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View Full Version : Annoyed with Ozzie's rant on Garland


southwstchi4life
07-23-2006, 05:02 PM
Ozzie always talks about having credentials, as if mlb manangers should be former mlb players. Well, what about the credientials of being a former pitcher, which Ozzie is not. Garland tried to hit him. Ozzie doesnt know teh pressure and ease of pin pointing and hitting someone. Not everyone is perfect. Sorry for the negative thread after sucha a great win. I dont usually have a problem w/ Ozzie. But he REALLY rubbed me the wrong way today. Great game Johnny

Frater Perdurabo
07-23-2006, 05:05 PM
I think all should be forgiven and forgotten given the 8.1 innings of shutout ball that Garland pitched today. Even Ozzie went out of his way to make peace with Garland. Let's put it in the past; the Sox won't have to face the Rangers any more this season.

digdagdug23
07-23-2006, 05:06 PM
Ozzie always talks about having credentials, as if mlb manangers should be former mlb players. Well, what about the credientials of being a former pitcher, which Ozzie is not. Garland tried to hit him. Ozzie doesnt know teh pressure and ease of pin pointing and hitting someone. Not everyone is perfect. Sorry for the negative thread after sucha a great win. I dont usually have a problem w/ Ozzie. But he REALLY rubbed me the wrong way today. Great game Johnny

BECAUSE it says to your team, "I will make sure that the opposing team knows that we will not let this go." When a pitcher is told to go out there and hit the batter, you dang well better do it. Yes he missed, not once, but TWICE. Ozzie, IMO, said this in front of the team so that they know he is behind them. Retribution was called for, and that was what he expected. I don't give a rat's behind what the media says or implies from this, if it makes the team stronger, yell again. I also believe JG threw a shut out, so I don't think he will be ready for Prozac. Garland is a big boy, I didn't see him running to the end of the bench crying.

This is the big show, not the sandlot.

TornLabrum
07-23-2006, 05:08 PM
BECAUSE it says to your team, "I will make sure that the opposing team knows that we will not let this go." When a pitcher is told to go out there and hit the batter, you dang well better do it. Yes he missed, not once, but TWICE. Ozzie, IMO, said this in front of the team so that they know he is behind them. Retribution was called for, and that was what he expected. I don't give a rat's behind what the media says or implies from this, if it makes the team stronger, yell again. I also believe JG threw a shut out, so I don't think he will be ready for Prozac. Garland is a big boy, I didn't see him running to the end of the bench crying.

This is the big show, not the sandlot.

We have a winner!

Scottiehaswheels
07-23-2006, 05:08 PM
BECAUSE it says to your team, "I will make sure that the opposing team knows that we will not let this go." When a pitcher is told to go out there and hit the batter, you dang well better do it. Yes he missed, not once, but TWICE. Ozzie, IMO, said this in front of the team so that they know he is behind them. Retribution was called for, and that was what he expected. I don't give a rat's behind what the media says or implies from this, if it makes the team stronger, yell again. I also believe JG threw a shut out, so I don't think he will be ready for Prozac. Garland is a big boy, I didn't see him running to the end of the bench crying.

This is the big show, not the sandlot.Couldn't have said it better myself.... Thank you.... Want a wuss sport to follow, go watch tennis or something...

Lip Man 1
07-23-2006, 05:11 PM
The Sox have been getting drilled a lot the past two seasons. Teams are taking liberties with this as well as coming inside at will.

Sooner or later a Sox player is going to miss significant time due to injury over it and it simply has to stop.

Other clubs have to know that if you hit 'our' guys or keep coming inside you will pay a price.

Lip

LuvSox
07-23-2006, 05:12 PM
Want a wuss sport to follow, go watch tennis or something...

:rolleyes:

MarySwiss
07-23-2006, 05:15 PM
BECAUSE it says to your team, "I will make sure that the opposing team knows that we will not let this go." When a pitcher is told to go out there and hit the batter, you dang well better do it. Yes he missed, not once, but TWICE. Ozzie, IMO, said this in front of the team so that they know he is behind them. Retribution was called for, and that was what he expected. I don't give a rat's behind what the media says or implies from this, if it makes the team stronger, yell again. I also believe JG threw a shut out, so I don't think he will be ready for Prozac. Garland is a big boy, I didn't see him running to the end of the bench crying.

This is the big show, not the sandlot.

Yep. And it's a shame that the Rangers were allowed to get off scot-free for the crap Padilla pulled on A.J. last time around. I don't think he hit Cintron on purpose, but at some point that no longer matters. Padilla is a jerk--and so is Showalter.

Scottiehaswheels
07-23-2006, 05:15 PM
:rolleyes:LOL maybe I should have said golf or something else... I know I know... Tennis is a very tough sport but never does it involve contact really...

southside rocks
07-23-2006, 05:32 PM
BECAUSE it says to your team, "I will make sure that the opposing team knows that we will not let this go." When a pitcher is told to go out there and hit the batter, you dang well better do it. Yes he missed, not once, but TWICE. Ozzie, IMO, said this in front of the team so that they know he is behind them. Retribution was called for, and that was what he expected. I don't give a rat's behind what the media says or implies from this, if it makes the team stronger, yell again. I also believe JG threw a shut out, so I don't think he will be ready for Prozac. Garland is a big boy, I didn't see him running to the end of the bench crying.

This is the big show, not the sandlot.
Yes.

My take on this: what Ozzie didn't like was not that Garland was unable to hit Kinsler (come on, nobody really thinks that a major-league pitcher with any kind of control can't hit a batter in the back or on the leg??), but that Garland didn't WANT to hit Kinsler because it might result in Garland being ejected from the game -- and Jon was pitching a whale of a game.

And what that amounts to is a pitcher putting his own performance and stats ahead of the team. Playing for the name on the back of the jersey, not the name on the front. Ozzie will always ream a player for that, and he should.

If a pitcher doesn't go 1000% to the wall for his teammates, then his teammates might not go 1000% full-out for him -- might not make a spectacular dive to stop a base hit and save a no-hitter someday, or something. Back up your teammates no matter what it does to your personal stats. Hollywood Jon Garland needs to learn this, as Sean Tracey needed to learn it.

I was at the game today. Garland pitched a great game. And he should have hit Kinsler.

ETA: And too many Sox batters have been hit this season; it has to stop. It's NOT OKAY to ding AJ and Joe Crede and Alex Cintron and Tadahito Iguchi, it's just not okay, and the person who HAS to send the message is the White Sox pitcher.

Bonderman38
07-23-2006, 05:52 PM
I don't really know the situation, but it seemed that Garland at least tried to hit him. Had he thrown again, he would've been ejected.

Scottiehaswheels
07-23-2006, 05:55 PM
I don't really know the situation, but it seemed that Garland at least tried to hit him. Had he thrown again, he would've been ejected.True, but the point was he threw at him twice and missed both times.... Threw behind him and threw low... Perhaps he was trying to take out the legs of their 2B like they took out Pods on Friday.... but if you miss on the first one and intend to go after the guy again aim for the butt, bigger target than a shin

southside rocks
07-23-2006, 05:56 PM
I don't really know the situation, but it seemed that Garland at least tried to hit him. Had he thrown again, he would've been ejected.

He missed him twice. Um, with the control that Jon had today, I find it really hard to believe that he really tried to hit Kinsler. You're right, one more and he'd have been ejected -- which is why you get it done the first time, Jon...

vegyrex
07-23-2006, 06:05 PM
With Jon unable to hit a batter does that mean Ozzie will hold a clinic for our pitchers on how to hit someone? :D:

Scottiehaswheels
07-23-2006, 06:08 PM
With Jon unable to hit a batter does that mean Ozzie will hold a clinic for our pitchers on how to hit someone? :D:That'd be fun... get Adam Sandler aka Happy Gilmore to take the pitches?

QCIASOXFAN
07-23-2006, 06:10 PM
With Jon unable to hit a batter does that mean Ozzie will hold a clinic for our pitchers on how to hit someone? :D:That was exactly what I was thinking after that happened. He might, you never know. We can only hope.:tongue:

SOXSINCE'70
07-23-2006, 06:14 PM
BECAUSE it says to your team, "I will make sure that the opposing team knows that we will not let this go." When a pitcher is told to go out there and hit the batter, you dang well better do it. Yes he missed, not once, but TWICE. Ozzie, IMO, said this in front of the team so that they know he is behind them. Retribution was called for, and that was what he expected. I don't give a rat's behind what the media says or implies from this, if it makes the team stronger, yell again. I also believe JG threw a shut out, so I don't think he will be ready for Prozac. Garland is a big boy, I didn't see him running to the end of the bench crying.

This is the big show, not the sandlot.


:hawk
"You're dadgum right".

areilly
07-23-2006, 06:30 PM
SWEEP THE LEG JONNY!



(Always wanted to use that in a thread...)

Grzegorz
07-23-2006, 08:32 PM
To be forewarned is to be forearmed. Poor Ozzie opened his mouth and laid his plans out for all to see.

Way to go Ozzie, open your mouth and have the league look at this series with greater scrutiny. It's like the Allies announcing their plans to invade Normandy in late May 1944.

To call Garland out was wrong too; possible risking a suspension for one of his best pitchers shows he's thinking with his heart and not his head.

There is a time and place for everything, this wasn't the time or place for retribution.

Johnny74
07-23-2006, 08:36 PM
With Jon unable to hit a batter does that mean Ozzie will hold a clinic for our pitchers on how to hit someone? :D:


Pitchers used to practice throwing the "knock down" pitch. Not anymore. With the umps sticking their noses in, pitchers are afraid to throw inside. Sigh...

RealFan
07-23-2006, 08:43 PM
SWEEP THE LEG JONNY!



(Always wanted to use that in a thread...)

Nicely done - I will follow that up with a quote from the same movie -

FINISH HIM!!! (substitute Ozzie instead of raving lunatic Vietnam war vet turned karate coach)... :smile:

oeo
07-23-2006, 08:45 PM
Ozzie always talks about having credentials, as if mlb manangers should be former mlb players. Well, what about the credientials of being a former pitcher, which Ozzie is not. Garland tried to hit him. Ozzie doesnt know teh pressure and ease of pin pointing and hitting someone. Not everyone is perfect. Sorry for the negative thread after sucha a great win. I dont usually have a problem w/ Ozzie. But he REALLY rubbed me the wrong way today. Great game Johnny

It's Ozzie's team, he can do whatever the hell he wants. If that's what it takes to light a fire under this team, then so be it.

fquaye149
07-23-2006, 09:46 PM
To be forewarned is to be forearmed. Poor Ozzie opened his mouth and laid his plans out for all to see.

Way to go Ozzie, open your mouth and have the league look at this series with greater scrutiny. It's like the Allies announcing their plans to invade Normandy in late May 1944.

To call Garland out was wrong too; possible risking a suspension for one of his best pitchers shows he's thinking with his heart and not his head.

There is a time and place for everything, this wasn't the time or place for retribution.

You mean the series that just ended?:?:

Everyone knows what was going on in this series with Showalter throwing at us with reckless abandon. Say what you want about plunking wars, but they are going to happen. Remember when Jermaine Dye was playing shortstop last year because Macha riddled our players with hbps? If you don't take a stand you risk injury to your players. And injury is a lot worse than a suspension. Period. The fact is, people weren't sure if Ozzie would retaliate. Hell, people on this BOARD weren't sure Ozzie would retaliate for the umpteen times Showalter hit our players. Do you think maybe managers might wonder if they really had to fear retribution?

Now they know that Ozzie will protect his players. It's out there in the open. No excuses.

I'll be surprised to see a suspension handed out.

mccoydp
07-23-2006, 10:57 PM
Padilla should have been tossed after the plunking; the umps know his recent history with the Sox. But...they issue a "warning" to cover their asses and let the pitcher get away with it.

Chicken Dinner
07-23-2006, 11:06 PM
I don't think Ozzie ordered that hit right then. I think Jon was doing that on his own and then couldn't get it done and that's what torqued Ozzie off.

HebrewHammer
07-23-2006, 11:13 PM
Can we please stop with the macho bull**** and just play baseball?

Soxfanspcu11
07-23-2006, 11:23 PM
Can we please stop with the macho bull**** and just play baseball?

I don't think it's "macho bull****", it's actually a part of the game.

The Sox are not starting this. They have been the victim of ******* managers going after them. They are protecting themselves.

Protecting teamates=playing baseball

Kub_Killer_15
07-23-2006, 11:23 PM
I just find it messed up that Texas pitchers "slip" and hit us and then when we try to hit them on purpose we cant.

pearso66
07-23-2006, 11:31 PM
I think Ozzie wanted Garland to throw at Kinsler, and I think Garland missed on purpose. But I don't htink it was because he didn't want to be ejected, I think it was because he had Young, Teixiera and Blalock up after Kinsler, and the Sox had a 1 run lead. The way the Sox score runs when their pitchers have a good game, that 1 run is huge. I'd hate to give that up just to retaliate. If anything, wait till there is 2 outs.

Tragg
07-23-2006, 11:39 PM
On the one hand, Garland disobeyed Ozzie's orders.
On the other hand, Ozzie needs to grow up...this ego-spitting match with Showalter is getting old. He didn't hit Cintron hard, and it was probably accidental. YOu have a ring, Ozzie. Showalter is 2/2 and counting on teams getting rings after he was fired. Be the better man. Go out and make a point with the ump and perhaps a wry comment to the media; but teams know his M.O. now and they'll start chunking us hoping for retaliation so we weaken our team.
Don't fall into their trap.

Huisj
07-23-2006, 11:42 PM
Yes.

My take on this: what Ozzie didn't like was not that Garland was unable to hit Kinsler (come on, nobody really thinks that a major-league pitcher with any kind of control can't hit a batter in the back or on the leg??), but that Garland didn't WANT to hit Kinsler because it might result in Garland being ejected from the game -- and Jon was pitching a whale of a game.

And what that amounts to is a pitcher putting his own performance and stats ahead of the team. Playing for the name on the back of the jersey, not the name on the front. Ozzie will always ream a player for that, and he should.

If a pitcher doesn't go 1000% to the wall for his teammates, then his teammates might not go 1000% full-out for him -- might not make a spectacular dive to stop a base hit and save a no-hitter someday, or something. Back up your teammates no matter what it does to your personal stats. Hollywood Jon Garland needs to learn this, as Sean Tracey needed to learn it.

I was at the game today. Garland pitched a great game. And he should have hit Kinsler.

ETA: And too many Sox batters have been hit this season; it has to stop. It's NOT OKAY to ding AJ and Joe Crede and Alex Cintron and Tadahito Iguchi, it's just not okay, and the person who HAS to send the message is the White Sox pitcher.

I see the point you're making, but I disagree that what Garland did shows he was pitching for his own personal stats. He pitched a heck of a game right when the Sox really really needed it since they've been playing so poorly lately. If he gets tossed or suspended, that's not going to help the team the way throwing 8 shutout innings is. If he gets tossed, there's a good chance this game turns into a loss, and then you go in to the Minnesota series with a worn out bullpen. That doesn't help the team.

JB98
07-24-2006, 12:27 AM
For people to say Garland doesn't back up his teammates is ridiculous. I was at a game last season where Bonderman drilled Konerko right between the shoulder blades. Next half inning, Garland threw one behind Rondell White. White walked toward the mound, pointing his bat at Garland, and both benches briefly emptied. Jon did what he had to do that day, and I wasn't disappointed by what he did today. You don't necessarily have to hit the guy to send a message.

markopat
07-24-2006, 12:33 AM
It's Ozzie's team, he can do whatever the hell he wants. If that's what it takes to light a fire under this team, then so be it.

:worship: Ah Z Ball...Bring it!

100 Year Itch
07-24-2006, 12:41 AM
but that Garland didn't WANT to hit Kinsler because it might result in Garland being ejected from the game -- and Jon was pitching a whale of a game.

And what that amounts to is a pitcher putting his own performance and stats ahead of the team.

Conversely, perhaps Garland was doing what was best for his team by ensuring that he would stay in the game and continue pitching.

southside rocks
07-24-2006, 07:15 AM
Conversely, perhaps Garland was doing what was best for his team by ensuring that he would stay in the game and continue pitching.
But that's not Jon's decision to make. Ozzie gave him instructions and he didn't carry them out; that's not exactly insubordination, but it's also not Jon's place to override or disregard the instructions. It's Jon's place to get it done.

I'm not arguing that Jon should have gotten tossed from the game, at all. I'm suggesting that the team is more important than any single game, to Ozzie. (Which of course is all speculation, since I wasn't in the dugout -- would love to have had a mic in there for that, though!)

Ozzie wants a certain type of player on his team. He's made that very, very clear over the few short years he's managed here. That's why Carlos Lee is gone. That's why Magglio Ordonez is gone. That's why Frank Thomas is gone. Ozzie wants players who are good, but who put the team first, not themselves. Ozzie wants to win, always, but he wants to win by playing the game the right way.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Frontman
07-24-2006, 07:22 AM
LOL maybe I should have said golf or something else... I know I know... Tennis is a very tough sport but never does it involve contact really...

Wasn't this thread started about mental pressure and not understanding it? If so, I'd take golf off the list too..... ;)

Hmmm......I would suggest either "speed eating" or the "rock/paper/scissors" tournaments.

Personally, I think the two pitches BEHIND the batter with two successful catches by AJ did the same job. Who'd want to take a swing at AJ now that he's shown some incredible hand/eye coordination.

Front

Bulls_Fan
07-24-2006, 07:50 AM
I'm sure i'm in the vast minority here but i think Ozzie's public rant wasn't necessary.

I completely understand that Ozzie wanted him plunked and Jon missed twice. if Garland does end up hitting him you are looking at him missing his next start in the rotation due to suspension. My main problem with Ozzie is talking in public about the beaning. Garland just gave us a stellar outing and we are talking about this. Ozzie should have handled it behind closed doors and made it clear what he wants (which i'm sure he did).

With all that being said i always tip my hats to Managers/Coaches and their decisions. They know more about the game and their team than i do, so its best that i bite my tongue and know that Ozzie is looking out for the best interest of our club.

harwar
07-24-2006, 08:26 AM
Abviously,A.J. knew the two pitches were going to be behind the guy.
Ozzie wanted Jon to hit the guy and Jon just wouldn't(or couldn't) do it.
I'm not sure how i feel about berating a veteran pitcher in front of the world like that.Garland isn't some kid just brought up.I wish ozzie would have waited.
I think Showalter(that ****ing *******) is pulling Ozzies' strings and having a good laugh.
I'm glad we don't have to play the rangers anymore this year,this is all causing trouble in the clubhouse that we don't need.

SoxandtheCityTee
07-24-2006, 09:06 AM
Predictably, many comments in the media on Ozzie's full and frank remarks in the post-game. Is there any chance that Ozzie is deliberately taking a public stand and courting a suspension in order to make a point with MLB? The policy of no warnings to the first side that hits the batters -- even repeatedly and/or intentionally -- and then warning/ejecting for retaliation has been widely criticized and I've heard that even the umps (the better ones) don't like it but have had their hands tied. How do you go about getting this changed if no one ever speaks out?

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-24-2006, 09:11 AM
Conversely, perhaps Garland was doing what was best for his team by ensuring that he would stay in the game and continue pitching.

Well since Ozzie is empowered to manage this team, he calls the shots.

If Garland is willing to forego his contract and lose his job when he(and the team) underperforms instead of a manager losing his, then have at it. Garland is a player - he follows the directives of the manager. Ozzie was 100% correct in letting Jon have it, in the dugout, in front of everyone. Screw the MLB front office if they decide to do something about it. And, if they do, then they better have lawyers at the next Red Sox/Yankees series because there's been retribution there for a long time and no one says a damn thing.

Thome25
07-24-2006, 09:16 AM
This thread really does suck. I'm tired of everyone whining about Ozzie yelling at the "poor players".

They make MILLIONS of dollars to play a kids game. If they can't handle getting chewed out by their manager then I don't want them on my team anyway.

Who cares if it was in front of anyone. That's the same nonsense that got Shea Hillenbrand cut. He was a whiny little crybaby who couldn't handle getting chewed out by his manager in front of everyone. *Sniff sniff*

Baseball is a hard-nosed game and I enjoy seeing the hard-nosed, old school managers rip someone a new one when it is necessary.

Again and pay attention: If a player can't handle getting ripped by his manager old-school style then he needs to find another job maybe flipping burgers. Somewhere nice and warm and safe where no one is gonna yell at you and hurt your little feelings.

Ozzie is a breath of fresh air. I guess we have forgotten the peace-love and gandhi days of Jerry Manuel. And the mannequin days of Gene Lamont where he would just sit there like a statue and the bench coach had to check his pulse every other inning.

I want a manager who loves baseball and cares about his team and the game and isn't afraid to rip someone a new one when the time comes. That manager thank God is Ozzie Guillen.

wassagstdu
07-24-2006, 09:30 AM
I thought Garland threw behind Kinsler to send the message without getting ejected in a close game and without putting him on base for the meat of the lineup. (Remember what happened on Saturday when Jenks walked Kinsler in the ninth.) Also, by making the umpire issue a warning he made sure Padilla would get tossed if he did it again.

.

TornLabrum
07-24-2006, 09:35 AM
Predictably, many comments in the media on Ozzie's full and frank remarks in the post-game. Is there any chance that Ozzie is deliberately taking a public stand and courting a suspension in order to make a point with MLB? The policy of no warnings to the first side that hits the batters -- even repeatedly and/or intentionally -- and then warning/ejecting for retaliation has been widely criticized and I've heard that even the umps (the better ones) don't like it but have had their hands tied. How do you go about getting this changed if no one ever speaks out?

We have a winner here! Listen to Ozzie's words. That's exactly what he's been saying.

ws05champs
07-24-2006, 10:23 AM
I think Ozzie wanted Garland to throw at Kinsler, and I think Garland missed on purpose. But I don't htink it was because he didn't want to be ejected, I think it was because he had Young, Teixiera and Blalock up after Kinsler, and the Sox had a 1 run lead. The way the Sox score runs when their pitchers have a good game, that 1 run is huge. I'd hate to give that up just to retaliate. If anything, wait till there is 2 outs.

That is what I thought was so weird about throwing at Kinsler. I thought when you try to hit a guy, you do it when there are 2 outs preferably with a larger lead. Maybe the reason why Ozzie was ripping Garland was more about who and when he was attempting to hit and not just that he missed him.

I also felt sorry for the umpire. It seemed he gave Garland 2 chances to hit the guy and after the second attempt gave a warning so Garland wouldn't humiliate himself more and to move the game on. Who knows how long the game would have gone on if Garland continued to try to hit a batter at the rate he was going.

INSox56
07-24-2006, 10:45 AM
I also felt sorry for the umpire. It seemed he gave Garland 2 chances to hit the guy and after the second attempt gave a warning so Garland wouldn't humiliate himself more and to move the game on. Who knows how long the game would have gone on if Garland continued to try to hit a batter at the rate he was going.

I think something that's really underlying is the umpire. Thank you Randy Marsh, A GOOD UMPIRE. He called the game like it SHOULD have been called. Padilla hits a guy, NO WARNINGS. Garland throws behind him ONCE, no warning...finally after the second time, a warning. ALL of the umps were very informed I'd imagine about what Guillen said. So many horrible umps in MLB would have warned BOTH benches when Padilla hit the guy. Instead, Marsh, being a fair and decent ump, warned no one and gave us a chance to retaliate, easily knowing that it was coming. Heck, even Kinsler knew it was coming...he didn't exactly look shocked when the balls were threw at him. :wink:

SouthSoxFan
07-24-2006, 11:48 AM
First, Garland should've used that situation to his advantage. Instead of throwin' at the first guy right out of the gate, let the Ranger hitters ponder who is gettin' drilled. Keep 'em off balance for a bit. And the best plan would have been be to get 2 outs, and fire one at Teixeira or Blalock - bigger targets.

spiffie
07-24-2006, 12:07 PM
We have a winner here! Listen to Ozzie's words. That's exactly what he's been saying.
Problem is its the right message but the wrong guy to deliver it. At this point other teams could come out on the field and hit our guys in the heads with their bats, and if Ozzie retaliated he would be the one the media comes crashing down on. Just look at Couch's bull**** spew in the Bright One today. Nothing Ozzie does will be able to make a point because the people who are going to be spinning it to the public are inevitably going to make it about what a crazy nasty person Ozzie is. Hell, most of the media coverage about AJP getting plunked twice in one game was basically "everyone wants to hit AJ." I agree with Ozzie and have no problem with how he has handled any of this situation, but I don't see it as being likely to have any positive benefits in terms of showing how flawed MLB policy is.

viagracat
07-24-2006, 12:43 PM
Problem is its the right message but the wrong guy to deliver it. At this point other teams could come out on the field and hit our guys in the heads with their bats, and if Ozzie retaliated he would be the one the media comes crashing down on. Just look at Couch's bull**** spew in the Bright One today. Nothing Ozzie does will be able to make a point because the people who are going to be spinning it to the public are inevitably going to make it about what a crazy nasty person Ozzie is. Hell, most of the media coverage about AJP getting plunked twice in one game was basically "everyone wants to hit AJ." I agree with Ozzie and have no problem with how he has handled any of this situation, but I don't see it as being likely to have any positive benefits in terms of showing how flawed MLB policy is.

I really don't think Padilla was trying to hit Cintron. Not in that situation, at least. You already had Mackowiak on first with no outs, and by hitting Cintron you had two on and nobody out. Not a good spot for a pitcher, and of course, the Sox scored in that inning. If Cintron was hit on purpose, that's just dumb in a game situation like that. And everyone on both sides knew that. That's why no warning was issued.

I think part of the spectacle was just for show. If Ozzie was truly upset with Garland he would have pulled him right then and there. And they were just fine with each other when Garland came out. Move on.

jenn2080
07-24-2006, 12:52 PM
I really don't think Padilla was trying to hit Cintron. Not in that situation, at least. You already had Mackowiak on first with no outs, and by hitting Cintron you had two on and nobody out. Not a good spot for a pitcher, and of course, the Sox scored in that inning. If Cintron was hit on purpose, that's just dumb in a game situation like that. And everyone on both sides knew that. That's why no warning was issued.

I think part of the spectacle was just for show. If Ozzie was truly upset with Garland he would have pulled him right then and there. And they were just fine with each other when Garland came out. Move on.


they even hugged it out

bayzbol44
07-24-2006, 01:47 PM
A hug will always make you forget something bad.

IMO, Garland should have hit him because everyone already knew what Ozzie had said days before and expected.

Mohoney
07-24-2006, 02:04 PM
I thought Garland threw behind Kinsler to send the message without getting ejected in a close game and without putting him on base for the meat of the lineup. (Remember what happened on Saturday when Jenks walked Kinsler in the ninth.) Also, by making the umpire issue a warning he made sure Padilla would get tossed if he did it again.

.

And I think that this is EXACTLY what Ozzie wanted, too. I think that Ozzie chewing Garland out was EXACTLY the same "acting job" that Schowalter pulled when he "acted" upset about Pods getting hit on Friday.

Sxy Mofo
07-24-2006, 02:37 PM
Maybe the reason why Ozzie was ripping Garland was more about who and when he was attempting to hit and not just that he missed him.

I think this is a point. bean ball statements should be made with two outs, not leading off an inning.

Second, after all the stuff ozzie was saying and the tracey stuff, does garland really attempt to throw behind the guy... or was he just nervous about what happens if he doesn't hit him?

I just can't see garland actually wanting to not hit him and deal with ozzie. And it's not like garland would've been thrown out, because warnings hadn't been issued.



I mean, let's say ozzie doesn't actually say to hit kinter, he just wants to see what jon will do (after the other tirades about protecting players). Jon goes after the first guy (and you never want to put the first guy in an inning on intentionally), instead of the guy with two outs.

southside rocks
07-24-2006, 02:56 PM
I think this is a point. bean ball statements should be made with two outs, not leading off an inning.

Second, after all the stuff ozzie was saying and the tracey stuff, does garland really attempt to throw behind the guy... or was he just nervous about what happens if he doesn't hit him?

I just can't see garland actually wanting to not hit him and deal with ozzie. And it's not like garland would've been thrown out, because warnings hadn't been issued.



I mean, let's say ozzie doesn't actually say to hit kinter, he just wants to see what jon will do (after the other tirades about protecting players). Jon goes after the first guy (and you never want to put the first guy in an inning on intentionally), instead of the guy with two outs.

You could be right. I think Ozzie should get David Riske to conduct a seminar for Sox pitchers on How To Hit A Batter If You Must, with Sean Tracey (who says that he practiced some in Charlotte, hitting 4 or 5 batters) as his teaching assistant. :tongue:

Riske, you may recall, did it perfectly: got the first two outs in the inning, plunked the next guy (Duncan, wasn't it?) in the backside, and the next pitcher was able to get the third out in the inning after Riske was tossed.

soxinem1
07-24-2006, 05:28 PM
This stuff of telling the press about beanballs and retaliation is getting a little tiring. He should have just done it and shut up. Now, he'll be getting another suspension, just what we need.

Maybe Bud will get him some 'Shut up while you are behind' training.....

100 Year Itch
07-24-2006, 05:55 PM
Predictably, many comments in the media on Ozzie's full and frank remarks in the post-game. Is there any chance that Ozzie is deliberately taking a public stand and courting a suspension in order to make a point with MLB? The policy of no warnings to the first side that hits the batters -- even repeatedly and/or intentionally -- and then warning/ejecting for retaliation has been widely criticized and I've heard that even the umps (the better ones) don't like it but have had their hands tied. How do you go about getting this changed if no one ever speaks out?

Ozzie always seems to be bashing MLB, which is a interesting publicx position to constantly espouse given the general job insecurity of being a MLB manager.

Giving Guillen credit for being measured in his words, no matter how charged they might be, I wonder if he has higher aspirations within the industry beyond field manager. Guillen would make a perfect commissioner for baseball as I believe he would refocus the league by reestablishing all the crucial but nuanced parts of the game that have been bulldozed over as baseball has become ever more commercialized.

kitekrazy
07-25-2006, 03:29 AM
The way the Sox have been playing lately it's probably a good idea to put runners on the bases, 2 outs or not.
They are not in a postion to play "retaliation" when they have to win ball games and want one of your top pitchers to risk a suspension.

If Ozzie got a 5 game suspension and the Sox won all 5 of those games, he'd look like an ass.

ozzie1977
07-25-2006, 09:46 AM
that's just ozzie being ozzie. to tell you the truth, it was kind of embarassing that garland seemed to be unable to hit someone on purpose.

SoxandtheCityTee
07-25-2006, 09:49 AM
that's just ozzie being ozzie. to tell you the truth, it was kind of embarassing that garland seemed to be unable to hit someone on purpose.

:dtroll: