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patbooyah
07-19-2006, 08:46 PM
that sucked.

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 08:47 PM
that sucked.


No. Javy sucked. Fixed it for ya.

HartmanSox
07-19-2006, 08:47 PM
Wow, we got 2 runs off two solo shots.

I'm getting that strange sinking 2000 feeling......

Patrick134
07-19-2006, 08:47 PM
The thing that sucks is that Monroe is a bad hitter, and Vaz found his bat.

JB98
07-19-2006, 08:47 PM
Henry Blanco would have called for a fastball on the 2-2 pitch to Monroe.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 08:47 PM
Mackowiak's not even servicable in CF. If he gets to that ball, the whole inning changes. Vazquez made 2 bad pitches.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 08:47 PM
Vazquez BLOWS:angry: :angry: :angry:

and NO it wasnt just one inning it has been multiple innings in multiple games. This isnt some rare thing for him.

goon
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
i can't wait until the detroit fans infest this thread.

CaptainBallz
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
Way to do EXACTLY what you always do Javier...

If only we could get the same consistency w/ the rest of the pitching staff...:angry:

Fix this tomorrow and I'm happy...

SiderSouth
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
that sucked.

I just want to say ---- the mother ----ing Monroe.

HebrewHammer
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
Why Vazquez even bothers with that stupid curveball, I'll never know.

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
This team continues to crap its pants. Its been brutal to watch. This team lives completely on the home run. Its 2000 all over again.

NSSoxFan
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
No. Javy sucked. Fixed it for ya.

Javy had his patented meltdown, what else is new? He did pitch well for five innings.

Let's go out and win tomorrow.

Bobbo35
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
Ya, that game was all on Javy. One pitch!! Hard one to deal with tonight.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
When you throw slider after slider in the same AB, you're going to hang one.

kwolf68
07-19-2006, 08:48 PM
Only Javy could go from nearly unhittable to a 5-run inning. Just so typical.

Whatever...

Garland set the table for us to really make our mark and Javy couldn't follow up.

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 08:49 PM
I haven't looked this up, but I have the impression that the 6th inning is Vasquez's personal dark cloud, this season -- he most often implodes then.

Maybe Ozzie could pitch him for five and then bring in Tracey or someone else for the next 3-4 innings, a job-sharing arrangement?

oeo
07-19-2006, 08:49 PM
Tough loss, but oh well. The Tigers definately didn't show they were the better team...this was a game that should have been won by the Sox.

Like I said in the gamethread...if this is the team that ends up winning the AL Central, then the Sox really ****ed up because the Tigers are NOT as good as their record indicates; and I've been saying it all year.

Their ace beat our #5, nothing to cry about there, go out and get them tomorrow.

Oh, and Craig Monroe deserves a ball right to his head after his little showboat around the bases...*******.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 08:49 PM
A little more offense would have been nice too, as well as, catching the short fly to shallow CF.

rowand33
07-19-2006, 08:49 PM
LOL @ the title.

seriously, Vazquez ****ing sucks.

Are the Phillies still interested in sending us Flash Gordon for this bum?

And a lot of people are going to be like "one bad inning, give him a break..."

I'm sorry, but you don't get taht excuse when you have one bad inning everytime you start.

Either fix him or get rid of him. I think we're all sick of him.

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 08:49 PM
i can't wait until the detroit fans infest this thread.

"Um I'm not here to troll or anything. I just wanna say, uh, good, uh, game. And yeah I am happy we won."

MagicNumber22
07-19-2006, 08:49 PM
For the third time this season--Anderson gets to that ball.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
Oh, and Craig Monroe deserves a ball right to his head after his little showboat around the bases...*******.
It looked like AJ had a few words with him when he crossed the plate.

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
This is something to cry and bitch about. The Sox continue to play like **** and give games away.

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
No. Javy sucked. Fixed it for ya.
You're right, he should have given up 0 or 1 runs. I mean, this is major league baseball, nobody scores more than two runs. If you can't make two runs hold up, you suck.


:rolleyes:

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
LOL @ the title.

seriously, Vazquez ****ing sucks.

Are the Phillies still interested in sending us Flash Gordon for this bum?

And a lot of people are going to be like "one bad inning, give him a break..."

I'm sorry, but you don't get taht excuse when you have one bad inning everytime you start.

Either fix him or get rid of him. I think we're all sick of him.

It's either him or the guy whose arm is looks like it's about to fall off.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
Come on all you McCarthy Hater / Vasquez lovers. Dazzle us with your BS, about McCarthy doesn't even deserve the THE OPPORTUNITY to prove he might be one of our 5 best starters. Tell us how McCarthy is young and how the veteran pitchers deserve all the starts because they make so much money I guess. There are young pitchers all over the league having success, but McCarthy doesn't derserve any chance to prove himself. Please go ahead, I need the entertainment.

MCCARTHY IS ONE OF OUR BEST 5 STARTERS.

Epark84
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
Tough loss, but oh well. The Tigers definately didn't show they were the better team...this was a game that should have been won by the Sox.

Like I said in the gamethread...if this is the team that ends up winning the AL Central, then the Sox really ****ed up because the Tigers are NOT as good as their record indicates; and I've been saying it all year.

Their ace beat our #5, nothing to cry about there, go out and get them tomorrow.

Oh, and Craig Monroe deserves a ball right to his head after his little showboat around the bases...*******.

verlander is better than bonderman

RadioheadRocks
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
Vazquez BLOWS:angry: :angry: :angry:

and NO it wasnt just one inning it has been multiple innings in multiple games. This isnt some rare thing for him.

Exactly, like I said in the game thread we've ALL seen this movie before this year, and I'm getting tired of it. Cooper needs to light a fire under him or something, this meltdown **** is getting OLD.

That said, I think most of us predicted this would be a tough game with Bonderman starting, and at least Contreras is pitching tomorrow, let's get our ducks in a row and take the series.

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 08:50 PM
Oh, and Craig Monroe deserves a ball right to his head after his little showboat around the bases...*******.

Did you see him bump into AJ at home plate when he was high-fiving? Hilarious. :tongue: AJ didn't move.

ilsox7
07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
A little more offense would have been nice too, as well as, catching the short fly to shallow CF.

That's what pisses me off the most about this game. Let's face it, you're gonna get beat by good pitching some nights. And your #5 starter is going to give up 5 runs on some (most) nights. But your CF needs to catch a routine pop-up every night.

Patrick134
07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
For the third time this season--Anderson gets to that ball.

Oh yeah he catches everything, like that double friday night in New York.

esbrechtel
07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
Mackowiak's not even servicable in CF. If he gets to that ball, the whole inning changes. Vazquez made 2 bad pitches.

AMEN!!!!! too many people place all the blame on vazquez he seriously made 2 bad pitches maggs' hit was lucky to find a hole and that fly to center should have been caught...uribe should have went to 2nd...our 1-6 hitters were like 2 for 23...it is not just javy's fault...no worries we will come get um tomorrow

Brian26
07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
Only Javy could go from nearly unhittable to a 5-run inning. Just so typical.


Easily, easily the 6th or 7th time he's done that this season.

BeviBall!
07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
Note to AJ... stop calling for the off speed stuff when he's got all other pitches working.

The game was lost when Pudge got on... he lost all confidence and he yelled at himself on the mound. Emotions get to him again.

Still in fantastic postition to win the series tomorrow. Time to come to the rescue Jose.

SiderSouth
07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
For the third time this season--Anderson gets to that ball.

Should be more like the millionth. Macko is not a CF. BA should be playing there every day. I don't give a damn about his .200 batting avg, I could care less about that, it's his defense that won some games for us. If he'd been there, it might be only 2-2 instead of a 5-2 loss. :whiner:

bluestar
07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
Their second best pitcher (with Verlander being their best) pitched very well and beat our #5 guy. Just don't dwell on this one loss, come out tomorrow, and take the series.

And Ozzie, please do not start Widger tomorrow. Thanks. Good night.

Epark84
07-19-2006, 08:52 PM
For the third time this season--Anderson gets to that ball.


he also goes 0/4 or 1/4 with a few embarrassing ABs..i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team

Harry Potter
07-19-2006, 08:52 PM
Great, can't wait for the Ozuna-Widger duo in tomorrows lineup vs. "The Professor" Kenny Rogers

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 08:52 PM
verlander is better than bonderman

No. Verlander might be the hard throwing, eye candy, ESPN flavor of the month because of his fastball. He's still not better than Bonderman.

MrX
07-19-2006, 08:52 PM
If that was Boston or someone else they would have scored at least 10 that inning of Vazquez with the way he was hanging that breaking ball. Absolutely ridiculous for him to continue to throw it.

Someone tell Pods anytime he wants to show up he's more then welcome

Mackowiak with another **** up in CF.

At least his win shares are still higher than BA

Fake Chet Lemon
07-19-2006, 08:52 PM
Welcome to your 2001, 2002, 2003 & 2004 White Sox! The HR or nothing offense........it's baaaaaaa'ack. RIP small small.

We need to trade for Michael Barrett. Then everytime one of our high priced starters throws up yet another crooked number, they get punched in the face upon their return to the dugout. Note the lack of teal used.

Brian26
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
Geez, they just showed a replay. That ball bounced about four feet in front of Mackowiak. I think he could have caught it, but he backed off because he thought Uribe had it.

MUsoxfan
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
If any team is willing to take Vazquez, we'll have to eat a good chunk of that chump's cash.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
LOL @ the title.

seriously, Vazquez ****ing sucks.

Are the Phillies still interested in sending us Flash Gordon for this bum?

And a lot of people are going to be like "one bad inning, give him a break..."

I'm sorry, but you don't get taht excuse when you have one bad inning everytime you start.

Either fix him or get rid of him. I think we're all sick of him.


That was the last post in the gameday thread to my Vazquez ****ing sucks. I can see one inning...One inning id be like ya know ok it happens to everyone, but this guy has done it game after game after game after game.

HebrewHammer
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
AMEN!!!!! too many people place all the blame on vazquez he seriously made 2 bad pitches maggs' hit was lucky to find a hole and that fly to center should have been caught...uribe should have went to 2nd...our 1-6 hitters were like 2 for 23...it is not just javy's fault...no worries we will come get um tomorrow

Has the ball that Monroe hit landed yet? No? It's still on Javy. Gutless performance tonight.

goon
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
You're right, he should have given up 0 or 1 runs. I mean, this is major league baseball, nobody scores more than two runs. If you can't make two runs hold up, you suck.


:rolleyes:

i think if javy had the proper defense behind him, that inning may have been preventable. i don't like to criticize the coaching staff or ozzie, but for the love of god, play ****ing anderson in centerfield.


...and pods in left.

oeo
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
A little more offense would have been nice too, as well as, catching the short fly to shallow CF.

That's why, and I hope Ozzie is listening, you start your starting centerfielder. I'm SICK of seeing Mackowiak out there, and once I saw the lineup, I had a feeling that his defense was going to be a huge part in the game, once again.

Brian would make that catch, and then Uribe gets the tailor-made double play ball to end the inning. Instead...Mackowiak can't play centerfield, yet he's always out there in a big game like this one.

There are only two moves I want Kenny to make at the deadline. Another righty in the pen, and a backup centerfielder. A real centerfielder, a guy that can actually play the position when Ozzie gives Brian a day off. No more Mackowiak in centerfield, his defense, IMO, was the reason they lost the two games against the Tigers.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
Why doesn't anybody criticize AJ for calling for 5 out of 6 sliders?

Epark84
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
Should be more like the millionth. Macko is not a CF. BA should be playing there every day. I don't give a damn about his .200 batting avg, I could care less about that, it's his defense that won some games for us. If he'd been there, it might be only 2-2 instead of a 5-2 loss. :whiner:

mac didnt hang slider after slider to the tigers. uribe or cintron could have made a play too

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
Oh yeah he catches everything, like that double friday night in New York.

And Mack would have caught that?

Anderson catches balls that Mack can't. Anderson doesn't catch every single ball hit, but the ones he misses aren't ones that Mack would have gotten within a mile of.

The double was scored a hit, not an error, and accurately so.

BainesHOF
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
As I said during the break, I think Vazquez is mentally weak, and that was the case again today. We should have won this game. He should have won this game.

Indeed, Mackowiak is not serviceable in center field, at least not for a team trying to overtake a team with the best record in baseball or which finds itself fighting for the wild card in the best league in baseball. Anderson has to play everyday with our present roster. Of course, Anderson also has to keep his head in the game at all times in center field, but that's another story for a different day.

kwolf68
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
Easily, easily the 6th or 7th time he's done that this season.

ONLY 6th?

I predicted this trash to my wife. That is what is so frustrating...we had a chance to really test the Tigers confidence tonight...to get things back.

To me it looked like one team (Detroit) taking something (supremacy) from another team (Chicago) tonight...after only one year.

Vazquez stinks. His 9 wins are a damn joke.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 08:53 PM
If any team is willing to take Vazquez, we'll have to eat a good chunk of that chump's cash.

whatever chomp away get him OUT! this is ****. His last 6 or so games have been ****ing aweful

Brian26
07-19-2006, 08:54 PM
he also goes 0/4 or 1/4 with a few embarrassing ABs..i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team

Seen any games lately?

soxfan1965
07-19-2006, 08:54 PM
I haven't looked this up, but I have the impression that the 6th inning is Vasquez's personal dark cloud, this season -- he most often implodes then.

Maybe Ozzie could pitch him for five and then bring in Tracey or someone else for the next 3-4 innings, a job-sharing arrangement?



You would think (2nd guessing of course) Ozzie would have taken him out after 4 straight hits --maybe he tires and hangs balls by then. So maybe Ozzie will give the quick LaRussa-like hook at first evidence of a blowout inning. No margin of error against these better teams. Man, the Sox could have gone for the kill with this series.

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 08:54 PM
he also goes 0/4 or 1/4 with a few embarrassing ABs..i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team
:rolleyes:
Because Rob's infield single was game changing. It really paid off to start him. Oh wait, he almost homered in the 8th.

ilsox7
07-19-2006, 08:54 PM
Why doesn't anybody criticize AJ for calling for 5 out of 6 sliders?

Gamethread has plenty of questioning as to why AJ or Coop keeps calling it.

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 08:54 PM
he also goes 0/4 or 1/4 with a few embarrassing ABs..i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team

Would you go away already. Who gives a **** if Anderson was in there and went 0-4 today but MADE THAT CATCH. We might have won 2-1. Oh wait I forgot Mack went 4-4 today. Go sleep with Mack on your own time.

BeviBall!
07-19-2006, 08:55 PM
Geez, they just showed a replay. That ball bounced about four feet in front of Mackowiak. I think he could have caught it, but he backed off because he thought Uribe had it.

Even with all that, a good throw forces out Ivan at third. That throw was as good as his jump. :rolleyes:

Patrick134
07-19-2006, 08:55 PM
And Mack would have caught that?

Anderson catches balls that Mack can't. Anderson doesn't catch every single ball hit, but the ones he misses aren't ones that Mack would have gotten within a mile of.

The double was scored a hit, not an error, and accurately so.

I'm just sick of the "BA would have had that" threads. Heck if BA sat out every game everyone here would award him a platinum glove.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 08:55 PM
How is Vazquez gutless when he's not the one CALLING THE DAMNED PITCHES????

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 08:55 PM
whatever chomp away get him OUT! this is ****. His last 6 or so games have been ****ing aweful

Tell us how you really feel today....lol. I agree though. He does suck.

Bobbo35
07-19-2006, 08:55 PM
I am watching the postgame show and they are showing all the hits that the tiggers were off of his hanging slider. Vasquez gets pissed too, WELL MORON DONT THROW THAT PITCH!!!!

oeo
07-19-2006, 08:55 PM
verlander is better than bonderman

I'd be willing to make a bet that Bonderman is the best pitcher on that staff for the rest of the year. Verlander is going to run out of gas...and we've already beat him twice this year.

Epark84
07-19-2006, 08:55 PM
That's why, and I hope Ozzie is listening, you start your starting centerfielder. I'm SICK of seeing Mackowiak out there, and once I saw the lineup, I had a feeling that his defense was going to be a huge part in the game, once again.

Brian would make that catch, and then Uribe gets the tailor-made double play ball to end the inning. Instead...Mackowiak can't play centerfield, yet he's always out there in a big game like this one.

There are only two moves I want Kenny to make at the deadline. Another righty in the pen, and a backup centerfielder. A real centerfielder, a guy that can actually play the position when Ozzie gives Brian a day off. No more Mackowiak in centerfield, his defense, IMO, was the reason they lost the two games against the Tigers.

I dont get it. No mac isnt a gold glover. How many games have been lost because brian anderson hasnt gotten a bunt down or even hit as well as a pitcher. And he plays pretty good in CF and doesnt have an error. But he has misjudged balls and i know i have seen him airmail the cut off man more than a few times. Its not like they sat out willie mays. My God.

HebrewHammer
07-19-2006, 08:56 PM
How is Vazquez gutless when he's not the one CALLING THE DAMNED PITCHES????

He's the one throwing them.

BeviBall!
07-19-2006, 08:56 PM
There are only two moves I want Kenny to make at the deadline. Another righty in the pen, and a backup centerfielder. A real centerfielder, a guy that can actually play the position when Ozzie gives Brian a day off. No more Mackowiak in centerfield, his defense, IMO, was the reason they lost the two games against the Tigers.

Speak on it. I've been saying this all month.

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 08:56 PM
It keeps getting later in the season and the pitching still looks like crap. Javy crapped himself when the going got tough once again. This staff looks like ****.

Sorry that the hitters can't bale them out everynight, but that's playoff ball. A championship team wins todays game.

Why is Javy throwing that guy a breaking ball?

oeo
07-19-2006, 08:56 PM
I am watching the postgame show and they are showing all the hits that the tiggers were off of his hanging slider. Vasquez gets pissed too, WELL MORON DONT THROW THAT PITCH!!!!

He needs to throw his slider, it's nasty. He shouldn't be throwing his curveball, that's what ****s everything up.

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 08:56 PM
.i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team
Oh, you mean people like Ozzie Guillen and Kenny Williams? Yeah, it's great, isn't it! :D:

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 08:56 PM
Has the ball that Monroe hit landed yet? No? It's still on Javy. Gutless performance tonight BY THE OFFENSE.
Fixed it.

Grzegorz
07-19-2006, 08:56 PM
Mackowiak's not even servicable in CF. If he gets to that ball, the whole inning changes.
TaylorStSox,

I heard the play on the radio and I couldn't tell by the inflection of Farmio's voice that Mac should have caught the ball. I immediately asked myself whether Anderson makes that play.

If you saw it, do you think Anderson makes that play?

BeviBall!
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
Why doesn't anybody criticize AJ for calling for 5 out of 6 sliders?

I'm your huckleberry -- check my first post. Vazquez never shook him off. AJ called those pitches knowing full well he was hanging everything.

MrX
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
mac didnt hang slider after slider to the tigers. uribe or cintron could have made a play too
Did Cintron even have a ball hit to him tonight?

And I think Uribe's name should be in teal

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by Epark84
he also goes 0/4 or 1/4 with a few embarrassing ABs..i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team


Seen any games lately?

Apparently the have not seen any games. Anderson is a good center field and will be awesome in time. His bat is picking up and has had quite a few hits since his suspension. Clearly you are not watching enough games to notice this

RadioheadRocks
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
Why doesn't anybody criticize AJ for calling for 5 out of 6 sliders?

Because White Castle has the taste some people can't live without. :D:

Sorry, trying to keep a sense of humor going after that misbegotten fiasco.

kwolf68
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
How is Vazquez gutless when he's not the one CALLING THE DAMNED PITCHES????

Oh yea....AJ is just so horrible...I forgot how crappy he was last year.....


IN FREAKING OCTOBER.

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
I dont get it. No mac isnt a gold glover. How many games have been lost because brian anderson hasnt gotten a bunt down or even hit as well as a pitcher. And he plays pretty good in CF and doesnt have an error. But he has misjudged balls and i know i have seen him airmail the cut off man more than a few times. Its not like they sat out willie mays. My God.

What?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!??!! What games are you watching? He doesn't have any ****ing errors because he doesn't get to any ****ing balls!!!!

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
He's the one throwing them.

Yep, he's the one who's hanging the curve ...

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 08:58 PM
He's the one throwing them.


He's gutless for throwing the pitches AJ calls for? ***...

The whole "gutless" thing is a ****ing joke.

0o0o0
07-19-2006, 08:58 PM
Tough loss, but oh well. The Tigers definately didn't show they were the better team...this was a game that should have been won by the Sox.

:?: Should have been won by the Sox? What is that even supposed to mean? Every game should be won.

I thought Bonderman looked pretty damn good. I don't know what you were watching.

Soxfanspcu11
07-19-2006, 08:58 PM
Hang on a second, I have always wanted to use this icon........

:cuss:

***?!?! Has anyone ever used this?? Supposedly it means "cuss" or something. Anyway, umm yeah, that game was kick in the nards, but anyway, nothing can be done, oh well.

We'll get the rubber game tommorow, check out my prediction in the game thread. Is it really a prediction when you KNOW it will happen??

oeo
07-19-2006, 08:58 PM
It keeps getting later in the season and the pitching still looks like crap. Javy crapped himself when the going got tough once again. This staff looks like ****.

Sorry that the hitters can't bale them out everynight, but that's playoff ball. A championship team wins todays game.

Why is Javy throwing that guy a breaking ball?

Ugh...it's people like you that want me to log out of this website and never come back.

Watch EVERY game and then I will take your input seriously, because they haven't been terrible all year. And Javy throws ONE huge mistake and the whole pitching staff sucks? *****...

Bobbo35
07-19-2006, 08:58 PM
He needs to throw his slider, it's nasty. He shouldn't be throwing his curveball, that's what ****s everything up.

I'm sorry, that's what I meant.

ilsox7
07-19-2006, 08:59 PM
What?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!??!! What games are you watching? He doesn't have any ****ing errors because he doesn't get to any ****ing balls!!!!

Anyone who thinks Rob plays a pretty good CF just doesn't get it. It's not even worth arguing.

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 08:59 PM
whatever chomp away get him OUT! this is ****. His last 6 or so games have been ****ing aweful

Yeah, what she said....

I am tired of the big inning act...NEXT

I am still positive, but after this game and sitting through the dramatic almost-comeback in the rain against Huston..I have had enough...


SERENITY NOW!!!! SERENITY NOW!!!!:angry:

:walkoff:
When ya got it, ya got it!!!

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 08:59 PM
Lessons Learned Tonight:
1) Brian Anderson should play the rest of the games in CF except for injury or death
2) It is the end of July our regular lineup should be out there everyday except rare off days and AJ usual schedule.
3) Nothing against Ross Gload but we need to acquire a true outfielder to backup Brian and demote Ross, not that Mackowiak is a bad player but he is a bad, slow centerfielder.
4) Javier Vazquez set-up man? I might be wrong but it seems he always pitches great the first 4 innings, then the 5th after somewhere he falls apart.
5) Mccarthy should be promoted to rotation.

MarySwiss
07-19-2006, 08:59 PM
I've read this entire thread. And I am seriously depressed. I am not going to use the "DC" word, but I really wish some of you people would get a grip.

Vazquez did not suck. He got very little offensive support.

Basically, from where I sat, we got outpitched. Their pitcher was good, but we should have sat on a pitch count occasionally.

That said, let's go get their sorry asses tomorrow.

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 09:00 PM
Anyone who thinks Rob plays a pretty good CF just doesn't get it. It's not even worth arguing.


"Uh yeah. But, uhhhh, duhhh, he hits pretty well. Duhhhh. Me like baseball. Duh."

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 09:00 PM
What?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!??!! What games are you watching? He doesn't have any ****ing errors because he doesn't get to any ****ing balls!!!!
Oh, next you are going to tell me that's why Carlos Lee didn't have any errors in 04, right?

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:00 PM
Lessons Learned Tonight:
1) Brian Anderson should play the rest of the games in CF except for injury or death
2) It is the end of July our regular lineup should be out there everyday except rare off days and AJ usual schedule.
3) Nothing against Ross Gload but we need to acquire a true outfielder to backup Brian and demote Ross, not that Mackowiak is a bad player but he is a bad, slow centerfielder.
4) Javier Vazquez set-up man? I might be wrong but it seems he always pitches great the first 4 innings, then the 5th after somewhere he falls apart.
5) Mccarthy should be promoted to rotation.


I'll take Vazquez over Garcia any day of the week.

Hagan
07-19-2006, 09:01 PM
Javier Vazquez is so bad. I have no idea why we traded so much for him!

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:01 PM
:?: Should have been won by the Sox? What is that even supposed to mean? Every game should be won.

I thought Bonderman looked pretty damn good. I don't know what you were watching.

The Sox played the better overall game...the Tigers didn't deserve to win. Bonderman did look good, but if it wasn't for Javy's hanger, they would have won.

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 09:01 PM
oeo-

I do watch every game. I was in Detroit yesterday. Your head in the sand b.s. makes me want to log off this site.

If you want to feel better after this ****show go read some other pollyanna's post. If you want objective analysis from someone who realizes that this pitching staff sucks read me.

0o0o0
07-19-2006, 09:01 PM
I'll take Vazquez over Garcia any day of the week.
What about Wednesday?

tstrike2000
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
It would've been tough to win anyway scoring only 2 runs with Vazquez pitching. We can't go into August with 3 of our starters having a 5.00+ ERA. Bright spot about 1 of those 3 is Garland has been pitching well of late. Hopefully Buehrle and Garcia and get it together.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
To me it looked like one team (Detroit) taking something (supremacy) from another team (Chicago) tonight...after only one year.


:?: Going 2-6 this year against Chicago gives Detroit supremacy how?

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
Basically, from where I sat, we got outpitched. Their pitcher was good, but we should have sat on a pitch count occasionally.


Their pitcher was awesome. I have pitcher envy.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Epark84
I dont get it. No mac isnt a gold glover. How many games have been lost because brian anderson hasnt gotten a bunt down or even hit as well as a pitcher. And he plays pretty good in CF and doesnt have an error. But he has misjudged balls and i know i have seen him airmail the cut off man more than a few times. Its not like they sat out willie mays. My God.


What?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!??!! What games are you watching? He doesn't have any ****ing errors because he doesn't get to any ****ing balls!!!!


what the **** are you talking about exactly?!?!??! are you watching the cubs games or something???

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
Oh, next you are going to tell me that's why Carlos Lee didn't have any errors in 04, right?

LOL...Nope he was truely a gold glover....

ilsox7
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
The Sox played the better overall game...the Tigers didn't deserve to win. Bonderman did look good, but if it wasn't for Javy's hanger, they would have won.

And if Tony G. didn't let a ball go thru his legs and if AJ didn't run to 1st base and if if if. They capitalized and won the game. Give them credit.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
Ugh...it's people like you that want me to log out of this website and never come back.

Watch EVERY game and then I will take your input seriously, because they haven't been terrible all year. And Javy throws ONE huge mistake and the whole pitching staff sucks? *****...

Can everyone STOP SAYING Javy made just one mistake? If you watched the rest of the inning, the next two batters got hangers too. They just didn't slam them out. That's how the patented Javy-Crooked number inning usually goes.

Does he maybe just not have enough to go through a lineup three times? Maybe he would be more effective in the pen.

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
If it wasn't for Javy's slider? He throws a bad slider every game. If you actually watch them.

BeviBall!
07-19-2006, 09:02 PM
I think we've covered every angle. Here's to the series win tomorrow (morning). EST + MLB = :puking:

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Epark84
I dont get it. No mac isnt a gold glover. How many games have been lost because brian anderson hasnt gotten a bunt down or even hit as well as a pitcher. And he plays pretty good in CF and doesnt have an error. But he has misjudged balls and i know i have seen him airmail the cut off man more than a few times. Its not like they sat out willie mays. My God.





what the **** are you talking about exactly?!?!??! are you watching the cubs games or something???

I'm talking about Macko not Anderson.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:03 PM
For the third time this season--Anderson gets to that ball.
No it's about the 7th or 8th time.

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:03 PM
oeo-

I do watch every game. I was in Detroit yesterday. Your head in the sand b.s. makes me want to log off this site.

If you want to feel better after this ****show go read some other pollyanna's post. If you want objective analysis from someone who realizes that this pitching staff sucks read me.

Where did you analyze? I must have missed that.

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 09:03 PM
The Sox played the better overall game...the Tigers didn't deserve to win. Bonderman did look good, but if it wasn't for Javy's hanger, they would have won.

The Sox got five hits, two of which were solo homers. I don't think, actually, that they played the better game. They lost this one fair and square to a team that brought some great pitching tonight. Great pitching beats good pitching unless the bats rattle more than they did in this one.

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Epark84
I dont get it. No mac isnt a gold glover. How many games have been lost because brian anderson hasnt gotten a bunt down or even hit as well as a pitcher. And he plays pretty good in CF and doesnt have an error. But he has misjudged balls and i know i have seen him airmail the cut off man more than a few times. Its not like they sat out willie mays. My God.





what the **** are you talking about exactly?!?!??! are you watching the cubs games or something???
He misunderstood, and thought he was complimenting Rob's defense.

HebrewHammer
07-19-2006, 09:04 PM
He's gutless for throwing the pitches AJ calls for? ***...

The whole "gutless" thing is a ****ing joke.

If he can't make the pitch he should shake him off.

He needed to make a pitch to Monroe(on a 2-2 count!!!) and he hangs his useless breaking ball up in the zone. This constant apologizing for this clown is a ****ing joke.

Don't act like this is the first time Vazquez has ever choked in an important situation.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 09:04 PM
I'm talking about Macko not Anderson.


oh i know what you are talking about...i was talking about this other guy knocking anderson

MrX
07-19-2006, 09:04 PM
What?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!??!! What games are you watching? He doesn't have any ****ing errors because he doesn't get to any ****ing balls!!!!
That's like arguing that a certain former SS was a great fielder

:hitless

"I was awesome"

PeoriaSoxFan
07-19-2006, 09:04 PM
Mackowiak's not even servicable in CF. If he gets to that ball, the whole inning changes. Vazquez made 2 bad pitches.

After seeing the highlights, those were cheap hits, except for the HR that is. Another bad fielding play helps them. Rob M., can't play CF. Ozzie, what do you need to see? With that said, Javy still has a pattern of the same thing over and over and over. :angry:

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 09:05 PM
You missed the entire game. His one bad slider is his entire season. Javy and his team haven't played up to par. Bonderman was dealing. It was up to the pitcher to protect the lead.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-19-2006, 09:05 PM
Should be more like the millionth. Macko is not a CF. BA should be playing there every day. I don't give a damn about his .200 batting avg, I could care less about that, it's his defense that won some games for us. If he'd been there, it might be only 2-2 instead of a 5-2 loss. :whiner:

I'm with you on Mack. Don't know what the hell is in Ozzie's head with this? You need someone out there who can take charge and it sure isn't Mack. And BA's getting his hitting act together. Even if he had just brought in BA in the 5th or 6th for defense. Drives me nuts. Hope Jose can get us back on track.

Cellview22
07-19-2006, 09:05 PM
I thought I was watching Freddy out there for a moment losing his cool and letting his emotions get to him. When he gave up that hit to Pudge and threw a fit, I knew he had lost it. He lost focus, and from then on it was all mental. Let's just hope Jose can shut em down tomorrow.

0o0o0
07-19-2006, 09:06 PM
The Sox played the better overall game...the Tigers didn't deserve to win. Bonderman did look good, but if it wasn't for Javy's hanger, they would have won.

But Javy's hanger did exist, and Monroe did what he was supposed to.

This still makes no sense to me, but it's pointless to argue about it.


On a lighter note, at least Javy won't be starting for 4 games.

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 09:06 PM
OK, OK....nobody is blowing anything out of their %&$es - From the Great Outdoors.

C'mon people, we are all Sox fans....let's not loose it...I agree Javy well, he basically sucks, for just an inning a game...but he does suck for it.

SERENITY NOW!!! SERENITY NOW!!!!

Moe, Larry...Bud Light....Moe, Larry...Bud Light...

:walkoff:

When ya got it, ya got it.

Patrick134
07-19-2006, 09:06 PM
I'm usually a sunny cloud, but with the twins looking like they're gonna win tonight, the Sox will be 4.5 out of first, 5 up on 3rd place.

Chisox003
07-19-2006, 09:06 PM
Javier Vazquez is so bad. I have no idea why we traded so much for him!
Posts like this drive me insane.

We got beat, plain and simple. Hope Jose's on tomorrow.

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 09:06 PM
Javy won't be. But Buerhle and Garcia will.

stl_sox_fan
07-19-2006, 09:07 PM
My God I Hate listening to Jeff Brantley!!!!!! Must resist throwing something into TV.
And tonight's game sucked. Power went off in St Louis right when Mag's singled home a run. Just caught the lowlights on Baseball Tonight. Did I mention I can't stand Jeff Brantley?

Go get 'em tomorrow Jose!!!!

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:07 PM
The Sox got five hits, two of which were solo homers. I don't think, actually, that they played the better game. They lost this one fair and square to a team that brought some great pitching tonight. Great pitching beats good pitching unless the bats rattle more than they did in this one.

Their #1 (IMO) against our #5...if you thought they were going to score a bunch of runs and win the game in a blowout, then you should stop dreaming. Coming into this series, this was the one game I thought the Sox would lose, and they did. I still think the Sox played the better game, and if Javy doesn't throw that hanger to Monroe, you'd be agreeing with me right now.

MarySwiss
07-19-2006, 09:07 PM
oeo-

I do watch every game. I was in Detroit yesterday. Your head in the sand b.s. makes me want to log off this site.

If you want to feel better after this ****show go read some other pollyanna's post. If you want objective analysis from someone who realizes that this pitching staff sucks read me.

"Some other Pollyanna" here. And if you really believe this pitching staff sucks, that means that you have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.

And we should read you why?

SluggersAway
07-19-2006, 09:08 PM
Javier deserves a lot of responsibility for this loss. Ozzie too, as he could have taken him out earlier before disaster struck.

But, we will lose a ton of games when our first 4 hitters go 0-16!

FarWestChicago
07-19-2006, 09:08 PM
makes me want to log off this site.:praying:

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 09:08 PM
What about 8th best in the AL makes you think that pitching has anything to do with this team's record?

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:08 PM
If he can't make the pitch he should shake him off.

He needed to make a pitch to Monroe(on a 2-2 count!!!) and he hangs his useless breaking ball up in the zone. This constant apologizing for this clown is a ****ing joke.

Don't act like this is the first time Vazquez has ever choked in an important situation.


If you want to call him a ****ty pitcher, that's fine. If you want to say he sucks. That's still better than calling him "gutless." Calling ball players gutless makes you look like a ****ty sportwriter.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:08 PM
And if Tony G. didn't let a ball go thru his legs and if AJ didn't run to 1st base and if if if. They capitalized and won the game. Give them credit.

Credit the other team for winning? Get out of here! I will never give credit where credit was due.

Tough loss. Got to come back and get'em tomorrow.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:09 PM
he also goes 0/4 or 1/4 with a few embarrassing ABs..i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team
He's batting like 400 in the last month, and is on I think a 9 game hitting streak. By the way defense wins championships. Go through the season with all the nice plays he has made and count how many runs would have scored. I swear they should create a stat for fielders where everytime you make a play involving a great play instead of RBI's it should be called a RTA (runs taken away). Hell they created holds for relievers.

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 09:09 PM
OK, so where are the people arguing that the offense did good? If Javy is garbage, and it's all his fault we lost, why isn't anyone defending the offense?

The offense lost us this game. You don't win games against good teams when you score only two runs. As soon as the slam was hit, I knew the game was over. The offense looked so clueless today - swing for the fences every time. With the effort we put forth, 3 runs was insurmountable.

As I said before, this game is a loss no matter who is pitching.

CLR01
07-19-2006, 09:09 PM
I'm just sick of the "BA would have had that" threads. Heck if BA sat out every game everyone here would award him a platinum glove.


Anderson could be playing with a prosthetic leg and still be better in CFer than Mackowiak.

illiniwillfightU
07-19-2006, 09:10 PM
he also goes 0/4 or 1/4 with a few embarrassing ABs..i cant believe how many people think anderson is a CF on a potential playoff team

I had to join to respond to this post. So you think mackowiak is a CF on a playoff team? Even with BA's bat I think he is much more of a playoff CF than Rob.

Fake Chet Lemon
07-19-2006, 09:10 PM
I'm usually a sunny cloud, but with the twins looking like they're gonna win tonight, the Sox will be 4.5 out of first, 5 up on 3rd place.

The Twins, the team that gives young pitchers an opportunity. That's stupid. You think McCarthy would be a starter now if in the Twins organization? Hunter goes down and it has no effect, they are a machine.

There are a lot of off days in the second half, it's time to think about a 4 man rotation.

Patrick134
07-19-2006, 09:11 PM
The Twins, the team that gives young pitchers an opportunity. That's stupid. You think McCarthy would be a starter now if in the Twins organization? Hunter goes down and it has no effect, they are a machine.

There are a lot of off days in the second half, it's time to think about a 4 man rotation.


That's insane when (maybe) half the 4 are pitching well.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:12 PM
they are a machine.




:redface:

You just called the Twins a "machine." :tongue:

0o0o0
07-19-2006, 09:12 PM
Wow. This thread is getting real funny, real fast. I'm going to the Parking Lot.

markopat
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
I've read this entire thread. And I am seriously depressed. I am not going to use the "DC" word, but I really wish some of you people would get a grip.

Vazquez did not suck. He got very little offensive support.

Basically, from where I sat, we got outpitched. Their pitcher was good, but we should have sat on a pitch count occasionally.

That said, let's go get their sorry asses tomorrow.

I agree MarySwiss...I am done reading this crap for tonight...thanks for the OPTIMISM!

Go Go SOX!

JB98
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
I've never been a Vazquez fan. I wasn't fond of the trade when it happened. But now that he's here, I think we have to stick with him. Somehow, these five-run innings have got to become one- or two-run innings. After a couple seeing-eye hits and a defensive mistake, you have to get tough and minimize damage. For some reason, Javy isn't doing it. There's no excuse for it. He's a veteran pitcher.

To those who want to put McCarthy in the rotation: If we demote Javy to the bullpen, I don't think we're going to get anything out of him. He'd also be the highest-paid middle reliever in the league. Honestly, I don't think we'll be trading any of the five starters, so let's put that out of our minds now.

The starters who are in the rotation now are the guys we're going to battle with. I suggest we all get used to it.

TornLabrum
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
Well, one thing is certain, you can use this thread as a perfect illustration of what does or does not constitute a "dark cloud."

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
Anderson could be playing with a prosthetic leg and still be better in CFer than Mackowiak.

But not better than Singleton. Hey, let's get him out of the booth! :cool:

ilsox7
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
The Twins, the team that gives young pitchers an opportunity. That's stupid. You think McCarthy would be a starter now if in the Twins organization? Hunter goes down and it has no effect, they are a machine.

There are a lot of off days in the second half, it's time to think about a 4 man rotation.

:rolling:

You do realize the great Johan spent YEARS in their bullpen, right? Seriously, if you're going to make an argument, at least make it factually correct.

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
I'm just sick of the "BA would have had that" threads. Heck if BA sat out every game everyone here would award him a platinum glove.

Did you see Mackowiak on that play? Brian would have had that, and without a problem either. Mackowiak plays a game of Ring Around the Rosie before he goes to catch the ball.

Dan H
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
I didn't get to see much of this game so I am not going to comment on the action. I did see the line score with the Sox only getting five hits. This is why some of us are concerned with lack of consistency from the starting pitching. The hitting is not going to be there every game.

I'm frustrated with Vazquez too, but it's not the first time the Sox have trouble with their #5 starter. With the trouble with the rest of the staff, the number 5 starter's problems will stick out more. That being said, I don't think it would hurt at all to give McCarthy a few starts. I'm sure he can give up five runs in six innings, too.

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
OK, so where are the people arguing that the offense did good? If Javy is garbage, and it's all his fault we lost, why isn't anyone defending the offense?

The offense lost us this game.


No, the 5 runs scored against us lost us this game in one inning...that is Javy...that is what he does...he has the big inning.

That jag is driving me up the ******* wall. You have to win 2 run games if you are going to be the champs.

I wanted to break their hearts this series...and ghost them all season...**** I hate losing like this.

Grzegorz
07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
Listen, a win tomorrow meets the goal of taking the series; just do it guys.

I believe Contreras gets it done tomorrow.

Rob Mackowiak is getting a ton of heat on this board; he doesn't deserve it. He's being played out of position and that's management's fault.

Brian Anderson should play the bulk of the games in CF. I have to laugh at those that question whether this team can get to and through the playoffs with Anderson in CF.

Brian Anderson is not the problem with this team. Pitching, pitching, pitching; I'll say it again pitching is the commodity that either makes or breaks the 2006 White Sox.

SluggersAway
07-19-2006, 09:14 PM
Javier deserves a lot of responsibility for this loss. Ozzie too, as he could have taken him out earlier before disaster struck.

But, we will lose a ton of games when our first 4 hitters go 0-16!

I repeat, our first four hitters were 0-16! Our pitching was really not the problem tonight.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 09:15 PM
Anderson could be playing with a prosthetic leg and still be better in CFer than Mackowiak.


and an arm tied behind his back

MarySwiss
07-19-2006, 09:15 PM
Well, one thing is certain, you can use this thread as a perfect illustration of what does or does not constitute a "dark cloud."

Damn, as I read through this, that is exactly what I was thinking!

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:16 PM
I repeat, our first four hitters were 0-16! Our pitching was really not the problem tonight.

No, Jeremy Bonderman was the problem.

But...you have to remember that everyone HATES Javy Vazquez around here, so of course they're going to blame the game on him.

JB98
07-19-2006, 09:16 PM
The Twins, the team that gives young pitchers an opportunity. That's stupid. You think McCarthy would be a starter now if in the Twins organization? Hunter goes down and it has no effect, they are a machine.

There are a lot of off days in the second half, it's time to think about a 4 man rotation.

A lot of days off in the second half? Go back and check your schedule, and remember we have a makeup game with the Angels.

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 09:17 PM
I've never been a Vazquez fan. I wasn't fond of the trade when it happened. But now that he's here, I think we have to stick with him. Somehow, these five-run innings have got to become one- or two-run innings. After a couple seeing-eye hits and a defensive mistake, you have to get tough and minimize damage. For some reason, Javy isn't doing it. There's no excuse for it. He's a veteran pitcher.

To those who want to put McCarthy in the rotation: If we demote Javy to the bullpen, I don't think we're going to get anything out of him. He'd also be the highest-paid middle reliever in the league. Honestly, I don't think we'll be trading any of the five starters, so let's put that out of our minds now.

The starters who are in the rotation now are the guys we're going to battle with. I suggest we all get used to it.

I agree with you. Let me first say that McCarthy is going to be a great pitcher in the future, but what exactly makes people think he is going to be lights out starting this year? What makes people think he will even be better than Vazquez in the rotation? I haven't seen him have too many lights out performances in the pen. I have seen him **** up a bunch of times. I guess this is a case of the grass being greener on the other side. McCarthy should not, and will not start on the Sox this year (barring a trade).

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:17 PM
I repeat, our first four hitters were 0-16! Our pitching was really not the problem tonight.
Pssst...I'm with you but some of the others:
:noevil:

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:18 PM
I repeat, our first four hitters were 0-16! Our pitching was really not the problem tonight.

When you go up against a guy like Bonderman, you're going to have to make do with a couple runs. That's just the way it is, most of the time.

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 09:18 PM
Question.....Why sit Andersen when he is hitting over .400 recently and has the better defense...are we waiting till he hits over .600?

That ticked me off as well....

*&*%...just don't like the big inning....

cheezheadsoxfan
07-19-2006, 09:18 PM
:?: Going 2-6 this year against Chicago gives Detroit supremacy how?

Yeah, I can't exactly buy into that either.:?:

Rikirk
07-19-2006, 09:18 PM
Or does the team play better when the starters are in?
*yeah yeah, I know...dumb question.*

So why do they put in the "B" team when there is an important game on the line like this?

Couldnt Iguchi and Anderson have played today? Anderson seriously is better in CF than macko. And Guch could have done something..

Eh why do i bother complaining,...This is a game we could have won, but with Vaz in there...i guess i should have thought twice.:angry:

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:19 PM
But...you have to remember that everyone HATES Javy Vazquez around here, so of course they're going to blame the game on him.

That's because Luis Vizcaino was a fan favorite here at WSI!

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:19 PM
I know he beat his wife but what about Freddy for Myers and Flash? Supposedly Philly wants to deal Myers because of the incident. Then move BMac into the rotation and use Javy as the setup man.

Chisox1500
07-19-2006, 09:20 PM
A big segment of the once true to themselves White Sox fan base has turned into head in the sand over-optimists.

This is a big series after losing two of three to Boston and getting kicked around by the Yankees. The Sox blow tonight's game because of a complete meltdown of pitching and defense, which was the basis for their one title in the last 88 years.

Don't let the gleam off the trophy blind you. This team has holes and the pitching will not just switch on.

Right now one starter has an era under 4. So bitch about darkclouds, but tonight is more of a trend than an abberation.

How did the high powered offense work work in the 2000 playoffs?

tstrike2000
07-19-2006, 09:20 PM
:praying:

Didn't Hosehead fly over Kitchener in "Strange Brew?"

bluestar
07-19-2006, 09:20 PM
Well, one thing is certain, you can use this thread as a perfect illustration of what does or does not constitute a "dark cloud."

Amen, brother! I know postgame threads after a loss can be brutal, but the ledge is looking really crowded tonight.

I just trust the team has a little better perspective than some of the people here.

:kukoo:

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 09:20 PM
No, the 5 runs scored against us lost us this game in one inning...that is Javy...that is what he does...he has the big inning.

That jag is driving me up the ******* wall. You have to win 2 run games if you are going to be the champs.

I wanted to break their hearts this series...and ghost them all season...**** I hate losing like this.
So Vazquez should have given up 0 or 1 runs against a good team? Anything more is horrible. You should expect to win games when you only score 2 runs.

That is a sound arguement.

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:21 PM
When you go up against a guy like Bonderman, you're going to have to make do with a couple runs. That's just the way it is, most of the time.
That's why it wasn't a good matchup for us from the beginning. I'm not ripping Javy...but Bonderman is a better pitcher than him (at least right now).

So...you KNOW they're not going to win every game, and if you thought they were going to sweep the series, you're crazy. Just concede the game and go get them tomorrow...Bonderman pitched great, tip his hat to him and move on. Get off the ledge, people...if this series, so far, has shown anything; it's that the Sox are a much better team than the Tigers. And if some of you still think that the Tigers are the best team in baseball, watch the games, they're not as good as their record indicates...they really aren't. Don't even compare that team to the 2005 White Sox, because that's an insult to the 2005 White Sox.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 09:21 PM
No, Jeremy Bonderman was the problem.

But...you have to remember that everyone HATES Javy Vazquez around here, so of course they're going to blame the game on him.


I dont think it is so much hate him...i mean now everyone does. he has not done anything to make anyone think differently. sure we should have scored more runs, but yes Vazquez blew that game. Not with one mistake that whole inning was a mistake.

MrX
07-19-2006, 09:21 PM
I know he beat his wife but
That's never a good way to start a post:D:

Hitmen77
07-19-2006, 09:22 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1246510#post1246510

Wow, how did I ever guess this was going to happen? Am I psychic or what?

Now for my next great prediction: It's not going to snow in Chicago tomorrow.:rolleyes:

So tell me, if our main concern tonight is a pitcher who melts down when bloop hits fall in or when the bullpen lets him down, then why? Oh why!!! is Ozzie starting Mack in CF over Anderson? Unless BA is hurt, I just don't get it. Has anyone asked Ozzie this in a press conference? I'm very curious as to his logic here because I'm just not getting it.

My thinking is that BA would have caught that bloop hit that fell in front of Mack. Does that mean Monroe just hits a 3-run HR and the Tigers win 4-2? We'll never know, but making that play could have very easily changed the tone and outcome of that whole inning.

So why isn't Ozzie putting the most solid defense out there behind Javy to help him out, possibly avoid the dreaded big inning, and help him get his confidence back and turn things around. Anyone have the answer? Bueller? Bueller?

CLR01
07-19-2006, 09:22 PM
But not better than Singleton. Hey, let's get him out of the booth! :cool:


The Sox wouldn't lose another game all year. Hell he could still be the radio color guy and get the job done in the field.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:23 PM
I agree with you. Let me first say that McCarthy is going to be a great pitcher in the future, but what exactly makes people think he is going to be lights out starting this year? What makes people think he will even be better than Vazquez in the rotation?
At worst Bmac would pitch equilavent to what both Freddy and Javy have done this season. With that being said I would rather Bmac give us these performances and stats than the other 2 because when he does eventually get his oppertunity they will happen. Using Bmac for these performances will make him and the team better in the long run.

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 09:24 PM
So Vazquez should have given up 0 or 1 runs against a good team? Anything more is horrible. You should expect to win games when you only score 2 runs.

That is a sound arguement.

Unh, yeah dude....that is what a solid professional championship pitching staff does...they win the close ones...they don't give up 5,6,7 run innings.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:24 PM
That's why it wasn't a good matchup for us from the beginning. I'm not ripping Javy...but Bonderman is a better pitcher than him (at least right now).

So...you KNOW they're not going to win every game, and if you thought they were going to sweep the series, you're crazy. Just concede the game and go get them tomorrow...Bonderman pitched great, tip his hat to him and move on. Get off the ledge, people...if this series, so far, has shown anything; it's that the Sox are a much better team than the Tigers.

Agreed. My only concerns are long term, not just what transpired tonight. A) Mackowiak is not a CF. We're still a defensive team first. B) AJ has to tighten up his game calling. 3 of our 5 starters are scared of the bat right now.

FarWestChicago
07-19-2006, 09:24 PM
A big segment of the once true to themselves White Sox fan base has turned into head in the sand over-optimists.

This is a big series after losing two of three to Boston and getting kicked around by the Yankees. The Sox blow tonight's game because of a complete meltdown of pitching and defense, which was the basis for their one title in the last 88 years.

Don't let the gleam off the trophy blind you. This team has holes and the pitching will not just switch on.

Right now one starter has an era under 4. So bitch about darkclouds, but tonight is more of a trend than an abberation.

How did the high powered offense work work in the 2000 playoffs?This guy is actually quite amusing. :roflmao:

JUribe1989
07-19-2006, 09:24 PM
We would've won this game if shoplifters were kept in jail.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1940868)

Also, Vazquez is a ****ing joke. How many more bad starts can this guy have before they get him out of the rotation.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:25 PM
The Sox wouldn't lose another game all year. Hell he could still be the radio color guy and get the job done in the field.

I love you.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:25 PM
The Sox wouldn't lose another game all year. Hell he could still be the radio color guy and get the job done in the field.
I could picture Singleton patrolling center while wearing the headset.

NSSoxFan
07-19-2006, 09:25 PM
This guy is actually quite amusing. :roflmao:

I know!

FWC, this is like last year, all over again! I love it!

tstrike2000
07-19-2006, 09:26 PM
I dont think it is so much hate him...i mean now everyone does. he has not done anything to make anyone think differently. sure we should have scored more runs, but yes Vazquez blew that game. Not with one mistake that whole inning was a mistake.

It seems like it's the same problem over and over. Vazquez wastes a fastball up and out of the zone, but then is able to paint the outside corner. He then locates the slider low and away to righties. It's the damn hanging curve ball that's killing him, especially with 2 strikes. Either get on top of it or don't throw it..start after start after start.

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 09:26 PM
Seems to me it would have been unrealistic to expect Vasquez to win a 2-0 or 2-1 game. Sure, it would have been nice, but he's not a pitcher who throws shutouts or one-run games. If he were, he wouldn't be the #5 starter. To expect that of him is just silly.

So Vasquez needed more than 2 runs to win, and the offense couldn't put together a rally or even a string of consecutive hits, and the Tigers won. Good job by Bonderman; he's an impressive young pitcher.

Tomorrow I hope the Sox beat up on the old guy, Rogers.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:26 PM
This guy is actually quite amusing. :roflmao:
Yeah. He's like a kinder, gentler Homefish.

MVP
07-19-2006, 09:27 PM
Mackowiak's not even servicable in CF. If he gets to that ball, the whole inning changes. Vazquez made 2 bad pitches.


Great point. Vazquez threw the pitches and gave up the runs, but Guillen needs to stop playing Mackowiak in CF. I like Mackowiak, but he's not a center fielder.

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 09:27 PM
Where did homefish go?

WSox8404
07-19-2006, 09:28 PM
Where did homefish go?

I miss him.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-19-2006, 09:28 PM
Listen, a win tomorrow meets the goal of taking the series; just do it guys.

I believe Contreras gets it done tomorrow.

Rob Mackowiak is getting a ton of heat on this board; he doesn't deserve it. He's being played out of position and that's management's fault.

Brian Anderson should play the bulk of the games in CF. I have to laugh at those that question whether this team can get to and through the playoffs with Anderson in CF.

Brian Anderson is not the problem with this team. Pitching, pitching, pitching; I'll say it again pitching is the commodity that either makes or breaks the 2006 White Sox.


I agree, it's Ozzie with this damm platooning crap. Or maybe he was punishing BA for something. Whatever, it's hurting. When the pitching has been as iffy as it has been you need every defensive edge. RMac is an OK utility guy but no centerfielder.

Daver
07-19-2006, 09:28 PM
Where did homefish go?

Same place as last year, he joined the band.

TheOldRoman
07-19-2006, 09:29 PM
This guy is actually quite amusing. :roflmao:
You laugh now, but little do you know, the season is already over. We suck, and we can only hope to fend of the Indians for third place. See you guys in the offseason!

infohawk
07-19-2006, 09:29 PM
Vazquez BLOWS:angry: :angry: :angry:

and NO it wasnt just one inning it has been multiple innings in multiple games. This isnt some rare thing for him.
I agree. He either needs to swear off that ridiculous lollipop curveball or we need to insert Brandon into the rotation. That curve is killing him and the Sox. He strikes me as a pitcher that could be very successful by just throwing his fastball, slider and change. There is no conceivable reason why he should keep throwing that sad rolling curveball.

bluestar
07-19-2006, 09:31 PM
Seems to me it would have been unrealistic to expect Vasquez to win a 2-0 or 2-1 game. Sure, it would have been nice, but he's not a pitcher who throws shutouts or one-run games. If he were, he wouldn't be the #5 starter. To expect that of him is just silly.

So Vasquez needed more than 2 runs to win, and the offense couldn't put together a rally or even a string of consecutive hits, and the Tigers won. Good job by Bonderman; he's an impressive young pitcher.

Tomorrow I hope the Sox beat up on the old guy, Rogers.

Thank you for that calm, reasonable, realistic analysis.

JB98
07-19-2006, 09:31 PM
At worst Fingernails on a blackboard would pitch equilavent to what both Freddy and Javy have done this season. With that being said I would rather Fingernails on a blackboard give us these performances and stats than the other 2 because when he does eventually get his oppertunity they will happen. Using Fingernails on a blackboard for these performances will make him and the team better in the long run.

Let's say we replace either Freddy or Javy with Brandon. Then what do you do with Freddy or Javy? You think they can help us out of the bullpen? I wouldn't count on that. They'd probably start sulking after the demotion. Given Freddy's first-inning trouble, he'd be poison out of the bullpen. Brandon hasn't pitched as a starter all year. If he's forced into that duty because of injury, so be it. Otherwise, I'm inclined to keep him where he is.

Like I said, I don't think a trade will happen, and we will either sink or swim with these five starters.

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 09:31 PM
Sooo, why when you have a young player coming around in center who is a great defensive player, and he sits...and you have a starter who gives up the big inning pretty consistantly and can win when you give him 8-9 runs...when you have that, why is that being on some kind of ledge???

You let a game get away from you, to the team that you are chasing for most of the year.....what is there to like out of this one...right now...

You gotta let us blow off the steam..otherwise, we'd be Cub fans.

Serentiy Now:bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

zmz723
07-19-2006, 09:31 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1246510#post1246510

Mr. Vazquez, please don't crap your pants tonight when Mackowiak lets one drop in.

Sincerely,
White Sox Army



wow, nice call :D:

DickAllen72
07-19-2006, 09:33 PM
Vazquez usually does very well the first two times through the lineup. He belongs in the bullpen. Give McCarthy a chance to start. He's going to be a starter next year anyway, and he won't do any worse than Vazquez is now anyway.

Either that, or trade Vazquez & Mackowiak for Gordon & Rowand, Howry & Pierre, or some other bonafide RP/backup CF combo.

I like Mackowiak, but it seems as long as he's around, Ozzie will keep putting him out in CF, and he just doesn't belong out there.

bluestar
07-19-2006, 09:33 PM
I agree. He either needs to swear off that ridiculous lollipop curveball or we need to insert Brandon into the rotation. That curve is killing him and the Sox. He strikes me as a pitcher that could be very successful by just throwing his fastball, slider and change. There is no conceivable reason why he should keep throwing that sad rolling curveball.

But...but...wasn't that a hanging slider Monroe hit? I don't think that was a curve. At least it didn't look like a curve to me.

TornLabrum
07-19-2006, 09:35 PM
The Sox wouldn't lose another game all year. Hell he could still be the radio color guy and get the job done in the field.

I think you're confusing Singleton with Chuck Norris, who actually could do that.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:35 PM
One thing that's being lost in all of this is Uribe's throw to home. That was a statement play. I'd like to see more of it. I want to see more of that "bring it on" swagger. He may not the best hitter, but he's an impact player.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:38 PM
One thing that's being lost in all of this is Uribe's throw to home. That was a statement play. I'd like to see more of it. I want to see more of that "bring it on" swagger. He may not the best hitter, but he's an impact player.

I liked it. I don't think most people did, but was happy to see him go home on that throw.

mccoydp
07-19-2006, 09:39 PM
Today was both good and bad:

Bad: Sox blew the game 5-2.

Good: I completed two of my Pink Floyd albums that were missing songs -- Meddle and Wish You Were Here. Alas, they are now whole again, and great!
Can't wait for my Pink Floyd - Pulse DVD to arrive at the house!

TornLabrum
07-19-2006, 09:39 PM
I agree, it's Ozzie with this damm platooning crap. Or maybe he was punishing BA for something. Whatever, it's hurting. When the pitching has been as iffy as it has been you need every defensive edge. RMac is an OK utility guy but no centerfielder.

I understand (although I didn't hear it) that he was on Mike North's show this morning and let it be known that he wasn't pleased when he cut in front of Pods on that flyball that Pods caught in CF. He might have benched him for that.

Mackowiak is not a CF. In fact, we still only have 3 outfielders on this club, no matter what the roster says, because neither he, Ozuna, or Gload are really outfielders. This has been a weakness of the team from before day 1.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 09:40 PM
I liked it. I don't think most people did, but was happy to see him go home on that throw.


I thought it was good stuff. Good play by Juan. Juan had a good game.. .GO JUAN AND CREDE!

Can Vazquez be the PTC?

MrX
07-19-2006, 09:40 PM
I understand (although I didn't hear it) that he was on Mike North's show this morning and let it be known that he wasn't pleased when he cut in front of Pods on that flyball that Pods caught in CF. He might have benched him for that.
I wonder what he thought on that fly where Mack and Pods almost took each out.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:41 PM
I understand (although I didn't hear it) that he was on Mike North's show this morning and let it be known that he wasn't pleased when he cut in front of Pods on that flyball that Pods caught in CF. He might have benched him for that.

It seems to me that Anderson has been doing a lot of cutting and bumping into Pods and Dye this year.

DickAllen72
07-19-2006, 09:41 PM
Seems to me it would have been unrealistic to expect Vasquez to win a 2-0 or 2-1 game. Sure, it would have been nice, but he's not a pitcher who throws shutouts or one-run games. If he were, he wouldn't be the #5 starter. To expect that of him is just silly.


See, I wouldn't have a problem keeping Vazquez as the number five starter if he were treated as a number five starter. For example, with the off day Monday, and a BIG series against Detroit, we could have skipped our number five and started Contreras today on his normal days rest. But the Sox don't want to do that. They want five solid starters who take the ball each time it's their turn.

That's why I would start McCarthy and let Vazquez go to the bullpen, where opposing batters won't see him more than twice in a game.

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:41 PM
I liked it. I don't think most people did, but was happy to see him go home on that throw.

As did I, but the more I think about it, it could have changed the game if he conceded the run and got the 2 outs. Javy could have made some pitches and got out of the jam, and we would be sitting in a 2-2 tie.

But it was still a bang-bang play, and I wouldn't complain if he did it again.

MrX
07-19-2006, 09:42 PM
I liked it. I don't think most people did, but was happy to see him go home on that throw.
I thought that was pretty low for Hawk to call him out saying he cost the Sox a run after Monroe hit the slam.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:42 PM
It seems to me that Anderson has been doing a lot of cutting and bumping into Pods and Dye this year.

I think that sometimes they're surprised that he's getting to certain balls. Everytime that happens, it's the corner OF's fault IMO. It's the same as when Uribe steals Iguchi's pop ups. Uribe's the leader of that IF. Every ball is his.

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:42 PM
See, I wouldn't have a problem keeping Vazquez as the number five starter if he were treated as a number five starter. For example, with the off day Monday, and a BIG series against Detroit, we could have skipped our number five and started Contreras today on his normal days rest. But the Sox don't want to do that. They want five solid starters who take the ball each time it's their turn.

That's why I would start McCarthy and let Vazquez go to the bullpen, where opposing batters won't see him more than twice in a game.
You do know that Vazquez hasn't started a game since July 6th, right?

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:44 PM
I thought that was pretty low for Hawk to call him out saying he cost the Sox a run after Monroe hit the slam.

I'm beginning to dislike some of things Hawk has to say. He's been getting on my nerves lately.

Mohoney
07-19-2006, 09:44 PM
And a lot of people are going to be like "one bad inning, give him a break..."

It wasn't really a bad inning as much as it was a very unlucky inning with two bad at-bats.

Polanco's hit didn't leave the infield. Ordonez's hit was pretty weak and just happened to find a hole. Guillen was completely jammed and it landed.

If just ONE of the flukey hits that inning was an out, then the ball that Thames hit would have ended the inning.

The Tigers caught a few breaks today, and Bonderman was nails. I'm not ready to throw anybody under the bus for today's game.

DickAllen72
07-19-2006, 09:44 PM
You do know that Vazquez hasn't started a game since July 5th, right?

Who cares? I wish he hadn't started tonight. He could get plenty of work, an inning or two at a time, coming out of the pen.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:44 PM
I thought that was pretty low for Hawk to call him out saying he cost the Sox a run after Monroe hit the slam.

Especially after he just got done praising him. Hawk's a blow hard/windsock and always has been. That's a different discussion for a different day though.

Patrick134
07-19-2006, 09:44 PM
I thought that was pretty low for Hawk to call him out saying he cost the Sox a run after Monroe hit the slam.

How does that cost a run ????? it's 2-2, just makes the homer a 3 run shot.

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 09:44 PM
Mackowiak is not a CF. In fact, we still only have 3 outfielders on this club, no matter what the roster says, because neither he, Ozuna, or Gload are really outfielders. This has been a weakness of the team from before day 1.

Thank you, thank you, thank you...for that...that's all I have been saying...not the Sox suck...not that we won't win....just we got a few "issues"

Coming from an ackowledged true fan, that helps.

Not on a ledge...just being a good Sox fan...critical yes..but that is good.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:44 PM
Let's say we replace either Freddy or Javy with Brandon. Then what do you do with Freddy or Javy? You think they can help us out of the bullpen? I wouldn't count on that. They'd probably start sulking after the demotion. Given Freddy's first-inning trouble, he'd be poison out of the bullpen. Brandon hasn't pitched as a starter all year. If he's forced into that duty because of injury, so be it. Otherwise, I'm inclined to keep him where he is.

Like I said, I don't think a trade will happen, and we will either sink or swim with these five starters.
Trade Freddy cause with his I wanna be a finesse pitcher mentality he has now he is most valuable right now and can maybe get you Flash and becuase Philly wants him gone because of the whole wife incident Myers. Javy in a setup role until the end of the season I feel he would dominate. On a side note Shea Hillenbrand just got screwed by Toronto and got released. I have a feeling anything they will take anything for him. Why did he get released supposedly cause he left the team for a game to go adopt a child. I would rather have Shea than Ross and Cintron combined.

veeter
07-19-2006, 09:45 PM
Even after this game, another bad outing by a STARTER, John Kruk says the Sox should trade McCarthy for Flash ****ing Gordon. McCarthy is going to save this staff, trust me. How do these guys get paid to say this crap. The Sox need to have Javy and McCarthy switch spots. I really don't like Detroit's line up either.

JB98
07-19-2006, 09:46 PM
I'm beginning to dislike some of things Hawk has to say. He's been getting on my nerves lately.

Isn't he terrible when the Sox are going bad? I don't mind him when we're playing well because I think his passion for the team shines through. But when we're struggling, he's just a pouty mountain of excuses.

oeo
07-19-2006, 09:46 PM
Who cares? I wish he hadn't started tonight. He could get plenty of work, an inning or two at a time, coming out of the pen.

I do. He needed to be out there today, he hasn't pitched in a long time.

And then if Buehrle had a bad start tomorrow, you'd be complaining that the Sox never should have messed with anything. Why screw around with **** when you don't have to (they don't)?

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:46 PM
Isn't he terrible when the Sox are going bad? I don't mind him when we're playing well because I think his passion for the team shines through. But when we're struggling, he's just a pouty mountain of excuses.

Didn't you hear? Blaming the umps for everything is the new "stretch."

rainbow6
07-19-2006, 09:47 PM
Posts like this drive me insane.

We got beat, plain and simple. Hope Jose's on tomorrow.

I'm curious why a post like this drives you "insane"? While I understand the reasons for acquiring a pitcher like Vazquez for insurance, his career prior to this year can be described as anything from disappointing to a flat out failure. A high-paid pitcher who carts around an ERA in 5's and is constantly changing teams should wave several red flags....

A knowledgable Sox fan - and baseball fan - who realized that we had a promising young starter in the wings and figured, at worst, McCarthy could surrender 5 runs a game while gaining some experience should be lauded for their foresight. Watching the game tonight, they saw what they expected - Vazquez couldn't hold the lead and served up the same meatballs that he has the past couple of years...I don't blame them for being pissed.

Having said that, while I've never liked Vazquez, I supported the pick-up as "insurance."

Sad to say, Javier is fast approaching Jamie Navaro status- if he's scheduled to pitch, we'll need to score 7-8 runs to win. And he needs go...


Luke

Mohoney
07-19-2006, 09:47 PM
I liked it. I don't think most people did, but was happy to see him go home on that throw.

With the catcher running home, and most of the hits that inning being weak, I totally agree with Uribe going home to keep it 2-1.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:47 PM
I thought that was pretty low for Hawk to call him out saying he cost the Sox a run after Monroe hit the slam.

I didn't hear it, I had the Detroit feed.

I think that sometimes they're surprised that he's getting to certain balls. Everytime that happens, it's the corner OF's fault IMO. It's the same as when Uribe steals Iguchi's pop ups. Uribe's the leader of that IF. Every ball is his.
I agree with you, but I am thinking that Anderson isn't calling them off. Maybe Brian isn't taking control.

JB98
07-19-2006, 09:48 PM
Trade Freddy cause with his I wanna be a finesse pitcher mentality he has now he is most valuable right now and can maybe get you Flash and becuase Philly wants him gone because of the whole wife incident Myers. Javy in a setup role until the end of the season I feel he would dominate. On a side note Shea Hillenbrand just got screwed by Toronto and got released. I have a feeling anything they will take anything for him. Why did he get released supposedly cause he left the team for a game to go adopt a child. I would rather have Shea than Ross and Cintron combined.

Hillenbrand is a 1B/DH. We don't need anyone at that position. What the hell are you pissed at Cintron for? That guy has been a nice addition.

I don't want Myers. As I said, I'd be stunned if any of our starting five gets traded.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:48 PM
It seems to me that Anderson has been doing a lot of cutting and bumping into Pods and Dye this year.
He's the CF, the field general. Any ball he can get to is his whether he is a rookie or a 12 year Vet. If Pods and Dye have a problem with that deal with it, thats Brian's job.

cheezheadsoxfan
07-19-2006, 09:48 PM
I understand (although I didn't hear it) that he was on Mike North's show this morning and let it be known that he wasn't pleased when he cut in front of Pods on that flyball that Pods caught in CF. He might have benched him for that.

Mackowiak is not a CF. In fact, we still only have 3 outfielders on this club, no matter what the roster says, because neither he, Ozuna, or Gload are really outfielders. This has been a weakness of the team from before day 1.

I did hear bits of it on North's show, couldn't recall the details. So that snit costs us the game? Granted, then you had Javy hanging a curveball, but if that ball had been caught it could have made a difference. I love Ozzie, but this kind of thing make me crazy.:?:

JB98
07-19-2006, 09:49 PM
Didn't you hear? Blaming the umps for everything is the new "stretch."

I'm at work tonight, so I was watching the game on a TV from across the room. Didn't hear much volume. Might have been a blessing.

southside rocks
07-19-2006, 09:50 PM
I agree with you, but I am thinking that Anderson isn't calling them off. Maybe Brian isn't taking control.

That's what I wondered. Am I wrong, or is the centerfielder the "boss" of the outfield? Is BA being more tentative in that role than he could be? He might find it difficult to be issuing orders, in effect, to Pods and JD, both older, way more established players.

Huisj
07-19-2006, 09:50 PM
Is it being a dark cloud to look at the stats and see that Vazquez has a 6.98 ERA now since June began? Or that he's given up 69 hits in 49 innings over that time period? Sure, maybe he only made a few bad pitches tonight, but it's not like it's abnormal for him to give up this many runs in a start. Worrying about him right now is not just something that comes from him giving up that grand slam tonight, it comes from him basically being terrible for 2 months now. And maybe in all of those starts he only threw a few bad pitches, but the fact is he has been giving up tons of hits and tons of runs in just about every game for quite a while.

I feel like Vazquez kind of pitches the way you'd expect a really young pitcher who has good stuff but isn't quite ready for the big leagues to pitch. Ok, so some of those guys have big problems with walking lots of people, and that isn't his problem, but he's similar in that he'll cruise along easily and make hitters look bad with his great stuff for 3 or 4 innings, but then all of the sudden something happens and he collapses mentally and gets mashed. It always seems real sudden and quick that he's pitching fine, then he pitches horrible for about 10 minutes, and then he's ok again for a bit. And what that adds up to in the end is a very high ERA, which in turn leads to lost games.

Sure the offense sucked tonight too. Lots of things stunk tonight, and it equalled a loss. Last night, lots of things were great, and it equalled a win. Unfortuntely though, the trend lately has been that the starting pitching is not one of the things that goes right, and that is leading to a lot of losses whether the offense is good or bad on those nights.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:50 PM
With the catcher running home, and most of the hits that inning being weak, I totally agree with Uribe going home to keep it 2-1.

Don't forget the way Bonderman was throwing the ball.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:50 PM
Hillenbrand is a 1B/DH. We don't need anyone at that position. What the hell are you pissed at Cintron for? That guy has been a nice addition.

I don't want Myers. As I said, I'd be stunned if any of our starting five gets traded.
I'm not pissed at Cintron I was just saying his contributions as 1B/3B/DH backup would exceed that of Gload and Cintron. I like Alex alot I just used him to exagerate how much of a positive I feel Hillenbrand would be. Also I can name a few teams that he could start for. He should be still starting for Toronto but, everyone excuse the following language (please filters filter), if what is being said is true to as why he was released, the Blue Jays can go **** themselves and rot in ****ing hell.

infohawk
07-19-2006, 09:50 PM
But...but...wasn't that a hanging slider Monroe hit? I don't think that was a curve. At least it didn't look like a curve to me.
It looked pretty up-and-down to me. I would expect a slider to, well, slide.:D:

Mr. White Sox
07-19-2006, 09:50 PM
John Kruk finally said something stupid and returned back to "idiot" status in my book.

He said the Sox need a reliever (true), and would pursue Gordon (possible). He said they should trade McCarthy for him (lolz).

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:52 PM
How does that cost a run ????? it's 2-2, just makes the homer a 3 run shot.

It would have only been a 2-run shot. Uribe would have turned a double play and Monroe would have been up with 2 outs and a runner on third.

TaylorStSox
07-19-2006, 09:52 PM
I'm at work tonight, so I was watching the game on a TV from across the room. Didn't hear much volume. Might have been a blessing.

He wasn't blaming the umps tonight. How could he? Vazquez was getting 2 to 3 inches on the outside to RH. It's been a trend throughout the year though (Hawk, not Javy getting 2-3 inches)

JB98
07-19-2006, 09:52 PM
I'm not pissed at Cintron I was just saying his contributions as 1B/3B/DH backup would exceed that of Gload and Cintron. I like Alex alot I just used him to exagerate how much of a positive I feel Hillenbrand would be.

Why do we need a 1B/3B/DH backup? Thome, Konerko and Crede are going to play seven days a week for the most part.

Hillenbrand is a decent hitter, but there's just no spot for him on this team.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:53 PM
Is it being a dark cloud to look at the stats and see...

No, but I sure wish that you could read and comprehend what is considered "dark cloudism".

Mohoney
07-19-2006, 09:54 PM
Don't forget the way Bonderman was throwing the ball.

He was really on. Our only hope was to try and win it 2-1.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:54 PM
With the catcher running home, and most of the hits that inning being weak, I totally agree with Uribe going home to keep it 2-1.
Not only was it the catcher but didn't Pudge injury is knee when he slid into 3rd? That could have added to Juan's CORRECT decision.

veeter
07-19-2006, 09:54 PM
John Kruk finally said something stupid and returned back to "idiot" status in my book.

He said the Sox need a reliever (true), and would pursue Gordon (possible). He said they should trade McCarthy for him (lolz). The fact that guys on national tv are that stupid boggles the mind. When is the last time a set up man put a team over the top? Why the hell did we get Riske? Then next year you're in a worse situation. Kruk's logic is like saying, "Man my arm hurts...better go get foot surgery."

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 09:54 PM
Is it being a dark cloud to look at the stats and see that Vazquez has a 6.98 ERA now since June began? Or that he's given up 69 hits in 49 innings over that time period? Sure, maybe he only made a few bad pitches tonight, but it's not like it's abnormal for him to give up this many runs in a start. Worrying about him right now is not just something that comes from him giving up that grand slam tonight, it comes from him basically being terrible for 2 months now. And maybe in all of those starts he only threw a few bad pitches, but the fact is he has been giving up tons of hits and tons of runs in just about every game for quite a while.



You know something, I like your style....straight shootin with just a touch a stats...very nice.

The kid has skills.

infohawk
07-19-2006, 09:54 PM
McCarthy is going to save this staff, trust me. How do these guys get paid to say this crap. The Sox need to have Javy and McCarthy switch spots.
I'm officially in the "start Brandon McCarthy instead of Vazquez camp." I understand and respect the difference of opinion among my fellow Sox fans, but I really, really believe that Brandon, despite being young, would provide a stability to the rotation that would surprise a lot of people. He's young, hungry, has great stuff and has given us no indication that he is a head case.

Mr. White Sox
07-19-2006, 09:55 PM
It would have only been a 2-run shot. Uribe would have turned a double play and Monroe would have been up with 2 outs and a runner on third.

Even so, this is all based on the fallacy of preconceived outcomes.

Maybe if Mack catches that ball, Vazquez is all like "lolz Rob you are sooo good, I think I'll relax now!" and walks the next three batters, setting up a grand slam. Or Uribe turns a DP, then Vazquez gives up back-to-back HRs. Anything can happen in our alternate baseball games in our heads, but it's a shame the perfect game through 1/3 of an inning only played out in our minds.

Mohoney
07-19-2006, 09:56 PM
Why do we need a 1B/3B/DH backup? Thome, Konerko and Crede are going to play seven days a week for the most part.

Hillenbrand is a decent hitter, but there's just no spot for him on this team.

I would MUCH rather have Hillenbrand than Gload. Plus, Crede's going to need some days off with the back thing.

That said, I would rather have an OF that can play CF than Hillenbrand.

infohawk
07-19-2006, 09:57 PM
The fact that guys on national tv are that stupid boggles the mind. When is the last time a set up man put a team over the top? Why the hell did we get Riske? Then next year you're in a worse situation. Kruk's logic is like saying, "Man my arm hurts...better go get foot surgery." Krucker would trade Santana and Liriano for a Quarter Pounder With Cheese.

jenn2080
07-19-2006, 09:57 PM
anyone watching comcast sportsnet? javy is being interviewed right now. He is very uncomfortable being interviewed right now.

veeter
07-19-2006, 09:57 PM
I'm officially in the "start Brandon McCarthy instead of Vazquez camp." I understand and respect the difference of opinion among my fellow Sox fans, but I really, really believe that Brandon, despite being young, would provide a stability to the rotation that would surprise a lot of people. He's young, hungry, has great stuff and has given us no indication that he is a head case.When El Duke went down last year, in AUGUST, it was McCarthy who stepped up big time. Experience is not even in question here IMO.

Palehose13
07-19-2006, 09:57 PM
Even so, this is all based on the fallacy of preconceived outcomes.

Maybe if Mack catches that ball, Vazquez is all like "lolz Rob you are sooo good, I think I'll relax now!" and walks the next three batters, setting up a grand slam. Or Uribe turns a DP, then Vazquez gives up back-to-back HRs. Anything can happen in our alternate baseball games in our heads, but it's a shame the perfect game through 1/3 of an inning only played out in our minds.

I absolutely understand and agree with you. I was trying to explain to Patrick why Monroe's shot would have been a 2-run HR instead of a 3 run HR if Juan would have turned two...one less runner on base.

I am on record for liking Uribe's throw home.

getonbckthr
07-19-2006, 09:59 PM
Why do we need a 1B/3B/DH backup? Thome, Konerko and Crede are going to play seven days a week for the most part.

Hillenbrand is a decent hitter, but there's just no spot for him on this team.
Because you never know when Jim or Crede's back might flare up and need a day. As far as Paulie he'll need a day every once in a while. So with those situations out there and Hillenbrand probably able to come cheap who would you rather play to give Crede, Thome, or Konerko a day off? Hillenbrand, Cintron or gload

cheezheadsoxfan
07-19-2006, 09:59 PM
[quote=jenn2080]anyone watching comcast sportsnet? javy is being interviewed right now. He is very uncomfortable being interviewed right now.[/quote

Well hell, I would think so. What is he saying?]

jongarlandlover
07-19-2006, 09:59 PM
anyone watching comcast sportsnet? javy is being interviewed right now. He is very uncomfortable being interviewed right now.

i got too mad and turned the tv off. what'd he say?

ugh. that was terrible. i kept praying that ozzie would take him out. but noooooo. oy.

RadioheadRocks
07-19-2006, 10:00 PM
anyone watching comcast sportsnet? javy is being interviewed right now. He is very uncomfortable being interviewed right now.

Well that's too bad, isn't it?

CommanderPudge72
07-19-2006, 10:01 PM
anyone watching comcast sportsnet? javy is being interviewed right now. He is very uncomfortable being interviewed right now.

well, he should be 6.98 ERA since June...the guy has an issue..the only reason why he has 9 wins is because he has had the highest run support in the league...Javy wins the close ones...8-7, 9-8....ya know.