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View Full Version : Who are the "untouchables" on our ML roster?


Thome25
07-26-2006, 07:27 PM
This season is "taking on water" like a sinking ship. We need to find a way to plug up the holes on this team and fast. I don't think the season is lost. There is still 2 months to go. I still have hope and I will believe in this team until they become mathmatically eliminated. (which I don't think will happen.)

I think a shakeup is in order before the July 31st trade deadline. As of this moment (they could still turn it around.) this team is playing like so many of the other teams we've seen in the past that looks good on paper but is playing like they have bad chemistry. I'm not saying we should go out and have a "fire sale" either.

With that said, who are your "untouchables" at the trade deadline?

Mine are:

Pitchers:
McCarthy
Garland
Contreras
Jenks
Macdougal
Thornton

Position Players:
Crede
Konerko
Thome
Iguchi

QCIASOXFAN
07-26-2006, 07:32 PM
You would honestly not care if A.J. or Dye was traded?

Crede_Fan
07-26-2006, 07:38 PM
You would honestly not care if A.J. or Dye was traded?

I know I for one would. Add Mark to that list too.

whitesoxwilkes
07-26-2006, 07:43 PM
Position Players:

Konerko
Iguchi
Crede
JD
AJ
Thome
(pretty much all the starters)

Pitchers:

Contreras
Jenks
Thornton

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2006, 07:44 PM
Contreras
Garland
McCarthy
Jenks
MacDougal
Thornton

AJ
Dye
Crede
Anderson

And, yes, PK is not on this list.

fquaye149
07-26-2006, 07:45 PM
I know I for one would. Add Mark to that list too.
Buehrle's not likely to go b/c he's at a record low value-wise. not to mention he is still a homegrown hero no matter how bad his last few starts are.

however, as much as it pains me to say it (since buehrle is my favorite current Sox player)...it might be a SMART move to move him if his value ever gets higher.

I love that he knows how to PITCH (or KNEW how to pitch) but his stuff isn't impressive, he's looking at a pretty big payday soon, AND he clearly is crazy about the Cardinals.

I hope Mark returns to form soon, and I hope he never ever leaves the Sox, but that might not be practical, so I would understand if Kenny maximizes his value.

I think right now the absolutely untouchables include everyone from our everyday lineup but Podsednik and POSSIBLY Uribe and Anderson (though that would defeat the "grinder" and "defense" philosophy Kenny champions. I think Anderson's probably more untouchable than Uribe, mostly because his ceiling is very high and he's starting to come into his own.

Starting pitchers, Contreras is clearly untouchable, as is Garland, and, as discussed earlier, probably Buehrle. Garcia and Vazquez could be packing their bags any moment.

Out of the pen I think it's Jenks, McCarthy (though Kenny may well prove me wrong, I think his value is WAY WAY too high to trade for the rentals that we're in the mix for), Cotts, Thornton, McDougall, and perhaps Riske.

I think all our relievers are probably untouchable since there's no one really expendable out of there, plus no one's costing us a ton of money with a contract coming up.

Off the bench, I doubt Ozuna, Cintron or Mackowiack would go, although if anyone DOES go, it'd probably be Mack, to make room for whoever came in to be backup CF. It's unlikely that any of them would be traded, though, no matter how expendable since bench players are rarely traded.

I really don't see anyone from the MLB roster going anywhere, for various reasons, actually, besides MAYBE Podsednik or Uribe... MAYBE. But even that's highly unlikely. Garcia or Vazquez are the only players I wouldn't be surprised to be saying goodbye too (although, I don't know that I would support the move)

JB98
07-26-2006, 07:45 PM
Our entire starting lineup. The entire rotation except for Vazquez. Jenks, McCarthy, Thornton and Cotts from the bullpen.

QCIASOXFAN
07-26-2006, 07:50 PM
AJ
Dye
Crede
Anderson

And, yes, PK is not on this list. This might be a stupid question, but why would you keep B.A. and get rid of argueably our best player?

kevingrt
07-26-2006, 07:51 PM
Our entire starting lineup. The entire rotation except for Vazquez. Jenks, McCarthy, Thornton and Cotts from the bullpen.

I agree with you totally. Nice thought JB. We can win with this team, we just gotta do it!

NardiWasHere
07-26-2006, 07:54 PM
Untouchable= Riske,Podsednik

Everyone else is fair game.

JB98
07-26-2006, 07:56 PM
I agree with you totally. Nice thought JB. We can win with this team, we just gotta do it!

We have all the pieces we need. It's time to stop talking about potential and start playing to it. I know it sounds like a broken record because I've stated it in four different threads, but I think there's a lot of people posting tonight advocating change for the sake of change. I personally think that's a losing philosophy.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2006, 07:58 PM
This might be a stupid question, but why would you keep B.A. and get rid of argueably our best player?

I think BA is a valuable piece as a starter or a 4th outfielder if someone else is brought in. Not only now, but as a future piece. I would take him over Pods.

PK is overrated (and I know that is going to get me into trouble). Double-plays, pop-ups, and solo home runs along with being the slowest guy in the league does not make him the "best player". Now, none of us truly know his value in the clubhouse, and if it is actually really high, then he is untouchable, but not for his onfield play. He doesn't have a presence on the field, and edge, if you will.

Obviously the player coming here in return for PK would have to be of equal value, maybe even a 4-tool player.

JB98
07-26-2006, 08:00 PM
I think BA is a valuable piece as a starter or a 4th outfielder if someone else is brought in. Not only now, but as a future piece. I would take him over Pods.

PK is overrated (and I know that is going to get me into trouble). Double-plays, pop-ups, and solo home runs along with being the slowest guy in the league does not make him the "best player". Now, none of us truly know his value in the clubhouse, and if it is actually really high, then he is untouchable, but not for his onfield play. He doesn't have a presence on the field, and edge, if you will.

Obviously the player coming here in return for PK would have to be of equal value, maybe even a 4-tool player.

I think Sox management would disagree with you, and they get the deciding vote. They didn't give him all that money for no good reason.

chisoxfanatic
07-26-2006, 08:02 PM
You would honestly not care if A.J. or Dye was traded?

Dye is the LAST person on this team I would want to have traded.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2006, 08:03 PM
I think Sox management would disagree with you, and they get the deciding vote. They didn't give him all that money for no good reason.

Yes, he is a fan favorite and a star that draws fans. As an economic decision, it was a smart one to resign him.

I just don't see him being that valuable to the play of the team that he needs to be classified as an "untouchable." That said, the player returning would have to be of great value.

JB98
07-26-2006, 08:05 PM
Yes, he is a fan favorite and a star that draws fans. As an economic decision, it was a smart one to resign him.

I just don't see him being that valuable to the play of the team that he needs to be classified as an "untouchable." That said, the player returining would have to be of great value.

Paulie was not resigned because he is a fan favorite. He was resigned because he drove in 21 runs in 12 postseason games. He was MONEY in the playoffs.

Do you honestly believe people go to the Cell to watch Paul Konerko play? C'mon now. Paulie has been here for several years, and our stadium was half empty before we started winning.

zmz723
07-26-2006, 08:08 PM
Untouchable= Riske,Podsednik

Everyone else is fair game.

:?:

fquaye149
07-26-2006, 08:12 PM
He was resigned because he drove in 21 runs in 12 postseason games. He was MONEY in the playoffs.

Do you honestly believe people go to the Cell to watch Paul Konerko play? C'mon now. Paulie has been here for several years, and our stadium was half empty before we started winning.

couple things

a.) I HOPE that's not why they resigned him. I hope they resigned him because they thought he is able to put up solid to very solid numbers over the course of a season (he seems to be able to)

b.) I don't believe people go to the Cell to watch Paulie play and Paulie alone play. But I know that a lot of fans (and I think you're one of them) really really really like Paul Konerko. And I think they would be upset if he were traded. Look how much hand wringing we get over Rowand. No one's "boycotting" the sox b/c of Crash being gone, but if a team makes it their business to trade away fan favorites, they will inspire a more negative sentiment among their fanbases and if they start losing, that negative sentiment grows and translates into less ticket sales. People hold grudges. And trading Paulie away, while not exactly suicide, wouldn't endear the front office to Southside fans.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2006, 08:15 PM
Paulie was not resigned because he is a fan favorite. He was resigned because he drove in 21 runs in 12 postseason games. He was MONEY in the playoffs.

Do you honestly believe people go to the Cell to watch Paul Konerko play? C'mon now. Paulie has been here for several years, and our stadium was half empty before we started winning.

He was money in the playoffs - and there is no denying that. It was his play in the playoffs that helped the team win and thus season tickets to sold out and individual tickets sold at a record pace.

However, he hit 40 home runs last year and drove in only 100 on the dot in the regular season. Not many RBIs outside of the longball.

Can you imagine the outcrys last year if we had not resigned PK? Who would have been upset? Fans. I don't know that you would have lost people over it, but you would have upset your customers (assuming you didn't use his money on an upgrade).

I don't hear chants for Dye, AJ, Pods or even Frank when he was here, but I hear "Paulie" every game.

ChiSox80
07-26-2006, 08:15 PM
Pitchers:
Contreras unless it's for an Ervin Santana or Scott Kazmir type
Jenks
McCarthy unless we're flat-out ripping someone off (i.e.- gimme a real power pitcher just as young)
Thornton
MacDougal

Hitters:
Thome unless it's for someone close to his ability, but younger
Dye unless it's for someone close to his ability, but younger
Konerko unless it's for someone close to his ability, but younger
Crede
Anderson

JB98
07-26-2006, 08:17 PM
couple things

a.) I HOPE that's not why they resigned him. I hope they resigned him because they thought he is able to put up solid to very solid numbers over the course of a season (he seems to be able to)

b.) I don't believe people go to the Cell to watch Paulie play and Paulie alone play. But I know that a lot of fans (and I think you're one of them) really really really like Paul Konerko. And I think they would be upset if he were traded. Look how much hand wringing we get over Rowand. No one's "boycotting" the sox b/c of Crash being gone, but if a team makes it their business to trade away fan favorites, they will inspire a more negative sentiment among their fanbases and if they start losing, that negative sentiment grows and translates into less ticket sales. People hold grudges. And trading Paulie away, while not exactly suicide, wouldn't endear the front office to Southside fans.

It's no secret I'm a huge Konerko fan. Paulie has put up solid numbers his whole career, except for the bad year in 2003. Last postseason, he proved he is a money player. That's why the Sox were willing to pony up the cash to keep him. If we had lost in the playoffs last year, there's a good chance PK is somewhere else this year. It's not like the Sox didn't have options, not the least of which was retaining Frank at a reduced rate.

Honestly, do you think JR is afraid of upsetting this fan base?

ChiSox80
07-26-2006, 08:19 PM
Honestly, do you think JR is afraid of upsetting this fan base?

It's like no one remembers the amazing white flag trade.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2006, 08:19 PM
Honestly, do you think JR is afraid of upsetting this fan base?

After a world series and 31 sell-outs ... yes.

JB98
07-26-2006, 08:23 PM
He was money in the playoffs - and there is no denying that. It was his play in the playoffs that helped the team win and thus season tickets to sold out and individual tickets sold at a record pace.

However, he hit 40 home runs last year and drove in only 100 on the dot in the regular season. Not many RBIs outside of the longball.

Can you imagine the outcrys last year if we had not resigned PK? Who would have been upset? Fans. I don't know that you would have lost people over it, but you would have upset your customers (assuming you didn't use his money on an upgrade).

I don't hear chants for Dye, AJ, Pods or even Frank when he was here, but I hear "Paulie" every game.

JR's not afraid to upset his customers.

EDIT: FWIW, even if the Sox had not retained Paulie, I still would have kept my season tickets. And I'm a huge Konerko fan.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2006, 08:27 PM
JR's not afraid to upset his customers.

EDIT: FWIW, even if the Sox had not retained Paulie, I still would have kept my season tickets. And I'm a huge Konerko fan.

I think most people would have (myself included). However, how many Konerko jerseys and apparel have been sold? The decision was not all economic, but you can be more than sure it was factored into the decision to bring him back.

JB98
07-26-2006, 08:31 PM
I think most people would have (myself included). However, how many Konerko jerseys and apparel have been sold? The decision was not all economic, but you can be more than sure it was factored into the decision to bring him back.

Let's say Konerko doesn't drive in all those runs in the playoffs. If that doesn't happen, we probably don't win. If we don't win, JR doesn't figure he's going to get the big bump in attendance he got this year. Without that attendance bump, maybe he doesn't give PK $13 million a year or give the extensions to Contreras and Garland. PK probably walks, and one of those starters gets traded. At the end of the day, I just think it goes back to what happens on the field. That means a lot more than the marketing stuff.

0o0o0
07-26-2006, 08:35 PM
Untouchable= Riske,Podsednik

Everyone else is fair game.

Ha....wait, what? :unsure:

soxfanreggie
07-26-2006, 08:35 PM
Untouchables to me means they wouldn't be traded no matter what. Also, nobody is going to give us Pujols for Crede, so I'm not going that route.

Batters

Thome-he will give us great production this year and next. Never knew til I looked at his stats that he hits a home run essentially once every 4 hits.
Dye-great production, solid defense
Gooch-I don't think there's anyone we can bring in at 2B that would really be an upgrade without mortgaging the future to get that player.

Pitchers
Contreras
Garland
Cotts (good lefty reliever, still developing)
Thornton (see Cotts, we could have to of the best lefty relievers in the game when these guys develop)
Jenks (he's showing his worth, I can see him dominate for us for a while)

If we can get someone good for McCarthy that we can sign long-term, I see no problem in trading him.

StatHead21
07-26-2006, 08:39 PM
Untouchable= Riske,Podsednik

Everyone else is fair game.
hahahahaha I hope thats supposed to be teal.

To me no one is untouchible if you can get get something better for them, but theres few players on the roster that offer that.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-26-2006, 08:40 PM
Let's say Konerko doesn't drive in all those runs in the playoffs. If that doesn't happen, we probably don't win. If we don't win, JR doesn't figure he's going to get the big bump in attendance he got this year. Without that attendance bump, maybe he doesn't give PK $13 million a year or give the extensions to Contreras and Garland. PK probably walks, and one of those starters gets traded. At the end of the day, I just think it goes back to what happens on the field. That means a lot more than the marketing stuff.

Look at my first paragraph in post #19. Same argument.

This all goes back to upgrading the team. If it is truely what happens on the field, and there is an upgrade that we could get for him in a trade, upgrade.

He was signed for fan reasons, playoff performance and the fact that he was the top offensive free agent available last year. With trades, it is a different animal at this point and he should be avialable, so we can win in 2006 and fill the seats in 2007!!

fquaye149
07-26-2006, 08:40 PM
JR's not afraid to upset his customers.

EDIT: FWIW, even if the Sox had not retained Paulie, I still would have kept my season tickets. And I'm a huge Konerko fan.

No, you're right he's not afraid to.

I'm not afraid to take 3 shots at bar-time when I have to be up at 9 the next day....

but that don't mean it's smart to

eurotrash35
07-26-2006, 08:52 PM
nobody. let's have a firesale and get some great young talent like we did in '97. :cool:










kidding

soxfanatlanta
07-26-2006, 08:54 PM
With JR at the helm

http://www.cinematrix.hu/fajlok/hirek/kepek/Untouchables.jpg

"Nobody is untouchable."

SluggersAway
07-26-2006, 09:05 PM
I just wonder where we would be if we kept the 2005 World Champion team intact (minus a little tinkering) for this year. There was a ton of talk about how we "couldn't" standstill and "had" to get better. But, this team doesn't look too good at the moment. You can't discount team chemistry and the swagger of a champion at every position.

getonbckthr
07-26-2006, 09:18 PM
Untouchable is not in my vocabulary. If the deal makes this team better and helps us get closer to the prize they are available. No matter if it is PK or Thome or Gload or Riske. As far as Mccarthy goes we should trade him there is no guarentee in him being as good as advertised (Ruffcorn, Munoz, Rausch).

MVP
07-26-2006, 09:58 PM
There are no untradeables on this team. If the deal is right and makes sense I wouldn't have a problem trading any of them.

viagracat
07-26-2006, 11:06 PM
Gooch, Thome, PK, Dye, Crede, JC, Garland, Buehrle (still), Jenks, McCarthy and Thornton.

russ99
07-26-2006, 11:16 PM
A good point on Pods:

If he's healthy and playing well, few players in the majors can disrupt a team and a unnerve pitcher as well. Did everyone forget what he did last year for us before he got hurt?

If he's injured and/or has lost a step, what player(s) of value can the Sox realistically get for him?

Sure, this is a bit of a fanboy statement, but what Pods can give the Sox is a lot more than they can get for him on the trade market.

Maybe he should be the one to go on the DL to get his wheels back, especially if the Sox can acquire another defensive outfielder.

Jjav829
07-26-2006, 11:18 PM
We have no untouchables if you're going to be strict about the use of the word. Players like Pujols, Wright and Liriano are untouchable. We don't really have anyone like that.

Buehrle is a good pitcher, but if Terry Ryan offered Santana for Buehrle, that's a no-brainer. Konerko is a very good player, but he'd be gone in a blink of an eye for Pujols. Of course those teams wouldn't do those deals, but you get the point. If you'd trade them for somebody, they can't be considered untouchable.

samram
07-26-2006, 11:22 PM
Untouchable= Riske,Podsednik

Everyone else is fair game.

Uh, no. Pods is very overrated by the Sox fan base. Riske is just a middle reliever- no such thing as an untouchable middle reliever.

kwolf68
07-26-2006, 11:45 PM
NONE...If someone wants ANY PLAYER we got, we should listen.

fquaye149
07-27-2006, 12:43 AM
We have no untouchables if you're going to be strict about the use of the word. Players like Pujols, Wright and Liriano are untouchable. We don't really have anyone like that.

Buehrle is a good pitcher, but if Terry Ryan offered Santana for Buehrle, that's a no-brainer. Konerko is a very good player, but he'd be gone in a blink of an eye for Pujols. Of course those teams wouldn't do those deals, but you get the point. If you'd trade them for somebody, they can't be considered untouchable.

oh baloney...this is silly. You think if Jockety offered Terri Ryan Pujols and cash for Liriano, Ryan would say "no, we don't want Pujols, Liriano's untouchable"?

Any player could be had if the right offer were made. If KW offered Jockety our entire pitching staff, salary paid, for Pujols, it would be done.

Then Kenny could offer our entire lineup, salary paid, for Santana and Liriano and it would be done.

No player is untouchable if you're going to make crazy trade offers. Crede's not going anywhere no matter what. Garland's not going anywhere no matter what. Jenks is not going anywhere no matter what.

Yes if you offer Oswalt or Jered Weaver or Felix Rodriguez or Carl Crawford for them, KW would do it. But no one is going to offer that.

StatHead21
07-27-2006, 12:49 AM
Uh, no. Pods is very overrated by the Sox fan base. Riske is just a middle reliever- no such thing as an untouchable middle reliever.

Pods is hanging by a thread.

Although the White Sox women's fan base would plummet...

slobes
07-27-2006, 12:53 AM
Our entire starting lineup. The entire rotation except for Vazquez. Jenks, McCarthy, Thornton and Cotts from the bullpen.

I agree except for the fact that I could see Pods given the heave-ho

Jjav829
07-27-2006, 01:00 AM
oh baloney...this is silly. You think if Jockety offered Terri Ryan Pujols and cash for Liriano, Ryan would say "no, we don't want Pujols, Liriano's untouchable"?

Any player could be had if the right offer were made. If KW offered Jockety our entire pitching staff, salary paid, for Pujols, it would be done.

Then Kenny could offer our entire lineup, salary paid, for Santana and Liriano and it would be done.

No player is untouchable if you're going to make crazy trade offers. Crede's not going anywhere no matter what. Garland's not going anywhere no matter what. Jenks is not going anywhere no matter what.

Yes if you offer Oswalt or Jered Weaver or Felix Rodriguez or Carl Crawford for them, KW would do it. But no one is going to offer that.

Well then the proper term isn't untouchable. The question should be something more along the lines of "Who are the players that realistically won't be traded anytime soon on our ML roster?" :tongue:

fquaye149
07-27-2006, 01:30 AM
Well then the proper term isn't untouchable. The question should be something more along the lines of "Who are the players that realistically won't be traded anytime soon on our ML roster?" :tongue:

Or in other words: untouchable:cool:

For instance in 2004 Kenny thought Jeremy Reed was untouchable until he found out he could get Freddy Garcia for him.

Josh Fields is untouchable right now (most likely) b/c Kenny doesn't think he can get, say, Roy Halladay for him. I bet if Kenny thought he could get Halladay, it would be pretty soon Fields would be a Blue Jay

CYGarland20
07-27-2006, 02:02 AM
Gooch, Thome, PK, Dye, Crede, JC, Garland, Buehrle (still), Jenks, McCarthy and Thornton.Everyone on that list except McCarthy & Gooch, and i'd add AJ............ I'd trade McCarthy in a heartbeat if we can get a star player in return that helps us now, especially a pitcher, and we can lock up for a few years. As for Gooch, he is too inconsistent for me, especially for a #2 hitter

KyWhiSoxFan
07-27-2006, 08:55 AM
Gone from this year's roster in 2007:
Buerhle -- we'll use the $9m to get someone else
Garcia -- we'll use the $10m to get someone else
Pods -- not worth whatever we're paying him
Vasquez -- not worth $7m a year

fquaye149
07-27-2006, 10:42 AM
Gone from this year's roster in 2007:
Buerhle -- we'll use the $9m to get someone else
Garcia -- we'll use the $10m to get someone else
Pods -- not worth whatever we're paying him
Vasquez -- not worth $7m a year

I don't know that you can get pitching for 9m or 10m. I really don't.

Now, does that mean we should keep Buehrle and Garcia? I don't know...but their $$$ is a ****ing bargain, to be quite honest...you can't get a free agent for that. too bad they're pitching poorly

KyWhiSoxFan
07-27-2006, 02:21 PM
I don't know that you can get pitching for 9m or 10m. I really don't.

Now, does that mean we should keep Buehrle and Garcia? I don't know...but their $$$ is a ****ing bargain, to be quite honest...you can't get a free agent for that. too bad they're pitching poorly

If you eliminate the salaries of Garcia, Buehrle, and Vasquez, you could pay two FA pitchers about $15m each, to go with Contreras, Garland, and McCarthy.

DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 02:25 PM
The concept of this thread alarms me as a Sox fan. Are some of us actually considering who could be sold off??

PalehosePlanet
07-27-2006, 02:44 PM
Dye is the LAST person on this team I would want to have traded.

I agree. BTW: What's the status on his contract? Is there a player or management option, or no option at all and he simply walks at the end of the year? I remember 2 years 9 million back when he signed but no particulars.

As far as keepers/untouchables go, I'm a little disappointed that everyone wants to ditch Buehrle. I'm thinking that we should try and lock him up now while he's feeling a bit humbled. Plenty of great players have had droughts; I personally wouldn't throw away a TRUE White Sox player for a crappy month.

the gooch
07-27-2006, 03:26 PM
I agree. BTW: What's the status on his contract? Is there a player or management option, or no option at all and he simply walks at the end of the year? I remember 2 years 9 million back when he signed but no particulars.

As far as keepers/untouchables go, I'm a little disappointed that everyone wants to ditch Buehrle. I'm thinking that we should try and lock him up now while he's feeling a bit humbled. Plenty of great players have had droughts; I personally wouldn't throw away a TRUE White Sox player for a crappy month.The Sox have an option on Dye for 2007 at around $6M.

Its silly to talk about all this untouchable stuff for the deadline.
For the offseason, Dye is the Second-to-Last guy I want to see traded.

Number one is AJ. We have nobody to fill in for him. Most teams wouldnt want to touch him anyway. He says the right things, he does the right things, and he plays the right way.

As a side note, if you want to eliminate the "controversial" and "always in the middle of things" talk about AJ, name him captain of the White Sox along with/ instead of Paulie.

DaleJRFan
07-27-2006, 03:28 PM
I agree. BTW: What's the status on his contract? Is there a player or management option, or no option at all and he simply walks at the end of the year? I remember 2 years 9 million back when he signed but no particulars.

As far as keepers/untouchables go, I'm a little disappointed that everyone wants to ditch Buehrle. I'm thinking that we should try and lock him up now while he's feeling a bit humbled. Plenty of great players have had droughts; I personally wouldn't throw away a TRUE White Sox player for a crappy month.

I believe it is a 5 or 6 million dollar team option for 2007. Either way, its a bargain!