level.Exactly. On paper the Sox are still the best team in baseball. They just need to start playing like it. They're more than capable of a 100+ win season.

Paulwny
07-27-2006, 05:52 PM
Buehrle will take himself out if he feels he is hurting the team.

.

How do you know this to be correct ?

MarySwiss
07-27-2006, 05:57 PM
Other teams are trying to get better in order to catch up to our talent level. We just need to start playing to our talent level.

Exactly. On paper the Sox are still the best team in baseball. They just need to start playing like it. They're more than capable of a 100+ win season.

Yep. We'll be fine.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 05:57 PM
It's just my gut feeling. Foulke basically did something similar a few years back.

Buehrle would offer to go back to the pen and work on things and give McCarthy a chance to start while he sorted himself out mentally.

Paulwny
07-27-2006, 06:01 PM
It's just my gut feeling. Foulke basically did something similar a few years back.

Buehrle would offer to go back to the pen and work on things and give McCarthy a chance to start while he sorted himself out mentally.

I don't think so, Buehrle will keep himself in the rotation to figure out his problems and will only go to the pen when forced by Ozzie and Coop.

JB98
07-27-2006, 06:08 PM
I don't think so, Buehrle will keep himself in the rotation to figure out his problems and will only go to the pen when forced by Ozzie and Coop.

I agree. He's too much of a competitor to pull himself out of the rotation. I actually didn't like it when Foulke removed himself from the closer's role. To me, that's like giving up.

Domeshot17
07-27-2006, 06:16 PM
I just fear we are what we say we are, paper champions. I think we need to make a move to just relight the fire, because this team just isnt playing that intense, every game could be your last baseball.

Im all for the guys pulling together and turning it on, but you think its that easy? Like they just wanted to lose 12 of 15 but all of the sudden can win 14 of 16?? I mean you ask the guys in the clubhouse, and widger and politte would probably still be on the team.

All I know is if we keep losing, we will probably have a new manager next year. I love Ozzie, but we dont have injuries or anything to blame this on, just bad baseball. This team needs to get refocused, and get hungry again. Make them take a train to the next few series haha.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 06:22 PM
And replace him with Lou Piniella?

And it's a horrible managing job when we (in all likelihood) lose to two teams with more than 95 victories?

We waited 2 1/2 years to fire LaRussa after 1983, and Reinsdorf still regrets that as much as anything since he became owner.

Look how much time they gave Ditka...he gets a lot more rope than one year.

Scottzilla
07-27-2006, 06:28 PM
FIRE OZZIE? ? ARE YOU CRAZY?
its amazing the extremes, some people say keep pods no matter what cuz he hit a homer last fall. others say fire ozzie cuz the team may not win 115 games?
paper champion? why are the 05 sox the fluke and not the 06 tigers?
You all just need to RELAX

Domeshot17
07-27-2006, 06:30 PM
Again im not saying FIRE OZZIE, I dont want to see him go.

But if this team keeps sinking, You can bet if he is still here his butt is on the line in 2007.

I mean, look at this roster, its loaded, there is no reason it shouldnt win 95-100 games and be in the playoffs. The only people who shouldnt believe that is the team, so their heads dont get too big. The coaching staff, as a collective whole, has been terrible lately. We need them to get better so the players can.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 06:39 PM
And you think if Leo Mazzone was managing these guys the last two weeks there would be five more quality starts?

thomas35forever
07-27-2006, 06:44 PM
If this is the team we're taking to the World Series, then so be it. But we better get it together starting tomorrow if we wanna get there.

Domeshot17
07-27-2006, 06:48 PM
I don't get how you can say ozzie hasnt be managing poorly.

How many times have you wished he didnt make a change or did make it or wish he didnt start this guy or batted this guy here. He has been out managing himself.

IF you think the players are pressing right now, look at the coaching, im not saying the coaching IS bad, Im saying its BEEN bad. They are pressing, trying too hard, except for wendell cora at 3b, Kenny should put out the 10 grand to have his arm sewn to the side of his body.

Scottzilla
07-27-2006, 06:48 PM
If ozzie were fired I would have to stop being a sox fan. I would have absolutely no confindence in management and would have to sit out baseball fandom until there is a change. Consistently successful teams do not change managers every two years.

JB98
07-27-2006, 06:52 PM
I just fear we are what we say we are, paper champions. I think we need to make a move to just relight the fire, because this team just isnt playing that intense, every game could be your last baseball.

Im all for the guys pulling together and turning it on, but you think its that easy? Like they just wanted to lose 12 of 15 but all of the sudden can win 14 of 16?? I mean you ask the guys in the clubhouse, and widger and politte would probably still be on the team.

All I know is if we keep losing, we will probably have a new manager next year. I love Ozzie, but we dont have injuries or anything to blame this on, just bad baseball. This team needs to get refocused, and get hungry again. Make them take a train to the next few series haha.

A panic move is going to relight the fire? I don't think fire is a problem in the least. I think the team is playing with too much intensity, and guys are pressing trying to bring the team out of the slump. They are so tight right now they couldn't fart a BB. I see the exact opposite of what you see.

Scottzilla
07-27-2006, 06:53 PM
again teams go through slumps, so maybe ozzie is trying too hard at this point. hes only been a manager 2 years.
If this whole slump is mental then, i know it sounds corny, but we gotta just get behind these guys and cheer for them instead of demanding another championship out of them.

Save McCuddy's
07-27-2006, 06:55 PM
It's too bad KW didn't adopt this policy prior to the Vazquez acquisition. I liked this club alot better with McCarthy in the rotation and the possibility of calling up Young at this point in the season for a spark. God I hated that trade.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 06:59 PM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/

It might not matter if this Garza kid on the cover is the real deal for Minnesota...with Radke, Liriano and Santana to go with another stud, it would be over for the entire American League...with the possible exception of the Angels if they can pull off a Soriano/Carlos Lee/Abreu deal.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 07:52 PM
A panic move is going to relight the fire? I don't think fire is a problem in the least. I think the team is playing with too much intensity, and guys are pressing trying to bring the team out of the slump. They are so tight right now they couldn't fart a BB. I see the exact opposite of what you see.I agree. This is a classic team slump. Everyone is pressing. Silva is the worst starting pitcher in the AL and they made him look like Cy Young. Why? Because they were pressing. All he had to do was toss changeups and they swung over the top.

JB98
07-27-2006, 08:08 PM
I agree. This is a classic team slump. Everyone is pressing. Silva is the worst starting pitcher in the AL and they made him look like Cy Young. Why? Because they were pressing. All he had to do was toss changeups and they swung over the top.

It's like every guy goes to the plate thinking, "I'm going to hit the goddamn ball 500 feet and get us out of this slump." In baseball, I think trying harder makes things worse. It isn't like football or basketball, where turning up the intensity can cure things. I was at the Cell for Tuesday night's game, and I thought the energy and intensity was very good that night. Every break went against us, and we just came up short against some tough pitching.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 08:18 PM
It's like every guy goes to the plate thinking, "I'm going to hit the goddamn ball 500 feet and get us out of this slump." In baseball, I think trying harder makes things worse. It isn't like football or basketball, where turning up the intensity can cure things. I was at the Cell for Tuesday night's game, and I thought the energy and intensity was very good that night. Every break went against us, and we just came up short against some tough pitching.That's exactly it. Everyone wants to be the spark. But sometimes less is more. If you pour gasoline on a spark you'll put it out. IMO the way out of it is to call more hit-and-runs, bunts...anything to break them out of the current mindset. Get them thinking differently and they'll play differently.

samram
07-27-2006, 08:20 PM
Ok, they're going to stand pat. Fine by me. In that case, I would tell the team to get their collective head out of their ass and win some ****ing games. It's time for the pitchers to pitch to their abilities. There's no doubt the Sox have enough to win the World Series- now it's time to play like it. If they don't win it, it's on the players and Ozzie, not KW.

Brian26
07-27-2006, 08:21 PM
That's exactly it. Everyone wants to be the spark. But sometimes less is more. If you pour gasoline on a spark you'll put it out. IMO the way out of it is to call more hit-and-runs, bunts...anything to break them out of the current mindset. Get them thinking differently and they'll play differently.

Too many guys are going up there looking for the game winning homerun. Dye and Pierzynski, especially.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 08:27 PM
Too many guys are going up there looking for the game winning homerun. Dye and Pierzynski, especially.The list is longer than just those two. Ask yourself this: When is the last time you saw a player celebrate over grounding out behind the runner? It happened a lot last year.

samram
07-27-2006, 08:29 PM
The list is longer than just those two. Ask yourself this: When is the last time you saw a player celebrate over grounding out behind the runner? It happened a lot last year.

One problem is there haven't been a lot of guys on second base with less than two out lately.

JB98
07-27-2006, 08:31 PM
One problem is there haven't been a lot of guys on second base with less than two out lately.

True. In the top of the first inning, when Thome comes up with two outs and nobody on, it's sort of hard to blame him for swinging for the fences.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 08:32 PM
One problem is there haven't been a lot of guys on second base with less than two out lately.You don't have to be on second base. It works with a runner on first with no outs. Get him in scoring position with two chances to drive him in. I can't recall the last time I've seen anyone do it...intentionally, that is.

Brian26
07-27-2006, 08:45 PM
The list is longer than just those two.

I agree. Pods' new-found power is a bit disconcerting, and Uribe has always been a swing-from-the-heels type of guy, not far removed from the Sammy Sosa model. Add Thome and Crede to the list too.

peeonwrigley
07-27-2006, 08:54 PM
I look at it as a lack of confidence in one another. What is a base hit if the next 3 guys don't do squat? They need to be confident that as a group they can string 3 or 4 hits together in an inning to score some runs.

PushnThaEscalade
07-27-2006, 08:57 PM
In Kenny I trust. I hope you all do the same. Ozzie and the gang will right the ship.

35th&Shields
07-27-2006, 09:18 PM
The Sox don't need another slugger. They need better pitching.
Not to split hairs, but the White Sox don't need better pitching, they need their pitchers to play better. I don't think they could have traded for any pitching that was more talented than they've got. They have the talent, now they just need to play like it.

Domeshot17
07-27-2006, 09:22 PM
JB, the reason I say I feel the intensity isnt there, You see Morneau hit the home run to put them up, no matter the inning, and he is pumped, and everyone in the dugout is there to meet him and they are fired up. The home runs yesterday, Credes Single, the dugout just seemed to have this "we'll find a way to blow it" look. I know they care, I made the mistake last week of comparing their heart to their intensity, it was a poor choice of words. The emotion, the want is there, its obvious, but the intensity and confidence are not IMHO.

JB98
07-27-2006, 09:25 PM
JB, the reason I say I feel the intensity isnt there, You see Morneau hit the home run to put them up, no matter the inning, and he is pumped, and everyone in the dugout is there to meet him and they are fired up. The home runs yesterday, Credes Single, the dugout just seemed to have this "we'll find a way to blow it" look. I know they care, I made the mistake last week of comparing their heart to their intensity, it was a poor choice of words. The emotion, the want is there, its obvious, but the intensity and confidence are not IMHO.

The intensity is there; the confidence is not. Without a doubt, the team has lost its swagger.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 09:26 PM
JB, the reason I say I feel the intensity isnt there, You see Morneau hit the home run to put them up, no matter the inning, and he is pumped, and everyone in the dugout is there to meet him and they are fired up. The home runs yesterday, Credes Single, the dugout just seemed to have this "we'll find a way to blow it" look. I know they care, I made the mistake last week of comparing their heart to their intensity, it was a poor choice of words. The emotion, the want is there, its obvious, but the intensity and confidence are not IMHO.Don't mistake lack of confidence for lack of intensity or desire. Teams in slumps always have that look. They seem not to have any fire. Who goes around high-fiving when you've lost 12 of 15? It's lack of confidence that you're seeing.

Domeshot17
07-27-2006, 09:31 PM
I guess my point was, you will know when this team is back. They will all be pulling for each other and that swagger will be back, it has to happen 1 game.

You know something else I thought of, when is the last time, really, that we had a BIG inning. Not a hit and a homer, but a double double walk single double single home run, one of those innings we saw in the first half. The day we have one of those is the day this team goes on a ****ing butt kicking streak.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-27-2006, 09:36 PM
You know something else I thought of, when is the last time, really, that we had a BIG inning. Not a hit and a homer, but a double double walk single double single home run, one of those innings we saw in the first half.

The last time that happened was when we were stealing signs against St. Louis.

rowand33
07-27-2006, 09:37 PM
why do people keep insisting that the Sox need pitching?

in my mind, the only way to improve from our current starting pitching is Vazquez out and B.Mac in.

We just have to hope that Garcia and Buehrle play better.

Dye, Thome, and Paulie are right that we can win this thing with the players that we have.

the only glaring hole on the team is leadoff man. besides that, there's no one position that you can really upgrade at.

We can't improve over slumping players like Buehrle, Thome, etc. We just have to cross our fingers and hope they play better.

if they do, great. if they don't, we're ****ed.

that's why I've been so for soriano. only position that we oculd improve upon (I love the people that think soriano is a bad leadoff man... :rolleyes: )

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 09:41 PM
I guess my point was, you will know when this team is back. They will all be pulling for each other and that swagger will be back, it has to happen 1 game.

You know something else I thought of, when is the last time, really, that we had a BIG inning. Not a hit and a homer, but a double double walk single double single home run, one of those innings we saw in the first half. The day we have one of those is the day this team goes on a ****ing butt kicking streak.When you're not hitting, the chances of stringing together multiple hits drops dramatically. For example:

For three .300 hitters, the chance of them stringing together three hits in a row is 2.7%

For three .200 hitters, the chance of them stringing together three hits in a row is 0.8%

Of course, you don't necessarily need three in a row because you get three outs in an inning, so the chances of getting three hits in an inning is a lot higher in both cases, but you get the idea...a run here and a run there, but no sustained rallies.

DickAllen72
07-27-2006, 09:51 PM
why do people keep insisting that the Sox need pitching?

in my mind, the only way to improve from our current starting pitching is Vazquez out and B.Mac in.

We just have to hope that Garcia and Buehrle play better.

Dye, Thome, and Paulie are right that we can win this thing with the players that we have.

the only glaring hole on the team is leadoff man. besides that, there's no one position that you can really upgrade at.

We can't improve over slumping players like Buehrle, Thome, etc. We just have to cross our fingers and hope they play better.

if they do, great. if they don't, we're ****ed.

that's why I've been so for soriano. only position that we oculd improve upon (I love the people that think soriano is a bad leadoff man... :rolleyes: )

You are so correct.

Save McCuddy's
07-27-2006, 10:01 PM
Lack of timely hitting has been blamed for a good portion of this slump. No question that we have had few big hits -- especially late in games.

However, it seems to me that the lack of timely pitching has hurt just as much. Doesn't it seem like every time we score in tightly contested games and take what would appear to be momentum, the next half inning were giving up rockets? In Vazquez's last two 6th inning melt downs, we scored to extend leads in the previous half inning. Thome's 2 out 1st inning homer off Santana is bigger than your typical solo shot. Coming into the game he ahd a 1.09 ERA against us -- there you go with that run right away in the first. Our ace is on the mound and we've actually taken the lead against their horse. The longer you hold that lead, the better the chances are that you'll get some other opportunities to score and they'll start to press. No such luck. Kubel homers about 4 minutes later. We climb back into game 3 to tie it -- bam 2 run shot to deflate us in the next half inning.

At a certain point, it begins to parallel a football game. Scoring in and of itself is fairly hollow. Scoring followed by stopping the opponent builds momentum and fires the coals. Can we find a pitcher who can spark us in that respect -- someone other than just Jon Steven Garland.

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 10:18 PM
It's REALLY been that way ever since that Marcus Thames slide, with the exception of Sunday's game.

That game and the Jenks/Michael Young extra inning fiasco really seemed to take the wind out of our sails.

Domeshot17
07-27-2006, 10:59 PM
Things have been bad since before the all star break, I dont think any one play has done it this year. Its just been dud base ball.

Credefan21
07-28-2006, 12:54 PM
The more time goes by, the more I doubt KW is going to make a move. This may come back to kick him when Javier more than likely continues to suck. I am dissapointed. Hopefully something will happen, but it doesn't look like it.

White City
07-28-2006, 01:16 PM
Quote:

I remember in '97 (with the Texas Rangers) when we were battling the Angels for the wild card. We got Royce Clayton (http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=MLB&id=1714), Todd Zeile and Todd Stottlemyre all the same day. I bumped into (Angels shortstop) Gary DiSarcina, and he told me that deflated their whole clubhouse. So it can have a real psychological effect."


I know I'd be crapping my pants if one of our competitors went and picked him up.

slobes
07-28-2006, 02:02 PM
I think we have the talent necessary to repeat. There are no gapings holes in our gameplan that must be filled.

Erik The Red
07-28-2006, 02:10 PM
Maybe if the Sox picked up Javy's entire salary.......not likely.
The Sox are only paying roughly 1/3 of Javy's salary, the rest is being paid by NY and Arizona. Even if the Sox weren't picking up his remaining salary, the team that gets him would only be paying a couple million this season, and about 4 million next season.

Ol' No. 2
07-28-2006, 02:13 PM
The Sox are only paying roughly 1/3 of Javy's salary, the rest is being paid by NY and Arizona. Even if the Sox weren't picking up his remaining salary, the team that gets him would only be paying a couple million this season, and about 4 million next season.I don't know where you got that information, but it's wrong.

Javier Carlos Vazquez (http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=840): signed 4-Year EXTENSION worth 45M- + received a 2M signing bonus- will make 8.5M in 2004, 10.5M in 2005, 11.5M in 2006, and 12.5M in 2007- + 3M each year of his 2005, 2006 and 2007 salaries is contributed by the Yankees- + invoked his right by parameters set by the CBA to demand a trade on 11/11/05 because he was traded in the middle of a multi-year contract (if he is not traded by March 15th, 2006 then he may forfeit remaining salaries and declare free agency)- + as a result of demanding a trade and then receiving the trade, he can not become a free agent until three seasons after the trade, meaning he will eligible for arbitration following the 2007 season and eligible for free agency after the 2008 season- + 1M of 2006 salary paid by ARI and 3M of 2007 salary paid by ARI
Agent: Sam and Seth Levinson Service Time: 7.141

hold2dibber
07-28-2006, 02:48 PM
I don't know where you got that information, but it's wrong.

Javier Carlos Vazquez (http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=840): signed 4-Year EXTENSION worth 45M- + received a 2M signing bonus- will make 8.5M in 2004, 10.5M in 2005, 11.5M in 2006, and 12.5M in 2007- + 3M each year of his 2005, 2006 and 2007 salaries is contributed by the Yankees- + invoked his right by parameters set by the CBA to demand a trade on 11/11/05 because he was traded in the middle of a multi-year contract (if he is not traded by March 15th, 2006 then he may forfeit remaining salaries and declare free agency)- + as a result of demanding a trade and then receiving the trade, he can not become a free agent until three seasons after the trade, meaning he will eligible for arbitration following the 2007 season and eligible for free agency after the 2008 season- + 1M of 2006 salary paid by ARI and 3M of 2007 salary paid by ARI
Agent: Sam and Seth Levinson Service Time: 7.141

So the Sox "only" have to pay him $6.5 million next year. The guy certainly has good enough stuff to be a solid, above average starting pitcher. I am hoping Cooper can do what he's done for Contreras, Cotts, Thornton, Politte, etc. for Vazquez. If he pitches like he's capable of, $6.5 million is a steal. If he continues pitching like he's been pitching, $6.5 million is waste.

Erik The Red
07-28-2006, 02:56 PM
I don't know where you got that information, but it's wrong.

I knew I shouldn't have been listening to Murphy. :redface:

caulfield12
07-28-2006, 03:36 PM
We have to pay Vazquez $9.5 million next year. We don't get the Yankees' money and the money from the D-Backs...it doesn't work that way.

Ol' No. 2
07-28-2006, 09:43 PM
I knew I shouldn't have been listening to Murphy. :redface:It took you this long to figure that out? :wink:

kitekrazy
07-29-2006, 10:37 AM
If ozzie were fired I would have to stop being a sox fan. I would have absolutely no confindence in management and would have to sit out baseball fandom until there is a change. Consistently successful teams do not change managers every two years.
Nor would any successful manager want to work for such an organization.