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View Full Version : How Long is a Slump a Slump?


spiffie
07-20-2006, 11:14 AM
I ask this because a lot of folks have weighed in one way or the other about Javier Vazquez. The folks who have been more upbeat about Javy are saying basically "he will turn it around, don't judge him because of a bad couple of starts." And of course the anti-Javy folks are pretty much calling him the bastard child of Arnie Munoz and Scott Ruffcorn.

So I guess the question I have is when does the line get drawn, does it differ by player, and if so, how do you judge? With Anderson we were told "wait, he's always hit, he'll get better" and it seems that this was absolutely correct. But then we all have our memories of those players for whom it never did get better.

A few numbers we have all seen before but that I think are useful for the discussion:

Vazquez ERA/WHIP:
2006: 5.20/1.35
April 2006: 3.67/0.93
May 2006: 3.99/1.23
June 2006: 7.50/1.77
July 2006: 6.16/1.53
All starts except KC: 6.09/1.54
First 6 starts: 2.88/0.93
Next 13 starts: 6.47/1.57
2004-2006: 4.77/1.28
2001-2003: 3.52/1.15
1999-2000: 5.56/1.44

I see two major rough patches in Javy's career. One when he was a young rookie pitcher, and a second one which matches when he has pitched the majority of his innings in the AL. Not sure if that means anything or not. I also see that he had a very solid beginning to the season so he obviously is not bereft of any pitching ability as I know some people here seem to think.

AuroraSoxFan
07-20-2006, 11:21 AM
Well you definitely did your homework. not sure if there is a correct answer or what it would be. But Javy has had more than enough chances to make something happen. Last night, our 1st 4 hitters were 0-15 or something. The game wasn't all his fault. But he did fail to keep us in it as he has on many occasions. I'm sure KW has some kinda plan flying under the radar as always. If our Sox were in the "rebuilding" phase, fine keep him and see what he can do. But at this point with the race we're in, IMO it is time to shop him.

downstairs
07-20-2006, 11:55 AM
I only "saw" the game via Sportline.com... no audio/video...

But am I wrong in saying he had a 2 hitter going for most of the game? He had one bad inning, and really it came down to one hit that lost it.

I didn't see enough of the game... but my guess is last night is NOT his fault. We didn't hit. We SHOULD be able to score more than 5.

Secondly, shouldn't Ozzie have taken him out once he loaded the bases?

Jjav829
07-20-2006, 12:03 PM
Well, let's see, since he has left the obscurity of pitching in Montreal behind, people have been saying that he will turn it around. He left Montreal in 2003, so the "slump" has been around 3 years. The only good thing is that if we sell now, we probably still have enough time left where some team will give up something for him while thinking, "Hey, we can turn this guy around!"

KMKsuburbannoise
07-20-2006, 12:09 PM
i think it might actually be that damned curve. get rid of it and he will do much better.

Ol' No. 2
07-20-2006, 12:10 PM
Well, let's see, since he has left the obscurity of pitching in Montreal behind, people have been saying that he will turn it around. He left Montreal in 2003, so the "slump" has been around 3 years. The only good thing is that if we sell now, we probably still have enough time left where some team will give up something for him while thinking, "Hey, we can turn this guy around!"Turning Javy Vazquez around is easy. Just tell him if he ever throws that rolling curve ball again he'll be selling hot dogs the rest of the season.

Jaffar
07-20-2006, 12:11 PM
Well, let's see, since he has left the obscurity of pitching in Montreal behind, people have been saying that he will turn it around. He left Montreal in 2003, so the "slump" has been around 3 years. The only good thing is that if we sell now, we probably still have enough time left where some team will give up something for him while thinking, "Hey, we can turn this guy around!"

100% agreed. Maybe he needs to go back to the weak NL.

Flight #24
07-20-2006, 12:11 PM
Well, let's see, since he has left the obscurity of pitching in Montreal behind, people have been saying that he will turn it around. He left Montreal in 2003, so the "slump" has been around 3 years. The only good thing is that if we sell now, we probably still have enough time left where some team will give up something for him while thinking, "Hey, we can turn this guy around!"
Right now, to me he seems eerily like pre-05 Garland. Dominates at times, but consistently gives up the big inning/hit. I give him the rest of the year with Coop, unless you can get something pretty good for him - which I doubt given his performance YTD.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-20-2006, 12:14 PM
He just seems to crap his pants when he gets men on base. Otherwise he has good stuff. In a perfect world, he'd give up a leadoff HR rather than a leadoff double and he'd be better off. Not sure if Ozzie has the patience to work with players who are weak mentally though. Vasquez may just not be a good match for this organization.

oeo
07-20-2006, 02:21 PM
Turning Javy Vazquez around is easy. Just tell him if he ever throws that rolling curve ball again he'll be selling hot dogs the rest of the season.

Exactly. He needs to ditch that curveball until he can throw it effectively.

The guy can be effective without it. I don't think there are "bigger" issues, and he can be fixed.

CRAW
07-20-2006, 02:46 PM
I'm not giving up on him quite yet either. He's fifth on the strikeout list since 2000, along w/ the Big Unit, Schilling, Clemens, and Pedro - that's some good company!

Come on Javy! We know you can do it! :smile: