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getonbckthr
07-05-2006, 10:42 PM
Is really bad. How the hell is this guy still the closer?

FarWestChicago
07-05-2006, 10:43 PM
And you care why? :?:

getonbckthr
07-05-2006, 10:47 PM
And you care why? :?:
Just a discussion about a guy who obviously has been givin the wrong job. Whats wrong with talking about another teams closer or lack there of?

LuvSox
07-05-2006, 10:50 PM
He got it done tonight

FarWestChicago
07-05-2006, 10:50 PM
Just a discussion about a guy who obviously has been givin the wrong job. Whats wrong with talking about another teams closer or lack there of?Nice dance around the Flubsession. :redneck

QCIASOXFAN
07-05-2006, 11:05 PM
He got it done tonightBarely, he sucks pretty bad this year though. All the Flubs fans I know can't stand the guy. He's starting to remind me of the great Billy Koch.

santo=dorf
07-05-2006, 11:14 PM
Barely, he sucks pretty bad this year though. All the Flubs fans I know can't stand the guy. He's starting to remind me of the great Billy Koch.
In fairness to Koch, Billy was never a horse**** starting pitcher.

SOecks
07-05-2006, 11:19 PM
In fairness to Koch, Billy was never a horse**** starting pitcher.

And as we found out recently, Dempster didn't have to deal with the strange and painful disease that Billy did during his time here.

getonbckthr
07-05-2006, 11:20 PM
Barely, he sucks pretty bad this year though. All the Flubs fans I know can't stand the guy. He's starting to remind me of the great Billy Koch.
Koch ended up having a serious (I believe he still does) yet unknown health condition he should be given a pass.

Tragg
07-05-2006, 11:32 PM
He got 2 big outs tonight (also had some hard hit balls) to get the save after 1st and 3rd and 1 out.
He's an okay guy for #4 or 5 out of the pen.
I remember he was supposed to be some stud young starter...maybe 5 years or so ago.

LuvSox
07-05-2006, 11:44 PM
And as we found out recently, Dempster didn't have to deal with the strange and painful disease that Billy did during his time here.

From what I've heard it is psychological.

TDog
07-06-2006, 05:31 AM
Dempster had some initial success closing, despite being just an average reliever. That happens a lot, and not just to the Cubs, although Joe Borowski (I think that was his name) did pretty much the same thing for that Chicago team. Dempster reminds me more of Matt Karchner than Billy Koch. Rocky Biddle went from to the Expos to be their closer and did a pretty good job the first year. The pattern has been going on as long as there have been closers. Bart Johnson looked great closing games for the Sox during one season in the 1970s.

I'm not talking about the guys who lose it in a hurry after a few years of success, although that happens too. There are probably more one-year- or half-year-wonders at closer than there are in any specialty in baseball. It's part of the reason "experts" were skeptical about the Sox and Bobby Jenks coming into this season.

You have to wonder why the Cubs keep sending Dempster out there.

Ol' No. 2
07-06-2006, 09:55 AM
Dempster had some initial success closing, despite being just an average reliever. That happens a lot, and not just to the Cubs, although Joe Borowski (I think that was his name) did pretty much the same thing for that Chicago team. Dempster reminds me more of Matt Karchner than Billy Koch. Rocky Biddle went from to the Expos to be their closer and did a pretty good job the first year. The pattern has been going on as long as there have been closers. Bart Johnson looked great closing games for the Sox during one season in the 1970s.

I'm not talking about the guys who lose it in a hurry after a few years of success, although that happens too. There are probably more one-year- or half-year-wonders at closer than there are in any specialty in baseball. It's part of the reason "experts" were skeptical about the Sox and Bobby Jenks coming into this season.

You have to wonder why the Cubs keep sending Dempster out there.Who's the alternative?

SOecks
07-06-2006, 10:35 AM
Who's the alternative?

They could always make a deal and bring LaTroy Hawkins back over from the Orioles :cool:.

FedEx227
07-06-2006, 11:41 AM
They could always make a deal and bring LaTroy Hawkins back over from the Orioles :cool:.

Who else razzed the nearest Cub fan and/or laughed when LaTroy came in to pitch last night?

TDog
07-06-2006, 11:43 AM
Who's the alternative?

Kerry Wood might be an alternative if he could, well, pitch. Hanging on to the idea of Wood as a starter is more laughable than hanging onto Ryan Dempster as a closer. But closers don't strike out 20 in a game, so what good is Wood as a closer?

Bob Howry would almost certainly be a better closer than Dempster, and Howry has experience in the role, although it hasn't all been positive. Someone like Rich Hill might have even more success as the team's closer.

Really, though, if I were managing a team where the closer had become a 50-50 shot at protecting a ninth inning lead, I would either find another closer or close with the best matchup from the bullpen on a given day, which is really old-school thinking. The season the Bobby Thigpen set the record with 57 saves, an ESPN analyst said he wasn't that impressed because his percentage of saves was no better than teams that were spreading their ninth-inning save opportunities among two or more pitchers.

Current baseball thinking is that a team has to have a designated closer. (I would rather have a 1972 Forster and Gossage closing for me than a Yankees-era Gossage.) You can tell if a team has a bad manager if he holds to the single-closer thinking even when it isn't working.

PatK
07-06-2006, 11:53 AM
Rich Hill has to prove he can pitch in the majors before trying to be a closer.

Wood? The guy is notorious for struggling with his command early- not an ideal closer.

Dempster is just another pitcher that possesses the one thing that Cubs seem to prize- potential. Unfortunately, like most of those tagged with potential, you need to realize that after 8 years in the bigs, if your guy hasn't reached that potential, they probably are never going to.

Look at his career stats- they aren't that great.

Ol' No. 2
07-06-2006, 11:55 AM
Kerry Wood might be an alternative if he could, well, pitch. Hanging on to the idea of Wood as a starter is more laughable than hanging onto Ryan Dempster as a closer. But closers don't strike out 20 in a game, so what good is Wood as a closer?

Bob Howry would almost certainly be a better closer than Dempster, and Howry has experience in the role, although it hasn't all been positive. Someone like Rich Hill might have even more success as the team's closer.

Really, though, if I were managing a team where the closer had become a 50-50 shot at protecting a ninth inning lead, I would either find another closer or close with the best matchup from the bullpen on a given day, which is really old-school thinking. The season the Bobby Thigpen set the record with 57 saves, an ESPN analyst said he wasn't that impressed because his percentage of saves was no better than teams that were spreading their ninth-inning save opportunities among two or more pitchers.

Current baseball thinking is that a team has to have a designated closer. (I would rather have a 1972 Forster and Gossage closing for me than a Yankees-era Gossage.) You can tell if a team has a bad manager if he holds to the single-closer thinking even when it isn't working.This problem more accurately reflects Dusty's incompetance than anything else. Any manager worth a bucket of warm spit would see that Dumpster isn't getting the job done and make some kind of change. Dusty just keeps sending him out there and hoping for the best, just as he does with the rest of the team. The guy is just amazingly clueless.

soxfan13
07-06-2006, 11:59 AM
Kerry Wood might be an alternative if he could, well, pitch. Hanging on to the idea of Wood as a starter is more laughable than hanging onto Ryan Dempster as a closer. But closers don't strike out 20 in a game, so what good is Wood as a closer?

Bob Howry would almost certainly be a better closer than Dempster, and Howry has experience in the role, although it hasn't all been positive. Someone like Rich Hill might have even more success as the team's closer.

Really, though, if I were managing a team where the closer had become a 50-50 shot at protecting a ninth inning lead, I would either find another closer or close with the best matchup from the bullpen on a given day, which is really old-school thinking. The season the Bobby Thigpen set the record with 57 saves, an ESPN analyst said he wasn't that impressed because his percentage of saves was no better than teams that were spreading their ninth-inning save opportunities among two or more pitchers.

Current baseball thinking is that a team has to have a designated closer. (I would rather have a 1972 Forster and Gossage closing for me than a Yankees-era Gossage.) You can tell if a team has a bad manager if he holds to the single-closer thinking even when it isn't working.

Didnt the White Sox get rid of Howry because of his lack of closer mentality?

Ol' No. 2
07-06-2006, 12:04 PM
Didnt the White Sox get rid of Howry because of his lack of closer mentality?No. He was their closer in 1999 and didn't to that badly, although Foulke was a lot better and won the closer role in 2000. Howry moved to setup and was pretty effective that year. Then he had arm problems in 2001 and was never really the same until re-surfacing with the Indians in 2004.

TDog
07-07-2006, 01:49 AM
This problem more accurately reflects Dusty's incompetance than anything else. Any manager worth a bucket of warm spit would see that Dumpster isn't getting the job done and make some kind of change. Dusty just keeps sending him out there and hoping for the best, just as he does with the rest of the team. The guy is just amazingly clueless.

It surprises me every time I see Dempster come into a game in the ninth inning. It shouldn't, but it does.

FarWestChicago
07-07-2006, 10:54 PM
It surprises me every time I see Dempster come into a game in the ninth inning. It shouldn't, but it does.And why are you watching all of these Flubs games? :?:

:crossdresser

TDog
07-08-2006, 12:31 PM
And why are you watching all of these Flubs games?

I'm not watching Cubs games. I haven't been able to watch a Sox game since July 4, 2003. But I do look at baseball box scores and read the game capsules of teams whose results I don't follow.