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View Full Version : 3-4-5 Hitters July Offensive Statistics


DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 12:17 PM
The Sox have the best 3-4-5 in baseball, but you'll have to look beyond July's results to support this. It has been an abismal July for Thome and Konerko.

Thome, who started the year with a staggering OPS, walking seemingly twice a game and homering at least twice a series, has fallen off the map. In August, Thome is batting 296, but his OBP fell to a Wee-Willie-esk 352. He has only walked 7 times in 81 at-bats while whiffing a mind-numbing 23 times which works out to a strikeout once every four ABs. That's just plain bad.

Paul Konerko has just been bad at everything this month. Evidentially, PK saved his annual April/May craptacular for August. This month, he is batting 243 with a 316 on-base. He has taken just 8 walks in 70 at-bats while striking out an alarming 13 times in the same stretch. 10 of his 17 August hits went for singles with 1 double and 6 homers. This equates to a 514 slugging, not bad at first glance, but this is the Sox 60-million-dollar clean up hitter.

Jermaine Dye, after tearing through the AL (and NL for the matter) during the first half, continues to do so as his July numbers would indicate. JD is batting 351 with 27 hits, 7 doubles and 6 homers effectively slugging 675. JD walked 9 times in 77 ABs, while not a great K/BB rate, it becomes noteworthy considering the suckfest batting directly in front of him.

While Crede, Anderson and Iguchi are getting on base, Thome and PK have done little to produce, unless a pop out in foul territory counts for something other than an out and a wated opportunity.

When an offense is struggling to get men on base, move the runners in to scoring position, provide hits in RBI situations, all to SCORE RUNS - would it hurt to swap Thome and Dye in the order? Maybe shuffle things up a bit in the middle to try to leverage the fact that Jermaine Dye is one of the most productive hitters in all of baseball while PK and Thome continue to struggle?

Maybe move the order around a little like this:

Pods
Gooch
Dye
Thome
PK
AJ
Crede
Anderson
Uribe

While Ozzie likes to platoon Cintron/Uribe/Iguchi, Anderson/Mackowiak, Podsednik/Ozuna, AJ/Alomar, why is he so incessantly stubborn with his batting order??

Let's hope this all changes starting Friday in Baltimore, but since we're facing Bedard in the opener, I think we'll have to wait until Saturday. Regardless of how many times guys are walking or what the lineup looks like, we need a nice stretch to get the team going. Last year, the Sox swept Baltimore right after the break. I flashback wouldn't be so bad...

GO SOX!!! The season's not over yet!

JohnBasedowYoda
07-27-2006, 12:24 PM
solid post, i'm all for changing it up in the order a bit.

Blueprint1
07-27-2006, 12:34 PM
I am not sure if Ozzie will change the order any time soon. Remember how long it took him to change it last year? I think that moving Dye into the 3 spot is a great idea right now.

Iwritecode
07-27-2006, 12:41 PM
Thome, who started the year with a staggering OPS, walking seemingly twice a game and homering at least twice a series, has fallen off the map. In August, Thome is batting 296, but his OBP fell to a Wee-Willie-esk 352. He has only walked 7 times in 81 at-bats while whiffing a mind-numbing 23 times which works out to a strikeout once every four ABs. That's just plain bad.


I haven't had a chance to watch a whole lot of games lately but the few that I have seen have had Thome striking out looking on a full-count "strike" that's out of the zone. Has this been happening a lot lately or is it just me?

DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 01:01 PM
I haven't had a chance to watch a whole lot of games lately but the few that I have seen have had Thome striking out looking on a full-count "strike" that's out of the zone. Has this been happening a lot lately or is it just me?

I haven't noticed what you mentioned as much as I noticed Thome swinging at a down and away breaking pitch... stepping out of the box and asking the ump if it was a strike, nodding his head, the proceding to take the exact same pitch for strike 3.

hold2dibber
07-27-2006, 01:17 PM
Thome, who started the year with a staggering OPS, walking seemingly twice a game and homering at least twice a series, has fallen off the map. In August, Thome is batting 296, but his OBP fell to a Wee-Willie-esk 352. He has only walked 7 times in 81 at-bats while whiffing a mind-numbing 23 times which works out to a strikeout once every four ABs. That's just plain bad.

Paul Konerko has just been bad at everything this month. Evidentially, PK saved his annual April/May craptacular for August. This month, he is batting 243 with a 316 on-base. He has taken just 8 walks in 70 at-bats while striking out an alarming 13 times in the same stretch. 10 of his 17 August hits went for singles with 1 double and 6 homers. This equates to a 514 slugging, not bad at first glance, but this is the Sox 60-million-dollar clean up hitter.

Great post. I agree with just about everything you said, except that I don't view Thome's or Konerko's strike-out rates during July to be problematic (Thome's 28% strike out rate is consistent with his 29% career strike out rate and Konerko's 13 Ks in 70 ABs translates to 111 over 600 ABs, which is a little higher than his career number, but not alarming).

I think it is only a matter of time before PK and Thome get righted. They're both too good to both continue in such a funk. The Sox clearly need production out of those guys to win (although starting pitching is where they most need improvement).

DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 01:22 PM
Great post. I agree with just about everything you said, except that I don't view Thome's or Konerko's strike-out rates during July to be problematic (Thome's 28% strike out rate is consistent with his 29% career strike out rate and Konerko's 13 Ks in 70 ABs translates to 111 over 600 ABs, which is a little higher than his career number, but not alarming).

I think it is only a matter of time before PK and Thome get righted. They're both too good to both continue in such a funk. The Sox clearly need production out of those guys to win (although starting pitching is where they most need improvement).

I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll mention it here too since its relevant, but if you move Dye to the 3-hole, and bump Thome and PK down, then you put two of the slowest men in the baseball hitting in front of two doubles hitters. If Thome walks or PK singles, you are asking Thome and PK to score from first on a Crede or AJ double. The thought of Thome or Slownerko trying to score from first on a double really scares me.

I guess Ozzie and Greg Walker are expecting their guys to get the job done instead of being proactive and making a change. Early in the season, we saw what these guys can do when they are on. But, right now they are not even close. Something's gotta give.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 01:24 PM
Great post. I agree with just about everything you said, except that I don't view Thome's or Konerko's strike-out rates during July to be problematic (Thome's 28% strike out rate is consistent with his 29% career strike out rate and Konerko's 13 Ks in 70 ABs translates to 111 over 600 ABs, which is a little higher than his career number, but not alarming).

I think it is only a matter of time before PK and Thome get righted. They're both too good to both continue in such a funk. The Sox clearly need production out of those guys to win (although starting pitching is where they most need improvement).While people have loved to jump on Paulie for his annual month-long slump, it's actually pretty commonplace for power hitters. And as amazing as it was to watch the synergy in the 3-4-5 spots earlier in the season, the same logic dictates that when one of the three goes bad he tends to drag the others down with him.

The Sox eschewed the Ozzieball offense that made them successful last year and became very dependant on these three guys. They are now reaping what they've sown. As the 3-4-5 hitters go, so go the White Sox, and lately they haven't been going anywhere.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2006, 01:27 PM
The Sox have the best 3-4-5 in baseball, but you'll have to look beyond July's results to support this. It has been an abismal July for Thome and Konerko.

Thome, who started the year with a staggering OPS, walking seemingly twice a game and homering at least twice a series, has fallen off the map. In August, Thome is batting 296, but his OBP fell to a Wee-Willie-esk 352. He has only walked 7 times in 81 at-bats while whiffing a mind-numbing 23 times which works out to a strikeout once every four ABs. That's just plain bad.

Paul Konerko has just been bad at everything this month. Evidentially, PK saved his annual April/May craptacular for August. This month, he is batting 243 with a 316 on-base. He has taken just 8 walks in 70 at-bats while striking out an alarming 13 times in the same stretch. 10 of his 17 August hits went for singles with 1 double and 6 homers. This equates to a 514 slugging, not bad at first glance, but this is the Sox 60-million-dollar clean up hitter.

Jermaine Dye, after tearing through the AL (and NL for the matter) during the first half, continues to do so as his July numbers would indicate. JD is batting 351 with 27 hits, 7 doubles and 6 homers effectively slugging 675. JD walked 9 times in 77 ABs, while not a great K/BB rate, it becomes noteworthy considering the suckfest batting directly in front of him.

While Crede, Anderson and Iguchi are getting on base, Thome and PK have done little to produce, unless a pop out in foul territory counts for something other than an out and a wated opportunity.

When an offense is struggling to get men on base, move the runners in to scoring position, provide hits in RBI situations, all to SCORE RUNS - would it hurt to swap Thome and Dye in the order? Maybe shuffle things up a bit in the middle to try to leverage the fact that Jermaine Dye is one of the most productive hitters in all of baseball while PK and Thome continue to struggle?

Maybe move the order around a little like this:

Pods
Gooch
Dye
Thome
PK
AJ
Crede
Anderson
Uribe

While Ozzie likes to platoon Cintron/Uribe/Iguchi, Anderson/Mackowiak, Podsednik/Ozuna, AJ/Alomar, why is he so incessantly stubborn with his batting order??

Let's hope this all changes starting Friday in Baltimore, but since we're facing Bedard in the opener, I think we'll have to wait until Saturday. Regardless of how many times guys are walking or what the lineup looks like, we need a nice stretch to get the team going. Last year, the Sox swept Baltimore right after the break. I flashback wouldn't be so bad...

GO SOX!!! The season's not over yet!

I like the post. However you say August a few times when I think you mean July...unless you think that next month will be a repeat of this crapfest (which if so I may hibernate til Bears season).

I think one of Thome's biggest problems is he has struggled all year against lefties and it seems like he's faced some pretty nasty ones both sp and out of the pen this month...moreso than before.

I would move him down to 5th against lefties.

DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 01:30 PM
I like the post. However you say August a few times when I think you mean July...unless you think that next month will be a repeat of this crapfest (which if so I may hibernate til Bears season).

I think one of Thome's biggest problems is he has struggled all year against lefties and it seems like he's faced some pretty nasty ones both sp and out of the pen this month...moreso than before.

I would move him down to 5th against lefties.

Yea I noticed that after I posted it. Was too lazy after all those stats to want to go back and edit the typos... :nuts:

Gavin
07-27-2006, 02:11 PM
I do think that Thome has been absolutely awful lately with full counts. Off the top of my head I can probably name at least a few times in the last week or so when he's ended the inning looking at the third strike.

Thome just doesn't seem to be turning good counts (3-0, 3-1, especially) into walks and strikes out more noticably than others given the same situation.

maurice
07-27-2006, 02:29 PM
Pods - .216
Iguchi - .308
Thome - .227
Konerko - .205
Dye - .325
AJ - .158
Crede - .308
Uribe - .306
Anderson - .290

IMO, the problem with Konerko & Thome is their attempts to hit a HR in every AB, regardless of the situation. (For example, in 43 PA since the ASB, Konerko has 4 HR, but 0 other extra-base hits, 8 Ks, 4 BB, and only 4 1B.) Swinging for the fences is fine when there're 2 outs and nobody on in the 3rd inning and a 3-1 count, but infuriating when there's a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, or with RiSP late in a close game with an 0-2 count, or when we need baserunners late and down by 5 runs.

Dear Jim & Paulie, HR are great, but middle-of-the-order hitters really can help their team win games with walks, singles, and SFs too . . . especially when the situation calls for it.

INSox56
07-27-2006, 02:57 PM
Not only in the 345, but in our entire lineup, I don't see the ability to really WORK a count. Usually a team has one or two guys who can really work a pitcher, even if they get an out, they allow the other hitters to see all the pitches and/or see them just for themselves. Working pitchers seems like it hasn't happened for anyone on this team for a long long time.

hold2dibber
07-27-2006, 03:25 PM
Not only in the 345, but in our entire lineup, I don't see the ability to really WORK a count. Usually a team has one or two guys who can really work a pitcher, even if they get an out, they allow the other hitters to see all the pitches and/or see them just for themselves. Working pitchers seems like it hasn't happened for anyone on this team for a long long time.

Thome's pretty good at working the count and Iguchi is okay. I also think Pods and PK are decent (both much improved -- until lately -- this year). Last year the Sox were really bad in that department.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 04:03 PM
Thome's pretty good at working the count and Iguchi is okay. I also think Pods and PK are decent (both much improved -- until lately -- this year). Last year the Sox were really bad in that department.Pods is averaging more than 4 pitches per PA. That's pretty high.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2006, 04:19 PM
Dear Jim & Paulie, HR are great, but middle-of-the-order hitters really can help their team win games with walks, singles, and SFs too . . . especially when the situation calls for it.

I would love to see Thome lay down a bunt with a runner on third and two outs....with that stupid shift they put on he could walk to first and we'd score a run. Usually I don't mind him swinging b/c he can hit a hr or double any swing, but when it means a run and he's slumping as much as he is I don't know why he wouldn't try this.