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MERPER
07-15-2006, 02:44 PM
Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team.... A great offense, which is the one thing the White Sox do have, can mask a lot of things.. Up until this point it has done so.. it has masked our extremely average pitching that is now flat-out BAD... and a below-average defense....

But, as we all know, pitching wins.... and when they can't score 5-6 runs EVERY SINGLE GAME we're going to lose....

This pitching is not playoff-caliber... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....

Chips
07-15-2006, 02:45 PM
:rolleyes:

MrRoboto83
07-15-2006, 02:48 PM
Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team.... A great offense, which is the one thing the White Sox do have, can mask a lot of things.. Up until this point it has done so.. it has masked our extremely average pitching that is now flat-out BAD... and a below-average defense....

But, as we all know, pitching wins.... and when they can't score 5-6 runs EVERY SINGLE GAME we're going to lose....

This pitching is not playoff-caliber... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....

Last time I checked the Sox were one of the best defensive teams in the league. Good Lord, couple of bad games and it is time to walk the plank? Give me a break!

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-15-2006, 02:49 PM
Back away from the ledge.

PLEASE...this is no different than the end of August/September run. So they're down to a team that trails them by 5 in thw WC race? The team with the highest payroll in baseball?? Puh-leeze.

Frankly Missing
07-15-2006, 02:49 PM
You might be a little flawed yourself. We are losing one game as we speak, this does not mean no playoffs.

I see you are an "aspiring journalist". Wow, pretty fast with the trigger finger..........who dies that remind you of?

Crede_Fan
07-15-2006, 02:49 PM
:rolleyes:
My god this is just like last august/september.

Crede_Fan
07-15-2006, 02:50 PM
Back away from the ledge.

PLEASE...this is no different than the end of August/September run. So they're down to a team that trails them by 5 in thw WC race? The team with the highest payroll in baseball?? Puh-leeze.


Wow just posted that.:redneck

Chips
07-15-2006, 02:50 PM
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/DB/122004/056600.jpg

thomas35forever
07-15-2006, 02:51 PM
:threadsucks

santo=dorf
07-15-2006, 02:52 PM
Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team.... A great offense, which is the one thing the White Sox do have, can mask a lot of things.. Up until this point it has done so.. it has masked our extremely average pitching that is now flat-out BAD... and a below-average defense....

But, as we all know, pitching wins.... and when they can't score 5-6 runs EVERY SINGLE GAME we're going to lose....

This pitching is not playoff-caliber... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....

The same Tigers that we are currently 5-1 against? Why not just post this in the game thread?

downstairs
07-15-2006, 02:54 PM
I agree!
Here's what I propose:
Konerko and Crede for Zambrano
Anderson and Thome for Wood and Prior (plus send them $10 mil in cash)
Garland, Burly, Contreras, Vasquez for Rowand
Then trade Rowand for Greg Maddux
Re-sign Shingo and trade him for Derrek Lee
Then do a three-way deal in which the Yankees and Red Sox give us Johnson and Shilling.
Then trade Johnson and Shilling for Bob Howry

MERPER
07-15-2006, 02:54 PM
:rolleyes:
My god this is just like last august/september.

The difference is last August/September we were up 15 games and were capable of having a 2-week meltdown and still pick it up to make the playoffs... we are not in first place.... and instead of holding or gaining ground on the team that is we are falling... we will be 4.5 back tonight, I guarantee it!

and don't bring up the wild card... all year long, you people on this board have said it is too early to focus on the wild card.. that being said, since the red sox and yanks are so much better than us we aren't going to hold a lead in the wild card standings for very long

A. Cavatica
07-15-2006, 02:57 PM
http://www.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/DB/122004/056600.jpg

You know, I believe the white-costumed gentlemen in this picture are playing cricket. Please find a more appropriate dark cloud image.

thomas35forever
07-15-2006, 02:58 PM
The difference is last August/September we were up 15 games and were capable of having a 2-week meltdown and still pick it up to make the playoffs... we are not in first place.... and instead of holding or gaining ground on the team that is we are falling... we will be 4.5 back tonight, I guarantee it!

and don't bring up the wild card... all year long, you people on this board have said it is too early to focus on the wild card.. that being said, since the red sox and yanks are so much better than us we aren't going to hold a lead in the wild card standings for very long
Great job analyzing the team. We haven't even played two series against either team yet. Why must you base our whole season on the last five games?

LITTLE NELL
07-15-2006, 03:00 PM
I agree 100% with original post. Pitching staff stinks right now. I posted about a month ago that our pitchers were spoiled by the great offense, and I was chastised my a lot of you out there. We need someone to go out there and pitch a shut out. How about McCarthy.

Chips
07-15-2006, 03:02 PM
:threadsucks

And let me add

:threadblows:

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-15-2006, 03:06 PM
Wow just posted that.:redneck

Great minds...don't post here. We did, though. :D:

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-15-2006, 03:07 PM
You know, I believe the white-costumed gentlemen in this picture are playing cricket. Please find a more appropriate dark cloud image.

Maybe he wishes he had a cricket bat to beat the thread originator?

Frankly Missing
07-15-2006, 03:13 PM
I agree 100% with original post. Pitching staff stinks right now. I posted about a month ago that our pitchers were spoiled by the great offense, and I was chastised my a lot of you out there. We need someone to go out there and pitch a shut out. How about McCarthy.

Oh, I see, " told you so" eh? You just won a fuzzy jelly bean.

Sox-o-matic
07-15-2006, 03:15 PM
You know, I believe the white-costumed gentlemen in this picture are playing cricket. Please find a more appropriate dark cloud image.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:SitZg2KaBGF2UM:www.themanbehindthemas k.com/straightjacket.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.themanbehindthemask.com/straightjacket.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t52558.html&h=480&w=393&sz=38&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=SitZg2KaBGF2UM:&tbnh=126&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dstraightjacket%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den %26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff)

I think this picture of a white-costumed gentleman is more appropriate for this thread.

The starting pitching has sucked in comparison to last year, even with a better staff, but I think it's only a matter of time before that all changes. There is no way this team can continue to play like this with the quality of arms on that staff.

My guess is there will be one guy to step it up big time and the others will begin to follow suit. I think it's going to be Garland.

102605
07-15-2006, 03:15 PM
I agree!
Here's what I propose:
Konerko and Crede for Zambrano
Anderson and Thome for Wood and Prior (plus send them $10 mil in cash)
Garland, Burly, Contreras, Vasquez for Rowand
Then trade Rowand for Greg Maddux
Re-sign Shingo and trade him for Derrek Lee
Then do a three-way deal in which the Yankees and Red Sox give us Johnson and Shilling.
Then trade Johnson and Shilling for Bob Howry
That would give the Cubs a rotation of Garland Buehrle Contreras Vazquez Johnson and Schilling. Maybe we could keep one of them? Perhaps Buehrle to throw batting practice?

nsolo
07-15-2006, 03:21 PM
I agree 100% with original post. Pitching staff stinks right now. I posted about a month ago that our pitchers were spoiled by the great offense, and I was chastised my a lot of you out there. We need someone to go out there and pitch a shut out. How about McCarthy.

I'll stand by that, sort of. A shutout would be nice, but the big innings by opposing teams are hard to watch. Overall, our pitching isn't what we're used to. Also, some poor fielding in today's game.

Yes, I know good defense helps prevent the big innings, but Mark's been giving up too runs through solid hits. Has anyone figured out if he's tipping his pitches again, or did I miss that thread.

Sox-o-matic
07-15-2006, 03:28 PM
I'll stand by that, sort of. A shutout would be nice, but the big innings by opposing teams are hard to watch. Overall, our pitching isn't what we're used to. Also, some poor fielding in today's game.

Yes, I know good defense helps prevent the big innings, but Mark's been giving up too runs through solid hits. Has anyone figured out if he's tipping his pitches again, or did I miss that thread.

As far as I can tell, Mark's problem is more of the 'leaving 88mph fastballs up and over the middle to outer part of the plate' variety.

But who knows, maybe teams are stealing signs again.

Fenway
07-15-2006, 03:33 PM
I've seen this exact thread on Red Sox and Yankees boards.

Parrothead
07-15-2006, 03:33 PM
:darkclouds:
Dark clouds unite ! This pitching staff has me worried !

TornLabrum
07-15-2006, 03:34 PM
:darkclouds::darkcloud:

Sox-o-matic
07-15-2006, 03:34 PM
I've seen this exact thread on Red Sox and Yankees boards.

So?

Patrick134
07-15-2006, 03:37 PM
The difference is last August/September we were up 15 games and were capable of having a 2-week meltdown and still pick it up to make the playoffs... we are not in first place.... and instead of holding or gaining ground on the team that is we are falling... we will be 4.5 back tonight, I guarantee it!

and don't bring up the wild card... all year long, you people on this board have said it is too early to focus on the wild card.. that being said, since the red sox and yanks are so much better than us we aren't going to hold a lead in the wild card standings for very long

We're playing AT one of the best teams in the league...the Tigers are HOSTING the worst team in baseball. Holding at 2.5 out would have been a miracle. Any ground lost this weekend will be made up soon.

alohafri
07-15-2006, 03:37 PM
:darkclouds:
Dark clouds unite ! This pitching staff has me worried !

I haven't been happy with the way our starters have been pitching over the past couple of weeks. Even when Contreras was on his streak, it was scary for most of those starts. And it doesn't seem like the All-Star Break has helped. I need to take these guys out for beers! Make them hungover before their next starts. MAKE them focus!:gulp:

app2686
07-15-2006, 03:46 PM
His assessment isn't necessarily incorrect.

I mean, without question the White Sox will make the playoffs this year.

However, as for their chances of advancing far? That is in question because of poor pitching.

Seriously, if you look at the numbers, this is an over-rated pitching staff.

Buehrle has given up 23 runs in his last three starts. I understand that every pitcher has his poor outings, but 23 in his last three? And now his season ERA is almost 4.5, which is average.

Conteras hasn't been the same dominating pitcher since his stint on the DL. If anything, his undefeated streak was maintained far longer than it should have, getting ridiculously LUCKY sometimes after falling behind in a few games. His ERA has climbed 2 points since his first start off the DL against the Cubs. Nonetheless, 9 - 1 with a 3.48 ERA is impressive.

Also, let's not forget that Garland (although he's starting to turn things around), Garcia, and Vazquez have ERAs around 5, which are above league average.

And we all know the bullpen is suspect this year which explains all the trade rumors we are hearing currently.

Based on how they have played so far, and by precedent, I really like the Tigers chances of winning the WS this year because they are doing exactly what the White Sox did last year: pitcing well. They have a league leading team ERA of 3.5 and 11 shutouts. Compare this to the Sox's team ERA of 4.60 which I think is more or less league average.

Sure the Sox are 5 - 1 against Tigers thus far, but that is misleading since the first three of those wins came off a sweep in the beginning of the season when the Tigers weren't exactly the same team they are now. The upcoming series will be far more telling.

I apologize for this lengthy post, but I was just trying to give substance to what I'm saying. I'm not ripping on the Sox nor am I panicking, just trying to be realistic and objective.

All told, this offensive explosion has carried them far and will continue to do so. But let's start pitcing better please!

SouthSide_HitMen
07-15-2006, 03:53 PM
the red sox and yanks are so much better than us we aren't going to hold a lead in the wild card standings for very long

Well you have two options for teams to root for. Have at it. :rolleyes:

Soxworldchamps
07-15-2006, 03:54 PM
Oh em gee! We lost a game! This team SUCKS!!!!


Ok, I see what you're saying about our pitching staff and I agree that our starters have been pretty roughed up recently. But even so we have been winning, I mean, we're in second place. There is really nothing much to complain about with this team.

Chisox003
07-15-2006, 03:54 PM
PANIC IS GROWING!!!!!
:wired::wired::wired::wired::wired:

SouthSide_HitMen
07-15-2006, 03:56 PM
And let me add

:threadblows:

Don't bring Louis Armstrong into this nonsense.

Louis is too good to be blowing his trumpet in this thread.

Crede_Fan
07-15-2006, 04:03 PM
Cliffy is flawed.

zmz723
07-15-2006, 04:03 PM
But who knows, maybe teams are stealing signs again.

according to the cardinals, that is correct

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-15-2006, 04:05 PM
according to the cardinals, that is correct

**** the cardinals

SoxEd
07-15-2006, 04:06 PM
Well, getting blown out by the Yankees certainly sucks, and this looks like being two games in a row that we've lost.

We also failed to take a series from Boston.

Still, this does not mean that the Sky Is Falling.

Buehrle seems to be having a poor year (by his standards), but with half the year left, I'm still backing Cooper to be able to sort him out.

As others have posted in other threads, IMO the main problem we have this year is that we are the reigning champions.
i.e. not just our Divisional rivals, but EVERY other team is now going to up its game when facing us, as we are no longer the 'other' crap team from Chicago.

This is why it's hard to Repeat on the World Series.

I agree that our Pitching needs to improve, but I'm not yet ready to slit my wrists or give up on the 06 Sox.

Thread Hijack:


You know, I believe the white-costumed gentlemen in this picture are playing cricket. Please find a more appropriate dark cloud image.


Ah, but imagine The Horror if you were forced to watch Cricket instead of Baseball....
:redneck

nasox
07-15-2006, 04:07 PM
This team is not flawed. But what is wrong with Buehrle? He does not look good.

nsolo
07-15-2006, 04:12 PM
And let me add

:threadblows:

Hey, nice pictures, but we were talking pitchers. We just seem flat, relying too much on the long ball. We've given up too many high scoring games in the past few weeks, and at present, when the starting pitching fails, so does the bullpen.

Also, because we're looking too much for the home run to bail us out, I see the team moving away from last years ability to manufacture runs. Recently, we look more like the '04 team than that of '05.

zmz723
07-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Well, the All-Star Break has come and gone. Aren't our starters supposed to "turn it on" now? Or "get into a groove" or something? Hasn't Coop fixed them yet?

Chicken Dinner
07-15-2006, 04:19 PM
One thing is for sure. The USS Cliff Politte has sunk and the USS Buehrle is taking on a lot of water.

chisoxmike
07-15-2006, 04:23 PM
The starting pitching blows right now. I don't consider that the entire team, so I would concider right now the pitching is flawed. They better figure it out fast. 4 of the starters have ERA's over 4. 3 of them have them over 4.90. The Sox are throwing out Garland, Vazquez, and Contreras against the Tigers next week. :unsure: We could have a problem by Friday if we don't pitch to our capabilities.

LongLiveFisk
07-15-2006, 04:24 PM
I've seen this exact thread on Red Sox and Yankees boards.

In regards to the White Sox, or in regards to their own teams?

ShoelessJoeS
07-15-2006, 04:25 PM
The pitching has lots of room to improve, yes....the team is flawed, no. There are still 2 1/2 months left to play. RELAX!

DachnoPiitu
07-15-2006, 04:26 PM
WAKE UP the pitching and defense... and BEAT THOSE YANKS tomorrow :(:

nsolo
07-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Yeah, Yeah!!! I know!!! Only two games past the break and this old Sox fan is being too negative. Let me have it!

But, being a Sox fan, I would hate to be confused with the never ending rays of sunshice that northsiders emit no matter the reality of play within their eroding shrine. Sox fans, to my knowledge, have always been more realistic, if not pessimistic.

Lately we rather suck. Way too may double digit runs scored against us, poor defense, and the inability to make runs happen. Too much reliance on the long ball. Stolen bases and moving a runner along don't seem to be factor.

I also know that we are playing the Yankees while the Tigers are playing the Royals, but our record against the Royals this year should be better.

Say what you want, I'm still nervous.

Jjav829
07-15-2006, 04:28 PM
Yes, this team is flawed. But every team is flawed. Our pitching is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. It is getting progressively worse every month, particularly the starters.

Runs allowed by month:
April: 96
May: 128
June: 131
July (thus far): 80 (which puts us on pace to allow approximately 180 runs this month)

Four of our starters have basically gotten worse each month (with July being incomplete as of now). Garland is the only exception as he has improved every month.

It's definitely a concern. How much of a concern is a matter of opinion. We know Buehrle will improve unless he's hiding an injury. He's too good to pitch like this for too long. Garcia and Vazquez, who knows. Guys have down years. Maybe this is a bad half for Freddy, maybe it's just a down year. We'll see. I expect some improvement, but how much I can't say.

I think Kenny will do something. Schmidt is unlikely since the Giants are still in the race. Guys like Zito and Willis don't appear to be available at this time. It may very well be that Kenny's effort to improve the rotation doesn't come from outside the organization, but from our very own bullpen. Maybe he decides that McCarthy is ready and gives him a chance to start, jettisoning Vazquez/Garcia for some bullpen help and prospects.

MrRoboto83
07-15-2006, 04:28 PM
Yeah, Yeah!!! I know!!! Only two games past the break and this old Sox fan is being too negative. Let me have it!

But, being a Sox fan, I would hate to be confused with the never ending rays of sunshice that northsiders emit no matter the reality of play within their eroding shrine. Sox fans, to my knowledge, have always been more realistic, if not pessimistic.

Lately we rather suck. Way too may double digit runs scored against us, poor defense, and the inability to make runs happen. Too much reliance on the long ball. Stolen bases and moving a runner along don't seem to be factor.

I also know that we are playing the Yankees while the Tigers are playing the Royals, but our record against the Royals this year should be better.

Say what you want, I'm still nervous.

Jump the ledge, see if I care.

ShoelessJoeS
07-15-2006, 04:29 PM
The starting pitching blows right now. I don't consider that the entire team, so I would concider right now the pitching is flawed. They better figure it out fast. 4 of the starters have ERA's over 4. 3 of them have them over 4.90. The Sox are throwing out Garland, Vazquez, and Contreras against the Tigers next week. :unsure: We could have a problem by Friday if we don't pitch to our capabilities.Actually Mike, those are the 3 pitchers I'd like to see going against the kitties.....well at least Garland and Contreras.

SOXfnNlansing
07-15-2006, 04:29 PM
:darkclouds:

We'll have to deal with the dark clouds 'til we win a few in a row:rolleyes:

chisoxmike
07-15-2006, 04:30 PM
If any of the starters are traded, I would hope its Vazquez.

cheeses_h_rice
07-15-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm really disappointed that the Sox have **** the bed against two of the teams we may face in the playoffs, over the past 5 games. But what bothers me more is seeing ol' reliable Mark Buehrle struggling so badly his last 3 starts.

I wonder if he's hurt, or just tired.

Anyway, it's "just" 4 of 5 we've lost...but at the same time our Wild Card lead has shrunk considerably due to who we're facing.

Hopefully it's just some doldrums and tomorrow they'll come out swinging.

BeviBall!
07-15-2006, 04:30 PM
If a poster jumped off the ledge, and no one was around, would anyone care?

Looks like the answer is no.

Chisox003
07-15-2006, 04:31 PM
A new panic thread, but one that manages to even work in a comparison to the Cubs...

That counts for something, ya?

SABRSox
07-15-2006, 04:31 PM
I'm really disappointed that the Sox have **** the bed against two of the teams we may face in the playoffs, over the past 5 games. But what bothers me more is seeing ol' reliable Mark Buehrle struggling so badly his last 3 starts.

I wonder if he's hurt, or just tired.

Anyway, it's "just" 4 of 5 we've lost...but at the same time our Wild Card lead has shrunk considerably due to who we're facing.

Hopefully it's just some doldrums and tomorrow they'll come out swinging.

Mark just doesn't seem to have the control this season. But I'm not worried. As long as the team shows up for the games against Detroit...

StockdaleForVeep
07-15-2006, 04:34 PM
:prozac

viagracat
07-15-2006, 04:36 PM
This is starting to remind me of this:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=56913

:rolleyes:

MrRoboto83
07-15-2006, 04:41 PM
This is starting to remind me of this:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=56913

:rolleyes:

The Beginning of the End in July:o:

rowand33
07-15-2006, 04:43 PM
Mark just doesn't seem to have the control this season. But I'm not worried. As long as the team shows up for the games against Detroit...

These games against the AL East are just as important as the games against Detroit.

It's been half a season and we're still hoping for a few guys to get it together.

There's a difference between being a dark cloud and being realistic. I usually see dark clouds as people who worry about nothing. But we have some serious problems that we didn't have last year.

I don't think anderson is one of them anymore, but the bullpen and starting staff both have some big issues.

we're a lot like the Red Sox last year. Great offense and bad pitching. Are we a playoff team? Yes. Are we a world series team? On paper we are, but unless the pitching gets better the answer to that question is a flat no.

MarySwiss
07-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Really, people! Please remember that last year at this time, we had an indecent lead and watched it melt away in the second half. I refuse to worry as long as winning the first half does NOT qualify a team for the playoffs.

Lip Man 1
07-15-2006, 05:23 PM
Mary:

Point well taken but it's also been three and a half months and except for a stretch in April and a longer stretch in June they simply haven't been playing up to par.

If they couldn't do better then I wouldn't be concerned but in point of fact with the talent on this club they simply shouldn't be going into these funks.

That's a fact.

Lip

nsolo
07-15-2006, 05:25 PM
Jump the ledge, see if I care.

Great come back, Potsie! I'm positive that you wouldn't care, so why jump to validate it?

This being a message board that serves White Sox fans, I don't think I've come across such lack of a common good as I have here, this includes the newsgroups. I will take care in my statement though, because the last time I said my peace against a holier than thou "church elder", I was banned for a week.

I was hoping to start some honest discussion on the less than impressive play I've seen on the field this past few weeks. Yet, as seems the case more often than not, when someone expresses concern that seems negative, their bullied into submission where any chance the thread might of allowed either a chance to vent or create positve discussion is denied.

There are too many examples within these boards where someone's opinion is meet with the likes of the above.

Let me quess, the response will be akin to the redneck bumper stickers popular in the early '70's, "America, Love it or Leave it!".

The Sox did suffer a terrible month of August in '05, but they had a great lead in the division before it stared. This year, we don't enjoy the same. Thus my concern that if we don't start playing better, we will be screwed.

I'm interested in any trade talks. What is the latest that anyone has heard that might improve our pitching staff. Would we have to give up some of your present pitchers, and, whats your opinion on the proposed rumors?

SoxEd
07-15-2006, 05:51 PM
I will take care in my statement though, because the last time I said my peace against a holier than thou "church elder", I was banned for a week.

What happened you last time you said your piece?

(Sorry, but being one of the site's Chartered Grammar Bores I couldn't resist the temptation.)
:wink:



I was hoping to start some honest discussion on the less than impressive play I've seen on the field this past few weeks. Yet, as seems the case more often than not, when someone expresses concern that seems negative they're bullied into submission...

Having just re-read this Thread to check my initial impression, it seems to me that most of the discussion in it is just that - at least as far as the points you yourself have raised (which you did in a sensible manner), with only the one 'knee-jerk response' that might be described as 'bullying'.



There are too many examples within these boards where someone's opinion is meet with the likes of the above.

In my experience of this site, the only posts that are met with replies of a vituperative or castigatory nature are the ones whose phrasing marks them out as examples of a poster typing before engaging their brain, or as obvious trolling in an attempt to provoke a forthright emotional response.

That sort of crap happens everywhere, and my experience of WSI is that it happens less on here than pretty much everywhere else - because the Mods won't put up with it.


The Sox did suffer a terrible month of August in '05, but they had a great lead in the division before it stared. This year, we don't enjoy the same. Thus my concern that if we don't start playing better, we will be screwed.

This is another example of what I'd call a sensible, questioning, post - and one that will spark sensible debate.

I'd be surprised if anyone started attacking you for posting anything in that matter.

Still this is an Internet forum, so no doubt some genius will now emerge from the woodwork to prove me wrong.

Finally, to actually address the point you're making, whilst I agree with your assessment of the team's current standard of play, I still say that it's too early to start panicking, and that enough time remains in the Season (and that there's enough talent, experience, and desire in the Clubhouse) for the Sox to sort themselves out and get in to the Post-Season crapshoot.

Lip Man 1
07-15-2006, 05:56 PM
What is bothering me the most about this season are two areas:

1. The Sox don't seem to have a killer instinct against teams with losing records.

2. The Sox amazingly are having problems with their fundamentals. I thought this was solved after Manager Gandhi left. Suddenly they can't bunt, they are failing to cover bases, dropping perfect throws and just look at last Sunday's game for baserunning blunders.

Something to keep in mind folks....Sheffield and Matsui MAY be back for the stretch run for the Yankees (regarding the wild card race...)

And Detroit closes the season with six of their last nine with their favorite whipping boys the Royals and they finish at home.

The last week the Sox go to Cleveland and Minnesota.

My conclusion: If the Sox aren't in first by September 20th they probably aren't going to be.

Lip

QCIASOXFAN
07-15-2006, 05:56 PM
The Beginning of the End in July:o::rolling: Thats what it seems like. Of course there is some cause for concern, but some people need to take a deep breath and settle down.

MrRoboto83
07-15-2006, 05:57 PM
Great come back, Potsie! I'm positive that you wouldn't care, so why jump to validate it?

This being a message board that serves White Sox fans, I don't think I've come across such lack of a common good as I have here, this includes the newsgroups. I will take care in my statement though, because the last time I said my peace against a holier than thou "church elder", I was banned for a week.

I was hoping to start some honest discussion on the less than impressive play I've seen on the field this past few weeks. Yet, as seems the case more often than not, when someone expresses concern that seems negative, their bullied into submission where any chance the thread might of allowed either a chance to vent or create positve discussion is denied.

There are too many examples within these boards where someone's opinion is meet with the likes of the above.

Let me quess, the response will be akin to the redneck bumper stickers popular in the early '70's, "America, Love it or Leave it!".

The Sox did suffer a terrible month of August in '05, but they had a great lead in the division before it stared. This year, we don't enjoy the same. Thus my concern that if we don't start playing better, we will be screwed.

I'm interested in any trade talks. What is the latest that anyone has heard that might improve our pitching staff. Would we have to give up some of your present pitchers, and, whats your opinion on the proposed rumors?


It seems to me whenever the Sox loose a couple of games, the negativity grows. I don't think this team needs much help. The pitching staff will improve. Garland has improved, everyone wanted his head on a platter the first 2 months of this season. What happens if the Sox sweep Detroit this week? Once again all the pistols will be put back in the gun safes.

Edit: I wasn't trying to attack you, I was just down on all the negative threads that were started in like 2 mins time. Sorry if I offended you, I overreacted.

Lip Man 1
07-15-2006, 06:09 PM
Roboto:

Your assuming the staff will improve. Will Politte? How about the rest of the bullpen? Will the starters suddenly get their second wind?

These are legit questions that right now I don't have an answer for but to assume ALL those areas will get better is assuming a lot don't you think?

Lip

MrRoboto83
07-15-2006, 06:12 PM
Roboto:

Your assuming the staff will improve. Will Politte? How about the rest of the bullpen? Will the starters suddenly get their second wind?

These are legit questions that right now I don't have an answer for but to assume ALL those areas will get better is assuming a lot don't you think?

Lip

Consider me a optimistic person Lip, but you are right, there are a lot of questions that will need answered. The first step taken today, Cliff Politte is gone.

MarySwiss
07-15-2006, 06:14 PM
Mary:

Point well taken but it's also been three and a half months and except for a stretch in April and a longer stretch in June they simply haven't been playing up to par.

If they couldn't do better then I wouldn't be concerned but in point of fact with the talent on this club they simply shouldn't be going into these funks.

That's a fact.

Lip

Lip,

I absolutely agree; records and standings be damned, this is the best (read: most talented) team in baseball.

That said, they need to pull it together. But I'd be a lot more worried if it were early September rather than mid-July.

Let's hope that, come early September, I don't have to eat my words.

Mary

SouthSide_HitMen
07-15-2006, 06:26 PM
These are legit questions that right now I don't have an answer for but to assume ALL those areas will get better is assuming a lot don't you think?

Lip

There is a difference from showing concern or questioning if everything will pan out and

Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team...our extremely average pitching that is now flat-out BAD... and a below-average defense. ...I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs .... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS

This is what people are responding to here.

Showing concern is fine.

Chicken Little comments that the White Sox suck and are eliminated are bogus.

digdagdug23
07-15-2006, 06:32 PM
The difference is last August/September we were up 15 games and were capable of having a 2-week meltdown and still pick it up to make the playoffs... we are not in first place.... and instead of holding or gaining ground on the team that is we are falling... we will be 4.5 back tonight, I guarantee it!

and don't bring up the wild card... all year long, you people on this board have said it is too early to focus on the wild card.. that being said, since the red sox and yanks are so much better than us we aren't going to hold a lead in the wild card standings for very long


AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Oh My God, help me help me!!!!!!!!!!!!

:chickenlittle

Also, who are "you people"?

MarySwiss
07-15-2006, 06:36 PM
Also, who are "you people"?

Count me as one of "you people." And IMO, it is WAY too early to even think about the wild card.

oeo
07-15-2006, 06:42 PM
Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team.... A great offense, which is the one thing the White Sox do have, can mask a lot of things.. Up until this point it has done so.. it has masked our extremely average pitching that is now flat-out BAD... and a below-average defense....

But, as we all know, pitching wins.... and when they can't score 5-6 runs EVERY SINGLE GAME we're going to lose....

This pitching is not playoff-caliber... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....
You know, you'd think the championship would change Sox fans just a little bit, just a tiny bit. But, I guess not...they're still the same worry-worts they always were. We finally have a GREAT team, probably the best in baseball, and you're still freaking out.

For once, Sox fans, stop worrying about everything, and enjoy the season. There's still a ton of baseball to be played, so stop freaking out and relax for once. We're going to win this division, so enjoy the season while it lasts instead of getting all stressed out over a couple of losses.

digdagdug23
07-15-2006, 06:43 PM
Count me as one of "you people." And IMO, it is WAY too early to even think about the wild card.

Oh, I agree, I am one of those people, as well. But what really frosts my cookies is when everyone with an opinion that skews even slightly from a working theory are grouped together and crucified on one stake. I hardly think that this series with the Yankees qualifies as an urgent need to "do something now!!", there are issues that need to be adressed, and I feel relatively safe in saying that they are, and will be. Ozzie, Coop, Walker, Williams, etc., have given me no reason whatsoever to doubt that what can be done will be done. That little thing they pulled off last season is validation for my trust.

However, if being grouped in as a "you people" with Mary, count me in. :D:

jabrch
07-15-2006, 06:44 PM
It amazes me how negative people get over a stretch of 2, 4, 6 or whatever games. This team in one of the best teams in baseball. Management has prooven adept at adding pieces to improve the team. Ownership is clearly committed to winning. It seems only the fans and the media panic every time we slump for a few days.

Newbies doing it are easy to ignore. It's the people who really should know better than to get their panties in a bunch after a bad stretch that really blow my mind.

Geez folks...there are probably 25+ teams that would swap rosters, right away, without thinking twice. There are probably 20+ teams that would swap farm systems, right away, without thinking twice.

Here's the funny part - if we win tomorrow and win 2 of 3 in Detroit, the same dopes will stop bitching for a week, only to start up right away if we lose 2 of 3 to the Twins or the Os. Some of you must be completely insane if you go up/down so much based on such small stretches of play.

TDog
07-15-2006, 06:48 PM
... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....

I'm glad you're not the GM.

oeo
07-15-2006, 06:51 PM
It amazes me how negative people get over a stretch of 2, 4, 6 or whatever games. This team in one of the best teams in baseball. Management has prooven adept at adding pieces to improve the team. Ownership is clearly committed to winning. It seems only the fans and the media panic every time we slump for a few days.

Newbies doing it are easy to ignore. It's the people who really should know better than to get their panties in a bunch after a bad stretch that really blow my mind.

Geez folks...there are probably 25+ teams that would swap rosters, right away, without thinking twice. There are probably 20+ teams that would swap farm systems, right away, without thinking twice.

Here's the funny part - if we win tomorrow and win 2 of 3 in Detroit, the same dopes will stop bitching for a week, only to start up right away if we lose 2 of 3 to the Twins or the Os. Some of you must be completely insane if you go up/down so much based on such small stretches of play.
The problem is, the Tigers are playing way over their heads. And as much as many of you think this is the Tigers, think again. That team is yet to hit a bad stretch, they're not invincible. We thought the Sox were invincible last year, and they almost blew a 15-game lead. The Tigers aren't going to fall off the face of the Earth, but they are going to come back to Earth.

That Tiger rotation is not that good, I don't care how many times you tell me it is. Everyone in that rotation is mediocre, and have pitched like Cy Youngs all year...it won't last. The Sox will win the division, so relax and enjoy it.

MarySwiss
07-15-2006, 06:55 PM
Oh, I agree, I am one of those people, as well. But what really frosts my cookies is when everyone with an opinion that skews even slightly from a working theory are grouped together and crucified on one stake. I hardly think that this series with the Yankees qualifies as an urgent need to "do something now!!", there are issues that need to be adressed, and I feel relatively safe in saying that they are, and will be. Ozzie, Coop, Walker, Williams, etc., have given me no reason whatsoever to doubt that what can be done will be done. That little thing they pulled off last season is validation for my trust.

However, if being grouped in as a "you people" with Mary, count me in. :D:

Thanks. Maybe I should run for office. :smile:

Seriously digdagdug, I agree that the people on this site are entitled to express their opinions--absolutely. But then they should be prepared to defend their opinions, and it would be nice if those opinions were based upon facts, rather than some "we suck; let's trade everybody for nobody" mentality.

The fact remains, we won the WS last year with a team that was not as talented as this one. So let's play it out and see what happens.

Dan H
07-15-2006, 07:43 PM
Maybe the pitching staff has the ability to turn things around this year, but I'm still waiting. I know the starters have good records, but those records have been boosted by great hitting. Plain and simple, this doesn't look anywhere like last year's staff, and we are past the midway point. This is no little slump.

People make comparisions to last year's slump and say not to worry, but let's not forget the team lost 13 1/2 games in the standings at one point. I don't think that will happen this year, because Detroit will go through its down period, too.

However, the pitching has been bad from opening day. It would be interesting to see how many times the Sox have given up runs in double figures. Too many for my taste.

If it was just one pitcher, there would be no need to worry. But right now the starting rotation is not doing it from top to bottom. There is no reason to panic yet, but there is a need for a sense of urgency. If you asked someone on the White Sox, they would tell you the same thing.

The White Sox won't win this year just because they won last year. They still can, but I would like to see a string of games where the starter doesn't give up 5 or 6 by the sixth, starting with Garcia against the Yankees in the last game of the series.

nsolo
07-15-2006, 07:58 PM
What happened you last time you said your piece?



Well, as long as grammer is being questioned, the following link will support my original spelling of "peace" instead of "piece". Both can be argued to be correct. http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/156.html

Yet, what do you mean when you state "What happened you last time you said your piece?" I think you meant "What happened the last time your said your piece/peace, correct?

Lip Man 1
07-15-2006, 08:23 PM
OEO:

You keep saying the Tigers aren't that good and all I keep seeing is them winning.

If the Sox fall behind by a sizable amount they'll be put in a position where they have to run the table in head to head meetings with them and that's a long shot at best.

After 3 1/2 months, in my mind, the Tigers ARE that good. Wishing otherwsie doesn't change that fact.

The burden is now on the Sox to stop making the mental mistakes, stop taking bad teams for granted losing games to them, and start ripping off wins by the bunches.

If they do that, they'll be in fine shape division- wise by mid September. If they don't, then let's hope Sheffield and Matsui don't return for the Yankees in September because unfortunately nothing is guaranteed especially a playoff spot.

Oh Dan just FYI the Sox have already surpassed last years total of double digit games allowed, right now it's happened 11 times. They've also had 2 games with 9 runs allowed.

Lip

spiffie
07-15-2006, 08:36 PM
Buehrle: 2006: 4.02, Career: 3.67
Vazquez: 2006: 5.07, Career: 4.33
Garland: 2006: 5.37, Career: 4.52
Contreras: 2006: 3.48, Career: 4.11
Garcia: 2006: 4.91, Career: 4.00

The one good thing to take from this is that 4 out of 5 pitchers are above their career averages and theoretically have room for improvement. Of course in the case of Vazquez his career ERA may not be as relevant as his last 3 years, in which case he's right around his average. But Garland is having his worst year since he came up in 2000, so there is reason to hope he will improve. If this is just an isolated bump in the road for Buehrle, and Garcia and Garland can improve to their career averages then we should look better in the second half.

Law11
07-15-2006, 08:42 PM
Everything is fine...

..Our starters give us a strong 5 with regularity and are usually at 100+ by the sixth..

It just seems very , Blah right now for lack of a better word.

Need to get this boat righted NOW. The last thing anyone wants to see is us
down 6-7 games heading into next weekend's home stand.. Then we will be looking at the WC as a real possibility.

Cmon guys snap out of it. You are in a funk and need to get out of it quick.
Youre 5-7 in July... Just bad ball since the Bosox series.. A small stretch but
laying an egg in big games has never been this teams forteŽ.

nsolo
07-15-2006, 10:23 PM
Last year we won a ton of one run games. Maybe (underline the "maybe" part) in '05 our pitchers were more focused due to the fact that they couldn't rely so heavily on the offense. In '05, we did have the same capability of coming from behind, but not from too far behind.

This year, with our offense, no deficient is that far out of question from surpassing. With that in mind, maybe (there's that word again) our pitchers feel that the runs they surrender are of smaller importance.

This post is a reach, but I'm just trying to keep the thread going.

RadioheadRocks
07-15-2006, 10:31 PM
... but I'm just trying to keep the thread going.

Haven't we beaten the proverbial dead horse enough with this thread???

Jurr
07-15-2006, 10:40 PM
This is the most bleedingly pathetic excuse for an intelligent thread I've ever seen. EVERY ****ING TEAM IN BASEBALL IS FLAWED.

Nobody has a solid team throughout the ranks. Sorry, but that's the way it is. As long as a team has to play a 162 game schedule in a sport where sheer athletic ability does not carry you through every game, series, or week, you're going to have spots where trouble mounts.

For the love of God....this team is WELL above .500 and is 5 games on top in the wild card standings. The people that give up hope and whine about how bad this team sucks are the same people that post in October saying "This team is the greatest thing I've ever seen".

There were people bellyaching all over the place in September of last year, (most of them came on the site to spout their ignorance THAT YEAR, when it was easy to be a Sox fan) and the more "experienced" fans rolled their eyes and enjoyed the ride...one that took us all the way to the ring.

Yeah...Buehrle had a bad game. The team is not winning the close games. They're playing relatively rough baseball lately. Boo ****ing hoo.

I suggest some of you look to your roots, if you've been Sox fans for a relatively long time. Look as recently as the 2004 season, where we saw a starting rotation of Buehrle, Garland, Loaiza, Shoeneweis, and Wright. Our closer was Billy Koch, and we had studs such as Mike Jackson in our bullpen.
Things are a lot nicer now, don't you say? I'd say we're a lot less flawed than two years ago. TWO YEARS!

This team has speed with Pods and Ozuna. It's got a deadly lineup. That's right - DEADLY. Dye, Konerko, Thome, Crede, Pierzynski........you're not going to find that much better anywhere.

The pitching staff is still solid. Buehrle throws at the plate. He's not afraid of bats, and since he stepped onto MLB fields, he's been known to go through a spell or two of getting hit. It happens, especially against teams with 150-200 million dollar payrolls that are gunning for him. The bullpen is strong, but it's not strong enough to pitch lights out every night. If the guys threw lights out every night, they'd be starters. Pretty much the same song and dance with every team in baseball.

Do you know how many teams would be downright jealous to have the group of players that Kenny Williams has put together? Yeah, I've seen 'em play better than they have lately, but I've seen them play a LOT worse, and I've only been watching the team since the early eighties. I bet the people that suffered through the seventies are absolutely ECSTATIC with the team that is on the field in White Sox colors.

Sit back, let the team figure it out, and by all means stop watching the team if you don't think they're "good enough". As soon as the Sox go and smack around Detroit, and all is well again, you dark clouds will be putting on your best lipstick to kiss the Sox' asses again. Quit the bellyaching, please. It's a long season. 2006 is not 2005.

markopat
07-15-2006, 10:46 PM
Somebody shoot this thread and put it out of it's misery...

please?

Jurr
07-15-2006, 10:48 PM
Somebody shoot this thread and put it out of it's misery...

please?
I agree. Utter stupidity.

ode to veeck
07-15-2006, 11:03 PM
Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team.... A great offense, which is the one thing the White Sox do have, can mask a lot of things.. Up until this point it has done so.. it has masked our extremely average pitching that is now flat-out BAD... and a below-average defense....

But, as we all know, pitching wins.... and when they can't score 5-6 runs EVERY SINGLE GAME we're going to lose....

This pitching is not playoff-caliber... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....
:darkcloud: :darkclouds: :chickenlittle:

Mod edit: You had to go one step too far....

mwc44
07-15-2006, 11:27 PM
Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0383574/03874R.jpg
"ayyyyyy, matey... walk the plank if you will, but we shant give up on our boys who have acted like scaliwags for just a few short days"

Lip Man 1
07-15-2006, 11:30 PM
Jurr:

It's four games ahead in the wild card, not five, heading into Sunday.

Lip

almighty
07-15-2006, 11:30 PM
they are flying high right now, beatin on kc VERLANDER is the real deal it looks like.

almighty
07-15-2006, 11:39 PM
beuller?

slobes
07-16-2006, 12:57 AM
Buehrle: 2006: 4.02, Career: 3.67
Vazquez: 2006: 5.07, Career: 4.33
Garland: 2006: 5.37, Career: 4.52
Contreras: 2006: 3.48, Career: 4.11
Garcia: 2006: 4.91, Career: 4.00

The one good thing to take from this is that 4 out of 5 pitchers are above their career averages and theoretically have room for improvement. Of course in the case of Vazquez his career ERA may not be as relevant as his last 3 years, in which case he's right around his average. But Garland is having his worst year since he came up in 2000, so there is reason to hope he will improve. If this is just an isolated bump in the road for Buehrle, and Garcia and Garland can improve to their career averages then we should look better in the second half.

I think these stats are proof enough that we do not currently have to do any roster changes in regards to our starting pitching. We have one of the best starting rotations, talent wise, in the majors. Buehrle is a very mentally tough guy; I don't think that he will keep getting rocked. Last year Garcia won a ton of huge games for us. There was a stretch in which it seemed like Garland was starting to find his stuff. Vasquez was fine at the beginning of the year, he's just fallen off a bit. And Contreras can be downright nasty at times. The answer to our "problem" will not be found in changing the starting rotation.

Thome25
07-16-2006, 07:17 AM
Just chill out people. Enjoy this season sit back for the ride and see what happens.

Oh and watch this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hma9eEqouK8&search=white%20sox%20intro


it's guaranteed to make you feel better about this season. GO WHITE SOX!!!

Bucky F. Dent
07-16-2006, 09:11 AM
Our starting pitching was absolute lights out last year.
With the exception of Contreras it is substantially more human this year.
Still, IMHO, we have the best unit of starting pitchers in the league.
In combination with this lineup, over the course of the season, that will carry us through to the playoffs. Once there, as we proved last year, absolutely anything can happen!

SouthSideSoxFan
07-16-2006, 09:12 AM
I'm not trying to be a dark cloud, because there are many different ways to address the current problems with the team. I'm also convinced that there will be an approach to all of these three issues before the end of the month:

Starting pitching is simply not good enough to get us to the playoffs. Last year, it was more than good enough. This is the main reason Detroit is in first and we are not.
Because of our poor starting performances, relief pitching has been exposed as average. If we had great starters, this might not matter, but under current conditions it matters a lot.
Chicks may love the long ball, but when it's all we've got, it means we lose a lot of close games instead of winning them. What happened to Ozzie ball?I know people here focus on Brian Anderson, but I actually don't think he's much of a problem that costs us games. Terrible starting pitcher performances have cost us games. Average bullpen performances have cost us games. And terrible small ball execution with a near total reliance on long ball has cost us games.

I think this is what needs fixin', with trades from Kenny, or management from Ozzie and his coaches. Otherwise, we'll have a heartbreaking season end in second place and the wildcard coming from the AL East.

HartmanSox
07-16-2006, 09:20 AM
I'm right here with you. Last year, starters consistantly went 7 innings and we had a rock solid bullpen to back them up. This year, it seems that our starters only go 5 most of the time and our middle relievers are anything but spectacular. I'm not seeing a whole lot of clutch hitting either.

When I see this team play Boston and New York, I get worried. I just don't see the dominance this year.

MrRoboto83
07-16-2006, 09:33 AM
I'm right here with you. Last year, starters consistantly went 7 innings and we had a rock solid bullpen to back them up. This year, it seems that our starters only go 5 most of the time and our middle relievers are anything but spectacular. I'm not seeing a whole lot of clutch hitting either.

When I see this team play Boston and New York, I get worried. I just don't see the dominance this year.

The Sox were not dominate against Boston or New York during the 2005 regular season either, and remember the Sox had all kinds of problems against Oakland last year.

lizard6king6
07-16-2006, 09:42 AM
Nothing against post like this but DONT WORRY!!! Everyone seems to be jumping off a legde and saying we must make a move and so on.. Theres a lot of games left, we cant win them all although expectations are really high this season. Players also cant be perfect all the time either. If something needs to be done I have faith in KW to make a move.

SouthSideSoxFan
07-16-2006, 09:46 AM
If something needs to be done I have faith in KW to make a move.
All I'm saying is that right now, something does need to be done, and I'm putting my bets on Kenny and Ozzie addressing the three things I noted in my first post.

Frankly Missing
07-16-2006, 09:48 AM
My White Sox Worry Meter needle isn't even quivering.

I didn't expect Boston or NY to be pushovers.

We were feared and loathed just last week.

This is just a bump in the road.

Unless you really think we went from steak to **** on a shingle in the course of losing 4 of 5 games.

Law11
07-16-2006, 09:54 AM
What worries me is end of the year. After we see Detroit we finish with
seattle @ the cell, then finish the schedule on the road at Cleve and Minn.

Detroit 6 of thier last 9 are against KC with Tor the only saving grace wedged in between.

I know its 2 months away but there's no reason to think it wont come down
to the last 10 days and considering how we are on the road this year I hope we are on top heading into the final week.

SouthSideSoxFan
07-16-2006, 09:56 AM
Longest game ever and I stayed all 19 innings to see a WHITE SOX WINNER!!
That game is actually where I fully realized we seem to have forgotten about "Ozzie ball." For TEN extra innings they showed inning after anguished inning that we have lost the ability to "manufacture" just one stinking run. Instead, we wait for Thome, Paulie, or JD to hit a dinger, while every other hitter rushes their at-bats just to circle back to them. Those three guys are carrying the roster, with everyone else struggling to execute Ozzie ball; where are the great bunts, the perfect hit and run, the well-timed sacrifice, and stolen bases from someone besides Scottie?

We're hooked on the long ball: 46% of our first half runs were home runs. And I'm betting that's one of the three things Kenny and Ozzie will address before the end of the month.

HartmanSox
07-16-2006, 09:59 AM
I am also worried because if the team decides to go on one of those slides late in the season where they lose 8 of 10, there is a serious chance that we won't even make the playoffs. If Detroit keeps this pace, and knowing that the Yankees or Boston make a push for the wild card, we're going to have to win as many as possible right now. It doesn't help that the Tigers play a series with KC just about every week. :rolleyes:

Frankly Missing
07-16-2006, 10:01 AM
We're hooked on the long ball: 46% of our first half runs were home runs. And I'm betting that's one of the three things Kenny and Ozzie will address before the end of the month.

I think all of last season was the same way, just about half of our runs came via the homerun.

rainbow6
07-16-2006, 10:03 AM
I'm right here with you. Last year, starters consistantly went 7 innings and we had a rock solid bullpen to back them up. This year, it seems that our starters only go 5 most of the time and our middle relievers are anything but spectacular. I'm not seeing a whole lot of clutch hitting either.

When I see this team play Boston and New York, I get worried. I just don't see the dominance this year.

I recall the dominance the Sox displayed by sweeping the Yankees on the road during the 2000 season....THEY went on to win the World Series.

Luke.

HartmanSox
07-16-2006, 10:05 AM
I recall the dominance the Sox displayed by sweeping the Yankees on the road during the 2000 season....THEY went on to win the World Series.

Luke.

Ok? So you're saying since we aren't playing very well this year vs the Yankees, we're going to win the World Series? Great logic.

MrRoboto83
07-16-2006, 10:06 AM
We're hooked on the long ball: 46% of our first half runs were home runs. And I'm betting that's one of the three things Kenny and Ozzie will address before the end of the month.

Yeah Kenny better get rid of a couple of the Sox power guys like Thome and Dye and get some guys who hit doubles and singles, I hate home run hitters.

HartmanSox
07-16-2006, 10:09 AM
Yeah Kenny better get rid of a couple of the Sox power guys like Thome and Dye and get some guys who hit doubles and singles, I hate home run hitters.

That's not what he's saying. What he's saying is, waiting for the 3-run homer makes for a very one dimensional team. The Cubs are the best example of this.

MrRoboto83
07-16-2006, 10:10 AM
Ok? So you're saying since we aren't playing very well this year vs the Yankees, we're going to win the World Series? Great logic.

I think he means, this series means jack **** when it comes down to the rest of the season, there are a lot of games left. Just because the Sox are not playing good at the moment there is no need to panic. What if the Sox sweep New York when they come to Chicago in August? The Sox have not been swept yet this season! The verge of it, yes, but still it hasn't been done. That is an amazing stat, even the best of teams get swept at some point during a season.

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 10:16 AM
That game is actually where I fully realized we seem to have forgotten about "Ozzie ball." For TEN extra innings they showed inning after anguished inning that we have lost the ability to "manufacture" just one stinking run. Instead, we wait for Thome, Paulie, or JD to hit a dinger, while every other hitter rushes their at-bats just to circle back to them. Those three guys are carrying the roster, with everyone else struggling to execute Ozzie ball; where are the great bunts, the perfect hit and run, the well-timed sacrifice, and stolen bases from someone besides Scottie?

We're hooked on the long ball: 46% of our first half runs were home runs. And I'm betting that's one of the three things Kenny and Ozzie will address before the end of the month.

I agree, that same 19 inning game we had men on 1st and second with no outs and we failed to sacrifice the runners over at least twice, with Pods and Iguchi failing to lay down a sac bunt.

Iguchi, who last year almost always hit the ball to the right side with a man on second, has failed to do this several times, this year.

Stolen bases are down, and "small ball" execution is poor this year.

I'm not saying I am unhappy with the team, however the reliance of the long ball in 2002-2004 with second place finishes is the reason in 2005 we went to small ball or Ozzie ball. This year it seems forgotten.

Frankly Missing
07-16-2006, 10:21 AM
I'm not saying I am unhappy with the team, however the reliance of the long ball in 2002-2004 with second place finishes is the reason in 2005 we went to small ball or Ozzie ball. This year it seems forgotten.

Again, I am too lazy to hunt for this stat, but I believe almost 50% of our runs in 2005 came courtesy of the long ball. But the legend of "small ball" lives on.

viagracat
07-16-2006, 10:27 AM
Man, we've got to seed all these dark clouds before they unite into one big, tornadic thunderhead...:(:

MrRoboto83
07-16-2006, 10:30 AM
Man, we've got to seed all these dark clouds before they unite into one big, tornadic thunderhead...:(:


:kneeslap: No doubt, may have to even bring back the "Duck and Cover" campaign.

MadetoOrta
07-16-2006, 10:35 AM
Baseball is a marathon. Quit :whiner: Suck it up men and women. I wonder what the Cleveland fans were saying last year at this time when they fell 15 games behind the Sox? Four (4) teams will be left to play in the playoffs. I'm still very confident we'll be one of them.

alohafri
07-16-2006, 10:38 AM
There's a difference between being a dark cloud and being realistic. I usually see dark clouds as people who worry about nothing. But we have some serious problems that we didn't have last year.
.

Amen Rowand33! Our "ace" has an ERA of over 12 in his past three starts; Our fielding has become suspect as of late; our starters struggle to get through 5 innings without a big inning; our second baseman is still gimpy. You are right about Anderson. His solid contacts are starting to find the holes in the field, unlike earlier in the year. Without our pitching and defense, it is the return of Team Drudgery. I'm worried about the Twins as well as the Tigers.

alohafri
07-16-2006, 10:39 AM
Man, we've got to seed all these dark clouds before they unite into one big, tornadic thunderhead...:(:

WE don't have to do anything. The White Sox need to start playing some fundamentally sound baseball!

WizardsofOzzie
07-16-2006, 10:40 AM
Time for everyone to wake up and realize that this team is a flawed team.... A great offense, which is the one thing the White Sox do have, can mask a lot of things.. Up until this point it has done so.. it has masked our extremely average pitching that is now flat-out BAD... and a below-average defense....

But, as we all know, pitching wins.... and when they can't score 5-6 runs EVERY SINGLE GAME we're going to lose....

This pitching is not playoff-caliber... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS....

Bigredrudy, is that you???

digdagdug23
07-16-2006, 10:40 AM
That game is actually where I fully realized we seem to have forgotten about "Ozzie ball." For TEN extra innings they showed inning after anguished inning that we have lost the ability to "manufacture" just one stinking run. Instead, we wait for Thome, Paulie, or JD to hit a dinger, while every other hitter rushes their at-bats just to circle back to them. Those three guys are carrying the roster, with everyone else struggling to execute Ozzie ball; where are the great bunts, the perfect hit and run, the well-timed sacrifice, and stolen bases from someone besides Scottie?


I was at that very same game, and it seems to me (as beleaguered as it was) that it was the small ball that won the game, base hit drove in the winning run with sacks packed, and none of those three were on the base paths.

voodoochile
07-16-2006, 10:43 AM
Just wanted to say thanks to all the posters in this thread. I have only read a few posts and they made me *****!

Thanks...:)

Brian26
07-16-2006, 10:50 AM
Just wanted to say thanks to all the posters in this thread. I have only read a few posts and they made me *****!

Tell me about it. The White Sox have the 2nd best record in baseball right now. Everyone needs to relax.

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 10:52 AM
Again, I am too lazy to hunt for this stat, but I believe almost 50% of our runs in 2005 came courtesy of the long ball. But the legend of "small ball" lives on.


I don't think "small ball" was a legend last year. In the first half of the season, before Pods injured his leg, we saw the Sox manufacture a bunch of runs.

Ed Farmer has discussed several times, when you move a man into scoring position, how the pitcher's mind set changes and his pitch selection changes allowing the batter better pitches to swing at.

The long ball is great but give me a team that keeps the defense and the pitchers on its toes as well as the long ball.

It seems we have turned into the "selfish player" 2004 White Sox again and not the "un-selfish player" 2005 White Sox.

MrRoboto83
07-16-2006, 10:55 AM
It seems we have turned into the "selfish player" 2004 White Sox again and not the "un-selfish player" 2005 White Sox.

:o: I don't buy this for a second.

alohafri
07-16-2006, 10:55 AM
Tell me about it. The White Sox have the 2nd best record in baseball right now. Everyone needs to relax.

Keep drinking your Cubbie Kool-aid. I'm not going to relax until we win about 4 in a row...including three against the Tigers.

Brian26
07-16-2006, 10:56 AM
It seems we have turned into the "selfish player" 2004 White Sox again and not the "un-selfish player" 2005 White Sox.

Not true at all. Look at the 9th inning on Friday. Thome, Konerko, and Dye came up (3-4-5) and hit three straight singles to load the bases off Rivera. We got two of the runs home on a ground out to the right side and then a Sac Fly. Too bad we couldn't get that 3rd run to tie it, but to me that's a great example of small ball and doing the little things. I'm not sure Frank Thomas-Carlos Lee-Jose Valentin could put three hits like that together in 2004.

Brian26
07-16-2006, 10:57 AM
Keep drinking your Cubbie Kool-aid. I'm not going to relax until we win about 4 in a row...including three against the Tigers.

I'm not worried about the Tigers at all head to head.

ode to veeck
07-16-2006, 10:58 AM
:darkcloud: :darkclouds: :chickenlittle:

Mod edit: You had to go one step too far....


OK, I'll be good now

TornLabrum
07-16-2006, 11:02 AM
I was at that very same game, and it seems to me (as beleaguered as it was) that it was the small ball that won the game, base hit drove in the winning run with sacks packed, and none of those three were on the base paths.

Please, let's not confuse the issue with facts!

nsolo
07-16-2006, 11:05 AM
I don't think "small ball" was a legend last year. In the first half of the season, before Pods injured his leg, we saw the Sox manufacture a bunch of runs.

Ed Farmer has discussed several times, when you move a man into scoring position, how the pitcher's mind set changes and his pitch selection changes allowing the batter better pitches to swing at.

The long ball is great but give me a team that keeps the defense and the pitchers on its toes as well as the long ball.

It seems we have turned into the "selfish player" 2004 White Sox again and not the "un-selfish player" 2005 White Sox.

Great post. I've been thinking about how to state my opinion and you said it perfectly. The last sentence says it all.

nasox
07-16-2006, 11:14 AM
I'm not worried about the Tigers at all head to head.
5-1

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 11:16 AM
Not true at all. Look at the 9th inning on Friday. Thome, Konerko, and Dye came up (3-4-5) and hit three straight singles to load the bases off Rivera. We got two of the runs home on a ground out to the right side and then a Sac Fly. Too bad we couldn't get that 3rd run to tie it, but to me that's a great example of small ball and doing the little things. I'm not sure Frank Thomas-Carlos Lee-Jose Valentin could put three hits like that together in 2004.

Down three runs and getting three hits in a row is not small ball.

What I am talking about is when we get a leadoff double. Last year, we would hit to the right side and then we would have a man on third with one out. Now he can come home on a wild pitch, ground out to short or second if the infield is at standard depth or a sac fly.

This year I see the Sox swing away.

This happened in a game recently and Ed Farmer pointed out how a pitcher will not throw the same pitches with a man on third as opposed to a man on second. He may steer away from a curve ball in fear of a wild pitch. This give the batters more fastballs to look for and better pitches to hit.

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 11:24 AM
I was at that very same game, and it seems to me (as beleaguered as it was) that it was the small ball that won the game, base hit drove in the winning run with sacks packed, and none of those three were on the base paths.

Again this is not small ball. Small ball would have been a leadoff single, a sac bunt and we drive in the winning run with another single.

In this game I believe, the second hitter did try to sac bunt but was walked instead. We then did win with two more singles but this is not an example of small ball.

viagracat
07-16-2006, 11:32 AM
Keep drinking your Cubbie Kool-aid. I'm not going to relax until we win about 4 in a row...including three against the Tigers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Kool-AidMan.jpg/180px-Kool-AidMan.jpg

"Do you sell Kool-Aid in a 40? I want three!"

The Critic
07-16-2006, 11:38 AM
Detroit's 11-0 record thus far against the Kansas City Contractables has gone a long way towards the hand-wringing we're seeing here.
The Sox have flaws, sure, but most, if not all, teams do.
I'm content to sit back and see how it all plays out.
Not much more I can do about it anyway. :D:

MrRoboto83
07-16-2006, 11:38 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Kool-AidMan.jpg/180px-Kool-AidMan.jpg

"Do you sell Kool-Aid in a 40? I want three!"

I'll take some crystal light pink lemonade, cause I'm talking and thinking pink everything Sox right now, there is nothing wrong with this team, the Sox will win the World Series. The Sox will win the next 4 games.
http://www.kraftfoods.com/Images/ocpimages/43000/95019CF.gif

Brian26
07-16-2006, 12:11 PM
Down three runs and getting three hits in a row is not small ball.

What I am talking about is when we get a leadoff double. Last year, we would hit to the right side and then we would have a man on third with one out. Now he can come home on a wild pitch, ground out to short or second if the infield is at standard depth or a sac fly.

This year I see the Sox swing away.

Maybe you need to watch some more games.

The 2006 are nowhere near the 2004 Sox offensively.

We've been losing games recently because of poor starting pitching.

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 12:25 PM
Maybe you need to watch some more games.

The 2006 are nowhere near the 2004 Sox offensively.

We've been losing games recently because of poor starting pitching.

I watch most games. You are missing the whole point of what I am saying. SMALL BALL IS NOT BEING PLAYED BY THIS TEAM. 2005 YES, 2006 NO.

I never compared the 2006 Sox to the 2004 Sox. However, if you would like to. The 2004 SOX were a homerun hitting team that did not manufacture runs, did not sacrifice, did not hit to the right side with a man on second and no outs and came in second place.

The 2006 team is very similar and I am hoping they avoid second place.

2005 team, did manufacture runs, did hit to the right side, did sac bunt and won the World Series.

What I am saying is lets get back to last years baseball and play smart baseball and rely less on the home run.

Thome25
07-16-2006, 12:39 PM
I watch most games. You are missing the whole point of what I am saying. SMALL BALL IS NOT BEING PLAYED BY THIS TEAM. 2005 YES, 2006 NO.

I never compared the 2006 Sox to the 2004 Sox. However, if you would like to. The 2004 SOX were a homerun hitting team that did not manufacture runs, did not sacrifice, did not hit to the right side with a man on second and no outs and came in second place.

The 2006 team is very similar and I am hoping they avoid second place.

2005 team, did manufacture runs, did hit to the right side, did sac bunt and won the World Series.

What I am saying is lets get back to last years baseball and play smart baseball and rely less on the home run.

ATTENTION: The 2005 team DID NOT go wire to wire and win the world series because they played smallball and hit the ball to the right side and laid down sac bunts and stole bases.

THEY WON THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THEY HAD AN UNBELIEVEABLE PITCHING STAFF AND AN UNBELIEVABLE BULLPEN. AND ALSO, PLAYED GREAT DEFENSE.

I'm not yelling either. It's in all caps so people get the point. The 2005 "smallball" talk needs to come to a rest. The 2005 team still hit a ton of home runs. The pitching is what kept us in games and won us the ALCS and World Series.

As for this year, the pitching will be fine. give it some time.

MrRoboto83
07-16-2006, 12:42 PM
ATTENTION: The 2005 team DID NOT go wire to wire and win the world series because they played smallball and hit the ball to the right side and laid down sac bunts and stole bases.

THEY WON THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THEY HAD AN UNBELIEVEABLE PITCHING STAFF AND AN UNBELIEVABLE BULLPEN. AND ALSO, PLAYED GREAT DEFENSE.

I'm not yelling either. It's in all caps so people get the point. The 2005 "smallball" talk needs to come to a rest. The 2005 team still hit a ton of home runs. The pitching is what kept us in games and won us the ALCS and World Series.

As for this year, the pitching will be fine. give it some time.

Amen. It wasn't until this time last year Jose started pitching well, who is to say that Javy, Mark and Freddy can't do the same thing?

Brian26
07-16-2006, 12:44 PM
2005 team, did manufacture runs, did hit to the right side, did sac bunt and won the World Series.

What I am saying is lets get back to last years baseball and play smart baseball and rely less on the home run.

The 2005 team relied on homeruns too. People feed into this theory that the Sox didn't hit any homeruns last year and won only based on "small ball." The Sox were 5th in the majors last year in HR's.

The Sox are playing smart ball and doing plenty of sacrificing and moving guys over.

digdagdug23
07-16-2006, 12:46 PM
Again this is not small ball. Small ball would have been a leadoff single, a sac bunt and we drive in the winning run with another single.

In this game I believe, the second hitter did try to sac bunt but was walked instead. We then did win with two more singles but this is not an example of small ball.

What? Okay, whatever.

If the 19th inning does not qualify as small ball to you, I have no idea what actually does. Besides this is becoming :offtopic:

I am not in a catatonic state of denial, but I am also not folding up the tent and ready for a fire sale, either. Just because this is a professional team, does not mean they play at 100% of their capability every series. Off days happen, and there will be L's that go up on the board. Odds of probability are a b****.

I am done defending in the doomsday thread. Some want nothing more than to hear their own voice, and be the harbinger of bad news, logic be damned.

After reading here, I feel as though I need a cleansing shower, and definitely some of that happy kool-aid. It is getting depressing in here, and I will not go down with this ship.
:deadhorse:

Brian26
07-16-2006, 12:47 PM
ATTENTION: The 2005 team DID NOT go wire to wire and win the world series because they played smallball and hit the ball to the right side and laid down sac bunts and stole bases.

THEY WON THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THEY HAD AN UNBELIEVEABLE PITCHING STAFF AND AN UNBELIEVABLE BULLPEN. AND ALSO, PLAYED GREAT DEFENSE.

To take it further, you could even argue that the pitching out in Anaheim was as good as it was because PK spotted the starters with 3-run leads in Games 3 and 4 on those first-inning home runs.

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 12:53 PM
The 2005 team relied on homeruns too. People feed into this theory that the Sox didn't hit any homeruns last year and won only based on "small ball." The Sox were 5th in the majors last year in HR's.

The Sox are playing smart ball and doing plenty of sacrificing and moving guys over.

I understand that the Sox hit plenty of homeruns last year. I am not saying that the only reason they won the world series is because of small ball.

Obviously, the pitching was much better last year.

I will disagree with the you with the Sox playing smart ball this season. Sorry, I do not see it. And as a season ticket holder for many years I watch most games.

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 12:59 PM
ATTENTION: The 2005 team DID NOT go wire to wire and win the world series because they played smallball and hit the ball to the right side and laid down sac bunts and stole bases.

THEY WON THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THEY HAD AN UNBELIEVEABLE PITCHING STAFF AND AN UNBELIEVABLE BULLPEN. AND ALSO, PLAYED GREAT DEFENSE.

I'm not yelling either. It's in all caps so people get the point. The 2005 "smallball" talk needs to come to a rest. The 2005 team still hit a ton of home runs. The pitching is what kept us in games and won us the ALCS and World Series.

As for this year, the pitching will be fine. give it some time.

I understand that the Sox had an unbelievable pitching staff last year and that's the reason they won.

What I said in an earlier post was last years team stole bases, sac bunt, and so on and it kept the opposing teams pitchers and fielders on their toes.

The point was, why wait for the home run when we can manufacture runs as well.

That is all. Nothing more nothing less

StatHead21
07-16-2006, 05:15 PM
This team is very flawed.

Offense is spectacular but its not a well rounded line up, the offense is dependent on Thome, Konerko, Dye.

The pitching as been awful, Garland, Vazquez and Garcia have been getting roughed up from day 1. Buehrle and Contreras have struggled recently.

Bullpen has been average besides Jenks who's been great and Cliff who's been god awful.

Defense has not been what it can be. Uribe has made some bad throwing errors, I've noticed Crede is great to his left but bad to his right, Anderson can't stay in the line up because of his brutal offense causing Macowiak to play more games than he should in CF

Face the facts this team is flawed and Kenny needs to make multiple deals...

StatHead21
07-16-2006, 05:17 PM
ATTENTION: The 2005 team DID NOT go wire to wire and win the world series because they played smallball and hit the ball to the right side and laid down sac bunts and stole bases.

THEY WON THE WORLD SERIES BECAUSE THEY HAD AN UNBELIEVEABLE PITCHING STAFF AND AN UNBELIEVABLE BULLPEN. AND ALSO, PLAYED GREAT DEFENSE.

I'm not yelling either. It's in all caps so people get the point. The 2005 "smallball" talk needs to come to a rest. The 2005 team still hit a ton of home runs. The pitching is what kept us in games and won us the ALCS and World Series.

As for this year, the pitching will be fine. give it some time.

I agree with you 100%, but I say we don't give Freddy anymore time, his velocity is gone...

Lip Man 1
07-16-2006, 05:18 PM
Brian:

Your point about home runs is legit but it's also just as legit to say the Sox did win a number of games because they were able to manufacture runs, played excellent defense and ran the bases well.

Have you seen that in the past two weeks or so?

They blew two more bunts today, had a guy throw out at the plate and so forth.

It takes a combination of things to win. The Sox are still hitting home runs but they simply haven't been as good at the other areas of the game which in my mind are just as important as hitting 250 home runs a year (more important to be honest with you...)

Lip

SoxEd
07-16-2006, 06:00 PM
This is rather a Thread Hijack - my apologies to everyone.

Well, as long as grammer is being questioned, the following link will support my original spelling of "peace" instead of "piece". Both can be argued to be correct. http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/156.html

Yet, what do you mean when you state "What happened you last time you said your piece?" I think you meant "What happened the last time your said your piece/peace, correct?
So, you are unaware of what use of teal means on here, or are you trying to pick a fight?

If the former, then it means the poster using it is being sarcastic/only joking i.e. the text in teal is not meant to be taken seriously.

That is - I was joking about this, NOT trying to pick you up on your grammar in an aggressive way (had that been my intention, I would have also called you out for your incorrect use of 'their' instead of 'they're' in the same post :tongue:, rather than correcting it for you in the portion I quoted ).

E.g. I'm really glad we're having this discussion.

or we really kicked those Yankees' arses this series.


If you're after criticising me, then I have the following to say:

citing an Internet bulletin board, no matter what it calls itself, to support your 'neologistic' or 'unconventional' use of a certain word instead of its homophone is hardly the way to convince anyone else that your usage is correct, is it?

If you can cite a dictionary, or e.g. a respectable newspaper or journal, then I'll accept your apparently oxymoronic sentence construction.

You can 'hold your peace' (i.e. keep silent) or you can 'say your piece' (i.e. contribute your share), you can even 'hold your piece' (if you are carrying a handgun or making a rude gesture), but you cannot 'say your peace' - to do so would be to 'voice your silence'.

It's worse than typing that you 'went too the store', which is merely meaningless, rather than actively self-contradictory.

Ach y fi!

TornLabrum
07-16-2006, 06:09 PM
This is rather a Thread Hijack - my apologies to everyone.


So, you are unaware of what use of teal means on here, or are you trying to pick a fight?

If the former, then it means the poster using it is being sarcastic/only joking i.e. the text in teal is not meant to be taken seriously.

That is - I was joking about this, NOT trying to pick you up on your grammar in an aggressive way (had that been my intention, I would have also called you out for your incorrect use of 'their' instead of 'they're' in the same post :tongue:, rather than correcting it for you in the portion I quoted ).

E.g. I'm really glad we're having this discussion.

or we really kicked those Yankees' arses this series.


If you're after criticising me, then I have the following to say:

citing an Internet bulletin board, no matter what it calls itself, to support your 'neologistic' or 'unconventional' use of a certain word instead of its homophone is hardly the way to convince anyone else that your usage is correct, is it?

If you can cite a dictionary, or e.g. a respectable newspaper or journal, then I'll accept your apparently oxymoronic sentence construction.

You can 'hold your peace' (i.e. keep silent) or you can 'say your piece' (i.e. contribute your share), you can even 'hold your piece' (if you are carrying a handgun or making a rude gesture), but you cannot 'say your peace' - to do so would be to 'voice your silence'.

It's worse than typing that you 'went too the store', which is merely meaningless, rather than actively self-contradictory.

Ach y fi!

And to think you even laid off his misspelling of grammar....

SoxEd
07-16-2006, 06:22 PM
And to think you even laid off his misspelling of grammar....

I know, I know.

kittle42 would be appalled at my laxity.

Brian26
07-16-2006, 06:27 PM
This team is very flawed.

Offense is spectacular but its not a well rounded line up, the offense is dependent on Thome, Konerko, Dye.

The pitching as been awful, Garland, Vazquez and Garcia have been getting roughed up from day 1. Buehrle and Contreras have struggled recently.

Bullpen has been average besides Jenks who's been great and Cliff who's been god awful.

Defense has not been what it can be. Uribe has made some bad throwing errors, I've noticed Crede is great to his left but bad to his right, Anderson can't stay in the line up because of his brutal offense causing Macowiak to play more games than he should in CF

Face the facts this team is flawed and Kenny needs to make multiple deals...

Good grief. They still have the 2nd best record in baseball. They'd be leading any of the other five divisions right now. This is still the best team in baseball when you consider all factors (non-injuries/postseason experience/depth on the bench). Kenny doesn't need to make multiple deals. Just get a grip.

Brian26
07-16-2006, 06:31 PM
Brian:

Your point about home runs is legit but it's also just as legit to say the Sox did win a number of games because they were able to manufacture runs, played excellent defense and ran the bases well.

Have you seen that in the past two weeks or so?

They blew two more bunts today, had a guy throw out at the plate and so forth.

It takes a combination of things to win. The Sox are still hitting home runs but they simply haven't been as good at the other areas of the game which in my mind are just as important as hitting 250 home runs a year (more important to be honest with you...)

Lip

The base-running today was atrocious, which was a combination of mental mistakes by Cora and the runners. The defense has been struggling, and the starting pitching has been lacking. There's no doubt we've been in a slump. However, over the course of the first half of the season, the defense, advancement of runners, and clutch hitting have been there. I don't think its fair to say that this has been a problem over the first 85 games, because it hasn't.

QCIASOXFAN
07-16-2006, 06:37 PM
This team is very flawed.

Offense is spectacular but its not a well rounded line up, the offense is dependent on Thome, Konerko, Dye.

The pitching as been awful, Garland, Vazquez and Garcia have been getting roughed up from day 1. Buehrle and Contreras have struggled recently.

Bullpen has been average besides Jenks who's been great and Cliff who's been god awful.

Defense has not been what it can be. Uribe has made some bad throwing errors, I've noticed Crede is great to his left but bad to his right, Anderson can't stay in the line up because of his brutal offense causing Macowiak to play more games than he should in CF

Face the facts this team is flawed and Kenny needs to make multiple deals...How can you say our offense is not well rounded and only depends on Thome, Konerko and Dye? Crede is having a carerr year and A.J. is batting like .320. What is wrong with Podsednik and Iguchi? Their bad all of the sudden because were on a losing streak? Gimme a break Mr.Darkcloud, the only spot in the order that you can maybe point at is Anderson, who right now is batting over .300 in July. As far as saying any part of Joe Crede in the field is bad is simply comical.

Sox-o-matic
07-16-2006, 06:47 PM
Brian:

Your point about home runs is legit but it's also just as legit to say the Sox did win a number of games because they were able to manufacture runs, played excellent defense and ran the bases well.

Have you seen that in the past two weeks or so?

They blew two more bunts today, had a guy throw out at the plate and so forth.

It takes a combination of things to win. The Sox are still hitting home runs but they simply haven't been as good at the other areas of the game which in my mind are just as important as hitting 250 home runs a year (more important to be honest with you...)

Lip

Right on. This team has been doing several things wrong. It just so happens that throughout the first half it seemed as if our bad starting pitching, weak front of the bullpen, and our lack of fundamentals were overshadowed by our huge offense and all those come from behind victories.

Now in the second half these things are coming to light more. As was just stated, winning a championship is possible when a team does everything well. It's not just home runs or small ball or pitching individually.

Despite the crappy play as of late, with the dumping of Politte and addition of Tracey, our bullpen right now looks stronger than it has ever looked so far this year. If KW can pull off a deal for a setup man the calibur of a Tom Gordon then this 2006 bullpen is even better than last year's version.

Also, our defense has been there when we needed it. It seems as if when we make our errors they come all at once and during a game that we have no chance of winning anyway due to our starting pitching.

Our offense has been incredible for the exception of the area of fundamentals, where mainly we have failed to lay down a bunt or get a runner in from third with less than two outs, but I refuse to believe that this team is incapable of getting it right. If we can do that, and if our starting pitching picks up we could easily roll through the postseason 11-1 or better once again.

Lip Man 1
07-16-2006, 07:08 PM
Brian:

I recall Uribe and Pods blowing sacrifice attempts in April as well as July.

In fact I know it's been an issue in the first half because Ozzie HIMSELF has addressed this issue ('fundamentals') in print, at least three times, plus he put the team through additional bunting work in June.

I can't tell you why they aren't executing as well and frankly this started back in spring training...my best guess is that last year was a long draining season, the WBC has affected some Sox players and the natural human tendency to 'let down' the following year after winning it all. Consciously and subconsciously it's very hard to 'get back to the top of the mountain' when you've done it already.

Regardless of the reason, it's up to Ozzie to step in and correct things... that's his job. To the best of my knowledge so far he hasn't done it. I hope he does it soon. It's not just fighting Detroit and holding off the Yankees suddenly the Twins are only 6 1/2 behind.

The schedule is brutal and things are difficult right now. We'll see how the team responds.

Lip

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 07:15 PM
Right on. This team has been doing several things wrong. It just so happens that throughout the first half it seemed as if our bad starting pitching, weak front of the bullpen, and our lack of fundamentals were overshadowed by our huge offense and all those come from behind victories.

Now in the second half these things are coming to light more. As was just stated, winning a championship is possible when a team does everything well. It's not just home runs or small ball or pitching individually.

Despite the crappy play as of late, with the dumping of Politte and addition of Tracey, our bullpen right now looks stronger than it has ever looked so far this year. If KW can pull off a deal for a setup man the calibur of a Tom Gordon then this 2006 bullpen is even better than last year's version.

Also, our defense has been there when we needed it. It seems as if when we make our errors they come all at once and during a game that we have no chance of winning anyway due to our starting pitching.

Our offense has been incredible for the exception of the area of fundamentals, where mainly we have failed to lay down a bunt or get a runner in from third with less than two outs, but I refuse to believe that this team is incapable of getting it right. If we can do that, and if our starting pitching picks up we could easily roll through the postseason 11-1 or better once again.

well said!

jabrch
07-16-2006, 07:47 PM
It's sad. I'm convinced that a lot of Sox fans really don't deserve this good a team. Same with Yanks fans - some of whom clearly didn't deserve the 15 year run they are on.

Think about all the fandoms that would LOVE to have what we have. Hell, I love having what we have. Is it perfect? No - but no team is. Our team wasn't perfect last year, and last I checked the World Series Rings didn't say, "2005 World Champs, even though they had a subpar offense". Hell, I know a lot of Cubs fans who deserve a winner more than some of you do...

Really...cry me a river. This team is still amongst the best in baseball. Oh, and KW isn't done yet.

ChiSoxlukes
07-16-2006, 07:51 PM
:threadsucks
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

Credefan21
07-16-2006, 07:55 PM
Once again the overly optomistic people like to believe that things are going great and that our starting pitchers ERA isn't high either. We depend on our offense to bail our pitchers out of bad starts too often. Some changes have to be made. While I think we are still overall the best team in baseball, our starters haven't done the job at all. So you can dark cloud this and that all you want to make yourselves look cool or to make yourselves sleep better at night, but it will not change the reality that our pitching for the most part sucks lately and has for awhile.

Lip Man 1
07-16-2006, 08:06 PM
I appreciate more then most what the organization did in 2005 because I suffered through more bad seasons then many on this board (because I'm 50 soon to be 51)

That being said what the organization did in 2005 is just that...2005.

This is now July 2006.

I'm sorry if that sounds like 'what have you done lately...' but that is the world of professional sports, fair or unfair.

Lip

JB98
07-16-2006, 08:37 PM
I agree the Sox are flawed. You know what? So is every other team in the league. The Yankees middle relief is questionable at best, and they don't get much production from their corner outfielders. The Red Sox have no reliable starters after Schilling. The Tigers are probably a bat short and lack experience at several positions. Injuries are sneaking up on the Twins, and the back of their rotation isn't exactly stellar.

Every team has problems. Our problem is a meltdown by this vaunted starting rotation. Since interleague play ended and we went back to facing AL lineups, the pitching staff simply has not gotten the job done. It's a difficult problem for KW to solve because all these guys are experienced and proven. There are no obvious weak links that need to be replaced. We know Buerhle and Garcia can do it. We've seen them do it. It's up to them to sack up and get the job done.

One of the greatest myths about the 2006 White Sox is the notion that we have great pitching. We do not. We are in the middle of the pack. Several pitchers are performing well below expectations. I give our offense an A+ this year. Overall, they have been fantastic, carrying this pitching staff. We can slug our way into the playoffs, as we did in 2000. But in order to repeat as World Series champions, the pitchers need to step it up significantly. I stated it in our "Sox at the break" thread earlier this week. After the weekend debacle in New York, it's worth repeating.

Chipol
07-16-2006, 08:38 PM
What is an optimal expectation for my team? To me, it is to be one of that small groups of teams that is always in the hunt. In the playoffs most years. Some years you win it all, some you don't. The Sox finally appear to be in the early stages of being that kind of organization. Not only that, most of the time, they are darn entertaining. As far as I'm concerned, my dreams have come true: a thoroughly dominating World Series win, and on the doorstep of being one of those teams that is a perrennial contender.

Sure, I yell at the TV when they run the bases like Keystone Kops or when one of my pitchers is getting his butt handed to him. But I would do that if they were fighting for fourth place too. I go into every game expecting to win and expecting my team to play well. But I don't jump off the ledge when they don't. These are human beings, not robots. Humans are imperfect. Over the course of 162 games, they have brain farts, they get tired, they get hurt, they age, but they also excel, improve and sometimes make magic. This is a team that more often has done the latter rather than the former. Give them a break.

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 08:41 PM
This would be a pretty boring board if all everyone talked about was how great the White Sox are.

If it was up to some on this board, every post would look like this.

TOPIC: The Sox are Great! How many games will we win the division by and how many World Series Titles in a row?

SUPERSOXFAN: WE will win the division by 22 games and a minimum 8-peat

SUPERDUPERSOXFAN: WE will the division by 20 games and 9 World titles in a row.

SOXFANBOB: Detroit concerns me. I think we will win the division by 4 games and repeat as champs. Past that I dont Know.

SUPERSOXFAN: What the hell is your problem Troll. What are you a Yankee fan. Go shoot someone with a gun.

SUPERDUPERSOXFAN: Get off our board Dark Cloud

SOXFANBOB: Im Just saying ,it is a tough division this year and our pitching has not been Great.

SUPERSOXFAN: Pitching will be fine. COOP will fix it. Go to another Board TRoll.

Grzegorz
07-16-2006, 08:48 PM
One of the greatest myths about the 2006 White Sox is the notion that we have great pitching. We do not. We are in the middle of the pack. Several pitchers are performing well below expectations.

The pitching, baserunning, and execution was horrible today.

The White Sox have to get more out of their starters and they must execute better; the bottom of the order has to be successful sacrificing runners over. The baserunning has been pathetic; sending Crede home on that single to leftfield was ill-advised to put it nicely.

Getting clocked by the AL East tells a story; the White Sox are not the best team in MLB at this time.

JB98
07-16-2006, 08:57 PM
The pitching, baserunning, and execution was horrible today.

The White Sox have to get more out of their starters and they must execute better; the bottom of the order has to be successful sacrificing runners over. The baserunning has been pathetic; sending Crede home on that single to leftfield was ill-advised to put it nicely.

Getting clocked by the AL East tells a story; the White Sox are not the best team in MLB at this time.

Everything about these last two games has been horrible, no question. I just think you have to look at 91 games, not two, to come up with an analysis of the team. They aren't hitting in the clutch right now, and that's the opposite of what they've done for the majority of the season. Throughout the year, these hitters have been money, and they've covered up all our warts on the pitching mound. The series against Boston and this weekend, they've failed repeatedly with RISP. That's uncharacteristic, but now that it's happening, all our weaknesses are much more exposed. Almost unbelievably, the biggest weakness has been starting pitching. I thought that would be our greatest strength, and it still may be. But there's no denying we have some guys who need to make adjustments. Garland has been crucified on this board this season, but given how poorly Buerhle and Garcia are pitching, I'm glad Jon is opening the series against Detroit. After Contreras, he's been our second-best pitcher as of late. That's less a compliment of Jon than it is an indictment of Mark, Freddy and Vazquez.

FarWestChicago
07-16-2006, 09:11 PM
If it was up to some on this board, every post would look like this.You're pretty much a new guy, so it's not surprising you don't know much about the history of this site. For years it's been dominated by pants pissing, Dark Clouds. Last year sucked for them. No matter how much they cried, the Sox kept winning. They think they are back on top again. You'll have to excuse those of us who don't quit in July. BTW, here is one of your buddies with what is easily my favorite post of the year so far. This is classic. :redneckThis team is a complete joke... they aren't going to make the playoffs... not with this kind of pitching anyways... and even if they do with this pitching, i'd be shocked to win even 1 game... at that point, i'd rather not make it at all.... I've never in my life been more disgusted with a white sox team... even when they were just a .500 club it was easier to swallow because you didn't expect greatness... this team will go down as one of the most disappointing in MLB history

Grzegorz
07-16-2006, 09:22 PM
JB98,

The hitting will ebb and flow during a season. That's just the natural course of the game. What needs to be consistent is pitching, defense, and the execution of the fundamentals; advancing the runner and base running.

Dark cloud? No, just a realist that looks at the performance of this team objectively.

Domeshot17
07-16-2006, 09:29 PM
I am all for looking at this season as a whole.

Start with the BAD
Freddy, Vaz, ERA's over 5, their butts have been saved by the offense majority of the time.

Buehlre has been getting shelled, having a down year.

I think, off cuff, we are like 58 out of 80 for stolen bases this year. Not great

Joey Cora has no idea how to coach third, which has cost us with piss poor base running all year.

Bullpen shakey

Not much clutch hitting from our 4-5 with men on base

the GOOD
Contreras
Garland more falls into the OK, but hes been our 2nd best sp this year
Jenks been good in the 9th

Thome, AJ, Crede, doing more then their share on O.

Sounds a lot like 2004. GREAT O, Horrible pitching. Kenny better get someone, because for months I have been "Waiting" and patient, and this is now the home stretch, all of these games, even in july, matter. I keep hearing people say, Be Patient Be Patient, well im not on the ledge, but my patience with Freddy has worn thin. How many times is he going to friggin blow an early lead, and spot them 3-4 runs. Either put his ass on the line, or coops, because one or the other is to blame by now.

FarWestChicago
07-16-2006, 09:33 PM
I keep hearing people say, Be Patient Be Patient, well im not on the ledge...No, actually you are on the ledge. :D:

oscars gamble
07-16-2006, 09:34 PM
You're pretty much a new guy, so it's not surprising you don't know much about the history of this site. For years it's been dominated by pants pissing, Dark Clouds. Last year sucked for them. No matter how much they cried, the Sox kept winning. They think they are back on top again. You'll have to excuse those of us who don't quit in July. BTW, here is one of your buddies with what is easily my favorite post of the year so far. This is classic. :redneck

If you discuss ways the team can be improved is not quitting in July. I call it dicussing the White Sox, something I would like to do with fellow White Sox fans.

You know what I give up

SLUUUUURRRRP Let me take a drink of the Sox Kool Aid.

DA SOX. The team is fine, all is well, I will see you for Game 1 of the World Series

Feel Better

QCIASOXFAN
07-16-2006, 09:39 PM
You're pretty much a new guy, so it's not surprising you don't know much about the history of this site. For years it's been dominated by pants pissing, Dark Clouds. Last year sucked for them. No matter how much they cried, the Sox kept winning. They think they are back on top again. You'll have to excuse those of us who don't quit in July. BTW, here is one of your buddies with what is easily my favorite post of the year so far. This is classic. :redneck That post is classic. I like the last sentence where he says that "this team will go down as one of the most disappointing in MLB history". Who says that in July, seriously, we still have like 70 games left.

JB98
07-16-2006, 09:46 PM
JB98,

The hitting will ebb and flow during a season. That's just the natural course of the game. What needs to be consistent is pitching, defense, and the execution of the fundamentals; advancing the runner and base running.

Dark cloud? No, just a realist that looks at the performance of this team objectively.

I don't think you're a dark cloud. Hell, I've been banned from this board not once but twice for making negative comments, so I'd be living in a glass house if I were to levy that accusation at you.

BUT, I can recall stretches of last season where pitching, defense and execution of the fundamentals failed us. I assure you there were many, many times where I said, "If we were truly a World Series team, we wouldn't play like this." And you know what? Despite those stretches of inept play, we put it together at the right time and won the whole damn thing.

That doesn't mean we are going to win again this year. Only time will tell. But last year was an educational experience for me as a Sox fan. I learned that even a World Series champion has stretches during a long season where it plays like absolute dog****. The fact that we are playing like dog**** now does not necessarily mean the season is doomed to disappointment.

As I said in my first post in this thread, yeah, we're flawed. So are the Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees and Twins. The key is surviving the long regular season and getting into the playoffs. Once the postseason begins, the marathon becomes a sprint, and whoever gets hot prevails. We've already seen this season that our Sox are capable of getting hot and staying hot for an extended period. Let's just get our asses back in the playoffs, one way or another, then we'll roll the dice.

FarWestChicago
07-16-2006, 09:52 PM
That doesn't mean we are going to win again this year. Only time will tell. But last year was an educational experience for me as a Sox fan. I learned that even a World Series champion has stretches during a long season where it plays like absolute dog****. The fact that we are playing like dog**** now does not necessarily mean the season is doomed to disappointment.:thumbsup:

Grzegorz
07-16-2006, 09:53 PM
Let's just get our asses back in the playoffs, one way or another, then we'll roll the dice.

I am right with you on this one. I am looking for the White Sox to take two of three in Detroit.

FarWestChicago
07-16-2006, 09:54 PM
That post is classic. I like the last sentence where he says that "this team will go down as one of the most disappointing in MLB history". Who says that in July, seriously, we still have like 70 games left.It has ChiSoxBob potential, a complete melt down. It needs to be posted again. Hell, I should stick it. :redneckThis team is a complete joke... they aren't going to make the playoffs... not with this kind of pitching anyways... and even if they do with this pitching, i'd be shocked to win even 1 game... at that point, i'd rather not make it at all.... I've never in my life been more disgusted with a white sox team... even when they were just a .500 club it was easier to swallow because you didn't expect greatness... this team will go down as one of the most disappointing in MLB history

JB98
07-16-2006, 10:04 PM
I am right with you on this one. I am looking for the White Sox to take two of three in Detroit.

That's what I'm hoping for. I feel pretty good about Contreras on Thursday. We need either Garland or Vazquez to step up in one of those first two. I think we have to face Rogers on Thursday, but if we can split the first two games, I have confidence that Jose will deliver the series win.

102605
07-16-2006, 10:37 PM
http://www.extreme-accounting.com/Images/Downloads/full%20screen%20ledge.jpg

tlebar318
07-16-2006, 11:05 PM
Wow,
Just hard to believe the negativity from some right now. We could be on the North Side that just had an 11 run inning including 2 grand salamis against them tonight in the SAME INNING!...I think we will be fine. Relax and look at the overall record..we just need some fine tuning in the pitching staff.....On to Detroit! :cool:

Domeshot17
07-16-2006, 11:11 PM
No, actually you are on the ledge. :D:

haha, in all seriousness, I think this team is playing bad baseball. I think im frusterated because I know this team could be awesome. This may be the best assemblence of Talent we have ever seen in Chicago. However, we arent playing to it. We are not getting the most out of the players this year. And just when something good (brian anderson catching fire) happens, something bad (freddy sucking). Thats why Im saying these 3 with detroit are huge. Im not saying the season is over, but 14 odd days until the trade deadline, its like, **** or get off the pot already. Play like you can, and you want too, or tell Kdubs to deal you. Freddy just has been ticking me off more and more, ever since ring day when he got shelled :tongue: .


I think this team is awesome, However, we need to get 2 of the struggling 3 back on track, and deal the other one. Especially if we could get Pelry from the mets, deal freddy this year, vaz in the offseason, load up with bmac and pelfry in the rotation,would be sick.

rick smeitz
07-16-2006, 11:28 PM
yup yup

cbotnyse
07-16-2006, 11:29 PM
yup yupall of your posts have been yup. :dtroll:

Chips
07-16-2006, 11:31 PM
all of your posts have been yup. :dtroll:

yup yup.

QCIASOXFAN
07-16-2006, 11:38 PM
all of your posts have been yup. :dtroll:His first post was yup you got it yup.

Domeshot17
07-17-2006, 01:26 AM
maybe hes just shy

IlliniSox4Life
07-17-2006, 01:42 AM
maybe hes just shy

he's not shy, he's banned.

Veeck Lives
07-20-2006, 01:28 PM
I think we're all getting a little ahead of ourselves here. As much as I am nervous about our October chances sometimes, I don't think its time to close the book on the season. Right now we are the equivalent of the genious underachiever. We have the team from top to bottom that could be the absolute best in baseball right now. Unfortuantely, they have not found a rhythm; especially with the starters. However, they will find it! We have to believe! Didn't we all (well some of us who don't mind Journey) sing "Don't stop believing.' last year.

Let's stay faithful and know that we could have many more problems than we do.

viagracat
07-20-2006, 01:47 PM
I think we're all getting a little ahead of ourselves here. As much as I am nervous about our October chances sometimes, I don't think its time to close the book on the season. Right now we are the equivalent of the genious underachiever. We have the team from top to bottom that could be the absolute best in baseball right now. Unfortuantely, they have not found a rhythm; especially with the starters. However, they will find it! We have to believe! Didn't we all (well some of us who don't mind Journey) sing "Don't stop believing.' last year.

Let's stay faithful and know that we could have many more problems than we do.

Excellent post!

:welcome:

Veeck Lives
07-21-2006, 10:40 AM
Excellent post!

:welcome:

Thanks viagaracat! I was just trying to help all of us keep our heads up. I know that it is hard lately, but it ain't over til Guillen calls the President queer. :D:

voodoochile
07-21-2006, 11:13 AM
Thanks viagaracat! I was just trying to help all of us keep our heads up. I know that it is hard lately, but it ain't over til Guillen calls the President queer. :D:

You're new. I'll give you one, but please no politics and please don't make the Ozzie un-PC comment joke a regular part of your repetoire.

Thanks.

Veeck Lives
07-23-2006, 03:53 PM
You're new. I'll give you one, but please no politics and please don't make the Ozzie un-PC comment joke a regular part of your repetoire.

Thanks.

It was meant to be funny; guess you didn't find the humor in it. As much as I want to protest and scream 1st Amendment, I won't. I will respect the forum if that is the going agreement with the members. I wasn't trying to make a political statement; I was simply trying to make a humorous exaggeration of Ozzie's 'knows no bounds' press conference statements. My assumption is if I had said 'fat lady sings' you wouldn't have replied.

Lesson learned and duly noted.

voodoochile
07-23-2006, 04:00 PM
It was meant to be funny; guess you didn't find the humor in it. As much as I want to protest and scream 1st Amendment, I won't. I will respect the forum if that is the going agreement with the members. I wasn't trying to make a political statement however and I my assumption is if I had said 'fat lady sings' you wouldn't have replied.

Lesson learned and duly noted.

Thank you.

The First Amendment argument does not apply in this situation. Many have gone to the wall for it here and they are now posting on other forums. Within the rules of the forums, people can talk about almost anything here, but anything bordering on political is instantly shut down.

Probably better not to mention Mr. President at all.

Veeck Lives
07-23-2006, 04:08 PM
Thank you.

The First Amendment argument does not apply in this situation. Many have gone to the wall for it here and they are now posting on other forums. Within the rules of the forums, people can talk about almost anything here, but anything bordering on political is instantly shut down.

Probably better not to mention Mr. President at all.

Fair enough. We are here to talk about our beloved team who is finally going to get a W. And how about Scotty P. with a blast? Awesome!

voodoochile
07-23-2006, 04:13 PM
Fair enough. We are here to talk about our beloved team who is finally going to get a W. And how about Scotty P. with a blast? Awesome!
Awesome indeed and well said. You hit the nail on the head.

Edit: Oh and if you are interested in in-game chat like about Pods HR, there is a chat room and a game thread in the gameday/PTC forum.

Jurr
07-23-2006, 04:15 PM
Awww...the grizzled vet is taking in the newbie. This is a happy moment. :redneck

voodoochile
07-23-2006, 04:19 PM
Awww...the grizzled vet is taking in the newbie. This is a happy moment. :redneck

Indeed. Afterall, the flawed team just had themselves a game.:gulp::)

Veeck Lives
07-24-2006, 09:29 AM
Awesome indeed and well said. You hit the nail on the head.

Edit: Oh and if you are interested in in-game chat like about Pods HR, there is a chat room and a game thread in the gameday/PTC forum.

Thanks for the information and thanks for your patience.

viagracat
07-24-2006, 11:50 AM
Awww...the grizzled vet is taking in the newbie. This is a happy moment. :redneck

Yep, I think this kid has potential. He could be a Jolly Green Giant in a land full of little trolls...:D:

MikeLove
07-24-2006, 01:59 PM
I didn't read this whole thread im just commenting in regards to the first post:

I somewhat agree. It seems like we are more like the 2004 sox than the 2005. Last year we made a step towards speed and better defense and pitching, but then this past offseason tried to get back that offense they lost from Carlos Lee in Jim Thome. Now they look more like the 2004 sox than a better 2005 team. Don't get me wrong, on paper they are very good but for some reason i always get this feeling that like they started to take the team in one direction, then go back in the other direction a little and end up with a team that is very good, but not great.

Tragg
07-24-2006, 05:26 PM
This pitching is not playoff-caliber... Hell,I'd trade Buehrle right now!!!... We will not make the playoffs because, quite frankly, despite what the record currently says.... WE ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE RED SOX, YANKEES OR TIGERS.... First, trading MB right now is a good way to make us worse...trading a player at the bottom of his performance cycle, means you get little in return.
Second, it's ridiculous to say we aren't in the same "class" as the Red Sox, Yankees or Tigers. Just ridiculous. In 2000, we swept the Yankees in a 4 game series in Yankee stadium, outscoring them 42-17. The Yankees won the WS that year, and we were swept in round 1.

Hoffdaddydmb
07-26-2006, 08:20 AM
As one of the whitesox faithful I'm nowhere near the ledge but I think we all need to realize that if this skid doesn't stop soon we're gonna find ourselves trying to crawl out of a big hole come september. It's frustrating to watch because we know Ozzie has tried multiple approaches with no avail. He's tried the "go out there and have fun" routine and screaming at guys like garland to try and get them fired up.

The good news is that detroit lost night too, crede is still playing golden glove caliber baseball, and the talent IS there all around. Last year showed us anything can happen. Sure we're not taking the same route we did last year, but that's damn near inhumanly possible to lead a touch A.L. Central 2 years in a row from start to finish.

Get back from the ledge Sox fans! If just one more starter other than Garland can hit his groove maybe it'll be the spark we need. Go get 'em tonight Mark! :D:

simbro
07-26-2006, 09:30 AM
their main flaw right now is pitching, but more buerhle, javy and garcia. buerhle slumps almost every year for a couple of games. hoepfully he could go out today and get back on track. garcia is going to be up and down, but he is a guy that likes the big game situation and now all these remaining games are going to be big. javy is just javy.

if they win today and then go into baltimore and kc i could see them getting on a streak and righting the ship. with 10 more games against the tigers, anything could happen.