PDA

View Full Version : *Official* Trade deadline rumors thread


Pages : [1] 2

Thome25
07-26-2006, 06:34 AM
KW filled two holes on this team and I honestly think he's done dealing in '06. Our biggest concerns were at backup catcher and right-handed relief help and KW did a great job of meeting both of those needs.

I'm going out on a limb here but, KW is NOT going to trade for Soriano. I know, I know there's "super threads" on here stating the exact opposite but, I'm sticking to my gut feeling and that is Soriano will not be wearing a White Sox uniform.

We could probably use another starter, but I don't think there is any appealing options out there and with the ones that are out there, the asking price is too high and/or teams aren't willing to deal with the White Sox.

I think all of these Soriano rumors are just one big bluff by Bowden and KW to drive up the price tag on Soriano. Bowden used his buddies at ESPN to get this bluff across.

Now, if I'm wrong and Soriano does land with the White Sox. I'll admit that I was wrong. I'll also be glad to have a hitter the caliber of Soriano on our Sox. But, as I said I think KW is done making any more deals.

What do you think? GO SOX!!!!! BEAT THOSE TWINS!!!!

Deuce
07-26-2006, 07:33 AM
Too early to tell. The "July Slide" may prompt him to make a move he wouldn't have if we were still neck and neck with the Tigers. I doubt it, but with KW, you never know until you know.

BeviBall!
07-26-2006, 07:58 AM
I hope he's not done trying.

twsoxfan5
07-26-2006, 08:20 AM
According to a couple of people I know at ESPN there is a deal on the table that does not include McCarthy, Fields, Owens, or Sweeney and it is up to the Nationals if they want to except it. I would not put anything past Kenny and you honestly never know what he is going to do. IMO he has to do something to shake up this stagnant team a little bit.

eriqjaffe
07-26-2006, 08:25 AM
Well, today is the last Wednesday before the deadline...

samram
07-26-2006, 08:28 AM
According to a couple of people I know at ESPN there is a deal on the table that does not include McCarthy, Fields, Owens, or Sweeney and it is up to the Nationals if they want to except it. I would not put anything past Kenny and you honestly never know what he is going to do. IMO he has to do something to shake up this stagnant team a little bit.
Well, if it's up to the Nationals to accept a deal that doesn't include any top prospects, then I think I know their answer.

As for other deals, there's no way KW is planning on standing pat- that doesn't mean a deal will get done, but he's not done trying.

dickallen15
07-26-2006, 08:48 AM
I don't think Soriano is coming to the Sox, but I do think there will be another deal.

Pierzynski 12
07-26-2006, 08:49 AM
Apparently he's not done. Nice try though.

Jaffar
07-26-2006, 08:51 AM
Well, today is the last Wednesday before the deadline...

I was thinking the same thing. If our pitchers don't pitch better (although some have pitched better recently) for the rest of the season then it really won't matter if KW does anything else.

Iguana775
07-26-2006, 08:57 AM
Well, if it's up to the Nationals to accept a deal that doesn't include any top prospects, then I think I know their answer.

As for other deals, there's no KW is planning on standing pat- that doesn't mean a deal will get done, but he's not done trying.

Well, getting something for Soriano now is better than nothing when he leaves via FA.

patbooyah
07-26-2006, 08:59 AM
i think there should be a big "i think" at the beginning of your thread title. :cool:

samram
07-26-2006, 09:00 AM
Well, getting something for Soriano now is better than nothing when he leaves via FA.

Yeah, but they can get top prospects, I would think, unless the trade market for rentals has just completely bottomed out.

The Immigrant
07-26-2006, 09:04 AM
Yeah, but they can get top prospects, I would think, unless the trade market for rentals has just completely bottomed out.

"I think" Iguana's point is that everyone is balking at Bowden's outrageous demand of "your 2 top prospects plus," and in the end he may have no choice but to take much less or get nothing when Soriano walks after the season. We have some expendable players and a deep farm system, and are better suited to make such a deal than any other team (except perhaps the Angels).

soxfan13
07-26-2006, 10:38 AM
I heard a deal for Soriano was imminent!!!

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-26-2006, 10:44 AM
Yesterday before the game, they said on CSN that there were currently 3 seperate deals being discussed. Doesn't mean anything will go down, but He's definitly not done trying.

Ol' No. 2
07-26-2006, 10:49 AM
I think Kenny's probably done, but it won't be for lack of trying. No AL team is going to want to help the Sox, so any deal pretty much has to be with NL teams. That severely limits the possibilities.

UofCSoxFan
07-26-2006, 11:11 AM
Our biggest concerns were at backup catcher and right-handed relief help and KW did a great job of meeting both of those needs.


Backup catcher should never be one of your biggest concerns. I like getting Sandy, but this team obviously STILL has room to improve.

MVP
07-26-2006, 11:24 AM
Yesterday before the game, they said on CSN that there were currently 3 seperate deals being discussed. Doesn't mean anything will go down, but He's definitly not done trying.

I heard the same thing. I don't think that KW is done yet. I'm not saying that he'll acquire Soriano but I think he'll make at least one more move and I think it could involve Vazquez.

By the way, has anyone heard if anyone at all has expressed any interest in either Pollite or Widger?

Chicken Dinner
07-26-2006, 11:38 AM
I'd like to see a solid backup outfielder that can play right and left field. Ozuna and Gload are very poor outfielders. Kind of makes you miss Borchard, right up until you see Thornton warming in the pen. That was a KW steal.

AJTrenkle
07-26-2006, 11:40 AM
I don't know if we should make any deals, and they probably aren't needed. The one trade I would like to see is internal, swap Vazquez for McCarthy in their roles.

I have a lengthy post on my site below about this, but in short there is no one on the market who is a massive upgrade, and the prices on the market seem to be too high right now.

Britt Burns
07-26-2006, 11:54 AM
Kind of makes you miss Borchard

Never!!!!!

You are right, that was an absolute steal. Thornton could be closing for 3/4ths or more of the teams in the majors right now, with the way he has been throwing. I love the way our pen is shaping up, not just for this year but for the next few. They are young, hard throwing, cheap, and there is a good lefty/righty, vet/rookie mix. How about this pen for next year...

CL- Jenks R
RP- Thornton L
RP- MacDougal R
RP- Cotts L
RP- Riske R (is he a FA after the season?)
RP- Some combo of a vet/Tracey/Logan/etc.

enurb
07-26-2006, 11:55 AM
The Alomar acquisition is a step backward. This guy was bad even when he was good. He's 38 and has a weak bat. Widger was a grinder who could outhit Alomar lefthanded. Alomar's 300 ba over limited ABs won't last. 0 for 3 last night. More 0-fers to follow. Stick a fork in this guy.

McDougal looks good.

Soriano for Pods and Broadway (and/or Heath Phillips) would look good too.

We'll start winning again when/if Paulie gets his stroke back, with or without Soriano.

Credefan21
07-26-2006, 12:00 PM
I for one hope he isn't done making deals. This team could use a trade right now with some of the holes that have been in it lately. I don't see how anyone can say that this team doesn't need any help. We sure could use some better pitching that is for sure.

StatHead21
07-26-2006, 05:14 PM
If he's done I'm worried.

QCIASOXFAN
07-26-2006, 05:26 PM
If he's done I'm worried. No way is he done, after the game today I am convinced that Kenny is going to make one of those 3 deals happen.

SpartanSoxFan
07-26-2006, 05:34 PM
Buster Olney on ESPN just mentioned that Kenny Williams "is desperate to make a move to shake up the pitching staff" and added that talks may resurface with Oakland regarding Barry Zito...

Thoughts?

Methinks this is dead in the water since Billy Beane seems interested only in McCarthy, who KW won't trade.

MadetoOrta
07-26-2006, 05:37 PM
Dream on Billy Beane. Let's not compound our agony KW. If he'll take Charlie Haeger and the other Josh Fields. Please.

JermaineDye05
07-26-2006, 05:38 PM
this again..

I agree not gonna happen, I can't see it happening although I'm sure you're right Kenny is looking for pitching help but why do that when he can go within the organization...BMac

who care's we're getting Crazy Carl anyways

WhiteSox1983
07-26-2006, 05:38 PM
In the wise words of jay z, I tell buster... "We dont believe you, you need more people"

Argalarga
07-26-2006, 05:41 PM
McCarthy for Zito? Prospect for proven winner?

Yes, please!

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-26-2006, 05:42 PM
By the way, has anyone heard if anyone at all has expressed any interest in either Pollite or Widger?

I believe the Sox already released Politte. As for Widger, he's still ours, but He'll probably be released.

Argalarga
07-26-2006, 05:44 PM
If he's done making deals, then he's not trying hard enough. The word is that Zito is available. AFAIC, whoever we have to give up to get him is the cost of doing bidness.

HotelWhiteSox
07-26-2006, 05:56 PM
Why? We already have a great pitcher to put in the rotation, McCarthy. It's not like trading McCarthy for Zito would change that we'd lose our long reliever. And ideally (I know it doesn't work this way but...), Vazquez has been great for 4-5 innings and he'd be pitching less as a long reliever. This trade proposal seems like 'make something up to make it look like I'm working' material.

A. Cavatica
07-26-2006, 06:01 PM
By "shake up the pitching staff" he might have meant dump Vazquez (or another veteran) and move McCarthy into the rotation...

Mr. White Sox
07-26-2006, 06:01 PM
I'm just going to say this:

Think of the number of players associated with the White Sox in the past few days that have been traded to Chicago.
0

Now think of the number of players not associated with the White Sox that were acquired by the White Sox.
2

Food for thought.

DickAllen72
07-26-2006, 06:06 PM
I'm just going to say this:

Think of the number of players associated with the White Sox in the past few days that have been traded to Chicago.
0

Now think of the number of players not associated with the White Sox that were acquired by the White Sox.
2

Food for thought.

Does that mean we're getting Tejada or Ichiro??? (Sorry, didn't know if I should have used teal or deep pink)

twsoxfan5
07-26-2006, 06:31 PM
I heard this early in the day as well. I would not mind trading McCarthy for Zito, but I dont think it is going to happen. In the interview Olney said that it was pure speculation on his part when he spoke about this trade. His only backing was that both Beane and Williams are willing to make trades and both have things the other want.

Argalarga
07-26-2006, 06:31 PM
By "shake up the pitching staff" he might have meant dump Vazquez (or another veteran) and move McCarthy into the rotation...

Vazquez has little-to-no trade value. I say we move McCarthy for Zito and put Vazquez and his 4 good innings in McCarthy's role. I honestly don't get the love for McCarthy around here. Yes, he's a good prospect. But he's a prospect. Zito is a proven winner who would fit quite nicely on our staff.

HITMEN OF 77
07-26-2006, 06:38 PM
I honestly don't get the love for McCarthy around here.

I think the love for him is from last year when he pitched outstanding. I'd hate to see him traded for Zito. Now Vaz or Pods and prospect, yes.

MarySwiss
07-26-2006, 06:46 PM
Oh, for heaven's sake, people. It's ESPN!

(Slap!) Feel better now?

Mr. White Sox
07-26-2006, 07:06 PM
McCarthy: 53.0IP, 3.91 ERA, appx 5.50 K/9, 1.35 HR/9, 2.88 BB/9, 1.24 WHIP
Zito: 143.0IP, 3.52 ERA, 6.36 K/9, .94 HR/9, 3.96 BB/9, 1.35 WHIP

Small sample size for McCarthy, but still very similar numbers. Zito is also going to cost a king's ransom to keep after this year, and McCarthy is making the minimum for at least a couple more years.

This seems like a no-brainer to me, just like it would be a no-brainer to Beane to jump on this type of deal.

likeawarlord
07-26-2006, 07:18 PM
I honestly don't get the love for McCarthy around here. Yes, he's a good prospect. But he's a prospect. Zito is a proven winner who would fit quite nicely on our staff.

even if the proven winner's only going to stick around for 2 months?

infohawk
07-26-2006, 07:33 PM
While I was mowing the lawn just a few minutes ago I got to thinking about the pitching problems, the 2006 season and the future. While I'm not conceding anything yet, it may be the case that our horses just aren't going to click this year for various reasons -- not the least of which may be the innings logged during the long season last year. KW should pull the trigger if he can make a sensible trade(s) that is likely to help us this year without having to give up too much. If not, for the good of the franchise I'd just assume keep our best bargaining chips and use them during the offseason to rebuild the rotation (principally Garcia and Vazquez but even Garland if he can get us what we need) by acquiring one or two young "McCarthyesque" starters that will be cheap and under the control of the Sox for several years. As I look around the Central Division, I realize that it projects to be a very, very tough division for several years with lots of good pitching.

The Central has changed from the days when it was a weak-sister division. Cleveland had some great teams in the 90's, but also benefited from a lack of any real competition. The Twins had some good, fundamentally-sound teams in the early 2000s, but also benefited from the stumbling White Sox, a rebuilding Cleveland team and the just plain bad Royals and Tigers. It's going to take some serious pitching talent to win this division anymore. I would just assume not make any panic moves that might set us back for years.

Chisox003
07-26-2006, 07:50 PM
While I was mowing the lawn just a few minutes ago I got to thinking about the pitching problems, the 2006 season and the future. While I'm not conceding anything yet, it may be the case that our horses just aren't going to click this year for various reasons -- not the least of which may be the innings logged during the long season last year. KW should pull the trigger if he can make a sensible trade(s) that is likely to help us this year without having to give up too much. If not, for the good of the franchise I'd just assume keep our best bargaining chips and use them during the offseason to rebuild the rotation (principally Garcia and Vazquez but even Garland if he can get us what we need) by acquiring one or two young "McCarthyesque" starters that will be cheap and under the control of the Sox for several years. As I look around the Central Division, I realize that it projects to be a very, very tough division for several years with lots of good pitching.

The Central has changed from the days when it was a weak-sister division. Cleveland had some great teams in the 90's, but also benefited from a lack of any real competition. The Twins had some good, fundamentally-sound teams in the early 2000s, but also benefited from the stumbling White Sox, a rebuilding Cleveland team and the just plain bad Royals and Tigers. It's going to take some serious pitching talent to win this division anymore. I would just assume not make any panic moves that might set us back for years.
Uhh....

Well said!

Mac for Zito? Pleeeease. This is ESPN folks.

Consider the source.

sullythered
07-26-2006, 09:38 PM
Does that mean we're getting Tejada or Ichiro??? (Sorry, didn't know if I should have used teal or deep pink)
I'd give my left big toe for Ichiro.

Nellie_Fox
07-26-2006, 11:57 PM
Why? We already have a great pitcher to put in the rotation, McCarthy. The love for McCarthy reminds me of the way football fans are about backup QB's. Even though they haven't done a thing, the fans are always certain they'll be the answer to the problems. Why are you so sure that McCarthy is going to be a great starting pitcher? He might be, but I have no idea.

CLR01
07-27-2006, 12:02 AM
I heard this early in the day as well. I would not mind trading McCarthy for Zito, but I dont think it is going to happen. In the interview Olney said that it was pure speculation on his part when he spoke about this trade. His only backing was that both Beane and Williams are willing to make trades and both have things the other want.


So the talking head "insiders" are just pulling these things out of their ass? I'm shocked......

StatHead21
07-27-2006, 12:03 AM
I think Kenny learned his lesson dealing with Beane.

He's the best, just stay away.

If Kenny wants to shake up the pitching staff how about STARTING McCARTHY!!!

Nellie_Fox
07-27-2006, 12:05 AM
He's the best, just stay away. Why am I not surprised by this statement coming from a self-professed propellerhead?

Jjav829
07-27-2006, 12:08 AM
I think Kenny learned his lesson dealing with Beane.

He's the best, just stay away.

If Kenny wants to shake up the pitching staff how about STARTING McCARTHY!!!
Yeah, I still can't believe that damn Billy Beane stole Chad Bradford from us! :rolleyes:


Kenny Williams World Series Championships - 1
Billy Beane World Series Championships - Oops!

StatHead21
07-27-2006, 12:11 AM
Why am I not surprised by this statement coming from a self-professed propellerhead?

Sigh, all Sox fans seam to hate Billy Beane because some guy wrote a book about how to win with a small payroll.

Fact is he has revolutionized statistical analysis and he's a damn good GM. He's always one step ahead of the pack, its best just to stay away.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2006, 12:12 AM
ESPN does have SOME credibility...they did predict the MacDougal deal before it went down. They are wrong a lot but I mean the do get some things right and we have been interested in Zito in the past.

CLR01
07-27-2006, 12:14 AM
Sigh, all Sox fans seam to hate Billy Beane because some guy wrote a book about how to win with a small payroll.

Fact is he has revolutionized statistical analysis and he's a damn good GM. He's always one step ahead of the pack, its best just to stay away.


:rolleyes:

Palehose13
07-27-2006, 12:15 AM
Sigh, all Sox fans seam to hate Billy Beane because some guy wrote a book about how to win with a small payroll.

Fact is he has revolutionized statistical analysis and he's a damn good GM. He's always one step ahead of the pack, its best just to stay away.

And how many rings does he have? If Beane was such a good GM he'd be pulling away in that division instead of hovering around .500.

CLR01
07-27-2006, 12:15 AM
ESPN does have SOME credibility...they did predict the MacDougal deal before it went down. They are wrong a lot but I mean the do get some things right and we have been interested in Zito in the past.


Throw enough **** against the wall some of will stick sooner or later.

Jjav829
07-27-2006, 12:18 AM
And how many rings does he have? If Beane was such a good GM he'd be pulling away in that division instead of hovering around .500.

PH13, everyone knows Beane's teams don't care about regular season records. They just make sure they get into the playoffs and that's when they turn it on....






















:roflmao:

TheOldRoman
07-27-2006, 12:19 AM
Sigh, all Sox fans seam to hate Billy Beane because some guy wrote a book about how to win with a small payroll.

Fact is he has revolutionized statistical analysis and he's a damn good GM. He's always one step ahead of the pack, its best just to stay away.
So, you are saying that Beane revolutionized NOT winning championships? :?:I am pretty sure teams go about not winning titles the way they did before.

StatHead21
07-27-2006, 12:20 AM
And how many rings does he have? If Beane was such a good GM he'd be pulling away in that division instead of hovering around .500.
Give them about 30 more million before you make an ignorant comment like that.

Saying the name "Billy Beane" on this board should be against the rules because everyone seams to throw a fit, sorry I brought it up.

He's a great GM, so is Kenny.

StatHead21
07-27-2006, 12:22 AM
So, you are saying that Beane revolutionized NOT winning championships? :?:I am pretty sure teams go about not winning titles the way they did before.

Theo Epstein won using the same therories and beliefs that he uses.

Jjav829
07-27-2006, 12:23 AM
Give them about 30 more million before you make an ignorrant comment like that.

Saying the name "Billy Beane" on this board should be against the rules because everyone seams to throw a fit, sorry I brought it up.

He's a great GM, so is Kenny.

Huh? But isn't the reason Beane is so great because he does wonders with a small payroll? So if he gets $30 million more, what makes him any different from any other GM out there?

Palehose13
07-27-2006, 12:24 AM
Give them about 30 more million before you make an ignorrant comment like that.

Saying the name "Billy Beane" on this board should be against the rules because everyone seams to throw a fit, sorry I brought it up.

He's a great GM, so is Kenny.

How about learning how to spell ignorant before you use the term?

He needs 30 more million? I thought he was the "moneyball master" and won with smoke, mirrors, and stats.

Jjav829
07-27-2006, 12:24 AM
Theo Epstein won using the same therories and beliefs that he uses.

Theo Epstein won using the "Let's assemble a great starting lineup led by one of the best 3-4 combos in recent memory and spend a ton of money on good pitching" theory.

TheOldRoman
07-27-2006, 12:24 AM
Theo Epstein won using the same therories and beliefs that he uses.
Bull****. Epstien won with a $130 million payroll.

CLR01
07-27-2006, 12:28 AM
Saying the name "Billy Beane" on this board should be against the rules because everyone seams to throw a fit, sorry I brought it up.

That's because everyone who brings up the name Billy Beane seems to think he is a baseball god.

StatHead21
07-27-2006, 12:31 AM
Theo Epstein won using the "Let's assemble a great starting lineup led by one of the best 3-4 combos in recent memory and spend a ton of money on good pitching" theory.

How about pick up Ortiz off waivers, trade overrated prospects for Schilling, pick up cast aways like Mueller, Bellhorn, and Millar. Or trading away the most popular player in the history of Boston?

I could come up with a bunch of reason Kenny isn't a good GM. But he's great, Epstein is great and Beane is great. They win and they win consistently.

Jjav829
07-27-2006, 12:38 AM
How about pick up Ortiz off waivers, trade overrated prospects for Schilling, pick up cast aways like Mueller, Bellhorn, and Millar. Or trading away the most popular player in the history of Boston?

And these moves are Beane theories and beliefs? Wow, I never knew Beane invented the concept of trading overrated prospects for a good player. Or that he revolutionized the concept of signing free agents with your $100+ million payroll. :?:

MrX
07-27-2006, 12:45 AM
So if he gets $30 million more, what makes him any different from any other GM out there?
He uses a graphing calculator instead of a scientific one.

StatHead21
07-27-2006, 12:45 AM
And these moves are Beane theories and beliefs? Wow, I never knew Beane invented the concept of trading overrated prospects for a good player. Or that he revolutionized the concept of signing free agents with your $100+ million payroll. :?:
By using statistical analysis to predict an offensive breakout(Ortiz), knowing these prospects were overrated by using statistical analysis(Fossum) and Mueller, Millar, Bellhorn and Ortiz were signed for less than 6 million combined, any team could have had them.

He uses Beane's theory of getting on base, not bunting and stealing only if necessary.

Jjav829
07-27-2006, 12:50 AM
By using statistical analysis to predict an offensive breakout(Ortiz), knowing these prospects were overrated by using statistical analysis(Fossum) and Mueller, Millar, Bellhorn and Ortiz were signed for less than 6 million combined, any team could have had them.

He uses Beane's theory of getting on base, not bunting and stealing only if necessary.

And yet, in the middle of the season he went and traded Nomar for two defensive players who don't get on base at all. And still only won the World Series due to a timely stolen base, some clutch long balls and a lot of good pitching.

Oh, and the fact that he was working with a payroll of $127 million. But yeah, other than that, it was all those Beane theories at work.

Credefan21
07-27-2006, 01:22 AM
I found this on another forum and this is what the person said..

On Comcast Sports Nite tonite (after the post game), Kerry Sayers said Chuck Garfein (also of CSN) reports that majore league sources tell him the White Sox have as many as three deals pending, all involving the White Sox improving their pitching.

Take it for what it's worth.

Mr. White Sox
07-27-2006, 01:41 AM
I found this on another forum and this is what the person said..

On Comcast Sports Nite tonite (after the post game), Kerry Sayers said Chuck Garfein (also of CSN) reports that majore league sources tell him the White Sox have as many as three deals pending, all involving the White Sox improving their pitching.

Take it for what it's worth.

What I take from it is Kenny is asking for everyone under the sun. To twist an analogy from a previous post, he's throwing a bunch of **** against the wall and whatever sticks becomes a "pending trade." KW has said he's always asked about every impact player available EVERY YEAR and that mostly everyone in the farm system is available (even Fields). However, he just doesn't get a sweet enough deal most of the time, so he doesn't do it.

I'll bet Zito, Linebrink and Duaner Sanchez/Aaron Heilman are all "pending trades", meaning KW is interested to some degree. I also bet nobody is even close and we shouldn't expect any sort of deal until later on.

hold2dibber
07-27-2006, 07:16 AM
Give them about 30 more million before you make an ignorant comment like that.

Saying the name "Billy Beane" on this board should be against the rules because everyone seams to throw a fit, sorry I brought it up.

He's a great GM, so is Kenny.

I don't quite get the venom for Beane around here - but I also don't get the "he's such a great GM you shouldn't even deal with him, cuz he'll rob you clean." It's not like the guy is flawless and wins every trade.

Thome25
07-27-2006, 07:43 AM
We do not need Zito. We wouldn't be able to keep him after this year because his agent is Scott Boras. Besides he would command huge $$$ and at least a 5-year deal.

Last time I checked the White Sox do not give 5-year contracts to pitchers. Stats-wise I believe McCarthy and Zito are a wash right now. McCarthy is more appealing because he is younger and is going to be under our control for a while.

Why would we trade a good young prospect who has proven that he can pitch at this level for a two month rental? Don't do it Kenny!!

Gavin
07-27-2006, 08:36 AM
I don't quite get the venom for Beane around here

If you like Billy Beane's use of numbers around here/you look at numbers too deep you are a "propellerhead".

BeviBall!
07-27-2006, 08:54 AM
Why does everyone assume that these players would be rentals? Do the Sox do rentals to players under 45?

Again, I'm sorry but if you can get a guy like Zito and lock him up for a few years for McCarthy, you don't even think about it. You pull that trade so fast you make heads spin.

1917
07-27-2006, 11:01 AM
[quote=BeviBall!]Why does everyone assume that these players would be rentals? Do the Sox do rentals to players under 45?

I agree...same with why would a team trade a player just because he is a FA next year, like Schimdt, you mean an organization as big as the Giants won't be in the bidding for him?

russ99
07-27-2006, 11:16 AM
Enough with the Billy Beane man-love.

"Moneyball" has already been proven as a bunch of hooey.

Mr. White Sox
07-27-2006, 12:39 PM
Newest rumor regarding Zito has the A's asking the Mets (who are incredibly interested) for Lastings Milledge, Aaron Heilman, and possibly John Maine or Brian Bannister.

That's equivalent to the Sox giving up McCarthy + Fields, basically.

and LOL, the LA Times reported Bowden asked the Angels (in exchange for Soriano) for:
Howie Kendrick or Brandon Wood AND one of Jered Weaver, John Lackey or Ervin Santana.
Bowden is ****ing insane.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-27-2006, 12:42 PM
Newest rumor regarding Zito has the A's asking the Mets (who are incredibly interested) for Lastings Milledge, Aaron Heilman, and possibly John Maine or Brian Bannister.

That's equivalent to the Sox giving up McCarthy + Fields, basically.

I'll give 'em Garcia or Vasquz for Milledge and Heilman, and pay for either of their (Garcia or Vasquez) salaries the rest of this year.

CYGarland20
07-27-2006, 01:07 PM
I don't think Soriano is coming to the Sox, but I do think there will be another deal. I hope there is another deal, because we need a top of the rotation starter like a Zito and a RH 4th outfielder, that can ACTUALLY field.

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2006, 01:30 PM
I'll give 'em Garcia or Vasquz for Milledge and Heilman, and pay for either of their (Garcia or Vasquez) salaries the rest of this year.

If the Mets aren't doing this for Zito, they aren't doing it for one of those guys.

hold2dibber
07-27-2006, 01:30 PM
I hope there is another deal, because we need a top of the rotation starter like a Zito and a RH 4th outfielder, that can ACTUALLY field.

I don't think there are any top of the rotation starters available. The only guys who might, maybe, possibly could be available and fit that description are Zito and Schmidt. I'd be really surprised to see either of those guys traded, since both of their respective teams are right in the hunt of the race. Plus, as much as I like Schmidt, I don't even know if I'd want him since I'm very leery of NL pitchers coming to the AL.

Beyond those two, its guys like Maddux, Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, Tony Armas, Jr., Rodrigo Lopez, possibly Byrd, etc. I'd rather take my chances with the current rotation than give up anything for any of those guys.

White Sox Randy
07-27-2006, 01:40 PM
1. I don't think there is any starter that is realistically available that is better than what we have now - McCarthy should be inserted if we need a new starting pitcher.

2. We need another reliever and I'm pretty sure that KW will get one. This will free up Brandon for the rotation and also help us shorten the game for our starters - since now a couple of them are 5-6 inning pitchers.

3. The Sox may carry 12 pitchers down the stretch.

4. We will be ok ! We are going to the PLAYOFFS !

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 01:53 PM
I don't think there are any top of the rotation starters available. The only guys who might, maybe, possibly could be available and fit that description are Zito and Schmidt. I'd be really surprised to see either of those guys traded, since both of their respective teams are right in the hunt of the race. Plus, as much as I like Schmidt, I don't even know if I'd want him since I'm very leery of NL pitchers coming to the AL.

Beyond those two, its guys like Maddux, Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, Tony Armas, Jr., Rodrigo Lopez, possibly Byrd, etc. I'd rather take my chances with the current rotation than give up anything for any of those guys.Very well said. This is a case of the grass being greener on the other side. Just because some of the Sox pitchers have struggled is no reason to assume that 1) they'll continue to struggle and 2) someone else won't. There are very few pitchers who I'd take over anyone in the Sox rotation and the chances they'll be available are practically nil. The Sox are going to have to get there with the horses they've got.

Britt Burns
07-27-2006, 02:55 PM
I don't think there are any top of the rotation starters available. The only guys who might, maybe, possibly could be available and fit that description are Zito and Schmidt. I'd be really surprised to see either of those guys traded, since both of their respective teams are right in the hunt of the race. Plus, as much as I like Schmidt, I don't even know if I'd want him since I'm very leery of NL pitchers coming to the AL.

Beyond those two, its guys like Maddux, Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, Tony Armas, Jr., Rodrigo Lopez, possibly Byrd, etc. I'd rather take my chances with the current rotation than give up anything for any of those guys.

Bingo! Adding a fringe starter like that isn't going to do us a thing other than bleed the farm system dry.

bluestar
07-27-2006, 03:22 PM
Buster Olney (so take it for what it is worth) just reported on ESPN radio that the Tigers have offered Humberto Sanchez for Soriano. IF this is true (and coming from Olney, who knows?) I don't see the Nats getting anything better. I know Bowden has been asking ridiculous prices, but I think in the end he will take the best deal offered.

ndgt10
07-27-2006, 03:26 PM
Buster Olney (so take it for what it is worth) just reported on ESPN radio that the Tigers have offered Humberto Sanchez for Soriano. IF this is true (and coming from Olney, who knows?) I don't see the Nats getting anything better. I know Bowden has been asking ridiculous prices, but I think in the end he will take the best deal offered.
That sucks, I wish we could have gotten him.

1917
07-27-2006, 03:32 PM
Buster Olney (so take it for what it is worth) just reported on ESPN radio that the Tigers have offered Humberto Sanchez for Soriano. IF this is true (and coming from Olney, who knows?) I don't see the Nats getting anything better. I know Bowden has been asking ridiculous prices, but I think in the end he will take the best deal offered.

That sucks, I thought they wanted Verlander or Zumaya (SP?).....that may have been what they OFFERED...doesn't mean they will accept

caulfield12
07-27-2006, 03:37 PM
Realistically, it has to be more than just Sanchez.

It's probably a combination of Maybin (OF prospect), Sanchez, maybe Jurrgens, a pitcher in A ball that's having a very good season

Miner and Colon are the other two names you hear most frequently, but they can't deal Miner unless they know Maroth is back.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 04:07 PM
Buster Olney (so take it for what it is worth) just reported on ESPN radio that the Tigers have offered Humberto Sanchez for Soriano. IF this is true (and coming from Olney, who knows?) I don't see the Nats getting anything better. I know Bowden has been asking ridiculous prices, but I think in the end he will take the best deal offered.Sanchez was scratched from his start earlier this week. Soriano's value will depend a lot on whether the acquiring team can re-sign him and at what price.

BeviBall!
07-27-2006, 04:23 PM
Realistically, it has to be more than just Sanchez.

It's probably a combination of Maybin (OF prospect), Sanchez, maybe Jurrgens, a pitcher in A ball that's having a very good season

Miner and Colon are the other two names you hear most frequently, but they can't deal Miner unless they know Maroth is back.

Maybin and Sanchez... god, they'd have to be extremely desperate to part with both.

Tekijawa
07-27-2006, 04:23 PM
Sanchez was scratched from his start earlier this week. Soriano's value will depend a lot on whether the acquiring team can re-sign him and at what price.

So what you're saying is "Chicagoans Start Boycotting Little Caesars Pizza?"

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 04:25 PM
So what you're saying is "Chicagoans Start Boycotting Little Caesars Pizza?"Have you ever had a Little Caesars Pizza? :puking:

russ99
07-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Realistically, it has to be more than just Sanchez.

It's probably a combination of Maybin (OF prospect), Sanchez, maybe Jurrgens, a pitcher in A ball that's having a very good season

Miner and Colon are the other two names you hear most frequently, but they can't deal Miner unless they know Maroth is back.

It also depends on how desperate the Nationals are in trying to unload him before Monday's deadline.

BeviBall!
07-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Have you ever had a Little Caesars Pizza? :puking:

C'mon now... no need for hate. Who didn't survive on that stuff in college?

PushnThaEscalade
07-27-2006, 04:39 PM
C'mon now... no need for hate. Who didn't survive on that stuff in college?

I'm still surving on it.

1917
07-27-2006, 04:39 PM
C'mon now... no need for hate. Who didn't survive on that stuff in college?

I lived off Papa Johns and Jimmy Johns

UofCSoxFan
07-27-2006, 05:04 PM
Papa Johns is crap too...I guess not everyone was fortunate enough to stay in Chicago for school though so some sins can be forgiven.

Ol' No. 2
07-27-2006, 05:09 PM
C'mon now... no need for hate. Who didn't survive on that stuff in college?Little Ceasars didn't exist then. We used to take the El down to Uno's.

bluestar
07-27-2006, 05:15 PM
That sucks, I thought they wanted Verlander or Zumaya (SP?).....that may have been what they OFFERED...doesn't mean they will accept

Yes, Bowden has apparently been asking for all kinds of crazy stuff. Olney said that the closer to the deadline it gets, the less Bowden is going to be willing to accept. He said Bowden DEFINITELY intends to move Soriano for the best deal he can get. But he also said that people just aren't cooperating like Bowden had hoped. No one is willing to give up two or three hot prospects at this point. He said he would jump all over a Sanchez-for-Soriano trade if he was Bowden, because no other team was offering anything like Sanchez.

Again, this is Olney we are talking about. Who knows how much he really knows and how much he is just shooting in the dark.

MarySwiss
07-27-2006, 06:21 PM
Little Ceasars didn't exist then. We used to take the El down to Uno's.

IIRC, way back then, there was a frozen pizza at the Jewel and Dominick's. It was called, simply, "John's." Basically cheese on a crust, but what I used to do was dump a couple of extra ounces of cheese on it, then just bake it until the cheese melted. So it came out tasting like a kind of cheese taco. Good stuff!

Kwrubac
07-27-2006, 07:33 PM
IIRC, way back then, there was a frozen pizza at the Jewel and Dominick's. It was called, simply, "John's." Basically cheese on a crust, but what I used to do was dump a couple of extra ounces of cheese on it, then just bake it until the cheese melted. So it came out tasting like a kind of cheese taco. Good stuff!

I'm pretty sure they still have it...I don't recall what I ate at college, it was better not asking my friends what they bought...But after a few beers it really doesn't make a difference!

palehozenychicty
07-28-2006, 12:06 AM
C'mon now... no need for hate. Who didn't survive on that stuff in college?

Papa John's for me, baby. :D:

Domeshot17
07-28-2006, 12:13 AM
we lived and died on dominos, because they gave us hella discount.

I worked for a pizza place in brookfield though, so I had good pizza every week.

Ate a TON of Sub T and Jimmy Johns (if anyone is in the oak park forest park area, you know Sub T, well worth the 2 am drive, especially with free student ID sodas, even if they dont take debit cards)

Nellie_Fox
07-28-2006, 12:47 AM
we lived and died on dominos, because they gave us hella discount.
http://johnstodderinexile.wordpress.com/files/2006/04/kyle.jpg Stop sayin "hella" Cartman!

ma-gaga
07-28-2006, 03:26 AM
http://johnstodderinexile.wordpress.com/files/2006/04/kyle.jpg Stop sayin "hella" Cartman!

I think Nellie_Fox quoting South Park is one of the funniest posts I've read in quite some time.

"oh my god, he killed Nellie"

Nellie_Fox
07-29-2006, 12:04 AM
I think Nellie_Fox quoting South Park is one of the funniest posts I've read in quite some time.

"oh my god, he killed Nellie"
Thank you. I'll be here until Tuesday. Don't forget to tip your waitress.

Tragg
07-29-2006, 09:22 AM
By using statistical analysis to predict an offensive breakout(Ortiz).

Or maybe he picked up a talented, but flawed, player cheap and got lucky. Sort of like Kenny did with Bobby Jenks.
Credit both with a good eye for talent and taking calculated risks and creating their own luck.


Nomar was not the most popular player in Boston when he was traded. The RedSox were tired of him, so they threw him under the bus, worked with their media friends, such that the fans were fine with it when he was dealt. Just like the Cubs did with the fan favorite Sosa....by the time he was dealt, the Cubs fans cheered it.

Epstein is a good GM, with far and away the game's 2nd largest payroll behind him. Beane is a good GM (a tiresome one, because he's over-hyped)...but despite the offensive theories he espouses, he's yet to create an effective offense (Mr Moneyball's biggest investment is to pay a guy who hits 5 homers a year, Jason Kendall, $10 mill a year)...his wins come from quality young pitching that he always seems to have. While Beane grows his own pitching well, the pitching he trades for is dubious - Loiza, Dotel (his stats didn't reveal what people who watch Astros games knew....that Dotel's particular expertise was the 9th inning gopherball). I doubt Beane has much of an eye for talent.

Mr. White Sox
07-29-2006, 01:57 PM
The Rumor Mill grinds on even at Baseball Prospectus; I really like this guy's bloggish updates on trade rumors and the like. Friday's is free but today's is subscription only save for a couple of paragraphs. Looks like we might see the Red Sox make a deal this afternoon.

Whitesox4ever
07-29-2006, 02:28 PM
Heard from a friend that lives in Pitt that Dejean Kovacevic of Pitt Post Gazette mention on the radio that he thinks that a deal between the Sox and Pirates will happen by monday.

The rumor deal that he reported was Lance Broadway, Casey Rogowski and a lower prospect for Mike Gonzalez..

JUribe1989
07-29-2006, 02:32 PM
I love Gonzalez' live arm. I would pull the trigger on that in an instant. The team will have no real use for Rogowski for awhile and I haven't heard all that much about Lance Broadway having future success in the Majors.

samram
07-29-2006, 02:34 PM
I like the thought of another lefty in the pen, especially one that can close if need be. That's not that exhorbitant a price to pay either. I don't think the Sox are ever counting on Rogo to be a major contributor on the ML level.

White Sox Randy
07-29-2006, 02:34 PM
What do they do with another bullpen arm unless they make another move ?

Whitesox4ever
07-29-2006, 02:36 PM
What do they do with another bullpen arm unless they make another move ?

I think we might go with 12 pitchers with Javy and Buehrle been having problems getting past the 5th inn..


The Pirates are looking for a strong left handed bat that can play 1B or a corner OF position. So this rumor deal might be true

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2006, 02:39 PM
Heard from a friend that lives in Pitt that Dejean Kovacevic of Pitt Post Gazette mention on the radio that he thinks that a deal between the Sox and Pirates will happen by monday.

The rumor deal that he reported was Lance Broadway, Casey Rogowski and a lower prospect for Mike Gonzalez..

Good grief! If true, a pen of Jenks, Gonzalez, MacDougal and Thornton would allow the Sox the luxury of closing out a game even if the starter only went five innings. Even Vazquez hasn't had a problem doing that!
:o:

MadetoOrta
07-29-2006, 02:40 PM
The guy makes a mere $300,000, has 16 saves, is lefty and isn't eligible for free agency until 2010. As good as Broadway may be, this would be another KW masterpiece. Wow

White Sox Randy
07-29-2006, 02:41 PM
Who is the "strong left handed bat " in the deal ?

Don't say Rogowski. My guess is that if he played a full season in the bigs, he'd probably hit .220 with 10 jacks.

samram
07-29-2006, 02:43 PM
Who is the "strong left handed bat " in the deal ?

Don't say Rogowski. My guess is that if he played a full season in the bigs, he'd probably hit .220 with 10 jacks.

He's only got 6 or so in Charlotte, so he may not even get 10, but if the Pirates think he's good, more power to the Sox.:cool:

Whitesox4ever
07-29-2006, 02:45 PM
If KW can pull this deal off.. We will be back in the playoffs with a very strong bullpen.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-29-2006, 02:46 PM
I think if we could get someone like that for Rogo than we should do it. Something tells me he'll be like Bajenaru was and have that AAAA potential. If we carry 12 pitchers, who's the man left out? Gload is out of options, Ozuna, Mackowiak, and Cintron are too important.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2006, 02:54 PM
They wouldn't necessarily have to go with a 12-man rotation during August.

If the Sox were to acquire Mike Gonzalez, the Sox could send McCarthy down to Charlotte to get stretched out and prepared to start. They could use the month of August to make sure Vazquez (and Garcia, for that matter) are ready for the stretch run and for the playoffs. If one of them falters, the Sox could put that one on the DL on August 31 and call up McCarthy to be the #5 starter for the month of September. As long as he is on the 25-man roster on Sept. 1, he's eligible to pitch in the playoffs.

That way, come playoff time, the Sox could choose from either McCarthy or Vazquez to put on the postseason roster.

Remember, they did this last year with El Duque and McCarthy (although El Duque truly had an injury problem). Then again, putting Vazquez on the DL could be a "precautionary" move as well.

CLR01
07-29-2006, 03:03 PM
I think if we could get someone like that for Rogo than we should do it. Something tells me he'll be like Bajenaru was and have that AAAA potential. If we carry 12 pitchers, who's the man left out? Gload is out of options, Ozuna, Mackowiak, and Cintron are too important.

Say goodbye to Ross Gload.

ndgt10
07-29-2006, 03:10 PM
Say goodbye to Ross Gload.
KW already said that we were not going to make any more trades.

CLR01
07-29-2006, 03:23 PM
KW already said that we were not going to make any more trades.


I realize that but the question was if the deal goes down who's the odd man out.

If this rumor is real Kenny would be a fool not to make it because he said he was done trading.

BeviBall!
07-29-2006, 03:24 PM
KW already said that we were not going to make any more trades.

Believe it Monday afternoon, when the deadline passes. This Gonzalez rumor has me licking my chops. A move like that takes a lot of pressure off the starters and could actually be better than acquiring a starting pitcher.

Mr. White Sox
07-29-2006, 03:33 PM
Believe it Monday afternoon, when the deadline passes. This Gonzalez rumor has me licking my chops. A move like that takes a lot of pressure off the starters and could actually be better than acquiring a starting pitcher.

I like Mike Gonzalez, but he reminds me a lot of a LHP Mike MacDougal. Lots of walks, good strikeout totals, good ERA (1.52 WHIP!)

Essentially, you're trading a future 3rd starter in Broadway (essentially more value than Lumsden), and Rogo who is expendable but valuable (think Sean Casey with more speed and a bit less average). I might do this deal, but it's totally overpaying. As in, WAY WAY too much because his Closer status inflates his trade value.

getonbckthr
07-29-2006, 04:27 PM
Getting Gonzalez could open a door for a deal of moving a package of say Cotts, Uribe, Garcia or Vazquez for Tejada. Maybe even say Garcia or Vazquez to Philly for Flash and Delucci ( can play all 3 OF positions.) I would think getting Gonzalez would allow KW to move Cotts and his over-rated ERA, he allows plenty of inherited runners. Not to mention with the reliever market toss in Cotts is a lefty. Hey Boston wants to move COCO obviously so maybe a COCO for Cotts deal. He wouldn't be a bad 4th OF. What I am getting at is getting Gonzalez would open so many doors for Kenny and the Gang.

samram
07-29-2006, 04:46 PM
I like Mike Gonzalez, but he reminds me a lot of a LHP Mike MacDougal. Lots of walks, good strikeout totals, good ERA (1.52 WHIP!)

Essentially, you're trading a future 3rd starter in Broadway (essentially more value than Lumsden), and Rogo who is expendable but valuable (think Sean Casey with more speed and a bit less average). I might do this deal, but it's totally overpaying. As in, WAY WAY too much because his Closer status inflates his trade value.
Rogo isn't that valuable to the Sox because that position is filled here for five years and he's shown very little power in AAA. Plus he's already 25 or so.

Mr. White Sox
07-29-2006, 05:04 PM
Rogo isn't that valuable to the Sox because that position is filled here for five years and he's shown very little power in AAA. Plus he's already 25 or so.

I meant valuable to other clubs. He's definitely expendable for the Sox. The question you'd pose if this trade were done is: Are you willing to risk losing a third-starter-type for yet another quality bullpen arm?

samram
07-29-2006, 05:12 PM
I meant valuable to other clubs. He's definitely expendable for the Sox. The question you'd pose if this trade were done is: Are you willing to risk losing a third-starter-type for yet another quality bullpen arm?
That's a good question. I think you would, especially one who hasn't been above AA. The danger is negotiating against yourself- what's the market for Gonzalez? Are others offering similar packages for him, etc.? I think having another arm like that can't hurt and I think the market would be at least a AA projected third starter.

ChiSoxlukes
07-29-2006, 05:50 PM
If this rumor is true, please make this deal KW! Sox starters would only have to pitch through the 5th inning with the bullpen they would have. THis would help out Javy a lot as well as the struggling MB.

rowand33
07-29-2006, 07:41 PM
wow... we'd have the best pen EVER if we got Gonzalez...

Tragg
07-29-2006, 07:56 PM
Getting Gonzalez could open a door for a deal of moving a package of say Cotts, Uribe, Garcia or Vazquez for Tejada. . Tejada is a poor SS (he plays DH a lot) and Uribe is one of the best in baseball. Uribe has some pop himself. Tejada, while a great hitter for a shortstop, is not a great hitter on his own merits- we also have several Tejada-level hitters. Tejada-Uribe straight up wouldn't help us much, if at all; if we have to add 2 pitchers, it's crazy.
He's also a malcontent.

munchman33
07-29-2006, 08:11 PM
Tejada is a poor SS

You're getting dangerously close to being the first person I've ever put on my ignore list. That comment is completely assinine, untrue, and very telling about your ability to evaluate baseball talent.

Miguel Tejada is one of the best defensive shortstops in the game. And he plays every day. He DH's like once a week because he never takes days off.

Tragg
07-29-2006, 08:19 PM
Heard from a friend that lives in Pitt that Dejean Kovacevic of Pitt Post Gazette mention on the radio that he thinks that a deal between the Sox and Pirates will happen by monday.

The rumor deal that he reported was Lance Broadway, Casey Rogowski and a lower prospect for Mike Gonzalez.. Trading 2 of our top 10 prospects for an average reliever is bizarre.
Here are his WHIPs against NL competition for the last 3 years, starting with 04: .88(excellent) 1.32 (average-fair) 1.52 (terrible). He's getting worse.
The only reason that this guy is closing is because he's on the Pirates.

He doesn't look any better than MacDougal. We should pay a Mac Dougal price, not something inflated because he's "closing".
Broadway and Ragowski could go a long way to getting us a real good player.

rowand33
07-29-2006, 08:24 PM
Tejada is a poor SS (he plays DH a lot) and Uribe is one of the best in baseball. Uribe has some pop himself. Tejada, while a great hitter for a shortstop, is not a great hitter on his own merits- we also have several Tejada-level hitters. Tejada-Uribe straight up wouldn't help us much, if at all; if we have to add 2 pitchers, it's crazy.
He's also a malcontent.

1) Tejada DHs when he's too banged up to play shortstop. The guy plays everyday no matter what. he's a good defensive shortstop.

2) he's not a great hitter on his own merits? you're right... the 150 RBI in 2004 on a bad Os team, the MVP with Oakland, a current .331 average...

terrible hitter.

3) I like Uribe, but if you think that Tejada-Uribe straight up wouldn't be beneficial to the sox, you're an idiot.

4) I don't even think he's that much of a malcontent. His problems with the Orioles have come from the fact that he doesn't think the organization is dedicated to winning.

do you know anything about the current state of baseball?

Tejada is the best all around shortstop in baseball right now.

I love Juan, but saying you'd take uribe over him is insane.

Tragg
07-29-2006, 08:27 PM
You're getting dangerously close to being the first person I've ever put on my ignore list. That comment is completely assinine, untrue, and very telling about your ability to evaluate baseball talent.


Obviously I meant defensively - probably should have said mediocre, not poor.. If you consider Tejada one of the best defenisve SS in the game, you certainly have the right to that opinion.

It's strange how some people get so personal, when they read opinions with which they disagree.

he's not a great hitter on his own merits? you're right... the 150 RBI in 2004 on a bad Os team, the MVP with Oakland, a current .331 average...terrible hitter He is a great hitter for a SS, a good hitter in his own right. He's got a low OBP, something that I find meaningful.
Can you guys find a single defenisve analysis that puts him in the elite of SS defensively?


I like Uribe, but if you think that Tejada-Uribe straight up wouldn't be beneficial to the sox, you're an idiot. Whatever. I heard the same thing last year when I failed to realize how a rent of AJ Burnett was worth all of our best young players. The question is what is best for THIS team (obviously Tejada has a greater market value). Start downgrading this team's pitching and D and see what happens. Uribe saves a lot of runs. We became a better team when we solidified the D and the pitching, at the expense of losing excellent hitters like Ordonez (who is a better hitter than Tejada) and Lee. So, yea, I think hurting our defense and our pitching to improve our hitting, is a bad idea. REverson to 2004 is a bad idea.

samram
07-29-2006, 09:26 PM
Trading 2 of our top 10 prospects for an average reliever is bizarre.
Here are his WHIPs against NL competition for the last 3 years, starting with 04: .88(excellent) 1.32 (average-fair) 1.52 (terrible). He's getting worse.
The only reason that this guy is closing is because he's on the Pirates.

He doesn't look any better than MacDougal. We should pay a Mac Dougal price, not something inflated because he's "closing".
Broadway and Ragowski could go a long way to getting us a real good player.

Rogo is not a top 10 prospect. He's a very poor man's Sean Casey. From reading your posts and your evaluation of the talent on the Sox and the talent on other teams, I can't believe the Sox haven't won the World Series each of the last 20 years.

MarkyBear
07-29-2006, 09:32 PM
IMO the Gonzalez trade would make more sense if they had another trade in place involving a starter, thus McCarthy taking the departed starters place in the rotation with Gonzalez taking McCarthys.

If I'm not mistaken, Gloads their only legitimate backup option at firstbase besides Thome and it's nice to have an option of resting Konerko or resting Thome with Konerko playing DH while Gload can fill in decently at first in both cases.

munchman33
07-29-2006, 10:30 PM
Obviously I meant defensively - probably should have said mediocre, not poor.. If you consider Tejada one of the best defenisve SS in the game, you certainly have the right to that opinion.

It's strange how some people get so personal, when they read opinions with which they disagree.




It isn't just that I disagree. Its that everyone who's ever watched a baseball game disagrees. Miguel Tejada has great range, a cannon for an arm, and is not to shabby fielding either.

dickallen15
07-29-2006, 10:37 PM
IMO the Gonzalez trade would make more sense if they had another trade in place involving a starter, thus McCarthy taking the departed starters place in the rotation with Gonzalez taking McCarthys.

If I'm not mistaken, Gloads their only legitimate backup option at firstbase besides Thome and it's nice to have an option of resting Konerko or resting Thome with Konerko playing DH while Gload can fill in decently at first in both cases.
Mackowiak can play 1B, as can Pablo. IMO if this Gonzalez info is legitimate, it makes this year's bullpen deeper, and sets up either Cotts or Thornton to try and be a starter in 2007. The Sox could trade 2 of the current pitchers in the rotation, and bring back a ton of parts.

Tragg
07-29-2006, 11:06 PM
It isn't just that I disagree. Its that everyone who's ever watched a baseball game disagrees. Miguel Tejada has great range, a cannon for an arm, and is not to shabby fielding either.

Really? It's that obvious that he's an elite defender?


Here's someone who disagrees with your position "Tejada's defense has slipped, and scouts are questioning his effort" - Rosenthal - http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5758692?print=true

Here's a guy who does defensive stats - #22 I do believe.
http://beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2006/7/26/15656/7811


And did I mention he does a Sosa chest-beat after a homer?

Tragg
07-29-2006, 11:07 PM
Rogo is not a top 10 prospect. He's a very poor man's Sean Casey. From reading your posts and your evaluation of the talent on the Sox and the talent on other teams, I can't believe the Sox haven't won the World Series each of the last 20 years. Fair enough...but reading most of the stuff on here, I can't believe we win 80 games a year with this collection of players.
What we need is a starting pitcher...it's impossible to find a good one this time of year. But let's hear something on that. Last year, we didn't need a starter, but that's all we heard. It's all backwards.

KW made 2 small trades to shore up the pen...and that make sense because we have a closer and middle relievers should come relatively cheap and they did.

Most of this other stuff is for non-weaknesses, that would improve one area, but hurt another area; further, the help is our stength and the hurt is invariably pitching and defense, so I don't see the point.

Maybe this guy for the Pirates is good, but he doesn't look like anything special on paper...I don't see any difference between him and the other 2 we got, though.

MrX
07-29-2006, 11:35 PM
4) I don't even think he's that much of a malcontent. His problems with the Orioles have come from the fact that he doesn't think the organization is dedicated to winning.
:rolling:

Isn't that the A-Rod excuse. He could hae gone to a team dedicated to winning when he was a FA if he had taken less money, he made his choice.

Domeshot17
07-30-2006, 12:12 AM
When they shelled out that money, They told him they were committed to winning, and making the team better and a winner again. I understand that Tejada is pissed because nothing has changed, and he cant do it all himself. But he is 10 times the player Uribe is.

TheOldRoman
07-30-2006, 12:40 AM
Uribe saves a lot of runs. We became a better team when we solidified the D and the pitching, at the expense of losing excellent hitters like Ordonez (who is a better hitter than Tejada) and Lee.

OK, you lost all credibility there. Ordonez is nowhere near Tejada. He isn't even close to being the offensive threat Tejada is. Miguel Tejada is a PREMIER offensive players, no matter what position he plays.

Also, whoever you cited that ranks defense is a moron. First of all, there are not 30 first basemen better defensively than Konerko. Crede is ranked 13, below ARAMIS RAMIREZ, and the fire hydrant that is Mike Lowell is first. Their rankings are a joke.

MrX
07-30-2006, 01:15 AM
Getting Gonzalez could open a door for a deal of moving a package of say Cotts, Uribe, Garcia or Vazquez for Tejada.
Rumor is the asking price for the Angels for Tejada is Scot Shields, Ervin Santana, and Howie Kendrick.

I doubt that package from the Sox woud come close to getting it done.

Save McCuddy's
07-30-2006, 01:20 AM
they'd be insane to trade Ervin Santana for almost any offensive player right now.

caulfield12
07-30-2006, 07:33 AM
First of all, it's Santana and Eric Aybar, who is rated behind Brandon Wood as a shortstop prospect with them.

It's gone back and forth with some of their other prospects like Saunders, Kendrick and Morales.

Supposedly, if they include one more prospect in that deal (a Kotchmann or McPherson type who has struggled at the big league leve) it's done but Stoneman is waiting it out

caulfield12
07-30-2006, 07:36 AM
Miguel Tejada is not a premiere defensive talent.

He has all the aspects, but he has lapses in concentration and usually messes up the routine plays (when he makes errors). He is capable of the spectacular, and, with his offense, he is still undoubtedly up there with Jeter in terms of difference making players at the position. His arm is still very good, but not in the category of Uribe or Valentin.

I think he definitely picks his game up to another level when he has a chance to play on a winning team...I feel a little sorry for both Mora and Tejada. They're in the middle of a rebuilding effort again, which seemingly takes place in BALT every season.

broker3d
07-30-2006, 08:08 PM
Rumor is the asking price for the Angels for Tejada is Scot Shields, Ervin Santana, and Howie Kendrick.

I doubt that package from the Sox woud come close to getting it done.

We have an advantage over the Angels, even if we offer less. We actually have a position for Tejada to play.

Pierzynski 12
07-30-2006, 08:36 PM
I wish Tejada would get traded to the NL. No more facing us.:redneck

ozzie is god
07-30-2006, 08:59 PM
Rumor is the asking price for the Angels for Tejada is Scot Shields, Ervin Santana, and Howie Kendrick.

I doubt that package from the Sox woud come close to getting it done.


If I were the O's I would have jumped all over this deal. I don't think the Angels would be stupid enough to offer all those guys.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2006, 09:28 PM
From Rotoworld:
http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif
The Orioles and Astros are discussing a Miguel Tejada deal that includes Roy Oswalt, according to the Baltimore Sun.
Morgan Ensberg and Adam Everett would also go to Baltimore. We don't see how this would make Houston better. Tejada is a huge offensive upgrade, but that doesn't make up for the loss of Oswalt and the defensive downgrade. The Orioles may not be especially interested anyway, since they'd likely only have Oswalt through 2007. They could make the trade and then deal Oswalt for younger talent, but the various factions in Baltimore take forever just to agree to one move. Pulling off two simultaneously would be pretty much impossible.

Bill Naharodny
07-30-2006, 09:36 PM
From Rotoworld:

Interesting. Seems crazy to offer Roy Oswalt. But I can bet that any GM who hadn't previously heard that Oswalt was available took about 4 seconds to call Purpura and see. That would include Kenny Williams.

I just can't imagine it, even with Oswalt only locked up through next year.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2006, 09:38 PM
Interesting. Seems crazy to offer Roy Oswalt. But I can bet that any GM who hadn't previously heard that Oswalt was available took about 4 seconds to call Purpura and see. That would include Kenny Williams.

I just can't imagine it, even with Oswalt only locked up through next year.
Would you trade Buehrle + Vazquez/Garcia for Oswalt? That's probably what it would take. Or maybe Garcia + Fields + Sweeney.

That's why I can't imagine Oswalt would be available either.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2006, 09:48 PM
From Will Carroll's Blog on Baseballprospectus.com:

Think Kenny Williams has been quiet over the last week? Don't mistake quiet for inactive. The White Sox have been involved in several discussions. It's just that nothing discussed got to a point where Williams and his staff felt it would improve the team. The team that's been surprisingly quiet? The Mets. "They're swinging for the fences," one team executive told me. "You can do that when you stuck a knife in the Braves over the weekend."

Bill Naharodny
07-30-2006, 09:52 PM
Would you trade Buehrle + Vazquez/Garcia for Oswalt? That's probably what it would take. Or maybe Garcia + Fields + Sweeney.

That's why I can't imagine Oswalt would be available either.

I probably wouldn't swing either one of those. and I've always respected Oswalt quite a bit (maybe it was that run-in he had with Michael Barrett).

If the Astros offered him to the O's, I wonder if it's because they're concerned about the workload he's had the past few years. He's not a real big guy, but he throws hard and he's been a workhorse. In some ways, he's a lot like Buehrle -- tough competitor, takes the ball, goes deep into games, a winner. He has better stuff, though.

ZombieRob
07-30-2006, 09:52 PM
Would you trade Buehrle + Vazquez/Garcia for Oswalt? That's probably what it would take. Or maybe Garcia + Fields + Sweeney.

That's why I can't imagine Oswalt would be available either.

in a heart beat

102605
07-30-2006, 09:55 PM
Would you trade Buehrle + Vazquez/Garcia for Oswalt?

Where do I sign?

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2006, 09:58 PM
Where do I sign?

I probably goofed in that it would take Buehrle + Vazquez + Fields + Broadway ... and you're taking on Oswalt's salary ($11,000,000), and that's even assuming Oswalt is available.

Basically I doubt Oswalt gets traded to anyone.

ZombieRob
07-30-2006, 10:00 PM
see if you can aslo get tavarez (sp) in the deal somehow

TheOldRoman
07-30-2006, 10:04 PM
If this Astros-O's deal was actually discussed, I would like to see Kenny step in and take Oswalt off their hands. We could give the Orioles Vazquez (they have always been high on him) and $2mil a year, along with Fields and maybe someone else.
If in fact the Orioles were cosidering aquiring Oswalt, this deal would make much more sense. Fields could help them for years to come, and Leo Mazzone might be the guy to finally turn Vazquez around. I don't see why the Orioles would have use for Ensberg or Everrett.

Jjav829
07-30-2006, 10:07 PM
I highly doubt the Astros would trade Oswalt for Tejada. That's just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. So their offense would be a little better, but then they'd have issues in their rotation.

Also, keep in mind Clemens is probably done after this year and Pettitte has talked about being uncertain as to whether he wants to pitch after this year. So they trade Oswalt and their opening day starter next year is...Brandon Backe. :o:

Not happening.

But just for the sake of not completely killing this rumor, if this was true, I'd imagine Kenny would be working the phones to trade for Tejada so he can move Tejada for Oswalt.

But yeah, not happening. :wink:

MrX
07-30-2006, 11:23 PM
If I were the O's I would have jumped all over this deal. I don't think the Angels would be stupid enough to offer all those guys.
That's what the O's were asking for. The Angels turned them down.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2006, 11:55 PM
That's what the O's were asking for. The Angels turned them down.
If the below is true, the entire organization - especially Angelos - is freaking insane.
From Rotoworld.com:
The Astros have dropped out of the bidding for Miguel Tejada, according to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal.
Rosenthal says the Astros were willing to give up Roy Oswalt, Morgan Ensberg and Adam Everett for Tejada, but the Orioles still couldn't make it work. Baltimore was trying to spin Oswalt to the Rangers for Hank Blalock, shortstop prospect Joaquin Arias and a top pitching prospect, something that seemingly would have put the organization in much better position for 2007 and beyond. However, the deal was killed by Orioles owner Peter Angelos. The Astros were nervous about Oswalt going to Texas anyway and may have chosen to try something different. "It's over," an Astros official told FOXSports.com Sunday night. "We told them we're not dealing with them anymore." The Angels are also reportedly out of the mix for Tejada, suggesting that the shortstop will remain with the Orioles until the offseason.

MrX
07-31-2006, 12:25 AM
:rolling:

He's was going to get one of the games best pitchers and trade him for a 3rd baseman who can't hit outside of Arlington.

I like Houston worrying about him going to the Rangers more than the fact they were getting raped.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 12:46 AM
I heard both on ESPN radio about an hour ago and just read at our favorite site that the Marlins have become a big player for Soriano. Sopposedly they want to get Soriano so they can flip him for some young position players.

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 01:54 AM
If the below is true, the entire organization - especially Angelos - is freaking insane.
From Rotoworld.com:

That can't be true. Tejada for Oswalt would be a good move for them. But to get Ensberg added in and reject it?

BTW, Jayson Stark is reporting that Jason Schmidt is suddenly available in trade talks. I wonder if Kenny will make a last minute run at Schmidt.

MrX
07-31-2006, 12:02 PM
Rumor is Drayton McLane has ordered GM Tim Purpura to trade Brad Lidge. One of the rumors was Lidge to Texas for Blalock. If that trade happens they will attempt a deal that would send Morgan Ensberg and Adam Everett to San Diego for Khalil Greene and Scott Linebrink

whitesoxfan
07-31-2006, 12:09 PM
BTW, Jayson Stark is reporting that Jason Schmidt is suddenly available in trade talks. I wonder if Kenny will make a last minute run at Schmidt.

Yeah, I've heard this too. I really hope Kenny is on the phone trying to work something out with San Fran for Schmidt.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 12:16 PM
I'd love to get Schmidt into our rotation, but would rather not trade McCarthy + Fields (the likely asking price).

If they would pull McCarthy and take Vazquez I'd probably do that, although I love Fields' potential.

We still really could not do that anyway unless we jetisoned another of our starters out the door as there would still be 6 starters.

If Kenny did a McCarthy/Fields for Schmidt swap I bet he'd then turn Garcia or Vazquez for a couple prospects to replinish much of what we lost. Kenny will trade prospects, but he also knows we have to keep the farm robust.

BanditJimmy
07-31-2006, 12:20 PM
I think Vazquez + cash & Fields can get us Schmidt and the deadline.

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 12:24 PM
WRONG

here is why it would have to be Freddy and not Vazquez for Schmidt

Vaz HATES the west coast. It is too far from his family in PR. He has the right to demand a trade coming up, and he WOULD invoke that in San Francisco. He wants to be back east, not more west.

samram
07-31-2006, 12:45 PM
The problem with Schmidt is he got his 10/5 rights last night. Maybe that won't be a problem for the Sox, but who knows?

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 12:48 PM
The problem with Schmidt is he got his 10/5 rights last night. Maybe that won't be a problem for the Sox, but who knows?

I don't think that would be a problem. Schmidt is a free agent at the end of the year, so he wouldn't be locked into staying here for the long haul. And I would think he would rather come to the defending World Champs for a World Series run than stay in San Fran and miss the playoffs.

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 12:48 PM
Levine reports that we are interested in Latroy Hawkins... Sounds like KW may not be done yet..

1917
07-31-2006, 12:49 PM
WRONG

here is why it would have to be Freddy and not Vazquez for Schmidt

Vaz HATES the west coast. It is too far from his family in PR. He has the right to demand a trade coming up, and he WOULD invoke that in San Francisco. He wants to be back east, not more west.

Giants are closer to 1st then we are, I can't see why they want to give up their #1 starter, granted he has been lousey lately....and I dont understand Javy thing for wantng to be close to home, they live in PR, no matter he goes, he will be far from home, suck it up buddy, your getting paid millions upon millions.

1917
07-31-2006, 12:49 PM
Levine reports that we are interested in Latroy Hawkins... Sounds like KW may not be done yet..

YUCK! :o:

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 12:51 PM
Levine reports that we are interested in Latroy Hawkins... Sounds like KW may not be done yet..

What? That has to be a joke....Why do we need that guy?

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 12:52 PM
I don't know. I found the rumor and thought I would post it here..

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 12:53 PM
WRONG

here is why it would have to be Freddy and not Vazquez for Schmidt

Vaz HATES the west coast. It is too far from his family in PR. He has the right to demand a trade coming up, and he WOULD invoke that in San Francisco. He wants to be back east, not more west.
As it has been stated many times here Javy gave up that right when we got him from Arizona.

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 12:53 PM
Someone on another Sox forum said that is what he said, whether it happens or not I seriously doubt that they were joking.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 12:53 PM
I don't know. I found the rumor and thought I would post it here..


Fair enough, but you may well give people heart failure if we are going after a guy who mops up in Baltimore. Just think, it may only cost us Lance Broadway. :tongue:

MadetoOrta
07-31-2006, 12:53 PM
Levine reports that we are interested in Latroy Hawkins... Sounds like KW may not be done yet..

Maybe they'll take Javy!

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 12:55 PM
I know Javy gave up the formal right, I should have said this more clearly, He is still going to piss and moan in SF like he did in AZ. No one on the west coast wants anything to do with him.

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 12:56 PM
Just curious.. What do you guys think about The Astros supposedly wanting to get rid of Lidge?

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 12:58 PM
Just curious.. What do you guys think about The Astros supposedly wanting to get rid of Lidge?

I think he'd be one hell of a setup man if the price is right. :thumbsup:

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 12:58 PM
reminds me of Billy Koch, big home run in the playoffs and cant shake it since.

I think he could be good but I wouldnt overpay for him.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 12:59 PM
Just curious.. What do you guys think about The Astros supposedly wanting to get rid of Lidge?

Not shocked. He hasn't been the same since Pujols did him in the NLCS and he still does have a great arm. Houston could add some pieces to the puzzle by dealing him, but I don't see where Qualls or whomever would be any better.

They need a bat, and fast...Lidge may be the one guy that can get them one.

StatHead21
07-31-2006, 12:59 PM
Just curious.. What do you guys think about The Astros supposedly wanting to get rid of Lidge?

He's still throwing 99 with a nasty slider, any team would love to have him. I highly doubt they'll move him unless someone blows their socks off with an offer.

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 01:00 PM
I agree. I think if you get Lidge away from Houston, and let him have a new start he would be alot better. I wish KW would find a way for this to happen if the deal is right..

samram
07-31-2006, 01:01 PM
I think he'd be one hell of a setup man if the price is right. :thumbsup:
I wouldn't mind a trade for Lidge, but I just wonder if he's been broken this year and maybe beyond with his 5.77 ERA. On the other hand, maybe a change of scenery and a different role will set him right. It wouldn't be the first time it happened.

kevingrt
07-31-2006, 01:02 PM
I agree. I think if you get Lidge away from Houston, and let him have a new start he would be alot better. I wish KW would find a way for this to happen if the deal is right..

Would you get rid of a starting pitcher for him and move B-Mac to the starting rotation? I would be all for the move I just think a solid pitching prospect with Lidge would be perfect. Vazquez for Lidge and a pitching prospect would be pretty neat. And seeing McCarthy out there every fifth day would be good too.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:02 PM
The Astros owner has ordered Lidge be moved by the deadline= value way down. KW get in there Broadway or Liotta plus another prospect or 2.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 01:03 PM
Houston won't trade Lidge unless they get a proven bat in return.

StatHead21
07-31-2006, 01:04 PM
Wilkerson and Barajas for Lidge is the reported trade on the table, Jon Hart should be arrested for larceny if he pulls that one off.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 01:07 PM
Wilkerson and Barajas for Lidge is the reported trade on the table, Jon Hart should be arrested for larceny if he pulls that one off.

Agree with you. That trade sounds like it came from some drunken fantasy league player. This deal won't happen.

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 01:07 PM
I got this from another forum. Here is what they said..

The 1 pm update on 1000 said the White Sox still have a standing offer out there to the Nationals for Soriano, but it's believed to be not good enough. And that KW is "checking into" the availability and price for Latroy Hawkins.

Offman on 670 just said KW may add another reliever.

So that's the latest, at least from Chicago radio, two hours to go.

MadetoOrta
07-31-2006, 01:07 PM
Did anyone notice ESPN Rumor Central makes a comment about the Red Sox being denied in their pursuit of MARK BUEHRLE? What's that about? Is that the BS Coco Crisp trade? LOL! Crisp for Buehrle? Doesn't Theo respect KW?

StatHead21
07-31-2006, 01:09 PM
Did anyone notice ESPN Rumor Central makes a comment about the Red Sox being denied in their pursuit of MARK BUEHRLE? What's that about? Is that the BS Coco Crisp trade? LOL! Crisp for Buehrle? Doesn't Theo respect KW?

If Buehrle were dealt they'd get a lot more than Coco Crisp.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 01:10 PM
I got this from another forum. Here is what they said..

The 1 pm update on 1000 said the White Sox still have a standing offer out there to the Nationals for Soriano, but it's believed to be not good enough. And that KW is "checking into" the availability and price for Latroy Hawkins.

Offman on 670 just said KW may add another reliever.

So that's the latest, at least from Chicago radio, two hours to go.


Adding another reliever makes no sense unless there is a 2nd trade involved.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:13 PM
OK, Pure Speculation.....

There is no rumors to go along with this, just my own thoughts.

Why isnt Carlos Zambrano's name being mentioned for rumors at least.

Cubs signed him to a 1 year deal before this year and he will be unrestricted at the end of the year. Going to command and be worth 10mil+.

You would think they would want to restock and reset for 2007.




As much as I have hated that guy in the Cubs uniform, my feelings would change quickly if he was to pitch for the White Sox.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 01:15 PM
Because you don't trade someone as good as Zambrano. You build around people like that.

He is what Prior was supposed to be...a stud, a stopper, an ace. For all the Cubs issues, Zambrano isn't one of them.

If I was running the Cubs, he'd be completely untouchable. One of the best right arms in baseball.

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 01:16 PM
I think he is still arbitration eligiable. I dont think he is in his walk year. Maybe you are thinking of Prior, who reworked his deal to become an FA sooner.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:16 PM
Because you don't trade someone as good as Zambrano. You build around people like that.

He is what Prior was supposed to be...a stud, a stopper, an ace. For all the Cubs issues, Zambrano isn't one of them.

If I was running the Cubs, he'd be completely untouchable. One of the best right arms in baseball.

Then why are they not trying to sign him to an extension all year long? Before he hits the open market?

I know the answer, yes, because they are the Cubs.

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 01:16 PM
Why isnt Carlos Zambrano's name being mentioned for rumors at least.

Cubs signed him to a 1 year deal before this year and he will be unrestricted at the end of the year. Going to command and be worth 10mil+.

You would think they would want to restock and reset for 2007.



Zambrano still has one more year of arbitration left. He won't be a free agent until after the 2007 season.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:16 PM
I think he is still arbitration eligiable. I dont think he is in his walk year. Maybe you are thinking of Prior, who reworked his deal to become an FA sooner.

He already was through arbitration.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8163646

Dick Allen
07-31-2006, 01:17 PM
Please, not LaTroy Hawkins.

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2006, 01:17 PM
I got this from another forum. Here is what they said..

The 1 pm update on 1000 said the White Sox still have a standing offer out there to the Nationals for Soriano, but it's believed to be not good enough. And that KW is "checking into" the availability and price for Latroy Hawkins.

Offman on 670 just said KW may add another reliever.

So that's the latest, at least from Chicago radio, two hours to go.Levineline and Offman...two of the most reliable sources in the business.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:17 PM
I got this from another forum. Here is what they said..

The 1 pm update on 1000 said the White Sox still have a standing offer out there to the Nationals for Soriano, but it's believed to be not good enough. And that KW is "checking into" the availability and price for Latroy Hawkins.

Offman on 670 just said KW may add another reliever.

So that's the latest, at least from Chicago radio, two hours to go.
This gonna sound crazy but lets say Soriano isn't dealt before 3:00 cause Wash doesn't get what they feel is fair, should the Sox claim him off waivers? That would mean they can only deal with us thus putting KW in the catbird seat.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:18 PM
Zambrano still has one more year of arbitration left. He won't be a free agent until after the 2007 season.

Maybe I am misunderstanding it then.

Prior to 2005, he went through arbitration.

Prior to 2006, he agreed to a 1 year contract.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060211&content_id=1309997&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 01:18 PM
Then why are they not trying to sign him to an extension all year long? Before he hits the open market?

I know the answer, yes, because they are the Cubs.


Good question. How do we know they aren't trying to tie him up in a longer term deal?

They would be completely foolish to deal him. Heck, I'd surely try to get him if I could, but the price for the White Sox would be a kings ransom. No way would the Cubs even think about dealing a guy like that who could anchor our rotation for the next 5 years...

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2006, 01:20 PM
Maybe I am misunderstanding it then.

Prior to 2005, he went through arbitration.

Prior to 2006, he agreed to a 1 year contract.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060211&content_id=1309997&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chcYou can go through arbitration multiple times. You have to have six years of service time to be a FA. Zambrano has 4+.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:20 PM
Good question. How do we know they aren't trying to tie him up in a longer term deal?

They would be completely foolish to deal him. Heck, I'd surely try to get him if I could, but the price for the White Sox would be a kings ransom. No way would the Cubs even think about dealing a guy like that who could anchor our rotation for the next 5 years...
I have to be wrong about the arbitration. He would have to be a bigname guy being thrown around otherwise. Jjav probably has the details.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:21 PM
You can go through arbitration multiple times. You have to have six years of service time to be a FA. Zambrano has 4+.

Ok, well there you have it. Sorry for wasting 5 minutes of everyones time.

Flame On!

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 01:22 PM
Maybe I am misunderstanding it then.

Prior to 2005, he went through arbitration.

Prior to 2006, he agreed to a 1 year contract.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060211&content_id=1309997&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

The last 3 years of a players initial 6 years under contract are arbitration years. Each year they can either agree to a deal or go to arbitration. Sometimes teams will sign the player to a long-term deal and avoid it all together. Other times they take it year-to-year if both parties can't agree to a long-termd deal.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 01:22 PM
I know we don't like Zambrano here, but the guy is nasty, filthy as hell. Heck, he makes Jeremy Bonderman look like a chump. He's the equal to those twins pitchers.

We don't have a guy like this on our rotation. If the Cubs wanted to deal him, I'd open up the discussions at any moment, but I've seen enough of him pitch to know what the Flubs have there.

Even THEY can't be stupid enough to screw that one up (I believe they are idiots for thinking about dealing Ramirez).

Ol' No. 2
07-31-2006, 01:22 PM
This gonna sound crazy but lets say Soriano isn't dealt before 3:00 cause Wash doesn't get what they feel is fair, should the Sox claim him off waivers? That would mean they can only deal with us thus putting KW in the catbird seat.First of all, the Gnats haven't put Soriano on waivers. Second, even if they did the Sox would be near the end of the line in claim priority. Only Boston, NYY and Detroit would be behind them.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:24 PM
First of all, the Gnats haven't put Soriano on waivers. Second, even if they did the Sox would be near the end of the line in claim priority. Only Boston, NYY and Detroit would be behind them.
Well, other than remotely possibly us, I think only Boston or NYY would be able to pay him.

Minnesota will not and can not dish that $$ out.

102605
07-31-2006, 01:25 PM
I know we don't like Zambrano here, but the guy is nasty, filthy as hell. Heck, he makes Jeremy Bonderman look like a chump. He's the equal to those twins pitchers.

We don't have a guy like this on our rotation. If the Cubs wanted to deal him, I'd open up the discussions at any moment, but I've seen enough of him pitch to know what the Flubs have there.

Even THEY can't be stupid enough to screw that one up (I believe they are idiots for thinking about dealing Ramirez).


Why are you starting Zambrano rumors???? :smile:

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:25 PM
Could be great news for the SOX. I thnk BBTN just had Sutcliffe on and he said after the Abreu deal yesterday the RSox locker room was devastated. If they don't feel they can win then its between us and the Twins for the Wild Card. Jayson Stark just reported the Nationals are desperate to move Soriano and that they have 2 offers on the table they can go with now, 1 AL, 1 NL. He thinks its Twins but considering what I read earlier about the Score report maybe the AL team is our very own Sox.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:27 PM
First of all, the Gnats haven't put Soriano on waivers. Second, even if they did the Sox would be near the end of the line in claim priority. Only Boston, NYY and Detroit would be behind them.
I thought on August 1st every player is put on Waivers? I wish they would just extend the deadline to the end of August the waiver line makes no sense.

kwolf68
07-31-2006, 01:27 PM
I think maybe the Sox may still be in play for Soriano and that Kenny is just letting the market become a BUYERS market.

If the Gnats want to move him well then they are running out of options and the clock is indeed ticking. Our offer may be the Gnats fallback offer. It's not what they want, but they'll take it and still get something out the deal.

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 01:27 PM
This gonna sound crazy but lets say Soriano isn't dealt before 3:00 cause Wash doesn't get what they feel is fair, should the Sox claim him off waivers? That would mean they can only deal with us thus putting KW in the catbird seat.

If they're going to deal Soriano, it will be before the deadline today. If Bowden thinks he can't get fair value now, just wait until he gets stuck dealing with the 1 team that wins the waiver claim.

This is probably going to be one of those deals that gets announced right around 3:00 p.m. as Bowden settles for the best thing he can get.

If they don't deal Soriano today, then they are probably serious about wanting to re-sign him.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:29 PM
If they're going to deal Soriano, it will be before the deadline today. If Bowden thinks he can't get fair value now, just wait until he gets stuck dealing with the 1 team that wins the waiver claim.

This is probably going to be one of those deals that gets announced right around 3:00 p.m. as Bowden settles for the best thing he can get.

If they don't deal Soriano today, then they are probably serious about wanting to re-sign him.
Why not get prospects now and sign him in the offseason?

whitesoxfan
07-31-2006, 01:30 PM
According to rotoworld:

ESPN's Jayson Stark says Nationals GM Jim Bowden currently has two offers he can take for Alfonso Soriano, one from an NL team, the other from an AL squad.

Jjav829
07-31-2006, 01:31 PM
Why not get prospects now and sign him in the offseason?

Because there is no guarantee he comes back. Maybe he goes someplace else and realizes there are better places to play or falls in love with his new team/city/etc.

I'm not I agree with that line of thinking, but that's why they wouldn't do it.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:31 PM
According to Buster Olney Brad Lidge is now not available

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 01:33 PM
The A.L. squad was said to be The Twins I believe.. Gosh I do not want The Twins to get him... Eh that will be bad..

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 01:34 PM
I hate this last hour and half, get all worked up, hope something big happens, when it doesnt feel sad,

Now watch Sandy Alomar hit a home run in the playoffs to win a crucial game.

whitesoxfan
07-31-2006, 01:34 PM
The A.L. squad was said to be The Twins I believe.. Gosh I do not want The Twins to get him... Eh that will be bad..

Yeah rotoworld did say that, but they just guessed it was the Twins. I thought it was interesting because Levineline said that the Sox still have an offer on the table for Soriano, hence the 1 team in the AL interested in him.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:35 PM
The A.L. squad was said to be The Twins I believe.. Gosh I do not want The Twins to get him... Eh that will be bad..
They get Soriano who stops them? They will out-pitch everyone. Adding Soriano to Mauer and Morneau would be sick. If they are close please Kenny move in and block even if BMAC must be moved.

MadetoOrta
07-31-2006, 01:37 PM
Just read on cnnsi.com that Freddie Garcia would welcome a trade to the Mets because he likes the thought of pitching "in a major market." Gosh, I hate the east coast!

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 01:37 PM
Some reporter called in on The Score and said Kenny isn't going to make any deals this late in the game... Sounds like we may be dissapointed... Eh figures.

Beer Can Chicken
07-31-2006, 01:38 PM
The A.L. squad was said to be The Twins I believe.. Gosh I do not want The Twins to get him... Eh that will be bad..

Coupled with the Yankees move yesterday, it will be very bad indeed. ESPECIALLY if we stand pat.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:39 PM
Just read on cnnsi.com that Freddie Garcia would welcome a trade to the Mets because he likes the thought of pitching "in a major market." Gosh, I hate the east coast!
Ya with cities like Chicago being your home you don't get the major market feel :rolleyes:

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 01:39 PM
If he stands still I just want to know... What the heck is he thinking? The Yankees made a move, and it looks like The Twins may get Soriano... Show you want to do something to improve the team and get somebody.

Madvora
07-31-2006, 01:40 PM
Some reporter called in on The Score and said Kenny isn't going to make any deals this late in the game... Sounds like we may be dissapointed... Eh figures.A reporter?
Stick around WSI a little longer and you'll learn that we are the only ones that seem to know what's going on. (Acutally, not us... only KW)

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:40 PM
If he stands still I just want to know... What the heck is he thinking? The Yankees made a move, and it looks like The Twins may get Soriano... Show you want to do something to improve the team and get somebody.
No because Bmac is God!

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 01:42 PM
if we keep brandon because hes the next big thing, I just really hope he ends up better then Kip Wells (who was the next big thing years ago)

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:43 PM
if we keep brandon because hes the next big thing, I just really hope he ends up better then Kip Wells (who was the next big thing years ago)
Kind of like Ruffcorn and Rausch.

Credefan21
07-31-2006, 01:43 PM
Around here he is.. God forbid say anything negative about the guy. People base their opinions on him from last year, and fail to see that he hasn't been that great this year. His relief appearance the other day proved that even more. I don't know if its cause he isn't starting or what, but he hasn't been as great.

Madvora
07-31-2006, 01:43 PM
Just read on cnnsi.com that Freddie Garcia would welcome a trade to the Mets because he likes the thought of pitching "in a major market." Gosh, I hate the east coast!
Now that's just weird, not the comment about the major market, but the talk about welcoming a trade.
- Does he want to go?
- Does he think he's going to go?
- Has KW talked to him about this?
- Does he even have any right to welcome a trade (no trade clause?)

Domeshot17
07-31-2006, 01:45 PM
75 minutes...

chaotic8512
07-31-2006, 01:46 PM
Looks like the Twins may miss out on Soriano... SI.com is saying it's down to the Angels, A's, and Dodgers... take it for what it's worth.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/07/31/daily.scoop/index.html

StatHead21
07-31-2006, 01:46 PM
I got a feeling the Red Sox are going to do something huge.

getonbckthr
07-31-2006, 01:48 PM
Looks like the Twins may miss out on Soriano... SI.com is saying it's down to the Angels, A's, and Dodgers... take it for what it's worth.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/07/31/daily.scoop/index.html
Its not the A's they were told they don't have enough "Bullets"

pauliemyhero14
07-31-2006, 01:48 PM
I think the sox need to trade Vasquez or either put him in the pen. Brandon McCarthy needs to be given a shot at starting. Hes had one start all year. He needs another chance. Right now i would rather have Charlie Haeger, Lance Broadway, Kyle McCoulgh, and a whole lot of other minor leaguers start before Javy. The sox i believe will trade one of their starters in the offseason.

Madvora
07-31-2006, 01:50 PM
The sox i believe will trade one of their starters in the offseason.
One or two for sure. I wouldn't mind sending Vazquez and/or Garcia sent off next year. I actually think that's likely to happen anyway.
That's not going to help for this year though.