PDA

View Full Version : Interesting Column


Lip Man 1
07-08-2006, 07:01 PM
Interesting Phil Rogers column. Still thinks Kenny is going to do something...still speculates it'll be Andruw Jones.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-060707rogers,1,4890156.column?coll=cs-home-utility

Lip

MERPER
07-08-2006, 07:11 PM
Not sure how much speculation that is.... it's more just a guess.... besides, if ATL isn't looking to part with him then he's not going anywhere.... Also, adding another bat does nothing for the struggling rotation and bullpen....

Lillian
07-08-2006, 07:30 PM
Yes, I read the article this morning, and wondered what everyone here would say. I don't think that this team needs another bat. Moreover, I don't see where we have the surplus of pitching that affords us the luxury of trading one of our starters. Oh sure, it may have looked that way on paper, at the start of the season, but not the way they have pitched this year. I think that we all agree that pitching is the most important ingredient, and we don't seem to have anyone who is really dominating except Contreras and Jenks.
Moreover, we haven't had an injury to any of our starters, except the brief problem that Contreras suffered.
I'm really worried about this staff. If we don't see some improvement in some of our starters, maybe we should be thinking about acquiring pitching help, not trading it.
I'm really tired of Freddy's determination to throw his curve ball early in the count. He gets behind a lot of hitters with his curve ball, and then gets hurt when he has to throw the fast ball 2-0, 2-1 ans 3-1.
Vasquez is a total enigma. He has great stuff, but he makes a lot of mistakes. Some say it's in his head.
Garland is still a long way from his performance level in the first half of last season.
Buehrle has looked awful in his last two starts.
I know that non of this is news, nor particularly insightful, but it is worth contemplating, when it is suggested that we trade some of our purported "surplus pitching" for another bat! Gees, we alread have 3 guys who are on pace to hit over 40 homers. Do we really need another bat?

TheOldRoman
07-08-2006, 07:35 PM
I sure hope Kenny doesn't go after Jones. He is only hitting .274 with a .351 OBP. That may be a lot better than Anderson, but it isn't worth what we will have to give up to get him. We need to use our prospects to pick up pitching, not more hitting. We don't need to go all out to get a guy who will bat 7 or 8.
It will be a horrible trade if KW gives up 2-3 top prospects for a guy we will owe $15 million next year. And he may be great in center, but he has lost a step or two on his way to the buffett.
Pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

Frater Perdurabo
07-08-2006, 08:07 PM
I agree with Roman, Lilllian and MERPER. I'm more inclined to add pitching. And I'm deeppink hoping KW goes for the jugular and overpays, if necessary, to get Dontrelle Willis.

The Marlins may be exceeding everyone's expectations, but there's no way they will qualify for the playoffs this year. I'd give them the choice of any three minor leaguers. If that's not enough, then they can have any four. Or five. For this year, Vazquez seems to pitch well early in games but exhausts himself by the middle innings. Move him to long relief for the rest of this year and go get Willis.

For the future, with all apologies to Buehrle and Contreras, Santana and Liriano are the two best starters in the Central. The Tigers also have a great rotation, and the Indians are pretty good at the top as well. The Sox need to stay one step ahead. Willis sets up the Sox for this year and the future. This offseason, Kenny would be able to trade any two starters (probably Garcia and Vazquez) for virtually anyone he wants (Carl Crawford?) and still have a filthy sick rotation of Buehrle, Contreras, Willis, Garland and McCarthy.

DickAllen72
07-08-2006, 09:17 PM
I agree with Roman, Lilllian and MERPER. I'm more inclined to add pitching. And I'm deeppink hoping KW goes for the jugular and overpays, if necessary, to get Dontrelle Willis.

The Marlins may be exceeding everyone's expectations, but there's no way they will qualify for the playoffs this year. I'd give them the choice of any three minor leaguers. If that's not enough, then they can have any four. Or five. For this year, Vazquez seems to pitch well early in games but exhausts himself by the middle innings. Move him to long relief for the rest of this year and go get Willis.

For the future, with all apologies to Buehrle and Contreras, Santana and Liriano are the two best starters in the Central. The Tigers also have a great rotation, and the Indians are pretty good at the top as well. The Sox need to stay one step ahead. Willis sets up the Sox for this year and the future. This offseason, Kenny would be able to trade any two starters (probably Garcia and Vazquez) for virtually anyone he wants (Carl Crawford?) and still have a filthy sick rotation of Buehrle, Contreras, Willis, Garland and McCarthy.

I'm on board!

caulfield12
07-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Well, the Marlins certainly have enough young arms we could take Willis and a RH reliever as part of the deal.

It would be a patented KW go-for-broke move.

You could also move Vazquez to the bullpen and see if he can get straightened out as a set-up guy, much like many suggested Jose as closer in the past couple of seasons. We know he has the stuff. And I would love to be able to end the McCarthy experiment with him starting again in Charlotte and getting his head screwed on straight again after this week...we don't need two Cliff Polittes on the team, one is enough.

bluestar
07-08-2006, 09:32 PM
...we don't need two Cliff Polittes on the team, one is enough.

One is too many. I'm still puzzled why he is taking up roster space on this team.

Maybe we should try what Boston has done and bring up some of those AAA arms to try in the bullpen. I can't imagine them being any worse than Politte at this point.

And, again, this all points back to the starting rotation problems. If our starters could go more than five or six innings consistently like they did last year, I don't think the bullpen would be in the shape it is in.

jehosaphat
07-08-2006, 09:39 PM
I'm a big fan of Andruw Jones - he can very, very good and I don't think his best baseball is behind him. Getting him has me salivating. A team doesn't have many chances to win it all (lest we forget the 70+ year draught), and Jones could certainly be a difference maker.

With that said, it all is gossip at this point in time. For the right price I'd take Jones, and he will come with a price. But I do agree with others that pitching wins championships and one has to be careful about giving it up. Getting Willis would be great; I'm not sure whose spot he would take this year.

I think the Braves will ask a steep price for Andruw and although Kenny is sometimes portrayed in the media as reckless, I think he is aggressive but shrewed, and he won't strike a "Steinbrenneresque" type of short sited deal.

FedEx227
07-08-2006, 09:57 PM
I'm a big fan of Andruw Jones - he can very, very good and I don't think his best baseball is behind him. Getting him has me salivating. A team doesn't have many chances to win it all (lest we forget the 70+ year draught), and Jones could certainly be a difference maker.

Let's see... we've scored the most runs in the league.

So clearly what we need is more bats... give me a break. Can Andruw pitch? It's pretty obvious our bullpen is the number one area of concern. Also, you can never have enough pitching depth. Getting Andruw Jones at this point is absolutely pointless. Come playoff baseball time the teams that rely to heavily on offense will go by the wayside while the dominating pitching staffs with reign supreme.

DickAllen72
07-08-2006, 10:00 PM
Come playoff baseball time the teams that rely to heavily on offense will go by the wayside while the dominating pitching staffs with reign supreme.

That's what scares me about the 2006 White Sox so far.

Lip Man 1
07-08-2006, 10:01 PM
Dontrelle isn't going anywhere. Marlins insist they are going to build around him and Cabrera.

Lillian...it's become painfully obvious that Garland, Politte and Cotts had fluke 'career' years last season so I'd agree with you, they need help pitching-wise. They aren't going to get a starter because that's not their biggest need. Another relief guy or even two if they want to carry 12 pitchers down the stretch is a bigger need right now and there is a much better chance they can land a deal for that instead of a starter.

Lip

infohawk
07-08-2006, 11:06 PM
I agree with Roman, Lilllian and MERPER. I'm more inclined to add pitching. And I'm deeppink hoping KW goes for the jugular and overpays, if necessary, to get Dontrelle Willis.

The Marlins may be exceeding everyone's expectations, but there's no way they will qualify for the playoffs this year. I'd give them the choice of any three minor leaguers. If that's not enough, then they can have any four. Or five. For this year, Vazquez seems to pitch well early in games but exhausts himself by the middle innings. Move him to long relief for the rest of this year and go get Willis.

For the future, with all apologies to Buehrle and Contreras, Santana and Liriano are the two best starters in the Central. The Tigers also have a great rotation, and the Indians are pretty good at the top as well. The Sox need to stay one step ahead. Willis sets up the Sox for this year and the future. This offseason, Kenny would be able to trade any two starters (probably Garcia and Vazquez) for virtually anyone he wants (Carl Crawford?) and still have a filthy sick rotation of Buehrle, Contreras, Willis, Garland and McCarthy. It's funny you mention this Frater, because I was thinking the exact same thing earlier today. I really believe that Kenny is going to upgrade the rotation. Everyone's talking about centerfield, shortstop (until Uribe started hitting) and the bullpen. We are scoring plenty of runs and don't need an offensive upgrade. I really believe that KW is going to do something very, very aggressive like going after a dominant starter -- helping the Sox this year by beefing up the rotation, sliding one of the starters to the pen and allowing him to move perhaps two starters in offseason trades for what could be a boatload of young talent that would at least offset (maybe exceed) the minor league players Kenny would have to trade to get the starter. Willis was the first starter that came to my mind.

I just have a gut feeling that KW is going to make a move or two that will make people say, "WHOA!"

infohawk
07-08-2006, 11:12 PM
Dontrelle isn't going anywhere. Marlins insist they are going to build around him and Cabrera.
Lip
I don't know if you can really take the Marlins at their word on Willis. It may be true, but their front office knows that the best way to maximize a trade is to play hard to get.

Brian26
07-08-2006, 11:36 PM
I didn't know Rowand was part of that supposed Griffey Trade last year. Wow.

TheOldRoman
07-09-2006, 04:02 AM
I didn't know Rowand was part of that supposed Griffey Trade last year. Wow.
He wasn't. The Trib gets it wrong again.

BTW, Lip, you really soiled yourself today. Cut your losses. Don't even try to clean your underwear, just throw them out. You continue to have a Shoota-esque obsession with Cotts. Today broke a streak of him having 11 straight scoreless appearences. Last year, he was good in the first half and lights out in the second half. He had a 2.86 ERA in the first half last year, and his current ERA is 3.09. Just horrible! Cotts hasn't found his groove yet this year, but he has been very good. Give it up already.

Ol' No. 2
07-09-2006, 10:11 AM
He wasn't. The Trib gets it wrong again.

BTW, Lip, you really soiled yourself today. Cut your losses. Don't even try to clean your underwear, just throw them out. You continue to have a Shoota-esque obsession with Cotts. Today broke a streak of him having 11 straight scoreless appearences. Last year, he was good in the first half and lights out in the second half. He had a 2.86 ERA in the first half last year, and his current ERA is 3.09. Just horrible! Cotts hasn't found his groove yet this year, but he has been very good. Give it up already.Maybe we can still get Jeff Nelson back. That bum Thornton has to go, too.

FarWestChicago
07-09-2006, 10:19 AM
BTW, Lip, you really soiled yourself today. Cut your losses. Don't even try to clean your underwear, just throw them out. You continue to have a Shoota-esque obsession with Cotts. Today broke a streak of him having 11 straight scoreless appearences. Last year, he was good in the first half and lights out in the second half. He had a 2.86 ERA in the first half last year, and his current ERA is 3.09. Just horrible! Cotts hasn't found his groove yet this year, but he has been very good. Give it up already.Excellent post!! :thumbsup:

Brian26
07-09-2006, 10:52 AM
He wasn't. The Trib gets it wrong again.

Rogers is generally pretty good, so I give him the benefit of the doubt usually- but I knew I hadn't heard that Rowand rumor before.

Ol' No. 2
07-09-2006, 11:01 AM
Rogers is generally pretty good, so I give him the benefit of the doubt usually- but I knew I hadn't heard that Rowand rumor before.Didn't he write basically the same column last year with Griffey as the target instead of Jones? Pfft.

Jjav829
07-09-2006, 12:48 PM
I think Kenny will at least make a call to see what it would take to get Andruw, but I doubt he will be coming here. I'm not sure the Braves will trade Andruw, but if they do, it's going to take most of our farm system to get him. The thought of having Andruw on our team has me almost drooling, but the price is probably too high.

I'd rather see Kenny focus on getting pitching. I don't know how KW would make it happen, but if Dontrelle is available, I'd love to see him in a Sox uniform.

Jurr
07-09-2006, 01:16 PM
I think Kenny will at least make a call to see what it would take to get Andruw, but I doubt he will be coming here. I'm not sure the Braves will trade Andruw, but if they do, it's going to take most of our farm system to get him. The thought of having Andruw on our team has me almost drueling, but the price is probably too high.

I'd rather see Kenny focus on getting pitching. I don't know how KW would make it happen, but if Dontrelle is available, I'd love to see him in a Sox uniform.
No way Dontrelle Willis is available. The Marlins are playing competitive baseball (for a NL team) and have a pretty good nucleus of talent (Hermida, Uggla, Willingham, etc.). They need a face to sell tickets, and that would be the Train.

batmanZoSo
07-09-2006, 01:45 PM
I think Kenny will at least make a call to see what it would take to get Andruw, but I doubt he will be coming here. I'm not sure the Braves will trade Andruw, but if they do, it's going to take most of our farm system to get him. The thought of having Andruw on our team has me almost drueling, but the price is probably too high.

I'd rather see Kenny focus on getting pitching. I don't know how KW would make it happen, but if Dontrelle is available, I'd love to see him in a Sox uniform.

Where's he gonna play?

I say nay on Jones, it's just not a pressing need for us. We get along fine without big production from center field and it's only a marginal defensive upgrade, not to mentioin a hustle downgrade. I never liked Jones's attitude and work ethic. He seems to make highlights every year missing a routine ball because of hotdogging it. I say this in assumption that it would cost the proverbial arm and a leg to get him here. If a reasonable deal came along and KW just decided to give up on Anderson, then well I wouldn't complain..

As for Willis, God yes. Not only for the talent, but the bonus is he's so popular around the country that he'd do a lot for this franchise which is already getting more respected every day.

TaylorStSox
07-09-2006, 01:50 PM
I have $100 that says Willis will be traded. Personally, I'd pass. IMO, he has "flash in the pan" lefty with a funky motion written all over him.

Beautox
07-09-2006, 01:54 PM
I have $100 that says Willis will be traded. Personally, I'd pass. IMO, he has "flash in the pan" lefty with a funky motion written all over him.

hahah a "flash in the pan" classic. You realize hes only 24 years old right? and as of late hes turned his whole season around, hes an ace pure and simple the guy pitches over 200IP every year, and hes pretty decent with a bat. Hes not going to be traded.

TaylorStSox
07-09-2006, 02:01 PM
hahah a "flash in the pan" classic. You realize hes only 24 years old right? and as of late hes turned his whole season around, hes an ace pure and simple the guy pitches over 200IP every year, and hes pretty decent with a bat. Hes not going to be traded.

He's pitched 200 innings once. He's decent with the bat? Who really gives a ****. "Flash in the pan" was wrong because he has been around for a while. But, he'll get roasted in the AL. His WHIP is too high, even when he's been good. Really, when you look at his numbers, he was good in 03. He wasn't so good in 04. He was really good in 05. He's been mediocre this year.

He will be traded. The Marlins don't give a **** about ticket sales. They don't want to pay him.

MRM
07-09-2006, 03:11 PM
Let's see... we've scored the most runs in the league.

So clearly what we need is more bats... give me a break. Can Andruw pitch? It's pretty obvious our bullpen is the number one area of concern. Also, you can never have enough pitching depth. Getting Andruw Jones at this point is absolutely pointless. Come playoff baseball time the teams that rely to heavily on offense will go by the wayside while the dominating pitching staffs with reign supreme.

Why is it an either/or situation? Did baseball institute some rule that says you can only make one trade during the season? :D:

Forget starting pitchers, the Sox are not going to be looking for a starter at this point. Despite all the complaints about Vaquez and his struggles, starting pitching is still the strength of the organization. McCarthy would be starting on virtually any other team in baseball and the Sox have some very good arms on the farm not too far away. I'd love to have Willis as much as anyone...it just isn't going to happen.

The Sox, like almost every other contender, will be looking for middle relief. It would not surprise me in the least if they snagged a center fielder as well. If you're gonna get one, Jones sounds as good as any to me. If he's available for a reasonable price you can't just say "no thanks, we have enough offense".

StatHead21
07-09-2006, 04:31 PM
Willis is overrated, Crawford hasn't played enough CF, Andruw Jones would be perfect.

Podsednik
Iguchi
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Jones
Pierzynski
Crede
Uribe

Sick.

Not to mention he'd bring about 9 Gold Gloves, well earned Gold Gloves too.

Frater Perdurabo
07-09-2006, 10:14 PM
Willis is overrated, Crawford hasn't played enough CF, Andruw Jones would be perfect.

Podsednik
Iguchi
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Jones
Pierzynski
Crede
Uribe

Sick.

Not to mention he'd bring about 9 Gold Gloves, well earned Gold Gloves too.

Past Gold Gloves are no guarantee of great defense in the future. Anderson is better defensively than Jones right now. Under my admittedly deeppink scenario of giving up the farm for Willis, Vazquez and Garcia could be used after this season to acquire (in a multi-team deal) Crawford and prospects. Crawford would supplant Pods as the starting LF and leadoff hitter, with Anderson being the primary CF. Pods could be kept as the fourth OF (which the Sox do not have right now; Mackowiak and Ozuna are infielders by trade) and pinch runner, getting close to full-time at-bats by starting four games per week (Dye gets one off day per week, Anderson gets two, Crawford gets one) in left (when Dye rests, Crawford plays right).