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View Full Version : *Official* Groan, let's get home postgame thread 7-20


DumpJerry
07-20-2006, 04:00 PM
Get our boys home now!

patbooyah
07-20-2006, 04:00 PM
we'll turn it around soon. I'm sure.

Law11
07-20-2006, 04:00 PM
we are closer to third than 1st now...

Good God! get Home guys

JUribe1989
07-20-2006, 04:00 PM
Go ****ing riot about it Detroit.

SABRSox
07-20-2006, 04:02 PM
Before you even start, I hate you dark clouds. With every fiber of my being I hate you.

Let the Widger Whining begin.

32nd&Wallace
07-20-2006, 04:02 PM
Memo to Jim Thome: Not every at-bat has to result in a home run

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2006, 04:02 PM
Frustrating. Let's take Texas and Minnesota in front of six sellouts!!!

MERPER
07-20-2006, 04:02 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

StatHead21
07-20-2006, 04:03 PM
Better now than in September like last year...

INSox56
07-20-2006, 04:03 PM
Same old BS. Situational hitting bites us hard. Christ we are absolutely horrid at times. "Another opportunity wasted" is quickly becoming our mantra it seems

itsnotrequired
07-20-2006, 04:03 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

:rolleyes:

WSox8404
07-20-2006, 04:03 PM
Methinks I am going to go for a LOOONNNGGG run right now.

samram
07-20-2006, 04:03 PM
we'll turn it around soon. I'm sure.

You don't sound so sure (or whatever the equivalent would be for typing).:D:

Well, 2-7 against Boston, NYY, and the Tigers. I'll call that less than impressive.

oeo
07-20-2006, 04:03 PM
I can't believe we just lost 2 out of 3 to that team. There are better teams in the AL...and we just ****ed up this series.

They came out with fire in their eyes on Tuesday, and then thought the series was over. Maybe this will wake them up.

kraut83
07-20-2006, 04:04 PM
Wow, what a waste of good pitching. I'm glad I didn't take the day off for this suckfest.

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:04 PM
It was a much better game than yesterday. BA looks a lot better and Jose pitched alright.

I just don't think this is our year. Hope for the best. Prepared for the worst.

cbotnyse
07-20-2006, 04:04 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!you should not be here...IMHO.

IronFisk
07-20-2006, 04:04 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Violinski/hurrithread.jpg

rowand33
07-20-2006, 04:05 PM
Nothing to worry about guys, it's only July

I have nothing else to say other than that we have to stop playing like ****.

I'd really like for this team to start living up to its potential, and I'd really like for this team to play better. That means laying down bunts. That means punishing people when they give you an extra out. That means not running into each other in the outfield.

It'd just be nice for the team to look like they give a **** day in and day out.

PeteWard
07-20-2006, 04:05 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

Thank you Joe Kennedy. Or do you ghost write for jay mariotti?

MrX
07-20-2006, 04:05 PM
Ozzie should spend some time going off on his team for that horse**** effort instead of the game of baseball, players on other teams, and sports columnists.

Thanks to BA and Jose for being the only 2 players for bothering to show up today.

DaleJRFan
07-20-2006, 04:05 PM
Someone asked why the detRIOT fans were booing AJ. This might explain why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2525212

Evidentially, AJ elbowed Monroe after his GS yesterday.

Deuce
07-20-2006, 04:05 PM
Memo to Jim Thome: Not every at-bat has to result in a home run:thome:
"What do you mean? I haven't hit a dinger in a while!?!?!?"

1917
07-20-2006, 04:06 PM
C'mon guys, what do you expect...WIDGER WAS PLAYING!! par for the course. Horrible game, they should be ashamed, I haven't been this mad about a loss all year. 2 game swing

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2006, 04:06 PM
I wonder how frustrated KW is now. In an interview during the Comcast pregame show, he was not happy over how we have been playing.

oeo
07-20-2006, 04:06 PM
You don't sound so sure (or whatever the equivalent would be for typing).:D:

Well, 2-7 against Boston, NYY, and the Tigers. I'll call that less than impressive.

The way they've played lately, it could have just as easily been 2-7 against the Devil Rays, Cubs, and Pirates.

They should have taken the series against the Yankees, and they should have swept the Tigers in this one. HOPEFULLY, this wakes them up and they start to play like we all know they can ****ing play.

kevingrt
07-20-2006, 04:06 PM
Time to get out of here until Monday... This place might blow up, I'm on a leave

NardiWasHere
07-20-2006, 04:06 PM
I like going wire-to-wire much better.

SoxShirt
07-20-2006, 04:06 PM
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/Violinski/hurrithread.jpg That's a pretty cool picture...

whitesoxfan
07-20-2006, 04:06 PM
Road trip from hell. Luckily all 3 pitching matchups favor us against Texas and 2 out of the 3 pitching matchups should favor Oakland over Detroit. Time to do some home cooking and hopefully we can get this to 2 1/2 or less by the time the damn Kittens come to the Cell.

Dan H
07-20-2006, 04:07 PM
At least there were two well-pitched games in this series for the Sox. This is a big boost for the Tigers and not only in the won-loss column. Detroit is not going to fold, and the Sox need to turn it around right now. Three straight series loss is enough.

oeo
07-20-2006, 04:07 PM
Time to get out of here until Monday... This place might blow up, I'm on a leave

I'm thinking the same thing...I won't be able to take the rest of the day around here, so I'm signing out until we win another series.

thomas35forever
07-20-2006, 04:07 PM
What a waste of opportunities we had in this one. Good Lord. When will Detroit go through their own slump??? If I didn't have a carnival to go to tonight, I'd be miserable for the rest of the day.

Uncle_Patrick
07-20-2006, 04:07 PM
Someone asked why the detRIOT fans were booing AJ. This might explain why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2525212

Evidentially, AJ elbowed Monroe after his GS yesterday.

What bull****. AJ didn't even move an inch. Monroe bumped right into him.

CommanderPudge72
07-20-2006, 04:07 PM
Before you even start, I hate you dark clouds. With every fiber of my being I hate you.

Let the Widger Whining begin.

Now that is a dark cloud whine about dark clouds...kinda ironic, don't you think. Yeah, I really do think.

SoxFan78
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
WORST.ROADTRIP.EVER

Get this out of your system Sox. You would of thought after being swept in NY that they would of woke up.

WRONG

Hopefully the full crowds at Comiskey for the next 6 games will give the hitters some confidence.

No longer can the Sox say they own Detroit, not after this series.

Again another night I cannot watch Comcast Sportsnite, Sportscenter, Baseball tonight.

Oh well, here is to a night of this. :gulp:

cleanwsox
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Ugh, not a good start to the 2nd half. It's frustrating seeing that I was on cloud nine just 24 hours ago thinking we had this series and would be gaining some ground on the Tigers. Oh well, lots of baseball still left.... but we need to get hot here soon.

whitesoxfan
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Someone asked why the detRIOT fans were booing AJ. This might explain why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2525212

Evidentially, AJ elbowed Monroe after his GS yesterday.

Give me a ****ing break. Monroe bumped into AJ, it looked unintentional, but AJ did nothing to Monroe. If Tigger fans are whining about that, they really are pretty messed up.

CaptainBallz
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

Do you ever stop??

How does the entire top of the order forget how to hit for two straight games? Embarrassing....

Fake Chet Lemon
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Why is Chris Widger on any major league roster this year?
Gotta love Brian Anderson!!!!:bandance:

Great try by Contreras, but the game was lost when we failed to score again with bases loaded and two outs. This all or nothing offense sucks, bring back small ball. I'd rather have 9 Aaron Rowands batting 1-9 than 9 Jim Thome's batting 1-9. Power is just too hot and cold.

DaveIsHere
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Has this returned???

CORPSEBALL :(:

Chips
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

Get a ****ing clue.

schmitty9800
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Memo to Jim Thome: Not every at-bat has to result in a home run

Well what choice does he have? Either slap it to left, or try and power it into a gap in right. He can't get cute against the shift.

Iwritecode
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Someone asked why the detRIOT fans were booing AJ. This might explain why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2525212

Evidentially, AJ elbowed Monroe after his GS yesterday.

And of course the media is all over the story. :rolleyes:

The Cubune's story. (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-060720sozajmonroe,1,4958126.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

"I put my arm up to brace myself when he ran into me," he said. "This was his fault, and I'm getting the blame. I thought this was over last night, but now he's changing his story. That's kind of bush."

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:09 PM
They just don't have the magic of last year. Maybe it will be like the Yankees in 1997; one bad year before a run of greatness. Hope they can turn it around but with Jose as the only reliable starter...

kittle42
07-20-2006, 04:09 PM
Vazquez sucks.

Chris Widger sucks.

Nevertheless, when your 1-4 hitters go 0-for-****ing-29 in two straight games, you won't win many games.

Buehrle better come out looking like Buehrle tomorrow.

Bill Naharodny
07-20-2006, 04:09 PM
A couple of observations, based not on pessisim, but on what I actually SEE:

First, we need a good weekend. I'd be willing to bet that Detroit, good as they are, will suffer just a tiny let down this weekend. We need to make up some ground.

Second, sometimes, you are what you are. And I think the White Sox just might not be a good fundamental team on offense. It's July 20. We've seen the same mistakes -- and failure to move runners and execute -- over and over again. The question is -- can they do better?

Third, the 0-29 statistic is a dodge. It's not about those guys not hitting. It's about not creating opportunities by bunting and bringing in runners from third base.

I love this team. But this was playoff-style baseball. And we don't look like a playoff-style team. We're not executing. We're on our heels. We're not the aggressors out there.

Three positives: Contreras looked great. Garland looked great. And Anderson's putting it together and gaining more confidence every day.

michned
07-20-2006, 04:10 PM
Things will get better. Remember, it's July 20. The Tigers definitely have magic this year, just like the Sox did last year. But it's only a 5.5 game lead in July (no teal here).

Think pleasant thoughts...

getonbckthr
07-20-2006, 04:10 PM
I just pray the broken-up double play doesn't mentally screw our team like the Torrie Hunter play a couple years ago.

Jaffar
07-20-2006, 04:10 PM
Someone asked why the detRIOT fans were booing AJ. This might explain why:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2525212

Evidentially, AJ elbowed Monroe after his GS yesterday.

Actually Monroe was pushed into AJ by his own teammate during thier celebrating.

Dan Mega
07-20-2006, 04:10 PM
That stinks. Go home and start a 20 game winning streak. That'll show em.

samram
07-20-2006, 04:11 PM
The way they've played lately, it could have just as easily been 2-7 against the Devil Rays, Cubs, and Pirates.

They should have taken the series against the Yankees, and they should have swept the Tigers in this one. HOPEFULLY, this wakes them up and they start to play like we all know they can ****ing play.

The problem here is the offense has had a ton of pressure on it lately to put up 5 or 6 at least just to have a chance. Now they get some decent pitching, save one crucial inning, and they can only get one win because, as happens, the offense went away for a couple of days. It's time to turn this around- now. Going into August down five games is no damn good- there's no guarantee of either a Detroit collapse (far from that) or a 2005 Cleveland type run by the Sox.

Kwrubac
07-20-2006, 04:11 PM
Thank you Joe Kennedy. Or do you ghost write for jay mariotti?

Remember he's the guy that knows somebody whose friend's of a third cousin removed who overheard while milking a cow that the Sox may or may NOT make a trade...so clearly he knows what hes talking about!!

In all seriousness, it's a tough loss, we've hit a rough patch right now and the Tiggers will have one at some point too, keep the faith!!

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:11 PM
Widger and Gload have no business on the team. Widger could not throw out the catcher on a pitchout. He's as done as Cliff. So long and farewell.

Detroit looks just like us last year. The Sox need to shake things up.

Iwritecode
07-20-2006, 04:11 PM
Better now than in September like last year...

Actually, I think it was August when they started slumping last year. They also had a huge cushion to fall back on...

Shift
07-20-2006, 04:11 PM
This team is in a wild card race now. They'll need some help to get back into the division race, but right now I'll be focusing on their position in the wild card standings.

Need help against the Tigers please.

PKalltheway
07-20-2006, 04:12 PM
It sure was a damn shame to see such a good pitched game by Big Jose go to waste. He pitched every bit as good as Big Jon did on Monday, but Jose didn't get the run support. Oh well, lets go get the Rangers!:cool:

Uncle_Patrick
07-20-2006, 04:12 PM
Actually Monroe was pushed into AJ by his own teammate during thier celebrating.

I think this is just Monroe and the press trying to create some controversy. AJ is an easy target.

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2006, 04:12 PM
I'm frustrated as hell over our third series loss in a row. However, I am not going to write off our team. I hope Ozzie and/or KW gives them holy hell in the clubhouse over how they played. Yet, it would be downright foolish to believe that we're going to finish out of first place. This team is good enough to win.

Epark84
07-20-2006, 04:12 PM
yeah we own detroit...this is getting pathetic...if we get passed up the twins......

DaleJRFan
07-20-2006, 04:13 PM
Actually Monroe was pushed into AJ by his own teammate during thier celebrating.

I know. I was just sayin'... the fans were booing because that is Monroe's side of the story. We side with AJ, they side with Monroe.

MarySwiss
07-20-2006, 04:13 PM
(Sigh!) Well, I'm off to write the TBGR for this game. It should be a relatively brief one.

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 04:13 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!! So if your so sure the team isnt going to make the playoffs why the hell do you stil watch the games? Or care for that matter??

nasox
07-20-2006, 04:18 PM
They just don't have the magic of last year. Maybe it will be like the Yankees in 1997; one bad year before a run of greatness. Hope they can turn it around but with Jose as the only reliable starter...

What about Jon?

I'll just say this: Last year was last year. I understand that. But that team would have won this game.

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2006, 04:19 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

Don't let the door hit you in the ass you ****ing troll.

monkeypants
07-20-2006, 04:19 PM
Corpseball.

Situational hitting is non-existant.
Running is sluggish.
Fielding is not sharp.

At least Jose showed up to play today.

When you only allow 2 runs against a good hitting team like Detroit, then you should win the game.
When you get 7 hits, 4 walks and the other team allows 1 error, then you should get more than 1 run and then win the game.
When you consitantly hit into double plays and leave a lot of men on base, then you will not win these games.

I'm so frustrated.

CYGarland20
07-20-2006, 04:20 PM
This one goes squarely on the offense. Horrible gameplan against Rogers, and once again, poor execution with runners on base. And Oz, can we please leave the starting lineup in there for a while??

goon
07-20-2006, 04:21 PM
i'm depressed.

let's hope this team can find som chemistry or enjoyment in playing the game in this next homestand. if they don't, we literally have something to worry about. this sucks.

samram
07-20-2006, 04:21 PM
I'm frustrated as hell over our third series loss in a row. However, I am not going to write off our team. I hope Ozzie and/or KW gives them holy hell in the clubhouse over how they played. Yet, it would be downright foolish to believe that we're going to finish out of first place. This team is good enough to win.

Well, no way one can write off the team yet. The whole deal here is the Sox are starting to pay for underachievement by the starting pitchers- it happens with every team that has mediocre starting pitching (notice, I didn't say mediocre starters). The thing about these Sox, I feel, is they always seem to come up with the big plays when needed- we saw it all during the playoffs and late September last season.

Oh, good day for BA, too. He looks like he's finally getting it.

ShoelessJoeS
07-20-2006, 04:22 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!Get a new hobby Darkest of Clouds.

Cellview22
07-20-2006, 04:23 PM
The crowd needs to step it up and wake up the offense. All 6 games should be playoff type atmospheres and loud as he!!.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-20-2006, 04:23 PM
Before you even start, I hate you dark clouds. .


All the "Ostriches" on this site with their head in the sand are equally annoying. The "Ostrich" posters belong on cubs.com.

white sox bill
07-20-2006, 04:24 PM
Relax guys, its called going thru a "funk". We will be just fine. Does everyone expect to win every series?

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:24 PM
The Sox crapped away the edge they had over the Tigers yesterday. Today they got beat, which happens.

The season rests on the shoulders of Mark and Freddy. I do not like them against the Rangers, but we'll see.

The Sox dug themselves a hell of a hole. It will take some luck to get out of it.

I hope that this series puts to rest the b.s. that the division is our birthright and Detroit is an abberation talk.

thomas35forever
07-20-2006, 04:24 PM
At least this team will have the luxury of playing in front of their own fans for the next six days. We need to get it together and quick.

CurtisEBear
07-20-2006, 04:25 PM
...not to sound like a total BA groupie...he was the only one who looked like he had "the swagger" today.

Oh well...off to USCF tomorrow to see what will hopefully be a return to form against Tejas....

CYGarland20
07-20-2006, 04:25 PM
Relax guys, its called going thru a "funk". We will be just fine. Does everyone expect to win every series?No, but the way we have played against Boston, New York, and Detroit does warrant some cause for concern. Not to mention lack of execution offensively and defensively

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:26 PM
Amen on the Ostrich comment. The gleam off the trophy has blinded once truthful fans for too long this year.

This team needs an overhaul starting with the useless Gload and Widger.

Paulwny
07-20-2006, 04:27 PM
It came down to the little things,
Uribe-- bases loaded 1 out---pop up
Ozuna---Anderson on 2nd 0 out-- can't advance him to third
Crede --bad toss to 2nd base on the attempted dp

nasox
07-20-2006, 04:27 PM
They just don't have the magic of last year. Maybe it will be like the Yankees in 1997; one bad year before a run of greatness. Hope they can turn it around but with Jose as the only reliable starter...

What about Jon?

I'll just say this: Last year was last year. I understand that. But that team would have won this game.

INSox56
07-20-2006, 04:28 PM
Let's hope our MVP, JD doesn't start to falter. 2-3 with a BB. ANOTHER good game. He stops producing, we're in even MORE trouble.

SoxSpeed22
07-20-2006, 04:28 PM
The Sox had more than enough chances to score and didn't. I think our side lost to them more than their side beat our side.

viagracat
07-20-2006, 04:28 PM
Hate to say it, but Detroit wanted this one more than the Sox did. The Tigers played hard-nosed and smart. Detroit looked like last year's (and at times this year's) White Sox.

Time to get that same mindset back over here, boys. You're better than this. Do you truly understand that?

DaveIsHere
07-20-2006, 04:29 PM
Does everyone expect to win every series?

I actually Expect to win every game!! So since we are not undefeated this year I am quite disappointed.:D:

mbwhitesox
07-20-2006, 04:29 PM
This one definitely hurts. Contreras looked good, but Detroit absolutely dominated the heart of our lineup. Why do we have so much trouble putting good pitching and good hitting performances together in the same game?

Another thing I noticed in yesterday's and today's game, is that it seemed like a lot of our hitters were swinging for the fences every at-bat. How many deep fly balls did the Detroit outfielders catch at or just in front of the warning track in the past two games? Like ten?

I hate to say it, but the Tigers reminded me a lot of last year's White Sox. Getting the lead-off man on, stealing bases, doing all the little things right, hitting at the right times and of course, dominant pitching.

I'm not ready to jump off the ledge, but I went from feeling very confident the Sox were better than the Tigers, to only kind of confident.

rowand33
07-20-2006, 04:29 PM
Amen on the Ostrich comment. The gleam off the trophy has blinded once truthful fans for too long this year.

This team needs an overhaul starting with the useless Gload and Widger.

completely agree. At least the hardcore dark clouds realize that the team has a problem.

If you want to watch a team play like **** and not be held accountable for it, go right ahead, we already have one of those in Chicago.

We are too talented for this. Underachieving pisses me off. I can not get over the fact that we can not bunt this year.

SoxFan78
07-20-2006, 04:30 PM
Relax guys, its called going thru a "funk". We will be just fine. Does everyone expect to win every series?

Not every series. But I also dont expect the sox to go 1-5 on a road trip after the all star break either.

Law11
07-20-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm banning myself from here until the weekend. Ok so its a day but you get the point...If you have nothing good to say keep the yapper shut.

Thats what Im doing.

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2006, 04:30 PM
Amen on the Ostrich comment. The gleam off the trophy has blinded once truthful fans for too long this year.

This team needs an overhaul starting with the useless Gload and Widger.

An overhaul? Wow. *****.

Rocky Soprano
07-20-2006, 04:30 PM
Amen on the Ostrich comment. The gleam off the trophy has blinded once truthful fans for too long this year.

This team needs an overhaul starting with the useless Gload and Widger.


Overhaul? Do you even know the meaning of the word?

You say overhaul but start with Gload and Widger, yeah that is a overhaul alright.

The team is struggling but they are too good to not get out of it.
2 months to play, too early to panic.

spiffie
07-20-2006, 04:30 PM
I hope that this will at least stop the people who were able to brush anything under the carpet by pointing out that we were 5-1 against Detroit, and from that assumed we would keep winning 5 out of every 6 against them. Not to say we still can't come back and sweep them next time we meet, but no longer can anyone assume that as long as we have all those H2H games vs. the Tigers that we are guaranteed to make up ground on them.

Good to see Anderson continuing to get himself together at the plate. This kind of day, even in a losing effort, can only help him get more and more confident up there.

They seem very deflated. I don't think they need to be chewed out. I think they need to step back and start demanding they play up to their own abilities. Get some pride going, and challenge each other to step up and make something good happen. And that has to begin with the starting pitching. We get some more starts like we got this series from Garland and Contreras and we will win a lot more series than we lose.

nofluke69
07-20-2006, 04:30 PM
Maybe everyone needs to take Brian Anderson's approach by going up the middle and just get a base hit. Walker, please let Thome know that we will take a base hit from time to time.

monkeypants
07-20-2006, 04:31 PM
Relax guys, its called going thru a "funk". We will be just fine. Does everyone expect to win every series?

I don't expect to win every series but losing 3 straight series to playoff caliber teams does not bode well for the Sox.

Aside from one bad inning from Vasquez, our pitching actually showed up for this series. Unfortunately our offense, which has carried the team so far, decided to take a vacation as of late.

INSox56
07-20-2006, 04:31 PM
Getting the lead-off man on, stealing bases, doing all the little things right, hitting at the right times and of course, dominant pitching.



That helps when ozuna isn't still recovering and rusty. Or IF Pods could steal a base, which I'm convinced, he barely can do anymore.

sox1970
07-20-2006, 04:32 PM
The crowd needs to step it up and wake up the offense. All 6 games should be playoff type atmospheres and loud as he!!.

Big crowds don't score runs and throw strikes. I'm pretty sure the players are getting used to big crowds. It's about execution, not Hooterville.

PaulDrake
07-20-2006, 04:32 PM
What about Jon?

I'll just say this: Last year was last year. I understand that. But that team would have won this game. Yes they would have. This year's team is superior in hitting alone. There's still plenty of time to get it together. Tomorrow would be a nice time to start.

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:33 PM
I'm saying overhaul as in dumping those two and bringing in another pitcher. Perhaps the word is a bit strong but standing pat will not work this year.

nasox
07-20-2006, 04:33 PM
They just don't have the magic of last year. Maybe it will be like the Yankees in 1997; one bad year before a run of greatness. Hope they can turn it around but with Jose as the only reliable starter...

What about Jon?

I'll just say this: Last year was last year. I understand that. But that team would have won this game.

ShoelessJoeS
07-20-2006, 04:34 PM
I normally try to stay as positive as possible, but Widger ****ing blows and has no business being here. Anybody know anything about our best minor league catcher?

On a good note...

Jose threw the ball relatively well, but gets the tough loss.

Jermaine continues to be the best player on this team.

How 'bout BA? 3 hits, and almost ties the game in the 9th...

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 04:34 PM
That helps when ozuna isn't still recovering and rusty. Or IF Pods could steal a base, which I'm convinced, he barely can do anymore.Pods has to get on base to be able to steal one though.

Rocky Soprano
07-20-2006, 04:35 PM
I'm saying overhaul as in dumping those two and bringing in another pitcher. Perhaps the word is a bit strong but standing pat will not work this year.

Yeah I'm sure Widger and Gload will net you a GREAT pitcher.

This team does not need an overhaul, they need to get out of this funk, thats it.

Yeah another arm in the bullpen would help, but thats about all we really need.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-20-2006, 04:35 PM
Amen on the Ostrich comment. .

We need a new (Ostrich) clip in our file........when is the last time we got a bunt base hit? Is it Ozuna's walk off bunt about 2 months ago? Let's just try and get back to basics on offense, please!

Jerko
07-20-2006, 04:38 PM
The Sox just played SIX games vs. the one team in front of them, and the team directly behind them in the wild card chase. Of those six games, they used their starters, ALL their starters, once. Funny, they won THAT game 7-1. I'm not saying that Anderson, Pods, and Iguchi are 100 times better than Mack, Cintron, and Ozuna, but it's just not the same team when it's not "the boys" out there. I know people need rest, and I'm not saying they would have gone 6-0, but having your entire team out there just one out of six times is abysmal. I'm going to half the next homestand, I hope I see the "real" lineup at least once. :cool:

ndu3t4
07-20-2006, 04:39 PM
I'm not as much worried about the offense as I was about the pitching; because hitting, to me, seems to come more easily to a player, while if a pitcher is in a funk, he's in it for a while ( see our starters the past month). Now that Jon and Jose have come out and worked very well against a great offensive team, things are looking better. Javy didn't pitch badly either. Hopefully Mark and Freddy can right the ship this weekend.

As for the entire team, I'm not too worried. We are a good 10/12 run from being back in the driver's seat. I also think that KW is too good of an executive and Ozzie and Coop are too good as coaches to let this keep going.

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:39 PM
I never suggested Gload and Widger for a pitcher. Maybe you heard of the Minor Leagues Rocky. We have prospects that could be traded for pitching.


Cut Gload and Widger.

BNLSox
07-20-2006, 04:40 PM
They just don't have the magic of last year. Maybe it will be like the Yankees in 1997; one bad year before a run of greatness. Hope they can turn it around but with Jose as the only reliable starter...

Fatigue + every team giving us their best game ever + Widger = our current struggles!

These are still magical players. Focus on pitching and defense and the rest will take care of itself. Oh and getting a back up catcher that is either good at hitting or at defense/calling a game.

MadetoOrta
07-20-2006, 04:42 PM
KW get to work. This is not good. I wonder if we'd have been better off getting swept by Boston at home heading into the All-Star break.

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:42 PM
Agreed that Widger is done. The pitchout missfire is the Magnum Opus of his crappiness. So long and farewell Chris. Take Gload with you.

maurice
07-20-2006, 04:42 PM
Thome and Konerko have combined for 4 hits in the last 4 games. They're both 2-15 over that stretch. It sucks, but everybody cools off from time to time. Big ball is inherently inconsistent.

The inexcusable thing is the team's complete and utter failure to advance runners without getting a hit. The 3rd inning today was a classic example. Uribe singles leading off, but Widger Ks. Then Anderson singles, making it 1st and 2nd with only 1 out, but Ozuna GiDP. Again in the 4th inning, they had the bases loaded with less than 2 outs but failed to score even one run. Again in the 5th inning, they had a runner on 2nd (Anderson) with no outs and failed to score him. Failure to execute small ball in those three innings cost them a very winnable game.

The Sox won the WS by playing small ball when big ball fails. Right now, they're doing neither.

chisoxmike
07-20-2006, 04:43 PM
Un****ing believeable... the pitching shows up for this series and aside from the Tuesday game the offense doesn't. Unreal. What a mind blow.

Law11
07-20-2006, 04:44 PM
Big crowds don't score runs and throw strikes. I'm pretty sure the players are getting used to big crowds. It's about execution, not Hooterville.

And if they play like this at home.. They're gonna hear it.

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 04:45 PM
Agreed that Widger is done. The pitchout missfire is the Magnum Opus of his crappiness. So long and farewell Chris. Take Gload with you. I would love to see a new backup catcher in a Sox uniform! Anyone but Widger.

Law11
07-20-2006, 04:46 PM
I would love to see a new backup catcher in a Sox uniform! Anyone but Widger.

Is sandy still around?

credefan24
07-20-2006, 04:47 PM
There is alot of baseball left. The Sox need to turn it around, and get back to the basics!

C'mon you sox, I know you can do it!!

Bill Naharodny
07-20-2006, 04:47 PM
Thome and Konerko have combined for 4 hits in the last 4 games. They're both 2-15 over that stretch. It sucks, but everybody cools off from time to time. Big ball is inherently inconsistent.

The inexcusable thing is the team's complete and utter failure to advance runners without getting a hit. The 3rd inning today was a classic example. Uribe singles leading off, but Widger Ks. Then Anderson singles, making it 1st and 2nd with only 1 out, but Ozuna GiDP. Again in the 4th inning, they had the bases loaded with less than 2 outs but failed to score even one run. Again in the 5th inning, they had a runner on 2nd (Anderson) with no outs and failed to score him. Failure to execute small ball in those three innings cost them a very winnable game.

The Sox won the WS by playing small ball when big ball fails. Right now, they're doing neither.

Great post. Those three innings encapsulate what some people have been in denial about all year.

Look, every team fails to execute at times. Every team goes through rough stretches with clutch hitting, or even hitting in the first place. But what endures is a MENTALITY. And the mentality this year seems to be "our offense is better than last year." And that means, all too often, it's reach back and swing hard.

I'd like to see the mentality of "We'll grind it out." Not because that's what we did last year, but because that makes you aggressive and puts the other team in a vise. I think that's who Kenny and Ozzie are. But they have a team that doesn't really reflect it -- not yet.

Patrick134
07-20-2006, 04:47 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

The sad thing is you'll be back when the sox get hot. Get lost.

gbergman
07-20-2006, 04:47 PM
wow this sucks. Contreras pitches his heart out and are O is no where to be found. Plus we need to not be on ESPN we have won 2 games this year on ESPN

It's Time
07-20-2006, 04:48 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

:D: http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h19/C6Jeff/troll1.jpg

nasox
07-20-2006, 04:48 PM
About Widger. AJ is on pace to catch 140 games this season. That is three more than his previous season high of 137 games played. I think playing Widger has to be done. Plus, Contreras didn't seem to mind. Yes, let's explore some alternatives. But, I really doubt that we'll find anything suitable.

INSox56
07-20-2006, 04:48 PM
Agreed that Widger is done. The pitchout missfire is the Magnum Opus of his crappiness. So long and farewell Chris. Take Gload with you.

I just LOVE all this talk of trading Gload. Shows me how much people actually pay attention. He's hitting 295 and made some damn fine plays at 1b. ...the ignorance astounds.

alohafri
07-20-2006, 04:48 PM
Widger and Gload have no business on the team. Widger could not throw out the catcher on a pitchout. He's as done as Cliff. So long and farewell.

Detroit looks just like us last year. The Sox need to shake things up.

Yeah, let's blame everything on Widger! He is a perfect goat...the guy who plays once a week. Give me a break. The guy is a backup catcher! Who do you expect to back up AJ? Thurman Munson? I'm more concerned with the starting pitching (Garland and Contreras are excused) and the mopes at the top of the line up going 0 for whatever over the past few days. Widger should be the least of our concerns!

chisoxmike
07-20-2006, 04:50 PM
Yeah, let's blame everything on Widger! He is a perfect goat...the guy who plays once a week. Give me a break. The guy is a backup catcher! Who do you expect to back up AJ? Thurman Munson? I'm more concerned with the starting pitching (Garland and Contreras are excused) and the mopes at the top of the line up going 0 for whatever over the past few days. Widger should be the least of our concerns!


Seriously. Finally someone with sense. People think that Widger was batting 1-9 today and yesterday. Get off it everybody. Oh yeah and Contreras was pitching like **** today becuase Widger was behind the plate. :rolleyes:

Cuck the Fubs
07-20-2006, 04:51 PM
While I don't care for the current run of games by our guys, I'm not going to be leaping off any ledges anytime soon either.

This is a good ballclub, Kenny will do something (major or minor) and I think we'll be there at the end.

Gotta tip your hat to the Tigers, they have been and continue to play good baseball.

Long way to go.........however if they roll into September still in the shape they are in right now, then I'll be worried.

spiffie
07-20-2006, 04:52 PM
About Widger. AJ is on pace to catch 140 games this season. That is three more than his previous season high of 137 games played. I think playing Widger has to be done. Plus, Contreras didn't seem to mind. Yes, let's explore some alternatives. But, I really doubt that we'll find anything suitable.
You're counting AJ's pinch hit appearances and things of that ilk though. Widger has over 20 starts already this year. AJ will start probably 110-120 games, 125 if it stays very close and Ozzie feels he has to have AJ in every game. But generally Widger starts once every 3-4 games.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 04:53 PM
Maurice makes an excellent point and the sad thing is Ozzie has at least three times this season publicly lamented about the lack of 'fundamentals' to the press. He even ordered some of the club to take additional bunting practice.

I don't have the answer, maybe if Ozzie feels the job isn't getting done he needs to start benching players, a la Eddie Stanky, for not executing when ordered.

Lip

Law11
07-20-2006, 04:54 PM
Lets just trade everybody and start the AAA team..

I said it last year after we won it. I dont care if we win it again I've witnessed the greatest thing ever...:gulp:

Speed up to today....
Son of a.... I need a drink....:gulp: :gulp:

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 04:54 PM
Chris Widger could not throw the catcher out on a PITCHOUT. AJ is on pace to play 140 games. Widger is not a real major league player. He cannot hit or field. With a real player hitting with the bags loaded the Sox may have won today.

The problem with Gload is that he cannot play the outfield. There are no backup outfielders on this team but three guys who play first.

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 04:57 PM
Yeah, let's blame everything on Widger! He is a perfect goat...the guy who plays once a week. Give me a break. The guy is a backup catcher! Who do you expect to back up AJ? Thurman Munson? I'm more concerned with the starting pitching (Garland and Contreras are excused) and the mopes at the top of the line up going 0 for whatever over the past few days. Widger should be the least of our concerns! I understand what you mean, but I just looked up some of Widgers #'s and he has not got a hit since June 15 and he is in a 0-22 slump. From the way he looked today I don't think he will get a hit until September 15.

Chips
07-20-2006, 05:00 PM
Chris Widger could not throw the catcher out on a PITCHOUT. AJ is on pace to play 140 games. Widger is not a real major league player. He cannot hit or field. With a real player hitting with the bags loaded the Sox may have won today.

The problem with Gload is that he cannot play the outfield. There are no backup outfielders on this team but three guys who play first.

It's all Widger's fault. He ****ing made us lose today

I can't say I like the guy, there has to be a reason he was playing softball in 2004, but we did not lose today because of Widger.

chisoxmike
07-20-2006, 05:00 PM
With a real player hitting with the bags loaded the Sox may have won today.



If you're going to rant about that bases loaded inning, you should also blame Uribe for not getting a hit in that inning, not just Widger. There were other batters at the plate that could've come through.

Cellview22
07-20-2006, 05:01 PM
Don't count out Oakland coming into Detroit and giving the Tigers some trouble. I honestly see the Tigers hitting a lull and losing some ground.. and by the time we see them again at the Cell on Aug 11, we'll be 2 1/2 back and looking to take the lead if we sweep em. Time for some optimism! :gulp:

ShoelessJoeS
07-20-2006, 05:02 PM
If you're going to rant about that bases loaded inning, you should also blame Uribe for not getting a hit in that inning, not just Widger.A sac fly would have been sufficient.

Patrick134
07-20-2006, 05:02 PM
A few days ago everyone was worried about the starting pitching. If the starters are as good as they were this series, the sox will be fine.

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 05:02 PM
It's all Widger's fault. He ****ing made us lose today

I can't say I like the guy, there has to be a reason he was playing softball in 2004, but we did not lose today because of Widger. Widger was playing softball in 2004?

Chisox1500
07-20-2006, 05:03 PM
I stand by my statement on both counts. We all knew the inning was over after Crede got that hit.

It will take luck to win this division now.

INSox56
07-20-2006, 05:04 PM
LOL you mean that infield popup wasn't deep enough? shucks

Baby Fisk
07-20-2006, 05:04 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/840501/pollyanna-poster3.jpg
"Now MERPER you stop that this instant. If we wanted to see what a little boy with poop in his pants looked like, we would have asked. What I see is the White Sox returning to their sweet home in Chicago and administering a sound thrashing to the Rangers and Twinkies before sellout crowds of adoring fans. It will be a wizzy jolly good time. After that, we shall steal MERPER's shoes and toss them into a tree, then make him walk home in stocking feet. Tee hee hee!"

zmz723
07-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Don't count out Oakland coming into Detroit and giving the Tigers some trouble. I honestly see the Tigers hitting a lull and losing some ground.. and by the time we see them again at the Cell on Aug 11, we'll be 2 1/2 back and looking to take the lead if we sweep em. Time for some optimism! :gulp:.

sadly, i think its time to worry about the yankees and twins before the tigers now

ShoelessJoeS
07-20-2006, 05:04 PM
A few days ago everyone was worried about the starting pitching. If the starters are as good as they were this series, the sox will be fine.Going into this series, I had no worries about Garland or Jose. The really test will be how Buehrle and Garcia bounce back after numerous poor starts.

PaulDrake
07-20-2006, 05:05 PM
Maurice makes an excellent point and the sad thing is Ozzie has at least three times this season publicly lamented about the lack of 'fundamentals' to the press. He even ordered some of the club to take additional bunting practice.

I don't have the answer, maybe if Ozzie feels the job isn't getting done he needs to start benching players, a la Eddie Stanky, for not executing when ordered.

Lip Both Maurice and Bill Nahorodny have hit the nail on the head IMO.

ShoelessJoeS
07-20-2006, 05:05 PM
I stand by my statement on both counts. We all knew the inning was over after Crede got that hit.

It will take luck to win this division now.*sighs while shaking head*

Not a good post.

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:06 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

MERPER, have you been sniffing glue again?

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2006, 05:06 PM
Chris Widger could not throw the catcher out on a PITCHOUT. AJ is on pace to play 140 games. Widger is not a real major league player. He cannot hit or field. With a real player hitting with the bags loaded the Sox may have won today.

The problem with Gload is that he cannot play the outfield. There are no backup outfielders on this team but three guys who play first.

So I guess we should dump Uribe, too? If you are going by that example, surely you think the White Sox should also be looking for a replacement for him.

It's amazing to me how many people think Widger lost this game single-handedly, when the meat of the order did NOTHING for the second straight game.

Chips
07-20-2006, 05:07 PM
.

sadly, i think its time to worry about the yankees and twins before the tigers now

What about the ****ing Rangers?

DaveIsHere
07-20-2006, 05:07 PM
As frustrating as this team has been of late, like some one else said it is July 20th and we are 5.5 games out, not 25 games out.

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:07 PM
C'mon guys, what do you expect...WIDGER WAS PLAYING!! par for the course. Horrible game, they should be ashamed, I haven't been this mad about a loss all year. 2 game swing

Contreras sucked today. He simply could not overcome the ****ty pitch-calling of Widger.

HotelWhiteSox
07-20-2006, 05:07 PM
I have to second guess Ozzie on this one, actually first guess, as I was yelling at the TV during the atbat. Why the hell was Widger not bunting Uribe over in the 3rd. Cost the Sox at least 1 run and now the game.

And Pablo has obviously sucked it up since getting hurt, he adds no more against a lefty since getting hurt than Pods did, and only hurts on defense. If you just want to rest Pods you might as well use Mackowiak, who is better suited at the corners than center

Patrick134
07-20-2006, 05:08 PM
So I guess we should dump Uribe, too? If you are going by that example, surely you think the White Sox should also be looking for a replacement for him.

It's amazing to me how many people think Widger lost this game single-handedly, when the meat of the order did NOTHING for the second straight game.

The meat of the order has carried the team, check the stats. It's not fun watching this mini slump, but give them their proper credit.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-20-2006, 05:10 PM
A few days ago everyone was worried about the starting pitching. If the starters are as good as they were this series, the sox will be fine.

I'm trying to take some positives out of this and I think that is one. Garland & Contreras looked good. Also, Anderson. You know the hitting is gonna turn around. I don't want to have my head in the sand, but I think a lot of us thought we would run thru this season like we ran thru the post-season last year.

spiffie
07-20-2006, 05:11 PM
It's all Widger's fault. He ****ing made us lose today

I can't say I like the guy, there has to be a reason he was playing softball in 2004, but we did not lose today because of Widger.
In a game like baseball rarely does one player "lose" the game. That's why you try to get the best possible collection of players so that any one of them is less likely to hinder the chances of winning.

Do you feel the best possible person we can reasonably get for backing up AJ is a guy who can't hit .200 and can't throw out the other team's catcher on a pitchout?

Fixing one problem does not mean overlooking or ignoring others. Lots of things went wrong the last six days. However the problem of a guy who can't perform at the major league level is one of the easier ones to fix, as opposed to others which are cyclical (Thome slump, Buehrle off his game) or are ingrained in a way that makes fixing them more difficult (Vazquez being Vazqeuz for instance). This is a problem that can and should be fixed ASAP and can be dealt with without a great deal of difficulty.

1917
07-20-2006, 05:11 PM
Contreras sucked today. He simply could not overcome the ****ty pitch-calling of Widger.

He's 0-2 in his last 2 starts, both started by Widger....it wasn't Jose pitching, it was our hitting, and Widgers 2K's didn't help out and neither did his fielding

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 05:11 PM
Another irony is that the Tigers winning run was set up by an old fashinoed clean, hard take out slide at second base. The 1990 and 2005 Sox proved that 'doin' the little things..' add up to big things.

It's unfortunate that this year's club has decided to forget that important lesson.

Lip

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2006, 05:12 PM
The meat of the order has carried the team, check the stats. It's not fun watching this mini slump, but give them their proper credit.

Where in my post did I criticize the effort they have given throughout the season? TWO GAMES, pal.

Reading is a skill.

GO blame Widger!

PaulDrake
07-20-2006, 05:12 PM
Some criticize Widger, and then get slammed for it. I must ask, is this a display of Major League catching? Widger's performance is comparable to the now departed Cliff Politte. The spare parts don't have to play like stars, but they do need to be at least serviceable.

Rikirk
07-20-2006, 05:12 PM
If theyre gonna slump, better for them to get it out of the way now and try to recover in the coming weeks, but why did it have to be against detroit.:mad:

Fix the pitching...then carry on from there.

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:13 PM
So I guess we should dump Uribe, too? If you are going by that example, surely you think the White Sox should also be looking for a replacement for him.

It's amazing to me how many people think Widger lost this game single-handedly, when the meat of the order did NOTHING for the second straight game.

A lot of people here don't understand that your best players have to be your best players in a big series. The top four hitters in our batting order the last two games went a combined 0-for-30 with two walks. Nice production, guys. Don't worry, though, people think that's Widger's fault too. The bad throw on the pitchout was the only thing Widger did wrong today, and that didn't hurt us.

You know what did hurt us? Uribe's pop up with the bases loaded and one out in the fourth. Ozuna hitting into a DP in the third. Ozuna failing to get BA over to third in the fifth. The inability of Thome and Konerko to get ANYTHING done. The inability of the Sox infield to turn a routine DP in the seventh. Those are the reasons we lost.

Go ahead, folks, delude yourselves into the belief that our backup catcher is the result of all the woes of this team. You're entertaining me with your nonsense. Incidentally, AJ went 0-for-10 in this series. You really think he would have made a difference today? Anyone?

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 05:13 PM
I have to second guess Ozzie on this one, actually first guess, as I was yelling at the TV during the atbat. Why the hell was Widger not bunting Uribe over in the 3rd. Cost the Sox at least 1 run and now the game. For real, I thought for sure he would be bunting. That to me almost means Ozzie had no faith in Juan and B.A. to drive him in.

mbwhitesox
07-20-2006, 05:13 PM
The Sox just played SIX games vs. the one team in front of them, and the team directly behind them in the wild card chase. Of those six games, they used their starters, ALL their starters, once. Funny, they won THAT game 7-1. I'm not saying that Anderson, Pods, and Iguchi are 100 times better than Mack, Cintron, and Ozuna, but it's just not the same team when it's not "the boys" out there.
That's a great point, which was also discussed in the gamethread prior to the game.

With all the days off the team has had in the past week, fatigue or "rest" can't really be considered a reason to not play guys. Especially in a series of this (relative) magnitude. The Tigers trotted out basically the same starters for every game of the series, even Rodriguez, who, despite catching last night, didn't look very tired hitting in the game tying run in the 6th.

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:13 PM
He's 0-2 in his last 2 starts, both started by Widger....it wasn't Jose pitching, it was our hitting, and Widgers 2K's didn't help out and neither did his fielding

Sorry, I don't talk to walls.

PaulDrake
07-20-2006, 05:18 PM
Go ahead, folks, delude yourselves into the belief that our backup catcher is the result of all the woes of this team. You're entertaining me with your nonsense. Incidentally, AJ went 0-for-10 in this series. You really think he would have made a difference today? Anyone? You made a number of good points in your post which I have greatly abbreviated. Of course the backup catcher is not the cause of our woes. A number of things are, and production or lack thereof from bench players is one of them.

Patrick134
07-20-2006, 05:19 PM
Another irony is that the Tigers winning run was set up by an old fashinoed clean, hard take out slide at second base. The 1990 and 2005 Sox proved that 'doin' the little things..' add up to big things.

It's unfortunate that this year's club has decided to forget that important lesson.

Lip

The sox have broken up many dp's the same way this year, and don't forget AJ-Barrett.

1917
07-20-2006, 05:20 PM
Sorry, I don't talk to walls.

Just my opinion, you don't got to be a jerk off about it....

MarySwiss
07-20-2006, 05:20 PM
Well, I must say I'm impressed! This thread, IMO, is not nearly as berserk as yesterday's thread was.

BTW, my recap is up and, oddly enough, it mirrors some of the thoughts posted here, i.e., the solid performance by Jose and the continued offensive improvement of Brian.

What it does NOT do is throw Widger under the bus. Please get a grip! As others have said, he is our backup catcher. And IMO, even if he makes a dead-on-balls (can I say that?) accurate throw, Ivan is still safe.

spiffie
07-20-2006, 05:20 PM
A lot of people here don't understand that your best players have to be your best players in a big series. The top four hitters in our batting order the last two games went a combined 0-for-30 with two walks. Nice production, guys. Don't worry, though, people think that's Widger's fault too. The bad throw on the pitchout was the only thing Widger did wrong today, and that didn't hurt us.

You know what did hurt us? Uribe's pop up with the bases loaded and one out in the fourth. Ozuna hitting into a DP in the third. Ozuna failing to get BA over to third in the fifth. The inability of Thome and Konerko to get ANYTHING done. The inability of the Sox infield to turn a routine DP in the seventh. Those are the reasons we lost.

Go ahead, folks, delude yourselves into the belief that our backup catcher is the result of all the woes of this team. You're entertaining me with your nonsense. Incidentally, AJ went 0-for-10 in this series. You really think he would have made a difference today? Anyone?
I assume with this logic you were against DFA'ing Cliff Politte as well? After all, he didn't cause us to lose all by himself either.

The other guys you have mentioned are good players who had a bad day/series. Chris Widger has spent the year proving that he was a 1-year wonder who is no longer able to give us production appropriate for a contending major league team. The former is something you lament and hope for improvement. The latter, just like with Cliff, is something you deal with as an organization.

downstairs
07-20-2006, 05:22 PM
That's a great point, which was also discussed in the gamethread prior to the game.

With all the days off the team has had in the past week, fatigue or "rest" can't really be considered a reason to not play guys. Especially in a series of this (relative) magnitude. The Tigers trotted out basically the same starters for every game of the series, even Rodriguez, who, despite catching last night, didn't look very tired hitting in the game tying run in the 6th.

This is the one thing I hated about Ozzie in '05, and I felt hurt us down the stretch. He's far too liberal with the "rest."

Rest is for November through February.

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:28 PM
I assume with this logic you were against DFA'ing Cliff Politte as well? After all, he didn't cause us to lose all by himself either.

The other guys you have mentioned are good players who had a bad day/series. Chris Widger has spent the year proving that he was a 1-year wonder who is no longer able to give us production appropriate for a contending major league team. The former is something you lament and hope for improvement. The latter, just like with Cliff, is something you deal with as an organization.

I defended Cliff for a long, long time. I was sad to see him go.

EDIT: Let me expound on this a bit. The Sox were right to let Politte go because they were better options available in the minor leagues. Do we have a catcher in the minors who is better than Widger? I don't think so. I'm more comfortable sticking with Chris than calling up Stewart, who has no major-league experience, in the heat of a pennant race.

DeadMoney
07-20-2006, 05:30 PM
This is the one thing I hated about Ozzie in '05, and I felt hurt us down the stretch. He's far too liberal with the "rest."

Rest is for November through February.

I don't know. My heart agrees with this, but my brain says that 11-1 in the playoffs last year had a lot to do with being more fresh then the opponent. BUT, the reason I would agree is:
Last year, a big lead allowed Ozzie to maximize their rest, while this year (in a race) it gets frustrating when the rest comes for the starters. I think right now though, the rest is okay. If we get to crunch time though and he continues to rest the starters, it's a completely valid point. Crunch time comes in mid-August or the beginning of September depending on the position in the standings.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 05:31 PM
Patrick:

My comment wasn't literally to mean about just 'breaking up a double play...' it's an overall inability to execute all fundamentals and that has been going on since April.

Remember when they blew a 6 nothing lead vs. the Royals the very first week because they kicked the ball around?

That's what I mean. (and I think you realized that)

Lip

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:32 PM
Just my opinion, you don't got to be a jerk off about it....

Yes, I do. You want to know why? Because people keep making me repeat myself. If you are counting on Chris Widger for offensive production, you've got a long wait. He's never been a good hitter his whole career. He is not a good hitter now. It is not even his job to hit. His job is to play defense, and he's done that serviceably well.

If you want to piss and moan about the offense, complain about our top four hitters going 0-for-30 the last two days. Unlike Widger, I DO expect offensive production from those guys.

The anti-Widger bandwagon is full of people who think Chris can't call a game. Contreras didn't have good stuff today, but he still kept us in the game. Jose deserves most of the credit for that, of course, but I'm sure Widger helped him along.

Foulke You
07-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Sox home vs away record is worth looking at this year too. For whatever reason, we've been very ordinary on the road this year while our competition in Detroit has been getting the job done on the road. Home cooking has been a huge part of the Sox success this year. However, if we're going to win this division, we're going to need to recapture that '05 magic on the road.

White Sox HOME 33W-14L vs AWAY 25W-22L
Tigers HOME 31W-16L vs AWAY 33W-15L

BeviBall!
07-20-2006, 05:38 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:oMhEJ1Wd0mpgGM:www.rockingham.k12.va. us/sound_sorting/initial_consonants/y/images/yawn.jpg

russ99
07-20-2006, 05:39 PM
This team has no fire right now. Sad.

Maybe Kenny needs to make a deal to shake things up. I'm picking on Uribe solely for his throw to the plate yesterday and his popup with the bases loaded today: Tejada may be available.

If I were Ozzie, I'd call for a mandatory bunting practice tomorrow.

1917
07-20-2006, 05:40 PM
Yes, I do. You want to know why? Because people keep making me repeat myself. If you are counting on Chris Widger for offensive production, you've got a long wait. He's never been a good hitter his whole career. He is not a good hitter now. It is not even his job to hit. His job is to play defense, and he's done that serviceably well.

If you want to piss and moan about the offense, complain about our top four hitters going 0-for-30 the last two days. Unlike Widger, I DO expect offensive production from those guys.

The anti-Widger bandwagon is full of people who think Chris can't call a game. Contreras didn't have good stuff today, but he still kept us in the game. Jose deserves most of the credit for that, of course, but I'm sure Widger helped him along.

You got your opinion, I got mine, over and done with. Agree to disagree. I just don't appreciate being called a wall for expressing my opinion

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:41 PM
This team has no fire right now. Sad.

Maybe Kenny needs to make a deal to shake things up. I'm picking on Uribe solely for his throw to the plate yesterday and his popup with the bases loaded today: Tejada may be available.

If I were Ozzie, I'd call for a mandatory bunting practice tomorrow.

The last thing we need to do is trade defense for more offense.

I'm with you on the bunting thing, though.

Man Soo Lee
07-20-2006, 05:42 PM
...Ozuna failing to get BA over to third in the fifth.
Unless I missed something in the box scores, the Sox last successful sacrifice bunt was by Vazquez on July 1 against the Cubs. The last by a position player was by Podsednik on June 27 in Pittsburgh.

Palehose13
07-20-2006, 05:42 PM
Hey, I got an idea...The Tigers are actually a pretty darn good team. The Sox got beat today and yesterday. But hey, we are still up 3-6 in head to head this year. Unfortunately, the Sox have not been firing on all cylinders since the break. I have confidence in the talent of this team. For the most part, the pitching staff is the same(personal) as last year and the offense has been improved. IMO, at worst this team will win the wild card, which, wouldn't be the end of the world.

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 05:43 PM
White Sox HOME 33W-14L vs AWAY 25W-22L
Tigers HOME 31W-16L vs AWAY 33W-15L 33-15 on the road is un****ing real.

TheOldRoman
07-20-2006, 05:44 PM
Yesterday the offense was pathetic, scoring only two runs and looking foolish - but it was all Vazquez' fault. He should have given up less than two runs. He was horrible.

Today Contreras gave up two runs. Who the ****'s fault was it today? You aren't going to win many games when you score 3 runs over 2 games. Like I said yesterday, Rogers was licking his chops looking at the crap we put out on that field yesterday. He knew that these Sox hitters were going to swing from the shoetops every pitch, not be patient, and not situationaly hit whatsoever. The way the Sox offense is playing right now, the Rangers are probably thrilled to be out of Toronto and on the way to Chicago.

The offense lost us these two games. We still can't move runners over or get them in, and we are still swinging for the fences every at bat. This is disgusting. Ozzie apparently is not getting through to these guys. We are a better ****ing team that Detroit, and we just gave away two games to them. It doesn't matter who the better team is, the Sox are trying their damndest to play themselves out of the race. This was a shameful effort the last two days. The Sox CAN come back and win the division, but unless they improve their play a lot, they won't. Unless they step it up big time, they will finish in third.

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:45 PM
Hey, I got an idea...The Tigers are actually a pretty darn good team. The Sox got beat today and yesterday. But hey, we are still up 3-6 in head to head this year. Unfortunately, the Sox have not been firing on all cylinders since the break. I have confidence in the talent of this team. For the most part, the pitching staff is the same(personal) as last year and the offense has been improved. IMO, at worst this team will win the wild card, which, wouldn't be the end of the world.

I agree. I hate this thread because, as usual, we are scapegoating individual players. As per WSI tradition, we are scapegoating the 23rd and 24th men on the roster. Now that we don't have Politte to kick around anymore, it's Widger's fault.

How about this: the Sox just haven't played well as a team the last nine games, but they will come out of it. Soon.

NSSoxFan
07-20-2006, 05:49 PM
I agree. I hate this thread because, as usual, we are scapegoating individual players. As per WSI tradition, we are scapegoating the 23rd and 24th men on the roster. Now that we don't have Politte to kick around anymore, it's Widger's fault.

How about this: the Sox just haven't played well as a team the last nine games, but they will come out of it. Soon.

Shh! Sanity is not allowed here.

Palehose13
07-20-2006, 05:52 PM
Shh! Sanity is not allowed here.

I'm trying to help bring it back for my own sanity.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 05:53 PM
Palehose:

I agree to an extent. There's absolutely nothing wrong with winning the wild card, it guarantees you a slot in the post-season.

But frankly as of today there are no guarantees.

It's amazing that the Sox can play winning baseball for 12 weeks and yet in just one week all that is now put in jeopardy.

That shows how tough the American League is.

Bottom line it's going to take a consistent effort just to grab the wild card in a brutal league.

Lip

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:53 PM
Shh! Sanity is not allowed here.

LOL. This is a change. Usually, you and I are at odds on this board. Good to be on your side for once. :)

SOXSINCE'70
07-20-2006, 05:53 PM
Thank you Joe Kennedy. Or do you ghost write for jay mariotti?

Maybe he works for the Detroit sCrUB-Une.At least that's what
that pathetic excuse for journalism's sports section has looked
like since Tuesday.:rolleyes: :angry:

Chisox003
07-20-2006, 05:54 PM
I agree. I hate this thread because, as usual, we are scapegoating individual players. As per WSI tradition, we are scapegoating the 23rd and 24th men on the roster. Now that we don't have Politte to kick around anymore, it's Widger's fault.

How about this: the Sox just haven't played well as a team the last nine games, but they will come out of it. Soon.
Jinx ... sort of (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1249151&postcount=228)

:wink: :whistle:

JB98
07-20-2006, 05:55 PM
Uh-oh. Santo=dorf is now viewing the thread. Here comes more anti-Widger crap. I know better than to argue with people who have a Cubs reference in their WSI handle.

<JB ducks, runs for cover, logs off>

Let's beat Texas tomorrow, boys. Good night all.

SOXSINCE'70
07-20-2006, 05:55 PM
This team has no fire right now.

Good pitching will make any team look like that.:(:

jenn2080
07-20-2006, 06:03 PM
Methinks I am going to go for a LOOONNNGGG run right now.


I walked home...needed to walk some stress off

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 06:11 PM
Mary:

I can't speak for anyone else but more and more I'm getting frustrated over this club. They remind me of the 1984 team that had all that talent, screwed off and fell apart in the 2nd half.

I had surgery a few weeks ago (somewhat unexpected) and am just now feeling better, earlier in the week and this past weekend I was starting to get sicker because of what those clowns were doing (or NOT doing...)

It was then I decided to say screw it and screw them. If they want to piss away a golden opportunity to make another major dent in the Chicago fan base that's their perogative.

I will say this, I enjoy good, solid, fundamental baseball like the Sox played last season. In that specific regard the 2006 team isn't even in the same stadium with them.

Lip

WSox8404
07-20-2006, 06:16 PM
I walked home...needed to walk some stress off


I only managed two miles in this humidity and wind. I am sooo spent right now and sweating beyond belief. But at least I am not as mad as I was earlier!

santo=dorf
07-20-2006, 06:17 PM
Contreras sucked today. He simply could not overcome the ****ty pitch-calling of Widger.
How many more teal related posts are you going to make about Widger?

You already ran away from the facts that the guy I want to replace him with:
A) has a better arm (How did Widger look today?)
B) has a better bat (yes, he sucks, but he still better than Widger)
C) calls a better game (Congrats to Widger on his catching his first quality start since June 15th!)
D) Crushes LHP tremendously much better than Widger (How would that .300+ BA and .900+ OPS against LHP look against Kenny Rogers with the bases loaded?)
E) Wouldn't be that costly to get.

I've been calling for his replacement for a month now, and I am gald some people are starting to wake up.

Just like Politte, he had a surprising 2005, and he is a great clubhouse guy. For the best of this team, he needs to take the same route as Politte this year.

For the record: Chris Widger has not had a base hit since he went 1-5 in a 12-4 blowout of Cincy a month ago
Chris Widger's last extra base hit was on MEMORIAL DAY when he was a replacement in a 11-0 slaughter of the Indians.

JB98 falsely made a remark about Blanco only having one good week (it was actually a month,) let's take a look at Widger month by month.

APRIL: .188/.286/.188 (All 3 hits were singles and came at the end of the month)
MAY: .360/.407/.600 (All 4, FOUR, of his extra base hits came in this month. His second of the season, and last MULTIHIT game was against the Twins)
JUNE: .087/.192/.087 (Terrible. It can't get any worse than that can it?)
JULY: .000/.077/.000

Put all the spin you want on it, but that's not acceptable at the major league level. Before anyone gives me the "he's just a backup catcher" line, please verify with me that you would take Widger over:
Josh Bard
Greg Zaun
Jose Molina
Mike Redmond
Kelly Shoppach
Vance Wilson
Javier Valentin
Henry Blanco
Josh Paul
Sandy Alomar
Doug Mirabelli

Just off the top of my head.

WSox8404
07-20-2006, 06:19 PM
How many more teal related posts are you going to make about Widger?

You already ran away from the facts that the guy I want to replace him with:
A) has a better arm (How did Widger look today?)
B) has a better bat (yes, he sucks, but he still better than Widger)
C) calls a better game (Congrats to Widger on his catching his first quality start since June 15th!)
D) Crushes LHP tremendously much better than Widger (How would that .300+ BA and .900+ OPS against LHP look against Kenny Rogers with the bases loaded?)
E) Wouldn't be that costly to get.

I've been calling for his replacement for a month now, and I am gald some people are starting to wake up.

Just like Politte, he had a surprising 2005, and he is a great clubhouse guy. For the best of this team, he needs to take the same route as Politte this year.

For the record: Chris Widger has not had a base hit since he went 1-5 in a 12-4 blowout of Cincy a month ago
Chris Widger's last extra base hit was on MEMORIAL DAY when he was a replacement in a 11-0 slaughter of the Indians.

JB98 falsely made a remark about Blanco only having one good week (it was actually a month,) let's take a look at Widger month by month.

APRIL: .188/.286/.188 (All 3 hits were singles and came at the end of the month)
MAY: .360/.407/.600 (All 4, FOUR, of his extra base hits came in this month. His second of the season, and last MULTIHIT game was against the Twins)
JUNE: .087/.192/.087 (Terrible. It can't get any worse than that can it?)
JULY: .000/.077/.000

Put all the spin you want on it, but that's not acceptable at the major league level. Before anyone gives me the "he's just a backup catcher" line, please verify with me that you would take Widger over:
Josh Bard
Greg Zaun
Jose Molina
Mike Redmond
Kelly Shoppach
Vance Wilson
Javier Valentin
Henry Blanco
Josh Paul
Sandy Alomar
Doug Mirabelli

Just off the top of my head.


I'll take anyone of them over Widger anyday. There is a reason he was playing softball a few years ago. That is where he belongs.

QCIASOXFAN
07-20-2006, 06:21 PM
[quote=santo=dorf]Chris Widger's last extra base hit was on MEMORIAL DAY when he was a replacement in a 11-0 slaughter of the Indians.

quote]:o:

santo=dorf
07-20-2006, 06:23 PM
Uh-oh. Santo=dorf is now viewing the thread. Here comes more anti-Widger crap. I know better than to argue with people who have a Cubs reference in their WSI handle.

<JB ducks, runs for cover, logs off>

Let's beat Texas tomorrow, boys. Good night all.

Run! Hide!! JB98!!!! THE FACTS ARE COMING!!!

Henry Blanco had one hot streak while Barrett was suspended. All the damage he's done for the entire season came in one week's time. S=D EDIT: JB98 apprentley thinks "one week" = the entire month of June. Other than one stinking week where he hit over .500, he has absolutely SUCKED this year. Let me repeat: SUCKED. His batting average was below .100 in late May.

You want to trade for that? *****. If the Cubs release Blanco and he costs us nothing, maybe I can see it. But I'm not giving up a prospect for that guy. I really don't care what numbers you post. You will not change my mind.

Other posters should take note. There's just no reason in trying to have a discussion with this guy.

maurice
07-20-2006, 06:28 PM
Josh Paul? The same Josh Paul who was cut from the Sox for general suckatude, then cut from a number of crappy teams (including the Cubs), and then cut from the Angels because he was too stupid to tag AJ in the playoffs?!?

Widger sucks, but we need Josh Paul like we need another round of torn labrums (labra? labrae? labri?).

SoxEd
07-20-2006, 06:30 PM
let's take a look at Widger month by month.

APRIL: .188/.286/.188 (All 3 hits were singles and came at the end of the month)
MAY: .360/.407/.600 (All 4, FOUR, of his extra base hits came in this month. His second of the season, and last MULTIHIT game was against the Twins)
JUNE: .087/.192/.087 (Terrible. It can't get any worse than that can it?)
JULY: .000/.077/.000

I'm not taking sides here - because, I will happily acknowledge, I just don't know anything about Blanco, other than who he currently plays for - so could you please put up a similar breakdown of Blanco's performance over the same timeframe?

Cheers,
Ed.

santo=dorf
07-20-2006, 06:41 PM
The only reason why I threw Josh Paul's name up against the wall was because I heard him mentioned as a possibility as on ESPN. For me it's a toss up between the two only because Paul has a lower CERA, and he doesn't catch anyone that good besides Kazmir. I'm not advocating the Sox to go out the way for Paul, because KW would be better off exploring other ways to improve the team (RHP set up man please.)

I'm not taking sides here - because, I will happily acknowledge, I just don't know anything about Blanco, other than who he currently plays for - so could you please put up a similar breakdown of Blanco's performance over the same timeframe?

Cheers,
Ed.
Sure

April: .095/.240/.095 (both hits were singles)
May: .045/.083/.045 (the one hit was a double)
June AKA "the one week": .365/.382/.673 (Played in 15 games, 12 of them he had a hit in, 5 of them were multi-hit)
July: .333/.429/1.000

As you can see, Blanco started off like the way Widger is playing right now. Henry has certainly turned the corner and it would be a tremendous pick up if is used in an Ozzie Guillen manner.
Against LHP: .300/.349/.525
This year Blanco has allowed 14 SB and thrown out 10.
Widger has allowed 17 SB, and thrown out 3.

JUribe1989
07-20-2006, 06:42 PM
The only reason why I threw Josh Paul's name up against the wall was because I heard him mentioned as a possibility as on ESPN. For me it's a toss up between the two only because Paul has a lower CERA, and he doesn't catch anyone that good besides Kazmir. I'm not advocating the Sox to go out the way for Paul, because KW would be better off exploring other ways to improve the team (RHP set up man please.)


Sure

April: .095/.240/.095 (both hits were singles)
May: .045/.083/.045 (the one hit was a double)
June AKA "the one week": .365/.382/.673 (Played in 15 games, 12 of them he had a hit in, 5 of them were multi-hit)
July: .333/.429/1.000

As you can see, Blanco started off like the way Widger is playing right now. Henry has certainly turned the corner and it would be a tremendous pick up if is used in an Ozzie Guillen manner.
Against LHP: .300/.349/.525
This year Blanco has allowed 14 SB and thrown out 10.
Widger has allowed 17 SB, and thrown out 3.

Can't we just call up Chris Stewart. At least he has a better arm than Widger. And it wouldn't take much to hit better than him.

soxfanatlanta
07-20-2006, 06:48 PM
I have to give credit to Detriot's pitching: they were lights out the last two days. I'm still pissed as can be about our poor showing this roadtrip, but at least I got some great runs in after the game. My frustration, anger, and loathing just melted away with the sweat.

The shin splints didn't seem so bad, either.

Let's get home and regroup. Dog days are coming, and there is plenty of work to do.

TomParrish79
07-20-2006, 06:51 PM
I just pray the broken-up double play doesn't mentally screw our team like the Torrie Hunter play a couple years ago.

There were 2 potential moments like that this series...the other one being the grand slam in yesterday's game.



Lets have a good homestand and get a few of those games back.

rowand33
07-20-2006, 06:59 PM
Contreras sucked today. He simply could not overcome the ****ty pitch-calling of Widger.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/ogifs/Ostrich_bw.GIF

Give me a break.

The argument against Widger is not one-dimensional.

Answer me this: is there anything that Widger brings to this team that another backup catcher can't?

That is the dilema. Nobody is saying the loss was widger's fault. Everybody is saying that he flat out sucks. He just sucks, and it would be easy to replace him with smoebody better.

It's an easy place to upgrade where we could use one; that's the whole widger argument. Now please, will you quit being such a dick to everyone just because we think that a bad player is bad?

PeoriaSoxFan
07-20-2006, 07:16 PM
The Sox just played SIX games vs. the one team in front of them, and the team directly behind them in the wild card chase. Of those six games, they used their starters, ALL their starters, once. Funny, they won THAT game 7-1. I'm not saying that Anderson, Pods, and Iguchi are 100 times better than Mack, Cintron, and Ozuna, but it's just not the same team when it's not "the boys" out there. I know people need rest, and I'm not saying they would have gone 6-0, but having your entire team out there just one out of six times is abysmal. I'm going to half the next homestand, I hope I see the "real" lineup at least once. :cool:

I totally agree with this quote. Play our regulars in crucial games.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-20-2006, 07:17 PM
This has turned into a trash Widger thread -- and for the record I would like to see some one acquired as a backup catcher -- but Ozzie was to blame for some of Widger's failures.

In the third, with Uribe on and none out, he should have had Widger bunting. He let him hit away and he struck out. Anderson then singled. Had Widger bunted, he would have moved the runner along and done something positive, instead of extending his hitless streak.

More importantly, Widger never should have been batting eighth. He should have been last. The eighth spot came up with two runners on and two out in the fourth and Widger flied out (at least he hit the ball).

Their failure to move runners along today was costly. The team better get its act together on the smart ball stuff. And pronto.

goon
07-20-2006, 07:20 PM
I totally agree with this quote. Play our regulars in crucial games.

while i agree that the:

pods
iguchi
thome
konerko
dye
pierzynski
crede
uribe
anderson

lineup should be used more often, does anyone have a clue what our record is when ozzie uses this lineup?

alohafri
07-20-2006, 07:41 PM
Might I digress for a second here? I wanted to smash Zumaya with a steel chair after his celebration of Crede's strikeout today. It's not just today, it is all of this crap that goes on in sports today.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

alohafri
07-20-2006, 07:42 PM
while i agree that the:

pods
iguchi
thome
konerko
dye
pierzynski
crede
uribe
anderson

lineup should be used more often, does anyone have a clue what our record is when ozzie uses this lineup?

No, I wish I did though. I'd love to find out how many losses we have with Mack in centerfield.

DickAllen72
07-20-2006, 07:43 PM
In the third, with Uribe on and none out, he should have had Widger bunting. He let him hit away and he struck out. Anderson then singled. Had Widger bunted, he would have moved the runner along and done something positive, instead of extending his hitless streak.

.....

Their failure to move runners along today was costly. The team better get its act together on the smart ball stuff. And pronto.

Very good points.

sox1970
07-20-2006, 08:21 PM
No, I wish I did though. I'd love to find out how many losses we have with Mack in centerfield.

Mackowiak has started in center 36 times. The Sox are 22-14 (.611).

The last 7 games he started in center, the Sox are 2-5.

digdagdug23
07-20-2006, 08:22 PM
1-5 road trip.... 5.5 back... possibly only 1.5 up in the wild card after tonight... as i said after the yankees series.. THIS TEAM WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN THE PLAYOFFS....

big series coming up Monday-Wednesday at the Cell for 3rd place!!!

I had to work all day, missed the game because I can't get AM radio in the office, internet was down, but heard the score on the radio on the way home. While this was a little concerning to me that we lost 2 of 3, I was at least a little encouraged that the score was 2-1, not humiliating. I said to myself on the ride "Self, go home and see the pants pissers on the boards, that will make you smile". And so I did, and now I am smiling, and almost cackling. Thanks for not dissappointing.

:?:

Grzegorz
07-20-2006, 08:24 PM
It's easy to focus on guys like Widger and Gload; their sitting ducks. How about asking Ozzie tough questions as to why Pablo was playing ahead of Pods? Why wasn't Uribe bunting? Why is Pablo playing if he can't do the little things we count on him to do with regularity?

Is Freddie working on his delivery to home plate with runners aboard? Why when the team goes into a hitting funk doesn't the team try to be more creative (hit and run, straight steals)?

There are many questions to be asked and none of them have to do with getting someone to replace BA, dumping Gload, or whether Widger should shoulder the blame for the teams lack of success.

This will be a dogfight to make the playoffs. Look at that September schedule, it's brutal.

So, saying it's ok to slump know is misleading; when you lose and the teams behind you win (Minny at a .790+ clip since early June) it's easy to lose ground very quickly.

No need to panic, but there is every need to improve in all facets of the game starting tomorrow.

markopat
07-20-2006, 08:39 PM
Another irony is that the Tigers winning run was set up by an old fashinoed clean, hard take out slide at second base. The 1990 and 2005 Sox proved that 'doin' the little things..' add up to big things.

It's unfortunate that this year's club has decided to forget that important lesson.

Lip

:worship: U HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD LIP!

CommanderPudge72
07-20-2006, 08:40 PM
Yeah, let's blame everything on Widger! He is a perfect goat...the guy who plays once a week. Give me a break. The guy is a backup catcher! Who do you expect to back up AJ? Thurman Munson?

I, personally, think it is the sign of a good and knowledgable fan to ask why Ozzie is running the line-up in "automatic" mode....

We just did not play our best line-ups against the team we are chasing....and I can't figure out why...

1. Play AJ...I know it is the automatic subsititution during a day game after a night, but we are playing the Tigers and Widger IS struggling. Rest AJ during 2 of the TX games.

2. Play BA in the park that has one of the biggest center fields...nobody can deny he has better range than Mack and right now BA is hot...batting over .400 recently and a 9 game hitting streak...Why not play him??? He is going to have to face tough pitchers some time.

3. No Pods...Granted Pods is struggling, but so is Ozuna since the injury....and I think we have seen enough of Ozuna in left to know that he is not the most comfortable out there.

I just don't understand why we don't put out the best line-up out there when we are playing a team we want to catch or stay-up with....easier to make up the games when we play head to head than to have to depend on the Royals coming through for us to make up a game. Control our destiny.

This automatic line-up may have made sense in the past, but not during this series.

CHISOXFAN13
07-20-2006, 08:41 PM
Might I digress for a second here? I wanted to smash Zumaya with a steel chair after his celebration of Crede's strikeout today. It's not just today, it is all of this crap that goes on in sports today.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

You aren't the only one. I think Crede wanted a piece of his sorry ass bs celebration, too. Was it really neccessary to look at the White Sox dugout when celebrating?

I think not.

markopat
07-20-2006, 08:41 PM
even if he makes a dead-on-balls (can I say that?) accurate throw, Ivan is still safe.

I think that is an industry term MarySwiss! :bandance:

Fake Chet Lemon
07-20-2006, 08:50 PM
Yeah, let's blame everything on Widger! He is a perfect goat...the guy who plays once a week. Give me a break. The guy is a backup catcher! Who do you expect to back up AJ? Thurman Munson? I'm more concerned with the starting pitching (Garland and Contreras are excused) and the mopes at the top of the line up going 0 for whatever over the past few days. Widger should be the least of our concerns!

We can put our heads in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that Widger is useful. We'd be wrong too. And God forbid AJ went down, we'd be DOA for the season.

soxinem1
07-20-2006, 08:58 PM
Strange how just a few weeks ago we were not out of it until the last out, now we cannot even get a sac fly.

My hats off to the Tigers, they showed up to play all three games for the most part.

Something tells me Monroe's GS may be a turning point of the season...... Thames take out slide shows me something too...

And believe me, I do not like being a dark cloud. But look at the schedules for the Sox and Tigers for the next 3-4 weeks. It does not get any easier.

Time to suit up or shut up boys, August is just around the corner......

PaulDrake
07-20-2006, 08:58 PM
We can put our heads in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that Widger is useful. We'd be wrong too. And God forbid AJ went down, we'd be DOA for the season. The guy is flat out awful, a strong bench is important and saying as much should not be a mortal sin around here.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 09:02 PM
Ozzie in his post game comments said:

"I don't say it was embarrassing, but it was disappointing," manager Ozzie Guillen said in admitting the Sox were outplayed in this series. "We have a better club than this. We should be playing better, and all the guys should know about it."

They'd know it more Ozzie, I think, if you decided to ram it down their throats in the clubhouse.

Lip

CaptainBallz
07-20-2006, 09:08 PM
You aren't the only one. I think Crede wanted a piece of his sorry ass bs celebration, too. Was it really neccessary to look at the White Sox dugout when celebrating?

I think not.

They're a team from Detroit. Do you expect class?

MarySwiss
07-20-2006, 09:20 PM
Might I digress for a second here? I wanted to smash Zumaya with a steel chair after his celebration of Crede's strikeout today. It's not just today, it is all of this crap that goes on in sports today.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

I missed that, but I basically ALWAYS feel that way about Rodriguez. As I mentioned in my TBGR, that "damn!-am-I-a-fierce-competitor" act he does whenever it's likely the camera is on him is beyond tired. And whenever I hear him referred to as "Pudge," I just want to hurl!

But c'mon, we're talking Detroit players here. What do we expect?

goon
07-20-2006, 09:27 PM
Ozzie in his post game comments said:

"I don't say it was embarrassing, but it was disappointing," manager Ozzie Guillen said in admitting the Sox were outplayed in this series. "We have a better club than this. We should be playing better, and all the guys should know about it."

They'd know it more Ozzie, I think, if you decided to ram it down their throats in the clubhouse.

Lip


i hope he ripped into them. it would have been nice to have been a fly on the wall in that locker room after that POS game. pray to god buehrle shows up tomorrow, or else... i don't want to get into it.

wassagstdu
07-20-2006, 09:28 PM
This all or nothing offense sucks, bring back small ball. I'd rather have 9 Aaron Rowands batting 1-9 than 9 Jim Thome's batting 1-9. Power is just too hot and cold.
Nothing against Thome, but why does the rest of the lineup have to imitate him? This is a big, slow, power hitting team that is highly vulnerable to good pitching. A completely different team from 2005. Where is the speed, where is the defense, where is the pitching? I thought we learned in 2005 that those things are more important than leading the majors in HR.

OK, now the Sox are not the team to beat any more. They will be referred to as the "sinking White Sox." I don't think they will accept that. The Tigers clearly wanted this series more than the Sox. I think that will change.

.

TheOldRoman
07-20-2006, 09:30 PM
Ozzie in his post game comments said:

"I don't say it was embarrassing, but it was disappointing," manager Ozzie Guillen said in admitting the Sox were outplayed in this series. "We have a better club than this. We should be playing better, and all the guys should know about it."

They'd know it more Ozzie, I think, if you decided to ram it down their throats in the clubhouse.

Lip
I agree, and I assure you that Ozzie wasn't as diplomatic in the clubhouse as he was with the press.

Ozzie knows how to read a team. He knows when to joke around and laugh after a tough loss, and he knows when a team needs to be shouted at. If I was the manager, I would probably bust every single bat in the room over lockers while bitching the players out after an embarassing loss like this. However, it would kinda lose it's effect after the fifth time.:cool:

I don't know if Ozzie shouted or tried to get the guys to relax after the game, but I do know that he knows the right buttons to push.

wassagstdu
07-20-2006, 09:38 PM
while i agree that the:

pods
iguchi
thome
konerko
dye
pierzynski
crede
uribe
anderson

lineup should be used more often, does anyone have a clue what our record is when ozzie uses this lineup?

2-0? Just a guess.

.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2006, 09:46 PM
Wassa:

Your guess is as good as mine. In spring training they looked flat... kind of like 'we can turn it on anytime we want,' and Ozzie played right along with it. (Of course it didn't help that he was playing double A crap as late as the final week instead of getting his guys ready but that's another story...)

It's carried over into the season.

Pods can run, Iguchi can run, Dye can run, Ozuna can run, I think Anderson can run...why aren't they?

Where's the executing of sacrifices, the hit and run, the run and hit, the putting pressure on opponents-- forcing them into errors, throw aways and extra outs?

This team (and manager) is sitting back waiting for something to happen instead of making it happen. We saw that from 2000-2004 and the results most times were less then satisfying.

Lip

Grzegorz
07-20-2006, 09:57 PM
You aren't the only one. I think Crede wanted a piece of his sorry ass bs celebration, too. Was it really neccessary to look at the White Sox dugout when celebrating?

The White Sox will see the Tigers again; file it away but remember it and use it as motivation.

DickAllen72
07-20-2006, 10:01 PM
Pods can run, Iguchi can run, Dye can run, Ozuna can run, I think Anderson can run...why aren't they?


Dye is slow. Iguchi has average speed at best, and currently he has a bum ankle. With Thome, Konerko, Pierzynski and Crede along with them, the Sox have a very slow lineup.

Where's the executing of sacrifices, the hit and run, the run and hit, the putting pressure on opponents-- forcing them into errors, throw aways and extra outs?

This team (and manager) is sitting back waiting for something to happen instead of making it happen. We saw that from 2000-2004 and the results most times were less then satisfying.

Lip

Yes.

3rdgensoxfan
07-20-2006, 10:31 PM
I'm not the pessimistic type but I find it disturbing when people repeatedly say, "Go out tomorrow and win"... "We'll get them next time." From my standpoint, the team needs to play with much greater consistency. Let's not forget that last year's team held a lead in many, many games (wins and losses). That is the hallmark of a good team.

ClaudelSleptHere
07-20-2006, 10:54 PM
I'm not blaming Widger for the loss, but on the other hand, if we can't do better than him when it comes to a back-up catcher, we're not trying. How bad can Chris Stewart be?

jongarlandlover
07-20-2006, 11:32 PM
well...i saw the first half or so of the game then i left to see pirates of the caribbean 2. was that a better usage of time than watching the game? :tongue:

BadBobbyJenks
07-21-2006, 12:03 AM
Memo to everyone: Detroit is for real.
I have had the same feeling a lot of us have had, that they are going to fall apart, but today's game changed my mind. Breaking up that double play to give them an extra at bat and then they capitalize. Any chance they are given they come through, much like we did a year ago. Both there runs today I believe were of the 2 out clutch hit variety. They are not going to tank...

Im not saying we are not going to catch them either, just saying I now think they are for real. They do everything they need to to win ball games again much like the 05 sox. Its going to be a fun race to the end, but I still believe we will be there and until someone passes for the wildcard lead Im not toooooooo concerned.

Nellie_Fox
07-21-2006, 01:31 AM
Unfortunately, the Sox have not been firing on all cylinders since the break. The Sox weren't firing on all cylinders going into the break.

CYGarland20
07-21-2006, 02:02 AM
The Sox weren't firing on all cylinders going into the break.Actually the Sox havent really been firing on all cylinders all season. It always seems like a couple of our hitters or pitchers are slumping. Now if everyone can put it together for a few weeks, then look out!

kitekrazy
07-21-2006, 02:14 AM
Wassa:

Your guess is as good as mine. In spring training they looked flat... kind of like 'we can turn it on anytime we want,' and Ozzie played right along with it. (Of course it didn't help that he was playing double A crap as late as the final week instead of getting his guys ready but that's another story...)

It's carried over into the season.

Pods can run, Iguchi can run, Dye can run, Ozuna can run, I think Anderson can run...why aren't they?

Where's the executing of sacrifices, the hit and run, the run and hit, the putting pressure on opponents-- forcing them into errors, throw aways and extra outs?

This team (and manager) is sitting back waiting for something to happen instead of making it happen. We saw that from 2000-2004 and the results most times were less then satisfying.

Lip

Station to station baseball is back. All we nned now is Manuel to complete the picture.

kitekrazy
07-21-2006, 02:20 AM
We may have to realize the Tigers are the best team in baseball as of right now. They are like last year's Sox. It may stay that way.

slobes
07-21-2006, 02:22 AM
When we finally get the starting pitching our offense sucks. We better win some against Texas.

palehozenychicty
07-21-2006, 04:17 AM
I like going wire-to-wire much better.

Tell me about it. :(:

sox230
07-21-2006, 05:43 AM
Ozzie got outmanaged. Simple as that. Leyland put his everday lineup out on the field, and that was more than enough to outmanage Ozzie.

Grzegorz
07-21-2006, 05:48 AM
Who here expected a wire-to-wire run? I know I didn't...

I like the fact that the White Sox have to fight for the division; each game should be held at a premium. These tough games, if they get through them and make the playoffs, will pay off in spades in the playoffs.

As far as this year goes I expected a little more team speed, or a better use of the team speed that they have. More hitting and running and straight stealing.

Of course I never expected the pitching to go south; nor did I expect to see the team fail at executing the fundamentals consistently. Unless the fundamentals improve and the pitching staff "right the ship" they'll be on the outside the playoffs looking in.

This is where we find out what kind of manager Ozzie is.

PaulDrake
07-21-2006, 08:33 AM
This is where we find out what kind of manager Ozzie is. One of the most unique personalities in the history of baseball. He singlehandedly changed the approach the team took by the sheer force of that personality. Game day managing? He's not even close to the best the Sox have had in my lifetime. Right now Leyland is doing the motivating and the proper moving of the chess pieces during the game.

bluestar
07-21-2006, 09:50 AM
We may have to realize the Tigers are the best team in baseball as of right now. They are like last year's Sox. It may stay that way.

I would have agreed before this series with the Sox, but I was not that impressed. They got a couple of very fortunate hits against a team that is struggling with itself right now.

I think the Sox are going to have plenty of opportunity to come back, but they are going to have to get their heads out of their asses to do it.

1917
07-21-2006, 09:56 AM
No, I wish I did though. I'd love to find out how many losses we have with Mack in centerfield.
or Ozuna in left...he's a butcher out there...not that Pods is a Gold Glover, but Ozuna looks lost half the time.....I think ozuna should be used to back up Crede (as should Mack since that was his position in Pit) or even DH to give Thome an break from time to time...

Jerko
07-21-2006, 11:45 AM
I'm bored at work so I did some number crunching. Actually, the Sox are 22-14 when Mack STARTS in center, and they are 3 and 2 when he starts in right. So, with Mack starting in the OF, they are 25-16. I also did some research about the record when the "starting" lineup is used since I bitched about that a few times yesterday. By starting lineup, I mean Pods, Gooch, Thome, PK, Dye, AJ, Joe, Juan, BA. For NL parks I counted the starting lineup as Thome sitting, but I think that only affected one game anyway. So, what should be the Sox starting lineup has lost TWO games all year. Their record with that lineup is 17-2. Without it, it's 41-34. 7 games over.
So out of 94 games played, the "everyday" lineup has been used ONLY 19 TIMES!!!!!!!! Not too hard to figure out why the races are tighter than I think they should be.

samram
07-21-2006, 11:54 AM
I'm bored at work so I did some number crunching. Actually, the Sox are 22-14 when Mack STARTS in center, and they are 3 and 2 when he starts in right. So, with Mack starting in the OF, they are 25-16. I also did some research about the record when the "starting" lineup is used since I bitched about that a few times yesterday. By starting lineup, I mean Pods, Gooch, Thome, PK, Dye, AJ, Joe, Juan, BA. For NL parks I counted the starting lineup as Thome sitting, but I think that only affected one game anyway. So, what should be the Sox starting lineup has lost TWO games all year. Their record with that lineup is 17-2. Without it, it's 41-34. 7 games over.
So out of 94 games played, the "everyday" lineup has been used ONLY 19 TIMES!!!!!!!! Not too hard to figure out why the races are tighter than I think they should be.

Nice work. That's very interesting. I wonder how many other teams have used their opening day lineup in only 1/5 of the games. I guess it could be adjusted for Mack, since he was supposedly the starter for a couple of weeks, but the number of games with the everyday lineup would still be small. Hopefully, this pays off starting in August when the everyday guys can be used more- and maybe the Tigers' guys start wearing down.

sox1970
07-21-2006, 11:57 AM
Nice work. That's very interesting. I wonder how many other teams have used their opening day lineup in only 1/5 of the games. I guess it could be adjusted for Mack, since he was supposedly the starter for a couple of weeks, but the number of games with the everyday lineup would still be small. Hopefully, this pays off starting in August when the everyday guys can be used more- and maybe the Tigers' guys start wearing down.

I really don't think the lineup is the problem. It's starting pitching.

samram
07-21-2006, 11:59 AM
I really don't think the lineup is the problem. It's starting pitching.

I agree. I'm just saying it was interesting that the everyday lineup has been used so infrequently and I'm hoping it pays off down the stretch.

kraut83
07-21-2006, 12:01 PM
I really don't think the lineup is the problem. It's starting pitching.

It's definitely been the problem the past few games. Very un-clutch in clutch situations.