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aryzner
07-07-2006, 04:11 PM
What do you guys think of Javier's pitching performance last night?

To me it was a bit better than his last few outings and overall positive. I know he gave up 3 in the 3rd inning, but when they got to the 4th and 5th, I noticed Javy actually started getting ahead of the hitters.. 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 counts, etc. I wish the guy could do that in every inning, I think he'd have a much lower ERA if that happened..

Ol' No. 2
07-07-2006, 04:17 PM
What do you guys think of Javier's pitching performance last night?

To me it was a bit better than his last few outings and overall positive. I know he gave up 3 in the 3rd inning, but when they got to the 4th and 5th, I noticed Javy actually started getting ahead of the hitters.. 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 counts, etc. I wish the guy could do that in every inning, I think he'd have a much lower ERA if that happened..Same old same old. The guy has five pitches he can throw for strikes. Why the hell doesn't he?

INSox56
07-07-2006, 04:24 PM
Yeah it didn't seem like he was throwing anything but maybe three pitches...slider fastball change(?). I don't remember seeing that huge hook of his in many/any of his starts lately. But as was stated, it was a good game except for that ONE inning. He's almost as bad/worse than the Garland of old, his one or two innings per game are really really bad this year.

itsnotrequired
07-07-2006, 04:26 PM
Same old same old. The guy has five pitches he can throw for strikes. Why the hell doesn't he?

I hear he's trying to build up his pitch count.:redneck

Xx i am error xX
07-07-2006, 04:26 PM
It wasn't an awful performance, but it was against the O's who were featuring Jeff Conine at cleanup. If that outing was against a good lineup I would have been happy with it. Alex's error didn't help him much, but he's gotta be able to pitch through situations like that. He's still our #5, and for that I'm happy. I guess.

QCIASOXFAN
07-07-2006, 04:28 PM
Same old same old. The guy has five pitches he can throw for strikes. Why the hell doesn't he? That is exactly what I was thinking, and all of them are filthy! I hope he goes off during the break and watches video and figures out how to get all his nasty stuff back in order.

INSox56
07-07-2006, 04:29 PM
He's still our #5, and for that I'm happy. I guess.

Our #5...making 11.5 million...

PAPChiSox729
07-07-2006, 04:37 PM
I was at the game and was frustrated that he was falling behind a lot of hitters. It wasn't awful or stellar... just very mediocre. Luckily the offense bailed him out.

itsnotrequired
07-07-2006, 04:39 PM
Our #5...making 11.5 million...

At least the Sox aren't on the hook for all of that.

wilburaga
07-07-2006, 04:40 PM
For all his rep as an innings eater, Javy hasn't given us 7 complete innings since May 18th (9 starts).

W

aryzner
07-07-2006, 04:40 PM
I was at the game and was frustrated that he was falling behind a lot of hitters. It wasn't awful or stellar... just very mediocre. Luckily the offense bailed him out.Yeah I also get frustrated when he falls behind so often. I will admit that watching on TV last night, some of the times he fell behind, it looked like there were some real close pitches that could've been called for strikes, but still...

He looks like (and Hawk and DJ mention it sometimes) he gets really, really frustrated when he doesn't get those close calls, and that seems to contribute to him pitching worse as the inning and game drags on.

Hitmen77
07-07-2006, 04:58 PM
Our #5...making 11.5 million...
At least the Sox aren't on the hook for all of that.

Yeah, but he cost us El Duque AND Vizcaino AND top CF prospect Chris Young. That's a hefty price to pay for someone who can't make it past the 5th inning.

Would we be any worse off right now with McCarthy in our rotation and Vizcaino in our bullpen?

Vazquez had some great outings earlier in the year. I hope he can get back to pitching up to his talent again soon. Paging Dr. Cooper, paging Dr. Cooper, can you work your magic on another patient?

DickAllen72
07-07-2006, 05:03 PM
What do you guys think of Javier's pitching performance last night?

To me it was a bit better than his last few outings and overall positive. I know he gave up 3 in the 3rd inning, but when they got to the 4th and 5th, I noticed Javy actually started getting ahead of the hitters.. 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 counts, etc. I wish the guy could do that in every inning, I think he'd have a much lower ERA if that happened..

Is it too much to ask to get at least six quality innings out of this guy?

Vazquez sucks.

.....And he's no Jose Contreras.

Mohoney
07-07-2006, 05:04 PM
I don't know if I'm just a victim of the World Series kool-aid, but I can't bring myself to complain about a guy that has lost only 4 of 17 starts.

DickAllen72
07-07-2006, 05:05 PM
Yeah, but he cost us El Duque AND Vizcaino AND top CF prospect Chris Young. That's a hefty price to pay for someone who can't make it past the 5th inning.

Would we be any worse off right now with McCarthy in our rotation and Vizcaino in our bullpen?


Not only that, but without Young we have no one else in the entire Sox organization that can play a good centerfield other than Anderson.

sullythered
07-07-2006, 05:08 PM
Is it too much to ask to get at least six quality innings out of this guy?

Vazquez sucks.

.....And he's no Jose Contreras.
Jose sucked for a year with us before he got good. Jose also never showed ANYTHING beyond potential at the major league level before he turned it around. Javy has. The odds are better that Javy Vazquez will have success with us than they were that Jose Contreras would. He's also a better in the second half than he is in the first, historically.

DickAllen72
07-07-2006, 05:17 PM
Jose sucked for a year with us before he got good. Jose also never showed ANYTHING beyond potential at the major league level before he turned it around. Javy has. The odds are better that Javy Vazquez will have success with us than they were that Jose Contreras would. He's also a better in the second half than he is in the first, historically.


Contreras was a stud in Cuba, left his family behind to come here and needed time to adjust. Even when he was struggling I could see his potential and I always liked him. And he showed a lot more than just potential at the MajorLeague level before. Look at his W/L.

Vazquez had a few good years in the NL and has bounced around and sucked the past few years. He wanted out of Arizona because it was too far from Puerto Rico, from where his family could visit him anytime they wished and he could freely go to anytime in the offseason.

And I doubt that Jose Contreras would stand around and let his catcher be drilled twice and not even pitch on the inside part of the plate let alone brush the opposition back on a night when they are leaning across the plate hammering everything he throws.

Javy Vazquez is no Jose Contreras.

Soxfanspcu11
07-07-2006, 05:29 PM
My oh my what short memories people have. Javy has been off his game the last few starts, but early in the season he was arguably are best pitcher.

He almost threw a no-hitter......TWICE. Granted the competition wasn't all that hot, but it is incredibly difficult to no-hit a major league team (no jokes please about how KC isin't a major league team:tongue: ).

Anyway, he has struggled lately, but he is WINNING games. Granted he is "just barely" winning them, they are still wins. He keeps the Sox in games and everyone knows that the Sox have the offense to win any game.

Last night is a perfect example, Javy spots Baltimore 3, but keeps the Sox in the game, then one 447foot homerun latter, and the Sox have a 5-3 lead.

And like other people have said in this thread, he is our 5th starter. Our 5th starter who is 9-4! That's pretty good to me. How many teams out there have their ace or 2 pitcher with that record??

Also keep in mind, that we didn't lose much for him. El Duque has been throwing well in New York, but only the last few starts, and he likely will be injured about 8 times before the season is over.

Javy is a great starter. People need to stop remembering a pitchers last 5 starts, and remember the 5 before, or the first 5. Baseball is ebbs and flows, quit panicking.

GoSox2K3
07-07-2006, 05:49 PM
My oh my what short memories people have. Javy has been off his game the last few starts, but early in the season he was arguably are best pitcher.

He almost threw a no-hitter......TWICE. Granted the competition wasn't all that hot, but it is incredibly difficult to no-hit a major league team (no jokes please about how KC isin't a major league team:tongue: ).

Anyway, he has struggled lately, but he is WINNING games. Granted he is "just barely" winning them, they are still wins. He keeps the Sox in games and everyone knows that the Sox have the offense to win any game.

Last night is a perfect example, Javy spots Baltimore 3, but keeps the Sox in the game, then one 447foot homerun latter, and the Sox have a 5-3 lead.

And like other people have said in this thread, he is our 5th starter. Our 5th starter who is 9-4! That's pretty good to me. How many teams out there have their ace or 2 pitcher with that record??

Also keep in mind, that we didn't lose much for him. El Duque has been throwing well in New York, but only the last few starts, and he likely will be injured about 8 times before the season is over.

Javy is a great starter. People need to stop remembering a pitchers last 5 starts, and remember the 5 before, or the first 5. Baseball is ebbs and flows, quit panicking.

I'm glad to hear that KW was able to rework this trade so that we only gave up El Duque.

Soxfanspcu11
07-07-2006, 09:47 PM
I'm glad to hear that KW was able to rework this trade so that we only gave up El Duque.


:?: Why is this is teal?? Oh so sorry, I forgot Viz. :rolleyes: Seriously, what's your point here?

spiffie
07-07-2006, 10:10 PM
:?: Why is this is teal?? Oh so sorry, I forgot Viz. :rolleyes: Seriously, what's your point here?
Yeah, Viz, a guy who was pretty damn solid for the last 4 months of the season. And our best OF prospect in the organization. For a guy who likely is giving us nothing better than McCarthy could give us from that spot.

I keep hoping Vazquez will turn it on and be worth this trade, but right now if I could go back in time I think I tell the D-Backs thanks, but no thanks.

Hitmen77
07-07-2006, 10:20 PM
Yeah, Viz, a guy who was pretty damn solid for the last 4 months of the season. And our best OF prospect in the organization. For a guy who likely is giving us nothing better than McCarthy could give us from that spot.

I keep hoping Vazquez will turn it on and be worth this trade, but right now if I could go back in time I think I tell the D-Backs thanks, but no thanks.

I agree. Right now, Vazquez is struggling and McCarthy hasn't adjusted well to the bullpen. I think we'd be better off right now with McCarthy as our 5th starter and Viz back in the pen. Plus we'd still have our top CF prospect. Plus El Duque or whoever we could have acquired straight-up for him in some other trade.

I'm not saying this deal was a certain bust. There's still the potential for Vazquez to turn it around in the 2nd half and make this a great trade. But right now, it's not looking good.

Soxfanspcu11
07-07-2006, 10:26 PM
Yeah, Viz, a guy who was pretty damn solid for the last 4 months of the season. And our best OF prospect in the organization. For a guy who likely is giving us nothing better than McCarthy could give us from that spot.

I keep hoping Vazquez will turn it on and be worth this trade, but right now if I could go back in time I think I tell the D-Backs thanks, but no thanks.

You do have a point, I forgot about the prospect. However, I still think the trade is/was a good thing. A couple bad starts and everyone gets down on Vazquez.

Also, I admit that Viz was slightly good during the second half last season, but we have a guy now in Riskie that's even better than Viz, so we didn't "lose" on that side. The only part where we got the raw deal was with our prospect, IMHO. And as far as that goes, ask flubs fans how "prospects" work out.

IA_soxfan
07-08-2006, 04:22 AM
I agree. Right now, Vazquez is struggling and McCarthy hasn't adjusted well to the bullpen. I think we'd be better off right now with McCarthy as our 5th starter and Viz back in the pen. Plus we'd still have our top CF prospect. Plus El Duque or whoever we could have acquired straight-up for him in some other trade.

I'm not saying this deal was a certain bust. There's still the potential for Vazquez to turn it around in the 2nd half and make this a great trade. But right now, it's not looking good.

I don't know why everybody thinks McCarthy is our lord and savior if he were to take Javier's place in the rotation. He may have good stuff, but relatively speaking, McCarthy hasn't shown jack as an MLB starter compared to Vazquez. Even if Vazquez continues to pitch for the rest of the year the way he has for his past 6 starts, having him in our starting five is still much MUCH better than having McCarthy, who is a question mark at this point in regards to being a starter. Worst case scenario, Vazquez bolsters our BP in October for another championship run.