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View Full Version : Well, I think this is reasonable to discuss...


MikeLove
07-27-2006, 12:58 PM
I think that Ozzie needs to revaluate his lineup setting procedure in the future...

We hear all year long that it is so great that Ozzie gets his backups a lot of playingtime because it keeps them fresh, rests the starters, etc... But is there any evidence that it really helps? Two years in a row now that we've hit big time second half skids. Last years was a little worse and longer so far, but i think this one is way more important cause it has been against the teams we are competing with for the wildcard/division. The rotating lineups might sound great, but really does it actually help?

In my opinion, as long as you are getting average to above average pitching (like earlier in the year) you gotta trot your starters out there. The pitching is always the most crucial thing, and as seen recently it wouldnt matter if you had 8 all-stars out on the field if your pitchers can't keep runs of the board. so if you are getting quality efforts do your best to sieze them. The backups can play now when javier vazquez(i wrote javy originally, but i don't think he deserves anything but his government name while he is pitching like this) starts...

Baseball is a marthon, yes, but i think that is why it is all the more important to stockpile as many wins as you can because you will inevitably run across these teamwide slumps... I'm sure we'd all feel a lot better if we had 3-5 more wins right now, and I think there has been enough games that we lost where we would have had most of our starters out there that we would have had a good chance of winning to get those extra 3-5. (Ozuna in LF at KC early in the year immediately jumps to mind, Makowiak butchering balls that Anderson would have gotten easily in several games jumps out too)

What do you guys think?

jenn2080
07-27-2006, 01:01 PM
there a few threads on this

MikeLove
07-27-2006, 01:04 PM
i went back 2 or 3 pages and didn't see any threads dedicated to this, my bad if i missed one

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 01:06 PM
What a novel idea for a thread.

:deadhorse:

DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 01:06 PM
i went back 2 or 3 pages and didn't see any threads dedicated to this, my bad if i missed one

See my post here:
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=76020

I heard this on the radio on my lunch and didn't think about it too much, but it makes sense... if you move Dye to the 3-hole, and bump Thome and PK down, then you put two of the slowest men in the game in front of two gap hitters. So if Thome walks or PK manages a single, then you are asking Thome and PK to score from first on a Crede or AJ double. The thought of Thome or PK trying to score from first on a double really scares me.

EDIT: In response to your post... Guys need days off. Fortunately for us, its a softer blow since the bench is strong.

jenn2080
07-27-2006, 01:07 PM
i went back 2 or 3 pages and didn't see any threads dedicated to this, my bad if i missed one


no there arent exact ones but there are plenty on the topic just worded dif.

Tekijawa
07-27-2006, 01:08 PM
http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/trophy.jpg

Enough Evidence?



It got us something Chicago hasn't had for 86 years... It may not work ever again... but I'm still happy

MikeLove
07-27-2006, 01:16 PM
jenn uhhhhhh ok, i heard white sox baseball was also discussed here a few times too.

the guy with the 3-4-5 statistics, that was a good post, i read that before i made this one actually.

World Series Trophy.... ah yes the gigantic wrench in my argument. well imho you gotta take the playoffs as a different animal, my post is more geared towards the regular season. It was pretty clear that the sox were white hot the last few games of the regular season and through the playoffs, but we almost didn't make it. I don't know if you can chalk up the playoff sucess to guys getting more than the mlb average playingtime for backups or just the natural ebb and flow of teams getting hot and cold, I say this because they got hot after almost blowing a 15 game lead in august so they were playing bad for an extended period of time right before their final push. But yeah i mean i dont know for sure thats why im having more of a discussion than saying i am right

Tekijawa
07-27-2006, 01:20 PM
jenn uhhhhhh ok, i heard white sox baseball was also discussed here a few times too.

the guy with the 3-4-5 statistics, that was a good post, i read that before i made this one actually.

World Series Trophy.... ah yes the gigantic wrench in my argument. well imho you gotta take the playoffs as a different animal, my post is more geared towards the regular season. It was pretty clear that the sox were white hot the last few games of the regular season and through the playoffs, but we almost didn't make it. I don't know if you can chalk up the playoff sucess to guys getting more than the mlb average playingtime for backups or just the natural ebb and flow of teams getting hot and cold, I say this because they got hot after almost blowing a 15 game lead in august so they were playing bad for an extended period of time right before their final push. But yeah i mean i dont know for sure thats why im having more of a discussion than saying i am right

We had the second best record in baseball last year... when did we almost not make it?

MikeLove
07-27-2006, 01:29 PM
We had the second best record in baseball last year... when did we almost not make it?

sept 22 to the 24th we were 1.5 games ahead in the division. i guess i forgot about the wildcard... Well anyway the point remains that we were 15 up on the tribe august 1st, so even though we would have won the wildcard we did have a significant slide...

jenn2080
07-27-2006, 01:32 PM
jenn uhhhhhh ok, i heard white sox baseball was also discussed here a few times too.

the guy with the 3-4-5 statistics, that was a good post, i read that before i made this one actually.

World Series Trophy.... ah yes the gigantic wrench in my argument. well imho you gotta take the playoffs as a different animal, my post is more geared towards the regular season. It was pretty clear that the sox were white hot the last few games of the regular season and through the playoffs, but we almost didn't make it. I don't know if you can chalk up the playoff sucess to guys getting more than the mlb average playingtime for backups or just the natural ebb and flow of teams getting hot and cold, I say this because they got hot after almost blowing a 15 game lead in august so they were playing bad for an extended period of time right before their final push. But yeah i mean i dont know for sure thats why im having more of a discussion than saying i am right


:thud:who would have though!

Tekijawa
07-27-2006, 01:38 PM
sept 22 to the 24th we were 1.5 games ahead in the division. i guess i forgot about the wildcard... Well anyway the point remains that we were 15 up on the tribe august 1st, so even though we would have won the wildcard we did have a significant slide...

well that didn't last long... I think I proved the case... maybe we can close the thread now... What topic should we discuss next? How about Baby names?

Jurr
07-27-2006, 02:26 PM
How easily you forget Pablo Ozuna and Alex Cintron's magic this year. When everything is going south, every decision looks terrible.

Ozzie's been trying to catch lightning in a bottle lately, but the approach shouldn't change. Having those bench guys getting at bats helps them come through later.

Now, should the Sox go with a standard lineup for a week or two while they scratch outta this slump? Could work. However, we have a good bench, and the bench should play from time to time.

DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 02:30 PM
There's a nice article by Jim over at Sox Machine about Ozzie's (mis)use of Mackowiak as a platoon player instead of a pinchhitter or corner outfield defensive replacement in late innings. Has some nice stats to back up his argument...

http://soxmachine.com/blogs/soxmachine/archive/2006/07/26/1256.aspx

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2006, 03:48 PM
There's a nice article by Jim over at Sox Machine about Ozzie's (mis)use of Mackowiak as a platoon player instead of a pinchhitter or corner outfield defensive replacement in late innings. Has some nice stats to back up his argument...

http://soxmachine.com/blogs/soxmachine/archive/2006/07/26/1256.aspx

Good article......and I agree with him.

MikeLove
07-27-2006, 04:08 PM
from that link

"When Ozzie needs a left-handed bat off the bench in a key situation, he isn't going for the best left-handed bat. He's going for the left-handed bat who can take over for that position in the next half-inning. That being the case, Scott Podsednik always pinch-hits for Pablo Ozuna, Alex Cintron always pinch-hits for Juan Uribe, and Mackowiak always pinch-hits for Anderson. "

that is an excellent point and i really almost forgot that you could use our bench in a different way as far as pinch hitting goes, we really do rarely see (with the sox) a move that doesnt include directly replacing the person you pinch hitted for in the field. Hopefully we start to see more of this, theres been a lot of times podsednik pinch hit this year in a crucial situation and failed everytime!

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 04:20 PM
from that link

"When Ozzie needs a left-handed bat off the bench in a key situation, he isn't going for the best left-handed bat. He's going for the left-handed bat who can take over for that position in the next half-inning. That being the case, Scott Podsednik always pinch-hits for Pablo Ozuna, Alex Cintron always pinch-hits for Juan Uribe, and Mackowiak always pinch-hits for Anderson. "

that is an excellent point and i really almost forgot that you could use our bench in a different way as far as pinch hitting goes, we really do rarely see (with the sox) a move that doesnt include directly replacing the person you pinch hitted for in the field. Hopefully we start to see more of this, theres been a lot of times podsednik pinch hit this year in a crucial situation and failed everytime!Sorry, but it's a stupid point. Neglecting the back-up catcher, you have only four bench players. It makes no sense to burn through half of them in one AB unless the game is on the line at that moment.