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View Full Version : Should we Block our competition?


getonbckthr
07-17-2006, 01:23 AM
All these rumors about Bobby Abreu going to 1 of the New York teams, Boston, Anaheim or Detroit has me thinking should we block them from getting him? Some people are saying the Yankees could get him for virtually nothing just by eating the contract. So why can't we do that. What i'm thinking is something along these lines:
Sox get: Abreu and Gordon
Phi get: Garcia, Fields, and Haegar.
This way we get our relief help, we get value for 1 of our starters, and we block teams we are in races with from getting better. Philly gets 2 contracts off their books, gets a solid starter, a definate upgrade at 3rd (Bell sucks), and Haegar has potential to be a solid MLB pitcher.
As far as lineup goes Abreu bats 6th in CF, AJ goes to 8th and Uribe 9th. Sure our defense takes a hit but we have Anderson on the bench to come in during the 7th or 8th as a replacement for Pods with Abreu moving to left. Gload goes where ever Charlotte, unemployment line who cares. Mackowiak is now the emergency Outfielder and a backup infielder. Our bullpen is much stronger.
Following the season we could look to move Abreu for whatever we think we would need. Maybe Abreu for Prior or Abreu and Vazquez for like Oswalt or someone similar with a team needing an offense kick start.

soxfanreggie
07-17-2006, 01:33 AM
You think Houston is going to give up Oswalt? I thought he would be there for the long haul. I'm also not a big fan of Prior. I think if the Phils wanted to get rid of Abreu, they could make that deal themselves.

DaleJRFan
07-17-2006, 01:42 AM
All these rumors about Bobby Abreu going to 1 of the New York teams, Boston, Anaheim or Detroit has me thinking should we block them from getting him? Some people are saying the Yankees could get him for virtually nothing just by eating the contract. So why can't we do that. What i'm thinking is something along these lines:
Sox get: Abreu and Gordon
Phi get: Garcia, Fields, and Haegar.
This way we get our relief help, we get value for 1 of our starters, and we block teams we are in races with from getting better. Philly gets 2 contracts off their books, gets a solid starter, a definate upgrade at 3rd (Bell sucks), and Haegar has potential to be a solid MLB pitcher.
As far as lineup goes Abreu bats 6th in CF, AJ goes to 8th and Uribe 9th. Sure our defense takes a hit but we have Anderson on the bench to come in during the 7th or 8th as a replacement for Pods with Abreu moving to left. Gload goes where ever Charlotte, unemployment line who cares. Mackowiak is now the emergency Outfielder and a backup infielder. Our bullpen is much stronger.
Following the season we could look to move Abreu for whatever we think we would need. Maybe Abreu for Prior or Abreu and Vazquez for like Oswalt or someone similar with a team needing an offense kick start.

Why block them?? How about just beating them... That seemed to work last year.

Britt Burns
07-17-2006, 01:47 AM
Don't think Abreu would work in center. At the very least, he would be a big downgrade defensively from BA. Not that I think Philly makes this deal, but if you could get him and Gordon for Pods, Fields, and Haeger/Tracey/broadway/Lumsden and a chunk of his contract, you could stick him in left and bat him leadoff, giving us a big upgrade in left at the plate and a huge upgrade defensively. I've been a huge Pods fan from the beginning, but he just isn't playing major-league caliber D. His throw home today was embarrassing

getonbckthr
07-17-2006, 02:00 AM
Why block them?? How about just beating them... That seemed to work last year.
From the looks of how Detroit is playing I really don't want them getting any stronger. As far as beating them we were embarressed by both the Red Sox and Yankees. Our pitching is average at best. The last thing we need is for 1 of those 3 teams to get stronger. Not to mention adding to our potent lineup helps make up for our average staff.

DaleJRFan
07-17-2006, 02:07 AM
From the looks of how Detroit is playing I really don't want them getting any stronger. As far as beating them we were embarressed by both the Red Sox and Yankees. Our pitching is average at best. The last thing we need is for 1 of those 3 teams to get stronger. Not to mention adding to our potent lineup helps make up for our average staff.

Wait, so you want to weaken the "average at best" Sox rotation by trading away Garcia and replace him with what?? McCarthy? McCarthy is no better than anyone in the Sox rotation.

Two things need to happen:
1. Starters need to pitch better.
2. Offense needs to get the job done in "game changing situations"

Blocking the Tigers from acquiring Abreu, etc will only create additional holes.

oeo
07-17-2006, 02:12 AM
From the looks of how Detroit is playing I really don't want them getting any stronger. As far as beating them we were embarressed by both the Red Sox and Yankees. Our pitching is average at best. The last thing we need is for 1 of those 3 teams to get stronger. Not to mention adding to our potent lineup helps make up for our average staff.
Uhm...our pitching is above average. They've struggled, but they're not "average at best". I hate when people say this bull****...come talk to me in September and we will see if they're still struggling.

getonbckthr
07-17-2006, 02:12 AM
Wait, so you want to weaken the "average at best" Sox rotation by trading away Garcia and replace him with what?? McCarthy? McCarthy is no better than anyone in the Sox rotation.


I'm assuming this comment includes Garcia. Mccarthy would do the same as Garcia is right now. except our bullpen would be stronger, and our offense will be stronger.

getonbckthr
07-17-2006, 02:20 AM
Uhm...our pitching is above average. They've struggled, but they're not "average at best". I hate when people say this bull****...come talk to me in September and we will see if they're still struggling.
Career wise yes our staff is above average but right now and this season it has only been average. Garland, even though he has looked better as of late, is not where he should be. Mark is going through a rough stretch that he should snap out of soon. Contreras has been good but not great since returning from injury. Garcia has decided 90 mph is to fast to throw anymore and is paying for that thought. Vazquez can't seem to avoid the bad inning. Add all that together and include a Yankee surge and the Tigers playing out of their ass and what do get? A team desperate for something to light a fire under their ass and wake them up. Getting of rid Politte is not that fire it was an obvious move. Making a big deal like I proposed is something that would send a message to the whole team, get your heads out of your asses and start playing to your capabilities. If you don't we will find someone that will.

DaleJRFan
07-17-2006, 02:25 AM
I'm assuming this comment includes Garcia. Mccarthy would do the same as Garcia is right now. except our bullpen would be stronger, and our offense will be stronger.

No he wouldn't.

This argument is in the 53 other ridiculous trade "idea" threads. I'm not in the mood to regurgitate what others have already said. The big gripe with Garcia is his "lack of velocity". Well, he throws 88-90, thats about the same as McCarthy. We've all seen that when McCarthy can't get his changeup over, he throws BP (see the Red Sox series).

The bottom line is that trading one of the 5 PROVEN starters in the middle of the season and replacing him with a rookie is a BAD IDEA. Besides, trading a starter and filling the rotation spot with McCarthy creates another bullpen hole, further weakening the team's biggest vulnerability.

Ugh.. I give up. :rolleyes:

getonbckthr
07-17-2006, 02:29 AM
No he wouldn't.

This argument is in the 53 other ridiculous trade "idea" threads. I'm not in the mood to regurgitate what others have already said. The big gripe with Garcia is his "lack of velocity". Well, he throws 88-90, thats about the same as McCarthy. We've all seen that when McCarthy can't get his changeup over, he throws BP (see the Red Sox series).

The bottom line is that trading one of the 5 PROVEN starters in the middle of the season and replacing him with a rookie is a BAD IDEA. Besides, trading a starter and filling the rotation spot with McCarthy creates another bullpen hole, further weakening the team's biggest vulnerability.

Ugh.. I give up. :rolleyes:
Well to discuss this post you made. You comment on how Mccarthy is throwing BP, well what is Freddy doing right now? Based on what I proposed that bullpen hole would be filled by Gordon. Who would you rather have right now in the pen Brandon or Flash?

Soxfanspcu11
07-17-2006, 02:33 AM
All these rumors about Bobby Abreu going to 1 of the New York teams, Boston, Anaheim or Detroit has me thinking should we block them from getting him? Some people are saying the Yankees could get him for virtually nothing just by eating the contract. So why can't we do that. What i'm thinking is something along these lines:
Sox get: Abreu and Gordon
Phi get: Garcia, Fields, and Haegar.
This way we get our relief help, we get value for 1 of our starters, and we block teams we are in races with from getting better. Philly gets 2 contracts off their books, gets a solid starter, a definate upgrade at 3rd (Bell sucks), and Haegar has potential to be a solid MLB pitcher.
As far as lineup goes Abreu bats 6th in CF, AJ goes to 8th and Uribe 9th. Sure our defense takes a hit but we have Anderson on the bench to come in during the 7th or 8th as a replacement for Pods with Abreu moving to left. Gload goes where ever Charlotte, unemployment line who cares. Mackowiak is now the emergency Outfielder and a backup infielder. Our bullpen is much stronger.
Following the season we could look to move Abreu for whatever we think we would need. Maybe Abreu for Prior or Abreu and Vazquez for like Oswalt or someone similar with a team needing an offense kick start.

Without trying to sound rude, these ideas are not very good at all.

1. I have no problem losing Haegar and Fields, but Garcia? Sure he pitched like **** yesterday, but he is an outstanding starting pitcher. He is very streaky, but when he is on, he is one of the best in the game. Also, do you really think the Sox are going to give up Freddy? I know that personal matters are not supposed to get in the way, but the guy is married to Ozzie's niece. I can't see Ozzie "okaying" his departure unless the Sox are getting something tremendous in return, IE, a total steal for the Sox.

2. I don't believe that Gordon is the type of relief help we are looking for. I could be wrong, but he strikes me as more of an inning eater then a bonified reliever, a guy that could come in in pressure situations and do the job. Also, I don't much like the idea of getting a reliever from the National League. We all know the National League is beyond weak, Gordon could be putting up good numbers in Philly, but once he comes here, they could skyrocket. If we are going to get relief help from another team, I would MUCH rather it come from an American League team.

3. I have a REAL problem with moving one of our best hitters in our lineup down to 8. AJ could be having the best season of his career. He is batting around .320 right now, and is SUPER clutch. Granted there is some truth to having a little "pop" lower in your lineup, but not AJ, there is no way he should be batting 8th.

4. Abreau is a great hitter, but once again, American League VS. National League. The vast difference between the 2 leagues right now is mind-blowing. I don't like the idea of taking a risk and "hoping" that Abreau will be able to put up the same numbers playing 100% of his games in the American League. In the end, who knows how much the change of scenary will take off his BA.

5. Anytime you have to say the following, "Sure our defense will take a hit", you should axe the trade idea RIGHT THERE. Unless you are trading Ross Gload straight up for Alex Rodriguez, you should NEVER sacrafice defense for offense. This idea brings us closer to the 2004 White Sox then ever before.

6. Oswalt is going NOWHERE, unless someone offers him more than he's worth.

7. Abreau for Prior?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:o: What on Earth are you talking about???? I wouldn't trade Augustin Monterro for Mark Prior! I'm not kidding! Have you seen this guys history? No, he WOULD NOT look good in a Sox uniform, unless we were able to pick him up for a 6 pack of Miller and a chaluppa from Taco Bell.

Again, not trying to be mean, I would just have to STRONGLY disagree with your proposals here.

getonbckthr
07-17-2006, 02:40 AM
7. Abreau for Prior?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:o: What on Earth are you talking about???? I wouldn't trade Augustin Monterro for Mark Prior! I'm not kidding! Have you seen this guys history? No, he WOULD NOT look good in a Sox uniform, unless we were able to pick him up for a 6 pack of Miller and a chaluppa from Taco Bell.


If you were to combine Prior with Herm Schneider and Don Cooper the sky is the limit for him. Remember Prior has Rothchild and who ever their trainer is this year to work with. Rothchild isn't a good coach and it seems like they have a new trainer each season.

Soxfanspcu11
07-17-2006, 03:05 AM
If you were to combine Prior with Herm Schneider and Don Cooper the sky is the limit for him. Remember Prior has Rothchild and who ever their trainer is this year to work with. Rothchild isn't a good coach and it seems like they have a new trainer each season.

I would agree with you ONLY if Prior had 1. Either come up with the Sox organization and been under the guidance of Schneider and Coop his entire MLB career, or 2. come from a competent organization that knew how to handle talent.

Prior had the potential to be one of the greats. The key word there is HAD. The cubs upper brass, and specifically the current manager, have destroyed that man's career. There is no telling what kind of damage the cubs have done to his arm.

We already know that he has been over-pitched and incorrectly used. And this was BEFORE he took that line drive off his elbow. As I said previously, there is NO WAY that ANY team should take a risk on this guy. Unless you are giving up ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return. What is Prior? 25 or 26? It's sad to say, but not only has this guy peaked as a pitcher, but he is on the downside of his career, and he is sliding down at a record pace.

We all know that Carrie Wood's career as a starting pitcher is over, and his very career maybe over as well. Wood is only going to be effective at the major league level as either a closer or middle-relief. (Probably not a closer since he takes a good inning or so to get into a groove). Mark Prior is on the exact same pace.

You just can not trust players, specifically pitchers from an organization that has no clue what so ever as to what they are doing. Couple that with a manager who doesn't understand pitch counts, and what do you have? You have yourself with a rotation that "potentially" could have been one of the best in the history of the game. But what's the reality? A pitching staff that is a laughing stock and 2 of the best prospects ever who have now turned into 2 of the biggest busts ever! And it's not like it was due to lack of talent or confidence. You can trace the failures of Carrie Wood and Mark Prior to ONE person, Dusty Baker. Their potentials were not only never met, their careers were ruined by an inept manager and organization, who, when presented with a difficult problem and situation reacted in the WORST POSSIBLE WAY.

How is Mark Prior doing this year so far by the way? I'm not sure of the exact statistics, but isin't he something like 0-5 with a 7-ish ERA?? Your talking about Freddy, but if you want to talk about a fastball that isin't exactly "fast", you need look no further than Mr. Prior. His once consistently 96-98mph fastball has now dropped to 90-91, 93 TOPS. On top of that, it has ZERO movement. He also can not throw an off-speed pitch over the plate to save his life. And you know what's even worse? This is ALL against the National League!!!! Do you have any idea what would be happening to this guy if he were to face American League hitters?!?!?!

I hope for Mark Prior's sake that he is not "done" as a MLB player, but it certainly is not looking good. Schneider and Coop are good, but they are not genies in a bottle, I don't believe that even they could save this sinking ship.

In all seriousness, the only chance that I would give Prior in a Sox uniform is the kind of chance that the Sox gave Hideo Nomo in spring training. If it were to work, then great, we all look like geniuses. If not, we never even notice.

Tragg
07-23-2006, 11:53 PM
All these rumors about Bobby Abreu going to 1 of the New York teams, Boston, Anaheim or Detroit has me thinking should we block them from getting him? Some people are saying the Yankees could get him for virtually nothing just by eating the contract. So why can't we do that. What i'm thinking is something along these lines:
Sox get: Abreu and Gordon
Phi get: Garcia, Fields, and Haegar.
No, you should not trade to block the competition.
Gordon has a severely inflated value in these parts...old and expensive...Atlanta just traded an A Ball pitcher for an old and not that expensive closer. The market for relievers has been extremely reasonable... Abreu doesn't shore up a weakness on this team...where's he going to play? We need to keep our top 5 prospects, absent some dazzling deal. This trade may keep Detroit from getting some players, but doesn't help us, and I think makes us a weaker club. And it destroys our payroll.

Chips
07-24-2006, 12:07 AM
All these rumors about Bobby Abreu going to 1 of the New York teams, Boston, Anaheim or Detroit has me thinking should we block them from getting him? Some people are saying the Yankees could get him for virtually nothing just by eating the contract. So why can't we do that. What i'm thinking is something along these lines:
Sox get: Abreu and Gordon
Phi get: Garcia, Fields, and Haegar.
This way we get our relief help, we get value for 1 of our starters, and we block teams we are in races with from getting better. Philly gets 2 contracts off their books, gets a solid starter, a definate upgrade at 3rd (Bell sucks), and Haegar has potential to be a solid MLB pitcher.
As far as lineup goes Abreu bats 6th in CF, AJ goes to 8th and Uribe 9th. Sure our defense takes a hit but we have Anderson on the bench to come in during the 7th or 8th as a replacement for Pods with Abreu moving to left. Gload goes where ever Charlotte, unemployment line who cares. Mackowiak is now the emergency Outfielder and a backup infielder. Our bullpen is much stronger.
Following the season we could look to move Abreu for whatever we think we would need. Maybe Abreu for Prior or Abreu and Vazquez for like Oswalt or someone similar with a team needing an offense kick start.

:rolleyes: Now I know why I usually stay out of this forum.