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View Full Version : Who would you rather have traded?


ChicagoG19
07-20-2006, 07:59 PM
Obviously most of you have heard the trade rumors swirling around about Javier and Freddy. I was just wondering who you guys think should be traded or should we keep both.

Chips
07-20-2006, 08:00 PM
Keep them both.

rowand33
07-20-2006, 08:02 PM
Obviously most of you have heard the trade rumors swirling around about Javier and Freddy. I was just wondering who you guys think should be traded or should we keep both.

it's a tough call.

Freddy's stuff does not appear to be very good this season. It seems like the world caseball classic and the playoffs really took its toll on him. However, he's a proven playoff pitcher, and I have more hope of him being good next year than I do Vazquez.

Vazquez has the better stuff, but he's never proven himself.

It really is a tough call. I guess you trade whoever has more value. I honestly don't know which one of them that is.

I don't really think either will be traded though.

HartmanSox
07-20-2006, 08:06 PM
Freddy...I see some hope in him. I say keep him unless you come across a sweetheart deal.

Vasquez.....get rid of him. Seriously, this guy is like Jekyll and Hyde. One bad pitch and he's a different pitcher. Can't keep his composure. Appears to be stubborn, unwilling to change his pitching style for the good of the team. Cracks under pressure. Average at best. McCarthy would be MUCH better suited than him, hell McCarthy seems more composed on the mound.

CRAW
07-20-2006, 08:11 PM
Freddy, unless he gets himself back in shape and true to form. Vasquez, well he has the stuff, he (imo) needs to get past the mental part of baseball.

sircaffey1
07-20-2006, 08:13 PM
Ditch Freddy. His upside with his crappy 86 MPH fastball is mediocre at best. He's not Greg Maddux.

Keep Vazquez. He's got really good stuff, but the mental makeup sucks. Similar situation to Contreras two seasons ago. Javy's upside is much higher than Freddy's at this point in their careers. Freddy just looks pathetic.

Chips
07-20-2006, 08:16 PM
Ditch Freddy. His upside with his crappy 86 MPH fastball is mediocre at best. He's not Greg Maddux.

Keep Vazquez. He's got really good stuff, but the mental makeup sucks. Similar situation to Contreras two seasons ago. Javy's upside is much higher than Freddy's at this point in their careers. Freddy just looks pathetic.

Freddy is in a minor slump. This is the same guy who started out the season 7-1. He lost his last two decisions, he won the three before that. I'll keep him around for the rest of the season and then some.

ChicagoG19
07-20-2006, 08:22 PM
Ditch Freddy. His upside with his crappy 86 MPH fastball is mediocre at best. He's not Greg Maddux.

Keep Vazquez. He's got really good stuff, but the mental makeup sucks. Similar situation to Contreras two seasons ago. Javy's upside is much higher than Freddy's at this point in their careers. Freddy just looks pathetic. I think I'm keeping freddy because he might not have the stuff but he's mentally tougher than Javier and we're gonna need that to make it to the playoffs and succeed in the playoffs.

ChiSox80
07-20-2006, 08:30 PM
I have to say Freddy. You can't coach his fastball into gaining back the missing 8 or 9 mph.

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2006, 08:38 PM
Today is July 20. Brandon McCarthy has pitched in the bullpen ALL year. Those who want to trade one of these starters and throw McCarthy into the rotation do realize that it will take TIME to stretch him out?

:angry:

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 08:38 PM
If I had to choose I would have to say Freddy, Javy has like 4 pitches he can throw for strike consistently. Freddy seems to be a bit weathered at this point in time.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-20-2006, 08:43 PM
As much as I hate Vasquez at the moment, Garland used to be the same pitcher. One huge crooked number inning a game and game over. He has gotten over that. Was it maturity, the Sox coaching staff? Can that apply to Vasquez, we gave big Jon more than three months. But we weren't serious World Series contenders back then so you could give guys more time to develop. It's so hard to wait for talent to develop with expectations so high. To answer your question, I guess which ever one the other GM asks for.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-20-2006, 08:46 PM
Today is July 20. Brandon McCarthy has pitched in the bullpen ALL year. Those who want to trade one of these starters and throw McCarthy into the rotation do realize that it will take TIME to stretch him out?

:angry:

Because Vasquez gives us 8 innings every start, we need to replace that.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-20-2006, 08:47 PM
I would keep Vazquez over Freddy. Vazquez reminds me too much of 2005's 1st half Contreras. He has the stuff to be great. I just hope he comes around like Contreras did.

digdagdug23
07-20-2006, 08:48 PM
Because it has to be done.

:threadsucks

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 09:04 PM
If a deal is made you have to keep Vasquez. The Sox can control his contract for the next three years.

Freddy may be on the downside of his good career and pitching in that insane WBC didn't help things.

Lip

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2006, 09:06 PM
Because Vasquez gives us 8 innings every start, we need to replace that.

LOL, so you think a guy who hasn't pitched more than 4 innings in a game this season is a better solution? McCarthy's ERA is AVERAGE. He's not a freeking savior.

Geez, this place is out of control tonight.

Mohoney
07-20-2006, 10:09 PM
Keep both starters. DFA Gload and call up Ryan Sweeney because WE NEED A BACKUP OF!. Trade a low-level prospect or two for a backup C to replace Chris Widger (I'm getting real sick of seeing goose eggs in the H column accompanied with a number 3 or higher in the LOB column EVERY DAMN TIME THIS GUY PLAYS!). Then, if possible, trade a couple of middle-tier prospects and add an arm to the bullpen.

AJ could have just as easily taken a much less important game tomorrow off. Who knows? Maybe an All-Star can drive in at least 1 of the 4 runners that Widger left on base regardless of the hand that an opposing pitcher (with an ERA over 4 going in, by the way, despite playing his home games in a pitchers' haven) throws with?

Some food for thought: AJ is hitting .288 against LHP, while Widger is hitting .149 against LHP. Matchups don't mean a thing here when the choice is between a champion thoroughbred and a broken-down mule with 4 busted hooves.

AJ didn't play in the All-Star game, and didn't play the 1st game against Randy Johnson, either. He caught Saturday and Sunday, WAS OFF MONDAY, and caught Tuesday and Wednesday. He is coming off a stretch where he had 5 days off in a row, and 6 out of 10 days off.

I know that you need to keep your catcher rested, but can't you just go ahead and play him against the team that you're chasing and give him the next day off against a team with a tangibly worse record?

JB98
07-20-2006, 10:12 PM
Keep 'em both.

cbrownson13
07-20-2006, 10:41 PM
LOL, so you think a guy who hasn't pitched more than 4 innings in a game this season is a better solution? McCarthy's ERA is AVERAGE. He's not a freeking savior.

Geez, this place is out of control tonight.

McCarthy's ERA is somewhat inflated due to being in the bullpen. As a regular starter, that ERA would go down somewhat.

Jjav829
07-20-2006, 10:46 PM
Vazquez. Freddy's only 30. There's no real reason he should be on the downside of his career at this point. The lack of velocity is disturbing, but it's possible it will come back. Look at Jason Schmidt.

And for those who are still preaching Vazquez's upside and in the same breath knocking Garcia as being past his good years, here's a disturbing reality for you. Vazquez is only 35 days younger than Freddy and has actually thrown 209 more innings in his career than Freddy.

Mr. White Sox
07-20-2006, 10:58 PM
Whoever said to call Sweeney up...not yet. He's riding an insane hot streak in AAA right now, and it would suck to call him up and have him ride the bench during that time. Maybe call him up in september - maybe - but otherwise I'd keep him (and Fields) down on the farm until later. Keep in mind that Sweeney is only 22 at this point (right? Or is he younger).

Chips
07-20-2006, 11:09 PM
And for those who are still preaching Vazquez's upside and in the same breath knocking Garcia as being past his good years, here's a disturbing reality for you. Vazquez is only 35 days younger than Freddy and has actually thrown 209 more innings in his career than Freddy.

Vazquez is one year younger than Freddy.

Vazquez started pitching in 1998.

Freddy started pitching in 1999.

That might explain the difference in innings pitched, not to mention Freddy only started 21 games in 2000 with 124 IP.

Jjav829
07-20-2006, 11:12 PM
Vazquez is one year younger than Freddy.

Vazquez started pitching in 1998.

Freddy started pitching in 1999.

That might explain the difference in innings pitched, not to mention Freddy only started 21 games in 2000 with 124 IP.

Javier Vazquez Date of Birth - 07/25/76
Freddy Garcia Date of Birth - 06/10/76

Chips
07-20-2006, 11:22 PM
Javier Vazquez Date of Birth - 07/25/76
Freddy Garcia Date of Birth - 06/10/76
According to baseball reference Freddy was born in 1975. Maybe it's wrong.

Freddy (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garcifr03.shtml)

But according to mlb.com he was born in 1976.

:?:

Jjav829
07-20-2006, 11:25 PM
According to baseball reference Freddy was born in 1975. Maybe it's wrong.

Freddy (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garcifr03.shtml)

The official site says 76, so I'm assuming they would have it correct.

Chips
07-20-2006, 11:26 PM
The official site says 76, so I'm assuming they would have it correct.

I'll assume that 1976 is correct as well, but the extra year of pitching will explain the difference in innings.

santo=dorf
07-20-2006, 11:28 PM
The official site says El Duque was born in 1969, not 1965 like baseball-reference.

Domeshot17
07-20-2006, 11:35 PM
Both, if only 1 can go, Freddy.

Vazquez you can see is in pain struggling. But he gets a little better every game. I know he pisses us all off, but if most are like me, the next day I am like, man he didnt throw that bad. 2 bloop hits, a ball shoulda been caught, then a hanger. Maybe he was left in a little too long. But he has a live arm, mostly good stuff (if he ever ditches the curveball). I just think he has a chance to be great. He pisses the hell out of me, but because you can almost see the greatness he has and then he doesnt have the mental toughness or focus to keep it together. I think that is something that maybe working with a guy like contreras (who had the same problem) can be corrected. I just think Vazquez has a chance, a real chance, to go on a big time run.

Freddy is another story. I love Freddy, Saw his first home game he threw here. He just has completely lost it. the guy is throwing 86-88 with no movement. His curve doesnt have the sick "bite" it used too. His control hasnt been great, he just has become very average. I know its tough to see him detoriate, but I think Freddy, after last year, playing with Ozzie, became "Fat n Happy". There was questions about his off season program because of how out of shape he came into camp, and then never got to catch up because of the WBC. I think his arm doesnt have it anymore. I think if you can get a top notch set up man and maybe a good spec out of the deal, by all means do it. Omar has had a major mancrush on Freddy for years, and I think we could get a great deal out of it.

BadBobbyJenks
07-21-2006, 12:14 AM
Keep them both.


:thumbsup: agreed, they are not going anywhere

Mohoney
07-21-2006, 09:03 AM
Whoever said to call Sweeney up...not yet. He's riding an insane hot streak in AAA right now, and it would suck to call him up and have him ride the bench during that time. Maybe call him up in september - maybe - but otherwise I'd keep him (and Fields) down on the farm until later. Keep in mind that Sweeney is only 22 at this point (right? Or is he younger).

You're probably right, and definitely more grounded in reality than I am, but if we did call Sweeney up, I think that he could get, minimum, a start in RF, a start in CF, and a start in LF per week, plus he would see some time as a late-inning defensive replacement for Pods or Mack.

Who knows? If he carries his hot streak with him to the Majors, maybe he can pinch-hit some, too.

This can keep Mack out of CF and Pablo out of LF. It's not fair to these guys to keep playing them out of position because we're an OF short.

I think he'll be active enough to make it worth our while (Ozzie plays his bench guys more than a lot of other AL managers), and I kind of like the idea of him experiencing a big-time pennant chase for more than just September. In fact, I think that both Anderson and Sweeney will be better off for it.

Gavin
07-21-2006, 09:37 AM
Vasquez. Please get rid of him. Freddy is a company guy.

chaotic8512
07-21-2006, 09:43 AM
As far as the starter situation, I would have to say Vazquez, if anyone, simply based upon the information provided by Jjav regarding the extra year of innings on his arm... but we lose a starter already at the end of the year regardless with Freddy (this is his contract year, yes?), so the question that comes up then is it is wise to leave a 5th starter to chance on what's available in the market. The deal had better be good, however... I don't want the deal if it's going to be any sort of dump.

You're probably right, and definitely more grounded in reality than I am, but if we did call Sweeney up, I think that he could get, minimum, a start in RF, a start in CF, and a start in LF per week, plus he would see some time as a late-inning defensive replacement for Pods or Mack.

Who knows? If he carries his hot streak with him to the Majors, maybe he can pinch-hit some, too.

This can keep Mack out of CF and Pablo out of LF. It's not fair to these guys to keep playing them out of position because we're an OF short.

I think he'll be active enough to make it worth our while (Ozzie plays his bench guys more than a lot of other AL managers), and I kind of like the idea of him experiencing a big-time pennant chase for more than just September. In fact, I think that both Anderson and Sweeney will be better off for it.
A callup like that would be good for Sweeney (to finally give him some ML experience), but ONLY IF we can't get any sort of deal for a true backup CF in the next couple of weeks and we are completely out of options... I do agree with Mr. White Sox about letting Sweeney remain for the purpose of PT, though, considering we brought up BA last September and got to ride the bench. Not saying that that is the definite cause of his early season low average, but it does make you think...

Dealings aside, I'm guessing there won't be any move of that sort until the September callups anyway since Ozzie has been so adamant on keeping the aforementioned two with the intention of spot-starting them in positions my grandmother could defend better.

The only question is would Sweeney be much of a better option, being a RF and all? Or does he have experience in LF and CF?

KyWhiSoxFan
07-21-2006, 09:44 AM
I'd get rid of Garcia. He has more value today since he was successful in the playoffs last year, so a team that wants a "proven" playoff pitcher would want him for their staff. Garcia will be out of the league in a couple of years the way he is going.

Getting rid of Garcia frees up $9-million that can be used on the free agent market this winter for a pitcher.

That enables McCarthy to move into the rotation (okay, slowly, five innings at first) and put some energy into the pitching staff.

SouthSoxFan
07-21-2006, 09:48 AM
Garcia is due to make 10MM in 2007, the last year of his contract.

Vazquez earns 12.5MM in 2007, but NY and AZ pay 3MM each, so he's quite a bit cheaper. Plus, after '07 he's arb eligible; he can't file for free agency until the 2008 season is over.

sox420fan
07-21-2006, 09:53 AM
Because it has to be done.

:threadsucks HERE HERE

samram
07-21-2006, 10:15 AM
If one had to be traded, I would deal Vazquez- and I'm saying that after I predicted he would lead the team in wins. He's not mentally tough and he seems to be a one-pitch pitcher, but I can't seem to figure out what pitch that is (I'll call it a "gopherball").

Freddy is a proven big-game pitcher and at least there's the possibility he'll reach the seventh inning in his starts; same can't be said for Javy.

FloridaSox
07-21-2006, 10:17 AM
Who is going to pick the salaries of either Freddy or Javier? If there is a trade, we will have swallow a lot of salary.

Sell Jerry Sell!
07-21-2006, 10:27 AM
Trade Cotts! :(:

White Sox Randy
07-21-2006, 10:40 AM
Naturally, all trades depend on what we are offered. Assuming that it's nothing unusually special for either one - I say keep them both because we will likely get better offers in the offseason.

Also, I think that if we could trade some prospects for a top notch reliever like a Tom Gordon then, I think we should put McCarthy in the rotation and go with a 6-man rotation.

This way McCarthy gets stretched out and our other 5 get some rest for the playoffs. If the possible issues are that TH WBC has tired out Garcia and Vazquez and the years have tired out Buehrle, wouldn't this be worth trying in August ?