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sox230
07-14-2006, 09:52 PM
I don't care about not letting your bench players get rusty any more. It seems like every game we play there is atleast 2 bench players in ourstarting lineups. For this team to have more chemistry, we need to trot the same lineup out there with all the starters at least 5 games in a row, I don't care if there is a lefty or gighty pitcher. There is a reason they are bench players. Playoff teams have constant lineups where guys know where they are at EVERY DAY. There is a reason bench players are labeled as bench players, they are supposed to play once a week, not three times. Ozzie needs to stop getting too technical and just send out the best players.

BadBobbyJenks
07-14-2006, 09:57 PM
remember how fresh we looked in the postseason last year? But in some situations I agree ozzie needs to cut the matchup bs

TornLabrum
07-14-2006, 10:33 PM
If the tirade above was about Ozzie's lineup tonight, that is his usual lineup against lefties. So yes, he is being consistent.

sox230
07-14-2006, 10:53 PM
And we are a powerful 20-17 with that great lefty lineup.

JB98
07-14-2006, 10:56 PM
And we are a powerful 20-17 with that great lefty lineup.

But you'd have to admit 20-17 is an upgrade. We were below .500 against lefties not too long ago.

MisterB
07-14-2006, 11:20 PM
Playoff teams have constant lineups where guys know where they are at EVERY DAY.

Interesting theory. Let's compare (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/teams/depth-chart/CHW) some potential playoff teams in the AL when it comes to lineup consistency:

White Sox - 42 different lineups/most common used 16 times
Red Sox - 53/9
Rangers - 59/6
Tigers - 69/5
Yankees - 71/4
Athletics - 77/4

So...either the Sox have a better shot in the playoffs (usuing your theory) than the other AL contenders, or your theory is a load of crap. Pick whichever one you prefer...

oeo
07-14-2006, 11:28 PM
Alright...the Sox CANNOT win every game. So...stop trying to whine about every little thing because they lost ONE game.

Stop worrying about the Tigers, stop worrying about lineups, stop worrying about our BACKUP catcher, stop worrying about our rotation...we're going to be fine and that's all you people do is worry, worry, worry.

I thought I was bad when the Sox were losing/do lose...but then I come here after every game and most people are sitting on the ledge.

YOU CANNOT EXPECT THEM TO WIN EVERY GAME...THEY'RE GOING TO WIN SOME, THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE SOME. Be happy when they win, shake it off when they lose. Get a grip, and enjoy the ride, there's still plenty of baseball to be played and this team is going to win this division, I don't care what some of you pessimistic folk think.

TDog
07-14-2006, 11:30 PM
This isn't just an issue of matchups, although that is a consideration.

In Sunday's (I believe) Dallas Morning News, there will be a baseball story about this season being the first in a very long time in which players are not getting by with the use of amphetamines. I don't have a link. I don't believe the story ran today, and I'm not sure when this weekend it will run. But unless I'm confusing it with another city's weekend baseball package, I'm pretty sure it is the Dallas morning news.

The story says players have reported that day games after night games are notoriously difficult on players and games where amphetamines was relied on the most. The result of testing this year has already made for some sloppy play in day games. The conclusion of the story is that the grind of the season will take its toll and teams with the best bench and youngest legs may end up prevailing. (The author suggested players would be well suited to go to bed earlier).

You may choose to believe the Sox players have not been popping greenies. In fact, the current and most recent former Sox manager have given players strategic time off that has displeased many WSI posters. Maybe the managers have seen to it that nothing stronger than coffee or Red Bull was needed by the players.

Widger was the logical choice to start at catcher Friday night, going up against Randy Johnson. In fact, I knew the Sox were looking at a Saturday afternoon game when I saw AJ wasn't in the lineup. AJ probably has a better chance against Mussina, especially if he didn't catch the night before. And catchers commonly don't start day games after night games because of the wear. Leyland rested Rodriguez on the Sunday before the All-Star break, despite off days looming. Likewise, you figure Podsednik has a better chance against Mussina than Johnson, and has a better chance against Mussina if he doesn't start the night before. Considering you still had a .400 hitter leading off for the Sox, he issue was defense, not offense. You are more likely to get offense from Ozuna than Pods against Johnson. It gives Pods some rest and Ozuna some playing time.

The 1969 Cubs put out the same lineup every day -- in an era when, according to Jim Bouton in "Ball Four" amphetamine use among players was rampant. The Cubs still had nothing left by the end of August.

I certainly don't believe it's in the best interests of the Sox to have AJ start against Johnson on Friday night and Mussina on Saturday afternoon.

BadBobbyJenks
07-14-2006, 11:31 PM
Alright...the Sox CANNOT win every game. So...stop trying to whine about every little thing because they lost ONE game.

Stop worrying about the Tigers, stop worrying about lineups, stop worrying about our BACKUP catcher, stop worrying about our rotation...we're going to be fine and that's all you people do is worry, worry, worry.

I thought I was bad when the Sox were losing/do lose...but then I come here after every game and most people are sitting on the ledge.

YOU CANNOT EXPECT THEM TO WIN EVERY GAME...THEY'RE GOING TO WIN SOME, THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE SOME. Be happy when they win, shake it off when they lose. Some people need to get a grip.


sadly no matter how many times you put some of these people up against a wall and shake them it never sinks in.

gosox3072
07-15-2006, 12:27 AM
Ozzie did the same thing last year.....i like how that year ended:cool:

Domeshot17
07-15-2006, 01:14 AM
I tend to agree a somewhat here. I know a big part of this is the greenie thing. Was talkin with my college coach, he has a few guys he is close with in the minors, and his guess ( and yes this is just a guess ) was probably 65% of starting Catchers in baseball were greenie poppers.

Here is what I don't like.

(1) First game after the all star break, would have been nice to get off on a good note, playing the regular guys. I dont think the friday night/sat morning would have had THAT much of an effect with having the week off, even for AJ, who did nothing but do the color work for JD in the home run derby.

(2) I think widger needs to stop playing against lefties, and needs to develop into SOMEONE's catcher. Have Widger work with strictly garland, or vazquez, something to that extent. He seems to be very off this year in his game calling, which is something I was impressed with last year. But I know people post the numbers anytime his name is brought up, so i wont go through it all, but hes been bad this year, or the pitchers just tend to suck when hes catching. I love Widger, I have a soft spot in my heart for the guy, a real scrapper, but he needs to be coaching the bullpen next year, not calling the game.

(3) The Many Adventures of Pablo really, really, really need to come to an end. and we thought Soriano was bad in LF

(4) a Loss is a Loss, and we will lose games in the second half, but these ones are big. The GOOD teams ( BoSox, Yanks) are really exposing our holes, and I hope if Kenny has a move in him or 2, its before the tigers series, because that series has the potential to put us VERY behind in the standings, or right back on the Tiger's heels.

oeo
07-15-2006, 01:28 AM
I tend to agree a somewhat here. I know a big part of this is the greenie thing. Was talkin with my college coach, he has a few guys he is close with in the minors, and his guess ( and yes this is just a guess ) was probably 65% of starting Catchers in baseball were greenie poppers.

Here is what I don't like.

(1) First game after the all star break, would have been nice to get off on a good note, playing the regular guys. I dont think the friday night/sat morning would have had THAT much of an effect with having the week off, even for AJ, who did nothing but do the color work for JD in the home run derby.

(2) I think widger needs to stop playing against lefties, and needs to develop into SOMEONE's catcher. Have Widger work with strictly garland, or vazquez, something to that extent. He seems to be very off this year in his game calling, which is something I was impressed with last year. But I know people post the numbers anytime his name is brought up, so i wont go through it all, but hes been bad this year, or the pitchers just tend to suck when hes catching. I love Widger, I have a soft spot in my heart for the guy, a real scrapper, but he needs to be coaching the bullpen next year, not calling the game.

(3) The Many Adventures of Pablo really, really, really need to come to an end. and we thought Soriano was bad in LF

(4) a Loss is a Loss, and we will lose games in the second half, but these ones are big. The GOOD teams ( BoSox, Yanks) are really exposing our holes, and I hope if Kenny has a move in him or 2, its before the tigers series, because that series has the potential to put us VERY behind in the standings, or right back on the Tiger's heels.
Bloop hits, bad umpiring? That's how the Yankees won, I don't think they exposed any holes. Jose got into trouble early, because the homeplate umpire would not give him a call and he had to throw it right there to get a call (much like Buehrle last week against the Red Sox). And Thornton did not throw 4 balls in that at-bat against Bernie Williams. Two of those were clearly strikes, and that changes the whole game if he doesn't walk there. It was blatantly obvious that Randy Johnson got a much bigger strikezone than Contreras did. Contreras was hitting the corners, didn't get the call...Johnson missed the corner and got the call (not to mention two HIGH strikes to Thome...one that struck him out and another that should have been ball four).

Not to mention, soft singles, bloop doubles...and you lose a game you shouldn't lose. The Yankees didn't play better, they caught the breaks.

To tell you the truth, I'm not worried about the Tigers one bit. The Sox are the better team, and anything short of a sweep, I will be disappointed in. The Royals had a chance to win the first two games, they're going to take at least one of the next two, if not both of them. The Tigers are not as good as their record indicates, I'm telling you.

palehozenychicty
07-15-2006, 01:35 AM
Bloop hits, bad umpiring? That's how the Yankees won, I don't think they exposed any holes. Jose got into trouble early, because the homeplate umpire would not give him a call and he had to throw it right there to get a call (much like Buehrle last week against the Red Sox). And Thornton did not throw 4 balls in that at-bat against Bernie Williams. Two of those were clearly strikes, and that changes the whole game if he doesn't walk there. It was blatantly obvious that Randy Johnson got a much bigger strikezone than Contreras did. Contreras was hitting the corners, didn't get the call...Johnson missed the corner and got the call (not to mention two HIGH strikes to Thome...one that struck him out and another that should have been ball four).

Not to mention, soft singles, bloop doubles...and you lose a game you shouldn't lose. The Yankees didn't play better, they caught the breaks.

To tell you the truth, I'm not worried about the Tigers one bit. The Sox are the better team, and anything short of a sweep, I will be disappointed in. The Royals had a chance to win the first two games, they're going to take at least one of the next two, if not both of them. The Tigers are not as good as their record indicates, I'm telling you.

exactly, the yankees got breaks and got the win. i was standing in the stadium witnessing all the horrible ump calling. nevertheless, we'll get them. they aren't that good at all. in fact, we even had a young crowd chanting "let's go white sox" throughout.

gbacci
07-15-2006, 01:46 AM
Yankees - 71/4
Athletics - 77/4

...

So this means the Yanks and A's have only used their "ideal" lineup 4 times?? That is simply amazing to me. I'm sure injuries play a part, but still...

DSpivack
07-15-2006, 01:51 AM
So this means the Yanks and A's have only used their "ideal" lineup 4 times?? That is simply amazing to me. I'm sure injuries play a part, but still...

Sheffield and Matsui got injured very early on, no? I believe that means that there is not one lineup they have used more than four times, which makes sense given all their injuries. Not sure about Oakland, perhaps injury explains it, perhaps changing their lineup over in order to try and better their mediocre offense.

Domeshot17
07-15-2006, 02:12 AM
Wasnt aware of bad umping. Had the entire game on the radio in the car today, but you know how farmer gets, EVERYTHING is a bad call. I like him, but hes like the boy who cried wolf, He also brought up the reds trade, then thought Adam Dunn got dealt, which was amusing.

Grzegorz
07-15-2006, 05:04 AM
Bloop hits, bad umpiring? That's how the Yankees won, I don't think they exposed any holes. Jose got into trouble early, because the homeplate umpire would not give him a call and he had to throw it right there to get a call (much like Buehrle last week against the Red Sox).

To tell you the truth, I'm not worried about the Tigers one bit. The Sox are the better team, and anything short of a sweep, I will be disappointed in.


Bloop hits count; these loses count too. It's one game, but I would have liked to see a better result from the bullpen.

What evidence is there that the White Sox will sweep the Tigers? Suddenly the variables of bloop hits and bad umpiring disappear? Face it, the Tigers are good and the chances that they drop into the rear view mirror of the AL Central seem low.

I'd play the regular lineup consistently. I'd rest AJ when appropriate and let Crede heal if necessary.

The White Sox have to put their best lineup out on the field as often as the injury situation dictates in the second half.

July 15th 2006 against the Yankees is when the Mark Buehrle of the last couple of years has to show up.

TornLabrum
07-15-2006, 09:11 AM
Here's something for people with short memories to remember: When Jerry Manuel was manager, the number of lineups used by now would be approaching 90.

:jerry

"I love to tinker."

Ol' No. 2
07-15-2006, 09:13 AM
Wasnt aware of bad umping. Had the entire game on the radio in the car today, but you know how farmer gets, EVERYTHING is a bad call. I like him, but hes like the boy who cried wolf, He also brought up the reds trade, then thought Adam Dunn got dealt, which was amusing.The umpiring was horribly biased, and it was noticable within the first few innings. This is becoming more and more common, and the Sox never seem to be on the good side of it.

digdagdug23
07-15-2006, 11:10 AM
Bloop hits count; these loses count too. It's one game, but I would have liked to see a better result from the bullpen.

What evidence is there that the White Sox will sweep the Tigers? Suddenly the variables of bloop hits and bad umpiring disappear? Face it, the Tigers are good and the chances that they drop into the rear view mirror of the AL Central seem low.

I'd play the regular lineup consistently. I'd rest AJ when appropriate and let Crede heal if necessary.

The White Sox have to put their best lineup out on the field as often as the injury situation dictates in the second half.

July 15th 2006 against the Yankees is when the Mark Buehrle of the last couple of years has to show up.


:prozac

You are going to give yourself ulcers. I would say the current record of the Sox/Tigs matchup would be a good indicator of how they play the next time. Not always, but come on, dude, relax a lil. Play the regular lineup consistently, why? We own the second best record in baseball, have a YUGE target on our backs, and are playing some pretty solid baseball. We are not going to win every game, and we can not play our starters 99.999% of the time. Look at who we are playing right now, and for the next 2 weeks. You can not afford to exhaust the entire starting lineup for 2 weeks to prove a point that is moot, at best. We will win more games than we lose, and will determine our own destiny.

If you want to jump, go ahead, I am certainly not going to stop you. But for sobbing out loud, take stock in where we are, and where we are headed, and take a deep, cleansing breath. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

goon
07-15-2006, 11:21 AM
i dont think anyone would notice the lineup changes as a problem if detroit wasnt winning every game they played, or so it seems. although, i would like to see pods in the lineup more, as well as Brian in centerfield. there is nothing worse than watching a weaker defensive team, it drives me crazy.

in addition, it doesnt help that widger is 0 for his last 19 or whatever.

voodoochile
07-15-2006, 11:30 AM
And we are a powerful 20-17 with that great lefty lineup.

And we have a WS championship from last year and the second best record in baseball this year with Ozzie making the decisions. Why are we griping?

Leave well enough alone. Oh and that goes for the pitchers too. Are they throwing every pitch like it's the last out of the WS? No, but they don't need to now either. If FG can get the wins and save his arm for when the games matter, who cares if he is winning every game? Who cares if he is regularly clocking 92 on the gun? A W is a W is a W and right now, the Sox are piling them up at a team record pace. If that isn't good enough for people then they need to take a step back and go follow early football training camps or something and come back in September when their drama will at least be justified...:rolleyes:

markopat
07-15-2006, 11:41 AM
Alright...the Sox CANNOT win every game. So...stop trying to whine about every little thing because they lost ONE game.

Stop worrying about the Tigers, stop worrying about lineups, stop worrying about our BACKUP catcher, stop worrying about our rotation...we're going to be fine and that's all you people do is worry, worry, worry.

I thought I was bad when the Sox were losing/do lose...but then I come here after every game and most people are sitting on the ledge.

YOU CANNOT EXPECT THEM TO WIN EVERY GAME...THEY'RE GOING TO WIN SOME, THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE SOME. Be happy when they win, shake it off when they lose. Get a grip, and enjoy the ride, there's still plenty of baseball to be played and this team is going to win this division, I don't care what some of you pessimistic folk think.

Actually...I am an optimist and spoiled from last year and DO expect them to win every game. But I am also a realist and understand that we will lose 50 or so throughout the season...

I also believe that we can win every game we play until the last out is recorded. I guess this comes from watching this team come back in the bottom of the 9th (or 19th) with 2 outs over and over...I do love this team!

:)

Grzegorz
07-15-2006, 11:55 AM
If you want to jump, go ahead, I am certainly not going to stop you. But for sobbing out loud, take stock in where we are, and where we are headed, and take a deep, cleansing breath. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

No Prozac needed here digdagdug23...

To quote Pike Bishop (William Holden) from 'The Wild Bunch': "When you side with a man, you stay with him. And if you can't do that, you're like some animal, you're finished. We're finished. All of us."

Well I am siding with the White Sox and I am riding on with them.

I am just not Pollyanna...

I can't assume a sweep of the Tigers, I'd like the White Sox to field the best lineup possible from here on out, and I'd like to see the Mark Buehrle of old.

hawkjt
07-15-2006, 12:05 PM
I have not given up for the division but really the job at hand is to beat the yanks ,jays and twins for that wildcard spot. We have a nice 5 game bulge on the yanks so we are in decent position.

I just think that the tigers have ''baseball magic '' this year and will most likely win the division. So what? Getting in the playoffs is what it is all about.

AS for lineups- ozzie knows what he is doing. Manuel did the same thing and got ripped but manuel had injured pitchers so he got blamed. Lucky for ozzie that he has had healthy pitchers so he wins.

Long way to go. Better not to post immediately after losses like last nite. I was pissed but the sun did come up. Could be worse, could be in Lebanon or Iraq or even Afghanistan like my son the soldier. Who is a huge sox fan and is eagerly awaiting coming home and attending every sox game he can.

Go Sox.

voodoochile
07-15-2006, 12:12 PM
I have not given up for the division but really the job at hand is to beat the yanks ,jays and twins for that wildcard spot. We have a nice 5 game bulge on the yanks so we are in decent position.

I just think that the tigers have ''baseball magic '' this year and will most likely win the division. So what? Getting in the playoffs is what it is all about.

AS for lineups- ozzie knows what he is doing. Manuel did the same thing and got ripped but manuel had injured pitchers so he got blamed. Lucky for ozzie that he has had healthy pitchers so he wins.

Long way to go. Better not to post immediately after losses like last nite. I was pissed but the sun did come up. Could be worse, could be in Lebanon or Iraq or even Afghanistan like my son the soldier. Who is a huge sox fan and is eagerly awaiting coming home and attending every sox game he can.

Go Sox.

The difference is that Ozzie doesn't surrender important games against playoff contenders. JM did that all the time in final games of a series. Remember when he ran Neil Cotts out to the mound in NY for the final game of the series in 2003 because "The Sox had already won the series"? :?:

Ozzie doesn't do stupid stuff like that. He may tinker with the lineup, but he is consistent with the pitching staff and he at least has the bench to mess around with and doesn't give players forever to prove they suck 100% before bumping them out of the lineup/rotation. He also doesn't play favorites and tells the players what is expected of them and what the team will do if they succeed/fail - even when those things should be self-evident.

Good luck to your son. Hope the Sox make the playoffs for him and go deep therein so he can watch even more baseball than he ever did under JM...:tongue: