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View Full Version : Grinder rules and small ball


Soxmissy
07-21-2006, 04:34 AM
Question: What happened to Grinder rules and small ball? Is it Me or have the
Sox gotten too dependent on the Long ball? They have to get back to the
fundamentals. Opinions?:(:

Grzegorz
07-21-2006, 05:38 AM
I am not sure what happened to grinder/small ball. To run you have to get on and Ozuna didn't do that. Again, I'd go with my basic lineup sans Iguchi if he's still hurting. I'd try to get the line moving better by trying to hit and run (this might be difficult without Iguchi) and straight stealing with Anderson/Iguchi/Cintron (provided he plays).

Lets face it, unless the pitching and execution gets better this team will not make the playoffs. Hitting will slump from time to time but fundamentals and defense should not slump.

Sad
07-21-2006, 08:11 AM
dunno... they look like a softball team lately...
let's hope they find their groove starting tonight against Texas

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2006, 09:59 AM
You do realize that by playing softball we have the best offense in baseball and the 2nd best record?

sox1970
07-21-2006, 10:07 AM
Grinder rules apply when you need them--close games when you need one run, or when you're facing guys like Kenny Rogers and you know it's going to be a close game. Yesterday was pitiful. Uribe didn't get the sac fly and Ozuna didn't get the bunt down to move Anderson over. That's how you lose 2-1.

TornLabrum
07-21-2006, 10:18 AM
Question: What happened to Grinder rules and small ball? Is it Me or have the
Sox gotten too dependent on the Long ball? They have to get back to the
fundamentals. Opinions?:(:

Sounds like you were listening to Dan Bernstein yesterday.

roadrunner
07-21-2006, 10:25 AM
I have noticed a number of times this year that players are not running hard down the first base line. They let up once they assume the out will be made. I have seen Iguchi and Pods do it a number of times. (Thome and Ozuna always run hard) At Yankee stadium last weekend JD did it in a key situation that would have kept an inning alive. (the defender bobbled the ball and JD would've been safe had he not let up) This seems like a violation of the basic premise of grinder ball. I can't believe that Ozzie has been letting them get away with this.

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2006, 10:33 AM
I have noticed a number of times this year that players are not running hard down the first base line. They let up once they assume the out will be made. I have seen Iguchi and Pods do it a number of times. (Thome and Ozuna always run hard) At Yankee stadium last weekend JD did it in a key situation that would have kept an inning alive. (the defender bobbled the ball and JD would've been safe had he not let up) This seems like a violation of the basic premise of grinder ball. I can't believe that Ozzie has been letting them get away with this.
Grinderball is a marketing tool, so JD violating a marketing ploy doesn't bother me. If it really made Ozzie angry then I'm sure he would have aired it out in the media.

roadrunner
07-21-2006, 10:42 AM
Perhaps you didn't see the game. While I understand that grinder ball is a marketing ploy, it doesn't change the fact that he would've been safe had he been hustling down the line.

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2006, 10:48 AM
Well, I'm sure Ozzie let him have it. I'm much more concerned with the bottom of the order not taking ANY pitches.

viagracat
07-21-2006, 11:07 AM
Hawk and DJ have been all over the lack of "Ozzieball" lately. I think I've seen more botched bunts, station-to-station running and other missing elements of smallball than I saw all of last year.

Adding Thome was a great thing, but it wasn't going to add to "smallball". The heart of the order is there to get big hits, but they're not fast and aren't really there to bunt or do the other little things. And in the times, like now, when they're slumping, it can look like they've forgotten the "grinder rules". I also think, despite Pods' average against lefties, that he needs to play every day. Nothing against Ozuna, but Pods causes havoc on the bases that no other member of the team can do. He sets the table, and that's part of Ozzieball.

A brush-up on some of the fundamentals of the game to some of the players is in order as well. Too many boo-boos lately out there. You didn't see a lot of that last year.

Jjav829
07-21-2006, 11:31 AM
Hawk and DJ have been all over the lack of "Ozzieball" lately. I think I've seen more botched bunts, station-to-station running and other missing elements of smallball than I saw all of last year.

Adding Thome was a great thing, but it wasn't going to add to "smallball". The heart of the order is there to get big hits, but they're not fast and aren't really there to bunt or do the other little things. And in the times, like now, when they're slumping, it can look like they've forgotten the "grinder rules". I also think, despite Pods' average against lefties, that he needs to play every day. Nothing against Ozuna, but Pods causes havoc on the bases that no other member of the team can do. He sets the table, and that's part of Ozzieball.

A brush-up on some of the fundamentals of the game to some of the players is in order as well. Too many boo-boos lately out there. You didn't see a lot of that last year.

Our DHs last year were Frank Thomas and Carl Everett - not exactly "smallball" players either.

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2006, 11:45 AM
2006 Chicago White Sox
-----------------------
-Batting
Runs: 542 (1st)
OPS: .823 (2nd)
HR: 141 (1st)
-Pitching
ERA: 4.44 (15th)
BAA: .268 (14th)
OPS: .759 (14th)
HR: 115 (23rd)

Do you know what the biggest part of Ozzieball was last year? It was not bunting, not hitting to the right side, and not hustling to first. It was absurdly great pitching that KW knew would be impossible to replicate, so he went out and fixed our biggest problem: offense. The team OBP has jumped significantly, and because of that we're scoring more runs. The offense is not the problem, it has been the pitching.

Lip Man 1
07-21-2006, 12:25 PM
Craig:

Tell that stat to the half dozen games lost because the club can't get a bunt down, get a guy over, or get him in. How many bases loaded situations have come up in the last three weeks? How many runs have scored??? how many guys have been left stranded at third with less then two outs???

There's a time for the three run home run and a time for the sacrifice. Great teams (like the Sox of 2005) can do BOTH when needed. That's what wins games.

I agree with you on the pitching but executing some of the 'little things' also adds up to wins. Games where the Sox had chances to do that and failed... all because someone like Uribe couldn't get a bunt down to save his life.

Lip

viagracat
07-21-2006, 12:26 PM
Our DHs last year were Frank Thomas and Carl Everett - not exactly "smallball" players either.

That's true, but Thome was traded for Rowand, who was everyone's definition of a "grinder".

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Thome. He made the team better overall. But the team isn't quite as fast overall now, and injuries to guys like Pods and Gooch have affected their prowess on the basepaths a little as well.

Having said all this; the most obvious solution is for those guys in position to do the little things is to work on them a bit extra; e.g. bunting. When they tighten that up, the Sox will have a good combo of basics and power that will make them very tough offensively.

We also need to get the swagger back in our rotation, but that's another thread...

Craig Grebeck
07-21-2006, 12:28 PM
Didn't we go over this when we made the trade? Thome replaces Everett and Anderson replaces Rowand...no speed lost.