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thomas35forever
07-22-2006, 09:17 PM
Bad moves by Ozzie tonight. When will this slump end?:angry:

stl_sox_fan
07-22-2006, 09:18 PM
Maybe when they are 10 games back they will feel a sense of urgency to start executing.

Chisox1500
07-22-2006, 09:18 PM
Can't wait to see how this one gets spun.

vernhillssoxfan
07-22-2006, 09:18 PM
I thought the slump would end tonight. Slumps ends tomorrow! Big time!

slobes
07-22-2006, 09:18 PM
Another great pitching performance ruined by the inability to hit with RISP.

It's Time
07-22-2006, 09:18 PM
WC lead down to 1 game in the loss column. I'm not even thinking about the division right now.

cbotnyse
07-22-2006, 09:19 PM
:thud: :thud: :thud:

MrX
07-22-2006, 09:19 PM
At least Freddy increased his trade value tonight

MarySwiss
07-22-2006, 09:19 PM
At least we don't lose any ground--and I am getting sick and tired of saying that.

But this one is not on Freddy. *** happened to our offense?

It's Time
07-22-2006, 09:20 PM
At least we don't lose any ground?

Yankees.

Brian26
07-22-2006, 09:20 PM
Another great pitching performance ruined by the inability to hit with RISP.

It's really the bitter sweet embodiment of a losing streak. The one part of the Sox game that has been struggling is their starting pitching. Tonight they get a brilliant performance and the bats go silent. Go figure.

stl_sox_fan
07-22-2006, 09:20 PM
At least we don't lose any ground--and I am getting sick and tired of saying that.

But this one is not on Freddy. *** happened to our offense?

No ground lost in both directions. Twins lost......

cbotnyse
07-22-2006, 09:20 PM
At least we don't lose any ground--and I am getting sick and tired of saying that.

But this one is not on Freddy. *** happened to our offense?Yeah this one falls on our offense and Jenks really didnt show up tonight either.

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:21 PM
We need Viagra for the bats, man, it just hurts to see them struggle so badly. At least Garcia brought his A game tonight, and JG is pitching well lately.

Ugh.

Jurr
07-22-2006, 09:21 PM
Maybe when they are 10 games back they will feel a sense of urgency to start executing.
They definitely have a sense of urgency. They're a little TOO urgent. That's what they call PRESSING. You have to be relaxed and not too jumpy to lay off bad pitches and hit the good ones.

DSpivack
07-22-2006, 09:21 PM
No ground lost in both directions. Twins lost......

Yankees only one off in the Wild Card. Any time we lose we lose ground, don't worry about what other teams do.

TheDarkGundam
07-22-2006, 09:21 PM
That absolutely sucked.
I'm sick and tired of losing. What is it, 1-7 since the break? That's ****.
I don't even wanna read what the Pollyannas have to say about this, so I'm gonna stay out of this thread after this post.

QCIASOXFAN
07-22-2006, 09:21 PM
I don't think you can lay all the blame on Ozzie until the end. Our offense blew ass...again and cost us that one. I feel bad for Freddy after that one.:(:

delben91
07-22-2006, 09:22 PM
Actually kind of amazing that they're finding new ways to lose each night. I guess variety is the spice of life.

Try it again tomorrow boys.

veeter
07-22-2006, 09:22 PM
Thome can't hit a lefty to save his life. Why does Ozzie pinch hit for Ozuna? Like I said last night, this mirrors last year's august fiasco. And we know what happened when that slump ended. I'm pissed, but I know they'll win the division.

NoShoesJoe
07-22-2006, 09:22 PM
As I said yesterday, the last time the Sox had a multi-run inning, other than the win against the Tigers, was against the ORIOLES on 7/6! Can you ***ing believe that? From this lineup! :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

32nd&Wallace
07-22-2006, 09:23 PM
Same old story. Home run ball rules. Crede doing his best Sammy Sosa impression, pops out twice. Konerko, AJ, all sulk after their failed at bats. Vintage Pods.

Shoeless_Jim
07-22-2006, 09:23 PM
i blame jenks tonight....lucky for him he is having a good season.

stats: Jenks 1.0 inn. pitched 3 BB. 2 R. 2 ER. 1 K. not exactly all-star pitching

Jurr
07-22-2006, 09:23 PM
That's about all you can say. Go get 'em tomorrow. Eventually they'll come out of this uptight, pressing, downtrodden crap. Hopefully it's not too late when they do.

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:23 PM
TI don't even wanna read what the Pollyannas have to say about this, so I'm gonna stay out of this thread after this post.

http://www.dack.com/images/weblog/kevin-bacon.jpg

Everything is FINE...Don't panic!!!!!

(Just had to)

MrX
07-22-2006, 09:23 PM
Yeah this one falls on our offense and Jenks really didnt show up tonight either.
Jenks has never been good when he has to come in to the game in the 8th. Ozzie's OCD when it comes to matchups wouldn't let Thornton pitch to a righty. This is the 2nd time moves like this have cost them.

stl_sox_fan
07-22-2006, 09:24 PM
Someone mentioned in the gamethread that Ozzie will probably bench BA for Mack because of the failed bunt attemp. Here's hoping micro-managing doesn't happen tomorrow.

Viva Medias B's
07-22-2006, 09:24 PM
What do I think of our team's execution? I'm all for it!!!

That was actually said by the late John McKay when asked about his Tampa Bay Bucceneers' execution after a loss. Our execution, or lack of it, cost us this one tonight, boys and girls.

Jurr
07-22-2006, 09:25 PM
One of the biggest situations in the game was the at bat against Kinsler. AJ called for Jenks to throw three straight curves in the dirt. You've gotta get a couple of heaters going before hitters are really worried about that hook.

Once he walked Kinsler, who wasn't even flinching at those curves, it was over.

Frankfan4life
07-22-2006, 09:25 PM
We just dropped another series and are in danger of being swept again. A great pitching performance by Freddy goes for naught. Our closer gets roughed up. The Tigers and Twins lost and we don't take advantage, and the Yankees won. That's all I have for tonight.

MrX
07-22-2006, 09:25 PM
Someone mentioned in the gamethread that Ozzie will probably bench BA for Mack because of the failed bunt attemp. Here's hoping micro-managing doesn't happen tomorrow.
Mack starting in CF tomorrow is a mortal lock

Brian26
07-22-2006, 09:26 PM
Jenks has never been good when he has to come in to the game in the 8th. Ozzie's OCD when it comes to matchups wouldn't let Thornton pitch to a righty. This is the 2nd time moves like this have cost them.

Are you thinking of the night he took out McCarthy after two batters in Detroit?

MrX
07-22-2006, 09:26 PM
Are you thinking of the night he took out McCarthy after two batters in Detroit?
Yep

Chisox1500
07-22-2006, 09:26 PM
When the only talent this club has is hitting homeruns this type of play can be expected. It's not time to worry according to so many here though. Losing to Wadsin and Koronka is no big deal because the Sox are better on paper.

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:27 PM
Someone mentioned in the gamethread that Ozzie will probably bench BA for Mack because of the failed bunt attemp. Here's hoping micro-managing doesn't happen tomorrow.

Benching him for Mack is just...well...no need to type it. How about a fine, or something? Just don't start Mack, puh-leaze.

Foulke You
07-22-2006, 09:27 PM
i blame jenks tonight....lucky for him he is having a good season.

stats: Jenks 1.0 inn. pitched 3 BB. 2 R. 2 ER. 1 K. not exactly all-star pitching
Jenks made a gross error in judgment when they had Kinsler at 1-2 with Michael Young on deck. Why in God's name don't you come in with a fastball when the count was 3-2 and Kinsler didn't bite at 2 straight breaking balls??? Michael Young is hitting .400 with runners in scoring position for crissakes! Ugh. Can't blame it all on Jenks though...the pitching only gave up 3 tonight. You gotta score runs. This loss was tougher to swallow than yesterday's. This slump has to end sooner or later.

slobes
07-22-2006, 09:27 PM
I'm tired of searching for the silver lining after every game: At least Mark had a good inning other than one of them. At least Freddy seems to be back. At least BA is hitting more. How about we just get a few wins??

Jerko
07-22-2006, 09:27 PM
That may be the worst managed game I ever saw in my life. Man on third, one out, a lefty warming up in the bullpen, and you pinch hit Pods??? Ozuna at least could have pretended to bunt. Thome walks with nobody out, and you wait till there's one out and 2 strikes on Dye to pinch run for him???? And then the guy steals??????? How bout trying that with NO outs???? Thornton comes in to face a righty, walks him, mows the next 2 guys down then you brink in Jenks? (I HATE bringing the closer into a tie game. I hate it.) Then you intentionally WALK Matthews with 2 outs, unintentially walk the next guy to get to YOUNG????????????? I don't think you should EVER walk ANYBODY intentionally when there's 2 outs. Ever. Awful game, Oz. You got outmanaged big time. Oh, I forgot the first inning where the guy throws 35 pitches, walks 3 guys, and didn't give up a run. Sox throw a leadoff walk the guy scores on the next pitch. Horrible game.

Chisox003
07-22-2006, 09:28 PM
:anon:

This is getting scary.

Jurr
07-22-2006, 09:28 PM
Jenks made a gross error in judgment when they had Kinsler at 1-2 with Michael Young on deck. Why in God's name don't you come in with a fastball when the count was 3-2 and Kinsler didn't bite at 2 straight breaking balls??? Michael Young is hitting .400 with runners in scoring position for crissakes! Ugh. Can't blame it all on Jenks though...the pitching only gave up 3 tonight. You gotta score runs. This loss was tougher to swallow than yesterday's. This slump has to end sooner or later.
That's what I'm saying. Man. Throw a damn chest high heater once in a while, Bobby!

NoShoesJoe
07-22-2006, 09:28 PM
Ozzie is managing according to percentages and stats. Whatever happened to "his touch and his feel for situations?" This needs to stop ASAP. I can't even remember the last time Bobby pitched. Should've left Thornton in there.

viagracat
07-22-2006, 09:28 PM
Wasted opportunities and lack of fundamentals AGAIN! *** is going on here?:angry:

Garland's been the one guy in the rotation doing anything lately. Maybe he can start us on a roll tomorrow.

Viva Medias B's
07-22-2006, 09:29 PM
That may be the worst managed game I ever saw in my life.

You evidently have forgotten the Terry Bevington era.

Chisox003
07-22-2006, 09:29 PM
Wasted opportunities and lack of fundamentals AGAIN! *** is going on here?:angry:

Garland's been the one guy in the rotation doing anything lately. Maybe he can start us on a roll tomorrow.
In case you didn't notice, Freddy pitched a gem tonight.

We scored 1 run.

Jurr
07-22-2006, 09:30 PM
That may be the worst managed game I ever saw in my life. Man on third, one out, a lefty warming up in the bullpen, and you pinch hit Pods??? Ozuna at least could have pretended to bunt. Thome walks with nobody out, and you wait till there's one out and 2 strikes on Dye to pinch run for him???? And then the guy steals??????? How bout trying that with NO outs???? Thornton comes in to face a righty, walks him, mows the next 2 guys down then you brink in Jenks? (I HATE bringing the closer into a tie game. I hate it.) Then you intentionally WALK Matthews with 2 outs, unintentially walk the next guy to get to YOUNG????????????? I don't think you should EVER walk ANYBODY intentionally when there's 2 outs. Ever. Awful game, Oz. You got outmanaged big time. Oh, I forgot the first inning where the guy throws 35 pitches, walks 3 guys, and didn't give up a run. Sox throw a leadoff walk the guy scores on the next pitch. Horrible game.
Thornton was having a good time out there. He was smiling and laughing after he struck out old Hank. He shouldn't have been pulled. Terrible managing. He's pressing like the rest of them. Just trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

Chisox1500
07-22-2006, 09:30 PM
Ozzie has been pretty brutal with his game time decisions this year. He is too quick to give up and has cost us a handful of games with his bailouts and odd lineups. Today is more of a trend than an exception.

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:31 PM
That's what I'm saying. Man. Throw a damn chest high heater once in a while, Bobby!

I saw that the radar gun hit 95 once or twice, but most of his fastballs were slower with no movement. A chest high 91 mph pitch? Not so much.

viagracat
07-22-2006, 09:33 PM
In case you didn't notice, Freddy pitched a gem tonight.

We scored 1 run.

Yeah, I know, but there were a lot of people here ready to throw Freddy overboard before tonight's game. Garland's been more steady lately.

Hope Garcia can keep this up. He looked good.

QCIASOXFAN
07-22-2006, 09:34 PM
I'm tired of searching for the silver lining after every game: At least Mark had a good inning other than one of them. At least Freddy seems to be back. At least BA is hitting more. How about we just get a few wins?? Our pitching seems to be pretty solid as of late, its our damn offense that blows now. I saw a post earlier where a stat was brought up that said other then the big inning we had against Detroit in the 7-1 win, that the last time we had a multiple run inning was on 7/6 against the Orioles.:(: I didn't even verify to see if that is true because I'm pretty sure it is. How is this possible for our offense to go dormant like this?

Jurr
07-22-2006, 09:35 PM
Bottom line for this game: Trying to do too much. This team is not relaxed at all, even the manager. They're putting too much damn pressure on themselves, and it's translating on the ball field. When, God, WHEN will the turnaround happen?

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I know, but there were a lot of people here ready to throw Freddy overboard before tonight's game. Garland's been more steady lately.

Hope Garcia can keep this up. He looked good.

Between Garland, Contreas, and Garcia - we've got three pitchers coming around to better form. When the hitting comes back from holiday, the wins will come back.

Let's hope the hitting comes back from holiday soon.

TornLabrum
07-22-2006, 09:37 PM
The offense will come back when everybody stops trying to hit solo five-run homers.

Foulke You
07-22-2006, 09:37 PM
Our pitching seems to be pretty solid as of late, its our damn offense that blows now. I saw a post earlier where a stat was brought up that said other then the big inning we had against Detroit in the 7-1 win, that the last time we had a multiple run inning was on 7/6 against the Orioles.:(: I didn't even verify to see if that is true because I'm pretty sure it is. How is this possible for our offense to go dormant like this?
The offense has been relying on the long ball to score lately and we just haven't had our home run swings working lately and when they have come, there hasn't been anyone on base. (Thome's solo shot yesterday, Konerko's solo shot today for example) I will feel better when I see the Sox string together 4 or 5 hits in an inning. Lately, we've been getting runners in scoring position with 0 or 1 outs and haven't gotten squat.:mad:

NoShoesJoe
07-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Does anyone know what 2-3-4 BA is since the ASB and our 1-7 record since?

Jerko
07-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Thornton was having a good time out there. He was smiling and laughing after he struck out old Hank. He shouldn't have been pulled. Terrible managing. He's pressing like the rest of them. Just trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

What kills me is Thornton came in to face a right handed YOUNG, and a right handed (switch hitting) Teixeira, strikes Tex and Blalock out, and gets pulled because a righty was coming up???? What righty was left that's better than Young and Tex?? Makes no sense.

Chisox1500
07-22-2006, 09:38 PM
The time for hope has past. They have pissed away the wild card lead and buried themselves in the division. They need to play with desperation now or miss out on the playoffs. Half-assing it and waiting for the bats to come around will not work.

Waiting for a three-run homerun got them into this mess.

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:39 PM
The offense will come back when everybody stops trying to hit solo five-run homers per at bat

Fixed it fer ya :smile:

Jerko
07-22-2006, 09:39 PM
You evidently have forgotten the Terry Bevington era.

You got me there. That said, tonight's game WAS awful. Not "go to the bullpen when nobody is warming up awful", but damn close.

Blueprint1
07-22-2006, 09:39 PM
This is really bad.

TornLabrum
07-22-2006, 09:40 PM
The time for hope has past. They have pissed away the wild card lead and buried themselves in the division. They need to play with desperation now or miss out on the playoffs. Half-assing it and waiting for the bats to come around will not work.

Waiting for a three-run homerun got them into this mess.

I assure you that "playing with desperation" will prolong this slump. I'm glad to see that you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Jerko
07-22-2006, 09:41 PM
Mack starting in CF tomorrow is a mortal lock

So is Widge behind the plate, even though we know AJ will automatically get on base twice with HBP's with Padilla on the mound.

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:41 PM
They need to play with desperation now or miss out on the playoffs. Half-assing it and waiting for the bats to come around will not work.

Um...how will playing out of desperation help? That would only make things worse. When dealing with losing streaks - check out Bobby Cox's Braves; they don't get too down, or too up. The players must keep an even keel or you will see the wagon wheels come off.

viagracat
07-22-2006, 09:42 PM
The time for hope has past. They have pissed away the wild card lead and buried themselves in the division. They need to play with desperation now or miss out on the playoffs. Half-assing it and waiting for the bats to come around will not work.

Waiting for a three-run homerun got them into this mess.

Which is why I had no problem pinch-running Mackowiak for Thome. Mac did steal second and was thus in a position to score in the seventh. Thome wasn't going to do that. Ozzie was trying to get that one run that maybe would've held up. Right then and there.

thomas35forever
07-22-2006, 09:42 PM
The time for hope has past. They have pissed away the wild card lead and buried themselves in the division. They need to play with desperation now or miss out on the playoffs. Half-assing it and waiting for the bats to come around will not work.

Waiting for a three-run homerun got them into this mess.
This site is starting to sound like a broken record and I'm going to keep it that way: CHILL OUT. We will get out of this and then we'll be the hottest team in baseball again. August and September is when division titles are won, not after 4 months.

viagracat
07-22-2006, 09:44 PM
Um...how will playing out of desperation help? That would only make things worse. When dealing with losing streaks - check out Bobby Cox's Braves; they don't get too down, or too up. The players must keep an even keel or you will see the wagon wheels come off.

There are no desperation games in July. They need to play better and smarter, but they do not need to play desperately. They'll be burned out in August if they get into that mindset.

Brian26
07-22-2006, 09:44 PM
The offense will come back when everybody stops trying to hit solo five-run homers.

:manos
"I know a lot about that."

Jerko
07-22-2006, 09:45 PM
Which is why I had no problem pinch-running Mackowiak for Thome. Mac did steal second and was thus in a position to score in the seventh. Thome wasn't going to do that. Ozzie was trying to get that one run that maybe would've held up. Right then and there.

If you're gonna pinch run for Thome there, do it immediately. Don't wait for Konerko to make an out and then steal when Dye has 2 strikes on him.

32nd&Wallace
07-22-2006, 09:45 PM
Chris Rongey started off his postgame with how great the defense was and how strong Freddie's pitching was. God, I miss Dave Wills.

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:46 PM
There are no desperation games in July. They need to play better and smarter, but they do not need to play desperately. They'll be burned out in August if they get into that mindset.
I agree!

:gulp:

EDIT:
Things are looking up with the pitching, the bats will heat up.

greygoose
07-22-2006, 09:46 PM
That may be the worst managed game I ever saw in my life. Man on third, one out, a lefty warming up in the bullpen, and you pinch hit Pods??? Ozuna at least could have pretended to bunt. Thome walks with nobody out, and you wait till there's one out and 2 strikes on Dye to pinch run for him???? And then the guy steals??????? How bout trying that with NO outs???? Thornton comes in to face a righty, walks him, mows the next 2 guys down then you brink in Jenks? (I HATE bringing the closer into a tie game. I hate it.) Then you intentionally WALK Matthews with 2 outs, unintentially walk the next guy to get to YOUNG????????????? I don't think you should EVER walk ANYBODY intentionally when there's 2 outs. Ever. Awful game, Oz. You got outmanaged big time. Oh, I forgot the first inning where the guy throws 35 pitches, walks 3 guys, and didn't give up a run. Sox throw a leadoff walk the guy scores on the next pitch. Horrible game.

werd

QCIASOXFAN
07-22-2006, 09:47 PM
If you're gonna pinch run for Thome there, do it immediately. Don't wait for Konerko to make an out and then steal when Dye has 2 strikes on him. What the hell was that about anyway?

Jerko
07-22-2006, 09:50 PM
Sorry guys, I'm uncommonly mad after this game. I still think we can right the ship, but tonight's game just got to me. :?:

Frankfan4life
07-22-2006, 09:51 PM
That may be the worst managed game I ever saw in my life. Man on third, one out, a lefty warming up in the bullpen, and you pinch hit Pods??? Ozuna at least could have pretended to bunt. Thome walks with nobody out, and you wait till there's one out and 2 strikes on Dye to pinch run for him???? And then the guy steals??????? How bout trying that with NO outs???? Thornton comes in to face a righty, walks him, mows the next 2 guys down then you brink in Jenks? (I HATE bringing the closer into a tie game. I hate it.) Then you intentionally WALK Matthews with 2 outs, unintentially walk the next guy to get to YOUNG????????????? I don't think you should EVER walk ANYBODY intentionally when there's 2 outs. Ever. Awful game, Oz. You got outmanaged big time. Oh, I forgot the first inning where the guy throws 35 pitches, walks 3 guys, and didn't give up a run. Sox throw a leadoff walk the guy scores on the next pitch. Horrible game.What he said!

Lip Man 1
07-22-2006, 09:53 PM
Wow.

Everyday I say to myself 'it WILL get better today...' and every day they look worse and worse.

Hal's right...it's Home Run Derby or absolutely nothing.

They played pretty well for 12 weeks and to potentially have it all go up in smoke in ten days just isn't fair.

Lip

soxfanatlanta
07-22-2006, 09:54 PM
Sorry guys, I'm uncommonly mad after this game. I still think we can right the ship, but tonight's game just got to me. :?:

I share your frustration, man. For fans, there is nothing to be done - just wait for the bats to come back.

Didn't Samuel Beckett write a play about this?

Grzegorz
07-22-2006, 09:56 PM
Someone mentioned in the gamethread that Ozzie will probably bench BA for Mack because of the failed bunt attemp.

Did I miss something? Did he not get the runner over?

If that's the case, that's cheap and very foolish.

jongarlandlover
07-22-2006, 09:58 PM
So is Widge behind the plate, even though we know AJ will automatically get on base twice with HBP's with Padilla on the mound.

Please Ozzie, please don't start Macko and Widge tomorrow. Please.

With Jon pitching tomorrow I really, really, really want Brian out there and A.J. catching.

The Sox are starting to annoy me a bit, it's all (home runs) or nothing with them.

viagracat
07-22-2006, 10:00 PM
Did I miss something? Did he not get the runner over?

If that's the case, that's cheap and very foolish.

Yes he did, but it was after two failed bunt attempts. It was one of those "swinging bunts" that was just lucky. Also, Anderson's had a rough series all the way around.

CurtisEBear
07-22-2006, 10:00 PM
From the "take your victories where you can department...."

I was sitting in the UD tonight.

Someone tried to start the wave just before the wheels fell off in the 9th. No one went for it.

A stark contrast to yesterday evening in the upper reaches of USCF.

As for the game...ugh. Nice to see "good Freddy" back, though.

mccoydp
07-22-2006, 10:01 PM
The offense will come back when everybody stops trying to hit solo five-run homers.

Thank goodness someone else wrote what I was thinking.

Jerko
07-22-2006, 10:01 PM
Did I miss something? Did he not get the runner over?

If that's the case, that's cheap and very foolish.

He DID get the runner over, but the bunt attempts did fail. I don't think he should have even been bunting. Uribe was the first batter that pitcher faced and he doubled, then we go and "give away" an out. Swing the damn bat against pitchers like that.

mccoydp
07-22-2006, 10:02 PM
:manos
"I know a lot about that."

Don't forget about Carlos Lee and Magglio, too.

QCIASOXFAN
07-22-2006, 10:04 PM
Please Ozzie, please don't start Macko and Widge tomorrow. Please.

With Jon pitching tomorrow I really, really, really want Brian out there and A.J. catching.

The Sox are starting to annoy me a bit, it's all (home runs) or nothing with them. I think they are, I also just heard on The Score that Konerko is getting the day off.:(:

chisox06
07-22-2006, 10:05 PM
Chris Rongey started off his postgame with how great the defense was and how strong Freddie's pitching was. God, I miss Dave Wills.

I hear ya. However, did anyone else notice Hawk and DJ venting some serious frustration during this game? I dont blame em, it hasn't been real fun to watch for anybody.

jongarlandlover
07-22-2006, 10:08 PM
I think they are, I also just heard on The Score that Konerko is getting the day off.:(:

Shoot.

So, if A.J., Brian, and Paulie get the day off, then Widge, Macko, and, er, Gload get to play, right? And why is Ozzie doing this to the pitcher who has been his best pitcher in July? Hmm?

southside rocks
07-22-2006, 10:10 PM
I hear ya. However, did anyone else notice Hawk and DJ venting some serious frustration during this game? I dont blame em, it hasn't been real fun to watch for anybody.

Farmer's "oh brother" when Crede popped up in his last at-bat, with RISP, was priceless. Dripping with disgust.

This slump seems to have gotten into all of their heads -- I guess that's one of the drawbacks of a tight team. They look like they have no confidence in themselves whatsoever. It's bizarre. And no, not fun to watch at all.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2006, 10:10 PM
The other thing that bothers me is that the Sox have been healthy yet they've now let a beat up Yankee club and a Twins team that was God awful for eight weeks climb right back into it.

The Yankess may be getting Sheffield and or Matsui back. The Twins may be getting a combination of Hunter / Stewart / Ford back.

Those are like pulling off major impact trades.

At least if the Sox do wind up pissing this away there will be no one to blame but themselves, they won't be able to use 'bad luck' or 'injuries' as an excuse. They can look themselves in the mirror and see who to blame.

Lip

SluggersAway
07-22-2006, 10:10 PM
Well, at least we got rid of the dark cloud discussion. Let us hope for a brighter day tomorrow!

Grzegorz
07-22-2006, 10:11 PM
Yes he did, but it was after two failed bunt attempts. It was one of those "swinging bunts" that was just lucky. Also, Anderson's had a rough series all the way around.

Would you sit Anderson tomorrow?

Fining him is foolish too; have him take more bunting practice but don't fine him.

Chisox1500
07-22-2006, 10:16 PM
Originally Posted by TornLabrum
I assure you that "playing with desperation" will prolong this slump. I'm glad to see that you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

It's funny how we can post similar complaints about not waiting for home runs and you can turn it into an insult of my baseball knowledge.

It is a step up from your insightful "darkclouds" tag rebuttals in response to truthful statements though.

I guess that grinding out runs and playing with their backs against the wall did n't work last year.

But perhaps all the times the Sox won in your extra time on this earth taught you that they are bound to come back and win despite poor pitching and fundamentals.

southside rocks
07-22-2006, 10:19 PM
Would you sit Anderson tomorrow?

Fining him is foolish too; have him take more bunting practice but don't fine him.

I have never read or heard where Ozzie said that he benched a player for missing a bunt, or for making a fielding error. Never. If Ozzie's done that, can someone link to him talking about it?

Because I don't think that's Ozzie's style. He's about training, not punishing, that kind of stuff. I don't doubt that he'll ream out a player in the dugout or clubhouse, and for sure he'll order more practice, but the punish-the-team approach is not one I've ever seen him take.

BA will sit tomorrow and Mack will play because Padilla's a righty, and because BA has played badly in these last two games. And I had such hopes for his 9-game hitting streak ... :(:

TornLabrum
07-22-2006, 10:20 PM
No, what it has taught me is that you don't play with "desperation." That's pretty close to what they're doing now, and that's why you're seeing all the damned pop-ups.

But then again, you have the "truth." So be it. I bow to your superior knowledge of the game.

infohawk
07-22-2006, 10:27 PM
Well, when the losses began against the Red Sox and after the All-Star break I was upset. When the losses continued I felt angst. When they still kept losing I felt angry. I'm not angry anymore, just resigned to the fact that they are slumping and the great thing about slumps is that you eventually come out of them. I suppose I've hit "acceptance." As much as we all hate losing like this we need to just ride it out. Really, what else can we do?

The way I look at the season is that you want to win between 97-100 games. That's usually enough to get you into the playoffs. If you win 99 and another team in your division wins 108 games, the other team had a truly "special" season and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. The reason I say "special" is because not too many teams that win divisions win with that many games. Usually, a division winner will win between 94-100. The rarity of winning many games over 100 is because, quite frankly, it is just so hard to do. The Sox were on pace to win well over 100 last year but "regressed" to 99, allowing the Indians an opportunity to be competitive at the end. I still believe that the Tigers will regress and finish the season at best with about 100 wins. That means they have a cold spell or two coming. Hopefully we're going through ours now and will make a run at them when and if they go through theirs. As far as I know, they have only had one somewhat significant stretch of losing ball this year and that came against some of the A.L. East teams.

All a general manager can do is put together a team with the hope that the team can win between 94-100 games. If you get to 96, 97 or 98 and come up short it's hard (but natural) to look back at missed opportunities and the like, because a team likely also won some games it shouldn't have to get close to 100 wins.

Moral of the story? Standings don't matter now as long as a team is competitive and in the race. We'll play 162 then add up the wins and losses at the end and see where we stand.

billyvsox
07-22-2006, 10:28 PM
On July 6th, only 16 days ago (4 for the all-star braeak), we were 1 game behind Detroit and 8 games ahead in the wild card standings. Just 12 games later we are 6.5 back of Tiger and only 1 in the wild card. There is no way to make that up again.....we are in a tough race till the end.

It's easy to lose ground cause all you have to do is LOSE every day like we have been. To gain ground we have to worry about Detroit, Minnesota, Yankees, Red Sox and now Toronto as well. All theose teams will not slump at the same time so we have lost the ability to ever have breathing room again. Oh well.

billyvsox
07-22-2006, 10:31 PM
Well, when the losses began against the Red Sox and after the All-Star break I was upset. When the losses continued I felt angst. When they still kept losing I felt angry. I'm not angry anymore, just resigned to the fact that they are slumping and the great thing about slumps is that you eventually come out of them. I suppose I've hit "acceptance." As much as we all hate losing like this we need to just ride it out. Really, what else can we do?

The way I look at the season is that you want to win between 97-100 games. That's usually enough to get you into the playoffs. If you win 99 and another team in your division wins 108 games, the other team had a truly "special" season and there's not a whole lot you can do about it. The reason I say "special" is because not too many teams that win divisions win with that many games. Usually, a division winner will win between 94-100. The rarity of winning many games over 100 is because, quite frankly, it is just so hard to do. The Sox were on pace to win well over 100 last year but "regressed" to 99, allowing the Indians an opportunity to be competitive at the end. I still believe that the Tigers will regress and finish the season at best with about 100 wins. That means they have a cold spell or two coming. Hopefully we're going through ours now and will make a run at them when and if they go through theirs. As far as I know, they have only had one somewhat significant stretch of losing ball this year and that came against some of the A.L. East teams.

All a general manager can do is put together a team with the hope that the team can win between 94-100 games. If you get to 96, 97 and 98 it's hard (but natural) to look back at missed opportunities and the like, because a team likely also won some games it shouldn't have to get close to 100 wins.

Moral of the story? Standings don't matter now as long as a team is competitive and in the race. We'll play 162 then add up the wins and losses at the end and see where we stand.


Agreed... With the way the AL dominated Interleague play, it will probably take 97 wins to get the wild card and 100 to beat Detroit out. All while an AL West team can get in with 90, and 3 NL teams can get in with 85-88. DO the math!!!

This is a good argument I have agfainst Interleague play and an unbalanced schedule, it creates division oddities every year and this year at least 4 AL teams that wont make the playoffs will have more wins that an NL team in the playoffs.

And while getting 19 games against Detroit helps, it sucks when every time you look up the Tigers are playing the Royals.
And while Sox-Det-Minn beat each other up and Bos-Nyy-Tor beat each other up the AL West only has 54 division games and we have 74.

infohawk
07-22-2006, 10:34 PM
All theose teams will not slump at the same time so we have lost the ability to ever have breathing room again. Oh well. That's not exactly true because if the Tigers went ice cold and we got red hot for a long stretch we could surpass them and have a lead. I would agree we probably won't blow by the Tigers, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibility that both the Twins and Yankees falter. I get your point and agree that it is highly unlikely that we will have a big cushion again, but it isn't impossible. I get what your saying, though.

I go back to my earlier post and argue that leads in late July make you feel good, but don't guarantee anything. When it's all said and done, there are several teams in the AL that are built for 95+ wins and a few will end up winning somewhere between 93-100 by season's end. I'm just skeptical that the Tigers will win 108 (their current pace) and the Yankees, Blue Jays and or Red Sox were likely to win more than 90 games anyway. By the end it's usually pretty close either way. Big leads that stay big usually are the result of a good team being chased by several not-so-good teams. There are a lot of good teams in the AL this year.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-22-2006, 10:35 PM
Well, when the losses began against the Red Sox and after the All-Star break I was upset. When the losses continued I felt angst. When they still kept losing I felt angry. I'm not angry anymore, just resigned to the fact that they are slumping and the great thing about slumps is that you eventually come out of them. I suppose I've hit "acceptance." As much as we all hate losing like this we need to just ride it out. Really, what else can we do?



I've hit the resignation point as well. It will end when it ends.

TornLabrum
07-22-2006, 10:40 PM
I've hit the resignation point as well. It will end when it ends.

And you know what? That's true of all slumps. They end when they end...and usually with a vengeance.

1951Campbell
07-22-2006, 10:43 PM
They played pretty well for 12 weeks and to potentially have it all go up in smoke in ten days just isn't fair.



It isn't fair, but that's how it's going.

*kicks pebble*

southside rocks
07-22-2006, 10:43 PM
I've hit the resignation point as well. It will end when it ends.

Same here.

I'm going to the game tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Nellie Fox and Luis Aparicio statues on the concourse, which are going to be unveiled then. If the Sox win, fabulous. If not, I'm still going to enjoy the afternoon. :cool:

billyvsox
07-22-2006, 10:43 PM
And you know what? That's true of all slumps. They end when they end...and usually with a vengeance.

Hey, I'm currently watching Die Hard with a Vengeance right now on FMC.

viagracat
07-22-2006, 10:44 PM
And you know what? That's true of all slumps. They end when they end...and usually with a vengeance.

Absolutely. Seen it many times over the years. When the Sox snap out of it they might easily win 12 out of 15.

infohawk
07-22-2006, 10:45 PM
I've got Sox Pride and I'm ridin' it out! Who's with me!!!

viagracat
07-22-2006, 10:46 PM
Would you sit Anderson tomorrow?

Fining him is foolish too; have him take more bunting practice but don't fine him.

Obviously bunting is a sensitive subject for the Sox right now.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-22-2006, 10:51 PM
Same here.

I'm going to the game tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to seeing the Nellie Fox and Luis Aparicio statues on the concourse, which are going to be unveiled then. If the Sox win, fabulous. If not, I'm still going to enjoy the afternoon. :cool:

Sounds great, have fun. I look forward to seeing them in August.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-22-2006, 10:52 PM
I've got Sox Pride and I'm ridin' it out! Who's with me!!!

I'm with ya!

infohawk
07-22-2006, 10:54 PM
Obviously bunting is a sensitive subject for the Sox right now.
What's really maddening about this team during this bad stretch (that we will agree never to mention again once they bust the slump) is that the inablility to execute really isn't because we have the "wrong" players. It's frustrating when Pods, Iguchi and Ozuna can't get bunts down because we know they have been good bunters/situational hitters. It's frustrating when Buerhle or (insert your underperforming starter) give up lots of runs during a start because we know they are good pitchers.

In the past I've known that the Sox needed to upgrade the roster to win. Sure we have some guys we are frustrated with, but this is a pretty darn good roster and they've done it before. It's going to be a lot of fun when they really get rolling again...and they WILL get rolling again.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-22-2006, 10:56 PM
What's really maddening about this team during this bad stretch (that we will agree never to mention again once they bust the slump) is that the inablility to execute really isn't because we have the "wrong" players. It's frustrating when Pods, Iguchi and Ozuna can't get bunts down because we know they have been good bunters/situational hitters. It's frustrating when Buerhle or (insert your underperforming starter) give up lots of runs during a start because we know they are good pitchers.

In the past I've known that the Sox needed to upgrade the roster to win. Sure we have some guys we are frustrated with, but this is a pretty darn good roster and they've done it before. It's going to be a lot of fun when they really get rolling again...and they WILL get rolling again.

On that upbeat note I'm going to bed and read my "Say It's So" book until I drift off.

rowand33
07-22-2006, 11:12 PM
god this is depressing...

thank God that I didn't see this game except for the first inning. I just heard the 9th on the radio.

bought tickets to the August 10th game against the Yanks earlier today.

I'll be going to three games in four days from the 10th-14th, two against the Tigers on the 12th and 13th.

I'm 3-0 this year and I consider those all must win, so hopefully I can bring us a little luck when it really matters.

I'm completely confident that Jon will have a good start tomorrow.

Will the offense decide to show that they remember how to play tomorrow? Will Ozzie effectively manage a game like we all know he can? Will somebody lay down a bunt (for god's sake, will somebody lay down a ****ing bunt?!?)?

these are the questions. Let's emulate 2005, not 2004.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-22-2006, 11:20 PM
I blame Ozzie and the weak offense for this one.

Pinch hitting Podsednik for Ozuna who could have suicide squeezed was bad. Pinch running for Thome and bringing in Jenks in the 8th were bad decisions as well.

If Mackowiak starts tomorrow I may not watch the game.

The team needs to take bunting practice real early once again and continue to do so until they are able to execute.

Ozzie needs to lay off the left / right obsessions and leave in effective relievers when they are pitching well.

**** Rob Mackowiak - he should start twice a month in CF. He is not a centerfielder and this starting him once a series is really old.

Podsednik cannot bunt, has no power and his stolen bases continue to decline on a year over year basis. He also plays left field poorly and has a weak arm (and doesn't hit the cut off man when he needs to - his throws will rarely get anyone out (2 assists to date)). He better get his head back into the game or he should not be back next season.

We wasted two opportunities this week - Thursday and today - to win games after great pitching performances from our starters. On Thursday, Detroit wanted it more taking out Iguchi to set up the winning run. Today I feel Ozzie's tinkering lead to defeat and lowered our chances for winning by taking out Thome and Thornton (and pinch hitting Podsednik for Ozuna).

The Thursday and Saturday losses were the most painful for me this season. I was very optimistic this season until the last three games. The White Sox still have time to win the division but they have 5 weeks to turn things around and be at or very close to the lead heading into September where the schedule favors Detroit.

They better return to what they did on offense in 2005 or they will be lucky to win the wild card this season.

The only encouragement was the performance by Garcia and Uribe tonight (who also was pinch hit for despite being the only hitter with two hits).

Ozzie's Lefty / Righty obsession is getting more annoying than flubsession. Leave pitchers / hitters in who are having a good night. You don't have to empty out the bench each night and you shouldn't take out your big guns unless it is the final inning. Also, leave your relief pitchers in when they are performing well.

Vent over. :angry:

voodoochile
07-22-2006, 11:43 PM
I blame Ozzie and the weak offense for this one.

Pinch hitting Podsednik for Ozuna who could have suicide squeezed was bad. Pinch running for Thome and bringing in Jenks in the 8th were bad decisions as well.

If Mackowiak starts tomorrow I may not watch the game.

The team needs to take bunting practice real early once again and continue to do so until they are able to execute.

Ozzie needs to lay off the left / right obsessions and leave in effective relievers when they are pitching well.

**** Rob Mackowiak - he should start twice a month in CF. He is not a centerfielder and this starting him once a series is really old.

Podsednik cannot bunt, has no power and his stolen bases continue to decline on a year over year basis. He also plays left field poorly and has a weak arm (and doesn't hit the cut off man when he needs to - his throws will rarely get anyone out (2 assists to date)). He better get his head back into the game or he should not be back next season.

We wasted two opportunities this week - Thursday and today - to win games after great pitching performances from our starters. On Thursday, Detroit wanted it more taking out Iguchi to set up the winning run. Today I feel Ozzie's tinkering lead to defeat and lowered our chances for winning by taking out Thome and Thornton (and pinch hitting Podsednik for Ozuna).

The Thursday and Saturday losses were the most painful for me this season. I was very optimistic this season until the last three games. The White Sox still have time to win the division but they have 5 weeks to turn things around and be at or very close to the lead heading into September where the schedule favors Detroit.

They better return to what they did on offense in 2005 or they will be lucky to win the wild card this season.

The only encouragement was the performance by Garcia and Uribe tonight (who also was pinch hit for despite being the only hitter with two hits).

Ozzie's Lefty / Righty obsession is getting more annoying than flubsession. Leave pitchers / hitters in who are having a good night. You don't have to empty out the bench each night and you shouldn't take out your big guns unless it is the final inning. Also, leave your relief pitchers in when they are performing well.

Vent over. :angry:

I disagree. This team needs to go get drunk together and forget about baseball for a night. More pressure will not help the situation...:gulp:

CLR01
07-22-2006, 11:49 PM
Same old story. Home run ball rules. Crede doing his best Sammy Sosa impression, pops out twice.


Twice??? I want to watch the game you were watching.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-23-2006, 12:12 AM
More pressure will not help the situation...:gulp:

Neither will poor execution. If this one or two games it would be one thing but the several players who need to lay down a bunt have been failing the entire season.

Podsednik and Ozuna have little power and must be able to bunt - both for sacrifices and to get on.

Iguchi, Uribe and Anderson also need to be able to bunt - Iguchi due to his spot in the order and Uribe and Anderson because they are low in the order and are not the greatest of hitters.

Widger and Mackowiak need to be able to lay down a bunt as well (Widger because he is not much better than a pitcher at the plate).

Every player but Mackowiak was here last year and all were able to execute better last year. It seems we have forgotten (as well as set aside) the fundamentals over the offseason. This should have been addressed in Spring Training but since it was not the team needs to work on these fundamentals before the game.

Tomorrow may not be the best time (a day game after a night) but the several players listed above should come in and work on bunting on Monday. Ozzie said he would continue to bring in players early to work on this until it was resolved. He is failing as a manager by not having his players ready to play and execute basic fundamentals.

These are fundamentals which lead to our World Championship last year. Our failure this season to bunt has lead to wasted opportunities on offense and several loses in close games - games we won last season. A little leaguer should be able to bunt after a few years of playing. The inability to bunt at the MLB level is inexcusable.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2006, 12:19 AM
Southside:

Ozzie has already stated the mandatory bunting will go on at least through Wednesday. Plus in a story released tonight on the Tribune's web site, Ozzie explains why he didn't have Uribe bunt Friday night and why apparently Anderson won't be playing on Sunday. Has some honest words about him.

Lip

Bobbo35
07-23-2006, 12:19 AM
The first time I sit in the skybox and I have to watch that!!! They are laboring too much at the plate. It is obvious with Crede trying to swing at the fences (What did he pop up 3 or 4 times!). Horrible job with RISP is going to equal a loss. This loss came to John Koronka, come on now, that is pitiful. They need to get their heads on straight and salvage a win for the series.

On a good note for me: Love the skybox, desert cart in the 2nd inning is the bomb, free food and free beer was great. Makes me not want to sit in the seats, I felt like royalty!.

Chisox003
07-23-2006, 12:20 AM
Neither will poor execution. If this one or two games it would be one thing but the several players who need to lay down a bunt have been failing the entire season.

Podsednik and Ozuna have little power and must be able to bunt - both for sacrifices and to get on.

Iguchi, Uribe and Anderson also need to be able to bunt - Iguchi due to his spot in the order and Uribe and Anderson because they are low in the order and are not the greatest of hitters.

Widger and Mackowiak need to be able to lay down a bunt as well (Widger because he is not much better than a pitcher at the plate).

Every player but Mackowiak was here last year and all were able to execute better last year. It seems we have forgotten (as well as set aside) the fundamentals over the offseason. This should have been addressed in Spring Training but since it was not the team needs to work on these fundamentals before the game.

Tomorrow may not be the best time (a day game after a night) but the several players listed above should come in and work on bunting on Monday. Ozzie said he would continue to bring in players early to work on this until it was resolved. He is failing as a manager by not having his players ready to play and execute basic fundamentals.

These are fundamentals which lead to our World Championship last year. Our failure this season to bunt has lead to wasted opportunities on offense and several loses in close games - games we won last season. A little leaguer should be able to bunt after a few years of playing. The inability to bunt at the MLB level is inexcusable.
Trust me, they're there working on bunting early. All the guys you listed. I know because I watch.

Why it isn't translating into success during the games is a whole 'nother question....

Bobbo35
07-23-2006, 12:22 AM
I assure you that "playing with desperation" will prolong this slump. I'm glad to see that you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Ya, they plain and simple just need to relax out there and not worry about the standings. Too much pressure is going to like you said,"prolong the slump.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2006, 12:33 AM
Chisox:

And why the same guys who can't get a bunt down to save their lives were able to so it rather easily in 2005...another unanswerable question.

Lip

Chisox003
07-23-2006, 12:35 AM
Chisox:

And why the same guys who can't get a bunt down to save their lives were able to so it rather easily in 2005...another unanswerable question.

Lip
One of the many reasons why baseball is so great and equally frustrating at the same time. But when it's happening to your guys, it's obviously a little less of the great a lot more of the frustrating.

Something's gotta give...

nasox
07-23-2006, 12:40 AM
And you know what? That's true of all slumps. They end when they end...and usually with a vengeance.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/content/175/0901ap_johnson.jpg

"I know waaaaay too well"

SouthSide_HitMen
07-23-2006, 12:41 AM
Southside:

Ozzie has already stated the mandatory bunting will go on at least through Wednesday. Plus in a story released tonight on the Tribune's web site, Ozzie explains why he didn't have Uribe bunt Friday night and why apparently Anderson won't be playing on Sunday. Has some honest words about him.

Lip

Glad to hear it. I wouldn't care if I didn't think this team had the talent to win it all.

Lip's story (I only read Kass in the Tribune so thanks for referencing):

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-0607220185jul22,1,7256114.story?coll=chi-sportswhitesox-hed

I was mainly concerned with the failure in the 7th. Anderson thankfully moved Uribe to third after two failed bunt attempts and then instead of squeezing with Ozuna or the pinch hitting Podsednik we stranded Uribe at third.

In my life I've only have watched three White Sox teams with a very good chance (solid hitting and pitching) to win it all - 1983, 2005 and 2006. They still have a good chance if they right the ship. Hopefully Ozzie's second attempt will stick and lead to a few wins in the final months.

I couldn't find the story about sitting Anderson. I don't think Anderson should sit once a series. Mackowiak cannot cover the position and we need the best fielding squad out there. Mackowiak is a career .262 hitter with marginal power so it is not like his bat can cover for the times he cannot field a bloop or ball in the gap.

MrRoboto83
07-23-2006, 12:53 AM
These losses are hard to take, I hope the Sox can turn this around. Things are getting ugly.

vegyrex
07-23-2006, 01:03 AM
I disagree. This team needs to go get drunk together and forget about baseball for a night. More pressure will not help the situation...:gulp:

I agree.

Ozzie should take them out and buy a few rounds, sing pirate songs, and talk about anything but baseball.

Captain Hand is needed right now.:tongue:

Bill Naharodny
07-23-2006, 03:07 AM
And you know what? That's true of all slumps. They end when they end...and usually with a vengeance.

In this case, "a vengeance" would mean one sacrifice bunt, followed by 1 victory every 3 games.

Captian Ron
07-23-2006, 03:13 AM
Like I said before Bears and Bulls are right around the corner. It's over!

Bill Naharodny
07-23-2006, 03:14 AM
I assure you that "playing with desperation" will prolong this slump. I'm glad to see that you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Good tidings from Torn Labrum.

Mr. White Sox
07-23-2006, 03:55 AM
Not that it matters because Bobby didn't pitch well today, but did anyone notice the replay of Mench's infield hit? I slowed it down and he was clearly out by about a 1/2 step.

Grzegorz
07-23-2006, 04:58 AM
Southside:

Ozzie explains why he didn't have Uribe bunt Friday night and why apparently Anderson won't be playing on Sunday. Has some honest words about him.

Lip

Lip, I didn't see that specific reference to Anderson in that story. I'll be looking in today's Tribune for something about BA.

Again, he moved the runner over. He failed at the bunt attempt. Have him continue working on bunting. I do not see what benching him does other then weakening this team in a very important defensive position. Fining is folly too; keep him out there and have him work. Only through practice will he improve.

Why is Wednesday the magic day when bunting practice ends? Is it because they're the home team and have unlimited time to the field to work on these drills? If so, have a mandatory fundamentals when at home from now until the team improves.

I am wondering if this team has had a closed door meeting involving only the players.

If we're fining people for mental mistakes can we make sure that all players, coaches, and the manager are fined for mental mistakes too?

Thome25
07-23-2006, 06:02 AM
This isn't a loaded question, I just want to know out of curiousity. Where was Freddy's velocity last night? because he looked pretty darn good!!

Law11
07-23-2006, 08:23 AM
Like I said before Bears and Bulls are right around the corner. It's over!

Cmon man, as much as I'm looking to Bear Season we are in a playoff race and that all you could ever want.

We are spoiled from last year.
If this was 2 years back we'd be talking how we are right in the hunt for the playoffs.

Thats what we are... In the Hunt. I'm not guaranteeing (sp) anything. Someone is gonna get left out and the Sox might be that team but the playoffs are'nt organized in July or August... This will come down to the final week. So enjoy the Bears on Sunday (I know I will) but don't give up on the defending World Champs..

Cuck the Fubs
07-23-2006, 08:52 AM
Like I said before Bears and Bulls are right around the corner. It's over!

:?: Um.........yeah whatever. I was totally unaware that baseball season ended in July:angry:

For years, we all wanted a team that would offer us a real chance to get into the playoffs and do something from there........we win the WS, and now everyone thinks we're going to win every year.

Ya gotta be real.........the team is very good, KW did not rest on his laurels and put a better team out there for 06'. While the Sox are digging a hole, it isn't over yet, we've still got August & September.

If you're ready for Bears & Bulls.......see ya

viagracat
07-23-2006, 09:08 AM
Twice??? I want to watch the game you were watching.

I think Crede popped out four times, three times in foul territory. I can't remember the last guy to have three foulouts in a single game. He was clearly pressing at the plate.

bluestar
07-23-2006, 09:16 AM
Not that it matters because Bobby didn't pitch well today, but did anyone notice the replay of Mench's infield hit? I slowed it down and he was clearly out by about a 1/2 step.

Yes, he was out, but it was close enough it is easy to understand why the umpire missed it.

bluestar
07-23-2006, 09:18 AM
I think Crede popped out four times, three times in foul territory. I can't remember the last guy to have three foulouts in a single game. He was clearly pressing at the plate.

And one of those times was a hanging breaking ball that was screaming "crush me." I bet 9 times out of 10 it would have been a home run off Crede's bat.

spiffie
07-23-2006, 09:32 AM
Ozzie's Lefty / Righty obsession is getting more annoying than flubsession. Leave pitchers / hitters in who are having a good night. You don't have to empty out the bench each night and you shouldn't take out your big guns unless it is the final inning. Also, leave your relief pitchers in when they are performing well.

Vent over. :angry:
If you're so smart why is no one paying you to manage? Where's your World Series ring?

It appears that the notion of Ozzie being infallible as a field manager is starting to wane. Which is good, because while he's obviously good at handling the players, he is not as strong at the in-game management. Same goes for Cora and his maniacal waving home of anyone who comes into 3rd standing up. At some point teams know they don't have to rush, and can come up with just a decent 2 or 3 bounce throw to home and they'll still have time to get runners.

That said, we are still the best team in baseball and any day now we'll stop playing like **** and win lots and lots of games and go to the World Series and win. Yay!!!!

southsideirish71
07-23-2006, 09:43 AM
This isn't a loaded question, I just want to know out of curiousity. Where was Freddy's velocity last night? because he looked pretty darn good!!

His fastball was still medicore. He just had control of it last night. When he had his mid 93 mph fastball last year and before, he could get away with a pitch missing its location a bit, because the speed differential between his breaking pitches and his fastball were so much. This year, if he misses location, he is meat. Especially when he gets behind the count.

BainesHOF
07-23-2006, 10:11 AM
One of the biggest situations in the game was the at bat against Kinsler. AJ called for Jenks to throw three straight curves in the dirt. You've gotta get a couple of heaters going before hitters are really worried about that hook.

Once he walked Kinsler, who wasn't even flinching at those curves, it was over.

Yes, you throw some fastballs to Kinsler with Young coming up next. It was oh so predictable though. In the last few weeks, A.J. calls Jenks to throw only breaking balls with two strikes on a batter in a pressure situation. It doesn't matter if Jenks throws five pitches with two strikes, they're all going to be breaking balls. I pin this loss on A.J. more than anyone for treating Kinsler like he's Babe Ruth.

BainesHOF
07-23-2006, 10:14 AM
Would you sit Anderson tomorrow?

With our present roster, Anderson needs to play every game because he is our only major-league quality defensive center fielder.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-23-2006, 10:56 AM
If you're so smart why is no one paying you to manage? Where's your World Series ring?

It appears that the notion of Ozzie being infallible as a field manager is starting to wane. Which is good, because while he's obviously good at handling the players, he is not as strong at the in-game management. Same goes for Cora and his maniacal waving home of anyone who comes into 3rd standing up. At some point teams know they don't have to rush, and can come up with just a decent 2 or 3 bounce throw to home and they'll still have time to get runners.

That said, we are still the best team in baseball and any day now we'll stop playing like **** and win lots and lots of games and go to the World Series and win. Yay!!!!

I don't know if your comments in teal are a rip on me or on those who view Ozzie as infallible. :?: :dunno:

Every knowledgeable fan watches the game and at times comments on what they would do (take him out, pinch hit for this guy, etc.). I'll make these observations but I usually do not post them here as I agree with much of what Ozzie does and it is not right to nit pick each decision every inning / game. However, I do think he is pressing as much if not more than the players this week which is not helping matters.

Cora has driven me nuts for the past 1 2/3 seasons. Being aggressive with fast / average runners is OK. Being "aggressive" (I would call it suicidal) with the slowest members of your team (AJ, Konerko, Thome) is costing us runs. It seems a runner is thrown out by 15 - 20 feet at least once a week. I know Ozzie wants Cora to be aggressive but there is a difference between aggressive and stupid and I think Cora crosses that line a bit too much for my taste. Nobody should be thrown out "from here to Kalamazoo".

I also agree with the statement that we are the best team and if we play at our capabilities we will be OK in October. No need to worry about the Tigers, Twins, Yankees, A's, Rangers, etc. The Sox are in control of their destiny - it is time for the team to seize it.

BeviBall!
07-23-2006, 11:20 AM
What more do you need to know other than the fact we intentionally walked Gary Matthews Jr. TWICE. I hate playing not to lose and that's exactly what Ozzie did in the ninth. We saw the slump affect Cora the other night and now Guillen and Jenks.

On the plus side, Freddy was his old self.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2006, 12:06 PM
Greg:

Ozzie didn't say it would end Wednesday. He just gave the times those players needed to be on the field to bunt through then.

Spiffie:

The Sox may have the best talent in baseball but as of right now they are not the best team in baseball, nor are they even the second best team. We'll see where they are come October.

Lip

voodoochile
07-23-2006, 12:13 PM
Greg:

Ozzie didn't say it would end Wednesday. He just gave the times those players needed to be on the field to bunt through then.

Spiffie:

The Sox may have the best talent in baseball but as of right now they are not the best team in baseball, nor are they even the second best team. We'll see where they are come October.

Lip

Lip I got a question for you.

You are constantly mentioning Sox teams that followed a great year with a poor one. Were any of those teams ever as far over .500 as the current one?

CaptainBallz
07-23-2006, 12:20 PM
I don't want to see Bobby in the 8th....Ever


That is all....

Patrick134
07-23-2006, 12:25 PM
4-0 tigers in the first, swisher just let a dp grounder through his legs.

Patrick134
07-23-2006, 12:29 PM
Tigers now up 6-0 in the 1st. Tigers announcers saying that Inge took something he saw in Konerko's swing to help his own.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2006, 12:31 PM
Voodoo:

The ones I mentioned...1968, 1973, 1984 and 1995 imploded and didn't even finish the season with a winning record. Various reasons for this.

Of course none of those clubs ever won a World Series the previous season and had a golden opportunity to 'take back' their own city by posting consecutive postseason apprearences for the first time in franchise history either.

Now there were some Sox teams that were considered the favorites and actually were able to at least post a 'winning' season the following year. 1960, 1965, 1994 and 2001 immediately come to mind. 1965 far and away being the best of those clubs.

At the very least I expect a winning season in 2006. That's my 'core belief' with a club... that regardless of how things go, no matters what happens, or who gets hurt, that you grab your 82 wins and have something positive out of a season.

The stakes though both on and off the field are much, much higher now for this team and this organization and my feelings are somewhat mixed if just having a 'winning season' is good enough anymore.

My comment towards Spiffie was based on his comment that the Sox have the best talent and are the best team. Having the best talent and playing like the best team are to different things entirely.

The 1990 Sox didn't have anywhere close to the best talent yet they won 94 games because they played the best as a team. Ditto for the 2005 squad.

The 1984 Sox had the best talent and completely fell apart because the players got 'complacent' (according to Ron Kittle in his interview with me for WSI.) I also see resemblances to the 2006 Sox team in this regard and have since a lethargic spring training. One where if you remember Ozzie himself called a team meeting after they badly lost their first four games to remind them that while he didn't care about wins and losses in spring training he was concerned about the 'effort' being shown. I've also had conversations with a beat writer who noticed the very same thing in games against K.C. in particular.

Maybe it's human nature and that's certainly part of it. Which I've also stated, 'it's very hard to climb back on top of the mountain when you have already done it. Especially in consecutive seasons...'

We'll see how it shakes out in October.

Lip

voodoochile
07-23-2006, 01:14 PM
Lip:

I was trying for some more specific information. Do you happen to know if any of those teams managed to get to 26 games over .500 or whatever the Sox highwater mark for the season has been so far?

I think it bears talking about because looking at the past is one thing, but this team has hardly dogged it or failed to look like pennant contenders this season. I am wondering if any of the others managed to put up a record like the Sox have so far this season.

spiffie
07-23-2006, 01:40 PM
I don't know if your comments in teal are a rip on me or on those who view Ozzie as infallible. :?: :dunno:

Every knowledgeable fan watches the game and at times comments on what they would do (take him out, pinch hit for this guy, etc.). I'll make these observations but I usually do not post them here as I agree with much of what Ozzie does and it is not right to nit pick each decision every inning / game. However, I do think he is pressing as much if not more than the players this week which is not helping matters.

Cora has driven me nuts for the past 1 2/3 seasons. Being aggressive with fast / average runners is OK. Being "aggressive" (I would call it suicidal) with the slowest members of your team (AJ, Konerko, Thome) is costing us runs. It seems a runner is thrown out by 15 - 20 feet at least once a week. I know Ozzie wants Cora to be aggressive but there is a difference between aggressive and stupid and I think Cora crosses that line a bit too much for my taste. Nobody should be thrown out "from here to Kalamazoo".

I also agree with the statement that we are the best team and if we play at our capabilities we will be OK in October. No need to worry about the Tigers, Twins, Yankees, A's, Rangers, etc. The Sox are in control of their destiny - it is time for the team to seize it.
It's a gentle jab at those people who seem to freak out whenever anyone questions a move of Ozzie's that everyone is shaking their heads about as soon as he does it.

I have no problem with the idea that Cora should be aggressive. If guys are getting thrown out on bang-bang plays at home so be it. But we're getting guys tossed where the catcher has time to go grab a kosher dog and a churro, wander back to home plate, eat, and then apply the tag.

CLR01
07-23-2006, 01:43 PM
Like I said before Bears and Bulls are right around the corner. It's over!

Then go find a Bulls or Bears board.

CLR01
07-23-2006, 01:44 PM
Tigers now up 6-0 in the 1st. Tigers announcers saying that Inge took something he saw in Konerko's swing to help his own.


Post the Tiger game updates in the talking baseball thread.

spiffie
07-23-2006, 01:45 PM
Lip:

I was trying for some more specific information. Do you happen to know if any of those teams managed to get to 26 games over .500 or whatever the Sox highwater mark for the season has been so far?

I think it bears talking about because looking at the past is one thing, but this team has hardly dogged it or failed to look like pennant contenders this season. I am wondering if any of the others managed to put up a record like the Sox have so far this season.
Highwater marks after division winning teams:
1960: 23 games over.
1984: 4 games over.
1995: 1 game under (first day of the year)
2001: 8 games over.

voodoochile
07-23-2006, 01:49 PM
Highwater marks after division winning teams:
1960: 23 games over.
1984: 4 games over.
1995: 1 game under (first day of the year)
2001: 8 games over.

Thanks, so only the 60's squad actually made a run at anything.

This team is clearly not one of those teams. It has performed even if it is scuffling now.

spiffie
07-23-2006, 02:08 PM
Thanks, so only the 60's squad actually made a run at anything.

This team is clearly not one of those teams. It has performed even if it is scuffling now.
2001 could have done something but they dug a very hard early hole. Cleveland only won 91 games that year. If the Sox could have played the .545 ball they played in the second half the whole year through they would have challenged for the division. But they got into too big a hole to climb out despite solid play.

SouthSide_HitMen
07-23-2006, 02:48 PM
It's a gentle jab at those people who seem to freak out whenever anyone questions a move of Ozzie's that everyone is shaking their heads about as soon as he does it.

Cool - I thought so after your comments after the ones in teal.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2006, 04:27 PM
Voodoo:

The 1965 club finished the season at 95-67. (They were the consensus pennant pick after winning 98 games in 1964 losing out to the Yanks by one game and adding Johnny Romano, Tommy John and Tommy Agee in the off season)

The 1973 club had a 4 1/2 game lead in the division in late May and was 26-14 at one point before finishing at 77-85. (The 1973 club was the consensus pick after getting Bill Melton back)

I apologize for not taking you literally in your post. My bad.

I'm not saying the Sox are going to have a losing record, far from it, but it is possible for them to miss the postseason since this funk has now wiped out a decent sized wild card lead. Reminds me of 1996 when they had a 4 1/2 game wild card lead in August or September and the bullpen imploded pissing it away. (Thanks a lot Larry Thomas, Matt Karchner and company!)

Lip