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chisoxmike
07-24-2006, 10:59 PM
Yikes. Not good folks.:mad:

Frater Perdurabo
07-24-2006, 11:00 PM
Well, Brian Anderson just connected, so this thread is just a bit premature....

:)

102605
07-24-2006, 11:00 PM
Anderson hits 2 run HR


I see this is the post game thread.

PeteWard
07-24-2006, 11:00 PM
It's not over yet.:angry:

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:01 PM
oops:redface:

Just a matter of time now.

BadBobbyJenks
07-24-2006, 11:01 PM
postgame threads usually happen post game right?

Blueprint1
07-24-2006, 11:01 PM
what can you say? I know we have the talent to win. We just need to get back on track.

HartmanSox
07-24-2006, 11:01 PM
It's not over yet.:angry:

:rolleyes: we're out of homeruns sir, and therefore out of runs period.

patbooyah
07-24-2006, 11:01 PM
Well, 5 earned runs in 6 innings. 2 homers in the sixth inning and left with men on second and third with no outs in the seventh. ugly.

throw in some poor hitting and we have ourselves a night.

haven't won two games in a row for almost 3 weeks.

meanwhile, brian anderson seems to be coming right along. that was a nice homer.

call me a dark cloud, but this just isn't fun to watch. hopefully we can win against santana tomorrow and it will get momentum going in our direction.

i have faith! central division champs or bust!!!

Rdubb4
07-24-2006, 11:02 PM
Who DIDDNT know the game was over after Mauers blast?

Jjav829
07-24-2006, 11:02 PM
I can't wait to hear tonight's Vazquez excuses....:rolleyes:

Ditka311
07-24-2006, 11:02 PM
Is patheticism a word? Because if it is, the Sox are mired in it right now.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:02 PM
Well, now I can turn to the Boston and Oakland game and hope Boston is los.....oh..they're up 4-0.

Uncle_Patrick
07-24-2006, 11:02 PM
I'm more dissappointed in the offense than in Vazquez, to be honest.

HK Chicago
07-24-2006, 11:03 PM
Ugh, the season got a lot shorter after today's games.

If the Sox continue to play .602,
and Detroit continues to play .677,
and we go 10-0 against Detroit...
Detroit 103-59
Chicago 102-60

Good trade today (solidify the current professional club above all else) so this team better put it together and seal the wild card. I'm not ashamed to repeat coming from 2nd place.

Deuce
07-24-2006, 11:03 PM
There is only one word that truly sums up what I am feeling right now, it is...

"PopoZow"

MushMouth
07-24-2006, 11:03 PM
This is beyond ridiculous - Javy has a 7+ ERA since June 1. There is no longer an argument to keep him in the rotation - he's just as bad as the '03 and '04 5th starters combined. Either put McCarthy in the rotation or trade for another starter, but this has to stop. :angry::angry:

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:04 PM
Back to 2004. Pitching sucks. Homers--yay.

Palehose13
07-24-2006, 11:04 PM
Well, 5 earned runs in 6 innings. 2 homers in the sixth inning and left with men on second and third with no outs in the seventh. ugly.

throw in some poor hitting and we have ourselves a night.

haven't won two games in a row for almost 3 weeks.

meanwhile, brian anderson seems to be coming right along. that was a nice homer.

call me a dark cloud, but this just isn't fun to watch. hopefully we can win against santana tomorrow and it will get momentum going in our direction.

i have faith! central division champs or bust!!!

Pat,

I would really love it if you could grasp what a dark cloud really is. You have some optimism in there, while still venting some frustration. Of course, all of us are frustrated right now and your post was nothing like a dark cloud. So please, stop making dark cloud references almost everytime you post

Thank you. :wink:

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:04 PM
Yeah..if the offense was clicking AT ALL, Vazquez wouldn't have had to press so hard. We were talking..it's a vicious cycle. Pitchers think they have to be perfect and therefore are far from it.
Hitters think they have to score a ton of runs and therefore do not. The pressing continues.

soxyess
07-24-2006, 11:04 PM
Theres very little room for anymore of this garbage baseball. If this team doesnt start playing like its capable of playing. There will not be any playoffs. This twinkies team with its pitching, and fundamentaly sound play is dangerous.

BadBobbyJenks
07-24-2006, 11:04 PM
Bring on the 300 posts we are sure to see because we lost. I cant wait for the negative energy to run wild. Come on pessimists and dark clouds show yourselves. I love it when you analyze..



The Javier blow up is no longer amusing, maybe a change is in order

jenn2080
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
WOW I dont even have words. Neal looks like Maddux in the dug out....Javy blows yet another game and the Sox can not up with anything offensively. I am beyond frustrated. At least Brian has been coming out to play. Nice 2 run HR

WhiteSox1983
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
Im startin to get worried, our pitching is horrible and our bats are so inconsistent.

rowand33
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
man, I thought this was gonna be a great game in the 5th inning.

how dumb I was.

Vazquez needs to be out of the rotation. B.Mac can't be worse.

SoxShirt
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
Brian Anderson makes me happy. :D: Javier Vazquez makes me mad. :angry:

TheDarkGundam
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
I have a vague memory of...something...you know, the sox would score more runs than the other team...then they would like...what was it, "not lose the game". I think they called it "Wunning"...no, "winning". That's it, winning.

kittle42
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
2004, welcome back. You were missed.

slobes
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
What is it about the 3rd time through the order that Vasquez has such a hard time with? He was cruising until the 6th.

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
Yeah..if the offense was clicking AT ALL, Vazquez wouldn't have had to press so hard. We were talking..it's a vicious cycle. Pitchers think they have to be perfect and therefore are far from it.
Hitters think they have to score a ton of runs and therefore do not. The pressing continues.

Pitchers need to make pitches. Vazquez and Cotts did not.

stl_sox_fan
07-24-2006, 11:05 PM
The only bright spot of that game would be a roster opening for someone else to have 33 on the back of their uniform.

Another good performance by BA tonight. Glad to see him turning it around.

jenn2080
07-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Bring on the 300 posts we are sure to see because we lost. I cant wait for the negative energy to run wild. Come on pessimists and dark clouds show yourselves. I love it when you analyze..



The Javier blow up is no longer amusing, maybe a change is in order


I dont understand why I would anyone would have warm fuzzies right now. Do you? We cant string Christmas lights together let alone more then 1 win I am not waiting until Garland pitches again to win another game.

PeteWard
07-24-2006, 11:06 PM
This is beyond ridiculous - Javy has a 7+ ERA since June 1. There is no longer an argument to keep him in the rotation - he's just as bad as the '03 and '04 5th starters combined. Either put McCarthy in the rotation or trade for another starter, but this has to stop. :angry::angry:

I really think McCarthy gets the next start. Cooper has to have seen enough.

As for Cotts grooving the 3-1 with first base open....where was Ozzie on that call?

Anyway, I still think the Sox will win the next two. If only Cleveland's pitching could show up the next two games.:mad:

patbooyah
07-24-2006, 11:06 PM
The Javier blow up is no longer amusing, maybe a change is in order

that's enough to be called a dark cloud. that's the problem.

It's Time
07-24-2006, 11:06 PM
7.5 out. I really can't believe this team has gone in the tank this hard. Not sure what caused this team to go south but it's now 3-10 in the last 13 games.

Tragg
07-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Vasquez is consistent. Game after game he throws 4 or 5 solid early innings, and then gives up 2 or 3 gopher balls....the damage is dependent upon the number of runners on in front of the gopher pitches.
He was pitching like this before our offense struggled....and he's pressing extra hard because of the O, it proves what many suspect...he's a head-case. His job is to pitch...good pitchers pitch well, regardless of the runs scored offensively.
Time to start stretching out McCarthy...our rotation needs a shakeup. And vasquez, if he pitches like he does early, might do fine in the pen.

Jjav829
07-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Yeah..if the offense was clicking AT ALL, Vazquez wouldn't have had to press so hard. We were talking..it's a vicious cycle. Pitchers think they have to be perfect and therefore are far from it.
Hitters think they have to score a ton of runs and therefore do not. The pressing continues.

There is no vicious cycle. Vazquez also sucked when the offense was rolling.

whitesoxfan
07-24-2006, 11:07 PM
I'm more dissappointed in the offense than in Vazquez, to be honest.

Agreed. Even though Javy imploded in the blink of an eye, we were only down by 1. Why Ozzie didn't take him out in the 7th was beyond me...our offense needs to stop swinging for the fences. It seems like EVERYONE is trying to connect on a 5-run homer. Let's get back to basics..a win against Santana tomorrow night would be a step in the right direction.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:07 PM
Im startin to get worried, our pitching is horrible and our bats are so inconsistent.
Well, the bats haven't been inconsistent until this last month. Before then, they were dynamite, and that masked the deficiencies in pitching. When both aren't working, it's nasty.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-24-2006, 11:07 PM
I'm more dissappointed in the offense than in Vazquez, to be honest.

I'm with you. They just can't move anyone around without a homer. That said, I was glad for BA.

A. Cavatica
07-24-2006, 11:07 PM
I think it's all been said, so I hope we don't get anywhere near 300 posts.

Let's try just letting this thread die!

Get 'em tomorrow.

Ol' No. 2
07-24-2006, 11:07 PM
I'm more dissappointed in the offense than in Vazquez, to be honest.I'm with you, and it's not just tonight. Their hitting with runners on has been abysmal. Until Brian's HR in the 9th, not a single Sox baserunner scored.

If I see one more solo HR I'm going to puke.

JermaineDye05
07-24-2006, 11:07 PM
well do you guys think Brandon's ready to move into the rotation, he couldnt do worse then Javy

MushMouth
07-24-2006, 11:07 PM
Yeah..if the offense was clicking AT ALL, Vazquez wouldn't have had to press so hard. We were talking..it's a vicious cycle. Pitchers think they have to be perfect and therefore are far from it.
Hitters think they have to score a ton of runs and therefore do not. The pressing continues.

Javy hasn't pitched well for 10 starts. The offense has been both good and bad in that stretch - this has a whole lot to do with a mentally fragile pitcher.

vernhillssoxfan
07-24-2006, 11:08 PM
Hitting is coming back to were it needs to be. Was that not Anderson's first homerun since early on in the season?

Tomorrow will be tough fight but I am sure Jose will get the W.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:09 PM
There is no vicious cycle. Vazquez also sucked when the offense was rolling.
Oh...I'm with you. I hated the Javy trade when it happened. For a moment, I thought that Coop could do something with him, but then that quickly faded.

I'm just talking about the entire pitching staff when I make that statement. However, if the Sox have a 3 or 4 run lead, they could pull Vazquez before things get really bad. Oh wait...they didn't do that, did they??

1917
07-24-2006, 11:09 PM
1. This wasn't all Vazquez fault, he let up 3 runs, our offense was once again sub par

2. Can we end the Ross Gload tour? I mean C'mon Ozzie, this is an important series, unless JD came up and asked for today off for whatever reason, then there is no excuse for playing Gload over Dye in a game like this.

CLR01
07-24-2006, 11:09 PM
Yeah..if the offense was clicking AT ALL, Vazquez wouldn't have had to press so hard. We were talking..it's a vicious cycle. Pitchers think they have to be perfect and therefore are far from it.
Hitters think they have to score a ton of runs and therefore do not. The pressing continues.

Please, Vazquez has been giving run away like candy since the beginning of the year.


If only they could have scored 8 runs. :rolleyes:

JermaineDye05
07-24-2006, 11:09 PM
I'm with you, and it's not just tonight. Their hitting with runners on has been abysmal. Until Brian's HR in the 9th, not a single Sox baserunner scored.

If I see one more solo HR I'm going to puke.

I know this is just ridiculous, it pains me to say this but we're playing like the cubs excluding the errors

Brian26
07-24-2006, 11:09 PM
Pat Boyle needs to do his homework. He just said twice that the Sox, up until tonight, haven't hit a homer since last Tuesday. Didn't Iguchi hit one yesterday?

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:09 PM
Hitting is coming back to were it needs to be. Was that not Anderson's first homerun since early on in the season?

Tomorrow will be tough fight but I am sure Jose will get the W.

Sounds like something a Cubs fan would say.

kittle42
07-24-2006, 11:09 PM
Bring on the 300 posts we are sure to see because we lost. I cant wait for the negative energy to run wild. Come on pessimists and dark clouds show yourselves. I love it when you analyze..



The Javier blow up is no longer amusing, maybe a change is in order

2-8 since the break. 3-10 against playoff caliber teams (if you think Texas is one, and 2-8 if you don't) in the last 13. 1-3 on the homestand.

The moves yesterday and today made by Williams are a start, but it's on-the-field performance that's the biggest problem right now. Lack of clutch hitting and just generally getting on base. Poor pitching again. This is highly problematic.

Every day, so many people here say "something has gotta be done" or "they have to snap out of it," etc., etc.

Well, Sox, we're waiting.

bluestar
07-24-2006, 11:10 PM
This is beyond ridiculous - Javy has a 7+ ERA since June 1. There is no longer an argument to keep him in the rotation - he's just as bad as the '03 and '04 5th starters combined. Either put McCarthy in the rotation or trade for another starter, but this has to stop. :angry::angry:

It just isn't that simple. McCarthy is not ready to be a starter, unless Ozzie starts him for maybe three or four innings and then builds from there. This is a bad time of year to be trying to stretch a reliever into a starter.

As far as trading for a starter, who is available that would be any better than Vazquez? No one is trading quality starters.

BadBobbyJenks
07-24-2006, 11:10 PM
that's enough to be called a dark cloud. that's the problem.



I have been labeled too big of an optimist, if I was ever called a dark cloud, I would have a good chuckle...Ive defended Javy start after start, but no more excuses.



Jenn: No I am not cheery, but I still dont understand the mindset of some people who flock to the boards after losses and have nothing to say when we win. It is mindboggling really.

Brian26
07-24-2006, 11:10 PM
2. Can we end the Ross Gload tour? I mean C'mon Ozzie, this is an important series, unless JD came up and asked for today off for whatever reason, then there is no excuse for playing Gload over Dye in a game like this.

Dye struck out four times yesterday. Maybe a day off isn't the worst thing in the world.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:11 PM
The thing about Javy that REALLY pisses me off is how much he's costing us.
I cannot for the life of me see why he stays in the rotation. Oh, yeah..I know. It's because he makes TOO DAMN MUCH MONEY TO BE IN THE PEN!

EdHerman12
07-24-2006, 11:12 PM
:vazquez: <------ATTENTION! MISSING STARTING MLB PITCHER ABLE TO THROW 7+ STRONG INNINGS...IF SEEN PLEASE CONTACT CHICAGO WHITE SOX!

:KW <----- Kenny's got some work to do!

Damn shame tonight! :gulp: <----"My advice to you is to drink heavily"

GO SOX!

kittle42
07-24-2006, 11:12 PM
2. Can we end the Ross Gload tour? I mean C'mon Ozzie, this is an important series, unless JD came up and asked for today off for whatever reason, then there is no excuse for playing Gload over Dye in a game like this.

Gload, a day after the Sox took extra bunting practice, laid down two sacrifice bunts which led to Sox runs yesterday. Were you complaining about him then?

Dye went 0-4 with 4 Ks yesterday. He got a day off, and Gload was "rewarded" for showing his teammates how to actually bunt. Big whoop.

Palehose13
07-24-2006, 11:12 PM
2-8 since the break. 3-10 against playoff caliber teams (if you think Texas is one, and 2-8 if you don't) in the last 13. 1-3 on the homestand.

The moves yesterday and today made by Williams are a start, but it's on-the-field performance that's the biggest problem right now. Lack of clutch hitting and just generally getting on base. Poor pitching again. This is highly problematic.

Every day, so many people here say "something has gotta be done" or "they have to snap out of it," etc., etc.

Well, Sox, we're waiting.

Yeah, all of a sudden I'm not thrilled about my 200 mile round trip to see the game tomorrow. Saving gas money sounds really nice right now.

DSpivack
07-24-2006, 11:12 PM
The thing about Javy that REALLY pisses me off is how much he's costing us.
I cannot for the life of me see why he stays in the rotation. Oh, yeah..I know. It's because he makes TOO DAMN MUCH MONEY TO BE IN THE PEN!

Or because we don't have a better alternative.

All else I can say is that tomorrow it's Jose vs. Santana. Exciting!

JB98
07-24-2006, 11:12 PM
Pat Boyle needs to do his homework. He just said twice that the Sox, up until tonight, haven't hit a homer since last Tuesday. Didn't Iguchi hit one yesterday?

Pods hit one as well.

oeo
07-24-2006, 11:13 PM
Didn't see the game, and I don't think I want to know what happened. Go get them tomorrow Jose!

Madvora
07-24-2006, 11:13 PM
I've made it until July 24th until a loss actually upset me... and this one really pissed me off.

The 2005 euphoria is starting to wear off already. It's time to get serious here.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:13 PM
A moment of sad levity...how about Gload's attempt at robbing that homer? Oh, my God. I spit out my beer and laughed a good minute or so before I thought about crying.

kittle42
07-24-2006, 11:13 PM
Yeah, all of a sudden I'm not thrilled about my 200 mile round trip to see the game tomorrow. Saving gas money sounds really nice right now.

I hear ya. Friday at the Cell was not a fun time, aside from getting drunk. :redneck

DrCrawdad
07-24-2006, 11:13 PM
Pat,

I would really love it if you could grasp what a dark cloud really is. You have some optimism in there, while still venting some frustration. Of course, all of us are frustrated right now and your post was nothing like a dark cloud. So please, stop making dark cloud references almost everytime you post

Thank you. :wink:

Thanks for the perspective. I love the Sox, from birth in 1964 till present. And because of that losses like this sure take a toll on me.

It's Time
07-24-2006, 11:13 PM
Is this team really 7.5 out? Seriously, it can't be true:o:

JB98
07-24-2006, 11:14 PM
Hitting is coming back to were it needs to be. Was that not Anderson's first homerun since early on in the season?

Tomorrow will be tough fight but I am sure Jose will get the W.

I'm glad you're sure. I'm confident Jose will pitch well, but our bats turn to noodles at the mere sight of Santana. Sometimes, I feel like he beats us before we even set foot on the field.

Brian26
07-24-2006, 11:14 PM
Yeah, all of a sudden I'm not thrilled about my 200 mile round trip to see the game tomorrow. Saving gas money sounds really nice right now.

If the season ends tonight, we're in the playoffs. You're already jumping off the bandwagon?

Norberto7
07-24-2006, 11:14 PM
Right now, Jon Garland is the team's best pitcher.

Right now, Brian Anderson is the team's best hitter.

Good news for them. However, as long as that stays up, the Chicago White Sox ain't going anywhere.

jenn2080
07-24-2006, 11:15 PM
I have been labeled too big of an optimist, if I was ever called a dark cloud, I would have a good chuckle...Ive defended Javy start after start, but no more excuses.



Jenn: No I am not cheery, but I still dont understand the mindset of some people who flock to the boards after losses and have nothing to say when we win. It is mindboggling really.


Sure I agree and had this been a random few losses I would agree with you but this has been a ****ing nighmare. We got Javy giving away runs left and right we got Neal throwing **** in the dugout cuz he gave up a 3 run HR. I have always turned my tv off during a loss just to avoid frustration but this has got out of hand now. We not going out there and me meeting our potential.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-24-2006, 11:15 PM
Granted, I only saw the game through my GameDay updating box score, but why was Vazquez trotted back out there after giving up the two HRs?

Hindsight is 20-20, but why send him back out for the 6th even? Figure you are lucky to have gotten 5 strong from him and call it a day.

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:15 PM
Is this team really 7.5 out? Seriously, it can't be true:o:

Time to think wildcard. I hope the Tigers beat the Twins this weekend to tell you the truth. Thus my signature....

peeonwrigley
07-24-2006, 11:15 PM
As depressing as the 6th was - we were only down 3-2 after it.

Two things:

1. The offense had the 4-5-6 coming up versus Cy BRadke. They have to sack up and string something together to pick up the team. AJ singled, no one else hit the ball well.

2. Ozzie should never, ever, have sent Vazquez back to the mound. That move is completely indefensible.

1917
07-24-2006, 11:15 PM
Gload, a day after the Sox took extra bunting practice, laid down two sacrifice bunts which led to Sox runs yesterday. Were you complaining about him then?

Dye went 0-4 with 4 Ks yesterday. He got a day off, and Gload was "rewarded" for showing his teammates how to actually bunt. Big whoop.

Yes I will, I know I will take heat for this, but I will continue to complain anytime I see Ross Gload in the starting lineup when we are in the middle of a huge slump, unless the player he is playing for is injured, sick, or has a family emergency. He does more harm then good at the plate.

southside rocks
07-24-2006, 11:16 PM
:vazquez: <------ATTENTION! MISSING STARTING MLB PITCHER ABLE TO THROW 7+ STRONG INNINGS...IF SEEN PLEASE CONTACT CHICAGO WHITE SOX!

:KW <----- Kenny's got some work to do!

Damn shame tonight! :gulp: <----"My advice to you is to drink heavily"

GO SOX!
Thank you, that handed me my first smile since the top of the 6th inning. These losses are making me sad ... :(:

On the post-game, Bill Melton just said he thinks Ozzie should take Vazquez out after 5 innings for a while, just so Javier can go out with his head held up.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:16 PM
Granted, I only saw the game through my GameDay updating box score, but why was Vazquez trotted back out there after giving up the two HRs?

Hindsight is 20-20, but why send him back out for the 6th even? Figure you are lucky to have gotten 5 strong from him and call it a day.
You find the answer to that one, please let us know. We've been wondering that for an hour or so.

vernhillssoxfan
07-24-2006, 11:16 PM
Sounds like something a Cubs fan would say.

You can rest assure that I am no where close to being a Cub fan.

I am looking at the positives I saw in the game tonight.

I am sorry that I offended you.:(:

oeo
07-24-2006, 11:17 PM
Time to think wildcard. I hope the Tigers beat the Twins this weekend to tell you the truth. Thus my signature....

Unbelievable. Wild Card my ass...this team will still win this division, you can whine and cry about losses like this all you want. They're slumping right now, and when they get out of it, I guarantee you that no one will want to stand in their way. This team is going to go on a tear, I don't give a **** what you say, the media says...this is the best team in baseball and no one will change that.

whitesoxfan
07-24-2006, 11:17 PM
Time to think wildcard. I hope the Tigers beat the Twins this weekend to tell you the truth. Thus my signature....

I am thinking wild card, but let's not throw the division under the bus just yet. We still play Detroit for like 11 games and what's going to happen when their offense goes in a funk like ours? Their pitching has struggled lately and I definitely see them going on a losing streak in less than 2 weeks...write it down too.

soxwon
07-24-2006, 11:17 PM
If the season ends tonight, we're in the playoffs. You're already jumping off the bandwagon?


Would YOU really want tonights team in the playoffs?
Think about it.

southside rocks
07-24-2006, 11:18 PM
Granted, I only saw the game through my GameDay updating box score, but why was Vazquez trotted back out there after giving up the two HRs?

Hindsight is 20-20, but why send him back out for the 6th even? Figure you are lucky to have gotten 5 strong from him and call it a day.
Probably because one of the many odd things about Vazquez is that after his 'one-bad-inning-itis' strikes, he is sometimes perfectly okay for another couple of innings.

Tonight he wasn't.

MushMouth
07-24-2006, 11:18 PM
It just isn't that simple. McCarthy is not ready to be a starter, unless Ozzie starts him for maybe three or four innings and then builds from there. This is a bad time of year to be trying to stretch a reliever into a starter.

As far as trading for a starter, who is available that would be any better than Vazquez? No one is trading quality starters.

I'm sick of hearing about stretching him out - stretch him out already! If it takes a week, then do it...

And we wouldn't need a quality starter to improve on Vazquez - with his ERA creeping towards 6 and his inability to throw 6 innings without blowing a gasket, I'd rather see Haeger out there for gods sake.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:18 PM
Yes I will, I know I will take heat for this, but I will continue to complain anytime I see Ross Gload in the starting lineup when we are in the middle of a huge slump, unless the player he is playing for is injured, sick, or has a family emergency. He does more harm then good at the plate.
Gload was brought in for his defense. Period. You didn't see that near-robbing that he made on that homer?

HE BARELY JUMPED AND RAN HIS GLOVE INTO THE PADDING, KNOCKING IT LOOSE!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man, that was the highlight of the night.

Viva Medias B's
07-24-2006, 11:18 PM
Just a tough loss. That's all. Let's get this thing turned around.

Rdubb4
07-24-2006, 11:18 PM
Unbelievable. Wild Card my ass...this team will still win this division, you can whine and cry about losses like this all you want. They're slumping right now, and when they get out of it, I guarantee you that no one will want to stand in their way. This team is going to go on a tear, I don't give a **** what you say, the media says...this is the best team in baseball and no one will change that.

Remember, its only a slump if you eventually get out of it.

DickAllen72
07-24-2006, 11:18 PM
Time to start stretching out McCarthy...our rotation needs a shakeup. And vasquez, if he pitches like he does early, might do fine in the pen.

I've been saying this for a while now. Vazquez belongs in the Sox bullpen --- or starting for someone else. McCarthy's future is as a starter. The future is now.

santo=dorf
07-24-2006, 11:18 PM
I miss the Pods from May. He just isn't useful anymore. :(:

Palehose13
07-24-2006, 11:19 PM
If the season ends tonight, we're in the playoffs. You're already jumping off the bandwagon?

No. I'm not jumping off the bandwagon. I'm just not as psyched to go to the game as I usually am and to be honest, I don't really have the $80 for gas money for the trip. I'm one of the closest things this board has to a Pollyanna and while I do believe that the Sox will make the playoffs, they are sure playing like **** and trying my patience.

With that said...Go Sox!

cheezheadsoxfan
07-24-2006, 11:19 PM
Jenn: No I am not cheery, but I still dont understand the mindset of some people who flock to the boards after losses and have nothing to say when we win. It is mindboggling really.

Misery loves company! I think people are trying to make themselves feel better by talking it out or venting. Don't need that so much when they win.

Tragg
07-24-2006, 11:19 PM
I'm with you, and it's not just tonight. Their hitting with runners on has been abysmal. Until Brian's HR in the 9th, not a single Sox baserunner scored.

If I see one more solo HR I'm going to puke.
Is that a result of lack of clutch hitting, or poor plate discipline and no one getting on base?
This solo home run stuff is what we suffered 2004 and before.

whitesoxfan
07-24-2006, 11:19 PM
Would YOU really want tonights team in the playoffs?
Think about it.

Yes. The playoffs are a whole new season. I like our chances in a short series better than any other team out there.

samram
07-24-2006, 11:19 PM
Gload was brought in for his defense. Period. You didn't see that near-robbing that he made on that homer?

HE BARELY JUMPED AND RAN HIS GLOVE INTO THE PADDING, KNOCKING IT LOOSE!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Man, that was the highlight of the night.

Webgem if I ever saw one.

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:19 PM
Unbelievable. Wild Card my ass...this team will still win this division, you can whine and cry about losses like this all you want. They're slumping right now, and when they get out of it, I guarantee you that no one will want to stand in their way. This team is going to go on a tear, I don't give a **** what you say, the media says...this is the best team in baseball and no one will change that.

Please don't tell me we're turning into Cubs fans. Wake up and smell the coffee, Junior. No pitching, no playoffs.

DickAllen72
07-24-2006, 11:19 PM
And we wouldn't need a quality starter to improve on Vazquez - with his ERA creeping towards 6 and his inability to throw 6 innings without blowing a gasket, I'd rather see Haeger out there for gods sake.

Me too.

ND_Sox_Fan
07-24-2006, 11:20 PM
You find the answer to that one, please let us know. We've been wondering that for an hour or so.

To top it off, the 'pen basically had the day off yesterday and MacDougal is coming tomorrow - use the damn pen Ozzie.

stl_sox_fan
07-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Ozzie, Coop and the whole coaching staff need to sit them down tonight and remind them that they could be TIED for second when this series ends. If that doesn't light a fire under them, I'm not sure what else will.

Let's hope for another good outing from Jose tomorrow.

SluggersAway
07-24-2006, 11:20 PM
We have a good bullpen, lets work them when the starter can't go 6 innings, or else why are they even there?

patbooyah
07-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Pat,

I would really love it if you could grasp what a dark cloud really is. You have some optimism in there, while still venting some frustration. Of course, all of us are frustrated right now and your post was nothing like a dark cloud. So please, stop making dark cloud references almost everytime you post

Thank you. :wink:
i'm sorry. i just get so frustrated on this board when people start calling true fans dark clouds. to the point of me wanting to just leave.

for instance, dr. crawdad was called a dark cloud today in the game thread. he has been posting here forever. long before the sox were an amazing team last year. it seems insulting, dismissive, petty and rude.

i know we've rehashed this, but i still feel like some people throw the label around too easily. i promise my next post will not mention the word dark cloud. in fact, i don't think i'll ever mention the word again!

love,
pat [:wink: back atcha]

bigsqwert
07-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Unbelievable. Wild Card my ass...this team will still win this division, you can whine and cry about losses like this all you want. They're slumping right now, and when they get out of it, I guarantee you that no one will want to stand in their way. This team is going to go on a tear, I don't give a **** what you say, the media says...this is the best team in baseball and no one will change that.Win the division?!?! What are you basing that on? The fact that they had a great 2005 season?

Lip Man 1
07-24-2006, 11:21 PM
OEO:

I admire your determination...I'll give you that. If wishing made things come true I've no doubt that we'd never have to worry a day again about the Sox.

-----

Well...at least Javier is consistent....not much else to say...back to 'home run or nothing' derby I guess.

Maybe they can somehow beat Santana tomorrow. If they don't pull out of this and quick, they'll be out of the wild card lead by the weekend.

Lip

Iguana775
07-24-2006, 11:21 PM
I still dont get why in the hell did Vazquez go out there for the 7th, let alone the damn 6th. after about 12 times of blowing up past the 5th, you'd think Ozzie would have realize that Vazquez isnt good past the 5th right now.

JB98
07-24-2006, 11:21 PM
Would YOU really want tonights team in the playoffs?
Think about it.

Yes, I would want tonight's team in the playoffs. It is always better to be in the playoffs than on the golf course.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:22 PM
We have a good bullpen, lets work them when the starter can't go 6 innings, or else why are they even there?
Well, Cotts answered that one. Even the 'pen is pressing. Look at Jenks the other night. It's so contagious.

Palehose13
07-24-2006, 11:22 PM
Would YOU really want tonights team in the playoffs?
Think about it.
I can't believe this. I agree with soxwon 100%.

This leads me to the conclusion that something is terribly wrong with the world. :o: :wink:

samram
07-24-2006, 11:22 PM
Unbelievable. Wild Card my ass...this team will still win this division, you can whine and cry about losses like this all you want. They're slumping right now, and when they get out of it, I guarantee you that no one will want to stand in their way. This team is going to go on a tear, I don't give a **** what you say, the media says...this is the best team in baseball and no one will change that.

Man, I appreciate the optimism, but try not to swallow too much sand.

It's Time
07-24-2006, 11:23 PM
Unbelievable. Wild Card my ass...this team will still win this division, you can whine and cry about losses like this all you want. They're slumping right now, and when they get out of it, I guarantee you that no one will want to stand in their way. This team is going to go on a tear, I don't give a **** what you say, the media says...this is the best team in baseball and no one will change that.

No! They are NOT the best team in Baseball. Stop pretending everything is going to be fine. They are a good team but what is very apparent is that they lack the pitching right now.

If the lead was 2 games, I could see what you are saying. This team might be a playoff team but to call them the best in Baseball is not accurate, especially right now.

WSox8404
07-24-2006, 11:23 PM
Any chances of us DFAing Javy?

MushMouth
07-24-2006, 11:23 PM
I still dont get why in the hell did Vazquez go out there for the 7th, let alone the damn 6th. after about 12 times of blowing up past the 5th, you'd think Ozzie would have realize that Vazquez isnt good past the 5th right now.


Just looked it up - Vaz hasn't pitched through through a successfull 7th inning since May 18th, 12 starts ago... :o:

QCIASOXFAN
07-24-2006, 11:23 PM
I will still watch the Sox this year, but I will go into games expecting them to lose, and be happy if they win. Holy ****, gimme me a break. That is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Tragg
07-24-2006, 11:23 PM
Yes I will, I know I will take heat for this, but I will continue to complain anytime I see Ross Gload in the starting lineup when we are in the middle of a huge slump, unless the player he is playing for is injured, sick, or has a family emergency. He does more harm then good at the plate. He seems to be playing a lot more these days... don't know why, he's not a very good ballplayer. We also have Gload clones (at worst) in the minors...surely someone needs a backup 1B.

Palehose13
07-24-2006, 11:24 PM
i'm sorry. i just get so frustrated on this board when people start calling true fans dark clouds. to the point of me wanting to just leave.

for instance, dr. crawdad was called a dark cloud today in the game thread. he has been posting here forever. long before the sox were an amazing team last year. it seems insulting, dismissive, petty and rude.

i know we've rehashed this, but i still feel like some people throw the label around too easily. i promise my next post will not mention the word dark cloud. in fact, i don't think i'll ever mention the word again!

love,
pat [:wink: back atcha]

I try to avoid the game thread. Sounds like I made the right decision. :D:

jongarlandlover
07-24-2006, 11:24 PM
Wow. This thread has tons of replies already!

The game was bad. Javy cannot be kept in there for more than 5 innings, that's the most he can give. It's pathetic, but it's also the truth. I just wish Ozzie could realize that as well.

I'm not panicking about their playoff chances, at least not yet. They still have 2 months to catch up to Detroit.

bluestar
07-24-2006, 11:24 PM
I'm sick of hearing about stretching him out - stretch him out already! If it takes a week, then do it...

And we wouldn't need a quality starter to improve on Vazquez - with his ERA creeping towards 6 and his inability to throw 6 innings without blowing a gasket, I'd rather see Haeger out there for gods sake.

It's going to take more than a week. It would take maybe three or four starts at least. I'm not disagreeing with you, and the Sox may very well start the process after tonight's performance by Vazquez. I'm just saying this is a bad time of year to have to do it, because it tends to put even more stress on the bullpen. If the other four starters were all pitching lights out, it would be different.

Bringing up someone from AAA is different than trading for a starting pitcher in today's overpriced market. You didn't say they needed to call someone up; you said they needed to trade for a starting pitcher or move McCarthy to the rotation. I'm just saying it isn't that simple.

DSpivack
07-24-2006, 11:25 PM
Minnesota has won 32 of their last 40 games. You think that'll continue? At that rate Detroit would be a 2nd-place team. They'll slow down.

Every team slumps during a season, last year we did in August and September. This year we're doing it now. No, we're not playing great, but yeah we're still a much better team than Minnesota or New York or Toronto. As far as the Wild Card goes, those are the teams in it. We still can catch Detroit, too. I'd be worried if this was late September, and yet we'd still be in the WC lead. It's July.

samram
07-24-2006, 11:25 PM
He seems to be playing a lot more these days... don't know why, he's not a very good ballplayer. We also have Gload clones (at worst) in the minors...surely someone needs a backup 1B.

Well, some guys needed a break. I don't know why Mack couldn't play right, but whatever- he wasn't going to turn this into a W.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-24-2006, 11:26 PM
Vazquez sucked in the 6th & 7th. The White Sox lived and died with their offense in the first half and will live and die with their offense in the second half (check sig for details).

Cotts almost cleaned Vazquez' second mess but Mauer got the best of him and that was the ballgame.

Ozzie needs a tight leash and have someone ready in the 5th and 6th for the remaining Vazquez starts. He was clearly out of gas in Detroit and everyone saw it but Ozzie had nobody warming up. This time Cotts was warming up but two homers later we were down and he gave up two more hits to start the 7th which didn't help (Cotts should have started the 7th).

The bullpen was rested with the Sunday game. MacDougal is on the way.

Ozzie seems to leave people out of gas out there too long and pull effective relievers too soon for a match-up.

ilsox7
07-24-2006, 11:26 PM
No. I'm not jumping off the bandwagon. I'm just not as psyched to go to the game as I usually am and to be honest, I don't really have the $80 for gas money for the trip. I'm one of the closest things this board has to a Pollyanna and while I do believe that the Sox will make the playoffs, they are sure playing like **** and trying my patience.

With that said...Go Sox!

Just a suggestion, but have you looked into the train between Milwaukee and Chicago? May save you some big bucks.

Tragg
07-24-2006, 11:27 PM
It's going to take more than a week. It would take maybe three or four starts at least. I'm not disagreeing with you, and the Sox may very well start the process after tonight's performance by Vazquez. I'm just saying this is a bad time of year to have to do it, because it tends to put even more stress on the bullpen. If the other four starters were all pitching lights out, it would be different.
.It's not an ideal time, but we can't keep going the way we are going. He's an option, and an option that we wouldn't have to trade away all of our young players to try. We're not using Brandon in many really key spots right now anyway...he pitched a key, key game in Boston last year, so he can handle the pressure.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:27 PM
Best case scenario for this team is that they finally hit rock bottom, trail in the wild card by about 3 games, finally get things going again (remember..this team was regarded as the best in baseball 3 weeks ago), and fight their way into the playoffs, which would make them VERY dangerous. They might just need to stop thinking that they are the invulnerable 2005 Sox (Ozzie, especially) and get humbled until they get sick of it.

Worst case is....well, you know. Wondering if Devin Hester is a good pick.

Beer Can Chicken
07-24-2006, 11:27 PM
What bothers me about tonight's loss is that everybody knew when it was time to take Vasquez out. Well, everybody except Ozzie....

MushMouth
07-24-2006, 11:28 PM
It's going to take more than a week. It would take maybe three or four starts at least. I'm not disagreeing with you, and the Sox may very well start the process after tonight's performance by Vazquez. I'm just saying this is a bad time of year to have to do it, because it tends to put even more stress on the bullpen. If the other four starters were all pitching lights out, it would be different.

Bringing up someone from AAA is different than trading for a starting pitcher in today's overpriced market. You didn't say they needed to call someone up; you said they needed to trade for a starting pitcher or move McCarthy to the rotation. I'm just saying it isn't that simple.

I admit I don't understand the first thing about stretching-out a pitcher from bullpen to starter duty, but whatever the process is - lets do it. I mean, Vaz can only pitch 5 quality innings, and if it means we don't have to see Vaz start another game, then whatever we have to do to let McCarthy stretch out, lets do it. His future is a starter and we desperately need a starter right now, so they have to get this done.

If they run Vaz out there this weekend then they either have way too much faith in Vaz, or they're being stubborn.

jenn2080
07-24-2006, 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986
I will still watch the Sox this year, but I will go into games expecting them to lose, and be happy if they win.



Holy ****, gimme me a break. That is the stupidest thing I have ever read.


Wow what the **** is wrong with you? Are you a ****ing Cubs fan or something. Like I said right now we suck...we suck bad but if you are going to think that you might as well throw on a blue shirt and paint a big C on the front of it. This is the dumbest post.....almost EVER

Ol' No. 2
07-24-2006, 11:29 PM
Probably because one of the many odd things about Vazquez is that after his 'one-bad-inning-itis' strikes, he is sometimes perfectly okay for another couple of innings.

Tonight he wasn't.At least he wasn't getting beat on that weak-assed curve ball tonight. The ball that Cuddyer hit out was a pretty good pitch, low and in and breaking in some more, but Cuddyer just reached down and got it. The pitch Morneau hit out was the exact same changeup away he struck Mauer out with just a little while before. Sometimes you make a good pitch and get beat anyway. It's not as if he was leaving them out over the plate. So in spite of the two HR, I didn't think he pitched badly in the 6th. In the 7th he just lost it, but his pitch count was low, his velocity and location were good and there was no indication that I could see.

SluggersAway
07-24-2006, 11:30 PM
Some of the posts on here make it seem like September '05 all over again. Take a deep breath. They have time to right the ship. This isn't the end.

SOXfnNlansing
07-24-2006, 11:31 PM
we can start a big winning streak tomorrow! Things can only get better. I'm glad we're blowing this part of the season rather than like last year. All teams have bad streaks, even that Mariner team that won 116 games. They got cold in the playoffs.

Rdubb4
07-24-2006, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986
I will still watch the Sox this year, but I will go into games expecting them to lose, and be happy if they win.






Wow what the **** is wrong with you? Are you a ****ing Cubs fan or something. Like I said right now we suck...we suck bad but if you are going to think that you might as well throw on a blue shirt and paint a big C on the front of it. This is the dumbest post.....almost EVER

Hell, I feel that way about watching the Blackhawks, but this is two totally different situations.

Jjav829
07-24-2006, 11:31 PM
What bothers me about tonight's loss is that everybody knew when it was time to take Vasquez out. Well, everybody except Ozzie....

But Ozzie did know what was coming. He had Cotts warming in the 6th inning when Vazquez hadn't allowed a run and was around 75 pitches. Any other pitcher and we'd be looking for a complete game. But with Vazquez, the bullpen has to get ready in that situation.

Ozzie knew what was coming. But once it happened, he pressed his luck and sent Vazquez out there to start the 7th and let him put two more runners in without recording an out.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:33 PM
Some of the posts on here make it seem like September '05 all over again. Take a deep breath. They have time to right the ship. This isn't the end.
That's what I keep thinking. The one thing that concerns me is the September '05 was a lot more of a catastrophe, considering the overwhelming lead they almost blew. That pressure is extremely understandable.

This slump looks very 2001-2004. Absolutely listless play.

Just gotta hope they get back to playing their game.

QCIASOXFAN
07-24-2006, 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986
I will still watch the Sox this year, but I will go into games expecting them to lose, and be happy if they win.






Wow what the **** is wrong with you? Are you a ****ing Cubs fan or something. Like I said right now we suck...we suck bad but if you are going to think that you might as well throw on a blue shirt and paint a big C on the front of it. This is the dumbest post.....almost EVERSeriously, who says that, sure we suck at the moment but why would you watch a game thinking we are going to lose. But if we win you'll be happy. That is total Cub fan talk right there. Our team is not the ****ing cubs.

cburns
07-24-2006, 11:34 PM
What bothers me about tonight's loss is that everybody knew when it was time to take Vasquez out. Well, everybody except Ozzie....

Exactly what I have been thinking. Ozzie should have put Vazquez on a short leash a month ago. Have Vazquez go four and McCarthy go four, or just move Mac into the rotation.

Chisox1500
07-24-2006, 11:34 PM
Reminds me so much of 2003 that I'm having nasty flashbacks. Thome looks like Jose Mistako out there. He only seems to fest off of junk lately. Another tail between the legs loss.

There is hope though. Kenny knows this team isn't going to win this year by standing pat. Buerhle needs to get back on track for it to matter though.

peeonwrigley
07-24-2006, 11:34 PM
Some of the posts on here make it seem like September '05 all over again. Take a deep breath. They have time to right the ship. This isn't the end.

Its not, but that does not lower the standard to which the players and manager should be held. Ozzie mishandled Vazquez tonight, Cotts/AJ/Ozzie terribly mishandled pitching to Mauer (especially at 3-1), and the offense failed repeatedly to string hits/walks/anything together.

Yes, I think this team can and will get it together. But I understand the frustration and hangwringing over the recent losses, especially tonight.

samram
07-24-2006, 11:35 PM
Best case scenario for this team is that they finally hit rock bottom, trail in the wild card by about 3 games, finally get things going again (remember..this team was regarded as the best in baseball 3 weeks ago), and fight their way into the playoffs, which would make them VERY dangerous. They might just need to stop thinking that they are the invulnerable 2005 Sox (Ozzie, especially) and get humbled until they get sick of it.

Worst case is....well, you know. Wondering if Devin Hester is a good pick.

I've kind of wondered if they've thought themselves invincible too. Maybe losing the wildcard lead would be the real kick in the ass they need (assuming they need one), but I'd rather not have to find that out.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:35 PM
Exactly what I have been thinking. Ozzie should have put Vazquez on a short leash a month ago. Have Vazquez go four and McCarthy go four, or just move Mac into the rotation.
Having an 8 million per year middle reliever wouldn't be too good on KW's ego, or Jerry's pocketbook. That's why it won't happen.

Jjav829
07-24-2006, 11:37 PM
That's what I keep thinking. The one thing that concerns me is the September '05 was a lot more of a catastrophe, considering the overwhelming lead they almost blew. That pressure is extremely understandable.

This slump looks very 2001-2004. Absolutely listless play.

Just gotta hope they get back to playing their game.
September 05 was a lot different. We had a 15 game lead in the division at one point. Even though we had one of the worst slides in MLB history (maybe the worst, I don't believe any team with a 15 game lead after June ever let it get down to 1.5) we had enough of a cushion to survive it. This year we don't have that cushion. We aren't being chased; we are the chasers. There is no room for an extended period of bad play. We need to turn things around now.

Palehose13
07-24-2006, 11:37 PM
Just a suggestion, but have you looked into the train between Milwaukee and Chicago? May save you some big bucks.

Yes. Much bigger headache than what I want to deal with, but thanks for your suggestion. :smile:

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:37 PM
More than ever, this team REALLY needs Buehrle and Garcia to string 4-5 quality starts.

I trust Garland and Contreras will have solid seasons the rest of the way.

Vazquez is a lost cause. He needs to go to long relief.

This may be the most underachieving team in baseball. If they aren't there yet, they're well on their way. Time to start pitching.

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:38 PM
Having an 8 million per year middle reliever wouldn't be too good on KW's ego, or Jerry's pocketbook. That's why it won't happen.
This thought brings me to the next point. If Vazquez got moved to the bullpen, that would mean that we traded El Duque (who could be a great reliever...seen it) and minor league talent for an 8 million per year middle reliever. Ouch.

Viva Medias B's
07-24-2006, 11:39 PM
Having an 8 million per year middle reliever wouldn't be too good on KW's ego, or Jerry's pocketbook. That's why it won't happen.

That's a good point, but both KW and JR want to win more than anything else. Hence, they will swallow their pride and do what is in the best interests of winning, even if it means making Vazquez sit next to Cave (team nickname for Art Kusnyer, for those who do not know) during the game.

Chisox1500
07-24-2006, 11:39 PM
This is nothing like September 2005. This year's team should forget about the division right now. That ship seems to have sailed. Play for the wild card and quit trying to hit a homerun every at bat.

Deuce
07-24-2006, 11:40 PM
We need to turn things around now.I completely agree. August came early this year, and it's September from here on out. We either play to win, or we can plan on an early vacation.

cburns
07-24-2006, 11:40 PM
Having an 8 million per year middle reliever wouldn't be too good on KW's ego, or Jerry's pocketbook. That's why it won't happen.

Then move Vazquez for what you can get, or bite the bullet and put him in the bullpen. Either way KW is admitting a mistake.

WSox8404
07-24-2006, 11:40 PM
The think with Javy is, well he isn't that good. Look at his lifetime stats. He was pretty damn good in Montreal. But there was NO pressure there at all. And don't forget that is the NL and that when a team plays a Montreal they let their guard down and not play up their potential. That happens against suck teams. He sucked as a Yankee and then he even sucked when he went back to the NL for the D-Backs. There is nothing there that shows consistency. He has great stuff but so do a lot of other mediocre pitchers. In my opinion Brandon could be doing better. I just wish Kenny would have sniffed this out before the year started.

Tragg
07-24-2006, 11:41 PM
This thought brings me to the next point. If Vazquez got moved to the bullpen, that would mean that we traded El Duque (who could be a great reliever...seen it) and minor league talent for an 8 million per year middle reliever. Ouch.It's water under the bridge now. As of now, we traded El D, and minor league talent for a starter with an ERA in excess of 5.5. That's not pretty either. Right now, it looks like a horrible trade (I never really understood the reason for it...to get 6 starters) , but we can't rescind it, so we make the best of it however we can.

JB98
07-24-2006, 11:41 PM
More than ever, this team REALLY needs Buehrle and Garcia to string 4-5 quality starts.

I trust Garland and Contreras will have solid seasons the rest of the way.

Vazquez is a lost cause. He needs to go to long relief.

This may be the most underachieving team in baseball. If they aren't there yet, they're well on their way. Time to start pitching.

The club is playing over .600 ball. That's not underachieving. Go to the Tribe board if you want to talk about underachieving teams.

Ol' No. 2
07-24-2006, 11:42 PM
This is nothing like September 2005. This year's team should forget about the division right now. That ship seems to have sailed. Play for the wild card and quit trying to hit a homerun every at bat.How the hell do you "play for the wild card"???? Try not to win as many games as you can?:?::?::?:

Bobbo35
07-24-2006, 11:43 PM
I think everyone has to look at what this team has done when they have played well. Obviously they are in a slump much like last year. I read some of the messages on here and sit here thinking are you a Sox fan or were you there only when they were playing well. This team is filled with guys who want to win, know how to win and will get back to winning.

Go Sox!!!

bigsqwert
07-24-2006, 11:43 PM
How the hell do you "play for the wild card"???? Try not to win as many games as you can?:?::?::?:Heh. Excellent point. They just need to win as many games as they can and let the chips fall where they may.

rowand33
07-24-2006, 11:44 PM
This thought brings me to the next point. If Vazquez got moved to the bullpen, that would mean that we traded El Duque (who could be a great reliever...seen it) and minor league talent for an 8 million per year middle reliever. Ouch.

yeah, but at this poitn, who cares?

should we have not traded for Vazquez? obviously we shouldn't have.

but if the team is better off with B.Mac in the rotation and an 8 million dollar long reliever in the pen, so be it at this point.

Unless we find somebody to take on his contract, Vazquez's contract is a sunk cost. It should not be taken into consideration.

It's more profitable for the team to have an 8 million dollar long reliever than to miss the playofs.

1917
07-24-2006, 11:44 PM
This thought brings me to the next point. If Vazquez got moved to the bullpen, that would mean that we traded El Duque (who could be a great reliever...seen it) and minor league talent for an 8 million per year middle reliever. Ouch.

It seemed like such a great trade at the time too...but lets not forget, he is our 5th starter, not that it gives him the right to screw up, but he is 9-6 as our #5 guy...if he was our #1 or #2 guy (Wells and Ritchie) then yes he would be run out of town, but he was brought in to be the #5 guy.

Rdubb4
07-24-2006, 11:45 PM
Random thought from the game-

What the hell kind of signs were people holding up today? "Go Limestone" behind the plate? What was with the people who were holding up complete nonsense that was visible during RH at bats?

Jurr
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
How did she circumvent it. See I typed **** and it took it away. **** also is gone. Half of bull**** as well. Don't worry about others and let mods do their jobs ok?
There's more tension in here than a Barry Bonds piss test. I'm glad the new members get to see that being a WSI'er isn't all about "Ohhhhhhh smiles and sunshine...what a great time to be a Sox fan!"

We've been through this crap for several years, and 2005 was the exception to the rule. Also, we weren't even spared then, because of August and September.

October through June was probably the EASIEST time it has ever been to be on WSI. I'm glad the people who joined in that time finally get to see what makes this site so fun. It makes the winning mean something.

JB98
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
It seemed like such a great trade at the time too...but lets not forget, he is our 5th starter, not that it gives him the right to screw up, but he is 9-6 as our #5 guy...if he was our #1 or #2 guy (Wells and Ritchie) then yes he would be run out of town, but he was brought in to be the #5 guy.

He is our fifth starter, and Ozzie needs to start handling him as such. If we get five quality innings out of him, feel good about that and pull him. We've seen time and time again that you can't push your luck with Javy in the late innings. Other pitchers on this staff have earned that trust. Vazquez has not.

cburns
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
I have faith that Kenny will find a way to make things work whether or not Vazquez is traded. I think the bullpen will be a strong point of the rest of the season, and in turn will make the starting pitching better. The Sox will win the division.

Jjav829
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
It seemed like such a great trade at the time too...but lets not forget, he is our 5th starter, not that it gives him the right to screw up, but he is 9-6 as our #5 guy...if he was our #1 or #2 guy (Wells and Ritchie) then yes he would be run out of town, but he was brought in to be the #5 guy.

No, he wasn't. He was brought in to be the best pitcher he can be. And he has failed to do that. Forget about labeling him with some absurd number.

Besides, no one gives up what we did for a "#5" starter. And no "#5" starter makes what Vazquez makes. If we were just looking for a "#5" starter, we could have started Bmac or signed some cheap mediocre veteran like Paul Byrd.

Tragg
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
It seemed like such a great trade at the time too...but lets not forget, he is our 5th starter, not that it gives him the right to screw up, but he is 9-6 as our #5 guy...if he was our #1 or #2 guy (Wells and Ritchie) then yes he would be run out of town, but he was brought in to be the #5 guy.
Perhaps in the sense that he was #5 in order he was number 5...but you don't pay the high, high talent price we paid for him (and it was the usual premium price), or the salary, for a # 5 quality pitcher. That's a cop-out. We had a 5 - El D. If that's all we wanted, we shouldn't have made the deal.
What credentails he had to believe he was worth that talent or salary is another question...but not really relevant right now.

sox1970
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
How the hell do you "play for the wild card"???? Try not to win as many games as you can?:?::?::?:

As far as the team is concerned, they can only try to win the game they are playing that day. It's easy for fans to say "go for the division" or "go for the wildcard". In either case, it's stupid. They can only play the best they can any given game. If they are good enough, they'll be in the playoffs one way or the other. If they aren't good enough, we'll bust out the 2005 DVDs and think about 2007.

BadBobbyJenks
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
We got Macdougal today, the bullpen is going to be lights out.

We have Jose Contreras pitching tomorrow.

The world is not over. The season is not over. Detroit has not won the division.

Good to see we are half way to 300 already....


But I will admit this game is making me put down a few:gulp: unexpectedly...


get off the ledge do a little :gulp: and calm down everyone

WSox8404
07-24-2006, 11:48 PM
He is our fifth starter, and Ozzie needs to start handling him as such. If we get five quality innings out of him, feel good about that and pull him. We've seen time and time again that you can't push your luck with Javy in the late innings. Other pitchers on this staff have earned that trust. Vazquez has not.

If Ozzie starts treating Javy the same way Jerry treated Garland I would love it.

jongarlandlover
07-24-2006, 11:50 PM
Random thought from the game-

What the hell kind of signs were people holding up today? "Go Limestone" behind the plate? What was with the people who were holding up complete nonsense that was visible during RH at bats?

So that's what that sign said? I was wondering about that the whole time...that's rather stupid.

The one bright spot for me was Brian's homerun. That's it, the rest of the game pretty much depressed me.

rowand33
07-24-2006, 11:50 PM
It seemed like such a great trade at the time too...but lets not forget, he is our 5th starter, not that it gives him the right to screw up, but he is 9-6 as our #5 guy...if he was our #1 or #2 guy (Wells and Ritchie) then yes he would be run out of town, but he was brought in to be the #5 guy.

1) I agree that it was a good trade at the time. I would never fault Kenny for making it. sometimes you roll the dice and see what you're going to get. we got a lemon. it happens.

2) that "he's our 5th starter" excuse does not work with me. I don't care about the record. He has an ERA of 5.31.

1-5, a starter's job is supposed to be to give the team a chance to win. I don't think Javy is in the business of doing that.

And I know a lot of other team would love to have a 5th starter like Javy even with the problems. well, let's make a trade with one of those teams if they love javy so much. he's terrible. he was terrible in NY, he was terrible in Arizona, and he's terrible here.

Lip Man 1
07-24-2006, 11:53 PM
Bad Bobby:

Right now I think Detroit has to lose the division by imploding. They are totally in the drivers seat.

Noticed this from the 'official' AP recap of the loss: "The sellout crowd booed Vazquez on his way to the dugout and let him hear it again in the seventh, after Bartlett's double put runners on second and third with none out."

That's Buehrle and Vasquez just in the past week. While some may disagree with it, I have no issues with fans booing.

Lip

WSox8404
07-24-2006, 11:55 PM
Bad Bobby:

Right now I think Detroit has to lose the division by imploding. They are totally in the drivers seat.

Noticed this from the 'official' AP recap of the loss: "The sellout crowd booed Vazquez on his way to the dugout and let him hear it again in the seventh, after Bartlett's double put runners on second and third with none out."

That's Buehrle and Vasquez just in the past week. While some may disagree with it, I have no issues with fans booing.

Lip

Me neither.

DrCrawdad
07-24-2006, 11:57 PM
i'm sorry. i just get so frustrated on this board when people start calling true fans dark clouds. to the point of me wanting to just leave.

for instance, dr. crawdad was called a dark cloud today in the game thread. he has been posting here forever. long before the sox were an amazing team last year. it seems insulting, dismissive, petty and rude.



Thanks Pat!

If someone wants to label me and toss around insults fine. I remember cutting out articles from the Daily News in the off-season because I was convinced each year the Sox were gonna do it. Last season was an absolute dream come true for me. I'm pissed when they lose and tonight I was very disheartened by the loss. That said I'm not giving up on the team. I'll have hope until they're eliminated, as I've had for all my life.

GO - GO WHITE SOX!!!

Bring home a winner for Palehouse13!!!

whitesoxwilkes
07-24-2006, 11:58 PM
Random thought from the game-

What the hell kind of signs were people holding up today? "Go Limestone" behind the plate? What was with the people who were holding up complete nonsense that was visible during RH at bats?

Jim Thome went to Limestone HS downstate.

MadetoOrta
07-24-2006, 11:58 PM
Something's missing folks. Do we steal bases anymore? We're down 5-2 to Texas in the 4th inning last week with runners at 1st and 2nd and no one out with Uribe up. What did he do? Popped it up. Incredible. Last year I took great pride in the fact that the Sox LEAD THE MAJOR LEAGUES IN SACRIFICE BUNTS. Where are we today? We look like a softball team. Someone needs to turn over the post game spread.

Palehose13
07-24-2006, 11:59 PM
Thanks Pat!

If someone wants to label me and toss around insults fine. I remember cutting out articles from the Daily News in the off-season because I was convinced each year the Sox were gonna do it. Last season was an absolute dream come true for me. I'm pissed when they lose and tonight I was very disheartened by the loss. That said I'm not giving up on the team. I'll have hope until they're eliminated, as I've had for all my life.

GO - GO WHITE SOX!!!

Bring home a winner for Palehouse13!!!

C'mon now Doc! While I have gained a little around the middle, I'm not quite as big as a house...yet. :wink:

Rdubb4
07-24-2006, 11:59 PM
Jim Thome went to Limestone HS downstate.

That makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying. I played sports in HS and never once heard of Limestone, but I guess its true you learn new things every day.

SluggersAway
07-25-2006, 12:00 AM
MESSAGE TO OZZIE:

He is our fifth starter, and Ozzie needs to start handling him as such. If we get five quality innings out of him, feel good about that and pull him. We've seen time and time again that you can't push your luck with Javy in the late innings. Other pitchers on this staff have earned that trust. Vazquez has not.

Let McCarthy, Thornton, etc. take the game from the 6th on. I am sure they all can handle a few extra innings every 5 games.

Bobbo35
07-25-2006, 12:00 AM
Look at it this way, the Sox play Detroit 10 more times and they play the twinkies 11 more times. Good thing is it is more into August and September. Do you think they will be playing like they are now, I dont think so.

DrCrawdad
07-25-2006, 12:03 AM
C'mon now Doc! While I have gained a little around the middle, I'm not quite as big as a house...yet. :wink:

OOPS! As I'm sure you understand, that was unintentional.

Palehose13
07-25-2006, 12:06 AM
OOPS! As I'm sure you understand, that was unintentional.

Of course I understand. If I didn't you wouldn't have been able to write that. :D:

DrCrawdad
07-25-2006, 12:06 AM
Bad Bobby:

Right now I think Detroit has to lose the division by imploding. They are totally in the drivers seat.

Noticed this from the 'official' AP recap of the loss: "The sellout crowd booed Vazquez on his way to the dugout and let him hear it again in the seventh, after Bartlett's double put runners on second and third with none out."

That's Buehrle and Vasquez just in the past week. While some may disagree with it, I have no issues with fans booing.

Lip

Fans can and will do what they want. I can't controll it. I don't let it bother me too much.

I boo lack of effort and/or bad attitude. So far at least I don't think Buehrle or Javy have done either.

Jaime Navarro was the type of player I boo.

WSox8404
07-25-2006, 12:07 AM
I HATE THE CUBS WITH A PASSION. I AM VENTING MY FRUSTRATION BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE SOX ARE PLAYING LIKE THEY HAVE BLUE AND WHITE PINSTRIPES AND A RED C ON THEIR UNIFORMS. I AM SICK OF MEDIOCRITY. I WANT THE SOX TO BE A CONSISTENT WINNER; THE YANKEES OF THE 21ST CENTURY. BEFORE I AM DEAD I WANT TO SEE AT LEAST 8 MORE BANNERS IN THE CELL OR THEIR NEW PARK, PREFERABLY ABOUT 15.
I AM GETTING PHYSICALLY SICK BECAUSE I LOVE THIS TEAM SO MUCH AND IT HURTS TO SEE THEM LOSE LIKE THIS. I AM THINKING THIS WAY BECAUSE I AM TRYING TO DETACH MYSELF THIS YEAR. CUBS FANS ARE LOSERS WITH A CAPITAL L. I WILL ASSURE YOU I AM NOT A CUB FAN AND NEVER WIL BE.


I LIKE TYPING IN CAPS TOO!.... wait, no I don't.

DrCrawdad
07-25-2006, 12:07 AM
Of course I understand. If I didn't you wouldn't have been able to write that. :D:

Good point.

Jurr
07-25-2006, 12:08 AM
I HATE THE CUBS WITH A PASSION. I AM VENTING MY FRUSTRATION BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE SOX ARE PLAYING LIKE THEY HAVE BLUE AND WHITE PINSTRIPES AND A RED C ON THEIR UNIFORMS. I AM SICK OF MEDIOCRITY. I WANT THE SOX TO BE A CONSISTENT WINNER; THE YANKEES OF THE 21ST CENTURY. BEFORE I AM DEAD I WANT TO SEE AT LEAST 8 MORE BANNERS IN THE CELL OR THEIR NEW PARK, PREFERABLY ABOUT 15.
I AM GETTING PHYSICALLY SICK BECAUSE I LOVE THIS TEAM SO MUCH AND IT HURTS TO SEE THEM LOSE LIKE THIS. I AM THINKING THIS WAY BECAUSE I AM TRYING TO DETACH MYSELF THIS YEAR. CUBS FANS ARE LOSERS WITH A CAPITAL L. I WILL ASSURE YOU I AM NOT A CUB FAN AND NEVER WIL BE.
Oh...we're getting close. I can feel the windup starting.

WSox8404
07-25-2006, 12:09 AM
Oh...we're getting close. I can feel the windup starting.

Do you sense a twang?

Jerko
07-25-2006, 12:14 AM
Well, Javy ALMOST made it thru the order twice. We know the 3rd time thru is the killer for him, but of course, the 8 and 9 hitters got to him 2 batters early. Again with the 8 and 9 hitters. 6-8 I think they were tonight. The turning point tonight IMO was actually when small ball worked for the Sox. Pods bunts Anderson to 3rd with one out (I still hate bunting with a man on 2nd and nobody out, but that's another story), and Iguchi and Thome leave him there. 2 guys to watch out for in this lineup, and they both went long. (Mauer, Morneau). Giving up about 150 hits to Tyner, Bartlett, Punto, and Cuddyer didn't help either. What is it with this team when they play shells of other teams?? Yanks kill us without Damon, Cano, Sheffield, and Matsui, and now we lose to the Twins without Hunter, Ford, and Stewart. ****in Tyner got 3 hits tonight?? I guess tomorrow will be Tiffee's or Rabe's turn to be Ty Cobb. Well, we have what, 9 or 10 weeks left? Pick up a game a week and they can still do this, but it's getting frustrating watching EVERY team near us win. Even worse when they're winning against us. 1-6 vs. Twins, Yanks, and Tigers in the past week and a half or so. Time to suck it up guys, not stink it up.

MrX
07-25-2006, 12:16 AM
Wow I just wasted, I mean spent, a half hour reading all 12 pages:smile:

I agree leaving Vazquez in to pitch the 7th was dumb, but the pitches he gave up the lead on weren't that bad. You have to give credit to the Twins hitters for those. They were nothing like those meatball hanging breaking balls he was serving to the Tigers last week.

Cotts is lucky letting inherited runners score doesn't count against his ERA, it would be about double what it is now.

I understand wanting to reward Gload for the bunts yesterday, but giving him a starting spot when the team is struggling is just stupid. Why won't he let Mack play in the corner outfield positions? Other than the comedy of watching him try and catch Morneau's homerun he brings nothing.

The offense's inability to score a runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs is beyond frustrating.

alohafri
07-25-2006, 12:18 AM
Yeah..if the offense was clicking AT ALL, Vazquez wouldn't have had to press so hard. We were talking..it's a vicious cycle. Pitchers think they have to be perfect and therefore are far from it.
Hitters think they have to score a ton of runs and therefore do not. The pressing continues.

Come on! Vazquez sucks. Admit it! There is no pressing, no "I'm worried about the offense,". The man can pitch one time through the lineup, then he NEEDS TO BE PULLED!

alohafri
07-25-2006, 12:20 AM
It seemed like such a great trade at the time too...but lets not forget, he is our 5th starter, not that it gives him the right to screw up, but he is 9-6 as our #5 guy...if he was our #1 or #2 guy (Wells and Ritchie) then yes he would be run out of town, but he was brought in to be the #5 guy.

This smells like 2004 when we didn't have a win out of our #5 guy until August! Vaz has morphed into Danny Wrong!

Lip Man 1
07-25-2006, 12:22 AM
MadetoOrta:

Amazingly as of a few days ago the Sox were second in the league in successful sacrifice bunts.

However I think the majority of those came in the first two and a half months. A few days ago a poster stated that he checked the box scores and the Sox only had one successful sacrifice for the first 21 days of July.

That's is so far removed from 'Ozzie-Ball' it's not even in the same area code.

Hal put it best...it's home run or nothing derby time.

If they don't correct it, with the pitching issues, they'll probably hang around 20-22 games over .500 for the season. Not bad... but frankly a big disappointment I think to most who had this club good enough in talent to take consecutive post season berths for the first time in franchise history.

Lip

Jerko
07-25-2006, 12:24 AM
One last point. It seems to me as if the Sox think they can just "show up" and automatically win, and when the other team doesn't just lay down and roll over for them, they go into full panic mode like they didn't expect a challenge. That bugs me. How else do you explain never being able to get the worst hitters in the other team's lineup out, or giving up runs right after they score, or sucking EVERY time you pitch past the fifth inning, etc. It's like they "relax" after they score or get the top 6 guys out. Then before you know it the 7 thru 9 hitters start the hit parade, an errant walk to the one or 2 guy, and when the big guys come up for that third AB, boom, the big home run hits. Keep the focus Sox!!!!! Don't let up at "easy" points of the game or after something good happens. It's killing you right now. Hawk says "we haven't even played well yet". Well, game 100 is right around the corner, let's start.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2006, 12:28 AM
Jerko:

I agree with you. The signs pointed to this 'attitude' since spring training when Ozzie called a meeting after four games to discuss 'effort.'

I'm not saying they don't care but it's human nature to 'let down' after you've won it all. I don't like it, I don't agree with it but I guess I can understand it.

It's shown up repeatedly against bad teams which is why they have so many losses to the Royals, Indians, Cubs, Pirates, Devil Rays and so forth.

If I knew what the answer was I'd let Ozzie know. The only thing I could suggest is that since the bottom is falling out recently he's got nothing to lose by benching folks a la Eddie Stanky for mental and physical errors.

Lip

Deuce
07-25-2006, 12:30 AM
It was around the end of the sixth inning when I finally said to myself:

"Maybe. Just maybe my boys can protect the lead. Yeah, and maybe I'm a Chinese jet pilot." :redneck

TornLabrum
07-25-2006, 12:33 AM
Just got back from the game. The only good things I took away from it were that Anderson is still hitting and that after the game was over, Ozzie said that next time Vazquez pitches, if he has a lead after five, he's going to pull him.

I knew we were in trouble when we had Anderson on third with one out and we couldn't get him in.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2006, 12:35 AM
Cotts sure seems to be smashing a lot of things in the dugout lately. If he'd just stop throwing that meatball down the middle of the plate he could relax.

Deuce
07-25-2006, 12:35 AM
The only good things I took away from it were that Anderson is still hitting and that after the game was over, Ozzie said that next time Vazquez pitches, if he has a lead after five, he's going to pull him.The only question I have is why it took him over half the season to realize that. We all knew it in late May/early June. Some before.

peeonwrigley
07-25-2006, 12:37 AM
Just got back from the game. The only good things I took away from it were that Anderson is still hitting and that after the game was over, Ozzie said that next time Vazquez pitches, if he has a lead after five, he's going to pull him.

I knew we were in trouble when we had Anderson on third with one out and we couldn't get him in.

Interesting Ozzie said that. I wanted him to act on it, but not necessarily say it because now Javy is probably going to pitch the 5th like he's closing a game.

Like I've said - the 6th inning pissed me off, but it was the 7th that killed us. There was no reason Javy should have been sent back out there. I don't want him pitching with Politte like confidence.

Deuce
07-25-2006, 12:38 AM
Cotts sure seems to be smashing a lot of things in the dugout lately. If he'd just stop throwing that meatball down the middle of the plate he could relax.Or if they would stop bringing him on with runners on third and second with no outs. Seems Cotts has been put in when the game is about to topple over. He can't walk the guy, so he has to throw strikes. They know it, so they swing for the fences.

DickAllen72
07-25-2006, 12:39 AM
Something's missing folks. Do we steal bases anymore?

Well, Soriano can steal bases... :cool:

Lip Man 1
07-25-2006, 12:45 AM
I don't know what to make of Cotts.

He's not Politte but apparently last year was, shall we say, one of those seasons when everything went right for him and perhaps it's unrealistic to expect that again.

Lip

DSpivack
07-25-2006, 12:55 AM
I don't think there is a lack of focus on this team. The hardest thing to do in sports is to repeat. I think they need to let up and relax a bit, but in this situation going down the stretch in a tight race I don't know how possible that is. You have to have a happy medium of being alert and focused but not too overly stressed, otherwise you start pressing. It's not quite chemistry, but having a loose enough clubhouse goes a long way. So I don't know if the answer is for Ozzie to yell at them, they might just need to loosen up a bit.

Tragg
07-25-2006, 12:56 AM
I knew we were in trouble when we had Anderson on third with one out and we couldn't get him in. Yall see the games, but it seems like that is happening a lot more this season than last...lack of execution, particularly with a runner on 3rd and 1 out or 2nd and no outs.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2006, 01:04 AM
I don't know what to make of Cotts.

He's not Politte but apparently last year was, shall we say, one of those seasons when everything went right for him and perhaps it's unrealistic to expect that again.

Lip

I think that Cotts is a specialist and nothing more. He throws a fastball and slider at around the same speed. That being said, he hasn't been used properly at times this year. Sometimes he's brought in with ducks on/no out, or left in too long e.g. Yankee game two friday's ago.

WhiteSox1983
07-25-2006, 01:10 AM
Although it would be nice to have soriano, i dont think its that crucial. I think we could get into the playoffs if ozzie would pull the strings on some pitchers, and we can get some reliable relief pitching. He leaves them pitchers out there until they have given up the lead. I knew he shoulda taken vasquez out earlier.

What do you guys think about using mccarthy more outta the pen, like if vasquez pitched five or six innings, bring in mccarthy to finish the job until jenks can get in?

BeefyD
07-25-2006, 01:14 AM
Random thought from the game-

What the hell kind of signs were people holding up today? "Go Limestone" behind the plate? What was with the people who were holding up complete nonsense that was visible during RH at bats?

I was asking the wife the same question!!! "Go Limestone"??? And the people behind the right-handed batters had some "RIP Freddie"/"He did it his way"/"Stay Short" sign... weird....

Maybe I'll buy scout seats so I can plug my own gig...


EDIT: Sorry... only got thru 11 pages then replied... should've finished the thread..
Also, another disgusting game... The team I went to see yesterday was the stuff of old. Today, just junk. Seeing Javy in the 7th was like watching Politte jog from the pen...

EDIT 2: And we really can't blame Cotts... I'd be angry having to go in with 0 outs and men on 2nd and 3rd. I almost thought he had 'em. Good try at least.

Chicken Dinner
07-25-2006, 01:15 AM
What do you guys think about using mccarthy more outta the pen, like if vasquez pitched five or six innings, bring in mccarthy to finish the job until jenks can get in?

I think it would be hard to find anybody that would leave Javy in for the third time through the order.

MrX
07-25-2006, 01:24 AM
Sometimes he's brought in with ducks on/no out, or left in too long e.g. Yankee game two friday's ago. That's been the case with everyone in the bullpen. All season Ozzie has been leaving the starters in for too long and then expecting the bullpen to get out of these jams. Neal Cotts doen't have the stuff to get out of jams. You need someone who can get a strikeout to come into pitch in that situation.

If only we had a lefty in the pen that could do that? hmmmm

kitekrazy
07-25-2006, 01:36 AM
I know this is just ridiculous, it pains me to say this but we're playing like the cubs excluding the errors

I wish we were playing like the Cubs are now,

BadBobbyJenks
07-25-2006, 01:38 AM
Bad Bobby:

Right now I think Detroit has to lose the division by imploding. They are totally in the drivers seat.

Noticed this from the 'official' AP recap of the loss: "The sellout crowd booed Vazquez on his way to the dugout and let him hear it again in the seventh, after Bartlett's double put runners on second and third with none out."

That's Buehrle and Vasquez just in the past week. While some may disagree with it, I have no issues with fans booing.

Lip


Obviously they are in the drivers seat, but that does not mean its over by any means. Javy deserves to hear the boos right now, like I have said in this thread the javy blow ups are getting old rather quickly.

markopat
07-25-2006, 01:39 AM
Yeah, all of a sudden I'm not thrilled about my 200 mile round trip to see the game tomorrow. Saving gas money sounds really nice right now.

Go to the game tomorrow Palehose...It could all take a turn for the good starting tomorrow! I believe!

thomas35forever
07-25-2006, 01:41 AM
I'm late with my intake on tonight's game, but here it is:

This has to be the toughest loss of the year to take. Just when we started to see rays of sunshine again, the cloudiness returned. What's wrong with our team? Everyone won today except for us. Mauer's homer was the crushing blow. Timberwolf will probably be dancing the night away.

markopat
07-25-2006, 01:42 AM
One last point. It seems to me as if the Sox think they can just "show up" and automatically win, and when the other team doesn't just lay down and roll over for them, they go into full panic mode like they didn't expect a challenge. That bugs me. How else do you explain never being able to get the worst hitters in the other team's lineup out, or giving up runs right after they score, or sucking EVERY time you pitch past the fifth inning, etc. It's like they "relax" after they score or get the top 6 guys out. Then before you know it the 7 thru 9 hitters start the hit parade, an errant walk to the one or 2 guy, and when the big guys come up for that third AB, boom, the big home run hits. Keep the focus Sox!!!!! Don't let up at "easy" points of the game or after something good happens. It's killing you right now. Hawk says "we haven't even played well yet". Well, game 100 is right around the corner, let's start.

Jerko...this is what I was talking about last week when I said that they lacked intensity to start the games. We seem to be perpetually coming from behind by the 3rd inning and "then" we try to turn it up...very different than last year.

ilsox7
07-25-2006, 01:45 AM
Jerko...this is what I was talking about last week when I said that they lacked intensity to start the games. We seem to be perpetually coming from behind by the 3rd inning and "then" we try to turn it up...very different than last year.

With the exception of the Friday game against the Rangers, the Sox have had the lead in the 5th inning or later every game since the beginning of the Detroit series.

markopat
07-25-2006, 01:49 AM
With the exception of the Friday game against the Rangers, the Sox have had the lead in the 5th inning or later every game since the beginning of the Detroit series.

How many of those games were we ahead in the 3rd ilsox7? still seems to me that we are down 1-0 or 2-0 in the first 3 innings...we turn up the heat in 4th or 5th, then lose it in the 6th...7th...Seems like we are constantly playing catch-up.

kitekrazy
07-25-2006, 01:50 AM
Is this team really 7.5 out? Seriously, it can't be true:o:

They'd be 7.5 ahead if they were in the NL or even greater. The AL Central is not a pansy division anymore.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2006, 01:51 AM
The guys just need to battle through this storm. they're playing horribly at the wrong time. but theř will wake up just in time and roll. it will happen.

ilsox7
07-25-2006, 01:54 AM
How many of those games were we ahead in the 3rd ilsox7? still seems to me that we are down 1-0 or 2-0 in the first 3 innings...we turn up the heat in 4th or 5th, then lose it in the 6th...7th...Seems like we are constantly playing catch-up.

From what I can tell, since the Detroit series started, we have only been losing after the 3rd inning in the Friday Texas game. Also, I missed the Saturday Texas game as a game we never lead, but were tied. I think it's mostly a problem of not pushing that extra run or two across when we have a slim lead and of course our pitching not holding said leads. Looking at the last 7 games, this team could/should have won all but the Friday Texas game. Every other game there were opportunities for either the bats to step up or the pitchers to step up.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2006, 01:58 AM
Every other game there were opportunities for either the bats to step up or the pitchers to step up.

This is the statement that is the root of our frustrations, that they've had chance after chance after chance to capitalize over the last two weeks. Even the 19-inning marathon against boston, it should've been over in 11. That game took something out of this team, and we'll get it back, but boy it hurts. :(:

kitekrazy
07-25-2006, 01:58 AM
yeah, but at this poitn, who cares?

should we have not traded for Vazquez? obviously we shouldn't have.

but if the team is better off with B.Mac in the rotation and an 8 million dollar long reliever in the pen, so be it at this point.

Unless we find somebody to take on his contract, Vazquez's contract is a sunk cost. It should not be taken into consideration.

It's more profitable for the team to have an 8 million dollar long reliever than to miss the playofs.

I think the Cubs paid that for a guy who is only good for pitching the 8th inning.

I think before the season began that wanted MCCarthy for the pen since Hermanson was a ?

ilsox7
07-25-2006, 02:04 AM
This is the statement that is the root of our frustrations, that they've had chance after chance after chance to capitalize over the last two weeks. Even the 19-inning marathon against boston, it should've been over in 11. That game took something out of this team, and we'll get it back, but boy it hurts. :(:

Yep. And sadly this happens to every team in every baseball season. Are there the rare exceptions? Sure. But every team this year, except Detroit, has gone through some sort of struggles similar to the last 2-3 weeks for the Sox.

Are the Sox a lock to come out of this slump tomorrow and coast to a playoff spot? Not at all. But I'd be surprised if both the Twins and Tigers play to the level they have the last couple of months for the next 2 months. If they do, you just have to tip your hat to them. Sometimes, **** happens.

kitekrazy
07-25-2006, 02:08 AM
The only question I have is why it took him over half the season to realize that. We all knew it in late May/early June. Some before.

Probably because Ozzie doesn't have a lot of confidence in the pen.

ndu3t4
07-25-2006, 02:10 AM
I don't feel like reading all I've missed, and it's pretty late, so I'll keep it somewhat short:

The pitchers are coming around, they've all shown improvement in their last starts from what they've been doing and it's extremely promising.

The offense can't go like this forever... right? They're just too talented, which is what makes this last stretch so frustrating.

We'll bust out of this. Maybe not tonite, probably not tomorrow, but soon.

Nellie_Fox
07-25-2006, 03:27 AM
:tomatoaward:tomatoaward

Grzegorz
07-25-2006, 06:06 AM
Go out and beat Santana tonight. This team is in a fight for the playoffs. Without consistent play the 2006 White Sox will be on the outside looking in.

Oh, and please play Anderson tonight...

BeviBall!
07-25-2006, 08:44 AM
The only thing we all can agree on is that time is running out. 7.5 back with a little over 60 games to play. Wild card might be "loser" talk but with every passing day, I consider it a safety valve.

The starting pitching has put us in a hole. Right now, the slumping offense is drilling more holes in a sinking boat. Santana pitches against us tonight... if there was ever time to make a statement, this is it. There is time to right this ship... and we have some games against lower-tier teams coming up that we desperately need.

MsSoxVixen22
07-25-2006, 09:30 AM
This team is starting to make me (literally) sick. We're gonna need a ****ing miracle to beat Santana tonite! JC.....hold it down for us tonite and hopefully we can grind out some runs

Mickster
07-25-2006, 09:37 AM
Dye struck out four times yesterday. Maybe a day off isn't the worst thing in the world.

That is not why Dye was not in the lineup.

Mickster
07-25-2006, 09:42 AM
If Ozzie starts treating Javy the same way Jerry treated Garland I would love it.

I wouldn't. :(:

CRAW
07-25-2006, 09:56 AM
I don't know why I read this crap - it depresses me. :(


*ahem* White Sox? White Sox? Let's go!!! :?:

Cat Thief
07-25-2006, 10:01 AM
I don't know why I read this crap - it depresses me. :(


*ahem* White Sox? White Sox? Let's go!!! :?:


I agree. This was the first thing I read when I got to work this morning and I was even more pissed about last night when I was done reading. However, the $80 in gas thing was pretty funny.

itsnotrequired
07-25-2006, 10:05 AM
I agree. This was the first thing I read when I got to work this morning and I was even more pissed about last night when I was done reading. However, the $80 in gas thing was pretty funny.

My internet isn't working at home so this morning was also my first chance to check out this thread.

Bah, sig update time...

nasox
07-25-2006, 10:47 AM
I JUST missed BA's homer. Just missed it. It bounced two rows behind me and a few feet to my left and I dove for it and it just spun away from my hand and into some guy sitting a few seats down. :angry: :angry:

ShoelessJoeS
07-25-2006, 10:51 AM
I went to last night's game and saw my first loss of the season. I couldn't believe that Ozzie sent Javier back out there for the 7th, and was even more surprised that he wasn't pulled after the leadoff single. It doesn't matter how well this guy pitches in the first 5 innings, he's bound to blow it sometime. At least BA made it interesting in the 9th, but it's still hard to win the game if we can only score 2 runs off Brad Radke..

spiffie
07-25-2006, 11:01 AM
http://www.epa.gov/pmresearch/pm_grant/images/sky.jpg

Everything is going to be wonderful! We will come back, win this division, all of our starters will get it together, and the last 2 months of the season we will go out and play .800 ball to go screaming into the playoffs and win another World Series!

ShoelessJoeS
07-25-2006, 11:03 AM
http://www.epa.gov/pmresearch/pm_grant/images/sky.jpg

Everything is going to be wonderful! We will come back, win this division, all of our starters will get it together, and the last 2 months of the season we will go out and play .800 ball to go screaming into the playoffs and win another World Series!I'll have what he's having.

:D:

CRAW
07-25-2006, 11:14 AM
I'll have what he's having.

:D:

Make mine a double!

TornLabrum
07-25-2006, 11:43 AM
I went to last night's game and saw my first loss of the season. I couldn't believe that Ozzie sent Javier back out there for the 7th, and was even more surprised that he wasn't pulled after the leadoff single. It doesn't matter how well this guy pitches in the first 5 innings, he's bound to blow it sometime. At least BA made it interesting in the 9th, but it's still hard to win the game if we can only score 2 runs off Brad Radke..

I was yelling, "Take him out!" after the first homer. Too bad Ozzie didn't listen to me.

My thought after Anderson's homer was, "Too little, too late."

All in all, it was a lousy night.

INSox56
07-25-2006, 11:45 AM
I was yelling, "Take him out!" after the first homer. Too bad Ozzie didn't listen to me.


Cotts didn't listen to me either. I yelled don't give him anything to hit, JUST WALK HIM on the 3-1 count RIGHT before the Mauer homer. Bases loaded 2 outs is better than the BEST HITTER IN THE LEAGUE given a 3-1 meatball...

soxfanatlanta
07-25-2006, 11:53 AM
I'll have what he's having.

:D:

I'd love some too, but my employers would not like the results of my urine test. :D:

MsSoxVixen22
07-25-2006, 11:58 AM
http://www.epa.gov/pmresearch/pm_grant/images/sky.jpg

Everything is going to be wonderful! We will come back, win this division, all of our starters will get it together, and the last 2 months of the season we will go out and play .800 ball to go screaming into the playoffs and win another World Series!

What a breath of fresh air! Thanks, I needed that! :tongue:

JohnBasedowYoda
07-25-2006, 12:26 PM
angry face indeed, mike. They're letting this season roll down their leg.

JohnBasedowYoda
07-25-2006, 12:27 PM
http://www.epa.gov/pmresearch/pm_grant/images/sky.jpg


I need some of Chips' spray sunblock for your post

peeonwrigley
07-25-2006, 12:29 PM
I was yelling, "Take him out!" after the first homer. Too bad Ozzie didn't listen to me.

My thought after Anderson's homer was, "Too little, too late."

All in all, it was a lousy night.

I turned down tickets to the game, and am very happy I did so. I probably would have struggled to not teach the children in the park a whole new vocabulary.

Palehose13
07-25-2006, 12:32 PM
However, the $80 in gas thing was pretty funny.

But it's the truth!!! :(:

*sigh* I'm leaning toward going even though I have to leave in a couple of hours.

t_willystyle
07-25-2006, 12:33 PM
Trade Vasquez for Kyle Loshe...seems like a fair trade!!

regionsox73
07-25-2006, 12:37 PM
The team has lost 10 of 13. If they don't hit home runs they don't score. Your "ace" has been dooty for a month. You are getting near double digit deficit from Detroit. Minnesota almost put you in 3rd place. The bullpen has been abysmal. How can anyone drink silver and black Kool-Aid and be positive? I was still keeping my hopes up despite the Boston series. Then despite the NY series, then despite the Detroit series. Now it is just too much. We have problems people.

t_willystyle
07-25-2006, 12:40 PM
The team has lost 10 of 13. If they don't hit home runs they don't score. Your "ace" has been dooty for a month. You are getting near double digit deficit from Detroit. Minnesota almost put you in 3rd place. The bullpen has been abysmal. How can anyone drink silver and black Kool-Aid and be positive? I was still keeping my hopes up despite the Boston series. Then despite the NY series, then despite the Detroit series. Now it is just too much. We have problems people.



and your starters ERA is the WORST in MLB since the beginning of July!

It's looking rather cloudy!

zmz723
07-25-2006, 12:41 PM
The team has lost 10 of 13. If they don't hit home runs they don't score. Your "ace" has been dooty for a month. You are getting near double digit deficit from Detroit. Minnesota almost put you in 3rd place. The bullpen has been abysmal. How can anyone drink silver and black Kool-Aid and be positive? I was still keeping my hopes up despite the Boston series. Then despite the NY series, then despite the Detroit series. Now it is just too much. We have problems people.

:?:

Palehose13
07-25-2006, 12:41 PM
The team has lost 10 of 13. If they don't hit home runs they don't score. Your "ace" has been dooty for a month. You are getting near double digit deficit from Detroit. Minnesota almost put you in 3rd place. The bullpen has been abysmal. How can anyone drink silver and black Kool-Aid and be positive? I was still keeping my hopes up despite the Boston series. Then despite the NY series, then despite the Detroit series. Now it is just too much. We have problems people.

reĚdunĚdant adj.

1. Exceeding what is necessary or natural; superfluous.
2. Needlessly wordy or repetitive in expression: a student paper filled with redundant phrases.
3. Of or relating to linguistic redundancy.
4. Chiefly British. Dismissed or laid off from work, as for being no longer needed.
5. Electronics. Of or involving redundancy in electronic equipment.
6. Of or involving redundancy in the transmission of messages.

Palehose13
07-25-2006, 12:44 PM
and your starters ERA is the WORST in MLB since the beginning of July!

It's looking rather cloudy!

I hate Twinkie trolls.

Twins Win
07-25-2006, 01:26 PM
It's all nice and all for you guys that Anderson hit a HR last night but come on, he did hit it off of Lohse. Lohse sucks and I can't wait for the Twins to get rid of him. The Twins have been counting on this guy for years and he's done nothing.

ShoelessJoeS
07-25-2006, 01:34 PM
It's all nice and all for you guys that Anderson hit a HR last night but come on, he did hit it off of Lohse. Lohse sucks and I can't wait for the Twins to get rid of him. The Twins have been counting on this guy for years and he's done nothing.So based on Shoota's Guide to Statistics, does that home run count?

Twins Win
07-25-2006, 01:42 PM
So based on Shoota's Guide to Statistics, does that home run count?

I never said it didn't count. I just don't see why everyone is excited about it.

cleanwsox
07-25-2006, 01:44 PM
I never said it didn't count. I just don't see why everyone is excited about it.

If you watched Anderson in the first half, you would be excited too. Morneau and Cuddyer hit HR's off Vazquez and he blows just as much as Lohse. Please, get a life dude.

Palehose13
07-25-2006, 01:46 PM
I never said it didn't count. I just don't see why everyone is excited about it.
Cause a month ago Anderson couldn't hit his way out of a paper bag no matter who was pitching.

credefan24
07-25-2006, 01:56 PM
I never said it didn't count. I just don't see why everyone is excited about it.

Go back to Minnesota, Gordon Bombay!:cool:

Twins Win
07-25-2006, 01:56 PM
If you watched Anderson in the first half, you would be excited too. Morneau and Cuddyer hit HR's off Vazquez and he blows just as much as Lohse. Please, get a life dude.

What makes you think I don't have a life? What did you base that on? Vazquez maybe be bad but he's no where near as bad as Lohse.

All I was looking for was reasons for everyone being excited about Anderson's HR last night. I wasn't looking for personal attacks.